Erica
From Mia: I’ve known Erica Bartle for a few years now even though we’ve only seen each other face to face a couple of times. I first got to ‘know’ her through her hugely popular and thoroughly engaging blog Girl With A Satchel where she writes a lot about magazines but more and more about her own take on life. Because Erica’s take is not one that receives much coverage in the mainstream media; she is a devout Christian.
She wasn’t always, you’ll find that out in her post, below, but more and more as she gets older, Jesus and religion is becoming more important to her. I’ve always found Erica’s take on popular culture quirky and refreshing and I’m a big fan of her blog and her. The way she writes honestly and insightfully about her own beliefs and struggles on so many different levels…..for a while now I’ve wanted to publish something on Mamamia about Christianity.
We have indeed published many articles that have been critical of the church (and of religion in general) and I’m a strong believer in the merit of listening to and learning from different perspectives.
I invited Erica to run this post about how Christianity is incorporated into her everyday life and being the shy type she is (truly) she was nervous about it. But I was persistant!
Erica (and her husband Jim) will be reading your comments and answering questions if you have them. I understand that religion can sometimes be a hot-button topic and comments are of course welcome. But can I make a special point of asking everyone to remain respectful. Whether you agree or not with someone’s deeply held beliefs, it’s vital we respect them…..
So. Here’s Erica’s post….
Each Thursday night I meet with a vibrant, interesting, gorgeous group of women to discuss life and God in much the same way a book club might meet. There are two flight attendants, a naturopath, a youth worker, a chef, an SES worker and a writer-cum-journalist amongst us. Three are mums, there’s a baby on the way, and three of us are childless. It’s a wonderful meeting of experience and minds and personalities, and we garner strength in each other’s company. Sometimes we laugh, often we cry, but we each leave with the comforting thought that we are not alone in this world, in our struggles, nor in our devotion to the Lord.
Our upbringings were incredibly different: there’s a childhood spent in an African boarding school, one spent in Papua New Guinea with her missionary parents, a farm girl who still picks cotton with her family… Of all of them, I’m the only one who wasn’t brought up in an overtly Christian household, though also the only one to have experienced the very traditional Catholic church.
I attended a Catholic primary school in Brisbane, where I received my first Holy Communion and also my Confirmation, at which time I adopted the new name Francis, in respect for Saint Francis. The only thing I remember from Religious studies at my Catholic convent high school was watching the ABC series The Brides of Christ in absolute wonderment (Josephine Burns had attended the same school) and thinking for a second that maybe I could become a nun, too.
Though I think I’d always had the sense of awe and respect for God, and saw the value in a Catholic education – as much for the wonderful sense of community spirit as Religious studies – I had done the stereotypical convent school girl thing and rebelled. Stubborn, determined and controlling by virtue of life’s twists and turns, and also full of self-doubt, I was the girl used to expecting the worst just in case (I once did myself out of a job I wanted because I revealed I had a back-up plan rather than the confidence I was the right candidate – perhaps that says something about my faith now, but I like to imagine it’s more sure than anything I’ve done).
image: The Australian
My own recommitment to Christianity came about after a period of serious contemplation and exploration, which happened after I met my now-husband, a young evangelical and pastor’s son. He laid his faith on the table the first night we met, and I had to respect that. He was certainly not a saint, but there was something about his zest for the Lord that was captivating (or was that his biceps?). You’ve got to hand it to the Baptists for being so overt in their faith; it’s not just church on Sundays.
While for Jim, faith was a matter of life and death (he made a commitment to God after a motorbike accident), my own journey was quite an intellectual as well as a spiritual undertaking. I’m not a scholar by any stretch, but I’m a bookish girl, and a researcher and an avid knowledge-seeker, so God used books and all sorts of interesting people and a well-worn and much loved Bible to nurture and teach me.
Believe me, the idea that God sent His son to earth to atone for my sins, weaknesses and shortcomings wasn’t an easy concept to swallow. And the act of making the commitment itself was quite confusing, too: so, what, I just say out loud that Jesus Christ is the Lord of my life and I’m saved? How odd.
But once I took the plunge, I was filled with an unmistakable spiritual vigour. I literally skipped to work on a Holy Spirit high, dished out good deeds like Pollyanna and attended my own church and Bible study (separate from my husband) with all the eagerness of a Girl Guide on a cookie run. Brownie points! But then my bubble burst. What transpired after that was nothing short of a despairing time of searching and seeking and ‘Why, why, why?’. Little did I know that salvation is a continuing process… hard and enjoyable in equal measure, and God is there persevering with you all along.
My own faith has matured and grown over the past six years as I’ve slowly, often begrudgingly, given parts of myself up to God, who’s done a miraculous cleaning up job and shown me the many errors of my ways. It’s not been easy. As an eager Christian wanting to dispense her faith like Pez, I’ve been humbled many a times when a misfired sentiment was uttered at a coffee table or entered another’s inbox or a blog post… “This blog has become too much like church”, said one of my former followers before trotting off with a, “So long, farewell, this used to be a good blog.” Fair enough.
As someone who was a bit of a people-pleaser growing up, this has been one of the hardest things to let go of – the idea that you will be liked or accepted. As a writer, it’s the idea also that you won’t be listened to. Thankfully, any residual self-pity dissipates when I walk past the Anglican Church where I got married and see Christ pinned to the Cross in a stain-glassed window. What right do I have to complain when the suffering of Christ, for the sake of imperfect, small, insignificant me, is so plain?
There are things in this life I’ll never comprehend and things I don’t like and people who are difficult and new struggles I’ll have to encounter. But when these things inevitably pop up and break through my Happy Little Christian cloud, I take refuge in God’s presence, beautiful word and eternal promises, and remember the wonderful things He’s already done for me, turning my frame of mind from strife, fear, worry and doubt to peace, praise, hope and gratefulness. “You are my defender and protector. You are my God; in you I trust.” Psalm 91: 2
If you want to read more about Erica and her husband Jim, journalist Christine Jackman did a fantastic cover story and profile for The Australian magazine a few months ago which you can find here……
Comments
384 Comments so far
Thanks for that article/blog Erica.. that was uplifting to read!
I feel really thankful that your post was made… that you said ‘yes’ to Mia… and opened up like that. You have been gracious in all your responses and never judgmental… and have defended the gospel of Jesus really beautifully for others. As a sister in Christ, I feel really proud of you!
I have a question though.. or rather something that would be nice for you to address if you could? You mentioned recommitting to Christianity. As a young believer growing up in a baptist church, I really never questioned this whole idea or phrase. One day though.. I felt really convicted that this word was not true to the gospel… and often I heard stories about people ‘recommitting their lives to Jesus’.. when in reality, it didn’t seem like they had accepted Christ as their King fully to begin with. They knew HIm.. they respected His majesty, they attended church every Sunday.. but I could positively say without bias (after listening to their testimony) that they didn’t have a personal relationship with Jesus until this ‘recommitment’.
You said “Though I think I’d always had the sense of awe and respect for God”…. you rebelled from God. Do you mean that you knew about God’s power and presence… but chose to ignore Him?
You’ve also written that you did all the things expected of someone that follows Christ within the parameters of a Catholic setting. Does this mean that you believed God existed but did not trust in Christ as your King & Saviour? Or did you truly do those things of your own free will but decided to walk away from His ways?
The reason I ask is because I’ve had discussion with people recently about whether it’s actually possible to fully know Christ, accept Him.. and yet walk away and do your own thing… truly fully rejecting Jesus… and then turn back to Christ. In my reading of the Word and experience… I would say not, that if you have fully accepted Christ as King, received His Holy Spirit as a guarantee for salvation… you can wander and not follow God’s rules, (ie, yoking to unbelievers, being angry with God and ignoring Him) but you still have the gift of salvation, and do not reject Him.
What do you say about this? Did you actually recommit after once knowing Him and rejecting?… Or did you never truly know Him whilst going through the ‘religious’ motions?
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I’ve always loved the parable of the Prodigal Son. ( in Luke 15) The son walked away and squandered the gifts his father gave him. Yet, he did not lose his sonship, his father came running towards him when his son came to his senses and returned. Interesting too that the older brother who stayed and did the right thing all along, could not rejoice for the lost returning, and being given forgiveness and favour. God’s ways and grace (undeserved love) are beyond our comprehension.
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Thank you Erica for sharing your story-very encouraging!
And thank you MM for publishing a positive story on Christianity.
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Hi Erica
Thanks for your lovely and articulate post about faith. I have a very complicated relationship with my Catholic upbringing. I’m gay and have grown up feeling unworthy and dirty due primarily to the expectations imposed by being a Catholic. The thing is I never felt any homophobic antagonism from the church towards me; it was more with the members of the Catholic community.
Nevertheless, I’ve always been fairly religious. I migrated to Australia three years ago and that coincided with my dad getting colon cancer. I held on to my faith as steadfastly as I could. And I must say it did help me. I vividly remember going to St. Francis Church in Adelaide, lighting a candle and saying a prayer for my dad and my family. I’d cry, from time to time. But I always have a sense of serenity and calm afterwards.
My dad passed away last year. I wasn’t able to make it to his hospital bed. Was still in Melbourne when he passed away and that flight back home was horrendous. Still, I prayed. And I found myself amidst my family as the strong one. Someone who they can lean on in that difficult period.
Look, my view of Catholicism and Christianity is that it’s built on love. My faith has been strengthened by that. My love for my family and my partner has made me a better person. All the baggage around christianity and homosexuality and all other issues fade into the background once I’m inside the church.. lighting a candle… and saying a little prayer for my family, friends and loved ones.
Erwin
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Erwin, I truly got spine tingles reading your comment, and I think I might cry; the touch of Christ does that, I think. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
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I’m a regular reader of Erica’s amazing and incredibly insightful blog. It was such a joy discovering it – as a Christian myself it was so refreshing to find a blog that speaks about a love of fashion and style (in all its forms) from a Christian perspective.
Amy – in response to your doubts about Christianity, I believe that ‘faith’ and ‘religion’ are two very different things. My ‘faith’ is a relationship with God – it is a personal conviction that God loves me, God desires a relationship with me, that the relationship has been destroyed by sin, but God loves me so much He gave His Son as a sacrifice to repair that relationship. ‘Religion’ is a man-made institution that seeks to interpret a ‘faith’ relationship.
History has seen a lot of people do something in ‘God’s Name’. These things have often been evil. But I think blaming God for that is misguided. It’s like saying ‘Science is harmful’ because it’s led to terrible things like the Atom bomb. But remember, science is merely the method used by people to do something harmful. The Atom bomb itself is not harmful- it’s the way HUMAN BEINGS use the Atom bomb that is harmful. Likewise, people are not motivated by God to wage wars and hurt people – people are motivated by greed and ignorance to wage wars and hurt people.
In relation to there being a discrepancy between God of the Old Testament and God of the New – there is no discrepancy – God is consistently loving, and forgiving throughout the Bible. The Old Testament is not a message of wrath and destruction, but hope for the future, found in the New Testament.
Amy raises some really valid points which cannot be fully explained in a comment on a blog post. I would encourage anyone who has questions like Amy’s to speak with a friend who is Christian about their relationship with God – not about their religion, but about their heart and personal journey. If I could, Amy, I would take you out for coffee to talk about everything you question because they are valid questions and the God of the Universe is totally up to answering them.
So thanks, Erica, for your blog – an honest portrayal of your very real relationship with our Loving Father.
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Lauren, thank you for your words.
I’m so thankful that other Christians have been able to shed light while I’ve been offline/otherwise occupied. Amy’s wonderful questions have given me a lot of food for thought, and I’m still composing responses to many from last week! Debt of gratitude!
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I have known Erica personally for many years and can attest to the fact that she is a kind, gracious and lovely human being. She is smart and I really love her blog. I respect her in the hugest way possible. But somehow – I don’t know why, I feel VERY resistant to reading about religion on blogs…. WHY IS THIS?
I feel that religion (whatever yours is) is personal – and this it conjures some kind of RISE in me. I suppose I feel that spruiking your religion or faith just doesn’t belong in the public domain.
It fascinates me to observe this reaction. WHY can’t you talk about your faith the way you can talk about politics or the environment or celebrities? Maybe because it is exclusive. I am not a christian, so I can’t join in. Could that be it? It makes me feel left out? If I read someone’s post about their faith with Judaism (I am very irreligious but am Jewish by birthrite), would I have the same reaction?
I suppose I feel that religion separates people. And that blogs are a community – about togetherness. YES like minded believers can congregate – but what about the rest of us? Does it alienate us?
SUCH a hard choice to decide which way to go, but Erica it is YOUR blog and that means you get to write about WHATEVER YOU WANT!! If people want to stay, they can stay, if they don’t, they can go. I think real bloggers like you and Mia are ones that are true to themselves. And that’s why people come back. You share yourselves, your thoughts, your fears – and that’s what resonates with us.
So keep doing what you’re doing little lady.
Love from the left out little jew. Ha!
xxxx
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Dani L,
In all honesty, you have pointed to my initial reluctance in having the post published in this space, which was by invitation from Mia (thank you, Mia) and not off my own bat (my own blog is the place for that). Mia and I did have a dialogue about this, through which I came to appreciate that Mamamia is about putting the personal in the social/cultural/political…
Your thoughts do speak about something very interesting in the Australian public sphere, and media sphere, about certain taboos: in other nations faith is as common a talking point as food. We are far more comfortable talking about sex or politics or footy here.
Perhaps that is simply the church/state/fourth estate divide, but increasingly matters of morality are entering discussion, both private and public, which I think gives us cause to think about where we are deriving our values; our sense of what’s right and what’s wrong.
We are a young nation, a sceptical questioning one with a certain amount of antipathy towards authority, so it makes sense that we’re cynical, shy even, about matters of religion, more so given wide coverage of negative aspects of the faith, as the news cycle is geared that way (and, of course, such things must be brought to our attention).
But if we are able to discuss things about the body and the mind, of politics and law and science, why not also the soul?
Or is it, perhaps, that some mediums, some platforms, such as books and journals, are more commensurate with such matters? I’m curious to know. I did compose a post to this affect last week, but coincidentally am yet to give it an appropriate platform.
Erica
P.S. Thanks also for your lovely words. And please bear with me while I get to answering other comments between other work and such.
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Indeed, if anything I was arguing with myself. Why do I feel this way? Why HAS religion become Taboo? I think you are right. Do you think maybe in other nations where faith is commonly discussed that maybe they have a more united faith as a nation? I wonder if I have always felt a little alienated growing up in a “christian” society when i wasn’t one. I also think it is interesting that this post has made some people go CRAZY. Don’t take it to heart sister. Religion polarises people. Love it or loathe it. For me, religion is less and less relevant to my life. For you, it has gone quite the other direction. And guess what? We’re both happy and healthy and hopefully good people. Each to their own. Whatever floats ya boat and all that jazz. At the end of the day – we are all the same. We all want the same things. Health and happiness and someone to watch over us. Someone to love us. A roof over our heads. I hate that religion creates such separation. WHY COULDN’T WE ALL BE THE SAME BLINKING RELIGION? Would have saved a lot of problems in history no?
xxxxx
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Just my opinion, in an age where there is sooooo much bad news, we should be able to express the good in our lives, especially when it comes to religion. While I HATE that word (yes I go to church, and yes I believe and am so grateful for the insight and values I have to guide me, I think faith is so much a better word, as it comes from the heart) I think theres so many negative stereotypes that positive article like this should be shared even if you dont agree with 100%. Not just to please everyone, but to help people understand. Because thats where divisions fade, when people really truly wish to understand eachother
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First of all, Erica – a lovely thought-provoking post. I have great respect for people such as yourself who do not, as the phrase is commonly used, “shove their faith down others’ throats”. My partner is an agnostic athiest and sometimes he can do just this, and I find myself getting very upset. He can be very respectful and has learned from me that he should not judge others on their own beliefs either.
I see myself as a borderline agnistic atheist, with tendencides towards Paganism. Whilst I do not belief in the God of the bible, or really a God at all, I feel a strong sense of ‘something’ being out there – but in everything. I think my beliefs are a mish-mash of Buddhist (in terms of reincarnation and some types of karma), Paganism and Native American/Australian Aboriginal nature beliefs – in that I feel very strongly that everything around me has a kind of energy to it. My feelings about the world are extremely difficult to vocalise and put into words however!
I suppose my struggle with Christian forms of belief are these:
*There are so many, MANY denominations, how do you know which one is right? Scrolling through the comments here, I have read answers to some people’s claims about Christianity and homosexuality, and read that some Christians have said ‘the people who condemn homosexuality aren’t real Christians’. But who is? And who decides this? Are they not interpretations of the bible? I struggle with the bible being followed because I feel that many, many people pick and choose what they want from it. Whether it be that they choose to interpret that gay people are sinners and will go to Hell, or whether they interpret that man and woman were simply made for each other and a gay man (eg) if he is good and loves God will not. Even this much nicer interpretation I struggle with – if God made man and woman to be together, even if he won’t condemn those they don’t follow this creation, it insinuates that gay men and women ‘choose’ to be gay. This upsets me immensely because it is still, at the end of it all, insinuating that gay people are ‘unnatural’ because they have ‘chosen’ something other than what God made.
*I also struggle with some of the Christian claims that God is all loving, all forgiving, all wonderful etc. I read further down that someone commented about the difference between the Old and the New Testaments. But, old or new, isn’t it all God? Because of my agnosticism, I recently picked up the bible to reread it, and thought for a long long time about the possibility of it being all true. I found myself in terrified tears, calling my partner and begging him to come home because I began to wonder, if it’s all true, am I going to hell? Will we be separated after death and condemned to eternity of being without one another and in pain and misery? I was terified of the God I read in the old testment because he seemed terrifying, cruel and vicious. It took a good hour for my partner to calm me down, and after further thought, I was convinced again of the likligood of it not being real. I suppose this is connected to what I said previously – about people picking and choosing.
*My biggest struggle is when (as has been mentioned numerous times below) people speak of suffering and the world. I find the argument of ‘suffering is created because of humans free will’ very grating. I feel this is something that only people in westernised, priveleged countries will say. America, Australia, the UK and many other parts of Europe are predominately Christian or Catholic (in some form). These countries also happen to be very priveleged and wealthier than many others (eg Africa and South America). Not all the suffering is occurring because of ‘free will’ of others. Nature, weather – these things also contribute. Whilst the Pope has recently amended his thoughts on contraception, it cannot be denied that for many years the norm was to say ‘NO contraception’, and this has contributed to the spread of HIV/AIDS in many African nations. So in my eyes, Christianity/Catholicism has contributed to the suffering in some of these nations. And this is as a result of the interpretation from the bible that contraception is unnatural and against God, because it was interpretted that sex is ONLY for procreation (hence, why gay sex is bad because it cannot possibly lead to birth etc). I therefore feel that Christianity is very much a western religion, which is why I then struggle in my acceptance of it’s reality. If it has had to spread and there are so many nations that are suffering exceedingly, then how can it be true? Isn’t it then just a story? I wholeheartedly belief that Jesus was a real person in history. And Mary also etc. However, I do not believe that he made water into wine, and all the other miracles. I believe he was a good man, who helped many people through compassion and kindness. Isn’t this enough? The virgin-birth is also something I feel is merely a misinterpretation… ‘virgin’ was actually the word used simply for an unmarried woman. So when Mary was called a virgin, it merely meant she was unmarried – not that she hasn’t had sex. This is obviously disputeable and there are others issues I have surrounding this, but this is merely an example I think about.
I hope I haven’t offended anyone with my post – I am not saying that my beliefs are true, or trying to take away from what others belief, merely putting my thoughts out there, this is only how I feel about this topic.
On a final note, while I don’t quite agree with Richard Dawkins that religion is the root of all evil, I do feel that (organised and especially extreme) religion has had a marked affect on the world and not always in a goof way. One of my favourite quotes is this (cannot remember who said it):
“Good people will always do good things. Bad people will always do bad things. But for good people to do bad things, that takes religion.”
I believe that this quote is not saying that all religion is bad etc, it is merely saying that there will be good people who are religious that do good things etc. BUT, there have been so many instances where good people, in the name of their religion or their God/Gods, have done terrible things. Before anyone points out Hitler or Stalin, I note further that yes, they were bad people who did bad things and who were also athiests (although there is still much contention between historians as to whether he was athiest or Catholic!), but they did not do the bad things in the name of atheism. They did them, because they were bad.
Again, Erica – thank you for sharing, it truly was lovely to read your point of view.
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I envy people who have a “passionate relatonship with god” I imagine it is comforting and pleasant and wonderful for those that get it. Like meditation and yoga I just do not get it. I guess I am not a spiritual person.
I still have negative feelings about this brand of christianity- I read an article on contemorary churches and I find them a nit creepy really. It is like they have marketed christianity and made it trendy. Hillsong make over $40 000 000 a year and need an armour truck to pick up the $300 000 dollar cash they bring in each week end.
I much prefer the vowels of poverty to the new “prosperity theology” preached at these churches where they say god makes those rich who he favours.
I don’t like the cool Jesus preeching- i hated at school and I hate it now- I am not really sure why. I guess with my up bringing with a more conservative christian faith it jars with my vision of christianity. Why I care when I am an athiest is anyones guess.
But the theory the big pentacostal churches are using the Tax free status of church’s in australia as a loop whole to make alot of money resonates with me.
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A loophole to make a lot of money? And what do you think they do with this money? They pay for the maintainance of the church and pay the pastor then they give it to other people. At our church a full account disclosure is given every year. Our pastor isn’t paid much, $60,000, not a lot when you consider he has 3 uni degrees and works 6 days and is available from 7-10 each day. We give money to lots of different programs, such as Tear, World Vision, we pay for a school in Africa, we paid to build a regional airport in Papua New Guinea and we paid to put electricity in on an entire island in Yemen. We help feed homeless and those who can’t afford to put a meal on the table. That’s a few of the things I can recall us doing recently. Our money goes to lots of wonderful causes, here in Australia and overseas, I really don’t see how you can have a problem with that.
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I read this blog and many of the comments out loud to my hubby as we were driving to work. It’s become a common thing to catch-up on mamamia together! Ha! Although hubby won’t read himself he insists I ‘read aloud’ when he sees it appear on my iPad! We loved this post.
Erica is a study in grace and elegance and we were blown away by the easy and non-confronting way she presents her take on life. A lesson in writing well and taking your reader on the journey of understanding.
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Did Erica or Jim end up replying to any posts? I looked for their names but didn’t see them. Did they reply under different names?
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Erica did, posting under ‘Erica B’.
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Hi Anon, At the time of posting I wasn’t aware that readers were told we would be answering questions. Sorry.
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Great post (and very thoughtful responses to other people’s comments). Kudos to Mia for running this (and I agree that the profile in The Australian was fantastic too).
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Firstly, Mia big thanks for making space for the above article, it absolutely made my day to see it on this site.
Erica, lovely, honest article. Christianity is a day by day experience. It doesn’t proclaim to guarantee a life of ups with no downs. It does however offer peace, strength, joy, love, faith and hope in whatever dose we need, in the moment we need it. Christ on the cross, eternal life; what a beautiful exchange, the Creator giving His all for His treasured creation.
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It was beautiful to read your story of faith and christianity. I often too struggle to explain my active Christian life to other people and why I have attended bible study and taken my first communion aged 37! I am one of three girls and both my sisters have taken their own lives in the past six years. Unimagineable I know! My only explanation of my faith is to say “look at me. I am still here, smelling the roses, seeing the sun in every day, and enjoying life.” People say I am strong; I disagree. I truly believe God is walking alongside me, guiding me and helping me to cope and survive without my beautiful best friends and sisters. I would never have thought I could survive this- so that’s my answer.
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Hi all. If I might make a point about how we can know which of the many faiths around we can believe – there is one big difference between Christianity and any other, and that is that Christianity bases its claims on historical events, the life, death and ressurection of jesus. Our whole faith is founded on these events, all of which have solid historical evidence. If anyone’s interested in finding out about the evidence, I would recommend the center for public Christianity http://www.publicchristianity.org/ or the books by john dickson or lee strobel. Keep questioning everything!
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HI Mimf, I won’t comment on your person beliefs, however I feel it’s important that many other religions also base their faith on what they call historic events also. As a borderline agnostic atheist, I struggle to accept what Christianity calls evidence, but as I accept that many Christians are convinved by this evidence, so too do I accept (and think that others should try to accept) that other faiths also have their own evidence. It’s big call to say that only Christianity bases its claims on historic events and no other faith does.
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Hi Amy,
If you are struggling to believe what Christians call evidence, then you should read some books on the subject that aren’t by Christians but are written by historians. How can you be certain American Civil War happened, or Tutankhamen existed? How do YOU really know? You know they happen because you’ve read about them in books written by historians. So if you would trust historians to write about that subject then you should also trust them to write about Christ. Read anything by John Dickson (as mimf suggested) he is a fantastic Australian historian, who has put a lot of work into working out what can and can’t be proven. I would recommend, “Jesus a short life” as a really easy read and great summary of the historically provable aspects of Jesus’ life.
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Thankyou Erica for your wonderfully honest post!
In reference to a few earlier posts on this subject: sometimes I feel like the atheists are no better then the religious extremists as they cast their aspersions about how what those with religious convictions feel in regards to their faith and its affect on their lives. Whilst respecting their opinion, how can they say with any rational certainty that religious individuals are “misguided” or “mistaken”?
I believe that faith is an incredibly personal thing and would never preach my belief in God to others. It is an ongoing personal journey that is bringing me closer to god, one that stems from the incredibly joyous birth of my son, not from a loss life’s direction. This is how I chose to be thankful and grateful for what I have been given in life and if that helps me be a better version of myself ( not in the better-than-anyone-else sense of the word,but an honest, genuine, loving, kind and compassionate towards others) and inspires me to give back to my local community, then how can that be a misguided life choice?
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Agreed Liz! It bugs me a lot when people comment on how they hate religion and religious people because “all they do is push their religion onto other people and try to convert everybody to their way of thinking, religion is ridiculous and not true.”
But then they themselves are forcing their opinions on me as a Christian! Such hypocrisy!
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The Religion of Chance – How I Lost My Faith In Atheism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pEM3g1Cmyo&fmt=35
Your Welcome ;0)
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Pity the Pope won’t approve birth control to be promoted by missionaries in the developing world, perhaps there wouldn’t be so many starving dying babies if he didn’t subscribe to such an archaic doctrine on that subject. Would also help prevent the spread of HIV, but it seems he’s not concerned about that either. Part of me would like to believe in God, but in my heart and mind I just can’t take that leap and really believe it and Catholic doctrines like the one I just mentioned don’t help.
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Even though I am an Atheist, I do like to study and look at the different religions and branches within each. Surprisingly, despite the old style robes and hats, I find Catholics to be much more progressive in attitudes than many other branches, especially the evangelical branches. Go to a few of their services and you will be shocked what they are telling the kids.
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Actually, you’ll find that the Pope recently said that it was okay to use condoms in the case of places with high HIV, like Africa etc. Which is quite progressive considering the history of faith.
I find that a lot of the negative comments regarding Christianity and Catholics are based on the way the church used to be. You would be surprised by how much church has changed post vatican. I believe that people should really experience how church is today before forming such a negative opinion, based on how the church used to be.
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I stumbled across a word in philosophy class at uni that I think defines what I believe: pantheism. It’s a similar view I think to what some have said below.
“Pantheism is the view that the Universe (Nature) and God are identical. Pantheists thus do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god.” (Wikipedia)
I believe that nature is sacred, there is something spiritual and special in all of us and in all living things that should be respected – but I believe it’s up to me to set my own moral compass and I don’t believe in/ subscribe to organised religion. (On the whole I think it does more harm than good when you think about it globally. It’s devisive.)
But I totally respect people’s right to believe in whatever they choose. My Dad for example is getting more Christian as he gets older (and since he married a very Christian woman) and I respect that and let him take my daughter to Church. I think he may read her Bible stories too. I don’t mind, as long as he respects that I am not raising her as a Catholic…
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MissKateDaily,
I dabbled with the idea of pantheism when I was in Year 12 and dating a Taoist. I had been reading the poetry of Robert Browning and thought Bob Marley was pretty cool, too. This is not to dismiss all of these concepts, but to say that I understand the appeal, and the reasoning, and it was part of my life for a short time.
Erica
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this sounds quite patronising
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On reflection it might, but that wasn’t my intention, which was to convey that pantheism was something I explored. The context, around when it happened, might take away from that. I apologise, MissKatieDaily.
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As an atheist I find the idea people can still believe in God fairly ridiculous. But I have thought about it a bit and have come up with a few ideas why people might.
One thing you mention right off the top is the group of people you meet with on Thursday night and how much you love them. Many people who have converted to Christianity that I know are fairly lost or direction less in their life. Not that they are really unhappy, but if you told them what there plans for the next 1-3 years are the couldn’t tell you. You seem to have gone through a similar search for meaning process based upon what you say. The feeling people get of being a Christian is very uplifting for them and gives purpose. They mistakenly feel this is god entering their lives. If you go to an evangelical church they really push this with all the singing and rock bands. It is really feel good, but not God. I almost feel like the pastors are lying to the congregations telling them it is god making them feel good rather than a natural human reaction.
Finally, I am somewhat concerned that many Christians now seem to be getting sucked into things like literal bible translations and the young earth and noah’s flood type stuff that goes with it. I almost equate this with climate change deniers, ignoring the obvious facts in front of them. The only reason I can come up with is people seem to be increasing anti-science. I feel like as we have so much information and knowledge now, far more than any one person can hope to comprehend, people are instead just rejecting knowledge. This could be in the hope for a simpler life, or it could just be tall poppy syndrome, people don’t like being told what is right and wrong by boffins.
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Hi Craig,
The great irony is I was perfectly happy in my life, which was by the world’s standards pretty great, before God came knocking. Great career, great co-workers, great city… Letting all of that go wasn’t easy. Of course, the story presented here is a simplified break down of 30-odd years of life story. But I did think my life’s purpose was to be a magazine editor. My first experience of an evangelical church was not great, I must say, and I do think the Christian faith is often sold without identifying what’s in the fine print. Life does not get easier – in my experience it gets harder, and then great, then easy, then hard… all character and resilience building, and I have to admit the latter has not been easy for a mollycoddled type like myself (overcompensation for parental divorce). And knowledge? Getting my head around the Bible and theology has not been a walk in the park, while I’m not averse to partaking in a bit of lively banter in a range of areas (I am a master of none).
I believe in climate change, and man’s impact on the environment, but also in the earth’s amazing ability to heal itself, though if the human body is anything to go by, in terms of grand design, then there’s only so much it can take before it breaks.
I love the word boffin. And I was an avid member of the Double Helix Science Club at one time in my life. And all this is not to make light of your reasoning – I’m just not of the opinion that Christianity is for simple folk with no sense of direction given I’ve encountered so many wildly intelligent people (psychiatrists, academics, scientists, etc), both in person and through texts who share the same faith, which reassures me in the thought that, “Hey, maybe I am not completely nuts”.
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I really enjoyed reading this post. How refreshing to read this instead of the usual negative connotations relating to christianity so prevalent in pop culture society. Thankyou for sharing!
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This is an interest topic to post on Mia, I do hope you guys can keep it all even and also include some posts on other religions for discussion too, like Judaism, Islam, Buddism, etc.
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This has been a really interesting discussion, the best I’ve seen for ages about faith and religion. Thanks Erica, MM and posters who have contributed really valuable points. Lots of food for thought here.
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I think Erica’s article is beautifully expressive and she is a wonderful role models to others.
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Its so true that faith is a journey, that things do come to burst our bubble and although its not the promise of a happily ever after, roses all the way, we have this amazing person, this creator of the universe who wants a relationship with us, wants to help us through the tough stuff and wants us to reach our highest potential. We can’t separate God, faith and life. So to that follower who thought your blog sounded too much like church, well, hey, church and LIFE are about living in a relationship with God.
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I really enjoyed reading this, Erica
I admire your faith and your strength and decision to be true to yourself. Keep going!
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Hi Erica,
I’ve been reading through your post and replies. You are an encouragement to me – respectful, kind, and honest about your beliefs, acknowledging Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
I appreciate your blog also xx
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I have had the pleasure of meeting Erica and was enchanted by her passion for life and our shared interest in body image issues. I love reading Girl With a Satchel (sometimes even more than magazines themselves!) and always appreciate her views on pop and media culture. While never having been a devoted Christian myself, I enjoy Erica’s writing on her faith and love for God too. Her posts on her religious beliefs always make me think more about my own life, being a better person, and being grateful for my life. Thank you Erica. Julie Parker
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I respect anyone who shows faith in something bigger than themselves, but also respects another’s right to believe differently.
Erica seems to fit that bill perfectly. Well done.
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You know Erica, one of the things that worries me about immersing yourself so far within any religious framework, like you and some of the other commentators have, is that you close yourself to so many other different ways of seeing the world…
I notice you quote a lot from the Bible when emphasising a point…and you live your life assuming that Jesus stands beside you at all times, helping and guiding you through the tough times…But what about all the other great teachers from other religions, or all the great secular philosophers? There are so many other paths to wisdom that it worries me when a person shuts out all the other viewpoints…that’s one thing that an Atheist doesn’t have to do…we can find truth in many different viewpoints and philosophies, even religious ones…
Does that worry you at all?
I know not all Christians are the same…some of the commentators below seem to practice a much more open type of Christianity where they are open to ideas outside of the traditional Christian framework?
What’s your view on this?
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Hi John James,
I work from a public library most days, and one of my greatest pleasures is immersing myself in the works and thoughts of others. Though, of course, like most people I do gravitate towards those texts that support my world view, I also like to be challenged. My Christian sensibility is absolutely the framework through which I read such texts, which is both problematic and helpful. In the past, I have been a sort of closeted Christian, preferring to immerse myself in Christian literature, but with more security in my faith, I feel I’m even more open to reading on other faiths, and history, and philosophy – one experiences seasons for different texts, I think. A couple of months ago, I read every feminist text I could get my hands on. Recently it’s been media. Now it’s different religions. I have just finished reading Camilla Gibb’s ‘The Beauty of Humanity Movement’ which makes references to Buddhism. I can appreciate the beauty in ideas and logic and crafts in any manner of subjects all the more keenly aware of how uniquely God created us, and how we are all an expression of Him in some way, shape or form, through music, the visual arts, writing, film, or serving at the checkout… I really believe that creative types and thinkers will have God bursts of amazing expression, which can often be encumbered by the world’s hunger/thirst for that particular person, which I’m sure can be wearying for them. No mistake that Jesus took a lot of time out to just be by himself and pray.
I hope that rambling comment makes sense!
Erica
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Cool! Good to know!
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Great article Erica, really enjoyed reading about your faith experience.
Mia, I was one of those who as a Christian felt that sometimes mamamia had an anti Christian bias. Huge kudos to you for publishing this article and time to eat humble pie and apologise !!!! Look forward to reading other articles from others about their faith – agree with others that one on Judaism would be great too.
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I have been on that evangelical bus before. In university I was heavily involved in Christian activities and would spend an hour or two each day reading the bible abs praying, as well as time attending various groups, training sessions, church music practice, bible study etc.
I prayed to God for everything – parking spots, exam preparation, safe travel, thinness. It didn’t work. I still haven’t worked out whether it is even meaningful or appropriate to pray for things like that. But too many instances of unanswered prayer and years of living in a state where I was always trying so damn hard to get closerto God led me to gradually move away from it all.
I now read articles like Erica’s and can recall being in that frame of mind, where you are always trying to find opportunities to explain what Jesus did and internally taking every thought, every possibly selfish desire of your own and crucify it, and I know I am much healthier and happier now and so is everyone around me. I just didn’t find Christian practice as it was demonstrated to me to be doable.
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I never pray for a parking spots or green lights (I’m always late), but I always thank God when they come my way …
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That describes my experience very well, too, Melany.
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Melany,
I have been there too! Have you read Watchman Nee’s ‘The Normal Christian Life’, or ‘The Growing Pains of Adrian Plass’? Well, they helped guide my faith when Jesus seemed far too onerous a concept to take on (I also hid from the Old Testament for about a year, then took the plunge and worked out God wasn’t such a bad guy after all, but a very complex being who is quite like mankind – in need of genuine love. No mistake we were made in His image).
Anyway, I would often be thinking, “Oh, God, I am never going to be like Jesus… I am helpless!”. But then God gently reminded me that it was not my job to reinvent the wheel. What Jesus did on the cross is DONE and was done to set me free to live life to the full, not so I could wallow in self-loathing or try to live like a 33-year-old man who lived 2000 years ago (though, obviously, all His ways were good and true – perfection in human form; try being a perfectionist and living up to THAT kind of perfection).
So, while I had to do a lot of personal/emotional digging to get to the root of why I was finding it so hard spiritually to find the same freedom in Christ I thought my husband had found, I did much navel-gazing, which I felt ashamed about at the time (our whole culture is based around the Nike mantra, “Just do it!”).
But, you know, for some of us, things just take longer. I didn’t “get” Maths until about Year Four and then I blitzed it. I have some sort of cerebral blockage. Some might call it slowness. Stupidity? Whatever, concepts just take a while to gel with me, and so it was with my faith. We all experience it differently.
Once I got past that, which was seriously 2-3 years of dealing with parental divorce issues, abandonment issues, body image issues, low self-worth issues, self-doubt issues (they linger) etc., I realised, with fresh new eyes, that what God/Jesus requires is that I know I am loved unconditionally. With that kind of love bubbling on the inside, I’m more able to simply be the best me I can be. Which sounds very Oprah-ish, but it’s not about striving to be a shiny/brighter/successful me, but one who is comfortable with her own identity: the good, the bad, the past, the present. But there’s a proviso: I also had to view myself as someone WORTHY of Christ, while also being humbly hopeless without His help.
This can make Christ seem a bit of a crutch, which can become a burden for Christians, I think, lulling them into a state of couch-potato apathy (“I’m saved, it’s done, I can just sleep all day now or go on sinning till Sunday!”), so it’s helpful to be reminded that some days you need a crutch, because that is life, but other days not nearly so much, and the further you get along the righteous path, the easier it is just to make good choices in line with the Gospel without constant second-guessing, and can I phone a friend?
Christ commanded us to LOVE the Lord our God with all our hearts, souls and minds, and being an expression of that love, in my own unique way, is really the only thing I have to do each day. It’s not as complicated as perhaps I have made it in the past, and it’s certainly lightened my spiritual load.
Erica
P.S. I still have issues with praying for parking or for anything of a material nature but find that God is readily keen to bless if it’s in His best interests for us. I got a rock star park just today.
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Love her blog and appreciate that she does not shove it down her reader’s throats. I cannot fathom how intelligent people can suspend rational thought and believe in fairy tales. I take an anthropological view of religion; it seems that many people need to have this kind of belief but personally find it difficult to understand how, in an age of scientific discovery, they need to attribute everything that happens to some kind of cosmic plan. Maybe it’s just too scary to acknowledge that life is random!
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Love you Erica!
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Right back atcha, EJ.
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In response to atheists:
It is not right to demean the beliefs of others with words like ‘imaginary friend’ etc. Atheism is not equivalent to intellectual superiority. In fact, by studying physics and biology – it only becomes clear that science cannot provide all the answers. This of course is not equivalent with the proven existence of God – but believing in something bigger than the petty, greedy, lust-driven homo sapiens is not stupid.
The big bang does not disprove a higher power – in fact it is surprisingly compatible with an ‘intervention’. The odds of nothing/ particle soup producing a universe capable of supporting life are tiny, and yet it happened. How did ‘life’ begin? Yes, we began as microscopic organisms, but where exactly did that spark of life come from? Rocks, clouds and stars have compositions but they do not have life or sentience.
No atheist can answer these questions – dawkins and hitchens might think they can, but their theories do not stand up to scrutiny.
One further thought. It is too easy in the comfortable, educated life of the west to say that religion is unnecessary. How about for the mother in Afghanistan who has lost 3 children in war, who cant read or write and has an abusive husband? What if her only comfort is that if she praises God, she will be rewarded in paradise? Religion gives wretched lives meaning. It makes each individual worth something; and it gives hope that suffering is not in vain. This is no proof of God – but it reiterates that religion is important. For many people, it is all they have.
I respect atheists for their opinion but am disheartened about the way it is often expressed.
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When I use the term “imaginary friend” I don’t mean it to be demeaning…it’s just an accurate representation of what a religious belief feels like for someone like me…as an Atheist, I see people who have deep personal relationships with their deities, but I know this relationship isn’t real…to me, a religious person has an “imaginary friend” that gives them comfort and a moral framework…in most cases, there’s nothing wrong with that…
So stop assuming that “imaginary friend” is a term of ridicule….
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Morning John,
I wholeheartedly support your right to your beliefs, but have you thought that you should possibly stop using the term “imaginary friend” when describing your beliefs? Others obviously find it offensive and take it as ridicule, so maybe it’s time try and think of another way to articulate yourself?
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No…it’s an accurate description of how I perceive religious belief…any implied ridicule is in the eye of the beholder…
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Hi JJ,
I don’t have a problem with the term.
I think the problem for some others is that ‘imaginary friend’ is inextricably linked to childhood naivety.
For example, I’m not into motor racing and I cannot fathom why grown men would take pleasure in watching it all day. It reminds me of boys playing with their Hot Wheels cars… so if I walked into my brother’s loungeroom and asked how his brumm brumm car show was going, can you imagine his response?
It’s not a perfect analogy, but it might explain why so many object to your use of it.
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HA! This made me laugh out loud. Brumm brumm car show! But yes, good point.
JJ I think people take offence because you’re saying “I know it isn’t real” not “I think it isn’t real” or “I believe it isn’t real” and the term imaginary friend implies that it’s all in the person’s head. When for the person who devoutly believes, it is perfectly real, they *know* it is and quite possibly resent your saying it isn’t.
However, like Karen, I wasn’t offended.
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It is derogatory. By using the term imaginary you imply firstly that said belief is absolutely untrue and at the same time suggest that it is not just false but a delusion – a figment of one’s imagination. Friend implies a side by side figure of human like qualities and proportions. And as someone else said, it harks back to childhood naievity.
To use this term grossly demeans they way in which a spiritual person thinks. I am not an idiot, and i personally don’t have a lot of time for rituals, specific rules and interreligious conflict – but i believe there is a power bigger than myself. This power bears no relationship to a bearded man holding my hand. In my mind, a higher power (God then) may be better appreciated by gravity, sunsets, miosis, vision, evolution and complex emotions. The laws of nature rather than the laws of man.
I find it somewhat ridiculous that any old atheist can come and make fun of me. I read and study every day – i believe my opinion is informed and valid. I understand atheism, both informed and the lazy excuse for hedonism type – but i dont ridicule it.
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I believe the original point was about intellectual superiority – by saying “I know that relationship isn’t real”, that’s what you are doing. You can’t KNOW that.
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One thing an atheist will happily tell you is that they don’t need to prove anything. You can’t prove nothing. If the religion wants to assert there is a god it is up them to prove it, peer review it and publish in a journal. Up until that happens, it isn’t real. If people call them out for making assertions they can’t back up the solution is simple, get the evidence to back it up.
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Craig, if you actually read peer reviewed journals you would realise that they are full of opinion just like everything else.
And if you would like to pursue the philosophical path of proof, then perhaps you would care to explain to me how the big bang happened, is love real if we cannot see it (or write papers proving it), do we actually exist or are we just holograms or stuck in a matrix etc. It is actually impossible to prove anything – all you have is a burden of evidence favouring one side or the other. Can you prove that there is no higher power governing our existence? I’d care to see your evidence (beyond the preschool level of not being able to see a man that looks like God), or journal publication. Or else you could accept that all theological belief or lack thereof is unproven and therefore individual opinions are equally valid.
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I became more agnostic and open the more biology, physics and philosophy I studied. I completely agree with a lot of what you say. I think the odds of life starting though are small but not as small as one would think?
I’m thinking of the Stanley-Urey experiment that proved the organic precursers of life could be produced in laboratory conditions by simulation of the primordial chemical constituents of the Earth. Okay so admittedly there is still a long way to go from amino-acids to complex bio-molecules but its still a big step.
It is my understanding that the entropic physical processes of the universe given the right situations actually favour the formation of organic molecules. I’ve studied statistical mechanics and I’m a bit awestruck that the most cherished of all the physical laws – the second law – which is at heart random and statistical, perhaps manifests on the macroscopic level to energetically favour the process the life.
When I first read this experiment I just saw it as proof of the higher statistical probability of life- I completely missed the fact that our universe seems to have the creation of life built into its physical laws and how astonishing that is. I’ve read the research of mathematicians who have used this fact in addition to the common availability of carbon to argue that life is actually realistically quite common in the universe.
But WHY is the process of life built into our universe? Stephen Hawkings would argue that it trivially true because only universes that favour life will have life – there is of course no life present and consciously reflecting in the possibly infinite universes that don’t support life, of course the one we happen to be in does….
I guess if we can get around infinite universes that have all quantum tunneled themselves into existence with no cause – then what Hawkings says does sound reasonable.
But I remember the famous Arkansas lawsuit which distinguished creationist science from empirical science and two of the important distinguishing features of science were that it is falsifiable and that is does not start with the conclusion and refuse to change it regardless of the evidence that arises in the course of investigation.
But isn’t that what many atheists do? Start with the conclusion and fit everything they ever encounter within that framework and refuse to consider even the possibility that they are wrong (falsifiability?).
I can’t even begin to get my head around the nature of the universe and reality – I respect atheists too but similarly worry there is a growing dogmatism in addition to an inferred but misplaced intellectual superiority.
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I came across this blog by chance or I think it was? Anyway I’m really please to see an open and sensible debate about religion. I usually find the religion basher get more annoyed then people with faith!
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Jenni x
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How did you make a link with customised text?
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Fantastic post. I find the religion thing a little confusing and as a Christian I try to make it less confusing. Basically, I love God and try to treat people as I think He would like me to treat them. I pray (talk to Him as I would my best friend) and try to make time just to listen. It’s funny the amazing ways I hear His voice, like through a friend, or a thought or feeling that just won’t budge! Loving Him was simply the best decision I’ve ever made.
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Kay, I agree – nothing can quench my thirst quite like God.
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“nothing can quench my thirst quite like God.”
For this to be true, you would have had to try many other means to “quench your thirst” in order to know that god is the best “quencher”, can you let us know what they might be?
And what exactly do you mean by thirst? This is the type of phrase that a lot of Christians use, but I’m never entirely sure what they’re referring to. I worry that’s it’s just a buzzphrase with no real meaning.
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Ick, yes, jargon, yuck. So, I guess what God addresses for me is some inner sense of knowing/being/doing that feels very right, as well as a richness of experience when I’m in His company. Tears flow, smiles widen, I feel like I am five years old… it’s just JOYFUL. And other times, it’s a comfort to turn to His word and read just the right thing for that moment in time, or to find Jesus reflected in some other person perhaps without them even knowing it. It’s the feeling that all is well with your soul; a bubbling over of God’s spirit.
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It blows my mind that any human being with half a brain in this day and age can wholeheartedly believe in a higher power – and, furthermore, believe that the nonsense they happened to be indoctrinated with, usually by way of their birth country (God/Jesus/Allah/Budda etc.), must be the correct information and the proper way to live.
I am an atheist, but I lead more of a ‘Christian’ life than most of my friends. I am not guided by a ‘god’ or religion – I have a conscience. I don’t lie. I don’t cheat. I don’t steal. I go above and beyond for people – both my family and friends, as well as those less fortunate – and I don’t expect to be patted on the back for it. I live with integrity.
I don’t believe life is short. I believe life is long (mainly as a result of modern medicine) – and that once you’re gone, that’s it. I think this is a good thing. (Why anyone would want to live forever – here or in an ‘afterlife’ – is beyond me. And if you do, stop being greedy! Give someone else a chance to experience life. This planet can’t accommodate you FOREVER.)
If I DID believe in God, my assessment of him would be that he’s a narcissistic sadist. For instance, the way the animal kingdom works is downright cruel. (God: ‘I know! I’ll create these beautiful creatures, but in order for them to survive, I’ll make one species have to hunt and kill another species, and so on… ooh, this is going to be a hoot!) Human beings are inherently flawed (God did a LOUSY job!) and, as a result, there is insurmountable suffering in the world.
While I believe religious people have their right to an opinion, and I certainly don’t wish them any harm (there are, in fact, many religious people I really admire), if I were to be perfectly honest with myself, I really DON’T respect their views on ‘God’ and religion. The only reason why it bothers me is because so much of our world revolves around it – revolves around a fictitious being! That’d be like someone saying, ‘I believe in Santa Claus – I know, every year, he gets on a flying reindeer-driven sleigh and delivers toys to every child in the world within 24 hours’, and me having to respect it (and allow my country/world to be dictated by it). I’m sorry – I don’t. It’s ridiculous.
If JK Rowling were alive several thousand years ago (and a man), she would have been a contributor to the bible – because she sure knows how to spin a good yarn and make everything sound magical.
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Hello, Hmmm. I get where you’re coming from.
Faith has not been an easy nor logical ride for me personally. I was deeply cynical and sceptical for a very long time; you don’t acquire a massive HECS debt only to come away with a blase, unquestioning attitude to information that’s presented to you (well, hopefully not – there are easier ways to waste money!).
I think God designed us to question, to ask the deeper questions, to seek the answer to why we’re here and what it’s all about, though I’m quite sure He sits up there wondering why we spend such an inordinate amount of time discussing “Him” if we don’t believe He exists. He gives us a conscience, a brain, emotions, personality… the under-utilisation or blatant misuse of all these tools probably grieves Him, too.
In regard to being more Christian in the values you practise than the Christians you know, I can understand this and applaud you, too. I’ve not always been an exemplary Christian myself, but for that I think you also pay the price, right here on earth (to my mind, nothing distresses the Christian more than an inability to be perfectly righteous).
Jesus himself said, “The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.” I think that when you come to an understanding of what motivates you to act from your “flesh” (i.e. raw human emotion, experiences, worldly desires, sin itself) and what drives man/woman to act in good conscience in the spirit God has endowed him/her with (a desire to be as God created Him and to be at one with one’s creator), as well as the idea that Christians are called to live to a higher standard of living, and will suffer consequences in this life for falling short (and, indeed, generations after them may suffer the consequences, too), but that “believers” also live in the provision of grace that Jesus came to bestow on them so they can get back up if they fall, it’s easier to see the world as an entirely imperfect place, made up of imperfect people but who mostly desire to be greater than their humanly selves.
Some achieve this blameless, righteous status more easily than others; if it weren’t a sin to envy, I would envy them! Others have been shaped by experiences so horrible, due to the actions of others, that their entire world view cannot be anything but shrouded in darkness. I can only hope that God does shine through to them in some way, and I believe Christians are called upon to do this – the Salvation Army, the Wesley Mission, the work of Mary MacKillop… all these charitable folk doing wonderful things for those of us who perhaps grow up without a hope. And, yes, of course there are non-Christians doing very good work to ease the pain and suffering of others – close to home, we saw this after the Queensland floods. Again, applause.
If all of humanity were to live in a hopeless state of apathy, not seeking to right wrongs or make the world more bearable, I’m not sure how any of us would survive – we see how much will has to do with living in experiences all around us. And God gave us free will to use in any way we desire – the fate of a man/woman is still, ultimately, up to him/her.
In regards to Santa Claus, while I do think he gets a little too much attention at Christmas time, I do think he represents so much of what we live and hope for in this life. Veteran newsman Francis Pharcellus Church put it best in his 1897 editorial to eight-year-old Virginia:
“Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.
Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.
You may tear apart the baby’s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.
No Santa Claus! Thank God he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.”
And Jesus did himself say, “For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children.” (Matthew 19:14)
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Okay, phew. I feel like I am embarrassingly late to class and need to submit a leave pass and then catch up on all the work I missed. Please excuse my absenteeism – it’s been a big day/night offline.
Firstly, thank you, Mia, for your delicate introduction, quite undeserved, and thanks everyone for taking the time to read my preamble on faith – I’ve been humbled by the comments and the multi-layered theological discussion happening here. I love a bit of healthy debate though can appreciate why religion/faith/God is such a sore point for many.
I’m not sure I can do everyone justice, as I’m no theologian, so thanks to those who’ve taken to the task of shaping the debate – including the pastor! – so far. I will try to address some individual comments, as many as I can, over my morning coffee.
But while Jim is currently asleep, he did have an answer regarding one of the general questions to start with: ‘How does religion actually improve your lives and help you make the right choices?’. My response is about three pages long, while his is simply:
“The way in which you can see the difference is that I now live for something so much greater than myself. I have a purpose in my life like I never thought possible and I appreciate the small things in life so much more. I feel like life has been harder since committing to God in many ways, but I also feel it was only after committing to living for God that I really started living.”
There is also some wise advice I inherited from an elderly Christian lady in my community to sleep on: “Keep short accounts with God.”
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I am absolutely blown away by your post Erica. I feel like I am in the same boat, always wanting to please everyone. I’m on my own journey at the moment to finding God and I’m so glad there are other people out there that still believe. I always feel scared about talking about my faith to others for fear of being laughed at these days… but you’re post has made me feel a lot stronger. Thanks so much! I’ll be happy to follow your blog in the future!!
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I hope you find what you’re looking for, Kylie. It’s a blessing (ick, such “Christian speak”!), I mean an honour to be a little part of that journey.
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Hi Erica!
What I really liked about what you wrote, is that you still very much put the onus on YOU to fix things.
“turning my frame of mind from strife, fear, udworry and doubt to peace, praise, hope and gratefulness”
So many born-again Christians I know place too much emphasis onto their God or Jesus and don’t take enough responsibility for their own actions and their lives. From what I remember of my Catholic upbringing, God gave man free will which in my book, means your life is a joint effort between the two of you!
Although I’m an atheist myself, I’m very much for people finding what works for them in their lives, so long as it allows others to do the same. Sounds to me like you’ve got it right!
Thanks for sharing!
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Thanks, Neeky78, for taking the time to write those words of encouragement. I’d still give all the credit to Jesus for helping me make amends, straighten my path and live a better life – God knows I am imperfect in almost every way without that daily commitment to following Him! And I don’t mean that to be falsely humble – I am the worst (controlling, anxious, worrying, self focussed… ick).
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I watched Brides of Christ in my convent Catholic school too! Most enjoyable RE lessons of my schooling life, it was a great series.
Anyway, I think it’s great you have found something to believe in that can help you in all walks of life.
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Lauren91, I have the entire BOC DVD series. I would watch it EVERY SINGLE DAY if I didn’t have other things to do.
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Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. What limited few on life you have! I think you need to broaden your mind.
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Repentance isn’t about saying you are sorry – it’s about turning away from sin and making the decision to do your best to not commit that sin again (although we often fail in that respect). If you say the words just to go through the motions it doesn’t mean anything and God knows that. What counts is your attitude. If your description was correct, then yes it would be hypocritical and worthless, but it’s not that way at all.
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until gays can marry, i won’t respect any christian. end of story.
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With all due respect, it’s not every Christian’s fault. I know plenty who’d be happy for me to marry
Edit: And I just realised, funnily enough, right now it’s an atheist who is stopping it. For the most part. Thanks PM.
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Even though I’m not devout, I still tick the Catholic box, and I’ll dance at your wedding (if I’m invited)!
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You’re the bloody MC, of course you’re invited
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Hi Rick, not wanting to change the point of the post, but, last weekend ,driving my son and a friend from sport(both 10yo boys), we got on the subject of gay marriage ( something came up on the radio, I think). Hubby and I asked them what they thought about gay marriage and they were very espontaneous to state that they believe people should be allowed to marry whoever they wanted.
We were very happy with their opinion and it goes to prove that next gen will have (hopefully) their values sorted out!
I wish you the best wedding day ever!
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I have complete and utter faith in the next gen, I really do. And thank you!
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I have come to the conclusion that as a Christian, there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING that separates my wrong doing of that of a homosexual. There is a verse that says one that lusts has sin on his heart. I believe that is regardless of sexuality.
That being said, I am also finding myself called to equality, and I am called to love everyone. Not a traditionalist attitude, but some insight.
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That’s great way to look at things Rick. You are quite the affable chap.
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Thanks FHB. Affable! I like that … but only when the cig cravings aren’t striking
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I’m a Christian and I believe gays should be allowed to marry. Many other Christians think the same. And many don’t… but many non-Christians hold that opinion as well.
My point of view is that marriage is a contract based on secular law and therefore should be extended to all citizens equally. The notion that it should be banned on religious grounds is ludicrous. As I’ve mentioned earlier on Mamamia, we’d also need to ban no-fault divorce and premarital sex as well (among other things).
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I agree that marriage is a matter of the state, and clearly for any Australian government right now, endorsing gay marriage does not make political sense (unless you are the Greens).
In terms of homosexuality itself, Jesus taught to love your neighbour, and that should extend to everyone regardless of sexual orientation. God, again, also gave us free will, which we have to respect.
Now for the unpopular part. A distinction must be made between the requirements of the believer and unbeliever. Christians are called on to observe the teachings of the Bible. So this is what it means for believers…
With regards to the family, the union of husband and wife, the Bible is quite clear about this being the natural order of things. In Genesis 2, woman is taken out of man and “That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united with his wife and they become one.” Later, in Matthew 19, Jesus adds, “No human being must separate, then, what God has joined together.”
And, my, haven’t some of us made a mess of that?
In the next lines, Jesus adds: “Moses gave you permission to divorce your wives because you are so hard to teach. But it was not like that at the time of creation… This teaching does not apply to everyone, but only to those to whom God has given it. For there are different reasons why men cannot marry: some, because they are born that way; others, because men made them that way; and others do not marry for the sake of the Kingdom of heaven. Let him who can accept this teaching do so.”
Ergo, Christians are called on to accept the teaching.
This is in light of some context given by Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians (6:9): “Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexuals or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves – none of these will possess God’s Kingdom… But you have been purified from sin; you have been dedicated to God; you have been put right with God by the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”
Any Christian who defies God in any of the above ways, will simply not possess the Kingdom of Heaven. Yikes.
It is hard not to frame such debates also in the realm of personal experience: my parents divorced and there have been definite emotional and spiritual repercussions. I come from the odd situation where I lived with my father post-divorce, meaning I didn’t have a strong female influence in the home. That, I believe, was to my detriment, though I can completely understand how and why that transpired and have great empathy and love for my parents and, perhaps, in some ways this quite unique experience has blessed me in other ways?
We are each a product of our times and culture as well as whatever moral bedrocks we choose to build our lives on. For me, personally, I am quite determined to make the most of my marital union for the sake of my own children (should we be blessed to have them), though I know that will be difficult at times: we are bound to occasionally stuff up.
But I have seen how those who choose righteous paths – in every regard – greatly benefit their families, and also their community and society at large. In my observations, nothing quite compares to the love and security to be found in the family unit.
I think, again, that it’s quite important to remember that distinction between the Christian and non-Christian with the view that possessing the Kingdom of God, the favour of God, is the ultimate goal and more than satisfying for the self if the glimpses I’ve been given are anything to go by. And Jesus leads the way into this light.
In the meantime, should we strive to love and understand each other? Yes, absolutely.
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So, do you support gay marriage? yes or no?
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Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Erica.
My comment above spoke very briefly to the notion that non-Christians should be bound by secular laws based on God’s requirements for Christians. I often wonder where it should stop. I am saddened by a legal system that allows no-fault divorce (which has huge, verifiable impacts on children and is deplored by God) and yet disallows gay marriage. It’s a double standard and I don’t see the sense in it.
Having said that, I absolutely agree with how you frame marriage within the Christian context. There are certain elements of God’s design that we simply don’t have the luxury of debating. If we are to call ourselves Christian, we must respect and obey His will.
I personally take marriage extremely seriously. You have probably read Bonhoeffer’s marriage sermon (if not, look it up!) Once married, a couple is bound to use their union to honour God, raise their children and provide an example and service to the community at large.
Marriage is difficult at times, but it’s a wonderful way to practice the selflessness and service that Jesus demonstrated to us.
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I was baptised Catholic but brought up in an almost entirely non-religious family, and I currently attend a Catholic high school. I’ve struggled with my faith ever since I was old enough to understand what being religious meant, mainly because I question everything. One of my earliest memories is asking my scripture teacher in Year 1 how we knew God existed, and having her snap and tell me “we just do!”. However, I always just accepted my faith and called myself a Catholic until, funny enough, I began high school and started to learn more about Catholicism and its teachings. As a 12 year old, I was beginning to form my own values and thoughts on “issues” such as homosexuality and was quickly progressing into quite the little feminist, and to have my developing views completely shut down by my religion was a little confronting. I quickly realised that I didn’t actually believe in the Trinity, Jesus’ resurrection and other key elements of Christian faith, but I had instead just accepted them as the norm and gone on with my life.
I have struggled quite a bit with Catholicism and the church’s teachings on issues. I am a firm believer in equality, and I think that the church’s teachings are actually rather contradictory to what Jesus himself preached. My understanding of Jesus is that he taught people to love unconditionally and work actively against injustice in our society; yet the church continues to discriminate against women and gay people (among other groups). I disagree with a large amount of the church’s teachings, but I think Jesus had the right idea! The blatant hypocrisy of the church also annoys me, especially with their stance on gay marriage, which can essentially be summed down to: “we love the gays, the gays should be treated equally, except they don’t deserve the same rights as other people because, come on, they’re not the same as the rest of us normal straight people”.
I also felt as though the church was trying to guilt me into becoming a Catholic- one of the lines in mass is “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.” The first time I heard that, I remember thinking distinctly, “not worthy? Gosh, who do you think you are, God?!”.
Regardless of my stance on organised religion, I consider myself a deeply spiritual person. I used to call myself an atheist but I have realised that this is far from true as I believe in a higher power of some sort and in an afterlife, though I have no idea about the form or nature of either of those things. I believe in humanity, in good, in morality, in human kindness and I also recognise the presence of evil in the world, though I’m still trying to figure out for myself whether evil is born or made. I believe in love, in friendship, in joy and that our treatment of others is indescribably important.
Many of my Catholic friends have asked me what reason I have to be a good person if I don’t have a god to answer to. To be perfectly honest, I think the answer here is quite obvious: because it’s right. Because I know it’s the right thing, whether or not a god has told me so. As I said, I believe in humanity, and I want to do right by other human beings because it is the right thing to do.
I don’t think I could ever follow an organised religion (no matter how progressive it was!) simply because I don’t think it suits my personality. However, I can definitely see the appeal of following a religion, and I think it’s important to have something that drives who you are and the choices you make (whether that be your religious beliefs, your spirituality or your values).
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I follow your blog Erica and I really enjoy the Christian aspect of your life that you bring to it.
Thank you for writing this – I hope you enjoyed writing it as much as I enjoyed reading it.
I have faith in God and while I don’t attend church – I know there is a higher being present in all our lives and that is something that always comforts me in my darkest moments.
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“But can I make a special point of asking everyone to remain respectful. Whether you agree or not with someone’s deeply held beliefs, it’s vital we respect them…..”
So much for that!
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To protect my husband (a teacher) and to ensure my name is not identified with this, despite my not being ashamed, I am not logged in. If you know me, you’ll recognise me anyway.
I considered not writing this, but as I have now connected with so many of you, I wanted you to hear where I am coming from. Well, the high(& low)lights.
I was raised in one of the strictest Christian denominations I know of. I was rejected for being different by those within my church. I didn’t conform. I got a bad reputation and once I was told I couldn’t lead the song service at my (religion run) school because “it isn’t appropriate for someone with her reputation to represent us in worship”.
I sought help with others, as so many teenagers do, and joined somewhere who accepted the unusual. I became a witch. But when I no longer agreed with their beliefs either, I told them I was going to leave. They sought me out. Not all witches do this (Wicca, on the whole, is very misunderstood), but they were teens, and they were stupid. One night, after sleepless nights, after torment, I put my grandfather’s Bible under my pillow and I slept. I felt comforted.
So I came back. But I don’t think the original religion was ever truly right either.
Now I believe all religions, all belief systems including atheism, including science, all of it, are just part of the one Truth. And whatever aspect of that truth resonates with you, that’s the one you should listen to. I don’t think it really matters which it is.
Respect, love, acceptance. These are the important things.
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Yes, Wiccans/pagans are very misunderstood. We are friends with a Wiccan. When she and her husband renewed their vows (originally made in a church), they had a pagan ceremony, the “handfasting”, conducted by one of their senior priestesses. It was lovely.
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Atheism isn’t a “belief system”. We have no “set of beliefs” that we “follow”. The single defining point of atheism is a rejection of the notion there is a god.
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Isn’t the “rejection of the notion there is a god” a belief? It’s a statement of what you believe to be true. And you live your life accordingly (not going to church, praying to a deity etc). So how is atheism not a belief and not followed?
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Atheism is a “belief”, you are right. Or perhaps it’s the absence of a belief. It’s a disbelief.
What I was saying was that it is inaccurate to call a disbelief in god a “belief system”.
Unlike followers of an ideology or religion, atheists don’t necessarily have any other beliefs or lifestyles or values in common. There is no “system of atheistic values and principles” that we “follow”.
It would be a bit like saying all people who don’t believe in UFOs or aliens or astrology or Scientology or Islam or Judaism or Christianity -or anything, really – are therefore informed by this in every aspect of their day, follow the same guiding principles of life and hold particular values. When in fact all they have in common is not believing in one particular thing.
Am I making sense?
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In the original post I’d suspect it was used simply as a term due to the lack of an appropriate alternative term, I don’t think it’s particularly binding. I mean, when you want to include all religions, science, Athiesism, evolution, etc, in one catch-all term, there just isn’t one really.
Not a better one that I can think of, anyway.
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I love Girl with a Satchel! Such an underrated blog!
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I subscribe to the (non-Christian) belief that god exists within us, as us. I believe not in an all-powerful, literal god, but in god as a universal idea. I like the idea that we are all connected by a collective subconscious (as described by Jung) and I see god as that sense of understanding that enables us to connect with fellow humans on such deep and complex levels. I grapple with faith a lot but I would describe myself as a spiritual agnostic.
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I think I’m like you Amelia…
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Who was Jung or Freud for that matter? What was the Frankfurt School? What is meant by a collective consciousness or unconsciousness? Here I believe all roads lead to India…
Consider this poem by the Indian Mystic Kabir 1440—1518 and perhaps expand your own consciousness in the process.
Between the poles of the conscious and the unconscious,
there has the mind made a swing:
Thereon hang all beings and all worlds,
and that swing never ceases its sway.
Millions of beings are there:
the sun and the moon in their courses are there:
Millions of ages pass, and the swing goes on.
All swing! the sky and the earth and the air and the water;
and the Lord Himself taking form:
And the sight of this has made Kabîr a servant.
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Saint John of the Cross – 15th Century mystic and poet
DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL
On a dark night,
Inflamed by love-longing-
O exquisite risk!-
Undetected I slipped away.
My house, at last, grown still.
Secure in the darkness,
I climbed the secret ladder in disguise-
O exquisite risk!-
Concealed by the darkness.
My house, at last, grown still.
That sweet night: a secret.
Nobody saw me;
I did not see a thing.
No other light, no other guide
Than the one burning in my heart.
This light led the way
More clearly than the risen sun
To where he was waiting for me
-The one I knew so intimately-
In a place where no one could find us.
O night, that guided me!
O night, sweeter than sunrise!
O night, that joined lover with Beloved!
Lover transformed in Beloved !
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Touche!
Rumi 13th-century – Sufi Mystic
We Are As The Flute
We are as the flute, and the music in us is from thee;
we are as the mountain and the echo in us is from thee.
We are as pieces of chess engaged in victory and defeat:
our victory and defeat is from thee,
O thou whose qualities are comely!
Who are we, O Thou soul of our souls,
that we should remain in being beside thee?
We and our existences are really non-existence;
thou art the absolute Being which manifests the perishable.
We all are lions, but lions on a banner:
because of the wind they are rushing
onward from moment to moment.
Their onward rush is visible,
and the wind is unseen:
may that which is unseen not fail from us!
Our wind whereby we are moved and our being are of thy gift;
our whole existence is from thy bringing into being.
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