User Comments

katp May 12, 2021

@cat So true! Fantastic examples of trails blazed so that now we'd be asking *why* someone has 13 kids or *how* and *where* they got smallpox.


Still a long way off it being run-of-the-mill normal to have no kids ;) 

Plenty of article fodder between now and then.

katp May 12, 2021

@mamamia-user-826403796 I think there is also an understandable reluctance to write stories that place First nations people in a poor light, especially when it comes to family violence.

katp May 11, 2021

@cat in the sweep of human history, it is normal to have children. No presupposition about it.  A change to a long established norm will simply take a while. Any trailblazer will tell you that blazing the trail is hard. That's why they get a special name, cowboy boots and kudos down the track (once people see how hard it was!)

katp May 6, 2021

@cat That was just an example, we don't need to debate the merits of upbringings. If you genuinely see no difference between a snack on the hand and a beating then I don't think there is anything I can type to convince you otherwise. We actually draw "artificial" lines all the time and then test them in court. 


My actual point was that I thought too many dots don't connect in this article. Including Sweden was an interesting move since it is known for gender equality. Especially given that gender equality is often raised as a way to combat DV and that DV is often not physical. 

katp May 5, 2021

@cat I know. But if we assume that violence is gender-based, I think there are some missing dots. The more I think about it, the bigger the missing dots.

I was smacked as a small child for dangerous behaviour (running into road, mucking up in the car while mum was driving etc). I truly don't think it did me any harm. Yet the person I saw doing the smacking was female. My dad had very little to do with our disciplining (that's how old I am)! I suspect this would be a similar experience for everyone around my age. So if the theory is that boys hit women because their dad smacked children and girls take being hit by a partner because they were smacked it's a wobbly theory. Too many dependent variables.
I also think we could separate smacking from beating. It is plain wrong to compare the taps on the hand I got with the black eyes and bruising I've encountered on children at school.
I'd also like a lot more attention paid to the parents who would be er dream of hitting, yet think nothing of shouting swearing and manipulating their children through guilt. 

katp May 4, 2021

If there is truly causation between smacking and later DV, the data for Sweden should be conclusive. Bring it on. Interestingly, Sweden has one of the highest measures of gender equality in the world - I wonder how that affects data.

But what to do in the countries where children are removed from parents who smack, especially when this disproportionately applies to a particular people group???

katp May 4, 2021

@laura__palmer out of interest, I'm wondering what things you do care to debate? 

katp May 3, 2021

@mamamia-user-482898552 so how do the NZ citizens and residents get home? 

Serious question.

katp May 2, 2021

@jyutkowi time to please the viewers?

katp May 1, 2021

How many "buts" did you count in this story?

katp May 1, 2021

@rush sounds like extreme co-dependency.

katp April 30, 2021

I had one C/s after two VBs and the C/s was much easier, although obviously neither is exactly great fun. Shortest hospital stay, fastest my milk came in, settled baby because he wasn't hungry (may have been the drugs) and, feeding wasn't made uncomfortable by not being able to sit!

katp April 25, 2021

@dilemma wait til they can strap themselves into their booster seats. It'll change your life

katp April 21, 2021

@swatters Covering natural waste product in some form is just kind of like the basic decency of flushing the toilet.

katp April 21, 2021

@cat I wrote a response but I've no idea what happened to it or whether it's still "pending" so trying to recall what I wrote.


I'm aware of third wave feminism, I just think it's mistaken. Same as you are aware of my POV and think it is ridiculous and irrelevant. I'm comfortable with my views and happy to entertain yours too as that seems an appropriate way to proceed in such matters. Anyone bothering to read along can form their own conclusions.

I don't think any of the comments I made required viewing of the video. In fact, although I'm intrigued by the idea of an inappropriate video of an otherwise entirely appropriate dance, it seemed a little nasty to search it out when the dancers have removed it and complained about it.

If this dance were actually empowering, I suggest this debacle would have had a different ending. As it has been interpreted by many as sexual in nature, then that must be accepted as a possible interpretation, even if the intention was something else (perhaps to pay homage to the religious worship practices of the women from Cōte d'Ivoire - although wouldn't that be cultural appropriation??).

katp April 21, 2021

@cat I'm quite up to date on third wave feminism and completely comfortable with my views and more than willing to entertain yours too. Vive la difference! If you find my opinions "ridiculous and kind of irrelevant" perhaps it's best not to ask me for them. I gave you my opinion in good faith, taking your request seriously as coming from a place of interest and desire to understand another viewpoint more thoroughly.


Again I direct you to the actions of the dance group since their performance to assess whether their dancing has empowered them or those who might emulate them.

As to not having watched it, I'm not sure any of the comments I've made (comprehended correctly) require having seen the dance. I'm not commenting on floorwork, musicality or synchronisation - although the still shots certainly make them look a little out of sync. If the dance was interpreted by many viewers as being sexual in nature, then it's safe to say that interpretation is valid - even if that wasn't the intent and they really were meaning to pay homage to the old religious worship traditions of the women of Cote d'Ivoire (cultural appropriation??) In any case, since they pulled the videos themselves it seems a little nasty to go searching for what they don't want people seeing.

katp April 20, 2021

@swatters and it is pretty smelly if left very long.

katp April 20, 2021

Never say never.

My parenting motto: Do whatever it takes.

katp April 19, 2021

@cat With the disclaimer that I haven't seen the dance and have zero interest in seeing it, from the reaction/ probable over-reaction I gather it was a sexy kind of dance routine and was performed in skimpy, tight clothing with a camera angle that has been compared to upskirting (although surely that term presumes the presence of a skirt?).


While I obviously can't comment on the dance itself, my general opinion of this type of sexualisation is that it makes me alternately sad, angry and frustrated to see the self-objectification of women. That's where my discomfort comes from in such instances, not from blushing embarrassment. Anything that calls itself empowerment yet looks exactly like male fantasy I find highly suspicious. I'll believe it's empowering to twerk in skimpy clothes when..... never. I will never believe that and I feel sorry for women who have bought into that lie so deeply they now need to construct an ideology around it to legitimise it. It's self-evidently quite unempowering as they've had to delete their videos and public stuff and whatever else and apparently have received threats.

In high school every day I see the fallout of women portraying themselves this way and girls being either sucked into the vacuum of obsessing over their sexiness or lack thereof or wanting to get off the ridiculous train that they now associate with femininity and thinking that they don't want to be a girl anymore. And I understand and do not blame them one iota.

katp April 19, 2021

@cat In your comment on my comment you've jumped from assuming my undermined personal credibility to embarrassment. This seems a reasonable summation of how the dancers themselves were feeling given their public actions and statements. I'll leave you to ruminate on the more than one possible reason for that.


What is my initial comment? It's an honest reflection - I doubt what I truly think will pass moderation so I'll put it in a separate comment but warn you that I may have to leave you in eternal suspense.