@mammamialog well said. The lottery of what response you will get from health practitioners is infuriating.
@mummamiaow I am not a doctor, but I am a 2x HG mama and I want you to know that you should get a second opinion. The medication will not harm your baby but you being so sick can. My doctor told me that the dehydration HG causes was much much more dangerous for my baby than the meds. Please seek a second opinion ASAP and start taking the meds again (after all, you were already prescribed them and they were working). Check out the Hyperemesis Australia website and the associated FB group is great for resources and support too. And I’m so sorry you have received such poor advice. HG is hell on the body and mind but it can be made less-hellish by good and timely treatment. You are not imagining it, it’s not in your head, it is a real and debilitating illness and you deserve proper treatment x
@snorks he had many options, we always have more than the 2 polar opposite options that stress and frustration make us feel in the moment. It’s never easy to see it which is where objective third parties can work wonders. Highly recommend those books I mentioned earlier if you want to learn about the many different options there are for managing tricky interpersonal stuff in important relationships. I can’t speak for other commenters but I truly don’t believe there was a bad guy, just two hurting, very stressed and ill equipped people who could have potentially had a different outcome with more support and education. Right now I’m going to tap out of this conversation and spend time with my family over the holidays. Wishing you a merry Christmas if you celebrate it Snorks, and a safe and happy week whatever you’re up to.
@snorks He's not the bad guy. Nobody is the bad guy. That way of thinking keeps things breaking down. He did do some of those things initially but then he escalated the situation through his poor communication too. She did as well - nobody has said she wasn’t contributing but it takes two, it’s not all one person’s fault which is what you are saying. The expert explains that in the article. The “factually incorrect” part is also a distraction from the real issue of their poor communication and underlying disconnection. Anxiety is often factually incorrect, but just having facts repeated (eg telling someone with a fear of flying that flying in a plane is actually a safe form of travel) doesn’t magically fix it. That’s why couples counselling can help if sought in time because it can interrupt the cycles of poor communication that damage the relationship and escalate things to the point of break up. There's no winners here. Only two people who presumably once had something special enough to decide to marry and have a baby, who have both now lost a great deal.
@snorks If you’re interested in learning more, some good resources to start with are books by John Gottman, Harriet Lerner and Sue Johnson.
This comment thread is actually a pretty good example of how disagreements devolve into arguments where each party is trying to prove they’re right and both get stuck in a he said/she said kind of ping pong. This is common in many kinds of human interaction (even between strangers on the internet!) but it’s not conducive to long term healthy relationships, romantic or otherwise. Any focus on “winning” the argument by “proving” the other party wrong is unhelpful. You might be winning the battle, but you will lose the war so to speak. Unless and until one or both parties can step outside that dance, it rarely resolves well and often escalates to the point where the relationship is actively damaged by the interactions, as in this example. It is really hard once everyone is dug in to stop that cycle on one's own (especially if there’s any kind of trauma, mental health or underlying past relationship baggage for either party), which is where an external party comes in very handy. Of course, that only works if the long term health of the relationship is more important to both parties than being right. And research shows that generally couples go to couples counselling about 6 years too late.
@snorks surely you’re joking? If you can’t see the need for them both to be in counselling together—yes even if she is the one with the more obvious anxiety in this particular scenario—then I’m not going to waste my time trying to explain it. Given you missed the point in this article about it the first time I think you wouldn’t believe me anyway.
@snorks it’s the same representation repeated though, not an over representation. But yes that is true. Fat people are often represented as the butt of the joke, greedy/corrupt/unkind, or as Santa. Can you see how those stereotypes feel a bit tired and after a decade of real progress in many areas of diversity representation, people might have a hope that blockbuster films could make a bit more of an effort here?
@snorks no as opposed to saying “let’s go to therapy together honey to sort this out.” Offering to pay for it made it sound to me like he was sending her on her own to therapy. I agree about reading too much into it. I’m done giving it any more of my life l.
@snorks not defending the corrupt policeman but critical of the only representation of fat folks being used to ridicule and portray them as greedy/corrupt/unkind people. Which is an outdated stereotype and it sounds like the film could have made different choices given it’s 2023 not 1970.
@snorks perhaps. Even the phrasing of “offered to pay for therapy” sounds a little weird to me. Not exactly reassuring. But anyway, they’ve made their beds and now they can lie in them (separately of course)
@snorks nobody’s feelings are invalid but that doesn’t mean acting on them is ok of course. She was clearly very anxious, and yes even if the dream seems ridiculous to him, his reaction wasn’t helpful either. After he realised she wasn’t joking but was serious, he could have moved into empathy and reassurance, being gentle with his anxiety-ridden pregnant wife. Instead a misunderstanding turned into divorce. It’s a perfect example of how both people’s actions and responses to each other can escalate things further, or de-escalate and strengthen.
I have to agree with the relationship expert. Both parties contributed to this outcome. Both parties were hurting and both had valid feelings, and both had unhelpful reactions/communication. The blaming and taking sides is part of the problem.
I can only imagine the level of guilt these Mums would feel, especially if the guidelines at the time told them it was safe. How wonderful that we are talking about it now and bringing it into the open. Thank you to Sophie for sharing her family’s story.
@mamamia-user-482898552 it sounds like what you mean is that there needs to be more public discourse on the reasons why women choose to be child-free, so that individual women don’t have to justify their choices so much because it will be better understood. Which is a really good idea in theory, and but unfortunately I don’t think it will work that neatly in practice.
Why can people not just believe and accept women when they say what they want? “As a mother” (said tongue in cheek) I fully respect anyone’s decision not to have kids. It’s as valid as any other and more power to women who are open about it despite criticism.
Thank you so much for sharing your story, Bella. My mystery illness & cancer journey was a few years before Belle Gibson, and I’m so grateful for that now as I know I would also have been sucked in. Alt health & pseudoscience science can definitely be predatory but it preys on the people the medical establishment have missed, or who have had rude, dismissive or even gaslighting attitudes from drs. Modern medicine is wonderful in emergencies but it’s pretty shit at dealing with a lot of chronic illness or mental health. The system is imperfect and that drives vulnerable people to dodgy alt health spaces. Thank you for writing about this Elfy, it’s important!
@sharonbrisbane I hear what you are saying but you could make the same argument for any of the questions that are socially fraught. Asking a woman if she’s pregnant, or a couple when they plan to have children, is also usually often an attempt to get to know them. But we know that the impact is often painful and intrusive, and that is why it’s one of those “best not to ask” or only ask in gentle ways with that caveat about not having to answer. The point Elfy is making here (and one I’ve heard many times from Australians who are not white) is that while the intent might be a genuine connection attempt, it’s not received that way because of how often it’s been asked and how often it’s come with a side of “but you’re not REALLY Australian.” As a white person, I don’t want that to be my impact even if I am genuinely attempting to get to know someone. So I will listen and learn from Elfy on this one.
Hang in there, Mama. These early days of motherhood are all consuming, it’s true. But in all likelihood you haven’t lost your friends forever. I was the one on the other side when my best friend had a baby several years before I did. Tbh neither of us handled it well and for a while there I thought the friendship was over. But over time we reconnected. Nothing is ever the same after you have a baby but that doesn’t mean it’s ruined forever. Lean into your new friends who share the season you are in, just don’t write off your old friends altogether x