Before they even had a baby, Royce and Jessica James had decided the phrase ‘be the change you seek in the world’ would apply to them. Meeting at college, Royce and Jessica would spend late nights exploring their ideas about the world and how it could be better. Ideas about racism (Royce was black and Jessica was white). Oppression. Gender.

Both passionate advocates of social justice and equality, blowing up gender stereotypes was one of the changes they sought in the world and so they decided to be it. To live it.

, we got an incredible insight into how that turned out, as host Shankar Vedantam explored

Stores in the UK are deciding to mix boys and girls clothes. Is this a good thing? (Post continues after audio.)

It’s a fascinating story – by all accounts, Isis (who now has three younger siblings who have all been raised in the same gender-neutral way) is a confident, self-assured young woman who knows what she wants and who she is.You can listen to the full interview of ‘Be The Change’ on NPR’s Hidden Brain, here.

Cir L’bert Jr and Isis James-Carnes challenge UUs to listen to & truly hear black people’s experience #uuaga pic.twitter.com/8neTGvD2KP

— UU World (@UUWorld) June 26, 2016