Earlier this year, I found myself in a video shop uttering words no self-respecting man should ever have to say.
“Hello,” I said. “My name is Benjamin, and I am here to pick up a copy of the film Beaches—starring Bette Midler and Barbara Hershey—that my boyfriend reserved earlier today.”
It doesn’t get much gayer than that, I know. Situations like this make me anxious. Because I’m a double-barrelled minority (ethnic; homosexual), there’s often a ticking little voice in the back of my head repeating the mantra: Don’t be a cliché. Don’t be a cliché.
Despite my best efforts though, sometimes it can’t be helped. What can I say? I am an Asian man who loves theme parks and yum cha. I am a homosexual who loves televised awards ceremonies and Meryl Streep.
(Say anything derogatory though, and I’ll report for you a hate crime.)
Like many of my fellow gays, I suspect the anxiety I feel in these moments springs from all the frustrations I felt growing up, watching portrayals of gay men on screen with whom I didn’t identify. Gay men were always presented as mincers and queens, the butt of everyone’s jokes, and that made me uncomfortable. It’s hard to articulate, but I felt these men didn’t represent me properly, or something like that.
So I recently read with great interest as Andrew Bolt—a writer who has encouraged us all to “not insist on the differences between us but focus instead on what unites us as human beings”—blogged about Alan Joyce, Qantas’s now much-maligned CEO. Incidentally, Joyce happens to be gay. Under the headline “Alan Joyce breaks the mould”, Bolt wrote this about Joyce:
What a fine challenge to the notion of gays as effete, flighty and soft—a straitjacketing that limited the media careers of gay friends, keener to talk politics than showbiz. […] Stupid stereotypes. How they kill our possibilities. How they dull our reason.
For a small second, I’ll admit I was genuinely heartened. Thank you, Andrew Bolt! Thank you, Alan Joyce! It was good to know that the gay dream had broadened. How wonderful to know young gay boys all over Australia could now dream to one day become CEOs! Or aspire to be union-crushing millionaires, hated by the majority of the country’s population! Through Bolt’s piece, it was also wonderful to discover Alan Joyce is—quelle f**king surprise—a three dimensional human being, capable of being both a left-leaning homosexual and a ruthless businessman. Who knew gays could be both!
And finally, how excellent for Andrew Bolt that Alan Joyce is (1) openly gay; and—more importantly—(2) not that type of gay. Because to be that kind of gay would be hideous, obviously. Comments like Bolt’s always seem complimentary at first, until you realise they’re so backhanded he may as well have double jointed wrists. Or as @CarpeDylan so succinctly put it via Twitter:
“So basically: ‘How great is Alan Joyce? Yeah, he’s gay, but at least he’s not a FAGGOT.’”
Because what’s wrong with being an effete kind of gay? Some of us are effete, flighty and soft, and that should be fine. And some of us are huge and muscled, built like brick sh*thouses and could demolish Andrew Bolt’s face if we wanted to, and that is definitely fine by me too.
Andrew Bolt, and a lot of gay men I know, would disagree. Last year, Westpac came under fire for airing a television advertisement featuring two camp, presumably gay businessmen, who rolled their eyes and spoke in quips. It provoked a lot of hand-wringing and discussion amongst people—gay and straight—on internet forums. It was also howled down with complaints, including one to the Ad Standards Board that argued the two men in the commercial “were being portrayed as gay men with horrible stereotypes that inaccurately portray gay people and is both inaccurate and offensive to gay men”.
As well as being a very long sentence, I disagree with that assessment. (So did the ASB). Partly, because I know gay guys like that. And if that Westpac advertisement was an “inaccurate” portrayal of gay men, how is someone supposed to go about “accurately” portraying gays? Is it better for them not to be talking “like that”? If they’d acted less camp, would that have made them more “authentic”? It’s all very confusing.
So if someone has a manual on how I’m meant to transform myself into a more accurate homosexual—or even tell me how heterosexuals should be accurately portrayed—I’d greatly appreciate it.
Sometimes, I feel the hostility directed towards something like the Westpac advertisement has less to do with stereotypes and more to do with the fundamental discomfort many of us—gay people included—feel towards certain kinds of gay people. And when you promote the idea that certain varieties of gay are better than others, that can be damaging.
In February this year, a La Trobe University survey of 3,134 young people between 14 and 21 found nearly 80 per cent of students attracted to the same sex had been either physically assaulted or verbally abused. When you’re a young person faced with those odds, it’s hard enough being queer, let alone having to deal with the weird pressure to be the “right” kind of queer.
On a fundamental level, Bolt is actually right: Alan Joyce should be congratulated. Like Apple’s gay CEO Tim Cook, Joyce is a man heading a mammoth international company, unafraid and unapologetic to be open about his sexuality. In 2011, that still takes guts and I salute Alan Joyce for that reason. But to congratulate Joyce for challenging the idea of gays as “effete, flighty and soft” is loathsomely patronising. I’d argue that Joyce hasn’t smashed stereotypes at all. In Australia, they were smashed years ago and people would have all noticed this if they had, say, eyes.
Every year, the Australian gay website Same Same releases a list called the Same Same 25, which showcases the most influential and prominent gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Australians. In 2010′s list alone, there were politicians, TV producers, musicians, comedians, academics, social justice advocates, athletes, novelists, a former high court justice and the Official Secretary to the Governor-General. Over the years, there have been people from rural Australia and urban centres, butch lesbians, effete gay dudes, macho guys, femme ladies, drag queens, transgender and transsexual people, corporate suit-wearers, tattooed folks, people with disabilities and people you—and by “you”, I mean Andrew Bolt—might never suspect of being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.
We’ve always been a diverse and inclusive community, hence our unwieldy LGBTIQ acronym that will eventually include all the letters of the alphabet and Wingdings characters. And as much as I think the rainbow flag is a gaudy mess, it also neatly sums up who we are: a hodge-podge of people who probably clash and look weird side by side. But we fly the banner in unity anyway, knowing not one of us is any preferable than the other. Pride should look like that: all of us so different, but unified as one hot rampaging mess.
The only way you smash stereotypes is to promote diversity, and that doesn’t happen when you prop some people up while declaring others less desirable. None of us should feel the pressure to be ambassadors or model citizens, or shoulder the responsibility of representing “our people”. In the end, the only people we can properly represent are ourselves.
And while no one wants to become a parody of themselves, trying to actively defy stereotypes can be exhausting. In the end, aren’t we all stereotypes in some way? Are we not hollering soccer mums on Sundays, or fathers with sheds who have emotional dependency problems with Bunnings?
To all of you, I say embrace your inner cliché. Don’t be afraid of it. If you are a mincing homosexual, mince so hard your legs become hamburger meat. And when people think they’ve got you sussed out, it’s not your responsibility to remind them of all the other things that make you a three-dimensional human being. It’s their responsibility to look closer.
What’s your experience with gay and lesbian stereotypes, or stereotypes in general?
This article was first published on The Drum and is republished in full here with permission.
Benjamin Law is a Brisbane based writer and author of The Family Law. You can check out his writing and website here or follow his musings on Twitter here.







Comments
161 Comments so far
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This is such an interesting article to read. I love reading Ben’s viewpoint, I did not realise that within the gay community (and outside of it) there is a discomfort towards gay people who are “soft” or fit that certain stereotype. I hope to see a lot more articles from Ben and also I hope that Andrew Bolt got to read this article
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It’s fascinating Ben, and as a fabulous hetrosexual woman with a partner and two kids …… no tv ad of family or image has ever portrayed my existence accurately.
I don’t remember being thin, frollicing with blond hair trailing behind with a muscular husband and two perfectly behaved gorgeous children, as we dance through fields of the softest grass with the bluest sky.
In fact, that squeaky clean ‘family’ image makes me cringe at the dishonesty of life’s reality (the really good bits and the really bad bits!).
Cheers to you Ben and the truth in diversity
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Jeez, J. Edgar Hoover would have had Bolt in raptures.
I’ve often wondered if the campness that some gay men flamboy was just a really quick easy signal to identify themselves to other gay blokes.
Hide your light under a bushel, you won’t see any action and all that.
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Good on you, Ben! The homosexual population is as diverse as any other community.
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Yay! Benjamin Law! Love your writing in Frankie, brilliantly well done to snare him for some posts on here MM
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Ok a little off topic here but some comments reference when people ‘came out’. Are people really still doing that these days? It has always struck me as weird. It is not like I came out to announce I’m hetero.
Maybe I don’t get it cos I am not one of the 10% or whatever the statistic is.
Extending this thought…I think I have a problem with people who go to great lengths to hide being gay. Especially those is the public eye. Just be yourself. I suppose that is easy for me to say in a big city.
Are people still getting bashed for being gay? I haven’t heard it in the news for years.
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I grew up in the country and came out in the city only a few years ago. Believe me, it’s still kind of ‘necessary’ even though most hate it. For young kids it’s hard because everyone assumes you are hetero so to break that understanding involves a coming out, whether you want it to or not. I wrote about it on MM before: http://www.mamamia.com.au/relationships/coming-out-of-the-closet-in-real-life-and-on-facebook/
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Thanks. I’ll go read your article.
Also this Benjamin Law one was great conversation starter to include. Mincing line was a cracker! Thought-provoking (clearly…) & well-written.
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Yay Benjamin Law! Love your writing! Loved your book!
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Dear Benjamin Law, do you ever talk about anything other than being gay and asian, wanna stop being the stereotype, cheers.
We get that these are both parts of you, but seriously mate i’ve tried looking a little closer with you and just dont see any depth.
Oh and i’m gay, does that mean that i’m allowed to tell you to stop talking about it so often.
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well you seem to be in the minority here… you’re gay AND you hate Ben Law… whatever has the world come to? maybe you can write a column about it… or maybe you can just not read the article seeing as you’re so offended.
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oh i so agree! of course benjamin law writes about very important issues that we need to address but enough already!
The only way to be defined as something other than just ‘gay’ is to actually BE something other than just ‘gay’
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Jim, you just trying to throw the bitchy stereotype into the mix as well?
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“If you are a mincing homosexual, mince so hard your legs become hamburger meat.” I almost peed!! thanks ha!.
I met my first “gay” when i went to work experience at the VSO wardrobe department and then off into fulltime ballet and the the VCA where my connection to the community got closer. When i began performing professionally i was well and truly integrated so much so that many friends have remarked i am a gay man trapped in a woman’s body. I still cannot believe we are having these discussion perhaps i was lucky but even my Italian mum got over all her hangups when she started working at the Arts Centre. The only stumbling block she had was when a few of my friends contracted HIV she thought i might catch it. It was a beautiful night ( actually my birthday) when she kissed my friend, who was full blown AIDS and not very well, and wished him a happy new year. In many ways i am also many stereotypes i’m a theatre queen, a showgirl, a chorus girl, the world biggest living cliche (actor working as a waiter) but who cares you don’t like it or me well i’m bored already by you. I personally am going to flamboyantly kick ball change my way through life with all my stereotypes attached.
oops almost forgot i am also apparently the worlds biggest faghag even used to have a t shirt
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What a wonderful, wonderful piece!
I have thought along these lines for a long time – there IS nothing wrong with being a stereotype… because although one may be a stereotype, one is still being themself (in most cases!).
I have gay friends who are flamboyant, and I have gay friends who are not. At the end of the day it doesn’t make a difference to how much I like these people or how good they are. Yes, it is part of their personality, but it doesn’t affect if they are good or bad people. I have a good friend who had voiced to me that he thought he might have had it easier had he ‘toned down his gayness’, but knew he’d never be happy and that this was him, so why should he hide it? Having to ‘tone down’ your personality because you’re worried that you’ll be a stereotype sounds as terrible to me as hiding the fact that you’re gay at all.
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The lesbian tv show The L Word had this problem, too. Many young lesbian and bisexual women would write to the writers and producers saying that the show does not represent ‘real lesbians’ and does not represent ‘them’ (as in themselves). But the writers of the show always said: our show is based in West Hollywood. That is a different demographic to your average lesbian community. West Hollywood has a sizable lesbian community. But as shown on The L Word: they tend to have money, high paying jobs and yes, tend to be more femme. It was ironic how often the writers were confronted with this question when quite a few of the characters were based on real West Hollywood lesbians who the writers sometimes knew personally.
Even the writers were unsure though. I mean, Kate French said that the writers weren’t sure her character’s relationship with another femme character (Jenny Schecter. oh God, that name, say all the people who have seen The L Word here :p) would work because they were both very ‘femme’ characters.
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I’ve never watched the L Word, but was a huge Queer as Folk fan. I wonder if they had the same complaints for the lesbian characters in that? The guys seemed to cover from quite blokey, to nothing extreme to campy. The girls weren’t particularly anything either. (Talking about the American one).
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There is in fact a huge website called AfterEllen.com which is dedicated to analysing the portrayal of lesbian and bisexual women in film and tv. And yes Queer as Folk was a concern for them as you can see in this example: http://www.afterellen.com/archive/ellen/TV/qaf/season3.html
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It says what I sort of thought about them – I didn’t get why they never had many friends that you saw, and they were pretty dull!
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I loved that the show was filled with femmes, because I got to see lesbians more like me! When I was 17 and felt like the Only Femme in The Village it definitely helped
I think I’m the only person who liked Jenny as well, lol.
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I think you just might be Nico! She was a bit… er, how do you say it politely?… sociopathic
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Not the only one. I loved Jenny. Season 5 Jenny was my fave. For various reasons. Darling Nikki, Pink Ride, Oil Wrestling, Dawn & Denbo her Lover Cindy etc lol. Mia Kirshner did an amazing job with that character. Plus, Mia is so beautiful.
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Yes! She’s a stunner.
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Great response, well written. Thanks for a good read.
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As a lesbian person (not speaking for the whole team:), I don’t fit the “look”. Gays don’t see me & straight people don’t see “it”. Without being dramatic, quite often I do feel *invisible*.
I’m all for people being who they are and showing it (obviously) but we also need to recognise the way stereotypes can be used for harm on tv, news items and film… If you only ever *see* one stereotype played out over & over again, anyone who has no real life contact with gays, lesbian, trans or any “minority”, tend to believe that the whole subset are ‘like that’ (not that there’s anything wrong with being ‘like that’).
So, it’s the *invisibility* of people / characters who break the mold, that is also detrimental… especially for those who desperately need role models to look towards.
That’s why a show like ‘The L Word’ was so groundbreaking.. and one the reasons why I didn’t meet myself until I was 30 and stumbled across that show. Ironically, many lesbians who fit a particular stereotype had disdain for The L Word for the very reason I adore it. They were asking “Where am I”?
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Yeah. As I said above, I remember people complaining to the writers of the show. But the writers were basing the characters on real lesbians living in West Hollywood. Sure, they don’t represent ‘lesbians’ as a whole but they do represent a particular demographic of lesbians i.e. the West Hollywood demographic. And they do tend to be more femme there. As Ilene Chaiken said: They are tv characters. Sex and the City characters are more glamorous and attractive than the average people. TV has always used beautiful people. It’s just how it is.
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Whatntype of book is it? I just finished one today and need a new read.
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I totally agree with you, Benjamin. Trying to defy stereotypes can be VERY exhausting.
I should know.
Unlike most people commenting on your beautifully written article, I oppose same-sex marriage. For many, if not most of mamamia readers, I guess that automatically makes me a ‘homophobe’. They don’t know me or understand what makes me tick, but they’ve got me sussed out. I’m a ‘homophe’. A ‘bigot’. A ‘hater’. I’m not happy to be stereotyped in this way, and of course I totally reject the myriad charges that have been levelled against me, but I refuse to let others force me into a closet. Like the mincing gay, I’m learning to embrace my inner cliche.
The reason for my comment is merely to ask you (and your readers) not to stereotype same-sex marriage opponents either. Try instead to…look closer.
‘And when people think they’ve got you sussed out, it’s not your responsibility to remind them of all the other things that make you a three-dimensional human being. It’s their responsibility to look closer.’
Wise words.
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ok then if your not homophobic why the opposition? is it because you oppose marriage anyway? Or don’t think people should carry on about such a archaic institution? Why?
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This podcast from the Dennis Prager Show goes some way to explaining my opposition to same-sex marriage. I have been listening to Dennis Prager for a few years now (via subscription podcast); he has influenced my thinking on a range of issues, including the same-sex marriage issue. There’s nothing homophobic about what he says. Nothing. If you do take the time to listen (i.e. ‘to look closer’ as Benjamin suggests), I think you might come to see that not all opposition to same-sex marriage is rooted in bigotry and hatred. (By the way, you can fast forward through the ads – they’re about 3 minutes each in length)
http://srnnews.townhall.com/talkradio/show.aspx?RadioShowId=3&ContentGuid=8262fcc9-adbd-4236-a197-d5d49cd145f2&mode=0
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How about you explain your opposition yourself rather than linking to some podcast?
Or do you need a man to speak for you? I am assuming this is the Simone who wants to become an Orthodox wife?
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Actually, explaining why you are opposed to same-sex marriage is a LOT harder than explaining why you support it. It’s simply impossible to sum up in a few words, or with no words at all (see this GetUp clip – https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/marriage-equality/love-story/watch-the-video) why marriage should not be redefined. I can’t appeal to your emotion, like GetUp. In fact, if I only approached this issue from an emotional angle, I’d probably be in favour of same-sex marriage too. But, so help me, I have also looked at this issue from other angles, I’ve allowed the other side of the debate to appeal to my sense of reason and logic, and the other side has won me over.
As Dennis Prager says in the podcast (paraphrased), if I knew that this generation was going to be the last, that a meteorite was going to destroy all life on earth in a few short decades, I would have no problem whatsoever with same-sex marriage. But, as far as I know, the end of the world is NOT nigh, so I have forced myself to consider what the consequences of same-sex marriage might be, not just for gay couples wanting to marry now, but for future generations, gay and straight, men and women, and most of all, for children. I have essentially asked myself the following questions and my answers to them have led me to the position I now hold. Your answers will probably lead you in an entirely different direction.
1. Is there a sexual ideal and should society actively promote this ideal?
2. Is sexuality fixed and does society play any role in determining sexual behavior?
3. Is marriage a right?
Prager goes into much more detail in the podcast, without engaging in gay-bashing or anything approximating it, but you’ve made it abundantly clear that you don’t want to ‘look closer’. And that’s okay; I don’t mind it when others make my points for me. By the way, I liked the Prager article that was linked to. It makes sense to me and only those looking to take offense would find it offensive. And yes, I am the same Simone who admires orthodox Jewish women. Do you have a problem with that?
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You haven’t once said what YOU think. I have a problem with that. It’s all this Dennis Prager guy’s ramblings.
The only thing that happens if same sex marriage is allowed is that 2 men who love each other can get married or 2 women who love each other can get married.
Don’t blame others for your reluctance or inability to explain yourself.
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Excuse me? I have said very clearly what I think. Read my comment again.
As for expressing agreement with someone else on an issue, even if – {{shudder}} – that person happens to be a (oh, please forgive me, Gloria Steinem) a MAN, I fail to see what’s so wrong with that? I guess you’ve never linked to an article or a video that you find interesting or thought-provoking, or that speaks to your heart? Would you object if a supporter of same-sex marriage posted a link to that GetUp video to help express their feelings? That’s pretty much all I’ve seen from my facebook friends who support same-sex marriage. At least Dennis Prager puts words to his thoughts!
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No, you haven’t. You have said “Listen to what this guy says” rather than articulate your own problems with it.
If you can’t appeal to emotion, appeal to logic then. Go for it.
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What “this guy says” is what I also believe to be true, and he says it well. He doesn’t dictate my thoughts on this issue, he echoes them. What’s the problem with that?! The reason I link to him is because, to be honest, I find it almost impossible to articulate my thoughts on same-sex marriage without causing (unintended) offence. (The gay lobby have certainly been very successful in silencing dissent) Listening to Prager, however, I can’t imagine how anyone, even the most die-hard advocate for same-sex marriage, could be offended. Forgive me, but I like having that kind of buffer zone between myself and people who call me names!
If you were arguing from my corner, you probably would too.
Anyway, as it happens, I have two young children. If they come to me when they’re older and tell me they’re gay, I’ll accept that with a smile and love them just as much as I do right now. I’ll love and embrace their partners and do everything I can to support them in their lives together. I won’t be telling my children as they grow up that there’s anyting wrong with homosexuality (because there isn’t), but neither will I be actively promoting it.
You see, I do think there is a sexual ideal, both for individuals and for society, and that that ideal is heterosexuality. It’s the ideal I’ll be promoting in my home, and hopefully it’s the ideal that is being promoted at school too. Of course I understand that not everyone can live up to this ideal, and they shouldn’t be forced to do so, or punished in any way for not doing so, but the ideal still exists, or at least I believe it SHOULD exist. By the way, I don’t see an inability to get married as ‘punishment’, but rather as a natural consequence of not meeting the requirements for marriage. This ideal can be promoted in a way that doesn’t discriminate against homosexuals or force them back into the closet, and that’s basically what same-sex marriage opponents are fighting for.
Same-sex marriage undermines the ability of society to promote this ideal and I unapologetically object to that. I believe that children deserve a mother and a father who love each other, and have committed themselves to each other in marriage. Other arrangements can, and do, work, I acknowledge that fact, but all things being equal, the traditional family is best for children and I believe that’s what we, as a society, should be actively promoting. If that’s not enough of an answer for you, then please listen to the Prager podcast. I’m not ashamed to say that he says it far better than I can.
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I’m sure your kids are thrilled to know that you’ll love them the same but consider them less than if they were heterosexual. It’s not a choice, you know!
How can your “ideal”, which excludes whole groups of people, be promoted in a way that doesn’t discriminate against homosexuals who want the right to get married?
What you’ve written seems pretty articulate to me, Simone. It’s not the way you write that is offensive, it’s what you write.
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Kris2040
Same-sex couples can defend their own interests, but who’s defending the interests of the children in this debate? It is my belief that the right of a child to know and be cared for by both biological parents trumps any demands made by same-sex couples to get married. What’s considered fair and just for homosexuals ends up being unfair and unjust for the children they bring into the world, regardless of how good their upbringing is. You obviously see it the other way around. Well, if nothing else, at least we’ve clarified where we differ.
If my children turn out to be gay, I won’t think of them as inferior to heterosexuals, but I do hope I’ll have brought them up to think about how their actions might affect others and to act accordingly. Bringing a child into the world and deliberately denying him/her access to or, in some cases, even knowledge of a biological parent is not something I will ever be able to support. Making same-sex marriage legal codifies what I consider to be a violation of human rights, so obviously I’m not going to stand on the sidelines and cheer it on.
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I think we would all prefer it if you just spent a few moments articulating your views. Surely it’s not that hard to succinctly explain why you are opposed to two people committing to each other in marriage.
All this postulating about not being homophobic when you can’t even be bothered stringing a few words together to explain your views, frankly leads to me think that you probably are.
EDIT
Just read this http://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2010/08/17/same-sex_marriage_and_the_insignificance_of_men_and_women/page/full/
Intolerant, misguided, hogwash, bigoted…doesn’t even really begin to describe this. A sure way to pick a fail argument against same sex marriage is when, midway, it inexplicably becomes an argument against same-sex parenting. You do realise that having children is not conditional on being married and being married does not mean you will become a parent. It is totally and utterly irrelevant to the discussion on whether two people should be able to commit to each other in marriage.
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Yeah, I googled. That’s 5 minutes I’ll never get back.
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kris and mkb27 don’t you see how contradictory you’re being? your view is that everyone should have freedom to think and feel how they want, with equal rights to act on those feelings accordingly. and yet your are completely harrassing this woman because she holds a view contrary to yours!?
how wonderfully progressive of you.
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Ha! Rach are you Simone in disguise? For fuck’s sake, she walked into a post about being a gay person in a discriminatory society that loves to stereotype, and spewed forth her less than progressive view that gay people shouldn’t be allowed to get married. She did it deliberately to cause offence – so if she is offended by the response, too bad. She deserves everything she gets.
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To rach
Contradictory? Not in the slightest. Simone can think what she likes and she is free to express her views, just as I am free to do the same and CHALLENGE her views if I disagree with them. She is free to challenge mine, and she is.
It’s called a “discussion” or a “debate”. Look it up
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So, to summarise, you think that if gay marriage is legalized, men and women would lose their individual identities as separate genders?
(I love that we have alternate viewpoints on mamamia, it makes things interesting.)
To rebut, while traditional gender roles are certainly altered in a same sex partnership, that is already the case – we are not discussing the legalisation of homosexuality (thank god) but the legal recognition of partnerships that already exist.
And just as these partnerships currently existing have not altered the fabric of any marriage between a man and a women, neither will legally recognizing these relationships alter any current or future marriage between a man and a woman. Each individual marriage will still be what the participants make it, whether it is a five minute celebrity quicky or a 50 year traditional union with a breadwinning husband and a submissive wife.
Legally recognizing relationships that already exist will not precipitate the end of days, nor will it spark some kind of moral decline. I think to say that would essentially be giving a on-paper technical alteration far too much credit.
And Simone, a simple way of telling if your views are homophobic is to substitute a race epiphet in place of “gay”. If it sounds wrong, it probably is. I, personally, am glad that people of any colour can now now marry. It’s time to afford the same rights to people of any gender.
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Archie
Thanks for responding in a slightly more reasonable tone than some of the others.
At the risk of being labelled as lazy, incapable of independent thought or homophobic (once again), could I please direct you to the podcast I linked to above. It addresses all the arguments you have made here, including the one about race, and it does so, quite frankly, in a much more articulate way than I can manage and have the time for.
I’ve taken a closer look at the same-sex marriage issue (on this website and elsewhere), all I’m asking is that you take a closer look too. You can start with Prager’s podcast. His own niece is a lesbian, and they have a very good relationship. If she can give him a chance, maybe you can too.
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You said “As Dennis Prager says in the podcast (paraphrased), if I knew that this generation was going to be the last, that a meteorite was going to destroy all life on earth in a few short decades, I would have no problem whatsoever with same-sex marriage. But, as far as I know, the end of the world is NOT nigh, so I have forced myself to consider what the consequences of same-sex marriage might be”
Which tends to lead back to this whole marriage = children argument. Frankly, I find this bizarre. Do you think the consequences of same sex marriage will be that it will overtake hetero relationships? Do you think people will stop breeding? As I have already pointed out, you don’t need to be married to have children and being married doesn’t mean you will.
What precisely do YOU think the consequences of same sex marriage may be?
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Why do you oppose? What are your reasons? A big part of “looking closer” is trying to understand the basis of your opposition…
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Yes! As far as I’m concerned, marriage is, first and foremost,about children. That will sound bizarre to you, I know. But to say that marriage is nothing more than an official agreement, recognized by the state, between two people who love each other strikes me as completely bizarre. Why do two people who love each other need the state to formally recognize their love? For what purpose??!! It’s certainly not the reason I married my husband. I married my husband because I wanted any future children of ours to know that we were legally accountable to them, and to each other.
More here: http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/19/opinion/oe-blankenhorn19
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Who has said here that marriage “is nothing more than an official agreement, recognised by the state”? Certainly not me.
Marriage is NOT about children for everyone. To try and label marriage as being first and foremost about them is to deny the basis of many, many marriages around the world – mine included. I have been married for 10 years and there are no children in our relationship, nor will there be. That is a personal choice we have made, but that takes nothing away from the depth of our relationship, commitment and life together. There are many people who make the same choice we have, while others who can’t either through infertility, medical reasons or age.
I married my husband because I love him and I want to spend my life with him. Sure, I don’t require a document for that but then neither do you for your purposes – you can have children and raise them as a family with your partner without any document. I find it bizarre that you seem to think it makes a difference to your family, but not to mine.
Frankly, I find your assertions in the post incredibly offensive.
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‘I reject homophobia and believe in the equal dignity of gay and lesbian love. Because I also believe with all my heart in the right of the child to the mother and father who made her, I believe that we as a society should seek to maintain and to strengthen the only human institution — marriage — that is specifically intended to safeguard that right and make it real for our children.’
David Blankenhorn (taken from the LA Times column I linked to earlier)
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Hi Simone
I typically don’t feel the need to comment on the beliefs of others. Personally I’m for same sex marriage, and i can see that you are not. We’re going to have to respectfully disagree on that point.
I don’t have respect for another of your opinions, however, which is that marriage is about children.
Thank you for completely undermining the credibility of my marriage due to something I had no control over. I am physically unable to have children after a car accident (at age 12) left my pelvis and hips too damaged for me to ever safely carry children.
I’m married, happily, and that was with my husbands full understanding that I would never carry his child. According to your own opinions, our marriage is pretty much invalid in your eyes.
Marriage is not about children, not even as a biblical concept. It’s very unfair of you to dismiss the unions of homosexuals on the basis of not being able to bear children, when plenty of heterosexuals, like myself, battle the same problem.
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Reluctant Commenter:
I have battled infertility also. I lost two pregnancies (one was an ectopic that involved emergency surgery), underwent numerous investigations and IUIs, and a (successful) IVF procedure. I know what it feels like to consider a future without children and if I minimised your suffering or appeared to invalidate your marriage, I sincerely apologise. Please forgive me. I didn’t adequately explain myself, and I will attempt to do so in a moment.
For a long time my husband and I talked about adoption and fostering. We never, not once, considered donor eggs/sperm. I just couldn’t do that to a child, and can’t understand how others can do it either, heterosexuals and homosexuals alike (maybe it all stems from the fact that my mother grew up not knowing about her father or anyone on his side of the family and, although she’s happy, healthy and well adjusted, I just know that that void in her life causes her immeasurable and ongoing pain. I feel her pain also).
So let me clarify what I wrote about marriage being about children. I never thought of my marriage as being as invalid when my husband and I were childless and when it looked as though we might remain that way, so obviously I don’t regard your marriage in that way either. I know I’m going to get in trouble from Kris2040 for linking to another article, but a) it’s quite a complex concept to wrap one’s head around and articulate WELL, b) some clever soul has already articulated this complex concept in a much clearer and more succint way than I’m capable of doing and c) it’s Saturday and, as much as I’m enjoying this discussion, I do have a life to lead.
So, please, if you can spare the time, read the following link (it’s not long). It clearly explains how marriage IS about children and how this is in no way incompatible with your right, as a childless heterosexual woman, to marry the man you love.
P.S My link is not an endorsement of the website from which this article comes, just of the article itself.
http://theosophical.wordpress.com/2010/09/17/same-sex-marriage-dealing-with-the-%E2%80%9Cchildless-couples%E2%80%9D-objection/
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Hi Simone. I read that article. And then I read it again to make sure I wasn’t imagining things.
This mans article claims that homosexuals should not be allowed to marry (paraphrasing) because they are not procreating. Furthermore he states that there is a need for governments I regulate straight marriage not due to relationship control, but control over who is raising children to be productive members of society.
You’re right, I can’t wrap my head around this, especially the paragraphs that say that its just not practical to screen hetero couples for childbearing abilities, so it’s just easier to regulate all heterosexuals under the same umbrella, because hey, it’s just easier. Because although the writer never explicitly says it, I feel like if there was a practical way for governments to gauge heterosexuals for their potential to have kids and deny marriage to those who can’t, he’d be all for it.
Out of curiosity I did click on other articles on the site and I really don’t think this man knows what he thinks. Some articles he claims governments should have nothing to do with a religious union, and then he says it’s their responsibility to govern the unions to make sure the right people are raising kids?
Who said gays can’t raise socially functioning, productive members of society? Well; he did, but no sane person would ever say that all straight people are automatically inclined to be better at raising kids than gays, simply due to their sexuality.
I appreciate your attempt to explain yourself, but your source and his affiliations and arguments let you down.
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‘I reject homophobia and believe in the equal dignity of gay and lesbian love. Because I also believe with all my heart in the right of the child to the mother and father who made her, I believe that we as a society should seek to maintain and to strengthen the only human institution — marriage — that is specifically intended to safeguard that right and make it real for our children. Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. But changing the meaning of marriage to accommodate homosexual orientation further and perhaps definitively undermines for all of us the very thing — the gift, the birthright — that is marriage’s most distinctive contribution to human society. That’s a change that, in the final analysis, I cannot support.’
David Blankenhorn (in the LA Times).
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I glad in the quote here that you agree that same sex marriage will benefit both the people in the marriage and any attached children. I whole-heartedly agree.
Could you elaborate on why you feel that allowing homosexuals to marry will undermine marriage for same sex couples? What changes do you see occurring as a result?
I’m having trouble understanding why giving more people equal rights will damage the rights that some people already have. But I’m open minded and willing to listen to your response
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I think the quote speaks for itself. For me, the issue is not, and never has been, about same-sex marriage and how it might undermining my marriage. I know it won’t; my marriage, and heterosexual marriage in general, will endure regardless of what happens in the same-sex marriage debate. Due to time pressure, I’ll have to distil my objection into one short sentence. ‘Legalizing same-sex marriage codifies a violation of human rights against children and I object to that with all my being’. It’s not my only objection, but it’s the main one.
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‘Legalizing same-sex marriage codifies a violation of human rights against children and I object to that with all my being’.
How?
And do single parents out of choice or otherwise do the same?
And Simone, don’t throw up your “You won’t understand/like…” little red herrings. We’re trying to understand your points and asking you to make them, your attempts to again make it out to be others’ fault for asking for clarification is really uncool.
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Simone, I completely reject your attempts to intrinsically link marriage and children, but I will humour you for just a moment. So, let me give you two scenarios and then you tell me which family is more like to “violate the human rights” of the children involved.
Scenario 1
‘Normal’ nuclear family of mum, dad, two kids who are biologically their own. Mum and Dad are a couple of deadbeats – can’t hold down a job, more interested in partying with their mates than providing that sort of environment every kid needs when they are growing up. They try a bit of random parenting from time to time, but the kids are not their top priority. The first child was an accident and they’re not even sure if they would be together if it wasn’t for that.
Scenario 2
This family is a gay couple with a child they had through a surrogate. The couple are in a long standing relationship and would be married if it was legal in this country. They used a surrogate from another country to have their baby. Because of the complexities of using a surrogate, not to mention the cost, they thought long and hard about whether having children was the right path for them. They decide they want nothing more than to raise a family together. They provide a nurturing, loving and fulfilled environment for their child.
So, Simone, which is the better environment for the child to be raised in?
These scenarios are not meant to suggest that all hetero parents are deadbeats and that all same-sex parents are guaranteed to be good at it. The point is that the capacity for someone to be a good parent is not based on their gender or their sexuality. It’s based on who they are and their desire to have children and commit to them for the long haul. Being raised by a man and a woman does not in itself guarantee this.
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Haha that’s funny
Of course noone wants to be labeled a homophobe, being a homophobe is frowned upon these days. But you still have to face reality, you’re a homophobe! noone wants to be called a racist, but they can’t reasonably say “I oppose to black people marrying whites, but you’re not allowed to call me a racist, I’m not!”
Denial doesn’t affect reality….only your perception of it.
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Woah, let me get my head around this Simone. You are not homophobic but you think gay people shouldn’t get married because they can’t make babies and they don’t represent a sexual ideal. You aren’t homophobic and you’d still love your children if they were gay, but you wouldn’t encourage it (because it goes against what is the natural order of things?). You aren’t homophobic but you commented on a post written by a beautiful gay man trying to fight for his rights to be seen as a human being rather than a gay person or a stereotype, to tell him you don’t believe he should be allowed to get married. You aren’t homophobic but despite the fact that you’ve had difficulty conceiving, you still believe marriage is about procreating, and your marriage is still more relevant to society becaue you have access to fertility treatments and the ability to adopt, but a gay couple have to fight for their rights to adopt or find other ways of having children. You aren’t homophobic but you still believe that a heterosexual couple are better equipped to parent a child than a gay couple.
Believe me Simone. Everyone here can see straight through it. You are bigoted, narrow minded and homophobic with a capital H. I’d respectfully disagree with your opinion… except that I don’t respect you at all. It is such a shame that people still think the way you do… it really is.
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So Simone doesn’t agree with same-sex marriage. What ever happened to having the right to an opinion?
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I didn’t say she didn’t have a right to an opinion. I said I didn’t respect it. And I don’t. I have a right to this opinion too – and a right to express it, particularly on a post about being gay.
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my god what a wonderful, open-minded forum this is when one woman who doesnt happen to agree with the rest of us is totally abused and attatcked because she is repectfully trying to convey an opinion.
for the record, i dont agree with all of simones ideas but respect has to go both ways.
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No abusing here, and respect does not have to go both ways, it is EARNED. I don’t respect people who discrimate against any vast number of things -age, race, sex. I don’t respect people who don’t vaccinate their children, I don’t respect people who abuse or neglect their children. AND I don’t respect people who have disrespectful views about gay people and their rights. Her views are downright offensive to any homosexual person reading this site and I have no obligation to respect them, so you might want to try getting off your high horse and realising that Simone DELIBERATELY opened fire with her views to get a reaction.
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Love this post and love Benjamin law. Well said.
Am currently reading his book the family law and it’s hilarious.
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I love this Benjamin! Well said! I hate the pressure to not act like a “stereotype”. When I first went into academia I was so aware of what I wore and my hair and my interests not to appear like a bimbo because I had blonde hair at the time and later big boobs.I did end up dying my hair (such a wimp! Plus I hated the maintenance) and there’s not much I can do about my chest! But I decided I wasn’t going to worry if people knew I loved Harry potter and care bears and girlie stuff (shoes!). I’m not really a serious person and maybe I come off like a bimbo sometimes but who gives a shit. Interestingly enough I had to try and appear not so smart around people outside that world cos I got accused of acting like I knew everything (WTF I only study one area!) but I did realize just recently that the person who said that is a bitch and nothing I ever did was good enough so I just got rid of her and am so much happier! I just had to accept stereotype or not I am who I am. My friend always used to try so hard to change his behavior around straight guys so he wouldn’t seem like a stereo type and make them uncomfortable etc. Then he got a successful career, lots of friends and relised it didn’t matter what people thought cos he was already a success. And he is so much happier.
Plus Beaches is an awesome movie!! I must get it I haven’t seen it in years!
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Oh god I just remembered what I used to do around my exs father because he didn’t like that I was smart had different opinions! I used to ask him questions I already knew the answers to and accept his response (even tho he was so wrong!) eww I’m really ashamed of that! I didn’t really care what he thought of me but I knew it was hard for my ex and his Mum. So I used to dumb myself down. *sigh* thank god that’s over! Btw I want to point out that I was never rude or pushed my views on them or anything like that. It was just a matter of me telling a story of something I had read or watched or disagreeing with something on the news that he seemed to hate. He was very much a women don’t know anything kind of person and when I did it annoyed him.
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Well said Ben! Love your work
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Bravo, Benjamin! Brave, Witty and well-reseached article.
I’ve always thought I was fairly one-off until I saw the now-viral “Shit Girls Say” video…
So ummm, guess we are Twinsies.
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I love the article and am a big fan of Benjamin. I
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Great piece. More writers like this please MM. Thought-provoking, well-written and engaging with a definite point of view yet still full of personal anecdotes and research. Love it.
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A friend once said to his girlfriend ‘I think maybe I could dress better’. She was cautiously encouraging, asking how did he mean. He said ‘you know, like neater, more stylish, less blokey…more gay’.
I can’t explain why this struck me as so hilarious, I guess it’s because some stereotypes are so pervasive that ‘gay’ has replaced the original word, like ‘stylish’ in this case, or even ‘articulate’ sometimes.
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Great article. I was just reading about Jackie O’s comment yesterday that she started hating her middle name – Ellen – because it’s “a bit lez”.
I don’t know if that exactly fits into the article’s question about stereotypes, but it still really pisses me off.
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The irony of Jackie’s “Lez” comment is that the original Jackie O would be spinning in her grave if she knew that her name had become associated with cheap, trashy tabloid “journalism” from our poster-girl for white-trash boganism.
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Couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s so pretentious of her to think she could ever be as highly regarded as the original. What a joke.
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I just read about that and am rather pissed off too. I used to think she was nice then I started to wonder because she always stood by Kyle….now I know she is not a nice person. And man do I feel bad for Ellen having anything in common with her! Not that someone like Ellen would even know who someone like her is! Yes that was a bitchy comment but I’m ticked off! I’m really over Kyle and Jackie O, I have been for years but they just keep spreading hate and nastiness where ever they go. They are bullies and I have no idea why they are still allowed on air! *goes and screams into pillow*
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What a fuckwit thing to say. She and her on air partner are well matched, it seems.
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Ugh, seriously? Good work, Jackie O. I know it’s stooping to her level, but that just cements my view of her as being a vapid, pointless woman.
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What an amazingly well written article. It kind of jumps all over the place explaining what you want to say, yet isn’t confusing to read at all and somehow manages to flow magnificently.
What a pleasure to read.
And I enjoy the Bolt references, so soon after Mia was slammed yesterday for her ‘affiliation’ with him after deflecting to News Ltd …
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A truly well written piece. Nice work!
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This makes me want to get a PFLAG sticker, a big one, and put it on my car to support my twin sister.
Really should tell her how proud of her I am.
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We can do that, if you like.
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But just so you know, no way are we fucking watching Beaches.
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That’s ok. I won’t make you watch it. I know you don’t like Bette Midler.
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Hey, beaches is cool!
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Not that it’s any of my business, but answer if you don’t mind and you have time: is your identical twin gay, and not you?
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We are not identical. But yes my fraternal twin sister is gay.
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Oh, ok. I’m interested because it came up in a show I was watching the other night about genetics and whether being gay is one of those unchangeable genetic things like eye colour, or more malleable. My identical twin and I are both straight and I have wondered whether it’s always both or neither.
Thanks.
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I watched the same program. It’s always interesting watching shows like that.
My sister was always gay. When she came out, I was like, of course you are.
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I’ve heard and know of a lot of fraternal twins where one is gay and one is straight. Apparently that is quite common. I haven’t heard the same about identical twins tho. Obviously it’s nature not nurture but would be interesting to see if it is linked to genetics and is hereditary or familial.
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Benjamin Law!! I love your writing and have followed you for years in Frankie, and on twitter. How funny to see you pop up on Mamamia : )
Great article too xx
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Oh I LOVE Benjamin Law, I always read his articles first in Frankie.
Anyway Andrew Bolt is a hideous human being, I think it’s best if we just ignore him and carry on about our business.
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Isn’t Andrew Bolt himself gay? I think when you’re aware of that it does slightly colour his words…
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No, he’s (straight) married to Sally Morrell who also writes for the News Ltd papers.
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His brother is gay.
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No way! Never knew that.
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His sister is gay.
http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/12/13/bolt-i-want-marriage-equality-for-all/
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Another big Benjamin Law fan here.
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me too!
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Yes! I love Benjamin Law. (Those of you who aren’t yet following him on Twitter – do it now) I have a gay friend who is a hairdresser and loves fashion and makeup, and another who I thought was straight for the longest time. Love them both. Same as straight female friends who differ individually, like we all do!! Let’s just accept everyone for who they are
Thanks for posting this MM. Have a great weekend all
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Ben. Answer me this. The ultimate test if you are REALLY gay.
Do you have friends in Canada?
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Well written! I love what you have written – you have a lovely way of explanation. I like you already though I have never met you! However, I don’t really want to know whether a person is gay, hetero, or whatever. I want them to be good people, do their job well, and hurt no one…. Is that too much to ask? Is that too simple? Unfortunately, it seems so! Keep on writing!
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Amazing piece! Don’t worry rick, you write pieces just as good
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Mum, is that you? Oh, it’s you!
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Ya mum’s called Troy?
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Every bit of writing I’ve ever read from Benjamin Law has been awesome. This one is no different. Love it!
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i have gay friends who fit the stereotype to the tee and i have gay friends who i never knew were gay until they told me.
Loved the article! Very well written.
One of my favourite quotes relating to gay stereotypes comes from a Veronica Mars’ “I am God” episode
Mr Wu: I think when you get out into the world, you’ll find that not all well-dressed, articulate, detail-oriented men are gay. Many of them are just Asian.
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“If you are a mincing homosexual, mince so hard your legs become hamburger meat.”
LOL so many great funny quotes in this article. Well done!
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Maybe you just look for the negative because it was Andrew Bolt. Maybe you would have taken positives in what was said were it almost anyone else saying it. Maybe this shows that you too are human, and guilty of the pre judgement of others intentions or sentiments as well?
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I get “You? A lawyer? REALLY?”.
Yes really, what, do I have to be boring, wear only black, grey and beige, have plain coloured hair and only watch the ABC or SBS? Or do you think I’m stupid, is that why you’re so surprised?
Reality TV is my crack, I love reading magazines, I don’t believe that working long hours is of benefit to you or your employer, I’d rather read Marian Keyes than some great literary piece, I dye my hair red, I watch Sunrise in the morning, I’d rather read the Courier Mail than the Financial Review, I wear hot pink shorts on the weekend, and my favourite shoes to wear at work are a pair of hot pink studded pumps with a 10cm heel. Smashing the stereotype there!
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While you’re here, I have this legal thing I wanted to ask you about…
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Sure? Is it easier over email?
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LOL, I was just joking. The same way people ask me ‘oh, can you tell me if what I’m wearing is OK’? Sure! Doesn’t mean I’ll be good at it though…
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I’m a lawyer and people only rarely ask me for legal advice! I don’t know if that’s worse!!! Ha ha
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And by rarely I mean never.
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Haha oh that went over my head. I was like “what on earth could he want to ask me about, bet I don’t have a clue anyway?”. Red face! LOL
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Brilliant article. Thoughtful, intelligent, challenging.
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When I was coming out, a lot of my friends and family said something to the tune of “But you don’t -look- like a lesbian!”, which exasperated me no end, partly because I found I was having that exact problem whenever I tried to hit on anyone :p
Fast forward a couple of years and I’m dating a gorgeous androgynous type who regularly experiences the type of horrible bigotry which I avoid by virtue of having long hair and wearing dresses. I’ve had friends (gay and straight) make remarks about her to the tune of “Why are you a lesbian if you’re going to date a woman who dresses like a man?”
My best friend could also be described as an “effete” gay man, and he won’t hold his boyfriend’s hand in the street for fear of attracting attention. He, more so than my girlfriend, also attracts negative attention from other gay men.
I guess it’s not the stereotypes themselves which piss me off so much as how some people think they are a sound and reasonable basis upon which to judge someone. While it used to bother me that I wasn’t obviously gay, now I feel guilt for being the “right kind” of gay person, watching people I care about having to be so careful not to offend anyone -gay or straight- by being themselves.
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Oh my goodness, those first two paragraphs…are you me? I pretty much could have written that, word for word.
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Well, yes, actually, I am you! Or possibly our experiences are similar because people are so predictable, and one day we will harness our collective femmedykepower ™ and rule the world (because no one ever expects the girly girls).
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Aaaah, can you imagine the amazing-ness (it’s a word
) of what would happen if all the femmes banded together?
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Femmes banding together: dispelling stereotypes + effectively ending femme invisibility = more sex for everyone (By everyone I mostly mean gay ladies, although others are of course also welcome to have more sex out of joyful solidarity)! High fives all round!
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*femme fist-bump of solidarity*
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Omg! I just hurt myself trying not laugh out loud at work!! That’s the funniest thing ever. You two crack me up.
Side note. I dated a girl for three years and at some point during this time someone used the term “lipstick lesbian” and I was thoroughly confused by it. Called my very efette gay guy friend and asked him what it was. His answer… “Uh. You sweetie”. Still cracks me up to think of how he said it.
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“now I feel guilt for being the “right kind” of gay person,”
This is a horrible feeling. Whenever I come out to people, it’s always this big, congratulatory “Oh, I NEVER would have guessed you were gay!”, and for a second I bask in the complimentary tone of their response, but before all the back-patting and high-fiving can pass, I kinda go “What the f-?!”
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I definitely relate, I feel relief that I ‘pass’ when I’m out on the street and won’t get hassled, but my friends and girlfriend don’t have the same privilege, they’re always ‘out’.
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Best article I’ve seen on Mamamia for months. Get Benjamin Law to join the team!
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I wish!
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This is an awesome piece. This is very similar to how I sometimes feel about being a SAHM or part-time working mum. I reconnected with an old flat mate living overseas on facebook a couple of years ago. When she realised that I had 3 children under school age and working 2/3 days a week she made well meaning (i think) comment about being a Super Mum and having it all. I know it was meant to be a compliment but it felt off. She seemed so happy that I wasn’t of those stereotypical SAHMs who threw their away. The next year I found myself driving a 4 wd taking precious cargo to sporting events and sipping a latte. I freaking loved it! Now life has changed again and I’ll be back at work again. Can’t please everyone.
Anyway, I made that post completely about me which it isn’t. Brilliant post and very well written.
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I hate the stereotype that as a SAHM I have wasted my education, thrown my career away and I must be bored, which I have been told several times before. Some people just dont seem to like the idea of others being happy with their life when its not lived the way they expect
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hey I bet they are just jealous! I am would love to be a stay at home mum unfortunately I am the main bread winner!
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I’m freakin’ jealous of SAHMs who don’t realise how lucky they are (not you I’m sure you know). I wish I could afford to be a SAHM. No joke.
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I love this article, one of the take away messages to me seems to be ‘Be Yourself’, and I think that’s such an essential part of being happy. As wise cartoon man Homer Simpson says, “Let your freak flag fly!!”
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LBGTIQ is all very well, but can we add another “S”, for the straights who are also open and accepting, and don’t differentiate because of who loves who, or who’s got what in their knickers?
I don’t want to hijack their identity, but hopefully once we’re all in the same group, we can move onto a higher level of humanity, where people who are “different” don’t require a label because everyone is accepted as part of the general population.
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Hallelujah!
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I think the “Q” pretty much covers that.
“Queer” is used these days as catch-all for everyone that supports the community, but doesn’t identify as gay, lesbian, bi or trans.
So Archie, consider yourself included
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Oh yay! That means me too I hope! I don’t get why someone’s sexuality matters to anybody else. Gay, straight, I don’t care. Gay marriage? Can’t see why it’s even an issue. Aren’t we all just people at the end of the day?
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One of my favorite quotes is from a comedian (who is gay) named Liz Feldman who said: I’m all for gay marriage. Or as I like to call it, marriage. Because I had lunch today, not ‘gay lunch’.
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‘Ally’ is often preferred to ‘Queer’ if the person in question identifies as straight.
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i am appalled by the abuse statistics. it appears homophobia is alive and well.
the two alan’s are not my favourite people at all, but whether they are gay or not is irrelevant. although alan jones is someone i would have assumed to be homophobic, as it would seem to fit in with his extreme right politics. maybe he’ll soften in his old age.
beaches is an awesome movie never feel bad about renting it.
love this article benjamin
edit to add: i’ll get in first about assuming, yes it makes an ass out of you and me
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What a great article! You have broadened my outlook. Thank you!
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This is a superb piece of writing and I wish I’d written it.
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