Yesterday, a mother-of-three crashed her car outside a primary school in Victoria after picking two of her children up from school. Her third child, a six-month-old baby, was also in the car. She was more than six times over the legal limit, with a blood alcohol reading of 0.304.
Australian Drug Foundation policy director Geoff Munro has said most people would fall into a coma if they drank enough to get to a reading of .3.
“A person who can read .3 and still function is most likely drinking at a high level on a very regular basis,” he said. “These people’s bodies have adapted to drinking high volumes.”
Today, her husband has come out to say that the community should not judge his wife because she is a “good mum”.
More from news.com.au:
The grey car driven by the mother 6 times over the legal alcohol limit who crashed it outside her children's school.
The husband of a woman caught driving more than six times the legal limit with their six-month-old child in the car has pleaded with the community not to judge her.
The man, who didn’t want to be named and broke down as he spoke to media, said his wife was suffering from depression but said she was a “good mum”.
“She is a lovely woman and a great mother, or I wouldn’t be with her,” he said outside the school this morning.
“But she has some demons she is battling.”
Friends said the woman had been struggling for a number of years and urged people to show compassion.
Shocked parents from the school said they were disgusted by the incident.
“We’re just lucky no one was killed,” one said. “Kids were leaving school and if the car had gone up on the kerb it may have killed one,” she said.
The accident happened outside one of the main gates to the school. Parents said it was widely known the woman had a drinking problem. The school principal said he was appalled by the incident and said he phoned police after a parent notified him of the accident.
“It’s just horrifying,” he said. “The whole thing just makes you throw your hands up in exasperation.
Yes it does. Yes. It. Does.
Compassion. Don’t judge. Well, I’m struggling here. I’m judging. I’m not just judging, I’m stating a fact: anyone who drinks themselves stupid and gets behind the wheel of a car is an idiot. And anyone who does it with their children in the car is a bad parent.
Shall we define ‘bad parent’ in this instance? Anyone who puts their child’s life at risk. Or who intentionally harms their child. That’s my definition.
I don’t care why they did it. That is immaterial. She could have killed her children.
And don’t even get me started on all the other children – and adults – she could have killed by drinking herself virtually into a coma and then getting into a car.
So yes, I’m going to judge. I’m going to say it’s appalling that she got in that car. I’m going to say it’s appalling that, even though it was apparently well known that the woman had a drinking problem – and her husband clearly knew she had depression and other issues which seem to include severe alcoholism (according to his statement and the statement by police about her condition) that she was STILL allowed access to that car. Not to mention that she was left alone with a baby.
How can you not judge that? How can you NOT say that’s not OK?
I’m not going to be simplistic and say “take her children away”. Clearly, this is a family in need of help. But everyone has choices about their actions – including the friends and family of this woman who – if she is suffering from depression or anything else – must take some responsibility for leaving her alone with her children and with access to a car.
I once wrote a column about how we’re no longer allowed to judge anyone for anything and how it infuriates me – particularly when the “don’t-judge” admonishment is used as a moral gagging tool by someone who doesn’t agree with you. Or worse, to promote some kind of utopian kumbaya world where everything is OK.
Because there are many many things that are no OK and part of living in a civilised society is to communicate our boundaries. To apply critical thought. To have an opinion. To judge.
Here’s part of what I wrote:
Absolutely, there are kinds of judgement I abhor. Like seeing a woman in a flesh-flashing outfit and calling her a slut. What can someone’s clothes tell you about their sexual behaviour? Or walking past a girl pushing a pram and thinking, “dole bludger”. That’s ridiculous. “You can’t judge a book by its cover” is a cliché because it’s true. But you CAN judge a book by the words inside it.So when someone is, say, found guilty of deliberately harming their child, I have no problem judging them a bad parent.
Just like a person who crashes their car repeatedly could be fairly described as a bad driver.
About a year ago, I wrote about a case where a man received a suspended sentence for shaking or throwing his 12-week-old baby so hard, the child is now partially blind and badly brain-damaged. The judge thought it would be more helpful if the man helped care for his severely disabled son rather than going to jail. On my website, I expressed shock that such a person would even be allowed around vulnerable children. Cue finger shaking. “There but for the grace of God go I,” chastised some. “Don’t be so judgemental,” said many others including a good friend. “He might be a terrific father for all you know.” Really? But how?
Are there reasons for such crimes? Excuses? Back stories? Frankly, who cares. My concern in these cases was not for the adults because they’re…. adults. They can be responsible for themselves and make their own choices. Babies and children unfortunately don’t have that same choice. They’re at the mercy of their primary carers. And I believe not all primary carers are up to the job. Biology isn’t enough to make you an adequate parent let alone a good one.
Abuser? I judge you. I judge you to be a bad parent and a bad person. Shame on you.
“But you don’t know all the facts” insist the don’t-judge police. Well, in these two cases, I knew enough to make judgements, which, incidentally, are of absolutely no consequence. I’m not an actual judge or a DOCS worker. My opinion is merely that. So I’m perplexed when someone tries to shut it down by taking some odd moral high ground.
I’m confused about this Pollyanna state in which some people would have us live. A world without judgement. A Kumbaya land of rainbows and unicorns where every choice was equal, every behaviour tolerated and everyone given an understanding pat on the back for doing their best. Even if their best put a child in hospital. But wait, don’t judge.
This isn’t about how long you breastfeed for or when you went back to work after having a baby. That type of ‘judgement’ is as ridiculous as it is uneccessary. But judging people whose behaviour could – or does – put their children’s lives at risk? It doesn’t mean we don’t also want to help them. It doesn’t mean we turn our backs on them.
For the protection of the most vulnerable members of our society – children – we must judge parents who aren’t anywhere near up to the job.
If you need immediate help, you can contact:
Lifeline – 13 11 14
Suicide Call Back Service – 1300 659 467
Kids Helpline – 1800 55 1800
MensLine Australia – 1300 78 99 78SANE Australia has fact sheets on mental illness as well as advice on getting treatment. Visit www.sane.org or call 1800 18 SANE (7263).
You can also visit beyondblue: the national depression initiative (1300 22 4636) or the Black Dog Institute, or talk to your local GP or health professional.



Comments
457 Comments so far
I constantly tell myself that I don’t care what people think as I know I’m a good mother but I saw this link and couldn’t click fast enough to find out “what makes a bad mother”, for the just in case I was a bad mother and I didn’t know it.
Turns out that I’m not thankfully.
I hope her husband and family, being aware of her state of mind, tried to do everything in their power to prevent what happened. It seems that she shouldnt have been in a position to get behind the wheel. Especially with 3 little lives. I hope she gets the help she needs.
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Are you all ready to judge me?
As the daughter of a woman who lost her 17 year old son (my brother) to the wheel of a drunk truck driver, after a life of loving doting and protecting him in every way possible, I have seen first hand the suffering that such a lack of responsibility can ensue. 18 years later, my mother’s heart aches no less than the day she lost him.
So to this selfish woman, I stand and I judge with Mia. I judge her lack of ability to honor with gratitude the enormous gift it is to have children in the first place. And I judge her disregard to keep them safe to the best of her ability.
Now go ahead and judge me.
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I don’t understand how these things happen. This women lives in a community and has a partner. I judge them as harshly as her because those kids should never be left in her care. Surly if she can get in a car and remember school pick up she can phone someone to help. Maybe I also judge our society because we don’t live collectively and what happens in the home too often stays there, we are too individual .
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I used to help look after two children who went to school with my children. I had been asked to help by the kids father and grandparents as their mother was a heroin addict. Other parents at school thought she was drunk. She’d turn up in strange cars full of junkies going to score drugs and then ask me to take the kids for her. Of course I took the kids as I couldn’t have lived with myself if I had let them get in that strange car. Then she would never come back so I’d ring their father or grandparents to come get the kids. I am sure she drove the kids in the car while she was stoned or strung out or going to score drugs. It was horrible knowing that. Eventually she assaulted me and I had to call the police. She thought I was trying to take her kids or be a better mother to them. I was just trying to help. It’s been a few years and I don’t have anything to do with those kids. I just couldn’t anymore. Thankfully last I heard she was off drugs and had moved away – 4 hours away – and was clean and getting on with life. She left her kids behind. They are with their dad. So I guess there are no winners in this situation really. And I imagine the family who are the subject of this story have also got a long, hard road ahead of them. There are so many tragic stories out there.
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“This isn’t about how long you breastfeed for or when you went back to work… judging people whose behaviour could – or does – put their children’s lives at risk?… we must judge parents who aren’t anywhere near up to the job.”
This encapsulates for me the failings of MM and why I have become disillusioned by it. MM is based on a fundamental premise of judging mothers but it’s all couched in terms of “I’m not judging but…” You think it’s okay to judge this woman because she’s “clearly” putting her children at risk. But it’s about where you draw the line. Elsewhere on MM some people think not breastfeeding is putting children at risk (…of diabetes, obesity, etc) or that going back to work is (i.e. children in full-time day care in the first year of life display increased aggressive behaviours). Recently MM judged homebirthers as putting their children at risk. I find MM arrogant in the way it pretends not to be something it obviously is.
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But this site is all about judgement? Mother leaves her children – bad mother. Mother has depression and alcoholism – bad mother. Shame everyone can’t live a white bread, cookie cutter, huggies wearing, osh kosh ironing, Dove serum slathering perfect lives. Pull up a seat at the Mammamia wine bar…..
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Are you serious? What about the general public in their cars or in the school that could have been killed by an out of control drunk driver.
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Can we judge the behavior not the person? I think she should be locked up, but it doesn’t necessarily follow that she’s a ‘bad’ person, however, she broke the law, endangered her own children and countless others, which is unacceptable behaviour. Not an unacceptable person.
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Mia this sort of reads like your purpose is rebutting the husband. He says she’s a good mum, you call bullshit. I’m just not sure it needed to be done, when it’s stating the bleeding obvious?
Our laws uphold the “boundaries” of our society (the word you use to describe the purpose for judgement) and in this case they are extremely cut and dried. Again, you’ve stated the obvious. What she has done is wrong and is not tolerated.
I actually find “judgement” a lot more useful in situations that are more in societies grey area – maybe such as breastfeeding or how long children need parents as primary caregivers – precisely because these are things which are important and which “society” has yet to form a collective view on. Drink driving and threatening the lives of kids is kind of a no-brainer.
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OK, I would be interested to know what the reaction would be, if, hypothetically, mum was from a respected family, did not have a history of alcoholism or depression. But she had been to lunch and drank too much and crashed her car outside the school. Would people be more sympathetic or more critical of her actions?
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Of course there are times when we need to make judgements about a person’s behaviour. It doesn’t mean we are damning the whole person, just their ability to make safe choices.
As a principal of a disadvantaged school too often I had to play Ms Nasty and threaten to call the police if a parent was about to drive drunk or stoned. With or without their children. A whacked out driver has no place on the road, especially around schools.
As for the mother being depressed there is help out there. Car-keys can also be confiscated if necessary. Sometimes we need the nanny state so children can be kept safe.
Maybe the embarrassment of being judged might finally wake this mum up.
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I am going to judge. I judge the dad for not takin better care of his children and fOr not insisting his wife get help. I judge the friends and family who were not doing something about this. I judge the school for not reporting sooner – what happened to mandatory reporting? I judge the other adults in those poor children’s lives for not stepping up and getting involved due to their own fear or other pathetic excuses. Those poor children. Imagine living with an alcoholic mother who suffers from depression and hoping that a grown up will step in and protect you but seeing them all turn a blind eye. Sadly, not much of a stretch for my imagination. I know why being those children feels like. I know that they need to be protected. Shame on the father for not protecting them and for turning a blind eye. Shame on her for endangering lives. Shame on the community for not helping them all before it came to this. And for all who enable child abuse, in all it’s hideous forms, speak up. Protect those that need it most. Start standing up for children and stop worrying about bring told to mind your business. Child protection is the responsibility of us all.
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And yes, loads of spelling and grammar errors but phone typing will get you that.
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Well said!!! And I will say it again, child protection is everybody’s responsibility!!!
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Okaaaaaay so to the people who are having a go at the ‘non-judgey utopia brigade’, I think their point is not ‘never judge anyone oh that would just be so unpleasant of you’ it’s more that, well, what is the point of this article? It really could be headlined “It’s fine to judge people who do terrible things. Okay go”
What is this achieving? We are the mums who stood at the school gate saying ‘oh she’s awful isn’t she, she’s drunk again’.
Maybe a more constructive article would be some suggestions of what to DO if you became aware of a similar situation in your community. I imagine it would be quite a dilemma, but gossiping and condemning sure aren’t going to help anyone. Some practical advice (offer to drive the kids home yourself? Contact the husband? Tell the principal? The cops?) could go a way towards helping someone.
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I love reading this site and reading others opinions and rights to speak and this article has certainly raised some comments. This is a very sad story of a mum with young children, and i have no idea about alcoholism i fortunately have not come across this in my life but i would assume that like all substance addictions in her mind she probably does not realise she is doing the wrong thing, and probably does not realise she should not get behind the wheel, I am not saying this makes it ok as it certainly does not, but sadly she made a very poor decision and judgement this day and thankfully no one was physically hurt, but to label her as a bad mother is so harsh, and so hurtful, and so damaging to this mum, she obviously has very little self control over her addiction and sadly needs some help and hopefully when the judge hands down his judgement she will now be forced into rehab and counselling, addictions a lot of the time are covering deep seeded emotional issues. I don’t think she is a bad mother she has just made some bad parenting choices which hopefully now she will get a second chance to learn and get help for. I am sure as parents we have all at one time or another made some parenting choices that in hind sight may not have been the best, but that does not make us bad parents. This mother is fortunate that she will get a 2nd chance and hopefully change her lifestyle.
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Judging someone’s actions as bad/irresponsible/appalling isn’t mutually exclusive with helping the person. You can judge someone’s behaviour and still be part of the solution. In my mind, judging is about having values…in this case, valuing the rights of a child to be safe and protected by responsible and loving parents.
By the same token not judging someone is not synonomous with helping them. It’s all very well to sit back and say ‘don’t judge’ but that in itself doesn’t help anything either. In fact I feel that it is more likely to be associated with apathy and non-action. One can imagine that perhaps the other school yard mums took the “it’s not my place to judge” attitude and maybe that contributed to them not doing anything constructive.
the opposite of judgemental isn’t compassionate. the opposite of judgemental is impartial,
I would hate to live in a world where we all took an impartial view to the safety of our children.
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On a side note, imagine if ALL cars in Australia were fitted with alcohol-ignition lock devices. Such a simple and powerful piece of technology, that could help keep us all safe.
To me, that’s not a nanny state, just harnessing the power of technology for the greater good.
It wouldn’t solve this mother’s issues with alcohol, depression etc, but it would keep her, her children and the community a little safer.
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Unfortunately people would find a way to cheat the system – much like the (irresponsible) truckies who learnt how to bypass the speed limiter.
I have heard of a guy in america who had the ignition thing fitted, and used to get his (stupid, enabling) girlfriend to blow into it so his car would start when he had been drinking…
Its a good idea though, its just not foolproof…
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I grew up with an alcoholic father. I abhor drink driving. I don’t drink. But I sure as hell don’t think that this piece is helpful.
As many have already pointed out, to not only shame the mother (can we leave the mother to the courts rather than the court of public opinion) but to extend that shame to the father with so little information about this families circumstances, is beyond the pale.
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I think what she did was the wrong decision, and she should have to face the consequences.
I don’t think she’s functioning effectively as a parent at this point in time, but I don’t think labels such as ‘bad mother’ are useful or necessary.
Nobody knows what frame of mind this woman is in to have gotten to the point she has. Does it excuse her behaviour? No. She needs to be punished to the full extent of the law, and then she needs to get help for her drinking problem, for the sake of her children
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At our school each child is collected in their classroom by their parent. We are a small school, and the children are infants age, so this is completely possible. But at any school pickup there are infinite number of other people around who could ‘pick up’ on someone collecting a child under the influence. How can it be that no one stepped in? Surely with a blood alcohol level that high she would have reeked of alcohol? Unfortunately I’ve witnessed the mothers at the school gate gossiping about other women they deem “unfit” to parent. Despite their condemnation of another woman’s parenting, never is a finger raised to help. It makes me feel ill. I think we find it increasingly easier to look at someone else and take a step back. Much harder to take an interest in someone else’s life. Of course what this woman did was abhorrent to those of us not in her circumstance and of course her children deserved better on this occasion. But I think rather than condemning the individual this is an opportunity to ask ourselves how did (the collective we) let this family get to this point, and how can we prevent it happening again. Crap happens – the great thing about being human is we have the capacity to learn from our crap.
Aanyone out there maybe in the same boat and wondering when a story like this might be written about them…..there is a better way, there is help out there, things can change for you for you and your family.
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Having read some of the comments below, I would like to say:
This is an opinion website. I wouldn’t come here for news or facts. I come here to read Mia’s and the other writer’s opinions. If you want news, facts, counseling, advice etc go to a website that specialises in that.
What this woman did was wrong. There is no argument here. I’m sure she is conscious of that now and even before the incident. From what I have read in the comments below, this is not an uncommon thing for mothers to be drinking and driving. Perhaps now that this has happened and made public, it will not only raise awareness but may cause these mothers to think twice about the choices they make.
I think if you have made a choice like this, expect public backlash.
There is always help if you want it whether from family, friends or professionals. You just need to ask. And if they really do care about you, they will not judge.
And also, stop hating on Mia (which is judging btw)
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How high do you think the likelihood is of people asking for help when they (or someone in the same situation) have been publicly shamed to thousands of people, compounding their already existing feelings of extreme worthlessness, hopelessness, helplessness, isolation, depression and self-hatred that are commonly associated with addiction? Do you think they would feel encouraged and supported, or sink further and have their feelings of worthlessness, etc. confirmed?
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Perhaps others in the same boat might think “Wow, I don’t ever want to get into a situation like this where there is a possibility I will be publicly shamed. What can I do to prevent that from happening?” It could be useful as a wakeup call to seek help for people who are doing things like this every day. Maybe scare them into it a little bit. I do believe that it is up to each individual as to how they choose to live their life. I understand that depression, addiction etc is not something that you choose to have. However, it is your choice as to how you deal with it. I guarantee that if you asked for help, you would receive it and not be judged for it.
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It sure doesn’t feel like a choice at the time. I had my mother continually telling me that I could just choose to be happy and then I’d be “better”. You know where that left me? Feeling suicidal, thank you very much. Because obviously the fact that I hadn’t “chosen” to be happy meant that I was a failure, etc, etc, hello ever-darkening spiral. It took me a year beyond that point before I got myself reluctantly into therapy, and two more after that before I accepted that I would need medication. Those were three hard, awful, gut-wrenching years and not a single moment in them felt like an actual “choice”. And that’s only dealing with depression, not alcoholism on top of it.
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I’m sorry if I have caused offence but I think you may have misread what I have written. I understand that having depression, addiction etc is not a choice. However choosing how you deal with it is. I was diagnosed with depression around 5 years ago. I went to the local GP and explained how I was feeling as I knew it wasn’t right. He told me I had depression and I should try taking something for it. So I did for 2 years. I cannot explain how much better I feel now. Obviously though, this is not a fix for everyone. All I can say is I highly recommend speaking to someone, anyone, if you don’t feel right. Things can get better.
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I think you’ve missed the point of my post, Miss Mel. You keep saying that “how you respond is a choice”, while I keep pointing out that when I was at my lowest (so far, and pray God, my lowest ever, although I can never be certain that I won’t one day be back there) I was so very far past the sensation of having a choice, of having any agency AT ALL against the black cloud that had settled all around my brain that I could NOT conceive of making a choice. And during this time I was holding down a job and keeping in touch with friends and still living within a fog that kept me from feeling able to do ANYTHING. Your experience is not my experience. Neither my experience nor your experience may be the experience of this woman.
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If Mia’s post was designed to offer help to those people that you describe, it would at the very least include information at the end for support groups for people suffering from alcoholism and their families, perhaps depression services, Lifeline. This appears to be the standard practice for other posts on this website dealing with other mental health issues. Instead, it was about shame. It is very hard to seek help when you are shamed by society. You think: what’s the point, these other 100+ people called me a bad person, there’s no help available for me, I’m pathetic, my GP/counsellor/family/friends/neighbour probably think the same thing. Shaming with zero offer of help contributes to stigmatising, and stigma is extremely debilitating.
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I notice today that support services have been added to the bottom of the post. Very interesting. A good move, but it’s disappointing that such information wasn’t added before 400+ people commented and no doubt hundreds more people read the post.
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This article and all the issues/opinions surrounding it have not left me since yesterday.
I am interested in pursuing the line that we are not to judge, or judge but help. I’m yet to read any pragmatic real life solutions regarding how this help presents itself.
I write from the perspective for the daughter of an alcoholic. I posted earlier in this thread but did not elaborate. I cannot begin to emphasise just how our sh!tastic our childhood was. Driving drunk regularly was only a small part of it. There were experiences/words/actions/consequences that no child should ever have live through once, let alone on a daily basis. I became guardian to my younger siblings as soon I was legally able and we moved away from the toxicity that alcoholism can be, so that we could start to build a life. It was only when we were away from it that our lives could start to become our own, rather than being owned by our mother’s addiction.
In terms of help available to her, here’s the snapshot:
- GP. He would talk to her about her addiction. He gave her sleeping pills and valium to help. Drinking and prescription drug use ensued.
- Intervention. Attempted MANY times. On several occasions this led my mother to drink more heavily. Once it landed her in hospital in a foreign town (I still can’t work out how she got there) requiring stomach surgery.
- Rehabilitation. My mother went to rehab (twice – once as a private patient, once as a public one) but not because people around her “helped”, only because she determined it was time. She called this “me time”. We (her children) went to family counselling as a show of support.
- External support. She has dropped in and out of AA. She has also spent many years in therapy with a psychologist.
- Dry events. As adults, we took away temptation at family events. She always had a back-up in her boot/bag so still managed to drink.
- Financial assisstance. She has received a disability pension for many years on account of being an alcoholic.
My mother had/has all of this available to her. So do most people suffering from addiction.
She still drinks.
Please, I beg you, *how* do you pragmatically propose society rides in on a white horse and fixes these sort of problems? What additional services must be offered beyond what has already been accessed? What further obligation, after 30+ years already, must I have has an individual? How much more money? How much more time? When does the duty of care begin, and at what point does it end for you/me/society/the people on both sides of the fence judging/the addicted themselves?
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K, your comment touched me. I can only imagine what you and your siblings have been through and the strength you must have needed. I wish I knew the answer to your question.
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Thank you for your kind words Jayne.
I wish I knew the answer too
.
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I too have grown up with your scenario. I agree with everything you have said. Except I am not sure what your trying to suggest? That we must judge this mother and treat her appallingly?
I am not bitter or twisted over my history. The healing has been phenomenal in my life.
In my personal opinion, shame is not always a bad thing. What is terrible is if we close the door on someone who is struggling.
My suggestion is this- Yes. They did make mistakes. Some that were incomprehensible. We do not condone this. But when they are ready to get help we are here with open arms to support them.
t
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I am not bitter or twisted either nor have I even remotely implied that we treat the woman in the article appalling. Not at all
. I offered my background as context.
I seek real life helpful suggestions as to how to support in such situations based on many contributors to this piece imploring us to do so. I posed my series of questions as a starting point.
Here’s some more*: What does “when they are ready to get help we are here with open arms to support them” look like? In a true sense? Does this mean making yourself available to listen? Driving someone you know to AA meetings? Minding their children on a regular basis? Volunteering for strangers at a local half-way home for people who battle addiction? Making financial donations to support groups? How do we help get people to a point where they can see they need to address their addiction? Is this even possible?
In short, what does “help” look like?
* legitimate non-factious questions
. I make that statement given we are commutating via a limited medium and my tone and facial expression cannot be factored in.
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K – your words could be about my mother! I had goosebumps reading your post as our experience is so similar. I know exactly what you mean about family events too; my sister even planned her wedding around mum’s alcoholism by having ‘dry’ reception and a huge focus of the day was monitoring mum to ensure she couldn’t get alcohol (didn’t work of course). My mum also had resources available to help her if she wanted to get help (she didn’t, as she never would acknowledge she had a problem, but ironically she claimed benefits as an alcoholic) and she also had a very supportive family (probably too supportive as it enabled her to continue this path). So much help and support was available to mum to overcome her addiction but she chose not to. Thanks for your post, you’ve expressed it in a way I want to say but couldn’t. x
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Have you tried Al-Anon? It’s like AA, but for family and friends of alcoholics. Teaches you how to deal with alcoholics, to help them without enabling them, etc.
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That is an excellent post K. So there really are quite a few avenues of help available for an alcoholic in our society. (I was quite relieved when you listed them all, after reading so many posts where people keep telling us we need to ‘help’, whatever this generic ‘help’ is, as if there’s nothing out there already). Sad to hear your mum still drinks after a lifetime of it. Your questions give me pause for thought.
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I just cannot fathom why someone who was 6 times over the legal limit would get in a car with their children. It is just so incredibly irresponsible it is just beyond me. Practically speaking, why would this mother just not tell the children to catch the bus home? That’s what the buses are there for….to take children home from school!
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You clearly have no idea about the way an alcoholic thinks. They don’t see themselves as incapable of driving. In fact, they think that they function ‘better’ with a few drinks under their belt. It’s incredibly naive to simply say she should have asked her kids to get the bus.
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Do you disagree that it is irresponsible to drive your children whilst 6 times over the legal limit? Or are you saying I should make an exception in this case because she did it regularly?
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There is no doubt that drink driving (with or without children in the car) is incredibly irresponsible and dangerous. To say to anyone with addiction should “just recognise what you’re doing and take the right steps to keep those around you safe” shows no understanding of addiction. They can’t see the bigger picture. They don’t think that they’re too drunk to drive. So to suggest she should have told her kids to catch the bus doesn’t even enter the equation.
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I get what you are saying about addiction. Unfortunately I have experienced what it can do to people you love. What I am saying though is that to me, whilst having an addiction might explain the drink driving, it does not excuse the drink driving or mean that the perpetrator should be held less accountable. Holding someone accountable for their actions even when there are mitigating factors does not have to be a bad thing. Realising there are serious consequences might be a step in the direction of making sure this doesn’t happen again.
I just feel so sorry for her children, I can’t imagine they have had an easy life.
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I find this piece so egocentric and narrow-minded. You can see what she was doing is wrong, therefore, she should too? You clearly have NO understanding of addiction and its ripple effect.
There’s NO doubt that drink driving is wrong. There’s no doubt that alcoholism is a phenomenal problem in our society. There’s no doubt this woman needs help. However, how does this article help solve any of these societal issues? All it does is bring the high-and-mighty out of the woodwork to talk about this woman and her faults.
Don’t you think she knows? Don’t you think her family have tried to help her? I shake my head at the pompous women at the schoolyard gate saying they knew she had a problem. What did they do? Did they go out of their way to assist this family, knowing that there was an issue of alcoholism? No. Instead they judged.
If you REALLY want to make a change, get off your soapboxes and find someone to help – today. Don’t sit behind the safety of your computers and spit hate at a woman who is clearly in trouble. Get off your butts and make the effort to do something.
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If they did know she had an alcohol problem, did anyone offer to drop the kids home? Or did they just sit there and think how amazing they were because they’re not drinking and depressed. THAT’s the danger in judging. You come away thinking you’re an amazing person with no faults, and you fail to see that you have areas which need significant change also.
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Exactly. Judging her and telling her what a ‘bad mother’ she is achieves nothing. What would have achieved something would have been offering to take her kids to school, reaching out to her in helpful ways..
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Driving her kids around is not helping her. Thats just allowing her the freedom to stay home and drink more, with a 6 month old baby in her care. She clearly doesnt care about her childrens welfare.
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Okay, I completely agree that some actions are simply “wrong” and sure, you can judge people for doing certain things that are unthinkable, dangerous etc.
But my problem with judgement is this – what is the point? Who is it helping? Do you think it’s made this woman’s alcoholism any better now that Mia Freedman, a well known figure, has publicly slammed her? I’d say it’s made it worse. I agree that reading the article I thought “Why are her family not helping out? Why is her husband not taking responsibility?”
But then I thought, for all I know she hasn’t had a drink for a while, he’s left her alone for an hour and she’s taken off and it’s ended in tragedy. No one really knows. So yeah, she did a bad thing, a terrible thing. But she is clearly struggling, and you haven’t helped anyone by coming out and judging her, because you believe you have a right to.
So call me naive and utopian, but I don’t want to judge people, whether I “can” or not.
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It seems to me that this post’s topic is “why and when is it ok to judge people” rather than being a post about bad parenting….
1. I know for a fact that drink-driving mothers is a rampant phenomenon in Australia and therefore is a subject that should be discussed if only to remove the taboo on it (removing the taboo will lead to finding solutions).
2. I also know that a large portion of Mia’s audience is comprised of mothers which makes me think that a few of them might identify themselves directly with the woman who crashed her car.
3. I know that Mia manages a blog and therefore has no obligation to act for the benefit of the community. She has the right to cover any story the way she wants to cover it.
4. If this is an issue she truly cares about, I feel that her blog could have been used as a great tool to raise awareness of the issue by engaging with the parents affected by this drink-driving syndrome…. thus removing the taboo… and thus encouraging people to seek support and help for their issues.
5. Several psychological studies have proven that the more you label someone, the more they are likely to become that label…. because they end up believing that that’s who they are and cannot change it. Encouraging change would be, in my view, a much more effective thing to do (for the parents at stake, but ultimately more for the kids) than pointing the finger which undoubtedly will encourage the same bad behaviour but will also force the perpetrators to hide even more.
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In the post and the 362 comments so far I’m not sure I’ve seen more than one or two instances of actual suggestions of help and support that could be reasonably offered. Perhaps that’s where a future post could go – having gathered information on the sort of support systems available in situations like this, the legal implications that may arise from making a notification, etc (if there are none, we don’t need to worry, do we? Except of course for social implications).
Mamamia.com has the resources to do at least some of that research and then share it with this community. Individual posters don’t, so much. (Imagine ringing your local DHS office and saying “Hi, I read this scenario on a website and I was wondering… no, really, read this on a website.)
It seems to me this would be a helpful direction to take from this point.
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you seem to have had the same reaction as I…. see my post above
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Until I was 16 this was my mother. She frequently drove drunk. My sister and I had no choice but to not get in the car with her, we were kids.
Eventually when I was 16, she was pulled over and was breathalysed at 0.25. The frightening thing was that she had just called my Dad and he said she sounded somewhat coherent, she had been much worse.
The sad thing was we all tried so hard to stop her from driving, my Dad disconnected the battery, took keys, but she started hiding cables and keys. My sister and I tried to prevent her from leaving.
But thankfully her being pulled over and losing her licence for 12 months horrified her. She continued to seek counselling from an actual drug an alcohol counsellor, went into rehabilitation and has been sober for 6 years. I only hope this Mum will take the lesson from her car accident and better her life for her and her family. My love and support to all of them.
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I definitely agree about judging. To add to that though, let’s talk about jailing. You said, “The judge thought it would be more helpful if the man helped care for his severely disabled son rather than going to jail”. What I feel is important to note in all of these cases, is that there are underlying psychological reasons for their actions. Yes, some of us who suffer from similar conditions wouldn’t drive drunk with our children in the car, or shake them til they are brain-damaged. Everyone copes differently. Those of us who can function have a responsibility to others to help them out, to make sure they can cope. Or learn to cope.
In all of these cases, I would say, jailing is totally irrelevant, harmful, and, basically, bullshit. A mental health system, that worked, or even bloody existed, would help. Any actual commitment to said mental health system, to the education of these parents, (in terms of how to care for children, how to care for themselves, how to function) and to the future of the relationship between parent and child, would do wonders.
In any team, when one player is sick or injured, the others pull a bit more weight to help out. Why aren’t we, as a society, doing the same for people who are sick with mental health issues. Why do we simply push them aside, separate them from families, totally disregard them. I think that is more judgmental. And I am ashamed by it.
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I felt the same yesterday reading the comments online and in the newspaper about the man who threw his 2 year old off a bridge before jumping off himself. There were all these comments about what a great guy he was and how everyone loved him. Not a word about the mother of the child. I thought it was wrong. He did something terrible and the day after we are writing articles about how lovely he was. I think it would have been better to state the facts and leave it at that.
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Her actions were terrible. She did the wrong thing. When sober, she will most likely be horrified….as are we. BUT it is her actions that are terrible, not her. I hope that their lucky escape from potential tragedy will give her and her husband the chance to navigate through these ‘demons’ and get the help they need for their family to function at a higher level. I understand the anger but is it helpful?
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I agree that she shouldn’t have been allowed to get behind a wheel with a drinking problem, particularly with a baby in the back. But rather than judging her, or her family, I think this is a reflection on how poor mental health services are; that support was NOT available to her & her family.
Alcoholism runs in my maternal family; my mother refuses to drink & I am glad I don’t feel the pull towards alcohol. But I know it is an addiction. It is an illness. Right now, she is not a “good mother”, but that doesn’t mean she is a “bad mother”. It doesn’t mean she won’t always be a “not good mother”.
But reading all of this makes me feel so very sad for the family; the mother, the children & the husband. & I don’t think we should judge her. That’s her family’s problem to deal with. I don’t even know how the media managed to get such a story.
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Ellla, your comment is expessed so well and I agree with you 100%
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How do you know she was not getting support (I refer to K’s excellent post above)? She may be on the receiving end of many of these areas of support, presently with no success.
Yes, it’s very sad and concerning on many levels, but if someone is driving on a public road in the middle of the day when they are 6 times over the limit, that is not only her family’s problem to deal with, and this is not a private matter. At a basic level, it’s a problem for every one of us driving on that same road.
So if people are angry about this then they also have a right to be.
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This is exactly how I feel…
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Ok my comment has probably been said already but if the woman’s depression was that bad that she would be so manic or reckless to do something like that and endanger the lives of her 3 kids than she should have been hospitalised involuntarily a long time ago!! Saying that, as a nurse (not a psych nurse) I do believe that the health system is failing psychiatric patients. Seems to be a vicious cycle of hospitalising them, medicating and then out again to start the cycle over in a few months. This tragedy highlights the need for more adequate care which focuses on the long term health of mentally ill people.
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Are you pious ‘don’t judge’ people kidding me? Next you’ll be saying not to judge the ‘poor’ pedophiles of the world. Go back to your basket weaving and leave law & order to the grown ups please.
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Jo, good analogy. I don’t know why some posters here say to judge the actions, not the woman, as it doesn’t mean she is a bad mother, rather she needs help and understanding etc etc. If a pervert tried to hurt a child, would they then be applying the same logic to that situation?
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Totally, totally agree, think you have both hit the nail on the head here! Having had to identify a friends body, who was killed by a drunk driver I feel nothing but anger towards this woman, and the fact that she is even able to endanger her children in this way! I have grown up with alcoholism before anyone jumps on the “You don’t understand” bandwagon……….Let’s focus on the real “Victims” here…those poor children, god only knows what they have been exposed to. Remove them from her care, jail her until she straightens herself out. End of story.
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I think this space would be better filled with the “perfect” father who threw his child over a bridge.
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Hi Mia, I agree with everything you have said and I applaud you for your honesty. Drink driving is something that I have no tolerance for, I just can’t understand not only do drink drivers put their own lives at risk but in this instance her own children and other kids too. Only hope this is a wake up call for her and thankfully no one was hurt.
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I wonder, what good comes from us labeling this women as a “bad parent”? Do we get to sit back and feel good because by comparison we are good?
I’d certainly agree that it wasn’t a moment of good parenting. I have been in a fair few accidents while my father was drunk at the wheel. Being an alcoholic doesn’t make my father a bad parent. Although, I do consider him one (and I think I have the insight and personal experience to make that call) because even after the 10th incident like the one reported…his habits didn’t change…
Some of the people in our community were aware. My school was and he was actually banned from school property and not allowed to pick me up from school. (There were other aspects of his behaviour that also came into play there).
…”for the protection of [...] children we must judge parents who aren’t anywhere near up to the job.”
And then what? What good came from the judgement of the community upon my father? … Kids never came to my birthday parties, parents would often say derogatory things in my presence about my family, and as a result I didn’t feel I had a safe adult to talk to about these things. It felt like people were watching me, waiting for something to prove the effect of my “bad father” to justify their judgements.
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That’s a very good insight Keira… “then what?”, shouldn’t we be discussing what the wider issue is here rather than pointing the finger at one perpetrator with no real outcome? The wider issue being that there seems to be a prevalence of drinking and driving amongst mothers….a fact we have heard about in the media countless times, that people who get caught drink-driving are not the ones we imagine (reckless teenagers, truckies, tradies) but often are part of the supposed responsible segment of society (mothers, fathers, people with highly regarded roles in the community). So, what do we do? Sit back, watch it all happen and judge? Or do we judge the phenomena at large and take some positive action to uncover the real problem and address it appropriately?
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“Being an alcoholic doesn’t make my father a bad parent.” Keira, if you have “been in a fair few accidents while my father was drunk at the wheel” then I think he is a bad parent. Just like my mum, who was nice and funny as a person, but as a parent she also put the lives of my siblings and I in danger by drink-driving and other acts. For many, many years I defended my mother and tried to focus on the good aspects of her parenting (eg she was always there when we came home from school; she always gave us the freedom to do what we wanted) rather than the bad (eg she was always drunk when we came home from school; she always gave us freedom to do what we wanted because active parenting inferred with her drinking). The love of a child is usually unconditional and for me, the smallest caress on the cheek made up all the forgotten meals, dirty clothes and lack of involvement in my life. Today my mother is full of apologies and regret for what we went through. However, she doesn’t blame herself at all, as according to her it is the fault of everyone else such as my father who “worked too much & didn’t help out”, us kids who were “a handful”, the “interferring doctor” who tried to get her help but stressed her so much she “had to drink to block it out”. I love my mother and always will, but as a parent she was a failure. It really really pains me to say that but it is the truth.
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Wow, thanks for this insight, Penny. I see exactly what you mean….
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I guess I was trying to make the distinction… the alcoholism isn’t what made my father a bad parent, it was the fact that he never got help and endangered our lives does.
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completely agree with Mia 100%. GO MIA GO!
I feel so sorry for this woman, but I’m also judging (condemning?) her. What if it was your kid she had hit and killed with her car? Would you all be so ‘don’t judge her’ then?
yes we don’t know what she’s been through or the reasons she got into the car, but the fact remains that she did what she did. There was a choice to get in that car and she made that choice.
We all judge. Little things and big things. Most of the time we don’t act on it but we still do it1 Anyone who says they don’t is either Jesus or they’re telling a fib…
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Alcoholics do not make choices. The operate as though in a fog through which nothing is clear except that they need another drink. They do not think clearly or logically. I am not sticking up for alcoholics, it is just a plain, hard fact.
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The best choice an alcoholic parent can make is to get someone who is not an alcoholic to care for their kids. From someone with an alcoholic parent that was too selfish to do it, yet could think logically enough to get funds for alcohol
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Did you go for the Alan Jones blend for your tea this morning Mia?!
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You know, that’s exactly whose voice I heard when I read the article. Alan Jones. Yuck.
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more like miranda devine maybe today
mia seems like she is pretty good at urging the public to judge other women. it is an easy story inflaming the emotions of people – driving up the page views – driving up the comments – is it ethical? would she say the same things to faces of the women if she ever met them in person – these other mothers?
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Mia, Mia, Mia. I know you’re a smart woman, and thats why I find this post so offensive. If you’d been an uneducated idiot, I could have excused your lack of objectivity. But you’re not. As a journalist you’re taught, trained, have it drummed into you actually, that you MUST be objective. You must present both sides of the story and above all, you must leave your personal biases out of a story.
Now I realize you didn’t go to uni. But you’ve been working in the media long enough to know better. I also realize you’re not The Australian or The Daily Tele, you’re a website that comments on the various trials and tribulations of the day-to-day. But for the – how many page impressions, unique browsers and so on do you sell to prospective advertisers now? – tens of thousands of discerning consumers of you’re website, you are the media.
As I said, I know you’re a smart woman, so that’s why I’m disappointed that rather than comment fairly on a situation like this where, aside from one news story, you have no other knowledge of the circumstances, you took the rather appalling route of essentially denouncing her and her family and friends as the root of all evil, and everything that’s wrong with society.
At the end of the day, Mia, what could the woman’s husband do? What could her friends do? What could the other parents at the school do? What could any person make another grown woman do? Hell, what could any person make a 16 year-old do? Drag them forcibly, against their will to rehab? That won’t work. I mean, for christs sake, if it did maybe Whitney Houston would still be alive. Or Amy Winehouse. Or Kurt Cobain. Heath Ledger, Janis Joplin, or any of those greats and the many unknown poor souls we’ve lost due to substance abuse and depression. But ultimately, unless its court ordered (which thanks to this incident it may very well be) unfortunately, dragging someone off to rehab is futile given they won’t hold them there involuntarily.
So, no, we shouldn’t judge this woman. And we shouldn’t judge those around her. I hope
Mia, you’re never faced with the situation this woman’s family and friends have been trying to deal with, because it’s an impossible one. And if you ever are, I really hope there isn’t a woman out there with a laptop and a means to judge you for your shortcomings just because she can, urging the public to judge you.
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“Now I realize you didn’t go to uni.”… what’s the relevance of this?
We shouldn’t judge a drink driver, however its OK to judge people on whether they are tertiary educated or not?
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Here’s one thing her family and friends could have done- taken away her bloody car keys! And yes, I judge – because I am one of the many people who end up looking after these poor children whose parents are clearly not up to the task!
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I have a foster brother. His biological mother was addicted to heroin and subsequently died of an overdose. His father – a similar story, his bilogical sister – well at 27 her son too is in foster care. In truth, she was a horrible mother who loved drugs more than she loved her son. That being said, publically condemning her would achieve nothing. It wouldn’t have hurt her, it wouldn’t have made her stop using heroin, but it would have hurt my brother who has to live with knowing that despite how much my family love him, he is the son of a woman who, though she loved him in her own way, didn’t love him enough to put the syringe down.
Please don’t tell me about having “to look after these poor children”. I am one of them too. But I can manage a little humility. Before you have the woman hung, drawn and quartered thanks to this trial by media, maybe you can stop and think about who you’re really hurting in all this.
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Thanks Ang. You’ve articulated my gut feeling on reading this. There’s so much more to a story like this and I feel it’s quite unfair of Mia to personally victimise like this. Discuss the issues involved of substance abuse, depression and whatever by all means – but don’t presume to have all the answers or the case verdict.
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Ang, it seems you’re making a whole lot of judgements about Mia.
It’s not ok to judge one woman on her behaviour but it’s ok to judge another for writing a story on it?
Double standards.
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She’s a journalist. A writer for a public forum. That’s my point about university. At university they drum into you that objectivity is a MUST. Not a maybe, not a sometimes. A must.
Of course, university isn’t necessarily conducive of objectivity, but as a journalist it’s essential. I know she didn’t study journalism at uni, but she’s worked in the media long enough to know that, so regardless there’s no excuse for her lack of objectivity.
Having said that, I love Mia. I’m constantly in awe of where she has taken this website, but I can still completely and utterly disagree with her handling of this story.
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Hi Ang – I did journalism at university, although it was some time ago…. this, to me, is an opinion piece, which is different to straight news reporting. Disagree or agree with the opinion, but no point arguing that it’s not objective
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This is an opinion piece Ang xx
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The statement that this is an opinion piece is becoming a little worn out as an excuse for public ranting.
Mia’s website belongs to her but her writings are thrown out into a public forum. She has a right to say what she thinks and feels but also a responsibility to account for all the factors in the situation such as the aetiology and behaviours that occur in people with depression and alcoholism.
Have an opinion by all means but be realistic about all the factors of the situation which you are opining about. A balanced, educated opinion which is well-thought out and considered is worth so much more in a public forum than outrage.
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Just setting the original commenter straight about misplaced sense of balance. Opinions are rarely balanced. It is what it is: a debate starter. Disagree as much as you want, but it’s not a news report.
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oh Rick, you only have to read some of the posts here to find that a balanced opinion is not such a rarity
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I think it is double standards that mia is so scathing of a woman struggling with alcohol when she calls a section of her website the ‘wine bar’.
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Oh, and just incidentally, though my under developed uni comment enraged a few (I was not being an education snob by the way), no one as yet has been able a hazard a guess as to HOW you make a grown adult do something, though beneficial, against their will?
I ask this honestly, as it really does seem like the million dollar question, doesn’t it? How do you make a person see their erroneous ways when they’re clearly in denial?
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You don’t. The person themselves is the only one who can do this. It usually takes a crisis for them to start seeing the light at the end of a very long tunnel. Who knows? – maybe that is exactly what has happened to this woman as a result of this accident.
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Hi Ang,
Mia is writing an opinion piece here. Do you know what an op-ed is? Read it in the NYT for instance. It is not the same as a balanced piece of news reporting.
My favourite academic is Donna Haraway. She teaches a programme in philosophy of science at Uni of California, Santa Cruz. She is also one of the most left wing academics around. One of her arguments is that social discourses have become too “radically relativist”. She defines radical relativism as a state where we are not “allowed” to judge anything any more. She argues that we should judge, we cannot be apolitical; our arguments are from a position of where we are (she talks about the body a lot, embodied arguments), we must have a viewpoint and should be able to see it. For instance, the belief in human rights being inviolable can only come from a position where we say we have a viewpoint, we judge what is right and where boundaries are.
I think that on balance Mia’s argument is in keeping with this.
- we must have a viewpoint
-we should not be radically relativist
-children have human rights
-the mother needs help and we as a community have a duty to help her.
This sounds like a well thought-through argument to me.
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Maybe you don’t. But you also don’t allow them to be in sole charge of children. Ever. Step up people and protect those kids.
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Is a university degree a requirement for objectivity?? Just a tad hypocritical.
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Ang, sorry, one word…hypocrisy
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“Now I realise you didn’t go to uni’????
It’s fine to disagree with Mia, but I would like to remind the pious ‘judge not lest ye be judged’ brigade that you might want to disagree without bitching about Mia’s class and educational background.
Another commenter on here made a thinly veiled comment indicating that Mia should keep her nose out because she was from a privileged background. Now she’s a thicky because she didn’t go to uni.
Make your case and keep your bitching out of it.
And what could the friends and family have done? Well, if the husband knew his wife was pissed during the day he could – and should – have made alternative transport arrangements for his children. That’s number one right there.
Oh, but it’s too hard. Boo bloody hoo. Tell that to the families & friends of people who were killed by drunk drivers.
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Could’t have said better. Wake up Australia! Stop your sniveling and grip you balls in both hands and say WE DO NOT ACCEPT THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOUR. I judge her and her family for not considering the lives of these children above all. What is wrong with society that it accepts this. Yet all you do gooders here are quite happy to judge and attack Mia. Pathetic!
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Wheee look at us all judging each other for judging each other or judging each other for not. I think I’m going to be hearing the word ‘judge’ in my sleep tonight
Whichever side of the judging debate you’re on, I applaud you, Mia for starting the conversation and sticking your neck out to be judged for judging (!) The point here, surely is that we all agree on one thing- what happened to this women’s & the surrounding children is horrendous. So let’s have a look at how it happened. Where on the timeline leading up to this could the future have been altered? How? The answer to that is surely that at some point in time, someone (the mother herself, the father, their friends or family or neighbors) could have spoken up. But very few people do speak up, even when it comes to these things- the most important things, the life and death things and the welfare of our babies. Why doesn’t anyone speak up? Every comment here is an example of why. Because people fear they’ll either be judged or they just plain don’t have the courage to judge and then act.
I agree with the comment that said let’s stop throwing stones but let’s look around us and see who is heading in this direction. Who needs you to speak up for them? Whether you are judging or not, I think the take-away from this is that we need to not only speak our minds but DO something- anything proactive to stick up for our babies instead of worrying about what people will think of us for it.
“All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to *do* nothing.”
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She may be a good mum mostly, but this was a stupid decision (to drive drunk) and I’m sure not the first time. If her alcoholism was well known, she shouldn’t have had access to the car. Or be looking after kids by herself. That said, I feel for this family. They’ve dodged a very large bullet and I hope they get the help they (mostly the kids) need.
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What has been achieved by publicy condemning this woman on a public forum? Do you honestly think it will deter parents from acting irresponsibly? Mia, this article is nothing but a rant.This story would of been better handled by someone who is qualified to talk about the complex nature of addiction. A little bit of compassion goes a long way.
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When I was 13, my life was endangered when my mum, an alcoholic who at that moment was in the grips of psychosis, took me in the car while she was paraletically drunk and enraged. During the car trip we ran off the road and she made threats against the lives of myself and my family members.
Does this make her a bad mum? A bad person? I have come to belive that no, it doesn’t. My mum made some terrible terrible decisions and did some bad things, but that doesn’t make her a bad mother- it makes her a mother who did some bad things. And, you know, there is a difference. Don’t get me wrong- this incident caused me a lot of pain and trauma and took a lot of therapy to get over. But ultimately, I have forgiven.
While I believe in personal accountability, there are a lot of other people who could and should have acted before it ever got to that stage. My dad, who turned a blind eye. Friends, who knew she had a drinking problem. People on the night who saw her driving drunk with a kid in the car but didn’t do anything about it.
As a society, we have a responsiblity to reach out to those who are in pain and not coping. And we have a responsibilty to do that not just to help that person, but to protect the children who are vulnerable. I wonder how many of those people who knew this woman had a drinking problem ever tried to reach out, to make sure she was coping or had support systems in place to cope with a new baby?
I understand the urge to judge. But I also feel there is room for a more compasionate, understanding and evolved society where we act, rather than sit on the sidelines and judge, to ensure that these situations involving the most vulnerable members of our society, children, are circumvented before the situation reaches such a crisis point.
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Beautifully put. I’m sorry you had to go through that. Agree with you completely.
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Agree mo. I’ve been where you have been.
Ironically, it’s judgement such as that in Mia’s article that makes the depressed, the mentally ill and the alcoholic avoid seeking help.
By all means, size a situation up and make your choices, but judging people who aren’t remotely capable of processing thoughts and making choices is just silly. I don’t know why that is so hard to understand.
And if you’re going to judge, you need to be willing to offer practical assistance, otherwise it’s the sound of one hand clapping.
Sad and disappointed that you felt you had to write this article, Mia
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Such an interesting comment, Mo. Your story is very relevant and I find your take on the issue of “bad decisions” versus “bad mothers” to be very thought-provoking. While I vehemently disagree with Mia’s viewpoint, in a way I am glad that it has provoked some spirited debate and inspired you to write your story and be heard.
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Interesting article. Surely our judgment has to be metered in some way or exercised in degrees? The law does. It says the judgment (and resulting punishment) must fit the crime. It takes into account intent, surrounding circumstances and the criminal act. Surely your outright condemnation should be reserved for the act (heaven forbid) of this woman actually having killed someone with malice and prior planning and intent. I’m not saying what this woman did was right or excusing what she did. Rather considering how we would have reacted if her 3 children (and others) had lost their lives. My take is that in a spectrum of judgment this deserves our compassion, active intervention – but not our outright condemnation. It could have been much worse.
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Know who I also judge? The tut tutting school mums who all “knew” she had a drinking problem – I wonder how many offered any form of support or intervention instead of gossiping about a troubled woman?
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Exactly. Why didn’t they work out a roster to take the woman’s kids home from school etc instead of standing by and gossiping about it?
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I agree with what you guys are saying – in theory.
But it’s not so easy to intervene. (Believe me, I’ve tried.)
There’s every chance she might have told the other mothers to f-off and mind their own business.
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Yes, I believe you about it not being easy to intervene – I have lived with alcoholics this covers every facet of their lives. However, all the ‘judging’ that is going on right here on this post is achieving the same as those who may’ve tried to intervene – nothing. The interveners are achieving nothing through no fault of their own, because the woman perhaps hasn’t yet acknowledged her problem & faced it for what it is. This post is achieving nothing because it is not moving the womans situation forward in any positive way.
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Sorry, passing the blame for this onto innocent people who are busy managing their own lives and families is ridiculous. I’m sure there are plenty of people with depression and alcoholics who know better than to risk lives by driving their kids around while pissed out of their minds. A roster to help out with the kids while she’s in psychiatric care is a good idea, but a roster for other mums who use their own self control to run around after her family while she stays home with her baby and gets sloshed? Thats nearly as neglectful as her driving around. She should not be left alone with her children.
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alcoholics don’t know better. They are drunk and cannot make irrational decisions. Even when sober an alcoholic is thinking where and when he can have a drink. It’s a mind fuck like anorexia, bullemia, depression, drug addiction, etc. its not just a matter of saying “fix yourself up”. its a lifelong fight.
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Bullshit.
My father went through his day in his respected job making totally rational decisions.
He made rational decisions to go to the pub after work, drink until almost comatose, drive home and cause chaos and destruction in my home.
Then he got out of bed the next day and went to work and did it all again.
He was perfectly rational. And he knew better.
Stop enabling these stupid, stupid people to get away with their crappy behaviour by calling it ‘addiction’. It’s not. It’s CHOICE.
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I agree KathyW. Why should people who live their lives the best way they can and look after their children with love and care, have to take responsibility for the family at school whose mother has no self control and chooses to drive her kids around drunk? Sorry if thats blunt but addiction or no addiction she makes that choice alone.
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Thank god Kathy! Someone who speaks sense!
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Love your thoughts Mia.
I thinks it’s disgusting the degree to which Australia’s legal and social welfare system put the rights and needs of adults above children.
I don’t care if the mother is suffering PND, alcoholism or whatever; it should not give her the right to put her children’s life at risk. That woman should not be left alone with her children until she sorts her shit out.
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What strikes me about this is, if you read the article on news.com.au other school parents commented that it was well know that she had a drinking problem or that they saw her slumped over the steering wheel and drooling. Why did no one do anything, say anything, check if she was ok to drive?
After applauding the yoga teacher who accused a father of abducting his own child, surely someone should be asking this question.
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Ah yes, we’re all so insightful now that this has happened, but who amongst us hasn’t turned a blind eye to things in our society that are problematic? We walk past homeless without helping, we know our neighbours struggle and don’t offer assistance, we talk about others’ parenting behind their backs (or, in this case, slam their lives in a very public place) WITHOUT ACTUALLY HELPING. We’ve all done it. And now this. Disappointing.
All this sitting on our high moral ground judging others’ actions does absolutely nothing to help. But this very public ‘judgement’ could be the undoing of someone. It could cause this woman to suicide because of shame. It could destroy their family even more than alcohol already has.
I wish this article would be removed. I don’t see any good in it at all.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
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Yep, yep, yep
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Totally agree ‘sad’, well written
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As I said above:
‘I agree with what you’re saying – in theory. But it’s not so easy to intervene. (Believe me, I’ve tried.)There’s every chance she might have told the other mothers to f-off and mind their own business.’
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I know it’s not easy to intervene, I have an alcoholic family member and we’re constantly stuck. It’s the elephant in the room. So many addictions are like this – it’s just so hard to get people to help themselves and accept help, especially when they are high-functioning alcoholics who still get through their days (albeit drunk). I just hope this incident is this particular mother’s wake-up call, and she can get and accept the help she needs
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Happy to admit I judged and and I still can’t believe she managed to function. To me this indicates long term alcohol abuse. I’m 5 ft 1 and never ever get in the car after one drink because One drink is enough for me to start worrying about reactions etc. hope the family receives help.
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“If her past were your past, her pain your pain, her level of consciousness your level of consciousness, you would think and act exactly as she does. With this realization comes forgiveness, compassion, peace. The ego doesn’t like to hear this, because if it cannot be reactive and righteous anymore, it will lose strength.” Eckhart Tolle
As a social worker I get paid to make judgement’s on a whole range of issues including a person’s ability to parent. I think there is a difference between judgement and condemnation. It is clear that this women made a very poor decision which placed her children, herself and members of the public at risk and she should and will face the consequences of these actions. This however does not mean we should condemn her as a universally bad parent or person.
When people say don’t judge her what I think they mean is please don’t condemn them as a universally bad person without at least attempting to understand how the person came to this point.
I use the above Eckhart Tolle quote all the time at work and at home when I am feeling disappointed or frustrated by someone.
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Hey Claire,
Thanks for your comment. I found it really interesting. You made a great point about condemnation vs judgement.
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Wow. I’m not a huge fan of E. Tolle but that quote is amazing. Nice add to the convo Claire.
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Thanks Tracy, I haven’t read a lot of his stuff but I found this quote and it really “spoke” to me. I have gone back to it time and time again it was particularly helpful when I had a very difficult boss who I could not relate to at all
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Excellent quote, lots of “likes” from me.
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Great point! I think that’s what 300+ commenters have been trying to say – they just didn’t say it as well as you.
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My comment got deleted too! What’s the point of commenting on this site if it will just get deleted?
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