BY MESHEL LAURIE
Of course that British lady, Samantha Brick, who thinks that her “beauty” is the reason women don’t like her is a bit odd (you can read more about her here). She has problems and I genuinely feel sorry for her. The publicising of her malfunction is annoying because it perpetuates a myth that I’ve had flung in my face many times by men, which is that woman hate beautiful women.
I have been a woman for almost forty years. I attended an all girl high school, which was quite a bootcamp for bitchiness believe me! I’ve worked as a receptionist in brothels, where looks equate to income almost as transparently as they do in the television industry in which I dabble now. I currently have friends who are among the most celebrated beauties in the country, and I can honestly say that I have never known of a woman being disliked because she is beautiful. I’ve known a few who were disliked because they’re up themselves, but ugly people are just as good at that.
The prettiest girl in our school was Claire. She had long, silky blonde hair and a complexion like warm milk. She was also so very sweet natured, quick with a shoulder to cry on, tight with a secret, and didn’t take herself or her looks too seriously although she was well aware they were there. “You should enter the Dolly Cover Girl competition,” we used to say her, as we were convinced that no one in the world was as pretty as Claire. She would blush and wave us away. She was as smart as she was kind – what I would refer to today as an inspirational woman.
The most beautiful prostitute I ever knew was Tori. She was an exotic 6ft tall, olive skinned stunner, almost a bit Beyonce in those ads where they make her look thinner and whiter. She wore boots like Julia Roberts’ in Pretty Woman and she was transsexual which was not a secret from clients, but her greatest selling point. She was mostly loved by the other girls because she was very sweet, even though she was completely aware that she was by far the most precious gem in our shop. Those who disliked her did so not because of her beauty, but because of the clients they lost to her, and because she was very lazy about cleaning up after herself and yes, that was as gross as it sounds. Everyone was very sad for her though, when her excitement at saving enough money for a trip to Bali turned to sadness and humiliation because she was forced to accept a passport that said “M” for “male”. She dreaded all the times she’d have to show it to people and what their reactions would be. Even the jealous old shaggers took pity on Tori that day despite the fact that she was beautiful, she was going to Bali and she’d left a pile of terrifying towels in the hallway the night before.
Beautiful women in Australian television are completely commonplace of course. Spend enough time around a TV network and you’ll stop marvelling at their teeny tiny designer dresses, voluminous manes of hair and symmetrical, angular faces. You’ll find women like Kerri Ann Kennerly who’s beauty is undeniable but who has appealed to generations of Australian women because of her warmth and wit. Lisa Wilkinson, who’s charm and generosity endear her to millions of strangers. Carrie Bickmore, who’s angelic looks belie an emotional stamina that seems to know no bounds.
Women do not hate beauty in other women. We actually like to gaze upon it as much as men do, otherwise there would be no magazine/fashion/beauty industries. I don’t think anyone is keen on delusions of grandeur though which could be the real reason behind Ms Brick’s lack of dinner party invitations.
Some of the most beautiful women show their true beauty from inside and out. With no delusions of grandeur
Mother Teresa - Founded the Missionaries of Charity in Calcutta and helped the poor and sick for 45 years.
.jpg "Nancy Wake was born in Sydney and served as a British agent during WW2. She became a leading figure in the maquis groups of the French Resistance and became one of the Allies' most decorated servicewomen of the war."){kind=small}
Meshel Laurie is a comedian and broadcaster. You can catch up with her on Nova’s Drive Show with Tim Blackwell and Marty Sheargold 4-6pm on weekdays. You can also follow Meshel on Twitter here.
Comments
134 Comments so far
What she’s saying isn’t completely unheard of. There are studies that back her up: http://www.guyspointofview.com/fat-women-are-lazy-thin-women-are-bitchy-say-other-women/
As for her article, yeah she did come off as a bit arrogant but that is probably to cover up her own insecurities. People often brag about things to bolster their own self confidence. I’m no stranger to that; I know I sometimes say things I ought to keep to myself just to reassure myself. You can see that she is doing the same thing by listing all the men who have given her free things, etc. Her bragging is a form of self-reassurance. She was probably rejected as some point in her life (probably the fact that she had a lazy eye and was chubby younger caused some insecurity, I can relate because I had both as well when I was younger), and to cover up that wound she has to repeat why she’s better not so much to make other people believe it as it is to convince herself that it is true. That is my honest speculation anyway; speaking as somebody who finds myself making the same mistake often. But the way that people react to her is equally revealing: does that not also point out a lot of insecurity on the behalf of the offended people who take her article so personally and feel the need to publicly bash her and put down her looks?
She probably really is pretty in real life; some people just aren’t photogenic. But I don’t see how bashing her is a good idea, it only proves her point, no? It certainly doesn’t help anything.
Besides, people like Jen Davis sharing their experiences of being judged based on their looks are basically doing the same thing; but they are being applauded for it, not ridiculed. I do think that there is a problem; as indicated by these studies, with people judging other people simply based on their looks, both for being pretty or for being ugly. There’s other articles out there that prove the same thing. Either way, it’s wrong.
I wrote an article related to this a little while ago trying to explore the different aspects of the skinny vs. overweight ordeal:
Definition of Beauty: A Defense and Reprimand of the Fashion Industry and Those Who Criticize It-Regarding the Problems of Obesity, Anorexia, and Self Respect
mtgrl.wordpress.com
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Ashley Judd said it beautifully today: “Patriarchy is a system in which both women and men participate… It is subtle, insidious, and never more dangerous than when women passionately deny that they themselves are engaging in it. This abnormal obsession with women’s faces and bodies has become so normal that we (I include myself at times—I absolutely fall for it still) have internalized patriarchy almost seamlessly. We are unable at times to identify ourselves as our own denigrating abusers, or as abusing other girls and women.”
Lets not support denial. That road does women no good at all.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/09/ashley-judd-slaps-media-in-the-face-for-speculation-over-her-puffy-appearance.html
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perfectly said.
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Yep. I do love you Meshel. Yo, she speak de TROOTH!
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I kind of agree with both sides.
I don’t think it can be as simple as women hating women purely because of their looks because looks are so subjective. And there are also all those articles and studies about attractive people getting the jobs and pay rises over less attractive people so it seems to swing both ways.
I think that, most interestingly, this is a comment on the stereotypical roles that women are supposed to fill. We’re all apparently meant to be girly and pretty yet somehow not be aware of our looks or the power they have. We have to act coy and modest while men wolf-whistle and the media bombard us with images of ideal beauty and the power it gives us. To say, as Meshel says, that women enjoy beauty in other women is true, but it’s naive to say that it never wanders into the fields of envy or resentment.
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This. Exactly this.
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I think as a society, we’re ingrained to believe that certain women are “threatening” whilst others are not. Stereotypes play heavily into this as well as shows that we watch. Think Eddie Britt from Desperate Housewives and Samantha Jones from SATC… both blond, blue eyed women who other women feel threatened by and why? Because they’re confident and this, couped with the stereotypically pretty, blond hair, blue eyed, gets mistaken for arrogance. OF course for some people it is arrogrance but the stereotypes don’t really help those living in real life.
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Great article, Meshel – you consistently prove yourself to be awesome.
I am just so baffled about women’s attitudes to other women’s looks. I commented anonymously on Brick’s article, stating that I was good looking and had never found it hampered my friendships with women, because I was a good person and my looks were thus irrelevant either way.
I mentioned that I’m good looking not to get high fives, but because it was utterly necessary for the point I was making – that it doesn’t make women hate you (but a shitty personality might). I specifically made the comment anonymously, because it can sound arrogent and pathetic to call yourself good looking. The result? I got totally slammed for calling myself attractive.
So now I’m confused about what women want for each other. To have low self esteem and low self image? To very secretly have high self esteem and good self image but to never express it?
If a women can’t even anonymously say they’re good looking for the express purpose of making a point about it without getting ripped to shreds by other women then we’re in a lot of trouble.
* I should point out that I wasn’t hurt by the comments, because they had obviously come from people who had missed the point I was making eg why I mentioned my looks. If the comment was misread as me just saying “hey y’all, I’m hot, check me out!” (and the point I was making that it was irrelevant to my ability to make friends was overlooked) then I would have sounded like a tosser and deserved criticism.
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After a few days’ consideration, and a re-read of Samantha Brick’s article, what disturbs me most about it isn’t only what she wrote, but what she *didn’t* write.
If she genuinely meant what she wrote, she will never understand what it’s like to have genuine female friendships – because she doesn’t seem to CARE about what she may have to offer to other women. Not once in her article did she give an example of how she expresses her concern for any other woman except herself (a friendly wave to a neighbour doesn’t count as genuine concern).
Heads-up Samantha: All relationships, including friendships, are built on mutual respect, admiration, and generosity. Sure, most of us will experience unpleasant women at some stage of our lives – I know I have! Sometimes it’s because certain women just haven’t liked me for reasons unknown to me, occasionally because of how I looked (especially when I was “The New Girl” in High School. The boys considered me a novelty because I was someone they’d never perved on before. They used try and use their metal rulers as a mirror to look up my skirt in class. My old school’s uniform was shorter than my new conservative regional High School’s.). But then, other times I know it’s because I’ve acted like an ABSOLUTE TOOL sometimes.
So, if this problem you have with other women is a recurring theme in your life, perhaps you need to take a good look at yourself, instead of blaming 51% of the population for their (cough) “jealousy” of you.
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On Mia’s article today about fancy dress, a woman (“Kersten”) has written this:
“Until I was in my mid twenties, I dressed goth most commonly (unless I was too tired or it was too hot lol). Not to make a statement, just liked the clothes, the makeup and the hair. Figured it was my body and my choice so I kept it up after having kids. I wasn’t a stereotypical miserable goth, I was polite, friendly and outgoing. I just preferred black to floral prints lol.
When my daughter started preschool in one of the more affluent suburbs in town it became more of an issue than I’d have liked. All the mums in her class that year bar two were well off, in their mid to late thirties, and turned up for the school run immaculately dressed and made up. I, on the other hand, was 24, arrived by bus, and looked rather more like the bride of frankenstein than the bride of James Packer. I don’t think I owned anything that wasn’t black. My hair was always either black, purple, red, or a combination of any of the above. And yup, I owned a black trench coat more at home in Underworld than a primary school playground.
The effect on my little girl’s social life was fairly pronounced, although it took a while for thick headed me to pick up on the reason for it. She was never invited to play, and any invitations we extended were declined. She was invited to one party (as the child in question asked the entire class), she was in heaven….I was ignored for the most part until a conversation about holidays came up. After discussing their plans for going away for the summer – some overseas, one mother turned to me and asked where my husband and I would be holidaying. I politely responded that I would be working, and not able to take time off – ignoring the chorus of titters taking place as every woman in the room knew my daughter’s father had just left me. Another mother loudly asked where I shopped and got my hair done, as she was looking for something special to wear….to a Halloween party. Not wanting a scene, I collected my daughter as soon as the party finished and left without another word.”
This woman very quickly received over 30 supportive comments (and/or ‘likes’ for supportive comments). These 2 (different) comments summarise the prevailing view: “I hope you know that those women were dealing with their own unhappy issues when they ambushed you in such a way at that party. So sorry you went through that” and “you go girl. You sound like you are terrific and those women in your daughters kinder group should be deeply ashamed. they are the ones who missed out by not getting to know you and being able to get beyond the superficial”.
I was pleased to see this lovely support, and I agreed with it. However, I was also struck by the contrast between this reaction and the general response to Samantha Brick, or anyone on here who said they’d had a similar experience. How come we’re all so ready to believe that a group of women would react nastily to ‘Kersten’, completely based on her appearance? How come we are willing to believe this would happen because they didn’t think her appearance was good enough, but the overwhelming majority of commenters refused to believe that women could possibly have reacted nastily to another woman because they felt she was too attractive or too well-dressed? How come the comments in ‘Kersten’s” case aren’t saying “this couldn’t possibly have happened, I think you’ve imagined it, it must have been your attitude, you must have done something to deserve it”? To me, their stories are very similar, and I find the different reactions very interesting.
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Beautifully illustrated point. here, here.
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Sorry but I do partially agree with Samantha, while I to am no Elle Mac, I am blonde, blue eyed, tall, voluptuous, with nice skin, I have seriously struggled socially throughout my life… I love all people in life….but I am extremely shy and a little socially retaard..I did not realise until my 30′s that other women probably misunderstood me as being ‘up myself’ as it is assumed by most people that pretty people should automatically exube self confidence….for example it has taken me the last 5 years to get anyone to even chat with me at my children’s school, and over that 5 years I have really put myself out there, which is really hard for me……not fair really
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@ prettysad. The word is ‘exude.’
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Strangely, I travelled for years with my passport accidentally marked ‘M’ for male. I hadn’t noticed, but eventually the Passport Office contacted me and fixed it up. Thinking back, I never had an odd look from any passport checker. Perhaps if I were a a 6ft tall olive-skinned beauty, things may have been different.
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What if we thought we were beautiful? Stunning just as we are, just like Samantha?
What would happen if we didn’t go around thinking pretty girls were only nice if they didn’t know they were pretty, or ran themselves down?
What if we all learned to celebrate our own physical spectacular-ness?!
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Great comment.
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I can see why Samantha might have thought attractiveness is causing her problems. She is much younger the. Her husband and all his circle of friends would be I. Their 50′s. I can see why older women might find a you get more attractive woman a threat especially as they are coming to terms with. Eing older and men being men liking young blond women.
if you keep that in mind along with the paper’s editing most likely twisting what she wrote I think we can lay off her a bit.
World wide vilification is not deserved
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Agreed. Between Yumi Stynes, Rebecca Black and Samantha Brick, there’s some kind of weird momentum that grows when people start really hating women on the internet. It’s a horrible phenomenon.
I’m sure child killers and paedophiles and people who actually commit horrendous crimes don’t get the kind of global hatred these gals receive.
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I am considered attractive by a lot of people, get a lot of attention and never have trouble meeting people to date. I would assess myself as pretty or striking but not model-stunning. I have a friend who is model-stunning (has actually modelled) and is one of the sweetest, most self-deprecating people I know. She has just as many insecurities. And she genuinely believes people aren’t attracted to her- she honestly doesn’t notice the attention. I’ve never felt any jealousy towards her and I doubt her other female friends have either. It’s very interesting (and sad) to think that people might dislike or overlook her simply because she’s beautiful. I don’t doubt that it happens but it really does make me sad. We’re all going to lose whatever appeal we have one day anyway. It’s so shallow and silly.
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This makes me feel so much better about the disgusting Brick article. It’s good to know my views are being represented in the media too
Thanks Meshel!
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I feel kinda sick about all the hatred going Samantha Brick’s way. Yep, i read all her articles, and her views were frankly, a little offensive to me as a woman. But nowhere, nowhere near as offensive as the explosion of anonymous internet fuelled hatred.
And let’s face it, jealousy isn’t a myth.
It’s not.
The sad thing is that women aren’t ever encouraged to think of themselves as beautiful. I don’t mean the kind of self-sacrificing, Mother Theresa type beautiful, i mean the kind of beauty that gets stuffed in our faces with ever flick of the glossy magazine we pick up at the supermarkets. Heaven forbid that a woman might come out and say ‘i’m beautiful’.
If you’re a woman, humility is a necessity to survive in the online environment.
That is the real worry.
Now I’m no expert, but wouldn’t a woman coming out and saying ‘i really believe i’m beautiful’ have been a much braver article to write than simply another ‘silly Samantha Brick and her crazy ideas’.
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I dont think people have reacted so much to the “I am beautiful” element of Ms Brick’s article, so much as to the “all women are jealous bitches” and “all men are mindless slaves to my allure” elements of it.
The comments Iv read havnt really attacked her appearance. Most attacks have been on her horrible attitude.
No-one comes out looking good in Ms Brick’s view of the world. Except herself.
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Great article. However do you really think Madonna has no illusions of grandeur?
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Of course she does. The difference between Madonna and Samantha Brick is, Madonna doesn’t complain about all the other members of her gender hating on her because she’s beautiful.
If a woman complained about all men hating on her for whatever reason, it would be fair to suspect her of misandry – and she’d be expressing it in a way which shifts the responsibility away from herself. For this reason, I think Samantha Brick is a female misogynist who is projecting her misogyny onto other women.
Madonna may have her delusions, but at least she owns them!
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What a great article, and what a gem you are Meshel! x
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Meshel, you are awesome
Would love to sit down for a glass of red with you one day!
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GREAT piece Meshel and I agree with you 100%.
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Great article Meshel. You clearly have ypur head screwed on right on this issue – unlike the unfortunate Mrs Brick.
I checked out her other articles. Very revealing. Among them one on how her husband was very clear prior to marriage that her slimness was the primary reason he was marrying her, and that he would divorce her if she put on weight. And hes no oil painting.
Any woman with low enough self esteem to think this a good deal and that it was appropriate for her life partner to value her waistline above her brain clearly has some self-esteem issues. In all likelihood she doesnt have the confidence to have her own views outside of those of her vile husband, so it doesnt suprise me that there is such a mysoginistic slant to her article about women hating women for their looks.
As Meshel says “No, women are better than that”.
We should feel sorry for Samantha Brick that she has such a low opinion of her own kind, and is convinced that her looks define her value in everyone’s eyes. I would like to tell her to not assume everyone has the same value systems as her husband.
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I’m really surprised by some of these comments. I’m a reasonably attractive person, by no means stunning or beautiful but I’m satisfied by what I’ve got (most of the time!) I was a relatively insecure teenager, but even then I have never disliked someone or written them off as a friend based solely on the fact they were beautiful! Naturally I believe all my friends are beautiful as I love them for who they are, but I also have some extremely physically attractive friends. While I suppose I’ve been envious of them occasionally, but it’s only a passing thought like ‘god I wish I looked like that in jeans!’ but I often think a similar thought when I see any random good looking person. Their looks have never ever interfered with our friendship because they’re amazing people on the inside as well.
Have I disliked beautiful women before? Yes but not because they’re beautiful, because they were rude, arrogant, unfriendly etc, as I have also met unattractive people I disliked for the same reason.
I actually think physically beautiful people are often very well-liked as they are generally confident people who are happy within themselves, which is always attractive to others.
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Dr Fiona Wood is NOT the only female plastic surgeon in WA – get your facts straight Mama Mia.
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I really disagree with this article. There is definitely a form a ” discrimination” against beautiful women. I’m far from a model but I’m attractive. I was 17 and went for an ultrasound, the person doing the ultrasound refused to believe I was a virgin at the time. Apparently I was “too attractive” to still be a virgin at 17 and yes, she told me that!! During my ultrasound!!
I’ve had women make catty comments to me in general, even if I so much as spoke to their boyfriends/husbands. Relax, I’m not interested in them!
I’ve had people assume that I’m stupid, just because I’m attractive (I’m an Honours student doing my Masters)
If I don’t have a boyfriend, they assume and say that something MUST be wrong with me, because I’m attractive enough to have a boyfriend??
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Is that people being mean because you’re beautiful or just picking up on stereotypes? Like that life is easier for pretty people?
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Perhaps it is stereotypes but they would only be based on appearance alone. Many of the people who have made such comments certainly didn’t know me at all.
Maybe the hatred toward beautiful women is caused by stereotypes
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I think all women, beautiful or not, fll into one of two categories: Boys Team or Girls Team. This has nothing to do with their sexuality, but the people they relate to most. Boys Team women, especially beautiful ones, are the ones women find hard to relate to or warm too, and the ones that the husbands usally click with, therefore setting off wives jealousy. I’ve also seen plenty of quite plain girls be very successful with men, becuase they are Boys Team girls.
Girls Team girls can be rich, beautiful, successful, wise, slim and stylish, and women will still love them, because they don’t fall into a competitive space, but relate and click with other women.
This is just my humble opinion, but most people I’ve met seem to fit the theory…
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Hey I like this. and can certainly relate. I’ve always been a ‘boys girl’, and always had a good circle of guy mates. When hubby and I split just over two years ago, I actually had a couple of married female friends stop contact pretty much, I assume because I didn’t have hubby anymore. Sucked, majorly.
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I’ve long thought similar to this. A lot of people can be very attractive to the opposite gender for no apparent reason (ie:not overtly gorgeous or super kind/funny etc). A lot of these people may also have better friendships with the opposite gender, but not all.
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spot on! I’ve often encountered this. very interesting perspective
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After reading every article I could find on Samantha Brick and the many comments from women in both the negative and somewhat defensive. I feel that I am a very rare happily married female who is drawn to attractive women rather than looking on them with hatred and disdain. I take pride in my appearance and make an effort and I really appreciate other women that do the same. I work in the corporate world and there are far too many female executives whom appear to either not care or perhaps they want to blend in with the male execs. So when an attractive, intelligent woman whom has confidence (not arrogance) and takes pride in their appearance enters the office I take notice. I respect the fact that they stand out as being a woman and welcome the fact that they can appreciate fashion, look polished, wear make-up and nail polish and stand their ground with the men. I can’t stand people who judge others by their appearance alone or make assumptions on peoples aptitude for work or intelligence level because of the way the look. You can’t judge a book by its cover!
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Anyone can be deluded. I dated someone who wasn’t even as pretty as Brick, yet she was still bitterly jealous of other women, including me! I had originally been drawn to her for, what I thought, was her beautiful personality, but underneath she was a writhing mass of envy.
This is the heart of the war against women. We don’t hate women because they’re beautiful, and beautiful women don’t feel superior to us for our average looks. Rather we hate women for having ugly personalities or else, we hate other women for forcing us to confront our own insecurities. Personally I don’t hate beautiful women, I’ve dated women and I’ve worked with stunning women (models!). What makes me feel inferior is success. Successful women make me feel as though I’ve never left the sandbox.
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When I was young I looked like a young Sigrid Thornton and was often mistaken for her. The attention I’d get from men frightened me, genuinely frightened me. I found myself on a rollercoaster where I’d put on weight to keep them away and then I’d lose it again but looking back I can see the pattern very clearly. As soon as I got too much attention I’d start piling on the kilos. I probably should have had therapy, in hindsight. I’m very glad to be older and invisible now. There are advantages to fading looks.
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I can really relate to this. As a pretty thin blonde I received way too much attention from men in my teens and twenties (sexual harrassment included, and yes, disliked by many women as well). I’m sad to say that extra weight has been my refuge. It’s not great now as I’m older and have to get rid of some of it for my health. And to be brutally honest, the idea of being slim again frightens me.
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Same. I have to get it off but I’m frightened by it as well.
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Love reading your articles Meshel, always funny and clever. And listening to your radio show with Marty and Tim is the highlight of my day.Keep it up and thank you!
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I love looking at beautiful women.I always have.
The most beautiful women in my eyes, however, are gracious, caring and intelligent.
My two best friends (who i have been best friends with for over 10 years now) are absolutely gorgeous. One of them is a doctor but has also appeared on a TV commercial. My other best friend has a degree in marine biology, modeled in fashion week, and been in commercials for Coke and Vodafone. Not only are they gorgeous outside they are humble, smart and caring but never in a million years would they admit that.
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could not agree more. women aren’t hated because they’re beautful, there’s a million other reasons, including the aforementioned ‘up themselves’ reason. I also think that this gives a horrendous name to women. personally, i could not care less what a girl looks like, and im certainly not despising them because they’re in a bar or something flipping their hair around. hello, can women get a little more credit?? we’re not all fawning overe the blonde beauty in the corner. there are other qualities to be admired.
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Meshel Laurie … I think you are beautiful on the inside and out!
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Love ya guts Meshel.
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Nope. I don’t agree with this at all. TV is an artificial world full of beautiful people who have been recruited because they are attractive beyond the norm. And prostitution? Well, artificial is an understatement in this respect. Your experiences don’t reflect what is going on out there in the real world.
I believe Samantha Brick. She’s blonde and thin and reasonably attractive and in some circles, that is all it would take.
My mother walked through life looking drop dead gorgeous without a lick of makeup or effort on her part. I spent my childhood watching her being attacked, belittled, and generally despised by other women. If she went for a job, potential co-workers would attempt to prevent her from being hired. When she walked into a room, all eyes were suddenly upon her. In the course of an evening, numerous men would approach her and flirt, despite the fact they had partners with them. And the women… many felt so threatened they’d despise her on sight (admit it, you’ve felt like that too. I know I have and have had to work very hard to change it). It was awful to watch and had a profound effect on how I viewed the world growing up as a ‘pretty’ girl.
I’m not beautiful like my mother, but have had some similar moments to these. Putting on a lot of weight helped. I’m still attacked by women in some circles, especially old ones who have lost their looks. I’m not upset by this anymore, I just think it is pathetic, but it has limited my job prospects. Thankfully, younger women don’t behave as if I’m going to run off with their partners anymore (as they did when I was in my twenties). They feel more comfortable with me in general, and I have many more female friends than I used to.
But now I worry about my daughter. She has my mother’s looks, and as my grandmother used to say, ‘I would hate to have your mother’s looks. It is a terrible curse.’ And it really, truly is.
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I don’t agree with this at all. It’s all about how you carry yourself and interact with others. I honestly don’t believe that anyone hates a woman just because she is beautiful. However if you act like you’re beautiful and talk about how your beauty is such a curse, well you might just be right. It’s called a self-fullfiing prophecy.
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I think occasionally, beautiful women may experience social exclusion because of jealousy. It is a real phenomenon.
However, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that beautiful women will be hated by most women, as Sam Brick seems to be saying. Plenty of gorgeous women have a circle of real girlfriends, and based on that, I would say that whilst the jealousy is real, if you’ve no close girlfriends, you need to start looking at your own life.
So basically, I sorta agree with *both* of the above comments.
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Jess, you’re just trotting out cliches. Are you insinuating that my mother was hated because of the way she acted? Because I can assure you she was not. This was not a self-fulfilling prophecy. It was my very real experience growing up with an extremely attractive mother. And my own experience navigating certain situations (not all) as pretty but not exceptionally beautiful.
I can understand if you haven’t experienced the same but to claim that no-one hates a woman because she is beautiful is ridiculous.
Even now I have some female friends who hate certain women because of the way they look. I’m continually reminding them that beautiful women are not, by definition, catty, after your husband or vacuous.
I also have one exceptionally beautiful friend who has a terrible time with other women. Not all, of course, but her work life has been an exercise in surviving jealously, bullying and harrassment. And no, that’s not an exaggeration. She has the legal win and compensation pay out to prove it.
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This is what most of the comments are saying, over and over again. But it just seems like a bit of a ‘get out of jail free’ card to me. It gives permission to women to be as mean as they want about someone, with the excuse that the victim must have brought it on with her attitude and behaviour. This attitude seems too close to the idea that people who are bullied must have caused it somehow. I’ve been reading almost every story on this site, everyday for a long time, and I have never seen anything like the nasty comments that have been made about this topic. It’s like a free for all of mean comments about this woman. And usually the tone of the comments in the mainstream media doesn’t match exactly the comments on Mamamia, but on this topic they’re almost identical. Something about it makes me uncomfortable. (This is a more a reflection about the previous article and comments, than Meshel’s piece.)
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Wow. Well said. I completely agree.
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I really like Meshel’s writing but I have to admit that on this occasion I’m not quite following the logic of the argument in Meshel’s story.
So I’m getting the idea that Meshel is saying that women don’t hate beautiful women. But some beautiful women are disliked because of their personalities and behaviour. For instance, Samantha Brick is disliked not because she is beautiful but because she is full of herself.
And women don’t hate ugly women. But some ugly women are disliked because of their personalities and behaviour too.
So how do you explain stories about children or teenagers who say that they are bullied because they are overweight or have some other physical characteristic which their peers think is ugly?
I think that some people are judged negatively and treated differently because of their appearance.
The argument that women don’t hate beautiful women is as big a generalization as Samantha Brick saying [ALL] women hate her because she is beautiful.
I agree with Sue’s comment, this attitude is too close to the idea that people who are bullied must have somehow caused it. It just gives people and excuse to take Samantha Brick down a peg, or twenty because she brought it on herself.
Don’t be a woman in the public eye like Samantha Brick or Yumi Stynes and make a mistake or show any flaws. Samantha Brick’s story may be genuine and it may not. What is clear however is that the story is troll bait. To me what has been most interesting to observe has been the public outrage over the story, it is so over the top. Some of the comments are far worse than the story at the centre of it.
By the way I am not having a go at Meshel, I think you are great!
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Thank you for saying this so well
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Ive grown up in a female dominated family (dad was the only male apart from the dog) and went to a girls secondary school. As an adult I’ve mostly worked in female dominated workplaces, so I’ve seen the worst of my gender, but I’m a bit confused as to how potential colleagues tried to top someone being hired. I’ve never met any before an interview. Maybe you grew up in a small town. That’s the only explanation I can come up with.
There are some men and women that are despised by their own gender, just as they’re attractive to the opposite gender. Maybe your mother was one of these people.
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I agree that looks go a long way in first impressions. However I don’t believe that anyone can be DESPISED on sight purely for being attractive. There would be very very few instances where anybody could be such a hateful person they actually despise someone instantly because they’re beautiful…
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Fab article Meshel and I agree. I do, however, think people are being a bit harsh on Samantha for saying what she honestly believes, even though her execution was confronting and ignorant. I think people are in such a flap about it because she acted just the way that women don’t like other women to behave, conceitedly. It makes us question, even for a second, that because we don’t have that confidence maybe we are doing something wrong. As an aside, I think we can also all benefit form a bit more self love, albeit not to that extent.
I believe women are intimidated by other women who are beautiful or more successful or more popular etc, but that is only an initial knee jerk reaction to our own insecurities. I admit to feeling like this when I meet/see a beautiful woman but the second she shows me kindness, warmth or a similar positive traits that perception fades. This can be immediate, or once you get to know them better. Or, if they show a sign that they aren’t superhuman we tend to relax (check out the cover of magazines promoting “real” celebrity bodies if you don’t believe me). That doesn’t mean we like them more because they are flawed, but it means we can relate to them in a way most of us can’t with those who are arrogant.
In summary, I agree that beautiful women can sometimes cause other women to back off a bit at first, but once they unveil a positive personality, the perceived ice queen facade fades. As Meshel highlighted, the most beautiful women she has come across are not hated because of their looks, they are loved because they are kind and have positive values.
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Beautiful women (stunningly beautiful women) get my attention. They are lovely to look at, as is a stunningly beautiful man. I stare. I can’t help it … who the hell gave them those genes?
But you know, most of the time they tend to ruin the attraction. Yep, they open their mouths – and either total venom comes out, or utter stupidity!
Oprah Winfrey, whilst not the most attractive woman on the face of the earth has a business head to die for – however she is so far up herself she is nearly inside out – yet it’s her audience of millions of women that have made her the superstar that is Oprah. Do I hate her? No. Do I aspire to be like her? No.
Miranda Kerr – one of the most stunning women on the face of the earth – is someone I would hope my daughter would aspire to be like. She is a lady, she is a business woman, and she appears to be as beautiful on the inside as she is on the outside. I don’t know her personally, but until she opens her mouth and says something vile or stupid – she can stay on the pedestal I have placed her on.
Looks, skin deep. I refuse to believe that any intelligent woman would “hate” another woman because she is beautiful. NOTICE I MENTIONED THE WORD INTELLIGENT! Please don’t confuse these women with the school yard bullies who target a girl for being beautiful.
Samantha “Thick As A” Brick has a huge problem with her ego. I think she needs propping up and she has found the crutch to do it with through a story about herself – boo hoo!
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Reallyy???! Have you read or heard any interviews with Miranda Kerr? I find her annoyingly conceited and hypocritical. She proclaims this image of all natural earth goddess but lives a contradictory rich and famous lifestyle full of jetting around the world and strutting down catwalks in underwear. What has she actually achieved? Her fame is based entirely on her looks!
On the other hand Oprah is in my eyes one of the most inspirational women in the world. She came from abject poverty, experienced abuse and the death of her unborn baby as a teenager in a time where African American women could aspire to little more than to be maids. She is now a billionaire, one of the most famous women in the world and has helped countless people along the way. I find her quite humble actually but even if she is conceited she’s got a reason to be!
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I am seriously baffled about your opinions on Oprah and Miranda Kerr.. Oprah’s achievements are insane. She inspires people all over the world. She gives millions to charity. She grew up dirt poor in a time where racism and sexism was rife. Her success based on the environment she was born into is unimaginably impressive. In everything I have seen her in she hasn’t come across as being up herself to me. She uses her power and wealth to help change the world in so many ways.
Miranda Kerr is a beautiful women who models clothes and has her own cosmetics line.
I don’t even understand how it occurs to you to compare them. Even if you dislike Oprah as a person, objectively her achievements are monumental compared to anything that Miranda Kerr has done.
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I would absolutely die of shame if my daughter aspired to be Miranda Kerr over Oprah. The Miranda Kerr we see and hear is completely a made up persona put together by a very shrewd businesswoman. She sells the idea that all you need to be beautiful is a beautiful personality and a healthy lifestyle. Her answers in interviews are incredibly guarded by sugar-coated phrases about ‘inner beauty’ despite having built a career on her external beauty.
I want my daughters to look up to people who campaign for women’s rights and equality not someone who tells people that beauty can be obtained by drinking noni juice everyday.
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What a lovely article! Happy Easter to all!
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Fantastic article, Meshel – all totally true. Beauty teamed with humility is a lovely match.
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If you read The Economist there is a fascinating article that touches on this topic. Article is called “Don’t hate me because I am beautiful” (31 March 2012). The article comments on research that found that attractive women are less likely to get an interview if they include a photo with their job application. Why? The researcher’s conclusion is that the HR departments of the companies the subject if the research were largely staffed by women and “old fashioned jealousy let women to discriminate against pretty candidates”.
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I was waiting for someone to say what everyone else was thinking! I’m glad it was you because your Columns are always brilliant, concise and witty.
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well said ,couldn’t agree more
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How ironic to have Coco Chanel (alleged Nazi sympathiser) and Anne Frank in the same album of “beautiful” women.
I have a friend who is exceptionally beautiful (inside and out) and she does cop a lot of bitchiness from jealous, insecure women. Luckily, they’re in the minority. I think MOST women don’t hate beautiful women/
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It seems to be the same group of women keep getting wheeled out whenever there is a Most Beautiful/Most Inspirational/Best Feminists.
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Feel free to add your own in comments and we’ll add them to the gallery
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Corrie ten Boom, for sure!
In case anyone doesn’t know, she was personally responsible for saving the lives of many Jewish people who her family hid during the holocaust. She spent time in a concentration camp when the Nazis found out, but survived. After the war she built an estate/retreat type place for other people recovering from post-war and concentration camp trauma.
She also wrote a book, called the Hiding Place. I highly reccomend it!
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wasn’t she 15 or so when she died? She certainly had a woman’s maturity and eloquence in her writing..
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I loved that article Meshel but I thought that your examples of “beautiful” women that make other women jealous, uncomfortable or generally filled with contempt were a bit off the mark.
I doubt too many women would be threatened by the physicality of Kerrie Ann, Lisa or Carrie. All three of these women are very successful in their own right but they are hardly “beauties”. They are all more “girl next door” in terms of their looks and that is what this whole discussion is about.
Women with looks like Miranda Kerr, Elle or Jen Hawkins have all probably experienced what Samantha Brick claims (highly unlikely in my opinion) to have experienced because of their looks.
I think if most women are honest they will admit that they have felt threatened, completely unreasonably, by at least one women in their life. They may have gone on to love that women but Brick’s article and this one are talking about immediate reactions.
It’s hardly a shock really considering how bombarded we are with the messages that our looks and what we make of them are critical to our success and happiness in life.
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Rene, you are so right.
I was once in a restaurant in Melbourne, it was during fashion week, so low and behold who was sitting two tables away… Linda Evangelista and Christy Turlington and party. Now if that isn’t intimidation i don’t know what is. These woman were dressed in casual clothing with minimal make-up and i can tell you are more beautiful in real life than any magazine or runway they have ever appeared in. I was with my husband and I couldn’t stop looking at them more than he. The point of my story was I was so intimidated by their beauty that when i had to go to the bathroom i didn’t go b/c it meant i had to walk past their table, and i just could,t bring myself to do it. I waited about 1/2 an hour and was busting so made the dash with my head down. Now I am not tragic looking, nor am i usually unconfident but man compared to those woman you feel so inferior.
Now this is just my opinion but i don’t think Samantha is that attractive that woman would find her intimidating or disliked her for her looks – more to the point I think it is her manner and arrogance that people dislike.
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Very honest comment and very true, unfortunately. Something to constantly self-check for I think.
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Great article!
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What a great gallery!
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I loved the comment made by Deborah, especially about the Daily Mail misogynistic pattern of writing and wanting women to compete with each other over their looks. I liked the article but was a but confused about the inclusion of Tori. Ofcourse you weren’t threatened or jealous of her, firstly she’s really a MAN and secondly she’s a prostitute! I don’t know a single woman that would feel threatened by a male prostitute, really?? That was abit silly…..
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Tori was not a man. She was a transsexual woman.
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Did she still have a dick?
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What the hell is wrong with you? She identifies as a woman, thus she’s a woman. The amount of transphobia that still exists in the world is so depressing.
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Anonymous and Sara, having a penis does not automatically make you a man. Gender is a social construct. Someone’s sexual identity is complicated and not simply a black and white scenario. It’s people like you who make it so hard for others to grapple and come to terms with their identity because it doesn’t seem to fit into your cookie cutter idea of what makes a person male or female.
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Many gorgeous women I’ve known seem to be the sweetest- maybe because there are less hang- ups and the insecurities and rudeness that comes with that
On the other hand have known women who wouldn’t really fit the ideal but their inner beauty and charm really does shine and makes them attractive (popularity, treats, ect)
Wonder about the world that Bricks lives in?!!
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Great article! I can’t think of a single time when I have disliked a woman based on their looks. I have envied and admired certain aspects of a womans physical features that I may not share, but never disliked them for it. It comes down to actions, personality etc. There is so much more to people, male and female, than looks. If this woman thinks people don’t like her because she is beautiful maybe she is not offering much more of herself to like
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Brilliant piece, Meshel.
What is it they say, beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes all the way to the bones. Or something like that.
Brick is a strange woman. She writes for the Daily Mail, for starters, which is a ‘news’ paper not even fit for emergency toilet paper. I think we all realise that the reason women hate her (I think that’s pushing it, actually, most of us either pity her or just shrug our shoulders) is all about her personality and nothing to do with any perceived beauty. We all know a Samantha Brick. Fake beauty, overbrimming with self confidence, misplaced sense of entitlement, absence of compassion and an abundance of selfishness.
The reaction to the piece has been entirely predictable. An average looking woman says she thinks she beautiful and other women are jealous of her. Other women read it, look at her picture, piss themselves laughing then pile in to tell her that she’s got a head like a bag of broken biscuits. First woman sniffs, flicks her hair and says, “see, I told you so.” Meanwhile the men are all looking on at us as though we’re crazy.
Can I also say, Meshel, that you’re a gorgeous creature, with or without hair!!!
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Bahaha
love your comment..really had me laughing out loud.
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I love your writing, Meshel. In an ideal world, everything you say would be true. I wish it were that beautiful!
We spend most of the time on MM discussing how mothers judge each other, people are judged for the choices they make, etc. Then we turn around and claim that no woman would judge another woman for how she looks.
The fact is, this has little to do with beauty or even women. It is human nature to perceive a threat, and then to act accordingly. That threat could be someone who does something as good as or better than what someone else does, who is smarter, more outgoing, or even good-looking (in anyone’s eyes – who are we to define what is and isn’t?) In a society that values appearance so highly, is it any wonder that this could become an issue for some people?
We have experienced that for certain here in the US. My husband has worked in public (Australian) schools for a long time. He tends to work with kids, not above them. They know he is dead serious about getting the job done, but at the same time, those kids know he’s got their back, and they can discuss anything with him.
His department here at this university (particularly his boss) is of the opinion that in this field you should be king. The kids should be below you. It is a very elitist approach, even down to how they are expected to dress. My husband has maintained the philosophy he has always used, but it is rubbing his boss the wrong way. He is popular with the students, he can get them to do almost anything he wants. And his boss never fails to bring him down at any given opportunity, for completely unfounded reasons. Simply because the kids do not get along with him after two years, but in 6 months they have flocked towards my husband.
It is usually a self-confidence issue on the part of the judger. They feel inferior in some way, whether it is unfounded or not. It is certainly not every woman, both sexes can be guilty. And it is certainly not always about looks.
Perhaps Samantha Brick didn’t quite approach it in the right way, and perhaps it should never have been accompanied by any photo. And there are women who are beautiful inside and out, and there are beautiful women with not-so-beautiful personalities. I don’t deny that. But by saying that this woman has no right to say what she does because she’s not attractive enough means that we fall into the trap she has set. We have judged her on her appearance.
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‘Some of the most beautiful women show their true beauty from inside and out. With no delusions of grandeur’
Marie Antoinette? Really? I think she had the most deluded sense of grandeur out of any woman in history!
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I dunno, I think history had been too hard on Marie Antoinette. She started some charitable organisations and she was, after all, a queen – do we knock the current royal family for spending ridiculous amounts of money on clothes etc whilst others starve? Don’t we as Australians do the same on a smaller scale? I think Marie Antoinette was simply the figurehead of a much greater social problem……
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And let’s not forget she was 15 when married, after lifetime of being treated like, well, a princess. And only 19 when made Queen. How sensible and level headed were you as a teenager, I damn sure know it would’ve gone to my head!
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