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gay marriage 300x244 Why straight people who CAN marry must stand up for gay people who can’t.

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When Richard and Mildred Loving got married, they had to choose their location carefully. You see, Richard was white and Mildred was black and in 1962 America, this made their marriage illegal in 16 states including Virginia where they lived. Returning home after their honeymoon, police broke into their bedroom in the middle of the night and arrested them.

Much to the disappointment of authorities, Richard and Mildred weren’t having sex at the time so they couldn’t be charged with the crime of ‘interracial intercourse’. They were still hauled off to jail and charged for being married. The judge ruled their vows null and void, noting that “Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, Malay and red and He placed them on separate continents. The fact that He separated the races shows that He did not intend for the races to mix”. Nice.

Richard and Mildred were forced to move to Washington DC where their marriage was recognised but after a few years they were desperate to visit their family and friends.  Facing arrest if they returned home, two civil rights lawyers took their case to the US Supreme Court where the judges overturned the Interracial Marriage Act in 1967. In their unanimous ruling, they noted that: “The freedom to marry has long been recognised as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men” (and women one would assume). Happy and orderly. Amen to that. The idea of two people being banned from marriage because their skin didn’t match is a preposterous one to consider in 2010.

So how can we blithely accept the same kind of discrimination based on sexuality? How long until we look back at 2010 and say REALLY? What were people THINKING? My guess is it won’t be too long. Because the arguments against same-sex marriage are just too silly.

The most vocal opponents base their arguments on God and the bible. Which is ironic given that marriage certainly didn’t start out as a religious institution. For most of European history, it was simply a business arrangement. Love and God had nothing to do with it, which is why the church was anti-marriage; because it undermined its power base. Today, you may choose to get married in a house of worship but that’s not what makes your vows legally binding. Marriage is a civil institution so how can we allow some taxpayers to do it and not others?

In Committed, Elizabeth Gilbert’s book about marriage where I first read the story of Richard and Mildred Loving (yes, their real names), I also learned that over centuries, the only thing consistent about marriage has been its ability to evolve. Adapting to changing social standards is the only reason it’s still around.  So the idea of same-sex couples ‘eroding’ the institution of marriage is pure poppycock. It’s simply evolving in the same way it has for centuries.

I’ve never understood the ‘eroding’ or ‘devaluing’ argument against gay marriage. If two people want to pledge their love and lifelong commitment in front of their friends, family and even children, what does that have to do with my marriage? How can that possibly be to its detriment? Does Tiger Wood’s definition of marriage affect mine? Hell to the no.

Gilbert also makes the point that as an institution, modern marriage is in pretty bad shape. Fewer people want to get married and those who do, often bin their vows a few years later. So while heterosexuals are walking away from marriage in droves, there’s a steady stream of gay people trying to head the other way. Except their path is blocked by governments and religious leaders because…well, nobody seems to be able to come up with a very good reason beyond ‘just because’.

Julia Gillard is neither married nor religious and I don’t for a moment believe her public opposition to marriage for same sex couples is her privately held view. It just doesn’t seem to fit. The Coalition doesn’t seem to have a policy beyond “Not on our watch, buddy”.

Here’s a fun fact: when the US Supreme Court legalised interracial marriage in 1967, a whopping 70% of Americans strongly disagreed. It happened anyway. So when politicians hide behind public opinion polls, it’s disingenuous. And cowardly. Sometimes you have to do what’s right – not what’s popular – and public opinion inevitably catches up.

Not all same sex couples want to marry. Some don’t believe in it or think it’s unnecessary. Just like straight couples! Surprise! One gay man who has been with his partner more than a decade explains that he doesn’t want to marry but supports same sex couples who do: “I don’t really care why they want to tie the knot, I just want them to have the right to.”

I feel the same way and if you do too, start making some noise. Heterosexual people and married people and single people need to stand up and say, “I’m secure enough in myself or my relationship not to be threatened by the definition of marriage becoming a little more inclusive of other loving couples.”

There, that wasn’t so hard, was it?

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Comments

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358 Comments so far

  1. Speck

    I am a heterosexual female and I have 1 1/2 children with my partner of five years. I’m very happy and very lucky. Will we ever get married? I have no idea but I’m happy either way. We may as well be married, we live together, have children, share all finances and sleep in the same bed, so marriage for us would just be for the sake of having a lovely day. Marriage in this day and age is definitely not a necessity. It is totally acceptable for two people to live together and NOT be married- so isn’t that doing the sanctity of marriage more harm than same-sex couples? Many people who get married these days are doing so simply because they want to. And if two people want to have a lovely day to celebrate their love, shouldn’t that be embraced no matter what their sexuality?
    We’re focusing on a very small part of who those people are as a whole. We’re focusing all of our judgement on their sexual (and partner) preference. Some straight people have some very strange sexual preferences too, but we don’t make that a reason to segregate and discriminate against them, do we?
    I also find it very insulting that the government will ‘recognise’ same sex couples when it comes to living and financial arrangements (Centrelink), for the sake of ensuring someone isn’t getting paid too much, but they refuse to let them marry! Talk about double standards!!!
    I was undecided on the child-raising thing. Then one night I was watching Modern Family and I asked myself- what do I think? Where do I stand on that argument? It didn’t take me long to decide that it’s totally OK, as long as they do a good job. There’s so many people out there who can have kids who shouldn’t. So if a child can be raised in a loving environment, that’s the best place for it to be. It’s not like those parents are going to try to raise it to be gay as well! Homosexual parents will understand better than most what it feels like to be told you are not normal. They’re likely to teach that child some of the best life lessons it can learn. Teasing at school? Kids tease each other all the time about everything. That just comes down to open-minded parenting and when same-sex marriage becomes a common thing, then it won’t be so ‘strange’ anyway.
    Same sex union has just been passed in Queensland. Soon, it will be Australia wide. It’s just a matter of ‘when’, and that is up to us, and how much noise we make to get it happening.

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  2. Kate

    I’m getting married in September and would like to make reference to our support for gay marriage somehow in the ceremony. Does anyone have any ideas or have you heard this in a ceremony?
    Just something simple I guess like ‘One day we hope people of all sexualities can enjoy the right to marry…’

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  3. Kevin

    I think it is sad that it has become trendy and fashionable to embrace the condition of homosexuality with such openness.

    Whilst I would never discriminate against or villify a homosexual, it is a condition that requires psychological support and treatment.

    The problem is that any minority (especially those doing something that they shouldn’t) always want everyone else to join them so they don’t feel so bad.

    At one time it was illegal for homosexuals to display their affection publicly. Now they appear to be hell bent on spreading their lifestyle beginning with kids in schools.

    Homosexuality is not something that you are born with. In most cases it is a learned behaviour or misunderstood adolescent feelings that require correct counselling not taking advantage of impressionable youth.

    Regardless of what the laws allow or don’t allow, it doesn’t change the fact that it is an unnatural sinful behaviour.

    We are now seeing the pendulum swing back towards Christianity from the dark moral cesspool that has been prevalent in recent times. Things will be very different in another 20 years.

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    • Jecoro

      If there was a ‘dislike’ button – I’d be clicking it times 1000.

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    • roserusso

      I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

      Being gay is not a sin.

      Being gay is not a learnt behaviour or misunderstood adolescent feelings.

      Being gay is not a “condition” or an illness. It’s about someone admitting that they love (and are sexually attracted to the same sex) and want a happy and fulfilling life rather than suppressing their natural feelings.

      And being gay is definitely not a fashion statement.

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    • brendanmaclean

      Is that….is that you in there Miranda Devine.

      Funny. I don’t remember my mum and dad teaching me to be gay.

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    • Bek

      Is any of your claims of factual basis or did you just read that on a very narrow leaflet?

      Where is the evidence? Or is science on the “we don’t need that either” list too?

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    • Amy

      Kevin, how is it unnatural? Homosexuality has been seen in over 400 species of animal – animals which don’t have human ability to reason, but merely live on natural instincts. And it is only ‘sinful’ in the eyes of those who believe in god.

      Your comments are offensive, and at this point I can’t even feel angry by them. Simply sad.

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    • Martini

      “the condition of homosexuality”

      “Whilst I would never discriminate against or villify a homosexual, it is a condition that requires psychological support and treatment.”

      I am actually without words to describe how little I think of your statements..

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    • Michelle

      Oh dear

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    • Anonymous

      Kevin, I won’t be as polite as RoseRusso and the other people here.

      You are wrong wrong wrong!!!!!!
      Every single thing you have written above (apart from maybe your name) is completely bigoted, ignorant and your obviously uneducated opinion.

      Do you even know any gay people?

      Ugh, I could go on and on explaining what I mean but I’m afraid it would fall on deaf ears.

      In my opinion religion does far more damage than a person’s sexuality. You are evidence of just that.

      And one more thing, you wrote…. “Whilst I would never discriminate against or villify a homosexual….”

      well, you just did!

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    • mkb27

      “I think it is sad that it has become trendy and fashionable to embrace the condition of homosexuality with such openness. Whilst I would never discriminate against or villify a homosexual” – YOU JUST DID!!!

      Wow, what a hateful, misinformed troll of a post. I love when people like you out yourselves – I only wish I knew enough to identify you in every day life so I could make sure I never accidentally engage with you.

      I thought that christianity was about treating your fellow man with dignity and respect and tolerance – your tirade is full of hate, bigotry and vitriol.

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  4. toradora

    “I’m secure enough in myself or my relationship not to be threatened by the definition of marriage becoming a little more inclusive of other loving couples.”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i watched my brother struggle to gain the courage to come out. i knew he was gay. had done since he was about 13. he knew was gay. and yet he was so afraid of the way people would treat him and everything that he would miss out on from being gay. i’m proud to say he is now happily engaged to a nice boy.

    And now with my own wedding coming up in august and my baby girl next to me on the couch im horrified that he may never be able to know these things.

    the confusion of planning a wedding when you have never seen one. holding your child for the first time. knowing that no matter what happens your partner has sworn to stand by your side forever.
    i want my brother to have this things.
    he deserves these things.
    who the hell are you to say he can’t?

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  5. Haven Maven

    Bravo, Mia. Bravo.

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  6. gene

    Thank you. Just… thank you.

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  7. jaye

    When i grew up Gay meant happy. So if Happy is what Gay actually means why oh why cant gay men and women marry and be HAPPY! I grew up in a house where we did not know any gay people and if i am honest my Dad is and i suppose still is homophobic, What is he scared off?? Are gay people scary like sharks, or big scary black spiders just waiting to drop off onto your head? NO they are people just like everyone else who is straight, black, white, fat thin or as my husband said a ranga. People always find fault in others and I HATE it with a passion. All people should be able to marry the person they love whatever sex they are. I hope one day very soon in Australias future and the rest of the world Gay people will not be shunned, I have a lovely 15 yr old son who had the guts to come out to us recently and I am glad he has as I dont want him having to live a lie and putting on a false show for others. I want my kids and other kids out there to come out and be bloody proud and know that when they meet the guy/gal of their dreams they too can marry like everyone else can and not be frowned upon.

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  8. Annie

    Thank you, Mia, for pointing out what many of us sane people have been thinking for some time- that in the (hopefully near) future, we will look back at our current homosexual marriage laws and think that we were all stark-raving mad and horribly discriminative. I hope our government (and the rest of the population) soon come to this conclusion as well so that we can stop preventing loving couples from marrying if they chose to do so.

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  9. United...????....

    We live in a world that accepts on one side of the page and yet on the other rejects what they have SAID they accept, we live in a world wide web of hypocrecy (bad spelling, apologies) and lies and it is something that I can see is and will be the demise of man kind and the universe….
    I grew up in a hetrosexual household, not ever, well as far as I knew having made friendship or knowing of anyone that was gay of either sex, but my parents always taught both my brother and myself to accept people for who they are and not to pass judgement on others because they may be different to who we are as human being. Respect to both my brother and I is still to this day such a strong part of how we lead our lives and who we are, it is a greater part of our morals and values. I believe that in this life if two human beings can find the love, respect and admiration for one another and they happen to be of the same sex, then who in the hell are we to take away from them there write to become husband and husband, or wife and wife????? Who do these people think they are that feel as though they are a higher being that allows them to take on this “power” that they feel they have to rob two people of right that is and should be there’s. I grew up feeling very confused about my feelings toward both men and women. I have had encounters with womne, but I prefer to be in relationships with men, I have a wonderful man in my life, we have been together for two years and he knows about my likings for females as well, but preference of males, I am to afraid to delve into my feelings and thoughts, because I am afraid of what may surface. I am not sure of that makes me bisexual or not, but if that is the case and I one day find a great love with another women I hope that someone doesn’t take away from me what should be allowed, love is love and there are no boundaries for it….

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  10. Ms Twitchy

    Speaking of gay parents I just read in the paper today that Neil Patrick Harris (loved his guest spot on Glee) is expecting boy/girl twins via surrogate with his long term partner, David Burtka….am I the last person to know that Doogie Howser is gay? ….Huh. Well there you go!

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    • Ms Twitchy

      I listen to JOY FM (Melb) in the car and as you would imagine, they do cover these topics extensively. There are interviews, lobby groups plus support and information groups for gay parents. Even one for gay dads. I think it’s great there is so much action taking place in the community. I haven’t checked, but no doubt it’s covered on their website also, if you’re interested.

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  11. Tim

    Im gay. and it sickens me to think that someone out there thinks that low of me to say i cannot marry someone. What gives them the right to deny me of my freedom, what gives them the right to say that im not ‘Normal’ Yes, it’s a different kind of love and marrige but why should that matter. as corny as this sounds, Love is love. And i will fight until the day i die over this subject because i beleive that it is so unfair and so unhuman of people to think this. It’s 2010, Julia Gillard & Tony abbot let me get married, let everyone in the gay community get married, you’d sure get alot more votes.

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    • Claudia

      You’re so right there Tim, and I hope it’s a comfort to you that SO, SO many people feel the same as you do, heterosexual or otherwise.

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    • United...????....

      I makes me so mad that groups and government feel as though they have the write to label what is “normal” or not, truly who knows what is normal, everyones version of it is different, so really there can not be any one version of it. Is the love that you have for your current partner, if you have one, or a partner in your future really any different to that of the love that yur parents have for one another or your grandparents or you straight partners, really, it just isn’t fair that certain so called educated people are allowed to make such personal decsions for people. Tim, I will fight along side with you in pro for gay marriage, we are all equal as humans and should be treated accordingly….

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      • Jill K

        Maybe instead of having a plebiscite on the Carbon Tax we should have one on gay marriage…I am still optimistic enough about human nature to think that it would be supported by the majoriy if people. My over-riding thought about this subject is “why not?”. If people want to make promises to love and care for someone on the record then isn’t that a good thong? Should we not be encouraging the commitment and public acknowledgment of mutual support etc? I just don’t understand why so many people are up in arms about it? I am still shocked that not so long ago women, aboriginal people and black people weren’t allowed to vote. The great article above mentioning the Lovelys (cute name) puts this whole debate sharply into focus. I think I am starting to ramble now…you get my point I think.

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  12. Claudia

    Unnatural? Not normal? Says WHO???

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  13. Claudia

    Another great piece on gay marriage:

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2986220.htm

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  14. Emma

    who are you to say its unnatural? perhaps in your mind it is, but not for whose who are gay.

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  15. Kate

    TOTALLY AGREE Mia.

    How do we make noise when every time we ask about it – the politicians just evade the question?

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  16. Holly

    You’re missing the point- she doesn’t think it is unnatural or abnormal. Read the article!

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  17. Anais

    The day where we laugh and CANNOT BELIEVE THAT GAY MARRIAGE WASN’T LEGAL will come very soon – thank goodness!! In 2010 it is an ABSOLUTE DISGRACE that we are even having this conversation….but then again, why am I surprised!? There are THAT MANY ignorant, racist, narrow-minded, silly people in this world, of course we are still fighting battles over BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS – what a joke!

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  18. NicoleC

    all people should have the right to choose…
    choose when, where and who they want to be LEGALLY married to….

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  19. hannah

    if you don’t like gay marriages.. Don’t have one :-) I think it’s that simple.

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  20. Holly

    I can’t believe some of the negative comments!

    STOP and LOOK at what the issue is- ALL people should have the RIGHT to marry.

    End of story.

    I’m so disappointed that some people think otherwise, it’s nothing short of cruel.

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    • KatInEurope

      If the world needs anything right now, it is more love and not more hate.

      Plus I like cake.

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  21. anita

    sorry mia, marriage by defintion is between a man and a woman. That is respect for the institution of marriage. Same sex relationships are not the problem. The implications of gay marriage also mean that the couple can then adopt children as a legal right. Does a child have the right to both a male and female parent?

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    • Holly

      No- children have the right to loving parents.
      Gender doesn’t come into it!

      Please don’t go down that path, it’s disrespectful to all those who have same-sex parent, and very hurtful.

      It’s like saying children have a right to super healthy parents, yet so maybe parents are not, and teach their children some unhealthy eating habits. Do you think those people make bad parents? Probably not, as long as the child is loved!

      Your argument has no grounding!

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      • Mr Evidence

        you should read
        Out From Under: The Impact of Homosexual Parenting by Dawn Stefanowicz

        Dawn grew up with two same sex parents and knows the “scene” intimately and over a very long period.

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        • Holly

          I also grew up in the ‘scene’…and know others who have also. I’m talking from experience and don’t need to read what someone else has written….
          No doubt there are negative experiences, as there are among children of heterosexual couples!

          Why is it a ‘scene’ anyway? These are peoples lives you’re talking about here.

          Parenting has nothing to do with gender- all people have different parenting styles, whether they are male or female. Just like in male/female parents, same sex couples take on different roles and approaches to deal with the good and the bad.

          Do you honestly think that same-sex parents are any different? What about children of single parents, children of parents who spend a lot of time away from home, children who grow up with adopted families, children who grow up with step-parents and blended families- are they also worse off because their ‘different’ upbringing? In the case of single parents they are also raising children dominated by one gender- are they also worse off?

          Think about what you are saying.

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        • Sparky

          Have you ever read any books written by children of abusive, or even merely below-par heterosexual parents? I don’t think dysfunction is about gender.

          Why are you so angry, Mr Evidence? Is this personal for you?

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        • Rose

          The “scene” – I laughed at that word!

          Raising children in a loving environment is the most important thing.

          There are PLENTY of screwed up heterosexual parents in this world… and to think that some of them think that they are somehow superior to homosexual parents is unbelievable.

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          • Flotsam

            Using a word like “scene” reminds me of the dad in “Modern Family” – trying to be cool but not.

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    • Ms Twitchy

      I am a heterosexual married woman, with 2 kids, a house, a dog and a cat. My personal situation, a choice that I was fortunate enough to have freely available to me, is not in any way threatened or demeaned by the prospect of being opened to same sex couples. Why on Earth should it?

      ‘Respect for the institution of marriage’, is to undertake a serious life commitment as a couple, including legally recognised status, with the person you love so much you wish to spend the rest of your life with them exclusively, living together, sharing financial and home responsibilities, with or without children (or pets), caring for one another’s well being, growing old together, and being prepared to do some very hard work to ensure it’s longevity. All children (and many will NOT be adopted, but ARE likely to have blended and/or extended family to include both sexes), have the right to be loved and cared for by their devoted parents, who should also be able to be recognised as the legal parents if that is what they desire. Regardless of gender.

      In any case, marriage is indeed an evolving institution. In our society’s definition of marriage, both partners are of equal status. How many of us are prepared to vow to *obey* these days??

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    • Shannon

      You’re right, people have a right to a male and a female parents.

      For that reason, we should overlook domestic violence/child abuse in the interests of maintaining what a great influence that parent would be on the child’s life.

      We should force women and men to be in a relationship after having a one-night-stand resulting in pregnancy, in the interests of the child, thus leaving both parents unhappy and the child in the centre of a toxic relationship.

      Widows and widowers should find a replacement partner right away, lest their child be adversely affected by the lack of that gendered parent.

      Or, alternatively, people could do what they do now…give that children positive influences from elsewhere in their lives, by having male/female friends, uncles, aunts, grandparents…yeah, that seems like a good idea, I guess that’s why people in those situation have been doing it.

      Hold on a second…same-sex couples could do that too! Mind-blowing! =)

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      • Amy

        I think I love you.

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  22. KatInEurope

    I live in a country where we’ve had same-sex partnerships for quite some time.

    I am not currently swimming in brimstone not have locusts descended. No seas of fire either. Or exceptionally large amounts of toads. Cows and sheep are still visible in the fields and sheds, munching away.

    We’ve had a pretty shitty summer, but I don’t think that’s linked.
    But then again…

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    • Kris2040

      The sky has fallen though, right, Kat??

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      • KatInEurope

        I can’t tell – damn cloud cover.

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        • Sparky

          Must be the wrath of God, sending the clouds to “cloud” your vision like that…

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  23. Mrs G

    ‘Marriage’ used to be a religious notion.

    People could only get married in a church. Then the State got involved and said that if the State was to be secular, then marriage would be secular as well as religious and people could get married in either a church by a minister or in another non-religious place by a civil celebrant.

    It’s curious that no one had a problem with the word “marriage” being used to describe couples married outside of a church, even though the word has a religious source.

    Consequently, it just seems logical that gay people ought to have the option of a secular marriage open to them. If churches won’t marry them then that is one thing, but the State has no busines denying them the right to marry. It’s dirty discrimination and I for one am sick of it.

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    • Shannon

      “Marriage” from the French “mariage”, derived from the verb “marier”.

      After consulting my trusty Robert Micro, I got the following definitions:

      Mariage: Union légitime de deux personnes, dans les conditions prévues par la loi.

      Translation (if you take my word for it): Legitimate union of two people under the conditions set out by law.

      Marier (to marry): Unir deux personnes en célébrant le mariage.

      Translation: To unite two people by marriage.

      In each definition, I noted a lacking of reference to “man” and “woman”. It simply said “two people”.

      I read those definitions and smiled – but they are, unfortunately, not the standard definitions.

      Now, I will note that (at the moment) same-sex marriage is not legal in France. However, I would love if we could all adopt those definitions offered by LeRobert! One dictionary at a time…one Marriage Act at a time…

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  24. Kris2040

    So who else is voting Geoff the plumber asking Mr Rabbit about his son’s right to marry on Q and A last night Father of the Year?? What a lovely man.

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    • Mia

      How fab was he? And what a moving moment……

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      • Kris2040

        And Twitter went absolutely NUTS with support for him too.

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    • Jenni Maundrell

      What was the response?

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      • Kris2040

        Er um ah um I have friends who are gay who will tell you that I have respect for their relationships.

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        • Jenni Maundrell

          Er um ah um – why does that not surprise me? They’re all so full of political spin and know what they “should” say, but no one can um and ah quite like TA! Someone on a facebook group I’m a member of commented that they had been thinking of playing a drinking game – take a shot every time he says um or ah, but didn’t feel like having their stomach pumped on a Monday night.

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          • Kris2040

            Yep, that was on twitter last night – end of the comment was see you in the ICU.

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        • tastebud

          I’m yet to watch Q&A (taped it) but it doesn’t surprise me TA came up with “Ahhh well I know a gay” or “I have a friend who is a gay” or something equally cringe-worthy! He is so embarrassing!

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          • Kris2040

            Oh wait till you see it – I just watched it again on youtube and you can just see him internally go “Oooohhhh fuuuuuuuuuuuuck” when he brings up his gay son and his right to get married.

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    • Anonymous

      he was just so lovely. that was question of the night for sure! what did you think of TA. i thought he was really nervous to begin and then relaxed. although i didn’t agree with anything he said of course!!

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      • rainbow

        oops that was me

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    • GraceB

      Oh yes! That was a marvellous moment. It’s all good and well for politicians to talk, well um and ah, about their party’s stance on this and try to keep the ‘policy’ seperate to the personal etc bit it’s really something to have them have to face up to a ‘real person’ on this issue. Hopefully the moment wasn’t lost on Tony…Very wishful hoping I know

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      • Kris2040

        Yes, I don’t think Mr Rabbit was expecting him to stick to him so hard after he gave his history as a Vietnam Vet, tradie and small business owner and Liberal voter. Seriously, Twitter went absolutely apeshit with support for him. It was all quiet and then BAM! Wonderful stuff. :)

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        • rainbow

          did anyone else think it was weird the way he sort of patted TJ’s hand? or was that just me??

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          • Kris2040

            Yeah I rewatched it – very weird. It was like “see, I’m totes comfortable with, like, blokes touching and shit.” Strange.

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    • Evey Mercedes

      Just watched it on YouTube. Awesome. “When are you going to get over your fear and ignorance of gay people?” I think Tony Abbott was floored too.

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    • Shannon

      I find it weird that people are commenting here on TA’s refusal to go with same-sex marriage, but overlooking the fact that JG doesn’t support it either. At least TA is honest about why he believes what he does, and that’s a good start. I’m hopeful that Geoff the plumber was an eye-opener for him.

      But as it stands, both Labor and LNP are answering “No” to the gay-marriage question…makes them as bad as each other. The criticism shouldn’t be exclusively aimed at TA.

      I think he does seem to respect same-sex relationships, he just has a problem with letting them be “married”. Which I don’t agree with. But it’s for that very reason that in France, they have a Pacte Civile de Solidarité (essentially a contract to be in a legally recognised monogamous relationship) instead of “mariage” for same-sex couples. It seems to be that some people just have a problem with using the term “married” for same-sex couples =S

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      • Sue

        Thank you Shannon ..I was wondering why that hadn’t been mentioned. JG would not have been able to give the man an answer he was happy with either. Let’s be fair on that one.

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  25. Hell Yeah!

    Go Mia! Absolutely, I am straight and although I am in a long term relationship not married – BUT I totally support the right of straight and gay couples to publically pledge their love and get married. I just don’t see why they can’t.

    As Mia said, if you believe it is right let’s start making some noise and opening up more dialogue about this wherever you might have the avenue to make your voice heard.

    1967 was a momentous year by the sound of it – coincidentally the same year that indigenous Australians were finally made citizens of their own land. Who can believe that either?

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    • Mr Evidence

      I saw a lot of holes in the article.

      To use Mias word, how can we blithely accept the spin doctors promoting that same sex marriage is no problem without testing that they arguments put forward to see if they hold any water at all?

      Firstly we need to define some words, such as Discrimination which is required under certain circumstances – there was a legal case to support discrimination against homosexuals from donating blood and we all discriminate to not let 15 year old kids drive. Funny how the strongest language many say is tisk tisk to the fact 15 year olds have sex at that age and the only answer to this problem is to hand them a condom? Discrimination has become one of those buzz-words that is “indiscriminately” linked with injustice. It seems we have forgotten that there is such a thing as just discrimination. We “discriminate” – that is, we distinguish and discern by recognizing differences – all the time, and must do so. Discrimination is unjust when the difference recognized has no bearing on the matter at hand. Discrimination is just – and required – when the difference matters.

      When people use the stale black/white argument they miss the whole point. Interracial marriage AFFIRMS the definition of Marriage whereas same sex unions REDEFINES marriage.

      The idea of same sex marriage eroding the institution of marriage is a valid one. What benefits will such a change in law bring to the institution of marriage? None. What will we see more of – infidelity and divorce. What chance have I of seeing either a pig fly or a homosexual program promoting waiting for the right one? What is worse is the fact that the Greens want to remove the “discriminating words of husband and wife” from our vocabulary. Faced with the fact that gay male relationships are in fact promiscuous, gay writers have no choice but to promote the message that monogamy is not necessary.

      Of course, to win us over they hope to point out what is wrong with the current stats on marriage. Who is at fault here? The church? No they have pre marriage courses and often will refuse to marry a couple if they haven’t been on a pre marriage course. Can someone name a government initiative where they are trying to protect marriage and give single people the best information prior to entering in the most important phase of their life? Didn’t think so.

      Well what is homosexuality anyway?
      We were all born heterosexual and our body complements the opposite sex. This is a fact. To the best of my knowledge, in a sexual relationship between two men, one of them tends to act as the “woman” while the other acts as the “man.” In homosexual sex, the “body parts don’t fit.” Therefore sex must be “individually enjoyed rather than mutually experienced” (p. 214) by a technique of “my turn – your turn” (p.214) and “you do me, I do you.” (Masters and Johnson, 1979). Where orgasmic episodes are experienced separately, considerable discussion is required for their negotiation. Masters, W., and Johnson, V. (1979). Homosexuality in Perspective. Boston, MA: Little, Brown. So the freedom to marry a partner of the same sex cannot change the fact that “something’s not working.”

      The term homosexual is simply a description of a psychological condition, a description of a sexual preference. A persons homosexuality is an attempt to repair an emotional need. It is a symptomatic representation of what a person is striving to find. We can look to an authority such as Freud for this kind of belief.

      How many people know that Doctor Robert Spitzer, who was instrumental in getting the condition of homosexuality removed from the list of mental disorders, changed his mind some years later.

      “Being queer means pushing the parameters of sex and family, and in the process, transforming the very fabric of society.”
      –National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Policy director,
      Paul Ettelbrick (Kurtz, 2003)

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      • MrsT

        Look, I’m sorry, but gay marriage causing more infidelity and divorce? Gay male relationships are promiscuous? Gay sex can’t be mutually experienced? Homosexuality is a mental disorder? I cannot support that kind of thinking. It is based on inaccurate stereotypes and fear-mongering. I appreciate the fact you are attempting to back up some of your claims with research, but quoting research from a group who ran programs to ‘convert’ homosexuals to heterosexuality can hardly be seen as unbiased.

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        • Mr Evidence

          Homosexuality is a mental disorder? I cannot support that kind of thinking. Take it up with Dr Spitzer, who at one stage didn’t think so either until he was approached by people with same sex attraction who hated feeling that way and wanted to be normal again. His subsequent research confirmed he got it wrong.

          Quoting from sources which are pro homosexual can hardly be seen as unbaised. Touche.

          Lets start with the Galaxy poll funded by homosexuals. Would you stand by a poll funded by lets say a Christian group if it came up with a different result? I don’t think so. Of course, it all comes down to the questions you ask doesn’t it.

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          • Kris2040

            Maybe the people who approached Dr Spitzer were uncomfortable with their feelings because they were made to feel that way, rather than the people around them just accepting them for their natural differences they way they were?

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      • yos

        WOW! I’ve never heard things put quite that way. Hmmm, interesting.

        I take your point about the use of the term discrimination – we would discriminate if a father wanted to marry his daughter or similar. That is not what this is about. Whatever social conventions have been enforced througout the years (centuries even), homosexuality has always had a presence in the world.

        I feel strongly that whatever analysis you want to offer as to the mindset of people who are same-sex oriented, you are missing a very important point. These are just people like you and I and all I want and all they want is to have their union recognised as a marriage. People say that marriages are supposed to produce children, but how many single parents or de facto couples with kids are around? I would wager that the divorce rate among same-sex marriages would not exceed the divorce rate for straight people. I would also wager that a child raised by a gay couple would be no worse off than a child raised by a straight couple.

        I also don’t think infidelity would be a factor any more than it is in any other relationship. In the gay community there are monogamous couples as well as couples with open relationships, just like in the straight community.

        You cannot stop someone pursuing that which makes them the most happy and as long as that pursuit is not harming anyone, I dont see how you can deny people their rights.

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        • Mr Evidence

          There are words for that – hypocrit or bigot come to mind!

          “I take your point about the use of the term discrimination – we would discriminate if a father wanted to marry his daughter or similar. That is not what this is about.”

          Of course that is what it is about.

          On what basis do you discriminate why a father can not marry his daughter? Now what arguments can we put forward? Eg: at one time we wouldn’t let blacks marry whites.

          Of course, you must understand how a person became homosexual in the first place. They were not born that way!

          So to change a law simply because of some people acted on abnormal feelings (strong same sex attraction) as a result on how they were raised as children is not a good way to govern in my opinion.

          What is worse is the obvious result that a two men marry then the next day they divorce and one of the men marries a woman. How absurd a road you are willing to go down.

          Am I meant to ignore teaching my kids the truth as to the origins of homosexuality. At the same time I will ask my children to inform their classmates of current research which is uncomfortable to any pro homosexual teacher?

          Is this harming anyone by telling them the truth?

          Some think marriage is a contract. It couldn’t be further from the truth. Going to a protitute is a contractual arrangement. Marriage is giving your whole self. Pre nups is modern societies blurring of the lines and indicates those people should not have got marrried in the first place.

          If I were to replace the word marriage with synergy, you may get the idea.

          Bringing together two same items together you get the number two.

          Marriage value or synergy implies that there is potential for something greater than the sum of the parts. Didn’t you learn that concept in Economics 101?

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          • Kris2040

            What is the truth about the origins of homosexuality, Mr Evidence?

            Signed,

            Captain Obvious

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            • Mr Evidence

              Although one should be careful in talking in absolutes but after almost thirty years working almost exclusively with homosexual men, having treated thousands upon thousands of men, Dr Nicolosi states it is the same story over and over again – distant detached critical father, over involved intrusive mother, temperamentally sensitive introverted boy.

              Does 100% of the clients who had these situations mean anything to you. What better stat can you get than 100%?

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          • yos

            You like totally blow my mind! Why are you such a hater?

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            • Mr Evidence

              Who is a hater?
              Actually what I do hate is someone trying to push their own agenda down my throat!
              For the record, I have been on holiday numerous times with homosexuals, they are in my family and my work place, and I love and respect them all as people.

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        • anita

          yes you can stop someone pursuing that which makes them most happy. I can’t go into the male toilets just because it makes me happy. I don’t consider that discrimination. Saying that marriage is between a man and a woman is not discrimination.

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          • Aquila

            Anita, I completely support your right to go into male toilets!

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      • Carolyn

        What a load of shit.

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        • Rose

          Couldn’t have put it better myself Carolyn!

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          • anonymous

            Why? Because Mr Evidence actually provides back-up for his statements instead of getting all hysterical about it and telling others that they’re haters and ignorant and arrogant for having a different opinion to theirs?

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            • Rose

              No. Because it is discrimination for the Government to decide who should and should not get married. Love is love.

              I can’t understand why people think it’s OK to tell people what to do when it comes to their sexual preferences.

              To compare gay people being allowed to get married to an incest relationship is just ridiculous and insulting!

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      • Kittell

        I find it funny how you call yourself Mr. Evidence yet have provided none.. and of what may I ask?

        What are you afraid of?

        How does a homosexual couple seeking to be recognised and practice the right to a civil union effect you? Where’s your evidence?

        Since when is marriage a definition of how you physically have sex? Where’s your evidence? (sorry, the bible isn’t ‘evidence’)

        Gay male relationships are ‘in fact’ promiscuous? Where’s your evidence? and please, show how they’re more promiscuous than heterosexuals, just for arguments sake.

        We’ll see more infidelity or divorce, where’s your evidence? and again, compare to heterosexuals for good measure.

        It is a symptomatic representation of what a person is striving to find? Where’s your evidence? I’m sorry but I have plenty of homosexual friends who have told me, they’ve known since CHILDHOOD they were ‘different’ and it’s not until puberty they realise that difference is homosexuality. What on earth is it that a CHILD could be ‘striving to find’

        You have no argument, just a load of outdated poppycock, and like the rest of your kind you leave more questions than answers

        … or evidence!

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        • Mr Evidence

          “How does a homosexual couple seeking to be recognised and practice the right to a civil union effect you?”

          It affects me in how I understand what a word means and what it always has meant. How can I in good conscience let a political movement (gays even though that word in so inappropriate) dictate to me what a word should mean. When I think that they want to make the words husband and wife discriminatory this becomes even more absurd. When someone tries to brainwash me to even consider something that is unnatural should be considered normal, it does affect me.

          “It is a symptomatic representation of what a person is striving to find? Where’s your evidence?”
          Just speak to the professional psychologists who have successfully treated thousands upon thousands of people with same sex attraction.

          Dr Joseph Nicolosi is one source – the same person who put the American Psychologist Association in their place by getting them to remove the lies that there was such a thing as a gay gene. Talk about a so called professional organization having egg on their face. He has loads of peer reviewed articles in professional journals which should make for some good reading.

          He also highlight the fact that the APA is more political than professional – seeing they would only admit to the task force pro homosexuals and not any other professional who had a contrary view to theirs. What a joke they have become.

          I am glad that the issue of homosexuality is getting publicity because it allows everyone to research such a field and I find out some amazing facts such as what Kirk and Masden planned and achieved back in the late 80’s. How gullible some were to swallow what they dished up.

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          • Alice

            So we need to prevent people who are in love from getting married because it might mean that a word means something different to your previous understanding of it???

            Do you feel the same about the word “cool” meaning “fantastic/fashionable” as well as “not warm” in contemporary culture?

            I think you need to be less easily phased. And if you’re going to feel entitled to dictate what other people can do in their personal lives, you need a MUCH stronger argument than that you will need to buy a new dictionary.

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            • Mr Evidence

              Are you saying that homosexuals don’t have to be attracted to those of the same sex?
              That is what the word means doesn’t it – until of course a group of people petition the public to fight for the right to be homosexual even though they have not the slightest attraction to those of the same sex as them.

              BTW, can you give me a reason why a father should not marry his son or daughter, if the Marriage Act was amended to suit homosexuals?

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          • Kittell

            WHAT?! it affects you in how you understand what a word means?!

            you certainly like defining your words don’t you

            Ridiculous.

            it’s unfortunate the world isn’t in Black and White for you, good luck with whatever it is you’re trying to achieve.

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      • Talia Cain

        Wait a minute, you can CHOOSE to be a homosexual?? Well sign me up, because I’m fairly sick of men these days. How does this happen? What do I have to do? Let me know Mr Evidence, because you seem to have all the answers!

        Warm regards,
        Ms Jester Lesbain.

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      • Rainbow

        Mr Evidence you are WRONG. Please look at the American Psychiatric Association website and read what it has to say about Reparative or Conversion Therapies relating to homosexuality.

        Shall I paraphrase for you:
        “The APA affirms its 1973 position that homosexuality is not a diagnosable disorder”.

        “Efforts to repathologize homosexuality by claiming that it can be cured are often guided not by rigorous scientific or psychiatric research, but by religious and political forces opposed to full civil rights for gay men and lesbians”.

        Before you place comments on public forums could you please be informed with the correct information – from reputable sources. Using tainted information from bogey websites does not constitute good and fair research. It is widely known that Dr Spitzer actively recruited “self proclaimed ex-gay” participants for his study through organisations like Exodus and NARTH. Dr Spitzer does not agree with the claim that people can change from gay to straight. Nor is he pleased with the way his research is being used or manipulated to prove “conversion”.

        Now to paraphrase the Oracle of knowledge when it comes to all things gay, Lady Gaga ;)
        “God bless Australia……and God bless the gays”.

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  26. Matt

    When I read this, I decided to scribble “Mia Freedman” on my ballot paper so I could vote for her for PM. (Not that I could vote anyway, as I’m not a citizen, but I digress.)

    At the end of the day, there is no logical argument for gay marriage being illegal. There are only religious and bigoted arguments, both of which are fundamentally illogical.

    It will happen soon enough though; all the anti-gay types are just an incredibly vocal minority.

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  27. Peanut

    I think any responsible adults who really love each other and want to make that commitment should be allowed to! It seems such an obvious statement. It’s absolutely the definition of: ‘not my business’. It has nothing to do with me at all!
    I love my husband so much, and I am so happy to be married to him. Why shouldn’t other people have that right? Finding love and a partner to share your life with is such a blessing, anyone who does this should be able to shout it from the roof tops, and less romantically, have it legally recognised. We’re all just people, and to love and be loved is one of the greatest gifts humanity can give.
    I sound like a bit of a hippy, but this is just very close to my heart. I think as people, we should take care of each other, and celebrate love, and show caring and sensitivity. It applies to most of the major issues. Same sex marriage should be legal, because it’s a human right. We should treat refugees sensitively and offer them protection for the same reason. We should take care of the sick and elderly with well-funded public healthcare. We all need to look out for each other in this world.

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  28. Marjorie Sth Australia

    Wonderful article. It is about time that our Government stopped discrimination against same sex marriage. If we as heterosexuals have the right to marry then why not same sex couples; we should be glad that they wish to commit to each other and have their love endorsed. Our daughter and her partner have to travel all the way to Washington DC to marry – shame on politicians in Australia, after all this is not the dark ages but the 21st century!

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  29. Rose Russo

    Great article Mia. I am so happy that you are taking a stand on this issue, as it is an issue very close to my heart.

    For the past five years my partner and I like so many others would love to see the Marriage Act overturned, as discrimination has no part to play in society. I am so happy to see that so many Australians also feel this way. I believe that if we all keep making noise we will eventually get there.

    Even though my partner and I split up a few months ago – her not wanting to have children in a same-sex relationship, and me always wanting to be a mother regardless of what gendered relationship I am in, we both feel very strongly about gay marriage.

    We all have the right to love and be loved by whoever we choose. Why would a government deny us that right? I really wish one of our leaders would take a stand on this – I believe it could have been an election winning strategy.

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  30. Lauren

    Great article, an interesting comparison to interracial marriages too. When I got married in April (interracial marriage by the way) I didn’t want the celebrant to read ‘marriage is only between a man and woman’ as I don’t believe that. However she had to read it out to make the marriage legal. Hope that will change very soon.

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  31. AB

    Fabulous story, Mia.
    I found myself nodding along with everything you were saying!

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  32. MiddleC

    Nope, not hard at all. I agree with you completely. But with neither of the major parties willing to make the changes, it seems our opinions don’t count.

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  33. Hayls

    As a single heterosexual female, I was annoyed the other day (but not really surprised) that my own mother who believes strongly that I should get married (need a boyfriend first Mum!), was completely against the idea of gay marriage. Part of her reasoning is her strong Christian beliefs but I still think its a little hypocritical and its people like her which stop the progess of the nation.

    I personally am not a huge fan of the whole marriage idea AT ALL, hetero or same sex, but I don’t think that its up to the government to have a say on whether people can get married or not. I mean isn’t it meant to be about love and commitment? Should we start wearing business suits to weddings instead of long flowing white dresses representing romantic ideals??

    As long as there is no negative connotations such as children or animals involved let people marry whoever they want, whether it be man, woman or a blender! How does it affect anyone else really?

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    • Jenni Maundrell

      hehehe, I loved that last part. Just imagining the damage that, particularly a man, could self-inflict by marrying a blender…

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  34. Jane

    I think you should run for PM…. Amazing, inspiring article!

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  35. Rob in NZ

    Mia,

    I was sent this article by my sister-in-law in Sydney and it’s incredibly well written and very, very applicable to my situation. Long story short, I’ve been with my man Ben for over 5 years now and here in NZ, we are about to have this debate in the legal sphere, not to mention go down the incredible but very complex surrogacy route…

    This topic, as you say, is such a no-brainer it’s becoming boring – imagine being part of the trailblazing bunch of forward-thinkers and human rights upholders in 2010 like the Lovings…?

    I stumbled upon something today. People like this woman and her scared, backward and totally bigoted church mates at http://www.truetolerance.org have my utmost sympathy…

    Keep making noise – we’re listening and thanks for the uplift.

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  36. Brissie Mum

    Same sex marriages is not about religion it is about basic human rights. I wish both parties would stop crapping on about the damn boat people and what they are going to do to a handful of people smugglers and start talking about the bigger issues that will directly impact a majority.
    same sex marriage is just too dicey a issue to raise in a very conservative campaign by both parties. shame though.

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  37. Trish

    Brilliant article Mia!
    It’s only a matter of time before same sex marriage is made legal and I really don’t know what the big bloody deal is. Why should two people that are in love not be allowed to get married… its archaic and besides why should we be the only ones to know the misery :)

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  38. Rose

    This is one of my favourite columns Mia. I’m so happy to see someone in the public eye making some noise about this as it is discrimination and the marriage act should be changed.

    I too feel very passionately about this and look forward to seeing how this will be debated in the coming months. I am disappointed that both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott have refused to take a stand on this, as I believe it could be an election winning strategy.

    I believe that everyone should have the equal opportunity to love each other and be loved by whoever they choose. It baffles me that we are still debating this issue in this day and age. Are we really still a homophobic nation? Perhaps we are. Gay people deserve the same rights as straight people and until our nation takes a stand on this issue, it will be seen by the general public to be OK to treat gay people as second class citizens, and with no respect.

    On another note… received your first book ‘The New Black’ in the mail today… looking forward to reading it after reading Mamamia earlier this year ;)

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  39. kate

    I loved this article Mia, I have been raised in a christian family, although I no longer go to church I have often raised this topic with my parents. I thought that they would be opposed but they made it quite clear that…

    love knows no boundaries, no distance or fear! (i think they may still have some 70′s spirit in them)

    at the end of the day, no matter what your belief love and treat everyone as you wish to be treated, as free loving as it sounds- LOVE AND RESPECT ONE ANOTHER WHOLEHEARTEDLY!

    I am offended to find ‘christianity’ slandered in discussions of this topic. I know there are some who use this as their defence, i know that the christians I know welcome all with open arms! and thats the kind of god I believe in, one who wants all his people to be happy! x

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    • Hell Yeah!

      Jesus was a tearaway spirit back in biblical times and he loved hanging out with the minorities (think Mary Magdalene etc). I am quite sure that if J.C were around in human form today he would support gay marriage too.

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  40. Justine

    Thanks for your article Mia. I am a Marriage Celebrant and I believe that love is something that transcends race and gender. Love is well…Love. The right to be legally married in Australia should be available regardless of the couple’s sexuality. I have conducted ‘same sex commitment ceremonies’ and the love and adoration that these couples feel for one another is no less committed, intense and magical, than any straight couple I have worked with. It is time for Australians to lobby our Members of Parliament to change the Marriage Act which has a very tight definition of what marriage is in our country. Lets get back to basics. It’s about love.

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  41. CanberraMel

    I thought this was your best written article EVER, Mia, and I’ve been reading you every day for two years.

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    • Rose

      When you feel passionate enough about an issue, it often brings out the best in you.

      My favourite too!

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  42. Anita

    Same sex marriages are not hurting anyone.
    I believe there is no legitimate reason why they should not be legal.

    Even Tony Abbott quoted on Fox FM with Kyle and Jackie O regarding Same Sex Marriages:
    “I’m all in favour of ‘live and let live’ so to speak….There are lots of great relationships that people have and lets encourage them”
    Stating he accepts same sex relationships, just not the institution of marriage between them.

    Refer to the link here:
    http://www.fox.com.au/entertainment/the_dirt//blog/tony-abbott-definitely-against-gay-marriage/20100802-9euj.html

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    • Kate

      I don’t like that attitude that Abbott (and others) have though, they’re all cool with it until “these people” actually asked to be treated equally. That’s when a persons true colours show.

      There’s still the attitude that a heterosexual couple is superior, and thats something I can’t accept.

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  43. HL

    Loved it Mia!

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  44. Chooka

    My view is that gay marriage should be legalised because marriage, whatever its beginnings, is a social and cultural institution which can evolve over time (exactly as Mia’s example demonstrates) and on current thinking it is wrong to discriminate against people on the basis of their sexuality.

    However, I was having a discussion with a colleague the other day who said that even in ancient Rome and Greece (where homosexual relationships were common and legal) there was a distinction between gay and straight relationships and only heterosexuals could enter into a marriage. His view is that given this historical context, marriage should remain between a man and a woman but there should be some other institution developed (with exactly the same legal status) to recognise gay relationships. I’m not convinced but I thought it was an interesting perspective that was worth sharing.

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    • Claudia

      It’s an interesting thought but I have to say I completely disagree with him. If you have one rule for hetrosexuals and another for homosexuals then that in itself is discrimination – there should be no differetiation because we should see both as being as normal as the other – otherwise where do you draw the line? One rule for those marrying the same race, another for ‘interacial’ marriages? One for first marriages and one for second marriages etc?

      Just my thoughts :)

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    • Alice

      It’s interesting to hear that but I do not really think contemporary society should be taking our social policies from ancient cultures. We have to move forward, not 2000 years into the past! :-)

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    • mizanthrop

      I’m not sure the ancient Greek example strenghtens your friend’s argument. From memory (and it been a while since I studied classics) marriage was a fairly buisness like arrangement in the ancient Greek culture, more a contract between families to secure wealth and legitimise children as heirs etc.

      ‘True love’ in the romentic sense was seen as the domain of same sex (male) relationships, as woman weren’t considered capable of that purity of love/emotion.

      So if we are going to take anything from the ancient Greek/Roman example I guess it’s that marriage is about ownership, while true love doesn’t require the recognition of the State?

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      • Chooka

        thanks for that clarification, I know very little about ancient cultures but I will point that out to him next time the subject comes up!

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        • nico

          also in ancient greece they had slavery. and pretty much no one could vote. and many other things we wouldn’t want now! ha ha.
          i mean, ancient greece gave us a lot but i also enjoy using things like modern medicine, which they didn’t have, y’know?
          (this was directed at your friend, obviously, not you ) :)

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  45. Jane

    Thank you Mia for a great story. My partner and I married in 2005 and now have two beautiful children. Our marriage was legal. Where? New Zealand of course – that tiny but in some ways more progressive place across the ditch :-)

    Being married is a big deal to us. It feels different. It feels more secure. And it felt right to us to be married before we had kids. Very conservative and old fashioned for a lesbian couple hey?

    Our marriage is like most others I would say. We have great times, we have good times and we have had some really really rough times. We’ve even weathered an affair and come out the other side – just. We are committed.

    I don’t really care what the Government or church think of my marriage – I couldn’t care less whether they approve or not. But I will still fight and vote for the right for other same-sex couples to get married.

    I had a religious upbringing. I know all the bible passages that are quoted ad nauseum. And I have run out of patience for those that hide behind a book and cannot remember that Jesus preached love, acceptance and tolerance. I wish the people would remember that every time they condemn and judge, they are hurting real people – real children – real parents – real grandparents.

    I have two beautiful, engaging, precious little people in my life who wouldn’t be here if people like Lisa below had their way. And where did we get these two little angels? Well they were a gift from God of course.

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    • Lu

      Good for you Jane. I chose never to live with any boyfriend including my husband before we married. And for me that included not having children before marriage. If you hold the same values, its seems wrong that you are denied the chance to fulfill them in Australia.

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  46. Sparky

    The State saying that same-sex couples may not marry is like the State saying that same-sex people may not enter into business together. Just stupid, and we wouldn’t stand for it.

    And the Christian Church? Love, love, love. This is the message of Jesus. All arguments to the contrary are just silly (so say I!), especially those based upon Old Testament ramblings written by the hand of man. I doubt very much Jesus would approve of the way the Old Testament gets used and abused these days.

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  47. Rob

    I think the article is fantastic and summarises the issue in a succinct manner. It is also hearteneing to read so many supportive posts. The sad thing is that there is probably a website out there with contibutions being made to it (right now)by people totally against gay marriage. It just reinforces the fact if you truly beleive in the issue and want to put right an injustice then you need to think carefully about who you vote for – otherwise nothing will happen. Unfortunately, the (many) politicians from the mainstream parties who do support a change feel scared to express what they actually beleive in.

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  48. Kate

    What is really bugging me about this is the whole “religious marraige” thing.

    I’ve always viewed churches as institutions which act within the confines of the law. You can get married in a church and have a religious ceremony, but to be legally recognised it must be registered with Births, Deaths and Marraiges.

    Churches can have whatever policy they like as far as I’m concerned, as I don’t follow their rules nor fear the same punishments (in fact, I don’t believe that any one person can have the same identical beliefs as another, which makes the rules pointless and the “religion” baseless in the first place, but thats an argument for another day).

    I’m not demanding that churches perform marraiges for same-sex couples. In fact, their refusal to do so doesn’t bother me at all as I think they’re only relevant to their own constituents. What I don’t agree with is religious groups objecting to laws that aren’t based on their beliefs. The law is supposed to be neutral, it shouldn’t take into account any religion or favour any race or sexuality. I don’t lobby for churches to be shut down or to be forced to perform same-sex marraiges, why should they be able to demand the laws that we ALL have to live by be changed?

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    • Claudia

      Really well said Kate.

      It really bothers me when religious people pick and choose what parts of the bible they believe in.

      For example, ultra religious people who are anti gay marriage (and often homosexuality in general) will often quote Leviticus that thou shalt not lie with another man for it is an abomination BUT two important points need to be raised for this argument:

      1 – at the time that part of the bible was written, the word abomination meant ‘not customary’, it did not have the same connotation that is has now, and
      2 – I suppose those who believe the above must also never eat shelfish because according to Leviticus, that too is an abomination!

      But no, throw another prawn on the barbie but whatever you do, don’t let gay people marry…

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    • mizanthrop

      Bloody good point, I don’t understand why we don’t hear it more often.

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  49. Singlemum of one

    I’m catholic and very much support same sex marriage. In my opinion, in the church especially, there is far too much emphasis on sex and not enough about love. It is pure and simple discrimination and EVERYONE should be able to marry who they want.

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  50. Picardie.girl

    “I’m secure enough in myself or my relationship not to be threatened by the definition of marriage becoming a little more inclusive of other loving couples.”
    Lovely statement, Mia, and one I am happy to proclaim. Especially fitting on my (and the bf’s) anniversary (not married, just dating for 2 years). More love, everyone… xx

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