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Mummywars What can we do to end the mummy wars?

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Perhaps the most enduring wars are fought by women. On Facebook and in Mother’s groups. At the gate at school drop off and over coffee in the morning. At the watercooler in the office and outside of boardrooms across the city.

It’s the war that pits mother against mother by comparing and belittling choices that we don’t agree with.

Mothers who work for a salary versus mothers who don’t get paid for the very real work of raising their children.

Battlefronts flare up regularly. Over breastfeeding vs bottle. Over vaginal vs c-section births. Over childcare. Over work choices.

According to an article in the Herald Sun today:

Nasty mummy wars erupting in cyberspace are leaving women doubting themselves, racked with guilt and feeling depressed.

Feisty mums are hijacking forums, websites and blogs intended to support mothers and turning them into battlegrounds on divisive issues, particularly the stay-at-home versus working mum debate.

Mia Freedman, editor/publisher of women’s website mamamia.com.au, said posts about motherhood often attracted the most inflammatory comments.

She believed much of the battle stemmed from insecurity about parenting decisions.

“Being responsible for another human life can be very very daunting … and they are secretly terrified of getting it wrong.”

Freedman said those who posted on her site were encouraged to use “dinner party” etiquette and engage in healthy discussion.

Read the full article here.

 

And last week, another Mummy Wars battle erupted in the US after a Democratic talking head and former lobbyist, Hilary Rosen, said Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s wife was unable to advise her husband on economic issues because she’d “never worked a day in her life”.

Journalist Jessica Irvine writes:

Ann Romney What can we do to end the mummy wars?

Ann Romney and husband Mitt

Ann Romney opened a Twitter account to complain: ”I made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. Believe me, it was hard work.”

And so the old catfight was out of the bag again, attracting a stream of online commentary, a prompt intervention by Barack Obama saying the work choices of candidate spouses were irrelevant and an apology from Rosen.

The mummy wars are obviously a simplification. And not just because the concept ignores the bulk of mothers who contort themselves on a daily basis to juggle family and work. It also assumes that women alone are responsible for their decisions and that they do so based on their innate preference for work or child rearing.

In reality, for many mothers, the decision whether to work is purely a financial one. And it is not a decision they make alone – excluding single mothers – but a negotiated outcome between partners in a relationship.

We need to think about families not as a homogenous unit but as a collection of individuals, who can be deployed in various ways to maximise the wellbeing of the family.

…For their generation, the Romneys probably made the best economic decision they could – with Ann looking after the children while Mitt sold his labour as a management consultant, eventually co-founding a private equity investment company, Bain Capital, which remains a source of wealth for the couple.

But for couples making the decision today about who should bear primary responsibility for domestic duties, the landscape has changed dramatically.

…The perception of mummy wars only plays into the stereotype of women as emotion-driven creatures who are out to get one another. This perception perpetuates one of the most dangerous stereotypes for all mothers – that they are forever transformed by childbirth into hormonally unbalanced basket cases.Decisions about work and family life should be respected for what they are – largely financial decisions about what distribution of labour will maximise a family’s income and wellbeing. It’s time to call a halt to the war.

You can read Jessica’s full column here….

It’s an interesting idea – that we should look at the choices women make about work and family as purely economic ones. But is it realistic? In actual fact there are torrents of emotion behind the decisions we make as women regarding our work and our families.

So is it a secret, niggling fear that we’ve made the ‘wrong’ decision that drives some women to attack the choices of other women so readily?

It’s not an issue that’s going away and it’s one that can only benefit from being aired and raked over – albeit in a civilised, intelligent way.

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So – we want to try and take a more positive spin on the so-called “Mummy Wars”. How women can support each other ? What can we do to bridge the gap between the mothers?

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217 Comments so far

  1. soyabean

    I think the most important question here is: Why is that woman wearing fishnet stockings in a corporate setting?

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  2. Carly

    I wish it was just the ‘mummy wars’ I had to deal with!!

    I am a full-time working mum and my husband is a stay at home Dad…… oh and then I went and took a job opportunity and shipped us all to the Middle East….. according to a lot of people I am the worst mother on earth!!
    If I weighed up the positive comments (legitimate not backhanded or snide) versus the negative….. oooh probaly 10% to 90% and I am not exaggerating.

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  3. Mel b

    Its your choice and you live with it. So it’s no one else business. For me its just easier to work around my husband part time, and be home for the boys for school.

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  4. Vee

    What can we do to stop the mummy wars? Stop talking about the mummy wars.

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    • green trees

      I’m with you.
      SUCH a bore.

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  5. Lulu #2

    Mt favourite quote of late is “What other people think is none of your business” It is sooooo liberating to not get caught up in other peoples opinions or judgements. As a mother myself I trust that the choices I make are best for me, my partner and my children. I have good intentions for all those around me and if people want to misinterpret me then that is their business not mine :)

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  6. Guest

    At the end of the day, I support any woman’s choice – to work, not work, whatever.. however, the one thing which annoys is when the ONLY reason to go back to work is financial.. very young children really need their mums, it’s just a fact, so why bring them into the world if you’re just gonna chuck them in child care and go back to your career? If you literally can’t afford not to work then you need to plan better – make a savings plan BEFORE you get pregnant and have some savings to live from while off work. Arrange a grace period of zero repayments for a time with your bank, learn to make cheap, fast meals, buy bulk stuff like nappies in advance when they are cheap, be smart with your cash. Trust me, your beautiful little bubba will be happier for it. Children are more important than finances. Be prepared to stall a little in your financial plans.. babies cost money. You can make up ground later on when they are more confident in the world without you holding their hand. Make smart use of your time out of work so you don’t start stressing how your career will be affected while you are away. We are smart ladies – prove it.

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    • Guest for today

      Wow this is naive. I went back to work when my baby was six weeks old. Why? Purely for financial reasons. I found out I was pregnant one week before starting a new job. Poor planning? I took a test the day I signed the contract to be sure however apparently my body clock is not ‘perfect’ and it was too early to tell. My previous employer offered extended paid leave. This one didn’t even offer unpaid leave. Eight weeks unpaid was the maximum they would allow. On top of that my husband left me when I was 8 months pregnant. It was go back to work or loose everything and starve. I went back to work. Is that what I wanted? Hell no. Am I proud of my decision. Yes.

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    • Mischybee

      By that reasoning very few people could afford a family. My mum worked full time. I work full time. My husband and I juggle the after school commitments and our kids are happy, healthy and well adjusted. How about we ALL lose the judgement. Choice is personal and what works for some won’t work for others.

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  7. Kate R

    Is it a war, or just an inevitable part of life – people saying rude, judgemental things to other people?I feel like it’s the latter.

    I’m sure all mothers out there have at some point copped at least a couple of nasty or snide remarks from other mothers about their choices or experiences but a war? Hardly.

    I agree with Mia that those judgemental comments usually come from the insecurity of the person making them.

    Characterising the interactions between mothers as ‘Mummy Wars’ might make a good headline but it doesn’t reflect the reality, for me at least. Sure, since becoming a mother I’ve received a few nasty comments and encountered some dificult characters in mother’s group etc, but have also gotten a whole lot of support and had interesting, respectful conversations with many other mums out there.

    Focus on the good, that’s what I say.

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    • Just saying

      Totally agree :)

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  8. michelle.

    these articles make me sad. my partner and i were considering trying for a baby this year but all the negativity etc has made me rethink this.

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  9. Anonymous

    I just started back in full time work this week and I have two children under four. I have felt very well supported by colleagues and family, particularly a wonderful husband. My reasons for going back are varied. However, I was shocked by one colleague who said that she couldn’t believe I would come back and I must be mad. When I mentioned my reasons (which are not entirely financial) she said to me, ‘Even still, should you really be back at work’. My lesson learned for the week is this. I will never again judge a woman on a decision she makes in regards to stay at home and working mother. Nor will I presume that I know why they have made the decisions they have made and I will never comment to anyone about this decision. My only comment will ever be. ‘Go for it!’

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  10. Mum of four

    Aaaaarrrrggghhhhh!!! When is this going to end?? I have four kids and can honestly say that I’ve never seen all this nastiness that the media keeps reporting. I’ve been a stay at home mum and now I’m a worker, soon to be a SAHM again. Many of the mums at my kids’ school work, many don’t. Many would like to work less, some more. That’s all there is to it. Who cares?

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  11. loves2bake

    My husband and I made the decision that I would be a stay at home mum until our kids were in school because we believed that it was the best thing for our children’s emotional/mental/etc well-being. We didn’t want our boys to spend a large part of their day with a carer who may or may not have the same values and prerogatives that we had. Plus, the relationship kids have with their mother is far more than just one of carer. While I would not make the same choices for my kids that other parents have, I don’t think that those parents aren’t good parents – I just think that we all try to do the best that we can, and a lot of these decisions are damn hard. Plus, we are lucky that we have that choice (although we had to make some financial decisions when getting a mortgage and with our budget in order for it to be an option). I’m only just picking up some casual work now because we need a new car with number 3 on the way, but my boys spend time with their grandmother and I don’t have long hours so it still works for us.

    One of the hardest things that I had to deal with was the realisation, fairly early in, that this is not a ‘dream job’ (well, at least not for me). It can be boring and monotonous, it’s hard when they are having an off day and sometimes I wish I could call in sick. But, that’s just like any job isn’t it? And in the end, I’m not doing this job because it is the most fun, but because I have a huge responsibility to do the best that I can for my kids. Plus, in a few shortish years I will have the opportunity to get back in my profession in a more permanent way. It’s really hard though when you read what some people think of SAHMs – we can be really undervalued members of society. But then everyone has their fans and critics I suppose.

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  12. stay at home mum of two

    I think it comes down to choice of friends – the have been many friends as a parent that I have lost touch with because we don’t value the same things, I now have a lovely group of mum friends from mothers groups, playgroups, kinder and school (some working, some not) who enjoy each others company and in most cases don’t judge each other. PS there was a great article on here about how the choices and dilemmas we face as babies toddlers (bottle/boob etc) won’t matter when they are ten – soooo true!!

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  13. liz

    25 words or less..It can be like this…but if you do what’s right for you and just keep riding the waves, it really doesn’t matter. Just be friendly, do your own thing and don’t join in any bitchiness.

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  14. Bec

    You know what’s funny?
    Teenage girls think high school is the bitchiest place they’ll ever be.
    Young female workers new to the work place think the office is the bitchiest place they’ll ever be.
    But really, those places are just training grounds for when you become a mum…

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    • Anon

      And that is just training for the school gate.

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  15. anon today

    I’m sahm of 2 boys. Some of my friends juggle work and kids and I totally realise the different challenges they face each day compared to my challenges. If you’re a mum, you’re a mum. That’s it.
    But when one particular friend comes over from her brand new house in her brand new car, holding a new guess handbag, dolce gabbana sunnies, wearing more billabong/cue/witchery etc clothes and ridiculously overpriced shoes saying “I have to work, financially I have to or we wouldn’t survive, you’re so lucky you don’t have to” (I’m wearing Kmart/big w outfit) I really wonder if her hard earned money is really helping their mortgage or family security.??

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    • Natasha

      It all comes down to what you value. I too value quality clothes. I take pride in my appearance. Sounds like your friend does too. So I dont see a problem with her working to enjoy the trappings of a good life.

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      • Lu

        I think the point here was the friend complaining she needs to work to survive, which is a bit of an exaggeration. Everyones idea of ‘surviving’ is vastly different. To some its being able to eat and to others its being able to have a BMW and Louis Vuitton handbag.

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        • Kateateight

          I have friends like this! Crying poor, lifes so hard, rising cost of living…

          I say – that’s no good. What are you having trouble affording?

          Well, I really want this Gucci Watch.

          ok. right.

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  16. Lu

    Babylove’s Robin Barker offers her words of wisdom on this in the Sydney Morning Herald Today. Its sums it all up beautifully and sums up my struggle with feminism.

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    • Phary

      Oooo! Great article! It sums up my thoughts on the subject as well.

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    • Junebug

      Interesting article. I was keen to read the comments re ‘father love’ or ‘parental love’ vs ‘mother love’. Are they really equal? Interchangeable? Is it just learned behaviour? If a man is raised by a father alone, would he call out for him when dying on the battlefield? Sounds extreme but it’s an argument made for ‘mother love’ – that when people are dying, they ask for their mums. Why?

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  17. Lia

    In the words of Miranda Hobbs (SATC) – ‘It’s your turn to try and not kill the baby’ and that is what I try to do – not at all fussed about what people say, think, tell me – if the baby is alive I give myself five!

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  18. Kate

    When will the ‘mummy wars’ stop? Maybe when women stop being judgemental bi-atches. Ha! To be fair I believe that most women are supportive of others and realise it’s ok for people to have different methods and opinions. However, you only need to read a few motherhood-themed posts and comments on this website to see the flaming that people are willing to unleash on other people who disagree with their point of view.

    Breast-feeding vs. formula,
    Natural birth vs. cesarean,
    Stay at home mum vs. working mum,
    Physical punishment vs. verbal punishment,
    and (my personal favourite) mothers vs. women with no kids.

    Everyone just needs to chill out! Do what works for you and your family and screw what everyone else thinks.

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    • Liza

      I had a natural birth but also had an epidural which apparently was a huge FAIL in one of my ‘earth mother’ friends that was already a mother.. I agree with your comment Kate – just do what works for you and your family!!

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    • rachael1260

      You’re right, Kate!

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    • liza71

      Well said.

      I am about to become a single mum by choice after using donor sperm. I am having a cesarean, not breastfeeding and will be going back to work full-time when my child is 4 months old. If anyone passes judgement or dares to make a comment they will be met with a very firm “It is none of your business and I don’t care what you think”.

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  19. Freedom101

    I went back to work after 5 months with both my kids and after four years of horrific work/ family balance had an accident that stopped me from working (not work related).

    So I have now been out of work for seven months now and now think – What was I thinking working all that time? What was I trying to prove?

    I was a crap worker and a crap Mum. Now I am just a great, very happy Mum albeit an uninteresting stay at home one.

    It took a near death experience, but I worked out what mattered in the end. FYI we sold our house and got rid of our ridiculous mortgage.

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    • rachael1260

      Freedom101,
      I’m so pleased to hear that you sorted it all out. I wouldn’t have coped with work and first-time mothering either. And financial pressure is so stressful!

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    • Kathy W

      Who says you’re uninteresting by staying at home?

      Believe me, there is no bigger bore than the person who rants and raves about how ‘tired’ they are because they’re at the office until 9pm every night.

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      • rachael1260

        Freedom101,
        Kathy W is absolutely right. Being a stay at home mum doesn’t make you uninteresting! I’m currently working full time and I’m sure my life isn’t any more interesting than yours!

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  20. Happy Mum

    I could care less about whether anyone I know had natural v c-section, Breast v bottle, works or not. Variety of all the above plus more in my social group and (maybe we are all self centered ego maniacs!) but just cant see any of us giving a hoot about what method the other has decided to adopt.

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  21. Sez

    I’m an ex-SAHM who nows studies and I couldn’t be happier – it’s my life and it works for our family. I’m also too bloody busy to worry about others’ decisions in their own lives, or their opinions of mine! And frankly, who cares?!

    I must admit though, I do hope for their sakes that I don’t end up in a nursing home with them in 40 years time – when I’ve got time on my hands and I’m senile enough to give a shit.

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  22. rachael1260

    Let me state from the outset that I haven’t read any of the comments below…

    I don’t think a few years out of the workforce for a primary care-giver is a huge ask for those fortunate enough to make this choice.

    Babies and toddlers really benefit from having their parents around.

    I have never vocalised this opinion out loud to friends or acquaintances because it seems to be an unacceptable viewpoint. Our society values the well-being of the parent over well-being of the child.

    I chose a lifestyle that wasn’t beyond my means so that I could take time out of the work force. It’s a sacrifice which has paid off for my children and for me because I see the results of my sacrifice. But my mothering is ‘flawed’ regardless.

    There are many, many people who don’t have a choice when it comes to work – people who earn a minimum wage. But for those who feel they don’t have a choice because their $700,000 mortgage dictates their actions, I wonder if they perhaps haven’t thought through their choices?

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    • Lu

      Well said Rachael. I hope your comments are respected.

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    • Happy Mum

      Im so happy your sacrifice works for you. I went back to work full time when bubs was 6 days old. Two years on, both of us couldn’t be happier. Each to their own I reckon!

      Ps: your very last sentence just might be the kind of comment that fuels the ‘mummy wars’ btw….

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      • Kathy W

        Rachael 1260 – I agree with your last para. I was due to go back to work when my son was six months old – due to mortgage commitments. I thought I ‘had no choice’. Well, rather than subject my baby to 12 hours of daycare while I worked two hours away, we made a choice to sell the house and move to the country, away from our ridiculous ‘lifestyles’.
        It was our choice. I refused to be dicatated to by a mortgage and have had no regrets whatsoever.

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        • rachael1260

          Kathy W,

          Hi! Wow! I did a similar thing! I was renting in the Eastern suburbs during those first few years of mothering. And I’m so glad I didn’t have the financial pressure to work through those first few years of my girls lives. When my youngest was 1.5 years we moved out of Sydney to the Tweed Valley. It’s beautiful and we finally got a mortgage. But it’s tiny compared to what we’d be paying in Sydney.

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      • rachael1260

        Hi Happy Mum!

        Go girl! I completely respect your decision to work!

        I’m sorry that the last comment is touchy. I really wasn’t trying to condemn or criticise. Just pointing out that sometimes living in a consumerist society leaves us feeling like we don’t have a choice. One day at my Eastern suburbs play group (when I wasn’t working full-time) a mother said to me, “It must be nice to be able to afford NOT to work.”

        Yes, it was nice. And I was fortunate that I had a choice! As I said above, there are many mums and dads who don’t have a choice.

        But I don’t think the mother who made the comment had any idea that I could only afford to make this choice because I was lucky enough to have found a cheap rental in the area; I wasn’t bothered by using hand-me down prams, cots, baby clothes etc and I didn’t go shopping for myself anymore (who could be bothered shopping with a baby and a toddler anyway?)

        But I’m back at work and that part of my life is behind me. And as I pointed out above, my parenting is indeed flawed!

        I certainly have never debated this issue in the real world. I’ve no interest in ‘mummy wars’. I think we’re ALL trundling along doing the best we know how to do! :)

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        • Lu

          Rachael, the only reason I think your last comment may touch a raw nerve is because its the truth. I worked with a woman who raced back to work quickly because, her words, ‘I didnt want to have to resort to buying my clothes in Target’. Because she had a huge mortgage and something had to give if she stayed at home beyong 8 weeks and for her it was her high end fashion addiction. So she came back to work when her babies were very young. Which is really sad and she did have a choice but she didnt see it.

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          • Kateateight

            What a great way to say it – that some people can’t ‘see’ their choices.

            so true.

            The other day I had a man say to me that he wished he could have been the stay at home dad at the moment.

            And I was like – well, why don’t you do a year, then your wife do a year?

            and he was like – well, because financially that makes no sense

            to which I rudely replied “what price can you put on spending time with your kid?”

            to which he replied “well, when you’ve got a mortgage and three cars, and two older children, you have to think realistically”

            and then I politely shut up.

            But really.

            He knows what he wants – to spend more time with his baby son – but he won’t let himself have it, because he can’t see it as a ‘choice’

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            • Anna

              Kateateight, I have to say I disagree (respectfully!) with your point of view. My husband works in an industry where doing exactly what you have described is a total career killer. Men who have taken a year’s paternity leave never get and interesting role or promotion again, it’s sad but that doesn’t make it untrue.

              My husband loves his job, it’s what he’s wanted to do since he was a small child. It’s not a shallow job and one which gives him great personal and social satisfaction (he sees the products of his work daily, gets wonderful feedback from those affected by what he does).

              He has considered leaving, but his industry is so specialised that to change he’d basically have to go back to being a graduate. Some people would think that was worth it for a year with a young son, but what it would mean in reality is that we would never afford a choice of schools for our children, holidays. experiences and all those other things that make life rich and rewarding. So in our case, there isn’t a choice, and I think you’ll find most men would feel the same.

              Men feel the pressure of being the “provider”, and we need to recognise this as legitimate, not judge them for what we consider to be “choices”. To that guy in your office, the choice might have been spending time with his baby vs getting his older daughter braces, paying for his other son’s piano lessons and them all being able to visit nanna in NZ one last time before she passes away. Not a choice I’d like to have to make.

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            • rachael1260

              Hi Kateateight and Anna!
              You’ve both highlighted the role that partners take in what is being touted as “mummy wars”. Most people in this discussion forum seem to agree that the term “mummy wars” is a convenient media label. There are no “mummy” decisions without taking into account “daddy’s” or “other primary care giver’s” lives!

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            • Mooner

              I asked my husband recently: if we could manage financially, would he WANT to be a SAHD for a year. I always thought he would, because he loves our children and really interacts well, has endless patience and takes a keen interest. Plus he’s pretty burnt out from his high pressure, long hours job.

              I was surprised to see him hesitate. I reiterated that I was talking about a ‘dream world’ hypothetical situation where we would be no worse off financially. He said he probably would do it, but it would be a difficult choice. I was so intrigued why and he said “it would be kind of hard to explain in social situations”. So! There you go.

              This is a very ‘sensitive new age guy’ who encourages me to work if I want to, or not if I don’t want to. He’s not a cave man by any means. But he would find it hard to explain to the guys that he was a SAHD. A bit sad, and a demonstration of a sort of sexism that men feel.

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  23. Eleventy

    It is the ‘experienced’ mums who perpetuate and fuel the competitive commentary that the media now refer to as “mummy wars” – like the female world needs yet another derogatory pigeon hole. Experienced mums have only ever made me feel patronized with their “been there, done that, and once your child has broken you you will inevitably come around to MY way, which is of course the best way” attitude. My mummy peers, ie we all are first timers with a child of the same age, have never been anything but supportive. We are all on the same page, asking the same questions and worrying if we’re doing the right thing.

    What it comes down to is – and I know this is a big call – for mums of more “experience” (whether that be the age/s of their child/ren, or the quantity of their brood) to offer a listening, non-judgmental ear followed up with a statement like, “you need to do what works for you and your family.” Because who is qualified to say that their way is the right way when we are ALL SO DIFFERENT?!

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  24. Junebug

    I think it’s about feminisms – one seeks liberation through interchangable roles with men (paid work, bottle feeding, surgical birth), the other seeks liberation by removing constraints on what’s ‘uniquely woman’ (unpaid work, breast feeding, vaginal birth). Those who claim not to be feminists still cite feminist values such as equality and choice. I don’t think it’s an either/or between these feminisms just that, at times, they compete with each other. One woman feels the other is a traitor to the cause and setting back her struggle for liberation. Some women are purists on either side while others dip-in to each to concoct a recipe that suits them. Hence the so-called ‘mummy wars’.

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    • Lu

      My issue with feminism is that these debates solely focus on the needs and wants of women. Its taboo to question what is best, truly, honestly best for the children.

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      • Junebug

        Everyone wants the best for their children. That’s common ground in the “mummy wars” and neither “side” will win by trying to make such claims. It’s about something else above and beyond competing claims of what’s best for children.

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  25. Anonymous

    I really couldnt give a flying crap about the whole “mummy wars” thing.If I manage to get the basics right , you know like feed them , clean them and love them all of my failures (according to the mummy police) become irrelevent when my little one cuddles up to me and tells me I am the bestest ever mummy in the world , then I am clearly on a win, as she is the only one I am accountable to.

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    • Gracie

      Totally agree! The only people you have to answer to are yourself, your partner and your children. If you’re happy and healthy and they’re happy and healthy and you’re all doing the best you can then that’s good enough. We all make our choices based on our own unique circumstances and nobody has the right to judge us for it.

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  26. Anonymous

    I hesitate to say this because I don’t mean to turn this into a feeding debate (breastfeeding and formula are both just fine). But frankly, if you are breastfeeding a newborn, you cannot work. Unless my baby was especially hungry or especially slow, I just can’t see how it could be done. They feed ALL THE TIME. I read the economic arguments in the paper this week about how more men will stay home with babies now that women are earning more. But if they breastfeed (and women who breastfeed tend to be in this higher earning group, I think) I think women will keep staying home and end up with a stalled career, lower super, etc. I’m telling you… If men had babies there would be systems like work based childcare in place by now.

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    • Anonymous

      Just realised I didn’t really answer the question! I think women should stick together and work together to try to improve some of the support families receive (like good, affordable childcare) so that we all have genuine choices when it comes to parenting. Men have a role to play here too. We should all be on the same side.

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    • LauraS

      Women who are breast feeding obviously need some time off, but it’s the subsequent years that are the career killer. Having one year off is ok, but spending the next 5 years working part time, having to run out the door at 5 to pick up the kids etc… Is where the career suicide really happens.

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      • Flowers in the Spring

        And the unavoidable absenteeism that happens with kids also has an impact. Kids can’t go to childcare/school when they have the inevitable conjunctivitis/flu/chicken pox etc and that time adds up. And can unfortunately impact on the way you are perceived within the workplace.

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        • Anonymous

          Yes! Exactly… Whats the answer though? It seems so unfair it is so often a choice between children and career.

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    • Melsie

      Your last sentence – I couldn’t agree more.

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    • Anonymous

      I breastfed both my babies eclusively for 12 months after returning to part time work when they were 6 weeks old – I expressed, it’s not uncommon or all that difficult. I resent comments like this that suggest you need to stay home full time in order to breastfeed, it is negative and fuels judgemental attitudes.

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      • Anon2

        Just because you were able to return to work and continue breastfeeding through expressing doesn’t meant that everyone is able to do so. It simply doesn’t work for everyone.

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  27. marie

    TWO ideas to stop the mummy wars?

    Things we can do to stop this so-called “mummy war”:
    1. Get rid of the need to justify every decision you make as a mum.

    So many comments I have read in response to this article are of mums outlining their rationale for what they have chosen to do. You shouldn’t have to do that every time you tell someone if you are a SAHM, a working mum, breastfed, c-section, whatever.

    2. If someone tells you why they chose the path they chose, support them for it.

    Be their cheer squad. If they ask for help or advice, give it, but remember, everyone’s circumstances are different.
    There is no one “right” answer for everyone. That is what makes humanity so wonderful. We are all different and unique. Let’s celebrate that and welcome our differences!

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    • Nicole

      Agree completely. At times like these I turn to the words of Rumi, “Out beyond ideas of right doing and wrong doing is a field, I will meet you there.”

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  28. curlycarm

    My choice to stay at home was not an easy one. Basically the cost of childcare – most of my part-time income would go to childcare as I don’t have family close by to baby sit. We worked it out that I’d be left with about $35 at the end of the week once childcare and travel/car expenses.
    I went back to work after I had my first child and am now at home with my third and last child. Some of my friends are also stay at home but I have others who aren’t and family members who work and some of them make me feel guilty about staying at home. I’d actually really like to work from home … am trying my hand at writing … no success yet.

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  29. Anonymous

    Women are always very critical of other women. Mostly it’s because of their own insecurities. This isn’t a new thing, my mother was dealing with it when my brothers, sisters and I were much younger as well.

    As for returning to work or not, it is a very personal choice. Whatever works for the family and in reality, you’re not scaring you child for life either way. I’m sure these people would have far more to say if you couldn’t afford to put food on the table for your child because you DIDN’T go back to work but you needed the money.

    At the end of the day, people will judge you. Only you and your family know the real circumstances. Do what is best for your family.

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  30. MayaM

    I think the concept of mummy wars is a media beat up. As parents we all do things differently, from stay at home mum to full time working mum, breast, bottle, ivf, c-section, homebirth. All these things in my circle of friends with no need to judge or belittle or ram ideas down each others throats. If and when people dont agree and have a heated debate, is that really a “mummy war” or just parents (mostly women) talking about what they believe in and expressing their views? The whole “mummy wars” thing is just a jazzed up version of yelling out scrag fight, the media seems to rejoice in showing how women love to undermine each other. blah blah blah, its boring and I just dont see it happening in the real world.

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    • blu-k

      totally agree with you. While not all mothers I know get along, I don’t know why anyone would expect them to – they’re different people!

      The only time I encounter any mummy wars are in the papers!

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  31. Flowers in the Spring

    I feel at the very core of the mummy wars is the fact that after children parent’s lives experience a shift of such seismic proportions and compromise becomes the order of the day. Now we’re parents we run head long into the reality that we simply cannot have it all; we cannot have that amazing stellar career and spend every waking moment blissed out with our offspring. What we end up doing is making choices, based on our own set of circumstances, values and needs. And sometimes, when we’re not happy with our choices, when we we doubt them or we made choices we didn’t want to make, we become so vocal in promoting our choices to the point where it can seem like we’re denigrating others.

    Re the Ann Romney stuff particularly I agree yes, raising 5 boys is a lot of work, but I am alarmed that the man who may well be the next US President has said that a woman who has never drawn a paycheque, has never lived with the fear of how to make ends meet financially, will be his key advisor on women’s issues. That he thinks just because his wife is female she can speak for all women has me scared.

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    • K

      an intelligent comment

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      • Anon

        The comment wasn’t that Ann Romney had chosen to stay at home with her children after giving birth, it was that she had never worked. Ever. What did she do before she had children? Did she finish college and start popping kids out straight away?

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        • Flowers in the Spring

          She married very young, aged 19 I think, and though I don’t know how old she was when she first gave birth I do know as a Mormon she would have been expected to have children quite quickly (and many of them). Her faith would have required her to participate in various community and volunteer works but from what I’ve read she never, ever worked in paid employment, not even an after school job in high school.

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    • Seahorse

      Wow. “has never lived with the fear of how to make ends meet financially”. Seriously? You think SAHM aren’t involved in their family finances? How ignorant. And offensive. She is probably more on top of her family finances than her overworked always travelling politician of a husband. Who do you think opens their electricity bill and gets online and pays it? Who do you think budgets for and shops for their groceries week after week, watching milk prices and banana prices fluctuate? You want to see someone in touch with the economics of a country, talk to a mother of five with the responsibilities of a families chief expenditures. Not her politician husband.

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      • Flowers in the Spring

        Sorry youre offended and think I’m ignorant Seahorse but I think perhaps youve interpreted my comments not how I’ve intended.

        SAHM are absolutely involved in the family finances. My comments about Ann Romney never living with the fear of how to make ends meet financially was a reference to the fact she grew up in a wealthy family, married a wealthy man and has lived a life of economic privilege. She is very much of the 1%. I am concerned that despite the fact she’s never had to make the hard calls of which bills to pay (and which to put off till next pay), whether she can afford to purchase bananas AND milk etc Mitt Romney has claimed she’s his go to person for advice on women and economic issues. Ann Romney no doubt worked hard raising her children but given the extreme wealth experienced throughout her life she is not qualified to be the US Presidents chief spokesperson for women, particularly regarding economics.

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        • Lu

          Anyone who can run a home with 5 boys and a husband who is likely not home that much, plus manage significant health problems would have more clues about stressful family life, more time management juggles and have more get up and go than most families who have 2 kids and both parent around.
          All families are different and relying on any one persons point of view is going to ruffle someones feathers. Double income families who drop their kids off to daycare at 8am and pick them up at 6pm will never know the stresses of a SAHM who has her kids at home with her 24/7 without a break and vice versa. Thats life.

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  32. eme

    I would have loved to have gone back to work after the birth of my children. When I did my sums I would make about $30 a day after childcare was factored in. Unfortunately I had a job not a career. The decision to stay at home until the youngest was at school allowed me to study which gave me the opportunity to get a better job later on. It was difficult at times being a stay a home mum.People, usually other woman, were incredibly patronising or just horrid but most were supportive. I do not regret staying at home with my kids All in all it was a wonderful experience that I will always treasure. I do not know whether it was more advantageous for my kids or less? They are all ok, good, healthy and confident….most of the time. As are my sisters children and she went back to work when they were 6months old. I just wish there were more childcare facilities available. It is difficult, to live on one income. I support every mothers decision to work or not. Whether it be out of necessity or because they have a career and want to continue. Whatever we decide as females, regretfully we have a long way to go before we achieve full equality in the workforce (especially when it comes to superannuation don’t get me started) so we should try and take that into consideration and not fall into the mummy judgement trap.

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  33. AM

    what-can-do-we-to-end-the-mummy-wars?

    Stop reporting on it. People judge each others life choices when they don’t reflect their own. This is human, its not a new thing. What is bloody annoying is it is reported as a NEW phenomenon and a gendered phenomenon: When will these women stop bickering over stupid things? The more the media goes on about how women judge each other the more inferior women feel about their choices thinking that they are being judged by “other” women, nevermind they couldn’t identify these women.

    It is all a beat up, just like the ‘generation war’. Wait your telling me that the older generations think that the young generation is lazy, doesnt work hard enough and are silly? Colour me suprised.

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  34. Anonymous

    One of my facebook friends posted today asking other mums they’d felt pressured to breastfeed. About 10 mums responded incredibly postively, all claiming that everyone should do what’s best for them without guilt. This was an excellent example of the opposite of “mummy wars” – mums supporting and encouraging each other.

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  35. nicolemadiganeverest

    Although I think women are mostly supportive of each other, I agree that each group tends to place judgement on an opposing group due to insecurities and confusion about their own decisions.

    I must admit, I’ve had similar experiences to what Shankari talks about in this post

    http://www.mamamia.com.au/parenting/stay-at-home-mums-apparently-i-am-wasting-my-education/

    After having my first baby I left a full-time, progressing journalism career which I loved, to work freelance from home in order to be a full-time mum – and I too have felt that vibe… The one that makes you feel like you’re wasting your education and experience, are a bit non-feminist and that you must just be the type that LOVES domesticity. Absolutely not the case for me. I miss work. I love interacting and using my brain.

    Often I envy mums who have gone back work. Some working mums probably envy those in my position – I realise I’m fortunate to have made the choice I have.
    At the end of the day though, we’re all doing our best. There’s always another option, we can only try to choose the one that we feel works best for our families.

    The parenting choices we make don’t define us. And we shouldn’t let them.

    But I do also agree that most of us wouldn’t be giving these wars a second thought if it weren’t for the media and social media.

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  36. Guest

    I haven’t read all of the comments yet so I apologise if this has been said already but speaking from personal experience I think that some of the criticism by working mums of stay at home mums stems from envy. This is particularly so when the working mum is bound by financial expectations (or husband’s expectations!) to have to go back to work full time.

    I am the approximately half time parent of three stepchildren and I work full time as a lawyer. I know it would be demanding being at home full time but working as a lawyer and trying to be the perfect stepmum is hard yards and I sometimes get jealous of women who (a) have the financial freedom to be able to stay at home and (b) have their own biological kids who love them. Okay I’ll stop there as may end up being a step mother rant! :) :)

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  37. Lu

    I read this in the Herald yesterday. I think its quite a simplisitc view of family life. Some families make their decisions solely on how they want their children to grow up. Some people had terrible experiences with their own mothers being at home or working and that has influenced their own choice. Finances has nothing to do with it.
    I think that there are the extremes in both sorts of mothers ….there are the stay at home mums who smother their poor kids and stalk them at school and there are the working mums whose kids look like they are in need of some TLC. I think most parents do their best. I think the problems though stem from motherhood becoming a competitive sport rather than a beautiful part of life.

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    • Angelica

      that mde me laugh ‘stalk them at school’. I don’t know any mums like that but I do know quite a few SAHMs who seem to spend most of their day talking about the most minute happenings at school.
      and I do agree with your comment about kids with mums and dads who both work full time looking like they need a hug. actually to me, they look like they need an early ngiht and a sleep in. a few I know always seem to have dark circles under their eyes from the constant late nights and early mornings.
      For the record, I work 3/4 time most of the time and it seems to suit me and my boys pretty well. i was full time last year with three different contracts and the house fell apart, we were all so tense and unhappy and making too many bad choices about food so I am happy to cut back a bit and manage the house a bit better, with the attendent sacrifices in finances and extra curric activities!

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      • Lu

        I’m sure every school has a few ;) They’re still in the playground half an hour after school has started, they admit to having a spy on their child at lunchtime and sit in the playground half an hour before the bell rings in the afternoon and bail the poor teacher up as soon as she walks outside…

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        • Flowers in the Spring

          Oh yes, they do. Mummy stackers are particularly prevalent in primary school and are incredibly stressfull to deal with. As teachers we want parents to be involved in their child’s education but there’s a line that, when crossed, goes from being involved in a good way to bordering on bunny boiling scary parent from hell.

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  38. BatGirl

    I can’t get past the fact Ann Romney raised 5 boys… I am exhausted just thinking about that!

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    • misswhisk

      I agree, I have one, that is hard enough.

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  39. Anonymous

    The mummy wars are just an extension the old school day bitchiness . Lets get on with our own lives mind our own business and stop worrying what other people think and we will all be much happier

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  40. Kellys

    Something I read about raising children said that when it comes to children’s behaviour it is ’10% their action and 90% your reaction’ that determines the outcome.

    Personally, I have found that this applies to life in general, not just raising children. I canot control what other people say, think or do however I can try and control how I choose to respond to it. I guess that what I’m saying is that I think that we have to look within ourselves to find that better way forward, not rely on other people to start acting differently. Besides, I think you have to take the good with the bad – I have received wonderful, reassuring words of advice from some mums that supported me at times when I needed it. I have also been on the receiving end of some unbelievably, breathtaking inappropriate comments about me, my children and my mothering – but have chosen to let those go (which is not at all easy sometimes).

    Honestly, people will always have an opinion – about the house you buy, your wedding, your pregnancy and your children – but you have 90% of the power about how it affects you. Thinking about it like that always make me feel stronger

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    • backagain

      Very well said, EVERYBODY will have an opinion, and the sooner we accept that, and develop ways to shrug the opinions off, the happier we will be.

      *for the record, I’m still learning, but so much better at shrugging it off than I used to be.

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  41. Ads

    I’ve only ever seen evidence of the mummy wars in the media. The women I know, some work some don’t, some bottle some breast, we all fully support each others decisions. We even learn from each others varied lifestyles. This “mummy wars” debate only tries to create a division and puts pressure on women that they really don’t need.

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    • AM

      Absolutely!!!! How to end mummy wars…stop writing articles about it. I

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      • Elspeth

        You’re lucky then. I’ve had many judgemental comments made by occasionally well-meaning, sometimes downright mean friends and family about parenting and work decisions.

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    • Sarah

      I have to agree! I’ve had nothing but wonderful positive experiences with the vast majority of other Mums I’ve met in my 4+ years of parenting.

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  42. Anonymous

    Where has ‘SometimesKaren’ gone? She hasn’t been around for ages… she would have good words of wisdom to share here.

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    • Flowers in the Spring

      Yes! I was only thinking of her the other day and of how much I miss her comments

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      • Lu

        And where is Danya Wellington? Is she ok?

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    • eternally

      She is on twitter. She said goodbye to MM in December, to focus on other things.

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  43. Jacqui

    I think the Mummy wars are borne of resentment, that women were promised the world like men enjoy and have since found it isn’t possible. That it is all Mummys warring and no Daddys tells us how little has changed in regards to the care of kids. Feminism gave women access to the workforce by using childcare as the substitute, which I believe most women really don’t like. If it had focused on men picking up the slack rather than childcare, women may well have been enjoying it all these days, with men making half the sacrifice when a babe is born. I think women feel guilty about working because they really don’t like child care, I mean who would truthfully believe that childcare is equal to the care provided by a loving parent? A worse by-product of it all is that we have now become accustomed to living a two-wage lifestyle so women are having to return to work to maintain this financial commitment. We are now dependent on childcare, whether we like it or not. Feminism needs to finish what it started and get men to start pressuring their employers for parental rights. If bubby was home with Dad, I bet the Mums would feel no guilt and their enjoyment of their jobs would be limitless.

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    • Elspeth

      You’re onto something here. My husband is a stay at home dad. He loves it, and I love working. And neither feels any guilt. Not that child are is bad – we’ll probably put our daughter into a few days a week as she gets older for the socialization and learning experience. We split housework evenly, and hubby cooks dinner most nights. I realize not everyone is so lucky or can afford it (we can’t – we live with the MIL). But it really really helps when both parents are in a partnership. I know that many women bear the burden of trying to do nearly everything – lots of men still regard their duty as being the breadwinner and therefore shirk many housework and parenting duties. Certainly makes it tougher for many women and an incentive for jealousy/judgement about others.

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  44. Caro

    I visit this site alot and am finding these topics are becoming a little tedious.
    Most of us agree that:- we’re trying our best, most women are supportive of other womens’ choices and we should always try to be kind and respectful.
    Can we move on and elevate the conversation?

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    • Anonymous

      Totally agree. This site thrives on debate and headlines like the one yesterday on the children living in apartments post are deliberately provocative.

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      • Miss B

        Nobody is forcing you guys to read. If you don’t like it, don’t come to the site, simple as that.
        But don’t come simply to be negative and pick a fight. Because, actually, you’re proving some of the points in the articles above: that sometimes women are just driven by insecurity and emotion and need to engage in arguing and putting others down to raise themselves up.

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        • Caro

          I wasn’t putting anybody down. Just trying to give feedback to the site moderators.

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          • Another Jo

            I thought your comment was quite reasonable and polite.

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            • Caro

              Thanks Jo. I was aiming for a reasonable and polite tone. I thought maybe it got lost in the journey from my head to the keyboard.

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            • Miss B

              I was referring mainly to the Anonymous comment and the obvious bandwagon mentality.
              I don’t understand what you want…boring headlines about boring topics? How would a website survive like that?

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        • Sue

          I’m so sick of the comments on here that say: “nobody’s forcing you to read it, just don’t come to the site”, if you dare to disagree with the dominant opinion or the author of the article. I find this much more negative than someone politely critiquing a topic or an article. These comments are a form of put-down, in my opinion.

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    • Lana

      Mamamia covers so much content. Sure we talk about parenting a lot – but that is what are readers want to talk about – just like they want to talk about fashion and politics and current affairs and the myriad of other subjects that we cover.

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      • b

        I think the point that Caro is making though is that articles like this don’t do anything to encourage mothers to support each other. Yes mamamia covers lots of things, but the way that parenting issues are covered does seem to encourage arguments and negativity.

        Lana if you are genuine about the question you’ve put above about how to put a positive spin on mummy wars and how to better support mothers, Caro’s point is valid – stop putting so many articles on here about mummy wars and stop feeding the negativity. I think there is a way to cover parenting issues without constantly returning to the same old “who is doing it better” articles.

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        • Anonymous

          BINGO!!! That’s exactly it

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        • Melsie

          So true!

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          • Miss B

            Yes, let’s also stop reporting about the war in Afghanistan, because then it will go away.
            Ignorance is not bliss, guys! In order for issues to be addressed, they need to be discussed!

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            • b

              You are exactly right Miss B. Fighting over breast vs bottle is exactly the same are discussing a war in which thousands of people have died.

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  45. tastebud

    I’ve been pretty lucky because I just don’t come across this kind of thing very often. Not first hand anyhow.

    But from what I have seen? I’ll go further than Mia here & say there are just some people who seem so insecure (or fearful, or both) they can’t make decisions for their family and just leave it at that.

    They have to make someone else’s parenting decision ‘wrong’. In an effort to justify their own choices. To themselves!

    Part of me feels sorry for anyone who may be that torn. But there is another part of me which finds it very irritating.

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  46. anony

    A while ago, my husband and I bumped into a work colleague of his at the supermarket and when he introduced us, her first question to me was ”What do you do?”. When I replied that I was a stay at home mum (to four kids) her response was ”Oh living the life of leisure, how lucky” and it was NOT meant as a compliment! I find it extraordinary that some working mums find those that chose to stay home are either ‘lazy’ or seem to think we are living a life of luxury. That is just as wrong as stay at home mums thinking working mums are selfish and ‘don’t care enough about their kids’ to stay home with them. Each to their own, do whatever is right for you and your family. What I do may not work for you and your family and vice versa, therefore neither one of us has a right to pass judgement!

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    • Elle

      For what it’s worth I found my paid-work days much easier, more interesting, more satisfying and generally more fun/enjoyable than the my SAH days (I worked outside the home 25-30 hours a week and had one child at home and one in primary school. I didn’t/couldn’t return to paid work after my third came along). My friend (3 kids, the youngest has just started school) calls her paid-work days her “day off”! It’s (clearly) in jest but I know what she means.

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  47. writehandman

    As a fairly new reader of MM, I have to say I am constantly surprised how much critical opinion is hurled at the people who contribute articles. At the risk of being called sexist, women can tend to be incredibly critical of views, techniques, ways of life, tastes, looks and practices, if they are different to their own. Men do not seem to do that. Sexist? Wrong?

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    • Jules

      Wrong I’d say, read any news site’s comments section. Full of men and women hurling abuse at the authors.

      If you’re in VIC then the comments that have come about from the Eddie Maguire – Mick Malthouse spat is a good example of male-on-male nastiness!

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  48. Laws for Clouds

    Yesterday, this article was in the SMH (it’s the second quoted article here, I’m not accusing anyone of plagiarising work) appeared along with this article, about how women have unrealistic expectations of child birth:

    http://www.dailylife.com.au/health-and-fitness/dl-wellbeing/getting-real-about-childbirth-20120417-1x4sd.html

    Maybe we should forget about the idea of mummy wars, and look at it as a way of sharing advice. Are we so busy being defensive, that we’re missing the kind, thoughtful advice that many offer with the intention of being helpful, not hurtful.

    As far as the Ann Romney situation goes, making a snarky comment about her skills (um, she’s not the candidate!) seems like a great way to distract from the issues of Planned Parenthood funding, abortion rights and equal pay in the USA.

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  49. *sigh*

    Here’s an idea: get off the net and try interacting with women in real life.

    Personally, I have never had a problem with any of the mums I know. There are some I like and some I don’t like, but I’ve never felt judged for the way that I parent. I honestly believe people are too busy worrying about their own lives to sit there worrying about what kind of job I’m doing.

    And I’m sure someone will come back to this and say, “Well you’re just very lucky. You don’t know what it’s like in my playgroup/kid’s school/workplace…”. To this I have two things to say:

    1. I’m a lawyer turned SAHM living in an apartment in the Eastern suburbs. And I resorted to formula. Plenty of things to tut-tut about there, but I just haven’t experienced it. And in the unlikely instance of people wanting to bitch about it behind my back, then so be it, because it won’t affect me.

    2. I’m generally very wary of women who complain about not being able to get along with other women. It’s somehow always about other people but never about them. In my experience, such individuals either have a chip on their shoulder and read way too much into everything (which is totally draining, so I’m not bloody surprised that they don’t want to be friends – who wants to walk on eggshells all the time?) or, to put it quite simply, are bitches themselves.

    Of course, I’m not saying there isn’t nastiness on the Internet – there is. However, you have to question what kind of person has time to sit there critiquing the choices of total strangers (get a fucking life, for Christ’s sake). And as I said, if you’re the one doing the reading, get offline!! Don’t give them an audience! And have enough confidence in your own choices to be able to dismiss their opinion as completely irrelevant.

    All in all, I think women should be embarrassed that we let ourselves be painted as catty and constantly at war with each other. I mean, why give men even more ammunition?

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    • emmabmumof3

      Love it. Well said!

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    • gypsy

      This is a damn good response

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    • MrsBrown

      Ahhh … the voice of reason. Thank you! Agree 100%

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    • CJ

      I agree with pretty much all of that… my child is only 12 months so I’ve not experienced the school gate thing yet, but among my mothers group, colleagues, friends and family (not including the MIL from hell) I’ve never experienced any negative feedback or sarky comments about the way we’re raising her.

      In fact, when I had to have an emergency c-section to save my daughter’s life, I had nothing but support… when I gave up breastfeeding after 4.5 months – nothing but support… going back to work part time and then taking a second part time job because we are struggling – again, support, good wishes, helpful advice.

      I don’t know who all these people are who judge other mothers, unless they are doing it behind my back under the handle ‘anon for this one’ on a site like this. Actually it was because of sites like this that I prepared myself for judgements from total strangers when I was feeding my baby with a bottle in public. Guess what – it never happened.

      The only thing that’s come close is the odd comment from confused old ladies because I’ve had my daughter dressed in blue (as per the twice-weekly gender stereotype article – still a subject close to my heart btw).

      However, as much as I’ve enjoyed reading and (hardly ever) contributing to MM over the last year or so (I started reading when I was pregnant), I’m finding that the articles on here are the ones that seem to pit us against each other more than any real-life encounter.

      I get so upset reading stuff on here sometimes and my husband, who is intolerant of the internet at the best of times, asks me ‘who are you talking about when you say “people say this and that”?’ and gets so wound up when I say I read it online. Now I’m starting to understand him, he wants us to just get on with it, stop looking for validation and worrying about whether every little decision we make is going to result in our daughter becoming a vacant, Kardashian-obsessed tart or a victim of society’s perception of what a woman should be before she’s even at school. As he says, we are good people with good values, all we can do is our best, and to try to instill the same values in her. We can’t control everyone or everything she is exposed to.

      Did our mums spend all their time online trying to justify their parenting decisions to total strangers? No, they just got on with it, with real life. I’m thinking I should take my (real-life) husband’s advice – less internet, more real life.

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    • Anonymous

      Totally agree with point 2. When I was a young teen I remember my mum once saying “people who don’t have any friends, don’t have any friends for a reason”. I thought it was a really mean thing to say and argued with her all night about it…

      But you know what? Experience has kind of shown her to be right. I don’t think it’s true of school age kids/teens but with adults i’ve met… Well, lets say it has proved to be quite predictive. Anyway, i suppose it still is a bit mean… You put it much better.

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  50. Mrs Woog

    Here is my tip.

    Do things that work for you and your family and pull your head in when it comes to other’s and THEIR choices.

    It works!

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