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by MIA FREEDMAN

This idea does my head in.

Freebirthing. Where women are encouraged to shun all medical attention during pregnancy. Imagine. No obstetric check ups. Not antenatal care. No ultrasounds. No tests for the baby -  or the mother for that matter. And then there’s the birth itself.  Solo. Just you and your baby. Best of luck.

This growing movement of (predominantly) women who loath ‘the medicalisation of birth’ will emphatically tell you that women are physiologically designed to give birth alone, far away from medical intervention. Without even a midwife in attendance. Your body, they will tell you, innately knows how to give birth.

Until, that is, something goes unexpectedly wrong.

Take a look at this (devastating) news report:

 

Janet Fraser Her baby died. Yet Freebirthers still want you to try it.

Janet Fraser

In Australia, the Joyous Birth website is one of the leading advocates of the Freebirthing movement. But what nobody on the Joyous Birth website will tell you is that this practice of ‘Freebirthing’ led to the tragic death of its founder’s baby.

Last week Jane Fraser – one of Australia’s leading Freebirth advocates – was criticised by a coroner over the 2009 death of her daughter. Experts have confirmed that Fraser’s newborn daughter Roisin would probably have survived if a midwife had been in attendance or if Fraser had been in a hospital or birth centre. Instead Fraser chose to labour at home for five days, eventually giving birth in a blow up plastic pool in her study with just her partner and best friend in attendance. None of the three had any medical training.

You can read more about the case here.

This isn’t a post designed to savage Janet Fraser’s decision to Freebirth her daughter Roisin. When a baby dies it is a tragedy, pure and simple. It’s something I’m painfully aware of.

No. You see it’s not Fraser’s past actions that get me the most riled up. It’s her current ones. Because despite the fact that Freebirthing is the reason Roisin died, Fraser and other members of the Joyous Birth movement are still actively advocating the practice of Freebirth as a safe, desirable option to other mothers on the Joyous Birth website.

And that is what I find reprehensible.

Take a look at some of the information Joyous Birth presents to unsuspecting parents about the pros, cons and philosophy of Freebirthing:

The idea behind unassisted childbirth (UC) is that if the mother is left to birth without any birth authority other than herself to rely on, she will birth as she is physiologically meant to.

With no outside authority to look to and validate her actions, the mother will turn deep within herself and be open to the primal birthing knowledge that is innate in all of us women.

We may not consciously know what to do in the event of so and so complication, but our bodies and our instincts do. Put simply, UC is a leap of faith, and you don’t even have to be religious to do it.

The safest and most responsible birth is one where the mother knows that she needs no one present to birth her baby other than herself. She knows that she has all the necessary primal knowledge that will make itself available to her at the right times.

She knows this knowledge will manifest in actions, feelings and instinct, not conscious, logical thought, and it will prevent and avoid most problems. She educates herself and prepares herself for birth by confronting her fears and researching the “what if’s”, keeping in mind that all she needs is trust in birth, in her abilities and in her baby.

She is positive and confident. Birth is a joyous experience, and she will claim it for her and her baby!

And in the detailed list of 8 ‘Pros’ of Freebirth, they say this:

You have a good chance at a natural, physiological birth – the kind that often goes off without a hitch, and any blips in birthing that may happen, have the chance to resolve themselves naturally first.

Freedom to drink, eat, yell, scream, laugh, cry, express emotions and feelings, wander around, bake a cake, cuddle your kids, play a game, sleep, relax, have outrageous wild sex (or quietly make love). Basically whatever the hell you feel like doing – all without disturbance or inhibitions due to visitors or strangers.

Responsibility for birth, baby and mother lies with you and your partner.

Staggeringly, the ‘cons’ list contains only three points:

If there is a true emergency, there may be a delay in receiving care while you transport to hospital.

You may have difficulty getting support from family/friends if they know you’re freebirthing.

Obtaining a birth certificate can be a hassle in some states – for more information visit Purebirth Australia and read on Birth Certificates

No mention of death. No mention that the Joyous Birth’s founder Janet Fraser lost her baby girl during a Freebirth.

And the Joyous Birth website is not the only one preaching the wonders of this reckless practice.

lisa morgan Her baby died. Yet Freebirthers still want you to try it.

Lisa Morgan from Freebirth Australia

The Freebirth Australia website is run by Lisa Morgan who says in her introduction: “I have gone from midwife attended homebirth, to a freebirth with my then-partner present, to a solo family birth as a single mother with only my children present.”

With only her children present? Imagine if there had been complications during that birth. My God…..

Like every post we do that involves the death of a baby or mother during birth, we did not publish this one lightly. Yes, there is a real family involved. Who are grieving. And no matter the circumstances of their baby’s death, it’s a tragic, awful situation. But in the case of Janet Fraser and the death of her baby daughter Roisin during a ‘free birth’ at home, the circumstances do matter. They matter very much.

Because the circumstances of this birth are what led to the death of baby Roisin, from a lack of oxygen caused when she became entangled in her umbilical cord during labour, a labour that went for five days without any medical attention or supervision.

This type of birth, Freebirth, was the express wish of Janet Fraser and – presumably – her partner, Roisin’s father who can be heard on the utterly heartbreaking tape of the 000 phone call made after the baby’s birth and death in the video report above.

Janet and her partner chose a Freebirth for Rosin – Janet’s third child – despite Roisin’s birth being known by Janet and her partner to be a high-risk birth. Her second birth had ended in an emergency caesarean and Janet had been traumatised by it, according to evidence she gave to the coroner.

Janet Fraser is not just an individual who made a choice that went horribly wrong. She is a passionate advocate and campaigner for the process of Freebirth.

While the site contains dozens of glowing, rapturous stories, nowhere on the Joyous Birth website are there any stories of free births gone wrong. And that disturbs me greatly. Because just like the absurdly and duplicitously named Australian Vaccination Network (AVN) which pretends to be a source of credible information about vaccination but is in fact a vehicle for alarmist misinformation and rubbish, the Joyous Birth website does not paint an accurate picture of Freebirth.

freebirth1 380x267 Her baby died. Yet Freebirthers still want you to try it.

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And like the AVN, it actively seeks to persuade vulnerable, naive parents to make potentially deadly choices about the way they give birth or look after their child’s health.

So why do I care? When we’ve published stories about the dangers of Freebirth in the past, some commenters have questioned my own motivations. Do we write these articles ‘for traffic’? Hardly.

These posts unleash a shitstorm of abuse directed at me from birthing ‘advocates’ who come after me with untold aggression and personal slurs.

So why do it?

My motivation is more personal. I lost a baby halfway through my second pregnancy. Nobody could ever tell me why. It was just one of those things. I have friends like Bec Sparrow who lost babies even later. Bec’s daughter Georgie was stillborn at 36 weeks. I have other friends who have lost babies to SIDS or when they were infants.

Why do I feel so passionately about women who knowingly choose to risk their babies – and their own – lives by Freebirthing with no medical support? Because those babies could all have been saved.

My friends and I and the thousands of women who have lost babies during pregnancy, birth or afterwards never had that choice. We didn’t have the luxury of thumbing our nose at a hospital, doctor or a midwife who could have saved our babies’ lives.

So that’s where I’m coming from.

I’m not encouraging personal attacks on Janet Fraser. I’m not suggesting a witch hunt. The tragic and devastating consequence of their decision to freebirth their daughter is something that family must live with forever. I’m not without compassion for them or their plight.

However the thought that there are ‘advocates’ – including Janet Fraser herself -  who are not only making that reckless decision for their own babies and their own bodies but who are trying to convince other women to take those same unforgiveable risks? While withholding crucial information about the death of baby Roisin due to Freebirthing?

I find that distressing and disturbing beyond belief.

Comments

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573 Comments so far

  1. Melbmum

    I’m not an advocater for home birth of any description. However, if Janet Fraser doesn’t back herself now, she will have to admit that she caused the death of her baby girl. I can see this as the only logical explanation as to why you would encourage others to put themselves and their babies at risk. She would quite literally have to admit her decision led to her daughters death. Maybe the more succcessful UC births she encourages the easier it is to tell herself it was just a tragedy!!!

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  2. JB

    I am currently studying maternal and child health and the child and maternal mortality rates decline sharply when there is antenatal care and a trained birth attendent at births (this is not medicalising birth, it is acknowledging things go wrong, and that there is a reason that maternal and child mortality rates are HUGELY lower in nations with medical care, antenatal care and trained birth attendants) At the very least if you freebirth you should be trained yourself in maternal and child emergency warning signs, considering how blessed we are to have access to medical knowledge and care if needed it seems sad to ignore it completely when so many yearn for such access globally.

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  3. Krista

    I read this article with utmost sadness. I, myself had my first child by an emergency C-Section under a general anaesthetic after which I suffered a great deal of trauma. I was, previous to his birth, confident that I would have my child naturally and without much issue. Boy was I wrong. After finally healing somewhat from that, we decided to have a second child. During my pregnancy with her, I suffered a lot of illness and stress but was determined more than ever to have her naturally (At home, with my Husband and our Son in an ideal world…). Nearing the end of my pregnancy (about 37 weeks, if I recall correctly), I changed my tune. I had an overwhelming sense of dread and began to ask about repeat surgery. Things went along and I was induced and had my membranes ruptured at 42 weeks and put through hell (thus, I can’t imagine what my poor little sweetheart was going through) for a day and a half whilst the OB kept trying to convince me that the surgery wasn’t going to be necessary. Finally, he agreed to the surgery and was immediately met with the sight of my little girl, so tangled in her cord that there was no way she was going to make out. He had to make 2 cuts – at the placenta and her – and unravel her immediately. She is not necessarily unscathed (she is now 10 months and suffering from delays that she is receiving therapy for and her physical abilities are not certain) and I wonder every day if things would be different if he had of listened to me when I knew more than what he ever realised. How much would he have kept pushing for the natural birth I had thought I so much wanted if I didn’t force my point? I will never know.

    Basically, what I am trying to say is that we, as the carriers of our children have such strong a strong and amazing connection to our children. Was she so blinded by the will to prove a point? Or the fear or her previous birth trauma? She will never know the answer to that either and my heart aches. But I can say with all certainty, I will never, ever doubt my Motherly instincts again.

    Krista x

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  4. PW

    If I had not had a serious complication picked up at a pre natal check up in the hospital at 38 weeks, myself and my baby would have been dead. My husband would have no wife or son. My mother would have no daughter or grandson. It’s a no brainer for me.

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  5. Anon

    The comment about birthing along with only her children present (!!!) really pushed this from ‘loopy philosophy that I don’t agree with’ to ‘self centred, vain, individualistic lunacy’. Come on. At no point in history has it ever been normal or natural for a woman to birth alone with only her (assumably young) children present. Cave women would have known that that was a terrible idea. The slightest, most mundane difficulty, one that even another adult with no medical or doula training could sort out without difficulty, and you’re in major trouble. The person who did that must have been seriously mentally unbalanced. That is the only explanation I can think of for such a ludicrous act.

    That said, I don’t think it should be illegal. You can’t legislate against human idiocy. And I believe life begins at birth, not conception, so I believe a woman has the right to do as she pleases with her body and the foetus inside it. Just as a woman has the right to drink a bottle of vodka a day whilst pregnant, even though this is obviously seriously harmful to the foetus and a very poor choice in general. That said, I don’t believe websites should be allowed to spread disinformation about the drinking of a bottle of vodka a day as being a wondrous and freeing experience for a mother to be while totally passing over the dangers of doing so, and I don’t believe websites should be allowed to spread disinformation about birthing alone, or birthing with no trained assistance whatsoever, as being a choice that is safe.

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  6. Vic

    I have had both kinds of births and while my all natural one was really painful it seemed more intimate with just me, my hubby and the midwif- oh yes and the dr coming in at the last minute for the finale. After the birth I could walk around, hold my baby and felt invigorated! My c-sect birth was surreal no pain during it but about 12 strangers in the room discussing their weekend. Afterwards I felt like a truck hit me and couldn’t hold my baby straight away cause I felt too doped up.

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  7. Tam

    I dont understand what why these freebirthers find it wrong to have scans and prenatal care to check everything is going ok in the womb- thats pretty dumb. Also I dont think birthing is something primal that we can do by ourselves which is why midwives have been around for centuries!! I had 2 homebirths and my midwife made sure I had ultrasounds to check the cord wasnt around their necks and they were properly in position for natural birth. And we had to notify the OBGYN when I went into labour in case we did end up needing to get to the hospital. Its great to do it naturally at home but wise to take as much precaution as possible and why not make use of modern technology thats what its there for!

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  8. Bree

    Jude – the indignity and trauma of birth?? That is not the case for many women. I am sad that you think all women must feel that way about birth or expect it to be that way. Birth can be, and was for me, an amazing achievement, a defining moment in my life. Like running a marathon or climbing a mountain, or abseiling down a cliff. Birth is a physical event to be sure, but it is quite possible to have a joyful, empowering and calm birth. I had two of them.

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  9. Bree

    “Because those babies could all have been saved.”
    I do not believe that this sentence near the end of your article is true. Babies die in hospital, they die during pregnancy, they die at home. Babies die. Not “ALL” of them can be or are saved no matter what the model of care.
    I am not saying anything about this article that basically attacks a birth choice, I am simply stating that that sentence is not true. You can never know if all the babies that have died during free birth could have been saved. No one can know this, they can only guess what would have happened had the birthing situation been different.
    Plus to ‘CB’, it does matter how you birth a baby and to say that it doesn’t matter is to disempower women and their right to the birth they choose. How we feel about our births, how we prepare for them, how we deal with the emotions arising from them are all really important factors in how we feel as mothers and people.

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    • Mia

      Hi Bree,
      These were the words of the coroner. Based on medical evidence. It’s not subjective or conjecture. In this case, it’s a fact.

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      • Bree

        Medical ‘fact’ is retrospective none the less and NO ONE can definitively say that.

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        • Sara

          Mia, Even if the Cornoner said that it was a fact in this case you actually said “those babies could all have been saved.” as Bree said that statement is incorrect and you should correct it.

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  10. CB

    Great article Mia – My sister lost her first born child at 22 weeks to unknown causes. I know she would have done anything to have saved her little boy but she didnt get that choice. I feel terribly for Janets loss but I also think as a mother it is our responsibility to do everything within our power to protect our children. If a woman makes a choice to birth a child then they need to be willing to put their own needs and wants aside for the safety of their child. Does it really matter if you have an all natural birth at home, at a hospital, wear a c-section scar for the rest of your life as long as you have a healthy child at the end of it, isnt that accomplishment enough??

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  11. Alison

    Great article Mia, and so important. Another point regarding “free birthing” – women in developing countries are often at risk of developing fistulas post child birth, due to a prolonged, difficult labour without medical assistance. Some women are in labour for days, with results in not only great danger to the baby, but also lasting incontinence both urinary & faecal. There are some wonderful charities that have set up clinics to help these women run by Western doctors (including some Australian doctors), as these women if they are suffering from incontinence often get shunned by their communities.

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  12. Jude

    Elective caesarians are the greatest invention ever!!! Period. Nothing anybody can say will ever convince me of the ‘beauty’ of natural birth, in a hospital, at home with a midwife or free birthing. I respect anybody’s decision to have their baby any way they want- it would be great if the respect came back to me and others for choosing an elective caesarian. So many snarky women who resent women who have elective caesarians – maybe because they feel all women should suffer the indignity and trauma of natural birth? (And I mean ELECTIVE caesarians. I realise emergency caesarians can be highly traumatic and scary.)

    Mia, I question your position on this. It is patently clear that you are judging this woman for her choices then, and now.

    And you really must have a low opinion of human kind if you think prospective parents are going to be influenced by this woman’s website. I haven’t met a woman yet who doesn’t have definite ideas on the kind of birth she wants, and that’s usually before she’s even pregnant! The only people who are going to be influenced by this free birthing website are people who already believe in this type of birthing. And until the law changes to encompass the rights of the unborn baby to immediate medical attention (and that’s probably unlikely) then that’s their right, whether you, and I, like it or not.

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    • Anonymous

      I’ll respect you if you respect me Jude. I chose to have my baby vaginally and to not have an epidural. I don’t like being told that natural birth involves “indignity and trauma” and that I want all women to suffer in the way that you think I must have.
      For the record I don’t give a toss how you chose to have your baby and even if I did care I wouldn’t resort to ridiculing your choices. Respect needs to go both ways.

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      • Jude

        I didn’t say ALL women, even ones I haven’t met, are snarky about it, just that a lot who make comments to me are. Geez, this website is hilarious! People infer so much. And think they’re being personally attacked. And why so nasty? I’m not asking you to “care” about how I had my baby? I’m just saying that elective caesarians are marvellous, darling!

        And I’m sorry but I’m yet to meet a woman who hasn’t suffered indiginity and trauma through natural birth. I’m glad that you didn’t, good for you. But nobody else I know from my mum, sisters and friends to work colleagues has said anything other than it was a really painful traumatic experience, one where they felt they had no control, where they were embarrassed about bodily functions, where they suffered prolapses of anus and uterus, and suffered horrendous tearing and painful stitches. And so, of course, I can only speak of personal experience when I say that natural birth appears to be traumatic and lacks dignity.

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        • Anon

          I also suffered no indignity or trauma in my vaginal delivery.

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  13. Anon for this

    I was a moderator on a mainstream pregnancy, birth and parenting forum for a long time. Around 2006 or 2007, Janet Fraser and few followers (pre-Joyous Birth days), decided to continuously flame the forum because we were mainstream, and wouldn’t demonise hospital birth, and because we even had an area where c-sections could be discussed. For example, members were told that they were causing permanent emotional damage to their child by having a c-section, emergency or otherwise. It was fundamentalism at its worst; and caused enormous emotional pain to many members, causing some to seek professional counselling. Janet set up JB not long after.

    Given her actions in my online interaction with her, I’m not surprised that Janet took things to an extreme to the detriment of her daughter’s life, and still advocates freebirth. I understand that she had already freebirthed her second child after labouring for three or more days (her first birth was an emergency c-section).

    I just don’t understand the mindset that puts a mother’s birth experience ahead of the health and safety of their baby. I have two children who are alive due to their emergency c-sections and excellent medical care. It doesn’t mean that I wasn’t upset I didn’t have the drug-free natural (hospital) birth I’d planned, but I will take my healthy children over that any day.

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  14. WTF

    I don’t get this. It’s quite OK to terminate a life because it’s inconvenient but it’s not OK to have a natural birth and take what comes. (She should have been squatting, by the way)

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  15. janes

    “she will birth as she is physiologically meant to.”

    A high ideal, perhaps, but nature has a way of ‘weeding out’ the weaker of the species by natural selection – things go wrong and the ‘weak’ don’t survive. Have these people ever wondered why the rates of still births or deaths of mothers were so high before the intervention of modern medicine?

    To knowingly risk our own lives is one thing. We have free will and choice, but to knowingly risk the life of our child, who has rights but no ability to express them, is negligence. It might not be murder Amandarose but it sure as hell is manslaughter (or infanticide) by negligence.

    If women want a home birth, then so be it, but have suitably trained people on hand. We rail against people who cause the death of a child through other negligent actions like drink driving, drug use or just plain stupidity. Why is this any different?

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  16. Nia

    Cant believe Janet Fraser and the two others attending the birth didn’t even have CPR! Amazing.

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  17. gillian

    I get why they do it, I understand some women have some need to tap into their primeval selves (and yet I’m sure they don’t shun intervention at the dentist!) but in my case, placenta praevia in week 41, this foolish attitude would have killed my firstborn and possibly even me. I’m all for you making your own choices, but this (to quote a recent post) Birthzilla attitude is putting MUM at centre stage, not the baby.

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    • Anonymous

      Actually not true- I had placenta previa complete grade IV and I was in hospital for a month prior to my emergency c-section- so I am unsure what grade you had or not but mine was the worst kind and although mine was discovered early on at 24 weeks after a bleed I take heart and in the knowledge that weather I had discovered then or in labour due to a bleed statistically there is NO DIFFERENCE in the outcome of the situation. Not to say someone might not die but from my own experience but statistically with all reports and stats done there is no difference in mortality rates of baby or mum between mothers who discover in pregnancy or through bleeding at home or hospital during the labour- the fact is IF no matter the grade of PP if you are going to bleed that quickly sometimes even a hospital can’t help you.
      BTW this is no way a post to say that someone should not seek hospitals when they need it or if they feel its best for their child and them at said time- otherwise I wouldn’t have spent a month in hospital with my Placenta Previa just to point out the the small flaw in your post and stats, reports & medical info out there that say otherwise.

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  18. Amandarose

    I just read the freebirth web site and I thought is was fine. It pointed out that you should trust hospitals and feel able to get help if needed. It pointed out the risk of death from not seeking help.
    It also pointed out why she support freebirth and why. I kind of get it now although it is not my way of thinking.

    People are doing it as they feel their innate primal instincts will help them birth easier and with more safety. So they are doing it because they feel it is the best and safest option not because of the experience.

    I do not support this view but I think it is simplistic to call them murderers.

    Do I think Janet Fraser is bonkers for her choices? – Yes but I do n think she is a murderer.

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  19. Caz Gibson

    Fundamentalism comes in many forms although we sometimes only recognise the political or religious ones………behind every fundamentalist is an agenda – usually self-serving – usually ego-driven.
    I have no patience with any person or group that is content to put ANY baby at risk at any time………..”wishful thinking ” can be extremely dangerous when dealing with the unknown – in this case, the baby’s state of health at birth….Precious seconds are wasted when dithering about “what to do next” at such a crucial time……………….
    When researching such a site ask yourself – “What are these people trying to prove ? What’s their motive ? Are they making money out of this ?”
    Women’s health and it’s care has improved dramatically in the last 100 years and yet, there are people out there who are incapable of grasping basic medical facts and they want you to join them in their clueless world……with reference to author P J O’Rourke “Fancy living in the Middle Ages ? I have one word to say to you – Dentistry !”

    The most important factor in childbirth is not the midwife, or your “ideal, dreamy, home-experience”, or your partner, or anyone attending the birth or even you – it’s the BABY….. That’s the only person “Mother Nature” is really interested in…lol.

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  20. Heidi

    I’m not a freebirther and I think Mia’s aim, e.g. her stated objective in writing this post, makes sense.

    As a maternity consumer I quite like that I have a range of information available to me on the internet, from the extremes of both Mia’s perspective and Joyous Birth and lots of useful stuff in between.

    BUT if we accept that a freebirther chooses freebirthing because they have total faith in their body and therefore believe it to be the most responsible method of birthing (and that’s pretty clear) what is the difference between that and a woman who puts total faith in her doctor?

    We wouldn’t blame a woman whose doctor or midwife made a mistake for the death of her baby. And nor should we.

    You might argue that putting total faith in a professional is different because of their training and experience. Which makes sense but freebirthers also have a lot of stories about the risks that come with medical interference in birth, and theories that support their decision, so whilst we might still strongly disagree with the conclusion they have come to, I can’t see how that is intrinsically different to a freebirther strongly disagreeing with a birth decision I come to based on my own experiences and knowledge.

    My neighbour was induced by her doctor at 38 weeks because he was going on holiday. She is happy with that because she wanted him there. The baby was fine. Just like it would be in most cases in this situation. But there is a chance that an induction could lead to other interventions which have a small risk of being fatal. Just like freebirthing has a risk of being fatal.

    Now of course we could debate what the percentage risks are and dish out blame based on that but in the absence of any RCTs comparing outcomes of freebirthing in the first world with hospital outcomes it could be argued that we can’t determine what those percentage risks are.

    Personally, from what I’ve heard, I believe that freebirthing is taking a greater risk than birthing with trained attendants. But I don’t know that for 100% certain in every case for every woman.

    I also believe that putting total faith in a professional is taking a greater risk than combining that trust with some research and preparation of your own, but I wouldn’t try to force my way of doing things on women who feel more comfortable birthing trusting their doctor 100% – who am I to know that that isn’t what is best for them????

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    • marijana

      You are highlighting good points there Heidi, however in the case of Janet Fraser the fact is that she had a high risk pregnancy, and according to proffessionals requires attendance of medical staff as well as being in a medical facility, where there is a emergency setting. So just in case something goes wrong, there is a back up. But if a woman decides against medical support despite knowing her actual risks, don’t you think that this is dangerous? As it turned out for Janet Fraser it was.

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      • Heidi

        Hi Marijana
        I don’t really want to share my opinion of this particular case, back in 2009 I was very judgemental of JF and Joyous Birth, so I do totally understand where Mia and others on here are coming from. But for some reason the media coverage this time made me feel ashamed of my previous comments.

        On a side note, I’ve been reading Janet Fraser’s blog and she points out how she has been misrepresented in the media. Worth a read as however much we might disagree with her views she is clearly an intelligent, well-intentioned human being, not the crazy, arrogant monster I think she has been painted as in the media.

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    • mumof4

      She knew there were risks of complications with this baby, but she thought her rights to do what ever she wanted, were way more important than the rights of her baby. It’s that simple, and she paid the ultimate price. Well her baby paid the ultimate price , with her life.

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  21. Mirandarine

    On a side note do you think Miss ‘Anyone who doesn’t have an epiduralised birth attended by 87 obstetricians is a dirty hippie’ is really desperately unhappy about her births? Fuck, she carries on about it a lot. Way more than any homebirthers I know.

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    • Kris2040

      Who is Miss “Anyone who doesn’t have an epiduralised birth…”?

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      • Mich

        I wondered the same thing Kris. Along with who are these people clicking ‘like’ to that comment?? Strange.

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      • Anon

        She could be a Mrs Anyone :)

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      • Mirandarine

        Mia Freedman

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  22. Anonymous

    My one and only birth was traumatic and ended up with my baby needing immediate care.I would have been terrified of giving birth anywhere but a hospital and my son would have died without medical help.

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  23. Mirandarine

    This has to be the ABSOLUTE LOWEST article Mia has written yet and that’s saying something. To insinuate that a woman’s deliberate birthing choices killed her baby is reprehensible. To use a family’s loss and the death of a baby to fuel the birthing wars, provoke comment and sell advertising space makes me feel ill. Imagine someone suggesting that Mia’s good friend Bec’s stillborn baby died as a result of being born in a hospital and the resultant interventions… Inaccurate? Probably. Sickening? Definitely. Just like this article. The Fraser’s deserve a public apology. This behaviour from Mia makes her to birth what Meryl Dorey is to vaccination. An ill-informed, hysterical martyr whose ‘beliefs’ are nothing more than a method to encourage naive, like-minded people to agree with her for her own self-promotion. And she’s probably intelligent enough to have actually researched these topics enough to know that she is desperately inaccurate in most of what she says but she’s in so deep now that she’ll stoop to criticising families who have lost children to make headlines (just like Dorey does with the families who have lost babies to whooping cough). Absolutely disgraceful.

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    • Mich

      http://m.smh.com.au/nsw/babys-death-due-to-rash-mother-says-irate-coroner-20120628-215a2.html

      More of Deputy State Coroner Scott Mitchell’s statement can be read in this article. Mirandarine, do you think he should make a public apology to Janet Fraser and her family?

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      • Mirandarine

        Yes.

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        • Mirandarine

          Nearly every woman takes risks or perceived risks during pregnancy, birth and childrearing. Whether through not having car seats installed properly, eating something with a listeria risk or any number of birth choices. Hell, there is a known risk to gestating babies if you are overweight which could see half of the female population as being negligent should this ’cause’ the death a baby. Finding that a baby ‘could’ have survived under different circumstances is one thing. Calling them ‘negligent’ for their babies death is another.

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          • beansbeansthemagicalfruit

            She was absolutely negligent. I’m not sure how you could even debate that. The majority of women would not consider freebirthing at home after already having one freebirth that required medical intervention. They also would not ‘prepare’ for that freebirth by having a wading pool, homemade cord ties, a towel and a pair of scissors. That’s all they had to deliver Roisin.

            Nearly every woman who chose to freebirth even after all of that would be wise enough to ensure at least one person present would have basic first aid skills. Not to attempt to perform CPR on the side of a pool, only then to move Roisin to a chair. Why didn’t they move her to the floor as they should have? “The placenta hadn’t been delivered so ‘that was as far as she could reach’”.

            As the Coroner said: “Evidently, it occurred to nobody present to clamp and cut the cord and, anyway, Ms. Duce told the inquest, she had not been aware of the ready availability of any equipment to enable her to do so. According to Ms. Duce, further difficulties were encountered in administering CPR because Roisin was slippery and difhcult to hold and, evidently, it did not occur to anybody to wrap her in a towel although there were towels nearby.”

            As much as you might support Janet Fraser (and as I’ve stated earlier in here I truly have to believe most freebirthers are well-prepared and would call for help the second they needed it), it blows my mind that anyone could read the Coroner’s report and think she did nothing wrong.

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          • Lorraine

            You are comparing giving birth (risky in itself) at home with no help, no midwife, in essence making the deliberate decision to put the unborn child at risk, to car-seats and food poisoning? Do you really understand how pathetic and DESPERATE you sound? Talk about LAME arguments…. As I said previously, you sicken me and you should be very ashamed of yourself. You’re defending a woman who made the conscious decision to murder her child, how you even have the nerve to, I don’t know. You disgust me and all or most other mothers and human beings I’m sure! :(

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            • Capricious

              Nope, don’t speak for me. I myself wouldn’t have a freebirth, but this article is not about birth choices, it’s about punishing a Mother who has lost her baby through tragic circumstances. And when we are talking about losing a baby aren’t all the circumstances tragic?

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            • Mich

              Capricious, without a doubt the death of any baby is tragic and heartbreaking. Mia’s article is so far from simply being about punishing one woman. It’s in the hope of creating awareness about the risks of freebirthing, to perhaps help women who are thinking about it and most importantly, to prevent needless death.

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    • Just me

      If in your words that Mia and the Coroner owe Janet Fraser an apology, do you then think that Janet owes the medical staff that she claims birth raped her an apology, or the hospitals and staff that she repeatedly chastises?

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      • Mirandarine

        I can’t see why unless her claims are found to be fabricated?

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        • Just me

          So the coroner who actually investigated the death and reported his findings owes Janet an apology, and so does Mia for having an opinion on the Coroners findings?
          Yet Janet is allowed to voice her opinion on birth rape, how awful hospitals and the medical professionals are, but should not apologise? Seems very one sided to me.

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    • Lorraine

      I think you are absolutely disgraceful, clearly without morals and human decency. It is a FACT that Fraser DELIBERATELY put her UNBORN CHILD at RISK, *KNOWING* how precarious her pregnancy was. She in essence, MURDERED her child. And its about time you woke up and saw it, too. Fraser owes a public appology for murdering her child, and she should be sent to jail. You nauseate and DISGUST me Mirandarine, and you should be very ashamed of yourself.

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  24. caramel80

    I had to chuckle at “have outrageous wild sex (or quietly make love)”. I have not experienced child birth but cannot believe that mums feel like doing this when going through labor…….

    Could I get a rebuttal please if I am wrong? I am off to ask my mother *chuckle*

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    • Lindy

      Me either, can u let me know what your mum says lol

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    • Bec

      Yeah, i’ve had two kids – one induced and one blissfully with an epidural – during neither did i feel like sex – -considering i was chucking my guts up during both might have put my hubby off though…. But i did propose to the anethesist when he gave me the epidural….

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  25. Anonymous

    Silly women like to jump on the ‘trendy’ bandwagon and if Freebirthing is trendy, women will adopt it. But I think its INCREDIBLY SELFISH. Childbirth is not about you, its about YOUR CHILD. Your child’s health,safety and wellbeing must come FIRST, not your selfish need to be cool, ”unique’ or an ‘individual’. You can be as ‘relaxed’ as you want at home in a pot of water but if the end result is your baby dies through drowning or inadequate care, or a sudden unforseen birthing emergency, then as far as I’m concerned, you’re a murderer. Plain and simple. And at least, should be charged with manslaughter. At the very least. Because you put your selfish needs before the LIFE of your unborn child. The practice should be made illegal, and any deaths deemed manslaughter with a jail term. Am sick of some women putting novelty before a child. Childbirth is a very serious issue. You are bringing a human being out into the world, not bathing a stuffed animal. Its a child, its not a toy. A child deserves the very best of care. Not to have its safety and wellbeing compromised and disregarded for some cheap trendy novelty of the time. Its murder. Plain and simple. If you can’t give your child the very best at least on the day they enter the world, don’t have children because you don’t deserve to be a mother. Period.

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    • Faybian

      Look, I don’t defend the ridiculousness of free birth, but I’m really tired of people saying the birth is all about the baby. It’s not. It’s about both mum and baby.
      Also, the absolutes of how wonderful the hospital system is and how bad any type of homebirth is gets to me too. The majority of doctors and midwives are great and make good decisions the majority of the time, but not all the time. Health care is still an art as well as a science and it isn’t unheard of for women to be traumatised by their experiences in hospital.
      Please settle down and try not to use such emotive language as murder etc. it does nothing to convince those on the other side of the fence.

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      • Lorraine

        Lol, I think most thinking people would consider the birthing ‘experience’ for the mother to be SECOND to the child. After all, it is about *child*birth. The *safe* birthing of a child. The mother is already born. We are talking about bringing a LIFE into the world, and that takes far more consideration than the mothers ‘experience’. I would have thought that would be common sense, but apparently, common sense is not all that common anymore. Nobody is saying that hospitals are wonderful or 100% perfect, but they are a darn site safer than giving birth at home with not even a midwife, that is plain pure common sense. I agree with Anonymous it is murder. Right or wrong, harsh or not, that is the bottom line. It is murder.

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      • Anonymous

        Great response.

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  26. mid 30s life

    I can safely say that with my first baby I did NOT innately know how to give birth. I’m not proud of it but I really, really panicked. I ended up with a healthy baby in my arms and so I’m eternally grateful for the support that got me thorugh labour. So what if it was in a hospital? By all means give birth at home if that’s what you’re comfortable with – I have friends who wouldn’t have it any other way. But at least have a qualified midwife with you! PLEASE!!

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  27. Rach L

    Mia, you’re entitled to your opinion, but I think that the author Kate in this blog has a much more refreshing perspective than the one you’ve demonstrated when it comes to pregnancy, labour and birth.

    http://networkedblogs.com/z7PpE?a=share

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    • Anonymous

      Thanks for posting that!

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  28. mumof4

    Even after the tragic death of her little baby girl, Janet Fraser just comes across as defiant. I just wanted to see some sign of emotion . ( this is just my opinion though and I know she must be feeling the loss)

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    • Anonymous

      I think women like her are selfish animals. She couldn’t put aside her opinions for the sake of the life of her own child. When it comes to giving birth, your needs come LAST to the baby. If you can’t make a sacrifice and at least have a midwife there, you don’t deserve to be a mother. She is a selfish, selfish woman who puts HER wants before the life of an innocent child. That says a lot about what trash she is. No regard for an innocent life. No regard for any one but her selfish fetishes and phases.

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  29. timelady

    I have had a home birth. An informed, supported by a highly qualified, experienced, pragmatic midwife. With baby no 3, after two uncomplicated births. I was examined by two obstetricians at the hospital, who thought I was an excellent candidate and I was 10 minutes from the major hospital. My midwife made it clear – at the VERY FIRST SIGN of complication, the merest hint of one, was going to be rushed to the hospital whether I objected or not.

    After losing two daughters midway through pregnancy, and three miscarriages, when unexpected but joyously welcome daughter was due, and found to be breech, hospital was my only path, and I ended up needed a caesarian. I was hoping for a VBAC with the bonus baby, small lad, but I presented myself at the hospital feeling very unwell – and both baby and I nearly didn’t make it. But 9 years later, I have five magic offspring, and no regrets for anything about their births.

    My delightful midwife said (after the first c-section), look, all babies are born the way they are meant to be. Don’t every focus on the birth, the baby is the outcome you really want to think about. So I am pro home births in very considered cases. I think freebirthers are like antivaccers – terrifying.

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    • Just me

      Love what your midwife said “all babies are born the way they are meant to be”

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    • Anonymous

      No offence but how were you a perfect candidate for home birth after losing two daughters midway through pregnancy, and three miscarriages? That sounds like high risk to me..

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      • timelady

        Either I wasn’t clear enough earlier, or you have somehow misunderstood…so lets fix that.

        The homebirth with no 3 (after 2 extremely standard hospital births) was all good, every doctor, midwife, and professional happy for us.

        THEN I lost two little girls halfway through, just died in utero, plus 2 miscarriages. By the time my youngest two made it to viable (ie hey were going to be born at term), you could not have moved me from a hospital, as I was now high risk AND terrified. And a good 6 years older, nearly mid 30s.

        Hope that is clearer.

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  30. Sydney girl

    Two things here:

    Janet Fraser has decided her daughter was stillborn. The coroner held she was born alive. Fraser does not accept this and says the whole thing is a witch hunt. This is because Janet Fraser is in fact a charismatic cult leader who devalues the life of babies.

    Secondly, Mia, you’re trying to make sense of the actions of a crazy person. Fraser was well prepared for her baby to die. As we can see from one of her acolytes above, there is a well established belief on Joyous Birth that some babies die and that a dead baby is better than a cut mother.

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    • Mich

      Where did you read this? I hate to bring up this point in our discussion but I read that she applied for a birth certificate a death certificate and the baby bonus.

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      • beansbeansthemagicalfruit

        Mich – Sydney Girl’s correct but you are too. She did apply for a birth certificate in order to get the baby bonus but this was after telling doctors at the RPA the cord was pulsing when Roisin was born. She later recanted that statement. I tried to do a post last night with quotes and pieces from the Coroner’s Report but it wouldn’t display despite trying several times.

        However here’s this from the Telegraph: “Phillip Strickland, representing Ms Fraser and her partner Trevor Stokes, said the inquest should not be heard because the parents maintain the little girl was stillborn – and the Coroner cannot investigate a death unless it has been proven the person was born alive. But Ms Rees (counsel assisting the Coroner) said that Ms Fraser told doctors at RPA that she had detected a pulse in the umbilical cord just after the birth. The inquest heard Ms Fraser now believes there was no pulse, and that she had taken it at a time of ‘high agitation.’”

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        • Mich

          Thanks beans beans for the clarification. Sorry to question you sydney girl. It’s truly a complex and heartbreaking case.

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      • Faybian

        You have to register any birth (alive or not) of a baby that is greater than 20 weeks gestation and thus are entitled to the baby bonus. Those unfortunate enough to have stillborn babies or NNDs may use the bonus to pay for a funeral and the associated costs. So Janet Fraser probably did do both these things.

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    • Anon

      That is utterly incorrect and a very cruel statement. Show me one example of Joyous Birth proffering the opinion that a dead baby is better than a cut mother.

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  31. colleen

    A wonderful friend of mine working in Sudan has just this week seen the ink on the document to educate more midwives there. In a city of 1million, there is 1 midwife. ONE. This area has the highest mortality rate for women giving birth. How do these statistics line up with freebirthing “our bodies will tell us what to do” thinking. Rhetorical question because these sorrowful statistics do not line up with clear thinking.

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  32. Heidi

    As a mum who is routinely attacked by neurotic fears regarding the safety of my children and unborn baby, and had an accidental freebirth (baby came quickly) I can relate to the passion on both sides of this debate.

    What I’m about to say is not intended to justify or encourage freebirth, merely attempt to explain the desire behind it (from my limited personal experience & perspective).

    Birthing alone is not something I would have chosen to do. But when it happened I was not afraid because my midwife had brought up the possibility of the birth occurring prior to her or the other midwives arriving(it was a hospital homebirth trial & there was supposed to be 3 midwives present). We didn’t think that was likely at the time as my previous labour involved days of contractions but she said if it did then not to worry as fast labours are usually uncomplicated.

    As it turned out, freebirthing ‘felt right.’ Like an instinct. I can’t really explain it any better than that and I could never have understood it unless it happened to me so I don’t for a moment expect anyone else to.

    When I expressed this to my current midwife (who, like Mia, recieves hate mail from some of the Joyous Birthers for commenting in the media on the risks associated with freebirthing and high-risk homebirthing) she suggested that it may go back to our animal ancestry, and used the example of a chimpanzee who has to find somewhere safe to birth and does it in solitude.

    I just googled & found this http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110419/full/news.2011.247.html. Quite interesting! The scientist says about chimps birthing alone “pregnant females do not like company when they give birth. “They get very nervous,”"

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  33. Lila

    And Miranda ‘I had a drug-free birth’ Kerr shares more birthing wisdom
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2169435/I-didnt-want-drugged-baby-Miranda-Kerr-decision-epidural-son-Flynns-birth.html

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    • Rach L

      Why attack Miranda? Her reasons are well supported by quality research as documented in the Cochrane Review. She is entitled to give her baby the best start in life – and research indicates that avoiding any type of drugs is exactly that. Put the knives away, for goodness sakes.

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  34. Freyja

    OMG how many times???
    For the most part, people dont choose this kind of birth just to get at or shock others. Just let people decide for themselves, the outcome doesnt affect you personally, so why get so up in arms about it every time there’s a death? How about all the hospital misadventures that occur with frightening regularity?
    With any birth, there are no guarantees- at any stage, rather like the rest of life.

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  35. FuFu

    My baby girl arrived on Sunday via an emergency C Section. The care and attention and help and information I received over 5 days in the hospital was incredible. They saved both our lives and I couldn’t care less, who or what intervened. To medical staff and intervention I say THANK YOU.

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    • The Original Steph

      What an inspiring story, and it is so refreshing to hear a mother show thanks and gratitude to our medical professionals, rather than moan about how oppressive they are.
      These midwives and obstetricians are often wokring around the clock, away from their own children, helping ours be delivered safely.
      Congratulations on your little one.

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  36. Bronwyn

    Reading the post (which is great BTW & agree 100%) but it got me thinking about what could happen. Is the following scenario possible

    High risk (or higher risk) 2nd or third time mum decides after unpleasant hospital birth to Freebirth. Has baby at home without medical assistance and baby dies shortly after taking first breath because of a problem.

    Could the mother be charged with manslaughter? Could having knowledge of a birth being high risk equate to criminal negligence. Once a baby has taken a breath legally it is recognized as a person and also has rights.

    What do you think?

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    • Anonymous

      What about if a woman just doesn’t make it to hospital on time? But people suspect her of deliberately staying at home? What if a woman goes camping or even on a day trip way out into the countryside at 37 or 38 weeks and goes into labor early and can’t make it to a hospital? Where do you draw the line? Should all women be admitted to hospital and induced early? Should all women agree not to travel a certain distance from hospitals in the last weeks of pregnancy? Should all women who give birth out of hospital be charged, even if it was not planned? How do you prove it was planned? I think if it was made illegal women would just claim it was unplanned and they didn’t have time to get to hospital and the only way to get round that would be to charge all women who give birth outside hospital even if they say it wasn’t their plan.

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      • Kris2040

        Way to go hysterical, Anonymous. I think it’d be a pretty good indicator if they hadn’t been to see midwives, booked in to the hospital or a got the services of a reputable midwife.

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        • Esther

          All right, it’s me. Not that it makes any difference.
          Why are you calling my hysterical? I think they are good points. It would be nice if you could comment without being insulting, it’s not necessary.

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          • Kris2040

            You’ve just listed a bunch of stuff that might happen. I did give a suggestion as to how it might be worked out.

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            • Esther

              I know, that’s a good point that I didn’t think of. I just think you could make your point without ridiculing me: ‘way to go hysterical, Anonymous’. Your tone often comes across as quite aggressive, in my opinion. Not just here, but also with other people you’ve disagreed with.

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            • Kris2040

              When I read your post, it was like a slippery slope argument. When you read questions on top of each other, the way you wrote it, it does feel hysterical.

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      • Bronwyn

        Anonymous/Esther … I understand you point but I agree with Kris2040 and this was meant as both a ethical and legal question.

        I was referring in the example to a person that could be proven to have chosen a freebirth option where they either had a pregnancy where there were complications or a previous birth with complications or have a reason to suspect that this pregnancy would have higher risk and evidence. Evidence to demonstrate that their was a choice to not attend hospital such as mentioned by Kris2040 or even posts on websites supporting freebirth.

        My question is that when this is the case … and they make a conscience choice to home birth without medical assistance and it results in the death of a baby (and where that baby draws breath) could that equate to criminal negligence? (Criminal negligence is a ‘misfeasance or ‘nonfeasance’, where the fault lies in the failure to foresee and so allow otherwise avoidable dangers to manifest.)

        From an ethical position I am not sure what I think and my first reaction would be not to charge a grieving mother. But from a purely legal one (and I am not in anyway a lawyer or a legal professional of any kind) but I think this is possible.

        If there are any legal types reading .. what do you think? Could a mother be charged as a result of a home birth gone wrong?

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        • Mich

          I’m interested to know the opinion of a legal brain too.

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      • Sullivanthepoop

        I think that is why no one has ever made any laws against the mother in these cases. I had one of those pregnancies for my last that the entire labor lasted 4 hours. I was very effaced, very early and they kept telling me not to wait for my water to break or my contractions to get regular because I would end up giving birth in an elevator or the car. My labor kept stopping and starting, so I could have easily waited too long.

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  37. Anon

    “Mothers should have the baby’s safety at heart when making birth choices”
    Firstly, here’s a thing. No woman, after safely gestating their baby for almost 10 months, thinks to themselves “I just want to have this particular kind of birth. I don’t really care what the outcome is for the baby”. So I think we can safely assume that all mothers want a positive outcome for their baby.
    Secondly, women frequently make decisions about their pregnancy, labour, birth and parenting which are not based on optimal outcomes for the baby, but for their own comfort, or to meet their own needs. There is a complex interplay between “what’s best for the baby” and “what’s best for the mother”. No one decides to have a pethidine injection or an epidural because it’s best for the baby. No one decides to induce a perfectly normal and healthy 38 week pregnancy because it’s best for the baby. No one decides to use a scalp clip to monitor the baby’s heart rate in labour because it’s best for the baby. These choices are made for the mother’s comfort. And yet when a baby dies following an induction of labour or an elective caesarean, no one blames the mother of selfishly causing her baby’s death by making a choice to promote her own wishes.
    The idea of making freebirth illegal or charging bereaved mothers for having babies who die during or shortly after birth is just plain ridiculous. Hands up who’d like to suspend their rights to decision making during pregnancy? Hands up if you’d like the opportunity to be thrown in jail for the crime of having a dead baby? Hands up if you’d like the police to use their limited time and resources forcing women into hospital births against their will? State-mandated care for everyone! What happens when the tide turns and “they” decide that “selfish” choices like epidurals and inductions are no longer socially acceptable?
    I would defend your right to make these decisions to the very end because I believe that every single woman has a right to make decisions about her own health and care at all times – even if they are not the decisions that I would make myself.
    Mothers are charged with the responsibility of making decisions on behalf of their babies, and I can assure you that no one cares more about the outcome of a birth than the baby’s mother. And when a baby is lost, no one grieves that loss more than the mother. How about extending a little compassion and suspending your judgement for a moment?

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    • Mich

      Is that you Rachael?
      I think the point has gone beyond a woman’s choice to freebirth or to police it or the grief Janet is obviously going through. I think we now need to be focusing on vulnerable women receiving ALL the information and support they need when looking at freebirth as an option.
      I’m interested to know if you (as a feminist) think this is a good idea. I found no mention of Roisin’s death in Janet’s website. At least when you google Joyous Birth reports outlining her guilt appear.

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      • Anon

        You think there is a shortage of information available to women as to why freebirth might not be a good idea?

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        • Mich

          I think there is a shortage of information on the Joyous Birth website. I think woman attracted to what Janet preaches are vulnerable and I also think she is very persuasive.

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          • Anon

            In that case it’s probably lucky that Joyous Birth isn’t the only website available for people to access then isn’t it. And FYI, feminists aren’t in the habit of “preaching” any one choice – they’re in the habit of “preaching” that women’s choices should not be restricted. No one is actually being encouraged to freebirth. It’s simply one of the myriad of options available.

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            • Mich

              Woman looking to freebirth need professional mental help not people supporting their right to choose.

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      • Mich

        *correction, sorry I should have said that reports outline she was responsible not guilty.

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      • Anon

        I’m curious as to why you feel Janet should discuss her personal experience with the public. It’s a private matter. And at any rate anyone who reads newspapers or watches the news would doubtless be aware of her loss. The coroner’s report has formed part of the public record.

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        • Kris2040

          She puts it out there. She advocates for freebirth. If I was silly enough to consider it, I’d want to know my advocate’s experience with it and knowledge of it.

          If she’s got her own website, about birth and birthing issues, and proffers info about birth and options, I think she should answer questions and criticism.

          http://janetfraser.id.au/blog/

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          • Anon

            It’s called free speech. I think we can all agree that we enjoy the benefits of it.

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            • Kris2040

              Eh? How does free speech negate questions?

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    • Hayley

      Anon, I don’t think you know enough about birth choices. I was told I had to have an epidural because I have epilepsy and if I went into seizure during birth (unlikely but dangerous) then I could harm my baby. I agreed only because it was my first baby and I didn’t know what kind of pain I was going to experience.
      I didn’t have the epi for my comfort, it was for my son’s safety. I would never go free birth, in my opinion, it’s reckless in the extreme.

      Good article Mia, well written.

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      • Amandarose

        most people have it for comfort( me included) I think her argument is valid. She wasn’t saying those choices are bad but that we deserve the right to have them. You may be an exception to her point but in most cases her point is valid.

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    • AP

      You make some good points. I think making midwives more accessible for women who are desperate to freebirth would help. In some circumstances, midwives are deemed unable to attend a birth and may lose their registration if they do. Better a midwife at a birth than no one at all. Also, if more hospitals offered continuity of care and flexible women centred birthing options, maybe freebirthing women would actually want to birth in them. It is all well and good to judge risky freebirthing women, but if we do judge, i think we place a responsibility on ourselves to improve hospitals and make them more enticing.

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      • Bree

        AP – I’m intrigued by your comment “Better a midwife at a birth than no one at all.” It implies somehow to me that midwives are not trained professionals who know as much about birth as any obstetrician. The difference between an OB and a midwife is surgical training basically (when birth moves into interventions and caesarean). Having a midwife at a birth is ALL the average birth requires, though even that is not ‘required’ for a woman to actually give birth. It is the woman that gives birth after all, not the support team she chooses to have with her. Just a thought.

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    • Rach L

      “No one decides to have a pethidine injection or an epidural because it’s best for the baby. No one decides to induce a perfectly normal and healthy 38 week pregnancy because it’s best for the baby. No one decides to use a scalp clip to monitor the baby’s heart rate in labour because it’s best for the baby. These choices are made for the mother’s comfort.”

      Thank you, Anon. You make a valid point that is often overlooked because if it happens in a hospital, it must be okay. Agree 100%!

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    • Sullivanthepoop

      Actually inductions and continual fetal monitoring are done because it is best for the baby.

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  38. Sarah Humphreys

    I think a couple of people are bundling freebirth/homebirth/waterbirths together which isn’t the case. I definitely don’t advocate freebirthing but a birth which is attended by a trained midwife is a lot different. I had a beautiful natural birth with my lovely midwife in hospital but if some women choose to do this at home with medical supervision then that’s very different. Although personally I felt very comfortable in hospital, relieved to be there actually :)

    As much as I don’t like to think about it, it hurts my heart to say… Babies die in hospitals too. It saddens me and scares me and fills me with gratitude for my healthy baby boy. But after five days of labour it does seem like the call should have been made to get some help getting that bubba out. It’s tragic.

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    • Anon

      The labour wasn’t 5 days long – this urban legend was incorrectly published by the Age.

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  39. Julie

    The women who believe in ‘free-birthing’ need to read ‘Hospital by the River’ to appreciate what we have here. They also need to realise that giving birth is not only about the mother, but about giving life to a new human being.

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  40. Minty

    Say it once, say it 1000 times. Yo can have a natural birth in hospital, where medical help is a second away if needed.

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    • AP

      Hmmmm. Yes and no. There are some hospital protocols that make it hard for anyone but a low risk women to have a natural birth. Women are often required to have continuous monitoring, which can make it hard to birth in a comfortable position. Often labours are augmented due to slow progress. Most hospitals make you jump through whoops to have a physiological 3rd stage. Yes, you can have a natural birth, but there are a lot of barriers to overcome to achieve it.

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      • B

        AP, I had a ‘natural’ (I hate that term) birth for my 2nd boy (almost 4 months) at a busy metro Brisbane hospital and I didn’t have to jump through one hoop. None. At. All.
        I didn’t have a birth plan, arrived at the hospital, met my midwife, dilated, had a baby. Birthed in a position I felt comfortable in. Only monitoring was a stethoscope listening to baby’s heartbeat occasionally. Asked me if I wanted to let the cord pulse (“I don’t care, do what you think is best, I need a rest,” I wheezed). Asked if I wanted an injection or let the placenta deliver naturally. “Injection. Please let this be over. I want to close my legs.”
        What hoops are there to jump through? What can be considered more natural than that?

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      • Jenny

        Things such as monitoring are for the baby’s safety. Are you serious?

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        • AP

          You can have intermittent monitoring instead of continuous monitoring. I am not suggesting no monitoring at all.

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      • Kris2040

        What are the lots of barriers you need to overcome to have a vaginal, unmedicated birth in a hospital?

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      • beansbeansthemagicalfruit

        “There are some hospital protocols that make it hard for anyone but a low risk women to have a natural birth.”

        I’m all for natural birth and home birth. But if you’re designated high risk, you’re high risk for a reason. I don’t understand why someone who had a high risk pregnancy would care about how long a monitor was on them. Wouldn’t you just want to get your baby out as safely as possibly for you both even if that meant forgoing some of your birthing preferences?

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      • Mischybee

        I had two ‘natural’ births and uneventful pregnancies.
        Both we’re five weeks premie and both needed breathing and other medical support immediately after. I will be forever grateful to the midwives and OBs who helped me bring my two into the world with minimal but just enough medical support to SAVE their lives. This is both my experience and that of three of my sisters – I suspect this is most people’s experience – just being there if needed – no more no less. Why would anyone choose to put their and their babies lives at risk by not having even a check-up?

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  41. anon

    As the father of a little boy who died shortly after birth, I simply cannot understand how anyone could endanger the life of their child. Parents are supposed to protect their kids, not put them in dangerous situations.

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    • anon

      Actually, I would have lost 2 more kids and wife if it wasn’t for medical intervention.

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  42. George

    Bravo Mia! Aside from some comments such as those from the extremely “confused” Oliando, it’s comforting to see so many posts of support on here. Thanks for making mums aware of that load of rubbish!

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  43. Eternally Greatful to My OB&GYN

    He saved my daughter and myself (after several miscarriages) and now as I am pregnant again I cannot imagine risking our family.. Mia I am totally behind you with all of these articles xx

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  44. Girlnextdoor

    Mia, why don’t you put out an article with some facts/statistics on this. There must be some somewhere that show rates of deaths for both mothers and babies in these situations ie third world or from the past. I vaguely remember a fact that the number one cause of death for women used to be childbirth. I say counteract with factual information. I know I would have died in childbirth were it not for medical intervention. Our doctors are so fantastic, we are so lucky to live in this time. If they are given cold hard facts then they can still make up their own minds but at least hopefully they are fully informed.

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    • Anonymous

      It wouldn’t work. Many women in the third world die during child birth because they have underlying problems from being malnourished or having untreated diseases. The same goes for statistics from the past, women died during child birth because they had problems like rickets from being malnourished. Also many women in the past (early 20′th century) died in hospital from child birth fever because of the poor hygiene in hospitals back then.
      If you were going to use statistics they would need to be current and from a similarly healthy group of women for them to be relevant to us in Australia.

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  45. aussietrudes

    I lost a baby boy at 28 weeks. He was born with severe hydrocephalus resulting in brain damage. The health professionals who guided us & counselled us through this horrendous time were amazing. I am so grateful I had their knowledge & expertise to rely on. I was again grateful 2 years later when I gave birth to my (now 15yo) daughter. They were respectful & knew the emotional baggage I bought to this birth. I could not have asked for a better outcome. A beautiful, healthy daughter. Pure & simple.

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  46. For real?

    Honestly, guys. The picture of a woman giving birth in the blow up pool is a bit confronting. I don’t think it should be up.

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    • Googler

      Why?

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    • Faybian

      Blow up pools are used for homebirths in a lot of countries and deep, wide baths are in a lot of birth suite rooms. Lying in water during contractions is a great non pharmacological form of pain relief.

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      • Catherine

        Just out of curiosity, what is it about water that helps during birth? Is it the warmth?

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        • zepgirl

          Yep, the warmth is helpful. Also, because water increases bouyancy, it can take pressure off the cervix. One of the biggest things is that it can help the woman to relax (as you do in a bath!) and to ‘loosen up’, which is nothing but helpful in during birth.

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          • Catherine

            Yeah I’ve always wondered if it sort of relaxed the muscles a bit. Thanks :)

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            • zepgirl

              My pleasure!

              It’s about the best non pharmacological pain relief you can get. Some people call it the ‘natural epidural’ which I think is overstating the effects somewhat, but if you’re going for a drug free birth, it’s about the best option available.

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            • Faybian

              Hey, I didn’t need to answer.
              The only thing is that pressure on the cervix is good for a quicker labour and that of course, creates more pain. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

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      • Desert girl

        Perhaps I’m not the norm, but when I sat in a bath while having contractions it did nothing to stop the pain, it wasn’t comforting or relaxing. Apart from being able to pee in the bath rather than go to the loo, it was about as useful to me as the pile of DVDs I was going to watch and the CDs I was going to listen to. But perhaps I’m not the norm…

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        • Siobhan

          I’ve come across other women who have had a similar experience to you, Desert girl, but also know lots of women who’ve found the bath a great help. I spent a good deal of my labour with both my sons in the birthing pool (my second son was born in the water), and found it very helpful in easing the pain (though certainly not eliminating it) and helping me relax. It’s definitely a personal thing, but I think it’s worth trying, as lots of women do find labouring in a bath is a great form of pain relief during labour.

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          • Kris2040

            I was all set to give the big bath a go but didn’t get a chance! I figured as I love swimming and being in water I would like it, but I was also fully expected to hate it as well. You never know!

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            • Siobhan

              For sure – I’m not a fan of cold baths, so I was continually asking the midwife to add more hot water to the bath. I can see how some people might not like the idea of labouring in water, but like you Kris, I love swimming, so I found it very relaxing (well as relaxing as labour can be!).

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        • Sarah

          I’m the same – I got very very stressed in the bath, but stayed there for longer than I should have because all I’d heard was that it helped with the pain. It didn’t at all and all my stress made it so much worse. I found I couldn’t regulate my temperature – I was either too hot or too cold and it was gross floating round in my own blood (my waters had broken).
          For my second birth I wouldn’t even have a shower and refused to take my shoes off and leave solid ground (even when naked and pushing).

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          • Kris2040

            I was happy to give the bath and shower a go but I have a feeling I would have got stressed out too, Sarah.

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    • Arlycarly

      Um, its an article about birth… believe me it could have been worse.

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  47. sharons

    My sentiments exactly.

    We have amazing health professionals in this country and excellent facilities.

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  48. you can call me susan

    I didn’t choose, nor question the way my gallbladder and my appendix were delivered (removed) after they failed me several years apart., so why should it be different for the delivery of my children? My Doctors providied the safest outcome for me and my children when it came to the delivery of my children, both ecampisia and pre-ecampsia. I don’t care how my children arrived, they just did, safely. I’m not scarred by the way that they arrived, but just grateful that they did!

    Does anyone agree that all we want is a positve outcome from any experience that affects our health, and also that of our children?

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  49. SAHM OF 3

    I have to agree, this topic infuriates me. When I read all of these blogs and experiences on the free birth website its all about me, me, me. The MOTHER wants a natural experience, the MOTHER wants to feel like she has had a “natural” birth drug free, the MOTHER wants to make her own decisions – what about the BABY!!!

    I am a mother to a 2 year old son and 3.5 year old twins that I gave birth to naturally. Thankfully I had a wonderful obstetrician and midwives at the births (at a hospital) who gave me lots of options and were all for having the babies naturally if it was safe to do so. In saying that I would have had no hesitation in having a c-section if it meant they were to arrive here safely. Either way I am still a mum. Give them some credit, it is not easy for the drs, nurses and midwives to go to work every day and tell mums and dads that there is something wrong with their baby through no fault of their own. Why do they get the blame when sometimes life is just not fair and very deserving people lose their babies? You still get choices even if you go to a hospital!

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  50. Anon

    Oh my did I read this right?? You can have wild sex or make love while you’re free birthing?!?!?

    Does that happen?!? Do ppl feel like getting jiggly with it while they are labouring!?!?

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    • anon2

      I’ve had 4 , and I can tell you from my experience, having sex did not even enter my brain.

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      • Mrs K

        If sex didn’t even enter your mind, then obviously you are doing it wrong :P hahahahaha. If my cervix is dilating, and my stomach is contracting in pain as the baby descends through the birth canal, no way do I want penis! But atleast you can’t get pregnant, I guess.

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