User Comments

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 24, 2020

@anonymous yes anonymous, I talk to abused women on a daily basis. I speak to lawyers who defend these abused women and represent them in family court on a regular basis. I am in the final stage of a law degree where I will be using it to assist such women. This argument regarding telling women to “fight back” is a complete straw man and completely unhelpful. 


And “more talking”? Really. How dismissive of you. The panellists were discussing work they are actually doing around high risk offenders, and strangulation in particular. Many on the front line don’t understand about strangulation, how dangerous it is, how it presents and the impact on women as immediate victims after the strangulation and long term (for example women being arrested for being “uncooperative” as they are confused because of anoxic brain injury and the male often has “injuries” - defence injuries as she has fought for her life, so SHE gets arrested, even ridiculed by police for defecating and urinating on herself as that is what happens when you are close to death). Awareness raising is NEVER not worth it. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 24, 2020

This is yet more disgusting commodification of women’s reproductive process. This is “normalising” the exploitation of women as “gestational carriers”, it’s glamourising “surrogacy”, and it worst it completely erases us as mothers and exploits us as human beings by paying women who are vulnerable and disenfranchised as “surrogates”. Make no mistake, the patriarchy seeks to devalue women’s role in society even further. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 21, 2020

@snorks I am not sure how being a keyboard warrior is helping "save women's lives" but okay

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 20, 2020

@snorks let it go

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 20, 2020

@snorks No Snorks. Throughout this thread I have offered solutions from deterrence, through to the Evidence Act. But  you need to stop expecting abused women to provide the solutions to this problem. Let it go dude. Concede the point and move on.


lilith lamont tordenvaer May 20, 2020

@snorks You keep reverting to placing the burden of solving abuse on the women. Do you not understand that physical abuse happens in the context of other forms of abuse, often by the time it gets that point the woman has been completely disempowered by him? Do you not understand how dangerous it would be to "fight back" to an enraged male? Do you not understand she, or her children, may suffer retaliation from him for fighting back? Do you not understand she may then be arrested for DV herself for fighting back (happens all the time)? Fighting back is not a solution. Listen to Dr. Sullivan - the behavioural changes need to come from the men, the police, the judiciary, society, not the abused women - they need our support, not to be told - you should learn to physically defend themselves! When I got strangled by my ex-partner (one time, I left not long after but not before sustaining a campaign of stalking, harassment, and further physical assault) I can tell you right now the only thing going through my head was the thought that "was this how its really going to end"? He was a foot taller, and at least 50kg heavier and solid muscle. I did not stand a chance.  How would taking a self-defence class in that instance help in any way? FGS let that idea go, its entirely unhelpful. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 20, 2020

@snorks *sigh* fighting back is not a solution. That is a male-centric solution. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 20, 2020

@snorks I hope you are listening to Dr Brian Sullivan right now Snorks. This should answer a multitude of your questions. I have no doubt you are coming from a place of good intentions in relation to this, but unfortunately you are arguing from a position that is misinformed and out-of-date (no offence), it appears you don't really understand the nature and context of DV. Dr Sullivan is talking about "focused deterrence", it may shed some light of the reality of the situation on your understanding.


lilith lamont tordenvaer May 20, 2020

@snorks Of course not. It shouldn't happen in the first place. But we need an entire rethink of solutions across the board. Are you watching the Red Rose webinar? Are you listening? Do you realise that men are vastly stronger, bigger and faster than women, and to antagonise a man who is seeking to do you harm is likely going to result in more injury, or death, to you or your children? Do you understand how coercive control works? Do you understand the impact that access to porn is having on the attitude of men and boys towards women (as objects to be used and degraded). I think you need to stop thinking of "man-type" solutions here, and listen to the women who work in the sector and listen to the women who have survived abuse. If you are really interested, have a read of Jess Hill's "See What You Made Me Do" (for which she won a Walkley Award)

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 20, 2020

@snorks Women don't need to change their behaviour. Men do. They need to stop. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 20, 2020

@anonymous don't put the burden of preventing DV on the victims! Good grief, stop suggesting women fight back, what you are suggesting is effectively victim blaming. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 20, 2020

@anonymous We need to look at the cost of DV to the community. It costs several million dollars to conduct a homicide investigation, it costs billions to keep these men locked up, it costs the community millions in health care for victims, support services for abused women, lost wages and so....for Australia alone the annual cost of DV would easily be in the billions. If we funded genuine exit strategies for women, if men were stopped the first time they abused, if we kept a register of repeat offenders that was publicly available (there are men who abuse dozens of women before they finally get locked up) so women could avoid getting involved with those men. This is not about "empowering women" this is about holding men accountable for their actions. This about men unlearning the idea that they are entitled to sex and entitled to take out their rage and frustration on women and children. Women don't need "empowerment" (an empty platitude) they need violent men to stop and to be held accountable. We need the police and court system to BELIEVE women and prosecute these men. We need the police and the judiciary to be properly trained in domestic and sexual abuse, we need more women in policing (women only police stations such as in Argentina) and we need more women on the bench. We need a complete overhaul of the Evidence Act in relation to crimes of DV, SA, and CSA because right now the entire system is set up to further punish victims and we fail most of them. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 20, 2020

@anonymous Do you really think that is going to solve anything? Do you really think these women are going to be able to break their abusers noses? Women are already disproportionately and unfairly arrested in situations of DV when they have fought back or tried to defend themselves, I have dozens of horrifying stories of women being arrested after being assaulted because they fought back. What needs to happen, is that men need to stop, they need to be removed from the home when they commit abuse, they need to be locked up, and society needs to change its damn attitudes towards excusing and enabling abuse. We need media guidelines for reporting on such cases - women are constantly blamed for being victims and men are excused for their behaviour (he's been under stress, he's got an alcohol/drug problem, she did something to do him such as rejected him or left him) - reference Dr. Jessica Taylor's work on victim blaming. Do not put the burden of solving DV and IPV on the victims. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 19, 2020

@snorks I'm so happy to see you are interested! The founder of Red Rose (Betty Taylor) is a truly remarkable woman who has overcome enormous hardship herself, I heard her speak on strangling at a conference earlier in the year, and it was equal parts eye-opening and horrifying. It is very hard to listen to these types of panels without being deeply affected. I hope you get something out of it! And yes, these webinars (I have been involved in some global ones concerning women's issues where the times were midnight or 4am as they were coming out of London, one I spoke on was at midnight) are an amazing resource to come out of lockdown, but hard to please everyone!

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 19, 2020

@snorks That's not how it works, Snorks. If it was as simple as women learning self-defence don't you think we would have overcome the problem of MVAW by now?

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 19, 2020

@Billi Fitzsimons If you are interested, Red Rose Foundation is hosting a free webinar scheduled for tomorrow (Thursday 21 May) discussing DV under the title "Conversations in High Risk Domestic Violence": an important part of prevention is having difficult conversations that get to the root of the issues and address the barriers to safety, using both theoretical and practice wisdom. It is a panel of Australia's leading domestic and family violence experts. Panelists will focus on Strangulation (Betty Taylor), Intimate Partner Sexual Violence (Di Macleod), the Response to High Risk Offenders (Dr. Brian Sullivan), and Family Law Risk Issues (Kelli Martin). 


If you are interested in this topic as a journalist (along with any other MM fans), I am sure the organisers would be delighted to have you in the audience.

(I am not affiliated with the organisation myself, but I will be attending. I have professional interest in this area). 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 19, 2020

@snorks You are completely missing the point. Women's behaviour doesn't need to change. Men's behaviour needs to change. Men's attitudes need to change. And we need to give more resources to the sector in order to enable women to escape violent men. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 19, 2020

@laura__palmer I think the best thing to do is to put pressure on men to change. Male violence against women is a male problem. It is these men feeling like they are entitled to take their rage and frustration out on the women and children in their lives. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 19, 2020

@Anonymous  It has been covered in the media. At great length. The gendered impact of the pandemic (on the basis is sex, not “gender identity” BTW) has been covered extensively in the global media. We also need to talk about how porn consumption, especially child image based abuse has risen exponentially, ESPECIALLY in Australia. There is no question this has contributed directly to rise in violence against women and children. . 


And yes, governments have failed to consider or provide resources for the impact on women who are locked in with their abusers, or impacts such as many families will not be able to afford to feed their children now so it will be girls who are kept home from school or married off as child brides. 

lilith lamont tordenvaer May 19, 2020

@anonymous Sorry but what an ignorant comment. Don’t you think if it was a simple matter of “self-defence”, we would have done it by now? 

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