Kerri
by KERRI SACKVILLE
The other morning, as I was trying to get ready, as well as get my three kids fed, dressed, kissed and to school on time, an ad for 60 Minutes blasts on my TV.
“These mothers think you have it all wrong,” it says, “and they have the scientific evidence to prove it.”
I didn’t watch 60 Minutes last night. I’m really hoping you didn’t watch it either. Suffice it to say that the segment was about attachment parenting, and mothers who choose to breastfeed indefinitely. It was supposed to make us angry. It was supposed to pit us mothers against each other.
And I have had a gutful of it.
The media is forever trying to create Mummy Wars, with Good Mothers on one side and Bad Mothers on the other side. And you know what? It’s BULLSHIT. Yes, there are bad mothers – mothers who physically or psychologically or sexually abuse their kids. Mothers who neglect their kids, who inject them with drugs, who leave them festering in their own waste for days at a time.
But most mothers, the vast, vast majority of us, are good mothers, who are just doing our best.
We all have our different ways of doing things and that is just FINE. Personally, I don’t care how any other mother parents. I don’t care if you breastfeed your child till they’re ten, if you’re both happy and comfortable about it. I don’t care if you work outside the home or if your child goes to creche or if you leave the house at six every morning. I don’t care if you co-sleep, or feed on demand, or put your baby on a schedule. I don’t care if you carry your baby all day in a sling, or do controlled crying, or put your child on a vegan diet or give them Maccas chips for lunch. I DON’T CARE. If you love your child and are making thoughtful decisions and educating them and keeping them safe and enjoying their company then that’s pretty bloody good in my books.
You know what I do care about? I care about children living in poverty. I care about child sexual abuse. I care about indigenous inequality. I care about immunisation. I care about the parents of special needs kids pushed to the limits. I care about education and the medical system and the rights of kids to have their same-sex parents marry. I DO NOT CARE HOW THOUGHTFUL, LOVING PARENTS RAISE THEIR KIDS, even if they do it differently to me.
So please please please, 60 Minutes and every other inflammatory media outlet…. STOP. Stop trying to pit us mums against each other. We will not fall for it. We are all just doing our best.
Each to her own, people. Make it your mantra. Each to her own.
And stop the bullshit. It’s enough.
This was originally published on Kerri’s blog and has been republished with full permission.
You can also go here to read the 16 things you need to know about attachment parenting.
Kerri lives in Sydney with her husband and three kids. Her first book was “When My Husband Does The Dishes…” and her second book, “The Little Book of Anxiety“, is out now. You can follow Kerri’s blog here and catch up with her on Twitter here.
UPDATED EDITOR’S NOTE:
I was anticipating many comments below along the lines of ‘Mamamia is guilty of inflaming the Mummy Wars’ so I wanted to address that straight up.
My opinion differs from Kerri in that I think the idea of women debating parenting issues is not a media construct. It’s not the media that incites ‘mummy wars’ – it’s women who are terrified that they’re getting it wrong and must justify whatever choices they’ve made by slamming the different choices made by other women. The media can’t create something that doesn’t exist.
I have a particular loathing for the term Mummy Wars. I hate it as much as I hate the term Mummy blogs. It’s demeaning and patronising. Yes, women have different opinions about various aspects of mothering. Yes, many women are passionate about the choices they make. But why can’t these issues be discussed? If you feel strongly about something, why shouldn’t you be able to express your opinions and debate them?
When men disagree about something, it’s not called “The Men wars”. It’s just called discussion.
Having said that, I agree with Kerri 8000% about there being a HUGE difference between ‘bad parenting’ that includes not immunising your child, witholding love, abusing them emotionally or physically, neglect etc etc.
That is a million miles away from weaning your baby at 3 months or going back to work ‘too early’.
By all means let’s debate and air our feelings and opinions on parenting. I believe that any issue that’s important (and parenting undeniably is) should be treated this way. It’s part of how we define our values as a society.
But let’s make a clear distinction between REALLY bad mothers and those who just make well-intentioned choices that are different to our own.
Meanwhile, Mamamia will continue to publish posts about all aspects of parenthood because it’s just as important as all the other issues that are discussed and debated in society and on this website.
-Mia Freedman
Comments
537 Comments so far
Pingback: About
I soooo agree with Kerri. Yes, I did watch the program, and you know what? I found that me and my hubby do a lot of what was covered (not feeding that long tho) but we don’t label it. It’s just how we do it…However, unlike Mia, I do think that the media is beating up the Mummy Wars, or Parent Wars. I note with much bafflement, that worthy news such as HErald Sun (ha!) seem to be reporting on what we should / shouldn’t be doing on a daily basis. “Don’t co-sleep because you’ll increase the risk of SIDS”, “What sort of parent are you?” – it’s mental! What happened to the village concept or supporting Mums (and Dads) in their parenting? It’s all giving me the &%&s:)
loading...
Hello Pat,See what blurry vision does for you? I am so sorry for misken your guest blogger for you!Hope you are felling better! blue
loading...
When a child is called Blueunderwear I do have a reaction. When a child is fed chips for breakfast and lunch and dinner, I get concerned. When a one year old child is left in a room with a dog while the parent is in another room I worry. Call me judgemental but I do wonder (in the above situations) if there’s a mature and loving parent on duty. Call me old fashioned.
loading...
Pingback: There is a mummy war? OK, I hadn’t realised… « Heart Mama
wow, has anyone noticed that this article has done exactly that…
loading...
To be honest, every conversation I have ever had with other mothers regarding placing their babies in child care full time always has the same response. Not to the mothers face but behind their back. ‘ poor unfortunate baby’
loading...
Have to agree. All my friends have the same opinion about mothers who shove their babies in full time care. Plus these mothers are constantly justifying their reasons why they do it. I love my work, we need the extra cash. Yes placing your babies needs as secondary does not constitute a good mother, only a selfish one. Nearly all mothers will agree and think the same of you.
loading...
Unemployment does more than expose children to a risk of poverty. It exposes them and the unemployed person caring for them to a higher risk of domestic violence, emotional abuse and financial control. The vast majority of children who come to the attention of child welfare agencies have parents who are not engaged in the workforce. One of the solutions of child welfare agencies to this problem is to place at risk children in part or full time child care to ensure access to social and emotional engagement they are missing out on at home. Now, I’m not saying that children are necessarily at risk by being at home with angry unemployed people who troll the Internet picking on working people instead of emotionally engaging with the children. I’d hazard a guess, however, that they are no safer than my children in childcare for three days a week.
In Australia, 54 per cent of women return to some form of paid work by the time their child is 18 months old. Almost a quarter are already back working by the time their child is six months old. Yet we’re not seeing social dysfunction in epic proportions. The only place we’re really seeing it is in pockets where unemployment is the norm.
loading...
@ Ellen , Working mothers always justifying why you get others to do your job.
loading...
All mothers judge other mothers, it is human nature. Not all mothers are doing their best. The mother that places her young baby in full time day care so she can enjoy the trappings of a career woman lifestyle is only thinking of herself. Greed should not be a priority , your babies needs should be.
loading...
I had a colleague who returned to work fulltime within 3 months of both of children being born. She loved designer labels and that was what her income allowed her to splurge on. She said she couldnt cope with the idea of having to buy her clothes from Target so she returned to work. I did feel sorry for her babies because that was her motivation for leaving them for 50 hours each week in daycare. If it was to pay the rent or buy food I would have sympathised. To pay for Gucci shoes and Prada handbags….no sympathy sorry, its very sad.
loading...
Right. Yeah. Because being a ‘career woman’ is so much fun.
loading...
Sorry, but saying every mum is doing their best is a cop-out. There are clearly better choices than others. I wish women would band together and set a standard for great parenting. Yesterday I had a 16 yr old tell me that she was doing a fantastic job as a mother while she had a smoke in one hand while her baby was shivering in summer clothes in the pram drinking coke out of a bottle.
Sorry, but a lot of mums are not doing a good job.
loading...
I am watching the finale of survivor and I realised how much good can come from women working together as a team, rather than trying to tear each other down. The women had each other’s backs and the final four are all women. Imagine if we acted like this in society, how nice it would be to know that we could all be there for each other with no judgement.
loading...
I have not read all of the comments; however what jumped out at me (aside from the vaccinations, of which plenty has been said) is that you are not a bad parent if you feed your child maccas chips for lunch. Sorry – but yes you are. If you do it regularly, you are setting up terrible, possibly lifelong bad eating habits.
If your child ends up with heart disease or type 2 diabetes, they will become society’s problem, so yes. I care. Don’t do it!
loading...
Not immunising your child is bad parenting? That sounds like a judgement right there. My youngest two children are not immunised. It’s not that I couldn’t be bothered, rather it is because I read everything I could get my hands on regarding the risks versus benefits of immunisation, and I decided that the risks outweighted the benefits. Obviously you have done the same and come to a different opinion, and I respect that opinion – I don’t think you are a bad parent because you have conscientiously come to an opinion that differs from mine. Perhaps you could offer this same respect back?
loading...
Hi Sally,
I’m sorry but I can’t offer the same respect back for one simple reason. There is no reading you could do – no matter how well intentioned – that could compare even remotely with all the scientific evidence that has been established in every country in the world over decades.
It is a travesty and – for those whose children may die from a preventable disease like the ones you’ve refused to immunise your own children from – a tragedy that well-meaning people like yourself have been led to believe there is any reason not to vaccinate.
Please listen to the medical profession, to science and to every health professional with any credibility in the world. Not bogus studies and rubbish information peddled by fraudsters like the AVN.
loading...
Oh Mia, what about all the kids who contract (and some who sadly die) from diseases they are vaccinated against. As I said in my comment below – vaccination does not necessarily lead to immunity. DO YOU check your kids immunity following a vaccination? Maybe they aren’t immune to everything they have been vaccinated for. Well said Sally – my post below is along a similar vein.
loading...
And we’ve gotten off topic really because the main point is (as I also said in my first comment further down the page) that people make a choice to vax or not to vax and that choice does not make one a bad parent and certainly shouldn’t be put into the same category of bad parenting as those who abuse children.
loading...
And it’s the kids who are not immunized that make the spread of these diseases possible! Yes immunization may not always be 100% effective but the more people who do get immunized makes for the outbreaks of diseases less likely. So whilst your argument is for your child maybe you should consider the issue on a larger scale!
loading...
And also P you should be thanking your lucky stars majority of children in Australia get vaccinated and most mothers don’t think like you! What would our country be like if we all thought like you…AFRICA!!!! Thank God for immunisation!
loading...
I saw my sister ill as a child with a ‘mild’ dose of whooping cough and the skeletal frame she had for 12mths as it took her that long to recover fully was heart-breaking. And we were ALL IMMUNISED – hence the reason she only had a ‘mild’ dose. If anyone has seen such a sick child you would get your child immunised. Yes sometimes immunisations need boosting – this is why you get booster shots if you are planning to have a baby; why those near and dear (dads-to-be, grandparents, etc.) get booster shots when new bubs are expected; why tetanus is given every so many years; etc.
Agree with Mia – read the scientific evidence. Protect your child and those around them; especially those few children who cannot be immunised for medical reasons.
loading...
Anti-vaxers are probably very caring parents who know someone who has had a bad reaction to a vaccine and have decided not to risk it on their children. It is because they care about their children, not because they don’t.
How about the argument that you ‘vaxers’ are continuing the government’s ‘greater good’ attitude? By agreeing that we should all be over-vaccinated, causing our immune systems to run amok, you are subjecting some people’s children to terrible side effects. I saw an episode of ‘the Doctors’ on autism and the doctors actually admitted on the show that the rates of autism etc are now much higher than any fatalities measles would have caused. Yes, yes there is no link between vaccines and autism you say, keep spouting that, despite the head of the CDC admitting on CNN in 2009 that there is a link. And thousands of mothers around the world telling us that they know their child changed after the MMR vaccination, which means more to me than any government evidence.
You vaxers make out that we are all risking the lives of your children by not vaxing but your willingness to vax is actually subjecting some of us to awfulness.
But your kids came through it ok right? So it doesn’t affect you anymore, just the mothers of newborn babies having to make that awful decision now. Governments will never, ever admit that any vaccines cause problems because the money it would cost to combat measles etc. would be unacceptable to them. Something is causing childrens’ immune systems to overreact, allergies and autism are through the roof. I am not willing to take that chance on my children, I’d rather take my chances on their immune system fighting it how it was meant to. And I don’t know one non-vaxer who has caused anybody else to contract a terrible illness, yet I know multiple kids who have had chicken pox and whooping cough, despite being immunised for it. Does this mean that they are also carriers?
loading...
Selfish I say!
loading...
It’d be awesome if you could give us some links to The Doctors and the head of the CDC’s admission. Thanks in advance.
loading...
Google it Kris. This isn’t a university thesis.
loading...
Clearly.
loading...
It’s your argument. You give the examples and proof, Jash.
loading...
My opinion Kris (where’s yours?) Take it or leave it.
loading...
Oh so it’s opinion now? I thought you were stating that this was what other people had definitely said about vaccinations?
Make up your mind.
My opinion is staunchly pro-vaccination. That’s no secret.
loading...
Jash making points without examples and proof. Best to think before you write ..
loading...
For you Kris. I’ve obviously hit a nerve with you in previous posts, that you target my comments out of all on here?? Maybe contribute to the debate, rather than just tear others down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh-nkD5LSIg
http://www.thedoctorstv.com/main/show_synopsis/104?section=synopsis
Hope these links work!
loading...
Did you read the links yourself?
In the doctors link, even Doctor Gordon who says there may be some genetic link that means vaccinations may trigger autism (NOT cause autism, just trigger a child who already has it underlying) still doesnt say not to get immunised… He says wait 6months to a year to see how the child develops first and get more information (and this is directly related to the family of 7 children where 4 have autism – not to society in general) and says that if we stop giving certain vaccinations, illnesses may return.
Then the Youtube clip (this is not a medical study – just some persons opinion on how the CDC Chief handled questions about the Hannah Polings case… I knew nothing about the Hannah Polings case so I read about it in the times news article http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1721109,00.html which says she also had an underlying condition that the vaccinations may have triggered… And in reading further down the article states that it was the Mercury (thimerosal) in the vaccinations that saw the reactions like these and she had her vaccinations in the year 2000 and that she had an unusually large number of vaccinations and that vaccinations since 2001 now dont have that Mercury.
So, nowhere is there actual evidence that vaccinations CAUSE autism… only that possibly in children that may already have it underlying the stress of immunisations may trigger the autism to show. What isnt mentioned in these or your discussions is that if these children had this underlying condition and didnt get immunised then would something else trigger it later… and as all of these articles state… not enough is known about autism to be sure of the answer.
In short (though perhaps am too late to call this response short), correlation does not equal causation!
loading...
I’ll ask anyone making claims without backing them up. Especially antivaxers. Because they’re usually dodgy to say the least. It’s nothing personal.
This is the transcript of what Julie Gerberding said:
“But my understanding is that the child has a — what we think is a rare mitochondrial disorder. And children that have this disease, anything that stresses them creates a situation where their cells just can’t make enough energy to keep their brains functioning normally. Now, we all know that vaccines can occasionally cause fevers in kids. So if a child was immunized, got a fever, had other complications from the vaccines. And if you’re predisposed with the mitochondrial disorder, it can certainly set off some damage. Some of the symptoms can be symptoms that have characteristics of autism.”
That is nothing like an admission that vaccines cause autism.
And your reference is Jay Gordon? Seriously?
loading...
There is so much wrong with what you’re writing there, that it’s impossible to respond to it in any reasonable size post. But I’ll give it a whirl.
Antivaxers may very well care deeply about their children, but unfortunately many of them seem to have fallen prey to the huge amount of misinformation on the web. Some of the demonstrable falsehoods I have heard them repeat are ludicrous, and it almost always falls back to a giant medical conspiracy by tens of thousands of mainstream medical professionals.
How can you be “over vaccinated” and why would it cause your immune system to “run amok”? Do you realise that your entire world is surrounded by pathogens trying to invade you, every hour of every day? Why would a vaccine, which is just a killed version of exactly the same germs which would try an invade your body anyway, overstress your immune system any more than it already is every day by living viruses and germs?
The CDC said no such thing regarding autism. In 2009 the head of the CDC Julie Gerberding simply said that they had no answers to the autism rise and acknowledged that parents want answers. Antivax groups then came to the amazing conclusion that this was an admission that vaccines cause autism when she in fact said nothing of the sort. Subsequent huge, open studies found absolutely no association between autism and vaccines. Mothers say many things, as they’re entitled to do. What about the tens of millions (literally) of mothers whose children did NOT “change” after vaccination?
Governments and medical professionals don’t admit that vaccines cause problems because the simple fact is that they rarely ever do! Why would you “admit” something that is a rarity as if it happens “all the time”? It’s a fact that some people in car accidents can be injured by their seatbelts. So you want seatbelts for kids to be “optional”? A personal choice? Does that make sense to you?
loading...
I think this argument is about lack of trust. Doctors don’t trust mothers and mothers don’t trust doctors. Why would parents all over the world, mothers going by their mother’s instinct, say that the immunisation is what caused their child to get sick or change?
Why can’t doctors explain why allergies and autism rates are sky-rocketing, to counter this?
Mike, the head of the CDC did admit in 2009 that in a small percentage of the population, there might be an adverse reaction to the MMR vaccination. I personally saw a friend’s little boy break out in an eczema type rash all over his body an hour after receiving his MMR. He was then diagnosed as allergic to a long list of substances, when previously he wasn’t. That’s what I mean by over-immunising, forcing our immune system to become over-sensitive and constantly deal with all of these vaccines we are pumping in to our babies. How else do we explain all of these allergies, let alone the exploding rate of autism?
I personally survived measles as a kid but my next door neighbour’s grandson has a very limited life as someone with severe autism. Maybe it hasn’t been scientifically proven, none of us have read everything but who is financing the research and whose interests are at the heart of it? The only thing I have as a mother is my instincts and on this one, I choose against the over-vaccination of babies.
Btw isn’t there also an argument out there about whether we are changing our genetic makeup with all this sudden immunity, that might create even further susceptibilities down the track…?
loading...
Jash, I’m not sure you understand how vaccines work at all and by reading your comment I doubt that you understand the immune system at all (very forgivable- it’s extremely complex!!)
It sounds like your friends child who got a rash after the mmr vaccine and was subsequently diagnosed with allergies possibly had allergies prior to this vaccine (and indeed was allergic to a component of the vaccine — was any of these allergies egg by chance? Common for vaccines to contain similar proteins to egg and causing a reaction).
Your immune system is activated by every pathogen you come across. Having measles / measles vaccine your immune system creates the same response to the measles pathogen when it’s introduced next. That’s why vaccines work so well!
loading...
This is boring. It’s been discussed a million times before.
Next….
loading...
Hi guys,
I didn’t get through 400 plus comments but just want to say that I am confused and scared about every decision I make for my children bc I have no crystal ball and don’t know what the outcome of my parenting actions will have. Sometimes I feel overwhelmed and exhauasted by the weight of it all. The complexities of my life I won’t bore you with but I reckon you could find research to support any agenda you have and all this technology, social media exposes us to so much more imformation we feel compelled to read so we know what is right. I read it all and then am still confused but the best advice I was given is to let it all go and trust your instincts. You won’t ever know if you are “right” , no scientist can ever know what is “right” bc science always moves and changes and what was considered safe 40 years ago may not be safe today. People who think that if they learn enough, they’ll get it right, and once they have it right their job is to convince someone else of their knowledge, please understand that you are contributing to the noise that blocks parents from their own instincts to love and care for their own…. I wish there was less noise so I could enjoy parenting more…
loading...
Love the mummy wars, entertainment! Especially when the working mothers who get fired up about criticism associated with leaving their children in care.
loading...
You love it don’t you, Shirl? Witnessing the hurt and anger when women who have made difficult and often heart wrenching decisions about combining work and parenthood are then maligned by perfect strangers? The fact that you find that fun is truly, truly disturbing.
loading...
Guilt ridden!
loading...
Why dont some mothers stop holding onto the all about me attitude. If you think it’s ok for strangers to take care of your baby full time then no I don’t think of you as a good mother. As they say ellenisn’t it easier to be at work then look after your babies. ?
loading...
Nat, get help. Really. You’re so off it’s not funny.
loading...
i sense a little anger there Ellen. Feeling a guilty trip perhaps ?
loading...
@ Ellen,. sorry you are the typical mother that gets all huffy and puffy when your actions as a mother are questioned. Glad I am not the one feeling the guilt trip.
loading...
Any mother gets huffy & puffy when their actions are questioned. We’re all constantly questioning our own actions and worrying if they are the right choices, let alone feeling as though we have to justify them to others who have no idea of our situation or what’s constantly going through our minds.
And no I’m not a working mother.
loading...
Shirl, I’m with you. They only get fired up because they feel guilty. At the end of the day, mothers wake up, throwing your child in full time care is emotionally and cognitively damaging . Children want their mothers. Children need their mothers. If you are not prepared to invest your time into their early childhood then get your priorities straight, your babies should be number 1, not number 2. Accept graciously your new career.
loading...
You’ve identified the problem. So, what’s the solution? Ban women of childbearing age from the workforce? Take the children of working parents away and put them in foster care?
loading...
Not my issue or problem I don’t have to deal with it. I won’t be dealing with the issue that arise from child abandonment but parents who leave their children will be.
loading...
Ellen: I think with some education and sensitivity towards our children is what we need. Full time (or close enough to) childcare before the age of 3 is damaging. Proven fact. As I walk past the childcare centre daily, and witness small babies (under 6 months) being cared for by random workers, the only term that comes to my mind is abandonment.
These mothers need to asses their priorities in life: their career and a litle bit of extra cash; or the happiness and contentment of their beautiful baby.
loading...
I work in childcare and agree 100% with you .You can dress it up however you like as a mother to ease your own guilt , but leaving any child under 2 in childcare is damaging , babies left in childcare break my heart.I retrained and now work with preschool age children, who are ready to face the world away from their family .
loading...
Childcare equals child jail.
loading...
This may contravene the dinner party rules but sometimes I feel the need to cut to the chase…
Look, most of us don’t give two shits about attachment parenting. Have your tit in your child’s mouth at his 21st for all we care. Your choice.
Same goes for working mums vs SAHMs. Both situations have pros and cons and both are a guaranteed predictor of precisely jack shit. Deep down we all know this. Most kids turn out ok.
Most “mummies” couldn’t give a flying fuck either way UNTIL their child or probably ANY child appears to be in actual danger. And that’s when people will lose their shit and state their opinions forcefully and sometimes aggressively.
THESE are the arguments we SHOULD be having becuase the decisions of some can have devestating effects on all. What you do personally, with your children, your tits, your life is your own business. We’ll probably bitch about it to our friends but really – it doesn’t keep us up at night.
But when your choices affect my child’s health or put children into situations of largely unneccessary danger, then we have a problem.
Otherwise, it’s all just bullshit to while away the time.
loading...
Couldn’t agree more!
loading...
You’re invited to my next dinner party!!
loading...
OMG, well said. Funny with its bluntness, but well said.
loading...
Im a neonatal nurse (working With prem babies and sick babies) I’d invite any of you to come walk around my ward anytime (if it were allowed). You would never criticize or care if another mother criticized you again let me assure you. Why can’t we all be greatful for beautiful healthy children! So many people out there can’t have kids, or have lost children or have children with illness and disability. There days are filled with – will my child turn blue and need cpr today, will he ever be able to eat, roll he ever be able to breath on his own? I f people are worried about what Mia said on a website, or that you shouldn’t give children apple peel, or how other people parent then you have it all wrong I’m afraid! Get your priorities right! Be greatful for what you have! Support each other! Be nice to each other! Maybe think about what a mother may be experiencing before you criticize and for gods sake be happy and proud of being a mum and of those mums around you!
loading...
You win most “sensible comment award” in my book. If you work in the neonatology ward i already know you speak from the hard, cold, coalface of reality and are most likely an angel already.
loading...
I have to agree with Mia on this; that debate is important…and really, it is called a discussion, not a war.
I too believe that intention is everything. Parenting with love is what most of us try to do. And that is important. But it does remain so that certain practices have been found to be better for kids and society (and for parents) than others, and this is based on research. I know that people don’t like looking at the science relating to sacred things like parenting, but I do believe it’s valid. I don’t think, for example, that smacking kids is helpful for kids or parents, and there are other disciplinary practices that work better. I also think that the majority of scientific research finds immunisation of children to be best practice. Discussing these topics between us is relevant, and makes us better parents. Perhaps parenting in the Internet age will make us better parents, because we have so much access to information upon which we can make informed choices. (We are yet to see if the Internet age will make us worse!).
I remain a pretty unjudgmental person, and am very accepting of most people and their choices. But I do stand behind certain practices…like immunisation, not smacking children, etc. and how they benefit children and society.
If you want to talk more about this, drop round to http://heartmama.net or http://www.facebook.com/heartmamaxx
loading...
I love the mummy wars, endless entertainment! It only seems to exist online, I’ve never observed it in real life.
loading...
Seriously Mia. Your first example of ‘bad’ parenting is not immunising your child Quote: ‘….. a HUGE difference between ‘bad parenting’ that includes not immunising your child, witholding love, abusing them emotionally or physically, neglect etc etc…’
Choosing not to vaccinate is simply not in the same category as emotional of physical abuse. Note my use of the word vaccinate there as the choice is to vaccinate or not to vaccinate. Not all vaccinations result in immunity to the disease in question. Do you check your child’s immunity after they have been given a vaccine or do you just blindly trust they are immune?
Yes I am a non vax’er and I am very well informed on the subject BUT the point here is that I don’t think choosing TO vaccinate makes you a ‘bad’ parent (especially if you are informed) and certainly it is not even comparable to emotional or physical ABUSE. Again, seriously Mia.
loading...
Can you point me to your information which had cause for you to become “informed”? Thanks.
loading...
Sure can if you are actually interested in becoming more educated reasonablehank but the use of inverted commas and your pic re: the AVN has me wondering if you’re really interested or if you just don’t believe this info exists and think that I have become ‘informed’ by psychic powers or something.
loading...
Difference of opinion is good, in fact I think it’s necessary in this world. How boring would it be if we all thought the same thing? What does bother me is the media, including MM, presenting something as opinion when it is not well informed with research and established scientific fact. I can think of a couple of times where an opinion piece on this site has included incorrect information-for example, the breastfeeding one where Mia had to subsequently state she got her facts wrong in the comments section (http://www.mamamia.com.au/parenting/lets-chill-out-about-breasts/). Also, the anti homebirth article by Sarah Le Marquand (http://www.mamamia.com.au/parenting/home-birth-and-hospital-phobia/) has played on my mind for some time. By all means, disagree with homebirth! That is your absolute right, but please be aware that NSW Health has a homebirth policy (http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/policies/pd/2006/pdf/PD2006_045.pdf) that permits homebirth under very, very strict circumstances for low risk women where there are qualified midwives present. These policies are not flung out willy nilly-they require solid evidence (as a government bureaucrat, I know the policy process well). They go through an exhaustive process through many, many layers of sign off approval. What i find disappointing is that it seems Mia has subsequently been informed of the circumstances where homebirth is considered safe and now includes the terms freebirthers and high risk women when talking about how she disagrees with homebirth. Quite rightly, as the evidence shows, these are the circumstances that are not considered safe for homebirth. Mia seems to have found out the facts, which is great, but in the interests of transparency, factual provision of information and full disclosure, the reasons for the change in use of terminology should be disclosed, otherwise all we have is misinformation. Mamamia has done great work with deferring to Dr Rachie and proven scientific fact regarding the vaccination debate, it would be great if this approach was taken elsewhere. Many women come to this site, it has so much to offer, but I also think it has a big responsibility to provide the correct information to its readers. Then, we can make up our own minds about what is best for us and our babies and take it from there.
Can I also add that I am not being aggressive towards Mia and apologise if this comes across that way.
Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
loading...
Difference of opinion is what makes us human and be civilised etc, so great that we have many opinions and many ways to do things. Vive la difference as they say.
The problem is that at a time in your life that you should trust your instincts and your “village” you are often isolated with a new squishy visceral thing and a pile of books, lack of sleep and 100 opinions. It’s hard for any mother to know what is right and wrong and what is acceptable now. 30 years ago we were beaten with a cane by teachers. Imagine if that happened now?
After trying several different things with each of my children, I’ve settled on a style of parenting that is slightly different for each child – tougher for one, more coaching for another and we haven’t worked out #3 yet.
Support your fellow mums.. we are all in this together. Love your kids, love your parenting style and be open to things you haven’t considered before because they might just work.
loading...
Can we get over the concept that it is all about mothers parenting and making all parenting decisions. Loving mothers do a great job. So do loving fathers, ideally in combination and “the tribe” puts in its tuppenthworth to help. Siblings, grandparents, cousins, aunts are all part of the mix and it is not totally, thankfully for all, the mother’s sole responsibility or her right to make all decisions.
loading...
Okay, so I know I should be commenting on the article content, but you can only ever reach 100%. That’s the meaning of a percentage!!!!!
loading...
Google “hyperbole”.
loading...
“But let’s make a clear distinction between REALLY bad mothers and those who just make well-intentioned choices that are different to our own.” How ironic Mia, given your slamming of women you called “birthzillas” because they chose to make detailed birthplans to ensure their choices in childbirth were considered ie “well-intentioned choices that [were] different to [your] own”! Or well-informed women who choose homebirths…
loading...
I dont consider playing Russian Roulette with the health of my baby or myself to be well informed.
loading...
I’d be really interested to know Anon whether you researched every aspect of the care you received during your pregnancies including evidence regarding inductions, active third stage, options for pain relief, the dangers of unnecessary interventions, the risks associated with elective caesarean sections and the evidence surrounding appropriate place of birth. Because most women who choose homebirth are well-informed and do research this information. As I hear you sigh that “here goes another homebirther…” for the record, I have not had a homebirth, nor would I have chosen one for myself, but I respect the right for women to have the choice of caregiver and place of birth that is appropriate to their needs. There is ample evidence that for low-risk normal pregnancies homebirth with a qualified and experienced midwife is as safe or safer than a hospital birth. I have put links in previous posts to the evidence so I won’t do it again. My comment wasn’t to set off another string of misinformed attacks on women who choose homebirth but to point out the irony of this article on MM (a great article by the way Kerri). There are ways to report on issues around pregnancy, parenting and “women’s issues” in a balanced way that utilises evidence from experts without inflammatory language that sets off these “mummy wars”. But that doesn’t get hits.. And in answer to your “Russian Roulette” comment, sadly pregnancy and birth is that way for all women, no matter how well you plan things and no matter how good your care is – there can always be that unlucky bullet. As someone who had a term stillbirth at the end of an otherwise perfect pregnancy, I can assure you that no matter how well informed you can be, things can still go wrong no matter where you are.
loading...
You’re entitled to your opinion.
And I believe that anyone who chooses to give birth away from quick access to an operating theatre and blood is taking too many risks.
loading...
From my reading of home birth forums and the comments I see from home birth advocates on articles like this one it is pretty clear that most women who choose to home birth are misinformed not well informed.
loading...
Actually TashD I think you will find the “slamming”was towards Freebirthers not women choosing home birth, 2 rather differing choices.
loading...
Hi TashD,
My job is – in part – to write about social trends. The rise of the ‘birthzilla’ is something I have noticed over the past few years, just as we noticed the rise of the bridezilla a few years before that.
There are many shades of birthzilla from the harmless to the dangerous. My anger is reserved for those at the dangerous end – who willingly choose to jeopordise the life of their baby simply so they can satisfy their personal preference for a particular type of birth. This includes free birthers and any woman who has a high risk pregnancy and insists on a home birth.
I stand by my position and make no apologies for it.
loading...
Mia, that leads me to think that the Bridezilla has grown into the Birthzilla, its going to be pure bloody hell when these zillas get their precious offspring to school!!! Teacherzillas, tuckshopzillas, readingmummyzillas! augh!!!
loading...
Nana-zillas!
loading...
forgot the zillas in the middle, the menopausezillas!
I can see them now, unwaxed facial hair, pushing dandelion tea as the cure to insomnia, whilst standing next to open windows,
loading...
Ah ha, I should have guessed. Stop the mummy wars unless you are a non-vaxxer or Dangerous Freebirther!!
“I DO NOT CARE HOW THOUGHTFUL, LOVING PARENTS RAISE THEIR KIDS, even if they do it differently to me.”
Except if that’s TOO different. Thoughtful, loving parents sometimes choose not to vaccinate their children. Yes that has risks but so does formula feeding and yet it’s still sometimes the decision that thoughtful, loving parents come to.
loading...
No Georgie,
I don’t care how other people parent UNLESS they are putting the lives of their babies – or other people – at risk. THAT I care about very very much.
Yes Freebirthers and Anti Vaxxers, I’m talking about you.
loading...
To be honest I don’t care how kids are parented. Each to their own. What I do care about is non vaccination of children. I just can’t understand how you would not want to prevent horrible illnesses in you kids. Vaccinations are safe. What really bugs me is that the choice not to vaccinate affects other kids/ adults. Those with chronic illness etc. I would love these parents to come to my work one day( an adult and pediatric ICU) and see what these preventable illnesses do.
loading...
Perhaps they could see my son , clining for life in ICU , after a routine “safe ” vaccination. He will never be the boy he was intended to be, thanks to me blindly following government guide lines .No one informs you befor they jab your adored baby with poision that there are risk associated with immunisation .My son has a “medical exemption from immunisation, my other children proudly have a “concientious exeption”.Call me a bad mother , get F##ded
loading...
I’m sorry your son was in ICU. You fail to mention the cause of this. Was it a very rare anaphylactic reaction to a vaccine or did something else occur around the time of his vaccination? I am genuinely interested, I often hear of things being blamed on vaccination when it was actually something else( ie I “got the flu jab and got the flu” etc).
loading...
My sons first vax at 2 months resulted in febrile seizures, we spent six days in hospital.His second at four months , same story , you think I would of started to question at this point , but I am ashamed to say I presented him again at 6 months for much of the same , this time I voiced concern and we stayed in hospital for the vax .At 12 mnths we had the MMR ,which is when he had a major anaphylatic reaction causing sever respritory distress which in turn caused his heart to fail, turns out he is allergic to eggs and the MMR virus they inject into our kids is grown on a chicken embryo.He also suffered febrile seizures this time and has been left with life long neruological issues.He also will have life long problems with his heart.I take the health of my children very seriously , they visit a homepath regularly, are taught to eat for health ( they have never had packaged food ) and were exculsively breastfeed .So mia , you would have me labled negligent for not immunizing my following children ? When in fact there is a very real chance that I could be putting there lives at risk by doing just that .By the way, the test that canbe done to see if you child will have a reaction are not 100% there was a 4% possibility that a problem would not be detected, for too high in my opinion
loading...
Anon, I am pretty sure Mia’s argument re non vaxx is not about kids that can’t be vaxxed for health reasons (like your son), but rather parents that choose not to vaxx their kids.
One of the big responsibilities we have is to ensure that kids who can’t be vaxxed due to health reasons have as much protection as possible from these horrible diseases we vaxx against, hence the reason (among many others) is why my son is fully vaccinated.
loading...
I actually watched this show whilst my baby was trying to settle himself in the next room (read – was crying and shouting cause I wasn’t feeding him to sleep). Needless to say the show made me feel even worse than I already did. Thank you for this article, I needed to read this.
loading...
Bettina, if it’s any consolation, I had to go through the same thing with my son to get him to to learn to fall asleep without a feed. I breastfed for a long time but the time has to come for them to fall asleep without it.
We did have a tough couple of nights but he has slept brilliantly ever since and he’s now a bright and healthy 16 year old. We are very close and he certainly shows no signs of damage.
loading...
Bettina, you are not the only mother who has let their child cry (scream) themselves to sleep. I had to do it with my two! (Although it has to be said, not for long enough as my husband cried longer than the babies – he couldn’t stand it) Don’t let 60 Minutes or anything or anyone else make you feel guilty! You are doing the right thing!
loading...
I did controlled crying with my first two kids (my third didn’t need it) and I never looked back. They’re brilliant kids. I would never advise anyone to do controlled crying or to not do it, but for gods sake don’t feel bad about making a choice that is right for you and your child.
loading...
Same here – I really wanted to do the whole baby attached to you 24/7 thing, but as a single parent with ill health myself, I knew it wasn’t a practical choice – the day would come when I couldn’t be attached to the baby, and there would be drama around that – so I chose the controlled crying method.
Thankfully, bubs was very much a self-soother anyway and happy to do his own thing in the bassinet – having learnt it from NICU.
loading...
Mia, don’t stop your posts on ‘mommy’ issues please.
As much as a disagree with some of your articles, or some of these commentators to your articles, I think it is wonderful that such issues can be discussed in such an open forum.
I often find that I am NOT with the majority when it comes to parenting issues: for example, where I live many many many many people do not immunize their children. I strongly believe that children SHOULD be immunized, but I do not often voice this opinion outloud because of the backlash I get from other mothers (who are often more outspoken than I am). This is a reassuring spot. I find people who agree with me. I can voice my opinion without being talked over.
Further, I find most of these ‘mom’ issues very interesting. It is terrible that some people feel judged (sometimes rightly so when the articles do not agree with their personal beliefs, but these articles seem to get more comments than any other type of article on your site, so yes, they are very relevant and should continue.
So let’s agree to disagree, and keep the conversation flowing!
loading...
Thanks D!
loading...
I agree. Isn’t it funny though how we can’t discuss “mummy” issues without becoming defensive? Maybe it always becomes personal because it is… personal? I don’t know why it is that a women can be strong, independent and confident and yet still feel insecure when confronted with another mother’s parenting.
loading...
OH FFS! I rarely comment anymore, but have read all the responses and I must say that some of you should have a stick of fairy floss and lighten the fuck up, some should take a teaspoon of cement and harden the fuck up, and some of you should simply get the hell over yourselves. A thought provoking article from Kerri has to turn into this? History tells us that a society which turns upon itself does not have a happy ending. Do you think that women in war-torn or famine ridden countries are judging one another like we do? OMG, X allows Y to walk 8kms to get water for the family at 6, I would not allow Z to do that until until he was at least 8. Come on.
loading...
Lovely perspective chef
loading...
Lovely perspective chef
Hey Mia what happened to the dinner party rules?
People can talk like this
and lighten the fuck up, some should take a teaspoon of cement and harden the fuck up, and some of you should simply get the hell over yourselves.
about other people who comment, clearly breaking the dinner party rules but because they are agreeing with you, you applaud them.
loading...
Exactly catgirl! It’s enough to give you whiplash isn’t it? I’ll let you in on a little secret … I’m not sure that Mia does it on purpose. I suspect that she either lacks insight or doesn’t give too hoots that, taken as a whole, her responses to feedback are neither consistent nor coherent.
loading...
Honestly? I was reading this comment at traffic lights and didn’t notice the swearing. I was agreeing with the last couple of sentences.
Hence my ‘incoherent’ response.
loading...
Mia, you were serioulsy reading this comment at traffic lights? I can only hope you weren’t driving. Given your oft stated prediliction for never being without technology I can’t be sure.
loading...
Honestly? I was reading this comment at traffic lights and didn’t notice the swearing.
Someone in your position where you have people hanging off every word you utter, needs to pay more attention to what words she is reading and makes sure her wits are engaged before she puts her fingers on a keyboard
loading...
Mia, I was just really frustrated, and apologise for the swearing. Just that all the dinner parties I attend/give/cater for, the f word flows as freely as the wine.
loading...
Really, guys?
I would have thought it’s clear it’s not a personal attack on anyone in particular, it’s a general comment about a section of comments made on this post.
Surely you can see the difference between Chef’s comment and telling someone directly “You’re a fucking idiot who needs to harden the fuck up”?
People swear.
loading...
Surely you can see the difference between Chef’s comment and telling someone directly “You’re a fucking idiot who needs to harden the fuck up”?
either way it’s not appropriate language to use on a public forum, and also more to the point it was very verbally aggressive in tone, which is bad on a discussion forum.
Unless you have some sort of standards if not actual rules, this forum is going to go to the dogs. Haven’t you noticed how many of the prior regular, nice people who used to be very active on this forum simply don’t come here anymore.
loading...
totally agree with you catgirl and still waiting to hear that Mia wasn’t driving at the time…..
loading...
Catgirl, I am a regular, nice person. Regular nice people sometimes swear to make a point, a bit like other regular nice people overuse italics.
loading...
I’m one of the regular, nice people who has dropped off posting a bit, and it’s got nothing to do with posts like Chef’s. I am friends with quite a few of the posters you mention, and they have all commented on why they’re not around much anymore, and it’s nothing to do with a bit of casual swearing.
loading...
as an adult, I would of thought you’d heard all these words before. What is so shocking ?
loading...
a bit like other regular nice people overuse italics.
The use of italics to quote what part of a pervious person’s comment you are referring to is standard internet forum protocol. The fact that it’s not widely used on this forum is because most of the people on it don’t know basic html coding.
loading...
Thanks Kris. You always get it. x
loading...
I have had 3 babies. My first was breastfed for 3 months due to pressure from the clinic sister whom I had to visit on a regular basis. After she was put on formula she started to thrive. My second, a boy who didn’t stop breastfeeding or wanting me 24 hours a day. He was breastfed until nearly 2.
My third,another girl who didn’t want anything to do with breastfeeding and after 6 weeks of torture settled into bottle feeding beautifully.The girls didn’t want to sleep in our bed at all but our son wanted to be with me all the time. Today they are all beautiful,responsible adults in their 20′s and I am very proud of them. Mum’s,there are no rules if you follow your heart and realize each child is an individual with likes and dislikes. If you love them and do your best they will be fine. Don’t take any notice of anyone’s judgments. You’ll be fine.
loading...
Hooray! This is it perfectly! Thank-you.
loading...
GREAT article – best one I have read for ages!!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly how I feel.
Of course it was a bit ruined by Mia’s comment … such a shame she ruined a fantastic article with that awkward, defensive disclaimer.
loading...
I agree with Kerri and Mia 9000%. However, I would just like to put a word in for the so called ‘bad mothers’. Who gets to decide what is good mothering and what is bad. Who decides what is good enough? You, me, the prime minister, the government … who I ask? Single mothers on Centrelink payments notoriously get a bad name for being, well, single mothers on Centrelink payments. I work with many of them and few fit the stereo type but are readily labeled ‘bad mothers’ by the general populace. So called ‘bad mothers’ are often ‘not doing mothering good enough’ because governments continue to fail to provide appropriate and sustained funding for early intervention family support. And also quite often ‘bad mothers’ are bad because … well, the child’s father has flown the coup and has chosen to leave ALL the responsibility to a Mum who is often traumatised from domestic violence and or family violence and or sexual assault or a partner who has destroyed the household budget through rampant substance abuse. Why is it that the ‘mums’ have to be ‘bad’. Can we PLEASE not split mothers into rival ‘camps’. Those who are perceived to be ‘bad mothers’ are often surviving in the most hideous of circumstances and are still trying to be the best mothers than can be whilst dealing with complex issues you and I couldn’t even dream of. If we set the ‘mothering’ bar so high that only few of us can jump over it then there are going to be an awful lot of ‘bad mothers’ out there.
loading...
Very well said. Thankyou for articulating my thoughts so well.
loading...
I never tell anyone I’m a single mother, who receives some centrelink benefits, because of the stigma attached to the ‘single mother’ label. Like most single mothers, I didn’t set out to be one, and I think people tend to forget that.
loading...
Athough it doesn’t help your pride or sense of achievement, there is no shame to using a centre link benefit. Most of us are only on them temporarily. Bob Hawke said once “the systems there, use it”. Some may have taken this a bit too literally, but in need, most of us would turn to centre link.
I was on a sole parent pension for a few years and went through uni while on it. Yes, people looked down their noses at me, because I looked like the stereotypical young mother, but these days the young mums I work with are shocked if I tell them I was on a pension. The wheel has turned.
loading...
In lodging a complaint about getting dicked around by Centrelink and basically doing their jobs for them a few weeks ago, I pointed out that I didn’t really have the time to be sitting waiting on hold for 45 min+ every time I need to find something out or they want me to call them, and I don’t have the time (or particularly want to take a toddler) to their offices to sit and wait for an hour for something simple, because I am full time at uni. I *may* have also pointed out that most of us aren’t sitting around on our arses waiting to get pregnant again.
loading...
Kris, my parents have both recently retired and have been jerked around by Centrelink so much they are lodging a complaint too.
They have been told so many conflicting things, filled out paperwork that wasnt necessary, had medical assessments that were deemed unnecessary and then the next person they deal with takes it all back to square 1. They are largely self funded and just want a bit of help with medical expenses as they are very hefty. They know people who have a lot more money than they have who get a lot more help than they are requesting from centrelink and they are being sent on a merry go round.
They really do feel for the people who are really sick and dont have the energy and the people whose written english is poor, because they are both educated and they have struggled with the red tape.
loading...
I suspected and commented a while ago that those of us who aren’t born into welfare probably have a harder time of dealing with the welfare system when we have a need for it. When I’ve brought this up with Centrelink staff they agree. They say there’s a group who fall through the cracks and don’t get everything they’re entitled to under the system because we don’t have people advocating for us and we don’t usually know many (if any) people who are really entrenched in the system.
In my dealings with them, it’s patently obvious that it is the latter they are used to dealing with and treat everyone that way, and that everyone is a dope who will either just cop whatever they tell them and not do anything else, or won’t ask questions.
I’ve found the staff in the centres to be largely great when you’re face to face with them, but the call centres are really hit and miss. I actually had a guy pull the Little Britain “Computer says no” on me once. That was a page of complaint right there.
Just because you’re using the service doesn’t mean you have signed up to be treated like shit!
loading...
Interesting, and likely very true!
Dont give up the fight Kris. I just spoke to my mum and they’re off to battle with their local branch for the 8th time in 3 weeks. Probably to be given new forms to fill out and told another version of what they can/cant get.
loading...
Two things stand out from all these comments…
Many missed the point that Kerrie was making that we should be concerned by the children – in Australia and more commonly around the world – who don’t get enough food, or any love or are physically, sexually or emotionally abused. The comments of child protection workers in here have been largely overlooked.
Secondly, that the vaccination issues have pretty much proved her point. That so many are het up about it when kids (and their mothers) around the world would die for (bad choice of words – do die) the opportunity to protect themselves from killer diseases.
loading...
Yes. Thank you x
loading...
Nice one, Kerri
And Mamamia – how disingenuous to suggest the media can’t create a then-us situation that wasn’t a ore-existing fact. Tosh.
loading...
I kind of agree with both. I do think the media stirs the pot though esp. With headlines more than anything. Like this one ‘these mothers think you have it all wrong’. Headlines like this are designed to provoke and set people against each other, not encourage debate. I’m all for debating the latest research, I love learning more but the media seeks out the extremes and then pulls you in with an adversarial style headline. For this reason I didn’t watch the 60 minute thing either. I might have missed out on some interesting info. But I’ll take my chances.
loading...
“Mummy Wars” have been going on for a long time, and my first taste of them was online and certainly not the media. I agree with Mia that they’ve been around for a long time, the media didn’t create them – but you can bet they get full value out of them though!
loading...
Mia, I only have this to say to you:
GO YOU GOOD THING!
Love your work!
loading...
Oh come on!
I love a good debate! That’s one of the reasons I love Mamamia — I love reading the different opinions and debating things (respectfully) with other readers. As Mia said, this isn’t a Buddhist website. Life is about vigorous debate … which in turn leads us all to be more empathetic and to sometimes (shock! horror!) even change our minds and realise that maybe our previous opinions were wrong!
Totally agree with Kerri that choices shouldn’t be portrayed as good or bad …. but let’s not go overboard and start asking Mamamia to stop posting personal stories and news articles.
And this whole “the headline made me behave like a troll” doesn’t cut it with me. Just because the site uses a catchy or shocking headline doesn’t mean we are incapable of debating things in a polite way.
loading...
Just saying, the thumbs up button hasn’t been working on my computer all day. I’m using the most recent version of Chrome on a PC.
loading...
Research is constantly being done about infant development (including bonding with parents sometimes). Some of it will suit some people and their babies, but never everyone.
Example carrying your baby around all day (a la attachment style) would never have suited me because of my back for one thing.
Who knows, next year someone may do research to show attachment parenting isn’t great.
Like others have said do whatever works as long as you’re not putting your kids at risk.
To Lottie, that woman at the BBQ had the problem, not you.
loading...
Thanks Faybian
loading...
Wow. Serious hair envy Kerri! Hubba AND Bubba!
And to the woman at the BBQ the other week who told me to just let my baby sleep in her own vomit so she learns not to vomit – get stuffed!
Man that feels better
loading...
let a baby sleep in their own vomit, so they learn not to vomit!!!! Seriously, That is so screwed up . now I’ve heard it all.
loading...
I just looked at that pic of myself and had hair envy too! Wish it looked like that every day!
And with regards to that woman at the BBQ…. just…. speechless……. x
loading...
First it was the advent of makeup which enabled the media to own and judge what it deemed acceptable and not acceptable in terms of womens beauty.
Then it was the assault on womens bodies once the industrial revolution came about, because it isn’t so easy to maintain a svelte and sexy figure with the proliferation and abundance of food in a developed nation.
And now that we are in the information age and women are earning an income its all about motherhood and the myth of “having it all”.
As womens power rises in society we naturally see the backlash occur.
“The basic premise of The Beauty Myth is that as women have gained increased social power and prominence, expected adherence to standards of physical beauty has grown stronger for women.”
Just swap out Beauty, and put in its place Motherhood.
The media has been able to infiltrate women psyches and make us all miserable whilst distracting us big time from the bigger issues that are happening in our country and on our planet.
loading...
Do you know why I love the contributors of Mamamia, because you all are intelligent, thought provoking and gutsy writers. I applaud you for telling it how its is and not giving a damn what controversy is created; and I do agree with this article. Can we stop berating each other already its tiring… We all have enough on our plate I’m sure without ripping into each other. I totally support the mothers that chose to feed their kids until 3 or 4 years old if thats right for them; I also have equal support for the mothers that say, “hey thats no for me” or “I cant breastfeed because of….” I would rather spend that time others spend bitching or patting themselves on the back with my kiddlets thanks….
loading...
can I just start of by saying I can’t stand the word mummy. Also I wholeheartedly agree with Kerri, as long as we are not physically, sexually or mentally assaulting our kids, we should all be left alone to raise our kids as we see fit .I also agree with Mia, that as adults , we should be able to have discussions , debates, etc on a variety of issues. Where we need to draw the line when having these ‘discussions’ , is when we start making nasty comments, backhanded comments, snide comments etc ,to each other when our opinions differ. ( this is just my opinion by the way) .
loading...
Thank you. ‘Mummy’ is like ‘little lady’ or ‘dear’.
SUCH a condescending word.
loading...
I rather like the term “Mummy”, but only when it comes out the mouth of my child.
loading...
Yeah, if someone introduces me as “A Mummy” I don’t like it, but I don’t mind being called “KDot’s Mummy” especially to and by other little kids. But adults when it’s not warranted? Yeah, Nah. Kind of like being called “The Mrs”. Urgh.
loading...
I hate the MRS too! Why do people automatically assume I am Mrs Shipley? Single working mother and proud of it, thank you very much (and I know that’s going to earn me negative points in the Mummy debate!o
loading...
I hate it when men call their wife ‘the Mrs’ too…..its especially grating when they’re not even married!!!
loading...
Yeah “Mrs” seems to be a default, especially if they know you’re a parent.
I wouldn’t change my name if I was married anyway, so wouldn’t be a Mrs either way.
It’s as annoying as hubby.
loading...
No, the differences between attachment parented or not, breast fed or bottle fed kids won’t be obvious as adults.
Chicken pox scars might.
Infertility stemming from mumps in our young men might.
http://www.kidspot.com.au/familyhealth/Pain-relief-Immunisation-The-new-health-problem-when-parents-fail-to-immunize-with-MMR+2979+559+article.htm
loading...
Death due to whooping cough might …
loading...
my kids have chicken pox scars … chicken pox wasn’t an immunisation when they were small … i don’t think it’s quite scarred them in a way that is obvious … the violence their father perpetrated upon them and their mother though … well … and the inequality and stigma of them being judged for being poor might … sigh …
loading...
What are these Mummy Wars you speak of? In the real world – i.e. away from the media – I’ve rarely experienced a mum who constantly judges another. I know this goes against what we’re all told every day, but the main thing I experience is mums saying “I wouldn’t do it but it’s horses for courses…”. The over-riding view is “whatever”.
If you vehemently disagree with someone (in the real world) you tend to stay away from them – hence, no war. People disagree on things every day – it would be boring if they didn’t.
loading...
judgement isn’t always verbalised or overt. the subversive stuff and subtle exclusions that occur are judgement aplenty … i feel judged every day … by mothers … just saying … they don’t probably know they do it … cos leaving someone out … not acknowledging the inequality or difference … that is judgement too …
loading...
Yes but people have to take responsibility for their sensitivities too, sigh. If you’re feeling judged every day then perhaps it’s your issue.
loading...
heheh … wow … i’m not that sensitive … p’haps able to notice subtlety a little more than others … like how you just now turned that around on me to not have to think about how you might be around others, that you aren’t aware of, that could make them feel excluded … not that i’m probably not doing that a lot of the time also … cos i’m an incredibly flawed (and sensitive) human, and i reckon i probably contribute to some people feeling excluded … but i try not to … i really do … it’s how i use my powers of sensitivity for good … and i really was just making a point … cos though i’m sensitive enough to notice it, i really don’t sit around feeling all “woe is me” … i’m a pretty hardy, pretty easy going person who manages to accept the exclusion with a fair amount of grace … and just cos i’m gracious, doesn’t mean it don’t hurt my feelings … on account of having some …
loading...
I agree- I have felt judged I. The past- took me ages to realise the only person judging me was me.
loading...
Mummy Wars are pretty clear.
I’ve been told I should not have had a child if I wasn’t prepared to be a stay at home mother.
I’ve been told I was a BAD MOTHER for bottle feeding instead of breast feeding (for those idiots, it was expressed breast milk because my prem baby couldn’t breast feed, but that’s another story).
I’ve been accused by antivaxxers of “giving” my child autism by having him vaccinated (there is NO good evidence to show that vaccines are in any way responsible, but the latest antivax tactics is to accuse parents in this way.
Mummy Wars are real. And don’t even get me started on the “Warrior Mum” movement…..
loading...
I personally think the worst vitriol in this debate is reserved for working mothers. Everyone has an opinion on it, and a lot of them aren’t very nice.
loading...
I think SAHMs cop their fair share of criticism. According to many comments, the kids of SAHMs live in hibernation, hiding away at home with their mothers who dont mix with the outside world, closeted away with no stimulation and social interraction. And when they start school they will be educationally and emotionally disadvantaged and it will be obvious to all that they spend their early childhood at home with their mum because of this. And the SAHMs themselves must be dull and lacking in grey matter to be able to cope with such a dreary unchallenging existance staying at home looking after their children.
loading...
Those comments dont bother me because I know they’re not true, but it is irritating that some people do believe them. To be honest by the time your kids are about 8 or 9, nobody will know or care how they grew up. But the one thing that will be obvious are the kids who havent had and dont get enough attention from their parents.
loading...
I agree with you Mia…why should you not talk about something because it might create comment and indeed traffic to a website…it defies logic…I don’t have an opinion per se on attachment parenting but it was nice to know that the fact that our six year old daughter is still bed with us…more often than not…doesn’t mean we are bad parents or that she will grow up to be an axe murderer…and if that is your opinion that I’m a bad parent I respect your right to say so..I just don’t agree with you…and you know what..that’s ok
loading...
Isn’t it about now Meryl Dorey of the anti-vacciantion network (AVN) chimes in with something that makes her sound all reasonable and pleasant, in an attempt to make us ignore the fact she encourages people to persecute the parents of children who died of SIDS?
That’s what usually happens…
loading...
yep – that’s how it usually goes when she sniffs anyone talking about vaccination. I wonder why she’s so quiet today? Maybe after doing so much removing-shoes-from-mouth since yesterday she’s a little tired?
loading...
Meryl’s on the quiet front lest someone point out again (probably me!), that she recently published pornography where little kids could see it.
loading...
While I’m not an attachment parent — I fully support them. And we should all just parent the way we want to and do what feels right.
However, I DO NOT support Dr Sears and his scare-mongering. His ‘brain damage’ research has been debunked numerous times. Even the researchers (whose research he sites) have reprimanded him for taking their findings out of context.
Please read this: http://ideas.time.com/2012/05/10/the-science-behind-dr-sears-does-it-stand-up/
loading...
Agreed. I also felt that he contradicted himself re the co sleeping during the 60 minutes segment too.
loading...
We didn’t immunize our children for a few reasons. Against all odds,they’re happy and healthy. But who knows, with my ” bad parenting” maybe they’ll turn into serial killers yet…
loading...
What were the reasons, Wendy?
loading...
She doesn’t have to justify her reasons any more than you have to justify yours. I’m guessing her reasons would probably be because she researched it thoroughly though. And yours would be because the government told you it was a good idea.
loading...
No, Wendy doesn’t have to justify her reasons to me, courageous anonymous commenter. Wendy stated that there were “reasons”, and I asked what they were. Wendy can answer, or not, depending on her want.
Thank you for commenting, courageous anonymous commenter who claims to do research.
Yours,
Government Whipping Boy
loading...
I appreciate your interest, and if it was just you and me away from a forum, then I may have chat. But I’m over the intense vilification. Just because I didn’t vaccinate, doesn’t mean I believe what the AVN says is true either. I could say it would be nice if others would respect my views as I respect theirs , but thats not going to happen this lifetime. Love how not immunising was considered bad parenting, right up there with with holding love.
loading...
I also have a non-vaxed child and strongly dislike the AVN and their methods. Grrr! I hate being lumped in with them.
loading...
She “researched it thoroughly’.
Give me a break. You’re joking, right? She researched it more thoroughly than every scientist in every country in the world?
And she came to a different conclusion?
Wow. That’s impressive.
Wait…..
loading...
I’m pro -vaccination and have had my kids done but I don’t think there is anything wrong with trying to inform yourself before making the decision to go ahead (or not). And I’m guessing that probably not ‘every scientist in every country in the world’ is pro- vaccination.
loading...
Yeah, only the reputable ones.
loading...
“Informing yourself” from the wrong and one-sided sources is not making an educated decision. Vaccination should be required by law if you are to live in a civilised society, end of story.
Parents who chose not to vaccinate their children and their children end up not acquiring said diseases are only lucky because the majority of people around them are vaccinated – herd immunity people – you aren’t just naturally immune. But this is really a discussion for another article. ~(a molecular virologist)
loading...
some scientists in some very affluent very mainstream countries advocate later school age vaccinations than we jab our little babes with … i’m torn on the vaccination camp and have vaccinated though not convinced … would probably, given the knowledge i have now, to choose later vaccinations rather than infant ones … so though maybe “many” countries have had their scientists work in this field, not all scientists or countries have chosen the same thing Oz has … a different spin on similar stuff … the way it is with all things …
loading...
Well, I suppose it’s up to you if you want to cocoon your kids for the first 6-odd years of their lives.
*shrugs*
loading...
Look, I know I’m as bad as the chick I castigated earlier on but is there any reason why you can’t finish a thought (sentence) with just one full stop and then start the next thought (sentence) with a capital letter? It’s a pretty widely accepted way of expressing yourself.
loading...
What’s with all the full stops in your comments? Can you just use one at the end of each sentence like everyone else.
loading...
Well, Wendy, you are most fortunate that the majority of people in our community made a different choice. Luckily for you, our choice provides protection for your unvaccinated children by virtue of herd immunity.
You’re welcome.
loading...
And if she didn’t vaccinate for real medical reasons then by not contributing to the herd immunity she is also increasing the risk for those who really aren’t able to vaccinate. Not something I’d be bragging about.
loading...
Where are my manners? Thankyou.
loading...
My parent’s did not vaccinate me and I will not vaccinate my children. I have never had any health problems and spent a lot less time ill as a child then a lot of my vaccinated friends and cousins. Not vaccinating does not make you a bad parent – and if it does, my parents are bad parents with four very healthy adult children. GO THEM!
loading...
Well as long as you are okay Emma. Don’t worry about those who may have been relying on your immunity.
loading...
Don’t worry, I won’t.
loading...