Mia at work
by MIA FREEDMAN
This week, someone referred to me as ambitious and I bristled. It was said neutrally and without rancour but it made me uncomfortable. Later, drilling down into why, I realised that whenever I hear that word used there’s a negative subtext to it. Wait, whenever I hear that word used about a woman. In a man, ambition is a virtue but “She’s so ambitious” always piggy backs an implicit slur. It means she’s ruthless. She’s competitive. She’s calculating. She neglects her family.
Often, it’s simply code for ‘she’s a bitch’.
Ok yes, I’ve used it that way myself.
So am I ambitious? Yes, I guess I am. I love my work. I strive to succeed at it and I’ve always wanted to kick big career goals ever since I dreamed of being an editor aged 12.
But there have been blips.
For about 12 months after I have a baby, I lose my ambition entirely. Out it pops, along with the placenta. “I just want to spend the rest of my life at home folding teeny tiny socks” I once cooed to a girlfriend while lying on the floor gazing at my newborn daughter. “Can you believe how minuscule these things are? The size of thumbs! How do you even MAKE socks this small? Would there be a special machine?”
Teeny tiny Socks
At the time, this issue seemed fascinating to me.In those early days when I’m flooded with relief to be safely holding a healthy baby in my arms and before sleep deprivation turns me into a poltergeist, I am very mellow if slightly dull. Calm and dreamy. Totally focussed on my baby. Blissfully disinterested in the outside world. Endlessly grateful to my husband for providing his seed. In other words, totally unlike my normal self.
The first time it happened, after giving birth to my first child, I was taken by surprise as my career care factor plummeted to zero. Job? What job? Having sworn blind to my bemused boss that I’d need only a few weeks maternity leave, I was initially skeptical when she insisted I take four months. Really? But how would I survive without my job? How would my job survive about me?
And then I gave birth and fell madly in love. Game over. For a while anyway. Having worked full-time since I was 19, I delighted in the novelty of being home during the week and focussing on nothing more mentally taxing than trying to remember which boob I’d last fed on. Fortunately my mother – who’s always strived to combine work and family -reminded me there’s a big difference between being at home for a fixed period on maternity leave and being at home full stop, The End. “Don’t quit your job just yet, she urged me and thank heavens she did.
It’s like those people who holiday in Byron Bay and after a week start thinking about moving there permanently to open an organic juice bar. Holidays are different to real life. And so is maternity leave. Wait, can I please delete that analogy because maternity leave is NOT like a holiday. Apart from all that lying around the pool reading books while hot cabin boys bring you cocktails, maternity leave and holidays really have nothing else in common. Fact.
Look, for those who don’t wish to work after babies, I salute you but it was never my dream.
I love my work and even during pregnancy, I can never imagine being at home full-time. Then I hold a newborn in my arms and I become fixated with teeny tiny socks.
After experiencing this three time now, I’ve accepted it’s stupid for me to make any big decisions about work (or life) until my baby is around one.
The problem with this of course is that almost as soon as you announce your pregnancy, people start asking “what are you going to do about work?”
Hello, impossible question. Because who knows really. It’s impossible to predict how you’ll feel in those early months. Some women are surprised by the gravitational pull of a baby while others discover they’re not cut out to be home alone with an infant day after month after year. Then there are those whose babies have unexpected health needs or whose lives suffer other types of unexpected turmoil, throwing their careful plans to the wind.
In just one generation, there’s been a social revolution around when women return to work after having kids.
In the 80s, most mothers waited five years after having a baby before going back to work. In the nineties, this dropped to three years. And this decade it’s been one year. According to a recent report in The Australian: “Almost half of all mothers in two-parent families are back at work before their youngest child turns one, completing a social revolution than has seen the dividing line between home and career disappear in less than a generation.”
Social researchers point to two main reasons for the change: higher real estate prices mean two incomes are required to support a household. And more women are better educated and actually WANT to work.
I guess you might call them…..ambitious.
When did you or do you intend to return to work after giving birth? Would you call yourself ambitious?
Comments
145 Comments so far
I always feel guilty at articles like this.
I love my kids, and I love looking after them, but I was tearing my hair out with cabin fever. I have suffered from depression and anxiety for most of my adult life, and after my son was born, I found staying home made me anxious. Yet I could not face mother’s groups etc. because of social phobia and anxiety. I felt so alone, and like a horrible mother.
I was never the homemaker my mother and sister were, I wanted to get out and do things. I took my son on protest marches in his pram, I wore them and took them everywhere that wasn’t my house that I could.
I had to really concentrate on changing my mental outlook. I was at uni when I had my son, and I would get so upset that I couldn’t study or concentrate on assignments because he NEEDED me ALL THE TIME.
And then I realised, that was the priority. He was the priority. And everything else would come. I always felt like a failure because I literally had to train my brain to understand my life was on hold for a while, but only a while, not indefinitely. I had to train myself to be patient with the process, and not feel trapped by it.
It has been suggested that I had PND, which could be the case.
My son is now 6, daughter 4, and I am slowly completing my degree externally – so they will both be full time at school by the time I am job hunting.
So maybe we can have it all, but if we want it to be quality, we can’t have it all at the same time
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I want to return to work because I love my job… I’m a teacher and really miss talking and reading about History, the banter with teenagers and the unpredictable nature of it all – love love love it. The way I see it, its like wanting two full time jobs. I can’t imagine leaving my 8 week old just yet but I’m dying to get back in the classroom. Might give it a few more months though because those socks really are just so tiny.
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I love being a stay at home Mum, which surprised me.
After being told in my late teens that it would be unlikely that I could bear children, I was very career driven. I loved my job and when I found out I was pregnant (BOY was that a surprise as I was on the pill just in case as well!), I was sure that I would want to go back to work.
But 6 months turned into 2 years and I still have no desire to go back to paid work. It is a hard slog working at home! You have to be just as committed to your work in the home as a carer as you would with paid employment.
I take my work seriously (as in I am not just sitting at home watching Dr Phil), I make sure the house is clean, property is maintained and our child is cared for) just as my husband takes his job seriously.
I resent the whole ‘not being a good role model’ for my child because im JUST a SAHM’. I think it is just so nasty and it undermines who I am as a person. I am a wonderful role model for my son. I’m hard working, loving, have goals I work to achieve in my personal life, I just do this when I’m not toilet training or cooking tea. I have raised an independent, happy healthy, well-rounded toddler.
I surprised myself, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.
I say go with whatever you want. if you need/want to work, go to work. so long as you are a loving caring parent, that’s what makes a great role model.
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For me (I have a 2 year old and a 7 week old) it’s not so much about losing my ambition, but more about having no time to spend fulfilling it! It’s still there and burning but by the time I get both kids to bed following a day of colic and tantrums, all I want to do is lay on the couch and watch crappy tv.
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Mia, why would you need to write an article explaining the way you live your life unless you feel uncomfortable about it?
Why would so many women (below) need to tell everyone what they have chosen to do?
The only measure for happiness in life is your own personal opinion of yourself – if you are making arguments to explain your life choices to everyone else, then you have clearly not convinced yourself.
When you have convinced yourself, you will find that you no longer need to try to convince everyone else.
Good luck – you have a long road to travel.
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LOL I think you have entirely missed the point of the piece and they style of writing that the staff at mamamia do. I think Mia was writing about this as it is something that came up for her this week and she felt others would identify with it. That’s about it.
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What a strange comment, Kate.
So does that mean that any person writing about a personal experience is only doing so because they are uncomfortable with it?
Don’t you share stories with your friends, family and acquaintances as a way to share and connect?
Blogging is exactly that- sharing to connect with others.
I feel sorry that you are so cynical of others’ motives.
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Uggh, I wish I had an answer. My husband and I are in the midst of a lifestyle move to ‘the bush’ (an hour from Brisbane) and I’ve quit my job as the commute would have been too long. We don’t really need me to work due to the reduction in mortgage and we have an 18 month old, so we decided I’d be a stay at home mum a while. Now, it’s crunch time and I am frantically searching Seek for nearby opportunities instead. I am completely able to walk away from my career and spend my days finger painting with my beautiful girl, but I am finding walking away from all my years of study and career building a bitter pill to swallow.I spoke to someone over the weekend at a BBQ about my predicament (never a good idea) and was reassured ‘I could always get a part-time job in a shop’. Yes, I guess I could…
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I have no idea what kind of work you do, but it is often possible to work remotely these days, especially if you are self employed, home based office.
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That’s what I’m leaning towards. I work in communications so it’s not impossible… Just a question of finding the work, but at least – if I’m only doing a few hours a week – I’m still doing SOMETHING.
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There a few posts below where people have said they would feel uncomfortable relying on their husbands wage if they stayed at home. Without meaning any disrespect to stay at home mums, I agree there is a degree of risk involved in doing this.
Let’s face it, things happen that we don’t expect. Your spouse may lose their job, they may fall ill and be unable to work, they may die in an accident or you may get divorced (for whatever reason). It is possible to mitigate against some of these. You can take out income protection insurance and life insurance. Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s “divorce insurance”.
In my case, my husband had traditionally earned way more than me, and was against me going back to work until our youngest was at school. However, after 12 months at home, I noticed that his businesses weren’t going as well as they had been and I insisted on going back to work. For me, it was the smartest thing I ever did. Within 3 years his businesses went into administration and were living off my income alone. 12 months after that, we decided to separate.
I was lucky that my income was by that time large enough to support myself and my kids. I am in an industry where in your first 10-15 years your income shoots up very quickly. Those three years I had been back at work equated to an extra $60K per annum over what I had been earning when I went on maternity leave, and that increase was critical to my financial survival. I don’t know if I even would have been able to go back to a similar job to the one I left if I hadn’t gone back within 2 years.
I made the right choices for me, and they wouldn’t necessarily be the right choices for everyone. I guess what I want to say is that you should make sure you mitigate the risks (eg by having insurance where possible), and have a plan for what you will do if things don’t go to plan.
Also, make sure you are named as the beneficiary of your husband’s life insurance policies. Many work places include life insurance as part of the superannuation package. If your husband started his job before you met, there is a good chance that you are not his named beneficiary. I know a woman who recently lost her husband in a tragic accident. He named his parents as the beneficiaries to his life insurance policy, and didn’t change it after they got married. His parents have refused to give the wife any of the insurance money, even though she has two small children and currently no income.
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Ambition is not “often code for bitch”. Or a slur.
It will be now you’ve thrown it out there though.
Well done
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you can take any adjective in positive and negative tone. if someone is conservative with money, if someone is particular about details etc, but it is not only in the delivery, it is also in the reception. take the biggest slur of the modern era ; the “N” word. for generations we have used it negatively in tone and reception, now it has postive connotations, but only when the delivery and reception are in sync.
when it all boils down to it, political correctness is the just confusion in delivery and/ or reception. considering the way we communicate these days, its only going to get worse.
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Umm what? Yes, when referring to women, an ambitious woman has often been code for “bitch.” I’ve heard it countless times and I am surprised there is someone out there who hasn’t.
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I agree with Jess. Maybe a generational thing?
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I’m a little bit sad to hear that even you have used ‘ambitious’ as a euphemism for ‘bitch’. I really hope that it’s not as widespread a ‘thing’ as you suggest.
I don’t consider myself particularly ambitious, career-wise, anyhow; I think I have plenty of personal ambition.
But I’ve always admired women who are and when I’ve referred to them as such, then I hope it was taken with my positive intentions.
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Just wanted to say that the best advice i got when i had my kids was that you will come across plenty of “expert opinions” once you become a mum but YOU are the expert when it comes to YOUR child. So be a SAHM or a working mum whatever – but don’t worry yourself listening to other opinions on how “my children are so much better off because i’m a working mum” or vice-versa – thats about their kids – not yours!
As a SAHM though i just wanted to add that i read a few comments regarding “not feeling comfortable living off my partners wages” and someone likened it to living off a centrelink pension. Have to disagree with that opinion. We see it as living off of “our” income not my husbands. Just because i stay at home now to look after OUR kids doesn’t somehow negate all that income i put into our living expenses and our mortgage for the last 10 years when i worked full time!
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I agree! And if you are a family isnt it the families money ? If you give up your career to raise your kids, the child is also your husbands child too isnt it? You are raising his child!
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It depends on how you see things. For me, my money is mine, his is his and sometimes we combine our money for things that benefit us both. I could never live off of his money and vice versa. It’s not about trust or a lack of commitment, we’ve been together almost two decades and I’ve never felt less than 100% secure, but it’s not in my nature to be comfortable spending money earned by someone else. I didn’t even like it when I was a kid and my parents bought me things, I wanted to make my own money and buy my own things. I’m not happy unless I’m completely independent.
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I’m probably one of those people who makes comments about living off someone else’s income.
But I dont mean it in the sense that its his money, not yours.
My fear with the arrangement would be if something happened, whether its death or divorce, and I had no employable skills and no means to support myself.
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You could be hit by a car crossing the road too. I think its best to live for today not what might happen tomorrow.
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Given the divorce statistics, I think getting divorced is a lot more likely than getting hit by a car.
And you can call it family money all you want that doesn’t change the fact that your husband is the one going to work every day and making that money. There is emerging research showing that a lot of men end up feeling resentful in the long run for being under pressure to financially support the whole family while the wife/mother doesn’t work.
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I think it really depends on the individual couple, their jobs & the industries they work in. In my case, my husband works in banking & though I’ve had many jobs, I’ve not really had a profession or single career trajectory.
Me being a SAHM worked for us as we view our money as our family’s money, we began combining finances as a couple when we bought our house together. We have talked about whether he’d have preferred to have stayed at home but in reality we couldn’t have paid our mortgage & survived on my single income as we can on his. I don’t think he feels resentful but we communicate regularly & well about most things so I would expect him to mention it if he were.
Mind you, due to an unexpected death in my family, I was able to contribute the equivalent of about two years income to our family, thus reducing the mortgage significantly, so I expect this would also help to keep any resentment at bay.
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Me being the home maker and carer of our children has allowed my husband to earn far more money and progress in his profession far more than if I was working too and he had to reduce his hours to help with childrens responsibilities, school functions and home
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Being ambitious is nothing compared to being grateful for your husband’s seed. ewwwww. That is a word picture too far.
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Just to let you know there are quite a few mistakes, one in particular is the opposite of what i assume you’re trying to say…
Look, for those who don’t wish to work after babies, I salute you but it was never my dream.
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I have a 21 mo and just found out I’m 3 months pregnant. I am worried about the isolation I will feel being at home on maternity leave. I have worked hard to achieve a very good job in my field (the media) and have found that I’m more ambitious than ever after becoming a parent. The whole parenting experience has taught me to be more resilient, patient and focused. I know what I want and what I don’t want. The biggest challenge for me is the constant ‘stop and go’ at work that goes on with raising a young family. I wish I had more support in my workplace especially from other working mums, but unfortunately it’s rare in my workplace. I feel alone and often have to push my vulnerabilities aside and ‘brave up’ around the very ambitious who don’t have anything holding them back. When it starts to bring me down I remind myself that I have a lot to offer my workplace and being a mother/pregnant is not a disorder and I quietly laugh that one day all the super driven people around me may one day become parents and will learn the way we all do- the hard and sleep deprived way.
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Great comment, and I hope you find a way to make it work. I also found myself becoming more ambitious after becoming a parent, and much more focused and productive at work.
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Whatever keeps mummy happy is my mantra. Whatever that may be. Ditch the judgements we should be backing each others choices and respecting them. I worked my arse off in shitty jobs for 16 years before becoming a mum. With a couple of good financial decisions, my husband and I were well set up by the time I gave birth to our first daughter. I wouldn’t say my decision to be a SAHM is always fulfilling, for example I have missed adult company and social aspects at different times of this so called ‘journey ‘ but I have enjoyed the ride. Mostly. Once we choose motherhood, any subsequent path is complicated and bittersweet no matter how we get through the week but I am a firm believer in happy mummy, happy family and admire every mum making it work for her situation.
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Whatever keeps mummy happy is my mantra. Whatever that may be. Ditch the judgements we should be backing each others choices and respecting them. I worked my arse off in shitty jobs for 16 years before becoming a mum. With a couple of good financial decisions, my husband and I were well set up by the time I gave birth to our first daughter. I wouldn’t say my decision to be a SAHM is always fulfilling, for example I have missed adult company and social aspects at different times of this so called ‘journey ‘ but I have enjoyed the ride. Mostly. Once we choose motherhood, any subsequent path is complicated and bittersweet no matter how we get
through the week but I am a firm believer in happy mummy, happy family and admire every mum making it work for her situation.
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Totally agree with most of your comment – the only part where I differ is missing the adult company when stopping working.
My last workplace was too similar to the one Meshel Laurie describes in the harassment article this morning, so getting the #$%$ outta there has been a dream come true and I won’t go back. Sad but true.
Hanging out with a bunch of toddlers would be far more civilised company for me!
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I’m not sure why ambitious has been thrown around as a negative for women and as a positive for men. Possibly used as a term by others who have felt threatened by another doing a job well.
I lost my job when I was in hospital with my newborn and then offered a casual job for three months when he was six weeks old. When at the end of that assignment I was called in to a meeting to explain why I was being ‘ambitious’ as I had asked for more work to do. I then lost that position.
I get to spend more time with my son and I am studying also. Ambitious – Yes, Bitch – No.
Do your own thing. The doubters will always judge and spread their negativity. Just be you and ambition is what can make things happen.
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I totally agree with you Mia. With both of my children the week before they were born I was either applying for higher level roles or in the case of my second, planning for a national launch of my business. Then of course baby comes and my desire for either of those things melts. Almost to the day one year later I’m ready to get back to the ambition.
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Interesting post. After a 15 year full-time finance and banking career, including 5 years offshore working in many different countries, I had my first child at 36. I have been at home since. My second baby just celebrated his first birthday. I am now 39 and trying to decide whether we go for number 3 or return to work or both! We also did the “Byron” thing you refer to and bought a small farm up here. Loving it but perhaps missing the buzz of city/working life. I have always been “ambitious” or to do well at whatever I put my mind to or am experiencing at that point in my life’s journey – whether it be Brownie badges as a kid, playing hockey as a teenager, my HSC, me university and post-grad studies, my relationships with my friends, backpacking, my career, and now my family. Too often today, we assume that women must only feel or seen to be successful or ambitious in the context of a career, yet ambition can be felt and demonstrated in many ways!
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Snap! So great to come across someone on the same page as me. I could have written this exact post (well, with the exception of where we live and our ages). I have always striven to do my very best at whatever I put my mind to and have never wanted to be in a position where I have felt that I am not able to do that. Fact is, I couldn’t go back to the sort of job I was doing and still be the kind of parent I want to be to my kids.
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I know I am a much better Mum to my three girls as a working mum. They see me not as just ‘mum’ but a woman in my own right with aims and ambitions, and that ‘s ok. In fact, it was my birthday yesterday, and my 16 year old daughter wrote me a card and on it she said even though I was a bit ‘different’ to most mums she was extremely proud of me trying to make a difference where others do not, and I was her role model. Doesn’t get better than that.
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Jayneen, are you the author of ‘Some Secrets Should Never Be Kept?’
A topical subject. One can’t help thinking it would have been a more beneficial article than the transparently Catholic bashing one that got the nod.
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I am totally not cut out for the stay at home Mum thing, granted my husband would probably love it if I was a stay at home Mum. My house would be extremely clean if I did (or would it).
But for me I love working, I love running my own business and having something that is just for me. Outside of being a Mum and wife.
I adore my kids and am really lucky to have a mix of stay at home Mum on some days and working on other days. The mix of days between work and kids really help keep me grounded and some days I can be super ambitious with my business and other days I can chill and relax with my kids.
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You know what other part of being a working mother doesn’t get enough credit?
The example we as women are setting for our children – daughters AND sons.
Women can be educated. Women can achieve. Women can be and SHOULD be treated as equals.
If a woman wants to stay home with her kids, I really don’t care. Just as long as it’s a choice, not an expectation.
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And I also dont think staying at home caring for your children is being less of a role model or setting less of a good example than a mum who works.
Its always trotted out that working mums are being good role models and setting good examples for their children. My mother maintained her fulltime career and it made me realise that unless I wanted to spend a fortune on outsourcing and constantly chasing my tail that it wasnt going to be a lifestyle I could cope with.
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I do associate the term ambitious with personal career. Whilst the technical definition relates to a determination to succeed and that can apply anywhere, i think it is most commonly about careers. My sister is a highly committed (and bloody wonderful) SAHM, she is determined to be the absolute best parent she can. But she wouldn’t refer to herself as ambitious.
I was self employed with number 1 but whilst I was pregnant switched from the higher intensity work to less time demanding work. I didn’t have any time off and it was no drama. She slept well and I worked when she slept. This lasted til she was 15 months old with the occassional baby sitting when she went into child care three days a week.
With number two I was in a proper job lol. I took 7 months mat leave. What irritates me is when people question how much leave you are taking. I got a lot of ‘oh you’ll take more than that’ ‘well don’t lock it in’. I take mia’s point, but for me I was offended because a) i don’t work for fun. How the hell do you know I can survive on half pay for more than 7 months… and b) i know what i’m doing thanks. I know lots of women change their plan. One of my lovely managers this week just extended her mat leave and i’m really happy for her. i would never be so presumptious as to question the amount she originally applied for or the amount she is extending it for.
Reactions to returning to work before your baby is one are mixed. many women I work with (and the partners of men) returned at a similar time and they were great, ‘how is the child care going’ etc. Others kept said ‘are you back already. cripes last week you were heavily pregnant, where is the little thing’ (like I’d forgotten him or wandered out this morning and given him to a passing stranger).
I love my work. I felt wrong leaving little lad at 7 months when my daughter was older. But we are far happier house, all of us, with me back at work. It works for us. Its a financial necessity, but it also works for us.
Most people would call me ambitious. But I always feel like ambitious people have a plan and I have no plan lol. I like working, I want to do it to the best of my capabilities, when someone gives the chance to do something higher or harder i jump at it…so i guess that is ambitious. But i always think ambitious people should have some idea where they are going….and i don’t!
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Yep, I am passionate about my work ( and ambitious) and I have three kids. I love my kids more than I thought was possible (and a little bit more when they are asleep). I love my career. This year I studied part time and worked full time….my husband is awesome and does a lot of the sports runs and all the school runs. It works for us. Dealing with working mother guilt can be overwhelming, but I like the fact that my kids are growing up seeing both parents work and enjoy what they do.
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Not a mum yet and hopefully not for a few years yet
But it feels like I’ve known for a long time that I would never want to be a SAHM after my maternity leave is up. I’m not comfortable with living, to any degree, off another person’s income, as I’ve done enough of that when I was on Centrelink benefits for nearly five years.
So it’s not so much of an “ambition” thing. It’s more that I’m a firm (and maybe a little bit too idealistic) believer in each parent contributing 50% in all areas (in any situation where I was a parent, anyway). If that’s achievable by the time kids come around for me, I’d really like to try and go back to full-time work and leave the kids at daycare/the grandparents’ a few days a week. My mum went straight back to full-time work after finishing maternity leave when I was born and my sister did the same after having her kid.
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I understand what you’re saying, but any man who made you feel like you were living off ‘his’ money doesnt deserve to be a father! If you were a stay at home mum you would be using your time to raise his precious baby after all – it is his baby too! If you werent doing it, you would be paying a fortune for someone else to!
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Oh it’s not like that at all. I’m a VERY stubbornly independent person, believe me…
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Sorry, but this kind of attitude strikes me as quite arrogant and screams ignorance to the role of the stay at home parent.
I don’t see it as ‘living off another person’s income” at all. My husband does paid work and I do at least an equal workload in unpaid domestic duties. The money that comes in is a product of both our efforts. Even if he is the one turning the wheel, I am the one oiling it and fueling him.
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Wow, how offensive. In my family, we have our money for our family. My husband doesn’t stand behind a counter dolling it out like charity. I’m at home with our children, he’s at work, we live off his salary and my maternity leave pay…our money.
You might understand better once you’ve actually had some experience with this situation.
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I don’t see the opinion as offensive, rather that the point being made could be phrased differently to say the same thing.
I understand the desire to feel like I’m contributing financially. The idea that one person brings in all the income for the family seems too risky. But then, I’m one of those ambitious types who can’t sit still, who has to be doing something. The ‘annoying’ type who has four kids AND runs a consulting business!
Back to Mia’s article. I disagree with the idea that the word ambitious is a negative for woman and positive for a man – society is not that simple. There may be a generalised sway towards this still, but surely when ambitious is used in a negative fashion it’s a reflection on the user not the person that it is aimed at. I’ve heard people call my husband ambitious in a negative sense – and it’s been people who are his peers and are threatened by his achievements. I’ve been called ambitious in a positive sense, as part of a thank you from a client who liked a study I did for his organisation.
The other part I found interesting in this article was the post-baby months. It is so fascinating to see how different people’s responses are to mothering. It just goes to show just how unique we all are and how there is no one, or two, or five, ways to be a parent.
I reckon as long as you think about it, then however you parent will be the right way for you and your family.
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Why so defensive? If your partner is going to work and making money then he is the one financing the family. It’s a really simple fact but you can spin it however you want.
And I knew someone had to bring the good old ” you’ll know better once you’re a mother” argument to the table.
Mia, I am just curious about how you feel when someone like Jedielf makes a comment that is different to that of the stay at home mums and she gets shot down like this? There was nothing offensive about her comment, this is how a lot of women feel, and she was stating it very much as her opinion, not “this is how it should be for everyone.” This kind of a reaction was not warranted and I have no doubt it puts people off commenting.
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Thanks guys. I really didn’t mean it as a “this is how it should be for everyone” thing. Those are just the choices I reckon would be best for me and my family, judging from this particular point in time. I know that just staying at home for most of the day, no matter how much there is to be done, really affects my anxiety and depression, and having a full-time job has really worked wonders, no matter how bad they days at work have gotten. And really, who knows what will happen when I do have kids? It’s a decision I am going to have to keep considering and reconsidering for as long as I can.
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Hi Jedielf,
Of course you’re entitled to your feelings on this, just thought I’d point out that if 50/50 equality is what you’re going for, then shouldn’t your partner be doing 50% of the child rearing/housework too?
Trouble is, many men don’t want to, and even for those who do, their employers don’t really make that possible in most cases. So, just a bit of caution, by all means work if you want to, but bear in mind that the 50/50 split might end up being more like 70/30 when you factor in the other important jobs that need doing.
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Oh yeah I know it’s not the ideal world. But if the opportunity is there to make this sort of thing work, then I will grab it. And if things keep going well with my current partner and his career path, then the 50/50 housework/child-rearing might not be a problem either.
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I used to say stuff kinda like this – and THEN I had a baby and I did not count on the feelings that accompany that, the over riding one being that I did not want to be parted from this child. She was mine, and I did not want her first steps, tooth, word being consigned to a daycare worker or her grandparents (who I don’t think should be expected to actually raise their grandchildren or look after them for ridiculous amounts of time).
As I have stated in a post above – my view is absolutely whatever keeps mummy happy is the best option for all, and I support every mums choice – no judgements but i also get a laugh reflecting on the types of things come out of the mouths of women pre baby. You never know how you will feel about it all till it happens!!! And SAHM show ambition in other ways – I just ran a half marathon!
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I alwasy liked the thought of being a SAHM long term but at the same time had that niggle in the back of my mind that I need to keep a foot in the door just in case. When pregnant with my bub, I always said I would go back when he was 15months (I wanted to have finished breastfeeding during the day and I didnt like the thought of him going to childcare when he was not mobile) and then gol back the minimum amount they would let me to still keep my job. I also said I woudl go back pregnant with No 2, but dont think this will happen! My son is now 13 months and I will go back when he is about 16months as that is when I can get childcare. I do love being at home with him but some days I do find can be long! I am so lucky I have a flexible job where I can pretty mcuh choose my hours and my hubby has 1 day off a week where he can look after bubs. I will do 2 days a week (they wouldnt let me do 1 otherwise I may have gone back sooner) I think 2 days will be plenty because I still want to be able to take him to playgroup etc as I think this is important to him also. I can keep my job as part time until my youngest is at school, but even then I dont think i would work full time. I know how lucky we are that I dont need to work (although we have saved very hard the last few years to pay off our mortgage to put ourselves in this position) I guess i dont have a ‘career’ as such but do have a good job that pays well, but I dont have any desire to climb the ladder either!
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I thought I was ambitious. Having just received a promotion about the exact same time I fell pregnant, I applied for only 3 months maternity leave. I juggled for 3 years. It got too hard, and after a gentle nudge (a redundancy) I now run a business from home. I’m still ambitious (although I too sometimes cringe at the word), but in a more “family-friendly” way.
I still don’t think most workplaces really get that pull between “ambition” and teeny tiny socks – but it’s certainly real! And how do you describe that to a guy who’s still single in his 40s, or an even more “ambitious” female who’s on the road to trading career for family? How do you explain them to a man whose stay-at-home wife still makes him dinner after his busy day, despite the fact the kids are in their teens?
I’m not up for that type of ambition any more. I think “living the dream” is far more scary and ambitious!
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I popped out number 3 just 48 hours ago. What’s my name again?
In all seriousness, though, six months is my post natal bliss fog time, and then I need work. I’m lucky to have work I love and can do part time.
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Congratulations!!!
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I had 6 months off with my first son and 8 months with the second, and returned part time (3 days/week) with both of them. My oldest starts school next year and my youngest is currently 3.5 years old. I am in the awful situation where I am desperate to get out of my current job as it makes me miserable, but there just aren’t any part time jobs at my level (EL2). So I am contemplating returning to full time work for the first time in almost 6 years. I HATE the thought of it. I do want to work (and need to, financially) but I really don’t want to work part time. So I am trying to work out how much longer I can cope with being miserable at work and what negative impact that will have on my kids compared to the anticipated misery of a better job but so much less time with them. It seems like an impossible decision to me. It’s making me sad and stressed
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I’m in exactly the same position. I returned to work part-time when my son was 1 year old (which was 6 months ago). I hate the company I work for but I know that I won’t be able to get part-time work anywhere else, so I am stuck. It’s very depressing. Add to the fact that we might try and have another baby soon’ish which means I am even more stuck. It might be years before I can work full time in a position I like! This is why women hit glass ceilings in their careers, because they can’t move to take up better opportunities….
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Lol, my ambition at work goes out the door when I see 2 lines on the test stick and I start dreaming about how to organize the babies room etc!!! 23 weeks pregnant and not career focused or ambitious at all at the moment! However i am ambitious about my house remaining clean for a least 4 hours after the cleaner has been…..I can keep wishing as with an 18 mth old, my ambition is getting me nowhere….
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To be honest I find all the will I/won’t I go back to work drama really odd.
My mother and grandmother never had paid employment, but they also had barely any time to spend with their kids. Just doing basic things like cooking and washing clothes took up the majority of the day. They were on their feet dawn til dusk, and for most of that time the kids were either asleep, at school or sent outside so they wouldn’t get in the way. There were no craft activities or library trips, the kids went to the park when they were old enough to get themselves there. My paternal grandmother was wealthier, which just meant that like her peers she had a ‘housekeeper’ who was really a full-time cleaner and full-time nanny rolled into one. She would have spent less than an hour a day with her kids despite having absolutely no work commitments. She certainly wasn’t alone.
What we know think of as a SAHP is very different from the reality 50 years ago. My female relatives were at home, but the focus was on household chores. If the kids were fed and clothed and bathed, that was enough.
Go back through my family history and you’ll find that very few of my Anglo-Saxon ancestors would have spent much time with their kids, certainly an almost non-existent amount of quality time. I don’t think the generations that came before us were any more/less f#@&ed up than we are, so I don’t see why it’s such a big deal.
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I was actually the opposite. Before I had my baby I thought I wanted to stay at home full time for years and years. But after 6 months, the thought of being home for another 12 months filled me with dread.
So I went back after 12 months off. I am lucky to be able to have my extended family look after my daughter & so she has also thrived as she is developing strong relationships with her aunty and grandparents. Though without this help I’m not sure it would be such a positive story for us.
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Wait…a whole column because someone called you ambitious? Maybe I’ve missed the point, but I just don’t get it. Ambition is good!! There are no negative connotations – I think people read far too far into things sometimes…
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I was in a similar position – thought that I would only take 6 months off and then head back into work. I had a national role, with a great firm and I really, really loved my job. To be honest, it was how I saw myself – my entire sense of self was wrapped up in my job title. I was also the main breadwinner, so we thought it would be the only option if I went back to work. Then, I had my baby. And I knew whilst still in the hospital that I wasn’t going to return to work. For a long, long time. We had to make (to many) some pretty drastic changes – my husband changed jobs and increased his workload, we moved further out and downsized our ideas about holidays/private schools/cars etc. There was a lot of change. But it all just didn’t seem to matter any more. My work tried to find me something a few days a week (which was very good of them), but with the travel involved in my role, I just couldn’t seem to make it work, for me or for us as a family. And two & a half years later, here I am still at home. I admit to sometimes being bored, of wondering if “this is it?”, “if this is what I worked so hard for” as I look at my degrees hanging on the wall. My mother is quietly mortified, as she went back to work quickly after having children – both for financial reasons and the fact that she found being at home very dull (which it really, really can be).
But then I see my son and how he is thriving, that although i can be bored senseless, my husband seems happier, and I know that this is the right decision for us as a family. Of course I miss work, adult company, going to the toilet by myself, drinking tea when it’s still hot, the list goes on and on. But I did it for 18 years and if I’m home for a few more, well so be it.
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Thank you Mia for articulating this so well. I think a big part of the issue for many of us is that for the majority of working people – men and women – work is something to be endured not enjoyed. It’s a pretty rare person who would say they absolutely love their work. And if you do – of course you want to pour at least some of your energy into that for your adult life if you are lucky enough to have a family as well.
Sometimes I wonder if the majority of mums at my son’s school actually hated what they did at work before children so took the chance for a longer career break than they might’ve otherwise…(of course I am coming from the dull reality of actually having to work to support my family so I don’t have that decision to make). Ambition is a fine thing I think and I do think unless you have an absolute tribe of children to care for that some of us do bow out too early from the ‘outside’ world once our private world becomes more demanding of us. But a big part of it is to make sure to try to do something you like in the first place – not a simple equation for many of us.
Also another question for our generation is how do we want to raise our daughters to view work? Do we want them to see it as a stopgap between university and babies? Or something which will be a lifelong project? Then there’s the challenge of finding part-time work which is meaningful and pays well …it is complicated – but probably worth it once your kids are old enough to be less interested in the amazing work you are doing caring for them at home.
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Most the mums I know, myself included, havent returned to work even though we have school aged children simply because someone needs to be available for our family to function well. Most of our husbands have very demanding jobs and are often overseas. My family simply would be dysfunctional if I was working too, I know my limitations. My kids have after school commitments and someone needs to drive them there and collect them. They get sick, they have school holidays. I cant rely on my husband for a lot of that because he works long hours and is often away. My kids need stability and that comes from me. A few of my friends have tried returning to work but have had to quit because it simply wasnt working for their family. I know a couple of families who make it work but its not always easy, with nannies quitting or taking holidays at inconvenient times. Its just another stress I simply dont need in my life.
I certainly didnt view work as something to fill in time between university and babies, however growing up with a mother who was devoted to her career I knew that working wasnt something that I would place as my top priority either. If working meant I had to make compromises, it wasnt important at all. My daughters know I have University qualifications and have a good career and know that for this time in our lives me not working is the best decision for us. I think its important for them to know that life is fluid and decisions should be made about what is best for the whole family at different times in life.
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I’m currently pregnant with my first, and I think I’d really like to stay at home until it starts pre-primary, but I know that being out of the workforce that long could make it difficult to re-enter.
So I’m hoping perhaps to find a 2 day a week contract after say 1 year, just to keep a foot in the working world. I’m also completing a post grad diploma of education, so that I can become a teacher and have a work schedule that will be complementary to parenting school-aged kids.
I had a wonderful SAHM and felt very lucky to be one of the few of my friends who did. But her sole ambition was always to be a mum, and I think now her depression stems from empty nest syndrome and the fact that she has absolutely no confidence to learn a new skill of any kind.
She was lucky that her marriage stayed strong but if she had become a young widow or divorcee she’d have been screwed. So, even though I have lost my other ambitions for now, and only want to be a SAHM, I think I’ll try to have a good contingency plan. You just never know when your financial or family situation could change.
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Your Mum will be a great Granny!
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Right on, C! She’s been DYING for grandkids.
But I’m mindful that I want her to enjoy being a granny and not a nanny – I think if I had to rely on my parents for regular, constant childcare, it’s not only a little bit unfair, but they tend to feel like they can tell you how to raise your child. Plus, the kid can get a bit spoiled with constant treats and TV at G-ma’s house!
Anyone else find this?
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I’d be careful about doing a degree for the hours- I’m a teacher & still require long day care & after school care. I have to be at school no later than 8am (preferably earlier) & after school is usually filled with staff/department meetings (usually 3 a week), meetings with parents and any prep you have to do at school that can’t be done at home. My husband who is also a teacher leaves home at 7.15 & gets home usually about 5.30/ 6ish. It’s not what people think!
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Very good point, B. I do also genuinely love teaching and working with kids, I think I would be selfish to become a teacher if I didn’t!
In my former life, I was working very long hours, and I would at least like to have the holidays off to spend with my kids when they’re older, so hopefully it’s still a better plan than what I was previously doing.
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Very good point, B. I do also genuinely love teaching and working with kids, I think I would be selfish to become a teacher if I didn’t!
In my former life, I was working VERY long hours, and I would at least like to have the school holidays off to spend with my kids if I have to work when they’re older, so hopefully it’s still a better plan than what I was previously doing.
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Dont get tied up with the ‘what ifs’ in life. So many people compromise what they really want to do and make their choices because they worry about what may happen, but may never happen.
Do what you feel makes you the best mum you can be.
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My first will be born next year, so I can’t view life from the other side of that but I can tell you I’m feeling ambitious. I’m ambitious to improve my thrift skills, already been enjoying learning to cook and budget better, hoping to spend a lot of time pre-birth, sewing tiny clothes, and after birth hoping I will have enough time still to enjoy my passion for drawing and reading, and hoping to raise my child bilingual and ambitious for us both to learn music.. Can educated women only satisfy their ambition in work? Certainly I don’t think so.
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Great comment…
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Love this.
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I have two young children and would love to go back to work, but finding a job in my field is the difficulty.
I looked into getting my masters at a few major universities, but they told me my undergrad degree is no longer “valid” in their eyes, as it’s more than 10 years old (as in, 13 years old– not 30!). They said I would need to start from scratch, despite having worked professionally in the field and already holding a relevant postgrad diploma.
Not exactly a policy which encourages people to re-enter the workforce. Totally discriminatory and very frustrating.
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Totally sympathise with you. This is disgusting policy.
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Your post prompted further thought, and I decided that it’s worth some discussion. If you experienced this rejection because your Degree is too old, then others will experience the same thing. The universities are, as far as I’m concerned, doing this for the money they will be paid by you for yet another Degree. This is completely unreasonable and objectionable. Obviously with a postgad Diploma, you have already proved you can study and you won’t be a waste of space. Your post has prompted me to contact my own university (Macquarie) to make enquiries about their policy. Something should definitely be done about this and fast but what can we do? Answers please somebody? This policy will exclude or impede a lot of women from further study.
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The ten year rule is fair and necessary. So much can change in that time; for example, research findings mean that theories that were commonly taught and supported in the past are revised.
As a University lecturer, I see students who return to study later in life struggling to keep up with current content. Entering into a postgrad degree without up-to-date knowledge would be very difficult for any student.
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Disagree absolutely. You surely must have seen mature age students returning to study who fly through the material with no difficulty. I went back to study at 52 and now contemplating a PhD. There are lots like me. Universities must take risks also.
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No, most of the time mature age students THINK that they are going to fly through the work because of ‘life experience’ etc, but often have difficulty with the curriculum. Hence the need to refresh knowledge by completing a grad dip or equivalent undergrad course.
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Sorry Lou, but I’ve seen plenty of them. At Macquarie at least. I’ve studied with them over the last 7 years. And you undervalue “life experience”. I don’t believe universities undervalue it.
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I don’t believe you. And as I said, universities must take risks also. I still say you’re in it for the money. I’ve seen firsthand how universities scrape their cash together in a big way, and this is one of their ways. Another way they do it is by “restructuring”. The university is penalising people who can do it because they refuse to take the risk that they can’t. And what’s it to them anyway, they still get paid for it. It’s a money issue and I can’t be convinced otherwise. Universities are very cheesy about how they take your money.
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My main point is that I completely disagree. I think the ten year rule is UNfair and UNnecessary. I think it largely has to do with A) the hyper-specialisation of Australian tertiary education at the expense of a broad, in-depth foundation of higher education and B) making money.
Why is it that my Bachelor of Arts Degree (Communications & Journalism) was deemed an acceptable pre-requisite to a postgrad diploma in Rehabilitation Counselling in 2006? On the surface it would appear my undergrad degree had virtually NOTHING to do with my postgrad dip, but it was within that all important 10 year time-frame.
The reason I got HDs in my postgrad course is because I had proven with my “ancient” BofA that I can think critically, analyse complex ideas, and that I am disciplined in my work ethic. NONE of these things expired the day my undergrad degree turned ten years old.
This is an ageist policy, there’s no doubt about it. The person I spoke with at the Minister for Tertiary Education’s office agreed with me, by the way. Unfortunately the government has no jurisdiction over university policy unless it is egregiously prejudicial. Hmm… this policy is definitely close, if not in that category.
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So glad you responded in this way ‘frustrated’. I agree with all that you say and I’m glad I’m not the only one. this is an absolutely ageist policy coming out of the most ageist country in the world – Australia. I’m so ashamed of it, which is why I call it disgusting.
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It’s an interesting one, that one. I got accepted into an IT postgraduate course by more than one uni on the back of health qualifications a few years ago. Of which, the undergrad was over 10 years, while the postgrad (also health) were under 10. They were just interested in my GPA, which I had no clue of, because all my courses had been done using the more old fashioned pass, credit, distinction and high distinction method of grading. They were more concerned that I was capable of doing the work.
I would wonder if degrees which lead to a qualification that needs to be registered by a national body is ever really outdated, given that we’re usually required to continually update our knowledge.
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Good point Faybian. The GPA is a solid grading. For instance, if you have a GPA now of say 3.5/5, and you are capable of this now, there is nothing on earth to suggest in 10 years’ time you will be less capable of it, and every reason to suggest that with you will be even more capable. I think Australia is full of a lot of very, very ageist people. And the reason Lou can apparently prove mature age students are less capable is only because of the absurd policy which has been discussed here. That is, very few universities are giving them the opportunities they deserve and few universities are willing to take risks. Universities (NOT Macquarie, however) are always full of grey people. I look for universities where there are none, or few of those.
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Thanks for taking my words out of context, Ali Flint.
I am not saying that mature age students are not CAPABLE. What I am saying is that any person of any age cannot expect to re-enter a field of learning after 10+ years and expect to be up to date with theory and knowledge.
And to answer your question regarding ‘what’s it to Universities if students fail?’…. well, if students fails then the international ranking of the University is impacted, funding is affected, the overall reputation of the University suffers, and students rightly complain that they’ve been sold a dud product.
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Thanks for taking the bait, Lou! Because you stumbled headlong into my next important point – universities don’t necessarily want you when you’re a mature age student because you might, just might RISK their precious national and international rankings which are what matter to them most. Not the students.
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I hope you’re still reading this thread, ‘frustrated’, because I think you will find that ‘Lou’ has elucidated just exactly why you are in this predicament. The university doesn’t want you because you pose a risk to their rankings! Not because you’re incapable or undereducated. The universities need some risk management experts! Because they would prove this argument to be fallacious. Good luck anyway.
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I’m still reading. I’ve attempted to reply three times but apparently have been blocked from posting. Moderators, could you please explain??
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Most mothers in the 80`s went back to work after 5 years?
Oh well myself and most of my girl friends tended to return to work after 6 months. Actually in one place I worked 70% of the staff were working mothers of children under 5. This was in the early 1980`s. We had flexi time, we had job sharing, we were not living in the dinosaur ages like some seem to think the 80`s were.
Many woman do not return to the workplace purely to fulfill their ambitions, it is usually out of necessity to pay the bills. Would most women rather wait until their child is older? I think they would but have no choice. Of course hiring a nanny would make that choice easier but most women can`t afford that privilege.
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I have mixed feelings about this. My husband and I decided to have children when he was studying for a higher degree. I went back to work after 6 weeks twice because we had a mortgage.The second time, we didn’t use a sitter but both worked part time and shared the care. We made the choice and survived but it was not ideal by a long shot.
We are a family of high achievers but I don’t think of us as ambitious. I have used ambitious negatively also but I definitely use it negatively for men also.My children are now grown and successful.
I can understand that some people have lived in circumstances that cause them to be ambitious about things and they can be driven to succeed. I applaud people working hard, making the most of their lives and opportunities but I am not always sure that we need to be “ambitious.” I think ambition causes much unhappiness often.
I think we need to learn often to be content and live our lives well.
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I want to say congratulations on writing an article that is emotive, without judgement and condescension. It’s very balanced and the best kind of opinion piece. Well done.
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Without judgement? I am a SAHM. My career is on hold as I they are mine (and my partner’s) to care for during this time that we will never have again and passes so quickly. I suppose as a SAHM I don’t like the assumption that I am without ambition as I am currently looking after my children myself. My career will resume when the time is right. I will probably offend people who use daycare as that is not something I would consider. The cycle continues…
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I am really hoping the ‘wanting to be at work’ thing kicks in for me soon. My baby is 6 months old and I could happily stay at home with him forever. I’m currently slightly annoyed that my payroll have done an irritating rule change, meaning that in order for me to transition from maternity leave to annual leave I have to go back to work for a day or two and start over (my boss suggested to just call in sick, but I feel I owe it to them for being so accommodating to actually turn up). I work 12 hr shifts on a 24 hr roster, meaning that, as I’m only planning on working 2 shifts per week, I practically will be a SAHM, but the thought of two days away from my baby is killing me! But maybe, in another 6 months I’ll welcome the break…
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Let me guess – NSWP?
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I found this post really strange. It assumes that if you are a stay at home mum that you can’t be ambitious.
Ambition is the desire for personal achievement. Who says that it can’t be personally achieving to be with your kids, love them, spend time with them, try to be the best parent you can be (learning from the multitudes of mistakes we all make upon the way – btw I don’t think the ‘perfect’ parent exists).
Why does ambition have to be linked to having a career?
People are ambitious about different things for different reasons. Some people have an ambition to make sure they can afford to get a meal on the table every night, or to ensure that their kids have the chance to go to school. Or to save like crazy so they can have the luxury of spending a few weeks or months at home with their baby before finances drive them back to the work.
Guess it all depends on your circumstances Mia.
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Absolutely!!
My ambition is to raise well disciplined, happy, educated and respectful children.
I have no desire to combine that with kicking career goals at the same time, sounds like too much to juggle for me. I’m happy to tackle one big thing at a time.
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Great comment, it’s exactly how I feel. Thanks for posting it.
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It’s clear that when Mia was referring to “ambition” she meant ambitious in the sense of a career. Sure, you could argue that one could be ambitious to grow a herb garden, go to the gym and attend as many PTA meetings as possible – but that wasn’t the sense in which Mia talked of ambition. It’s pretty common to use “ambitious” in the context of talking of a career outside the home.
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Why does ambition have to be linked to having a career? – Completely agree with this!
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Completely off topic- I tried to use the ‘contact us’ section but I couldn’t get it to load properly. Just wondering if you’re going to do another Christmas gift guide this year because last years was really helpful and I’m stumped again with impossible family members!
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Mia, could you tell us where your top is from in the pic accompanying this article? Gorgeous!
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I certainly don’t want this next comment to start a thread pitting stay at home parents v working parents but I’d be interested to know if there are any people out there who can comment about what it’s like for full time stay at home parents (overwhelmingly women still) when their kids grow up. Looking at my in laws and others around me, I haven’t yet seen a successful transition.
Usually the women don’t regret staying home with kids and undoubtedly talk to people who had a parent at home and they loved it, but can we as a society do better to avoid this huge hole that is left for one parent when kids leave the house. I think one answer is to provide greater flexibility in the workplace for both parents to share domestic duties. It involves a cultural/societal shift but I desperately hope that that is a direction we are going in.
Genuinely Interested in others views.
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Hi Maria
I can offer an alternative example. I grew up in the 70′s and 80′s. My mother went against the grain in those days and worked fulltime from when I was about 3. So both my parents worked fulltime for most of my childhood. We were cared for my a mix of grandparents, aunts, babysitters and vacation care (which was rare in those days). Now my mother is retired she often says she regrets her choice and wishes that she had not made the committment to her career that she had. She often feels she missed out on a lot of our lives. Her choice has moulded the choice my sister and I have both made, and we made it our ambition to be SAHMs for as long as we possibly could.
Thats said my mum is now an awesome hands on devoted grandma!
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How do you define a ‘successful transition’? Not being snarky, just not sure what that does/doesn’t look like.
My mum went back to work p/t (in the same field she originally trained pre-kids) when my brother and I were about 14/15 and 11/12 and then moved into full-time work when we finished school and it’s worked fine – she’s enjoyed it and we were glad to have her around. Now she’s back to dropping her hours back again because she’s desperate to be able to spend more time with her grandkids. And, in fact, although Mum was home more when we were younger, Dad is the one who has been working part-time now and will retire earlier.
I don’t think it needs to be a cut-and-dried thing where the kids grow up and then what? – It’s not like being a f/t SAHM must last from the time of the first child’s birth until the youngest turns 18 or moves out of home.
But Mum and Dad have been a great support to us now and have encouraged me to finish some study while they babysit and are doing the same with some part-time work that I’m in the process of moving back into. I’ve had almost 8 years off work and am also going back to the same field I was involved in pre-kids. I did bits of study in the meantime, and have casually kept my hand-in the field, but not seriously. My husband has been the biggest cheer-squad for me getting back into study and work and been very willing to pick up some of the slack at home.
As I look at friends, I think it’s been pretty similar for them too – I don’t think we’re that unusual. In the same way that kids grow up gradually, it’s not too hard (I’ve found) to move gradually back into the work.
Another thought is that some of those people who don’t appear to have made a successful transition once their children grew up might well have discovered non-paid ways to still live a fulfilling life – I can think of several older ladies that I know who never went back to work in a paid capacity, but have done phenomenal amounts of work in a voluntary capacity, or have moved into part-time roles and have been very happy with this arrangement. For them, I don’t think success was defined by payment – and it’s not that they’re lazy either – they work very hard in the things they do and both give and receive great joy from it!
Plus I can think of others who have done further study and moved into totally new careers post-kids (eg the friend who studied law once her youngest child was 10+ and now works as a lawyer or my MIL, who also gained a PhD once her children were at school and then lectured in her field).
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Ambition is fantastic and I too was once fiercly ambition. I am less ambitious for myself now and more ambitious for my children. I haven’t given up on myself, but it’s their future I worry about.
I think that’s where women sometimes get it wrong. You can’t have it all, when your ambition is more important than your kids’, trouble is looming. My prediction is we will see the results over the next 10 years and beyond.
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Thanks Mia. I think one thing that is also happening in terms of generational shifts is that fathers WANT to spend more time with their children combined with women wanting to work. It is certainly difficult to find two jobs that can flexibly accommodate needs of both parents to spend time with kids but I’m seeing more of that happening. Not enough, but more.
It’s something that is often missed in these discussions – I hope that we move away from discussions about women’s needs and always viewing from women’s perspective to looking at it as a genuine family issue. There’s still a not much in mainstream media written by men about trying to find the elusive work-life balance. Any men care to comment? I mean that sincerely.
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I agree wholeheartedly.
The flip side of this argument is that men who are ‘not ambitious’ in the traditional sense are viewed as having something wrong with them. So women are wrong if they have kids and don’t want to work and men are wrong if they have kids and don’t want to work.
Like everything else, if you are in a two parent family, you have to take it in turns as to who gets to have a purple patch or the show frequently falls apart.
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I will comment on behalf of my hubby
He has a massive commute to work each day, so works one day a week (of a full-time job) at home. Just this one little change, of having him home in the mornings and afternoons to be with our son, makes a massive difference in our lives and his confidence in being a dad. His workplace had great policies and checks to make this to happen, sorting out OHS issues (e.g. they purchased him an office chair), ensuring that security is properly adhered to etc, so it is possible.
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Mary, that’s pretty much how I feel too. I’m guessing you’re in the higher paying /enjoy your job category? I am.
Do you percieve younger people in the workplace thinking you’re not on top of the game because you’re not there as often or senior people not offering you opportunities? Maybe I’m just being sensitive.
I do want to spend time with my children and am so grateful to be able to attend school events etc. but I also want some recognition for the work I do at work!
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Ambition is about what you accomplish. I’m ambitious in a big way. I like to make aims and goals then work towards that. Sometimes ambition comes with the desire to be recognised and rewarded but I don’t think real accomplishment has much to do with being acknowledged or recognised. When my children were babies and I was completely domicile, I turned to those things in which I wanted to feel accomplished. One of those was to learn classical guitar. I used to pick up my guitar every spare 10 minutes I could, in between caring for two babies 15 months apart and both in nappies. A huge job in itself, but the guitar gave me an artistic outlet and in making that aim and putting in the necessary work, I became an accomplished classical guitarist. Then after a third baby, I made a goal to learn classical Greek and Latin, which I did. Then I learned another 2 languages, and I’m onto my 5th, 6th and 7th languages now. Ambitions like these have made me feel extraordinarily accomplished in my life, but they don’t have much to do with careers or being recognised and acknowledged. I think it’s really about feeling as though your life has meaning and value. I don’t think it pays to make a lot of noise about your ambitions and it’s better to silently work towards your own private goals, whatever they may be. Ambition is about more than a job and money. You can have both of those but still be an entirely unaccomplished person, and I never wanted to feel like that. Ambition is wonderful.
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You sound like a beautifully ambitious and interesting woman! I have no doubt you will inspire your children to grow up and pursue their interests also!
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Thanks Kitten your comment is very interesting because indeed that’s what happened. My children play musical instruments also. And they also turned to personal study. I often wonder whether I was instrumental (no pun intended!) in this.
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That is wonderful to hear
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I think industry has a lot to do with it. I work in IT and while some think it is boring, I have found it perfect for family, ambition and balance. My mostly male colleagues are like a collection from geek world, but are amazingly funny and supportive. I went to work after 11 months and they all helped me to get my work done and rescheduled meetings to assist my family time. About to have second maternity leave and will return again in about a year or so. I get paid well and nerds tend to be sensitive and don’t really buy in to corporate ambition. This applied to me…I care not about kicking career goals….but work to pay the bills and support my family.
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