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MerylDorey The anti vaxxers and the court decision that will shock you

The AVN's Meryl Dorey

 

 

 

 

The Health Care Complaints Commission acted outside its jurisdiction to investigate, report on and then issue a public health warning against the Australian Vaccination Network (AVN) which is widely known anti-vaccine organisation, a court has heard.

The warning was issued after two complaints were received in 2009. One from Ken Mcleod and one from Toni and David McCaffrey, whose daughter Dana died as a result of whooping cough before she was old enough to be vaccinated. The complaints claimed the AVN engaged in misleading and deceptive practices in order to dissuade people from vaccinating their children.

The matter was decided on a point of the legislation and not the veracity of the AVN’s claims about the ‘dangers’ of vaccinations in public health. Nor did the judgment reveal the HCCC had made an error of fact in its public warning; simply that it was not allowed to make it. It has no immediate effect on the AVN’s other dispute with the Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing in which it is attempting to have its charity status restored.

That was revoked in October, 2010.

The case before the Supreme Court of New South Wales and Justice Adamson was broken down like so:

1. Whether the Health Care Complaints Commission acted within its power to issue a public warning based on the information it had to hand regarding the AVN.

2. Whether, as per the Health Care Complaints Act 1993, the AVN was deemed to be a ‘health service or provider’ and whether the information it dispensed affected the health or care of the community.

The AVN’s barrister Mr Abadee said his client accepted it was a health care provider – in that it was an education service – but said it could not be held to account because it was never aware of the personal medical circumstances of its readers.

“Let me put it to you this way, then. If a person is giving a university lecture on the benefits and disadvantages of vaccination but says those disadvantages outweigh the benefits and that measles and mumps are fine and needles will give your child autism, and somebody takes that information and then chooses not to vaccinate … would that constitute ‘directly affecting’ someone’s health,” Justice Adamson asked.

“There’s no dispute. That would be a causal connection,” Mr Abadee said.

“Well, say I have a child of vaccination age and I’m deciding whether to vaccinate and I read this statement on your client’s website and as a result I choose not to vaccinate,” Justice Adamson pressed.

“That is just information. It is not intended to be directed at people who need clinical management,” Mr Abadee said.

“But it doesn’t matter whether it was directed toward them. It just had to affect them. Why wouldn’t that affect a child’s care? It would, wouldn’t it?”

“Well, a mother’s decision is based on what she knows about her child…” Mr Abadee said.

“Isn’t that just a cop-out?” Justice Adamson said. “I don’t read any [AVN] disclaimer saying ‘don’t take any notice of what we are saying because we are not qualified doctors’. It doesn’t go as high as that.”

The AVN’s representation argued the HCCC couldn’t prove his client’s website had provided any information that had affected the ‘clinical management or care’ of any of its readers.

Mr Abadee first tried to rule out evidence from his client Meryl Dorey (who heads the AVN) in which she claimed the express intent of the movement was to influence and educate her subscribers and the general public into making decisions about vaccination.

As Justice Adamson put it: “It seems slightly coy that your client is so shy about admitting what it is on about.”

When discussing the significantly lower vaccination rates in the Northern Rivers of NSW [some 30-33% are unvaccinated, compared with national average of 10%], where the AVN is based, Justice Adamson asked whether that was due to the influence of the vaccination network.

“Isn’t that at least in part because of your client and her website,” she said.

“There is some geographical correlation in the inference the HCCC draws. But it is not clear how many of those made a decision to not vaccinate on the nature of the information from my client,” Mr Abadee said. “It could be word-of-mouth. The HCCC tends to draw a causal connection when there is none. In any case, we are not talking about demonstrable proof, your Honour. We’re talking about jurisdictional facts [whether the HCCC acted within its power to issue a public warning].”

“What if one person read your client’s website and decided not to immunise, would that be enough to satisfy [that a person's clinical management or care was affected]?” Justice Adamson asked.

“Yes, that would be enough,” said Mr Abadee.

Mr Abadee argued his client, the AVN, was worried about its reputation in light of the public health warning.

“Yes, well I can see how the public warning would cause some people to take a dim view of your client’s activities,” Justice Adamson said.

Arguing for the Health Care Complaints Commission, Ms Sharpe said it would be unbelievable if the HCCC did not take complaints made to it in good faith.

“If the stated objective of the AVN is to provide information to make people make decisions about vaccinations, it would be an extraordinary position for the HCCC to assume they had been wholly unsuccessful,” she said.

Ultimately, Justice Adamson concluded there was no evidence of specific harm done through the actions of the Australian Vaccination Network. Not that there wasn’t any at all, just that it hadn’t been brought to the attention of the court itself.

In her judgment, Justice Adamson wrote:

“In my view, the use of the words “the clinical management or care of an individual client” evince an intention that only a complaint concerning a health service that has a concrete (even if indirect) effect on a particular person or persons is within jurisdiction. Complaints about health services that have a tendency to affect a person or group, but which cannot be shown to have had an effect, would appear to be excluded,” she said.

“Although I find that both complaints concern the health service that the plaintiff provides, the health service has not been shown to “affect the clinical management or care of an individual client”. Although it might have that tendency, and although the plaintiff hopes to have that effect, I do not consider this to be sufficient to establish that it has had that effect.

“I do not consider the evidence to be relied upon by the HCCC to be sufficient that there was such a causal link, or that any link could be established in respect of “an individual client”. Had the HCCC apprehended that such would be required to found jurisdiction, it presumably could have readily obtained such evidence from one of the complainants. However, the ease with which it might have done so is not the test. It did not do so.”

The HCCC will likely appeal the decision.

If you are looking for a cheat sheet that dispels some common myths around vaccination, this is the only place you need to be.

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54 Comments so far

  1. PT

    http://www.beyondconformity.co.nz/sites-of-interest

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  2. guest

    http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/06/16/where-do-they-find-these-scary-statistics/

    this is a place to start.

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  3. Margaret

    So the HCCC doesn’t have the jurisdictiion to cry foul on an organisation providing apparent dodgy health information.

    So who does?

    Seems an organisation has the freedom to make any claim it wants, without any associated responsibility or accountability.

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    • Andy

      A quick look at the shelves in your local pharmacy should confirm that assumption. We have a federal department (TGA) that supposedly manages the marketing of therapeutic goods – but it readily allows the promotion and sale of magical nonsense as if it were medicine.

      And yet we’re supposed to believe our governments and courts are run by big pharma!

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  4. Peter Bowditch

    Here is Justice Adamson suggesting what the relevant legislation should look like. My feeling from being in court last Wednesday was that she really wanted to see evidence of an actual influenced person, something not required under the old (federal) Trade Practices Act but, in her opinion, required under the HCCC legislation.

    “46 If Parliament wishes to describe conduct that has a particular tendency, rather than having an actual effect, it can do so. Examples include the prohibition in the former s 52 of the Trade Practice Act 1974 (Cth) (now s 18 of the Australian Consumer Law) which proscribed “conduct that is misleading or deceptive or is likely to mislead or deceive” in respect of which it is well established that the actual effect of such conduct need not be established”.

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    • Kris2040

      It really seemed like she was pleading with them for just one example, from the story above.

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      • Peter Bowditch

        She couldn’t ask outright, of course, but she did say in the decision that just one example would have made the case.

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        • guest

          One example of a person who chose not to vaccinate based on info from the AVN? How will this help?

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  5. Contributor

    Before I write my comment, let me issue a little disclaimer: Rick, you are without a doubt my favourite writer on this site and what I’m about to say in no way reflects what I generally think of your pieces.

    I should also add that, as a mother of a 5 month-old baby, I am totally perplexed as to why anyone would be so fucking daft as to not vaccinate their child and am even more enraged that said idiotic decision could endanger the health of my precious boy.

    However…

    As a lawyer, I really don’t understand why this headline describes this court decision as one that “will shock you”. Really?? I mean, this is a pretty run-of-the-mill example of how administrative law works and what happens when a court deems that an administrative body has acted “ultra vires”.

    Having skimmed the judgment, I can completely understand how Adamson J concluded that, in the absence of evidence of a causal connection between AVN’s website and a particular person electing not to vaccinate, section 7 of the Act doesn’t cover the complaints made by Mr McLeod and the McCaffereys. Such a determination is not a commentary by her Honour on the merits of anti-vaccination campaigners, but rather a simple exercise in statutory interpretation.

    The remedy to this is, of course, is for legislators to broaden the scope of the section in question. I think this whole piece would have had a lot more purpose if you had concluded it by perhaps suggesting that people write to their MPs to express their displeasure at the way the current section is so narrowly worded as to allow the AVN to carry on with its silly business.

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    • Rick Morton

      It’s not the original headline we had on here C ;)

      And I *completely* agree with everything you just said. But to explain the reasoning, it’s not shocking because of the mechanics of the case itself (as I wrote it, it seems fairly obvious) but to the uninitiated who don’t follow the case or the subject generally (like many of my friends) they were shocked to learn the AVN had won as they just weren’t expecting that … but would obviously realise why once they read the body of the post.

      It’s merely a really short (has to be for space) shout out for those who might not know what the heck is going on. I’m not sure I just made any sense, but I tried.

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      • Kris2040

        It’s one of those “shocked but not surprised” situations, I think.

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    • Mish

      I’m not a lawyer nor a doctor, I’m an honours degree educated professional in another field. Having no medical background I initially thought that the AVN was providing useful advice. In my situation, I was vaccinated as a child and developed a severe reaction which saw me in hospital on a drip for a week. So perhaps you can understand me looking into it. This does not make me “fucking daft”, it makes me a parent who is concerned that my child may go through the same thing or worse. I think the AVN needs some definite disclaimers on its site, this is for sure. But my “idiotic decision” to delay my daughter’s vaccination is, I believe, valid. As is the friend of mine who almost died as a toddler several hours after a vaccination who is refusing her daughter be vaccinated. I can understand why.

      As it has turned out I have chosen to vaccinate my daughter very slowly, she had her 3 month vaccine and had a reaction so I stopped until she turned 2. She is 3 now and is due for her last lot of 0-2 year old shots next month. Did it open her up to more illnesses? Yes. Does it mean I have to watch her having needles more often than most children and it destroys me to see her in pain? Yes. It does. But I’ll be damned if I let her have a shitload of vaccines administered at once lest she be in the same situation I was. Not being in the medical field I have no idea if what I’m doing is right. I wish it was clear cut.

      Point is… almost no parent does this out of laziness or idiocy. We all have our reasons. And there are a hell of a lot of parents with no legal/ medical background wanting the best for their kids. The AVN website looks like its providing sound advice. I was able to wade my way around the bullshit. But for some new parents, this isn’t the case. These guys are VERY persuasive.
      Like I said before, they need disclaimers on their site. It should write “not scientifically proven” or “based on anecdotal evidence, not scientific fact.”

      Sorry to rant, but I get upset when people think I haven’t fully immunised my daughter on time for being “fucking daft”. I’m definitely not. And for the parents I know who have not immunised at all… they have similar reasons for not doing so (reactions in the family which led to severe illness and hospital stays). Its just not black and white.

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      • Kris2040

        Mish, have a look at many posts by anti-vaxers, though. They aren’t based on “I had a genuine reaction so I’ve worked it out with my doctor. They’re based on “I don’t like the vibe” or “We don’t see those illnesses here so I am against vaccination”. Or sundry other crackpot conspiracy theories and people wanting to stick it to the gubmint. Or Big Pharma. Or basing it on their chiro being able to do adjustments and give immunity.
        No-one has a problem with legit cases of not being able to/delaying. The genuine reasons like that are the reason why the pro-vax side says everyone who CAN get vaccinated should be doing so. To protect those who can’t.
        The AVN are very clever (well, not really if you know what you’re reading) about how they present information, and to someone who isn’t trained in the field can provide compelling stats, stories and campaigns to discourage people from vaccinating their kids. If it’s something you’re iffy about “just because”, the way the AVN and others present their info could certainly sway you. That’s why people are against them.

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        • Mish

          Yes, but I still get the disapproving comments even though I have a genuine reason to be cautious with my daughter. People can be so one sided. I had a reaction, so did my daughter, so I’m doing the best I can do. But I still get attacked for it. Its very true. And when she was born, having no medical background, I looked at many sites (I spent so many hours I can’t tell you) and the AVN gave me so many compelling reasons to not vaccinate. My point is, I am intelligent and educated and was able to sort through the information given… but not everyone has this capability. Therefore there needs to be disclaimers on the sites that the information provided is based on anecdotal experience, not scientific fact. So that people who are not as easily able to differentiate can have a clear cut explanation.

          And also, you say no-one has a problem with me delaying the vaccination of my child due to our collective experiences. In my circumstance, this is not the case. I have been judged on a weekly basis. I have been excluded from mother’s groups as a result. Luckily I have wonderful friends who understand. I do the best I can for her and I get shit for it. And this is where the AVN gets their support. I completely understand why women go that route when they have a history of vaccine intolerance. I just think that the AVN… as with any other medical site… needs to have disclaimers.

          And also its entirely inappropriate to call parents who have decided not to immunise their kids as “fucking daft” or “idiotic”. We just go by the best advice we can, and we all love our kids and want the best. I’m not a bad mother because I decided to immunise slowly, yet I’m often made to feel so. Realise that most parents do the things they think the best for their children. Therefore I feel sites such as AVN should be much more transparent than they really are.

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          • kiwichick

            congratulations

            no universal medication will affect everybody in exactly the same way

            well done for using your brains instead of following the flock

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          • Kris2040

            Absolutely! Why do you think Stop The AVN even exists???

            The AVN claim to not give medical advice and claim to not tell people not to vaccinate their kids, when they do exactly that. If people are excluding you even after you’ve explained, that’s silly. However it is law that if kids are unvaccinated they are excluded from school/kindy if there’s an outbreak of whatever they’re not vaxed for (for their health and safety as well as others) as I’m sure you know and understand, so maybe that’s where they’re coming from?

            It is pretty daft and idiotic to decide not to vaccinate if it’s based on lies and stories and a “sticking it to the man” or “big Pharma” ideology when it has been proven time and again to be wrong. Ignorance in itself isn’t idiotic or daft. Wilful ignorance in the face of overwhelming proof, however, IS fucking daft and dangerously idiotic.

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          • georginawilcox

            Thanks Mish for sharing your story — I think we all agree with you when you say that the AVN website should come with disclaimers.

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        • guest

          some people choose not to vaccinate because they have investigated vaccines and the vaccine program and they do not want to expose their children to an unknown risk each time they get a jab. And it is exactly that: an unknown risk. ask your doctor.

          there is information from around the world available to anyone who has a computer. it is ridiculous to think that stopping the avn will stop the exchange of information.

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          • Rohan G

            Unknown risk? No, the risk is known even if no precise figure can be determined from statistical analysis. Risk is about probability and measuring risk is an approximation. The risk in the case vaccination is KNOWN to be very very low. Much lower than the risk of the diseases vaccines prevent.

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      • Andy

        No one on the pro-vax side says there is never any reason to avoid or delay vaccination. Of course there are good reasons for such decisions and you seem to have some of them.

        However, the reasons do not include the idea that vaccination is rape, or that researchers are like paedophiles or that vaccines contain microchips and are used by a reptilian race of overlords for the purposes of mind control, with a view to committing genocide.

        This is the sort of information one finds if one hangs around AVN blogs and other social media fora long enough. It is the likes of the AVN and their more-rabid followers who make it difficult for those with genuine reasons not to vaccinate.

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      • Faybian

        Actually, you’d be surprised how many people there are that are too lazy to vaccinate their children…

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        • guest

          or too lazy to educate themselves on vaccine risk…

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      • Guest

        http://www.thinktwice.com/

        Hi Mish, remember it is your choice.

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  6. maggie

    Thanks Rick for keeping so up to date with this!

    I agree with JJ a small battle victory,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but they will loose the war.

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  7. Kate

    This is a disappointing verdict, especially for those of us who have been there from the beginning of Ken’s complaint, to today’s court verdict.

    I take a little bit of comfort in the way this has been reported. All major news networks who’ve done a story on it have referred to the AVN as “anti vaccine” in their headlines. Whilst the verdict is a disappointing one, I am mildly pleased that it was still acknowledged that the AVN are anti vaccine – not pro choice.

    All I have ever really wanted (apart from shutting them down) is transparency from Meryl and the AVN – and by transparency I mean I would just like them to openly admit that they are soley anti vaccination.

    The only thing I am not looking forward to is Meryl’s insufferable gloating in the weeks to come. She has already compared herself to persecuted Jews and Jesus, I doubt this is going to do much for her delusions of grandeur.

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  8. Andy

    Oh well. Given how useless the TGA is at regulating pretend medicine, it’s hardly surprising that another government “health care” department apparently doesn’t have jurisdiction to manage health care issues.

    I guess the next step is to lodge complaints with Trade Practices about the AVN’s almost-non-existent magazine.

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  9. tennis fan

    I do understand immunization is a choice. But when you contract a disease that is preventable you put the public at risk. There are people you catch the train with that are in remission for cancer and have a low immune system. Type 1diabetics who can suffer severely with a lot of these preventable diseases.
    New born babies who arent supposed to not be exposed to anything. Pregnant women, the list goes on. Wake up australia.!

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  10. Ahhh court work, how I MISS YOU.

    Here is betting that the lawyers for HCCC are a big firm and the poor solicitors (and probably their AAs) worked until midnight every night for awhile to prepare for this hearing.

    Rick, just an FYI, once the decision is published, you can apply for a transcript if you want it. They only cost about, oh $600(!), and every member of the public is entitled to apply for it. You just can’t republish it (being copyrighted and all, darn lawyers, so clever).

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    • Rick Morton

      Ha, I don’t have time to wait for transcripts! The judgment itself has been published, however, but it doesn’t include any of the exchanges really!

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      • In my experience, the only time obtaining a transcript is easy and quick is when you are actually in trial. Then they come through at about 6pm because the stenographer wants to go home asap!

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    • katherine anne

      Kinda random comment, but I love your legal expertise whippersnapper! It’s great to read an in-the-know perspective and I find it really interesting.
      Like watching Law & Order but in real life.
      :)

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  11. Dave The Happy Singer

    There is some very good news: as I understand it, the AVN did not successfully argue that the OLGR’s decision to overturn its charitable fundraising authority was dependent on the HCCC warning and that this decision needed judicial review.

    In fact, apart from the taking down of the HCCC’s warning page (the facts of which were not disputed) I fail to see what Meryl has actually gained from this whole affair.

    It’s a hollow victory indeed, but that won’t stop Meryl thinking she’s starring in The Castle II.

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  12. Serena

    AGGGGHHH!!!! I only have to see the words “anti vaccination” and I feel my blood pressure rise!!!!! Thank you so much Mia, Rick and all at Mamma Mia for your constant attention to this matter. Don’t EVER stop being heard!!

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  13. justvisiting

    Sounds like poor prep on behalf of HCCC’s lawyers!

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    • Doubtful. They would have briefed a mega-firm, and would have been working around the clock. All the prep in the world doesn’t mean your argument is going to win.

      I’ve done several trials where I have shed tears of sheer exhaustion and “why bother” when the result didn’t go my way after days of unpaid overtime preparing.

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  14. littleone

    Can you provide a link to the actual judgment? I can’t seem to find it…

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    • Dave The Happy Singer

      Here you go

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    • It won’t be up yet. Not sure about NSW, but Qld takes at least a week for judgments to be posted online.

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  15. auscrawl

    If the AVN are issuing blanket advice against disease prevention without full information of clients, then maybe they should just not call them selves a health provider..if I remember the details correctly, or regardless just BELT UP! Who funds these looneys?

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    • Kris2040

      Other loonies. Meryl often puts out the call for “donations” for fighting funds. Also she encourages people to subscribe to a newsletter that is supposed to be out every 2 months, but has only had 1 or 2 editions in the last 2 years. Stuff like that.

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  16. Marty

    “The HCCC will appeal the decision.”

    This. They might have screwed up their defence, but that’s what appeals are for. Good luck, HCCC.

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  17. anthonysherratt

    It’s especially frustrating as the Judge recognises the intent to mislead. *sigh*

    Well hopefully they will lose their battle to regain their charity status and the money will dry up and these luddite loons will fade away.

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    • nikki

      unfortunately these loonies will never go away…people will still read and believe their garbage and then where will we all be…back in the dark ages with nasty diseases getting spread at the rate of knots given out travel ways nowdays..:-((

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  18. Bec

    This is terrible news. Yet another thing for the AVN to take hold of and hold up as ‘proof’ that vaccination is wrong. It’s a terrible shame that their spin doctors will select specific parts of the determination to use to their advantage; a layperson will not know to read the entire judgement :(

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  19. Grrrr….I hate legal technicalities…sometimes justice doesn’t side with the morals of the issue…

    Minor victory to AVN…they will still lose the war….

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    • Rick Morton

      It sucks. And it kind of paints the HCCC as a toothless tiger with no power to investigate or make public health findings. If only it had brought specific cases!

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      • Thinks she knows

        Totally agree. People that are anti-vaccine are simply ignorant of the facts that clearly show that vaccination prevents diseases that kill babies and children and can eradicate these diseases if we ALL vaccinate our children!

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      • Kathy M

        its almost like Justice Adamson was fishing for specific cases. Pity the barristers didnt grasp onto that, but sometimes the bleeding obvious goes unnoticed. Hindsight is a wonderful thing

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        • Rick Morton

          From being there, you could tell she was kind of ‘facepalming’ asking, almost begging, for specific examples to make her job easier…

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        • She could have gotten her Associate to find some cases before she handed down her decision, irrespective if the barrister didn’t “catch her drift”!

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          • Zelicat

            I think she needed a parents/ guardian in there saying they chose not to vaccinate because of the information provided by AVN – demonstrable harm. Going to be tricky for hccc to prove that – mostly because it will be hard to find an anti- vaxer willing to assist HCCC. At least that was my quick reading of her comments… My experience is all criminal so civil litigation is a bit murky for me …

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  20. Flotsam

    :-(

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