Melinda Tankard Reist came out at the weekend to discuss the torrent of e.hate she has received online since instigating legal action against blogger Jennifer Wilson: “I receive, through Twitter, email and my blog, threats of violence and sexual abuse. Explicit descriptions of what a man (anonymous, though identifying as male) would like to do to me. And a couple of death threats. I am asked to send in pictures for ”arse” or ”boob” appreciation societies.”
Whether you support Melinda Tankard Reist or find her deeply problematic, surely we can all agree that threats and abuse are never justified? I felt compelled to reply to one Tweet calling her a “c*nt” : “Regardless of anyone’s views, misogynist name calling is NEVER OK.”
Not only is it not OK, but it is actually a distraction from the really valuable and valid conversations that we should be having.
Perhaps it’s timely to reflect on the particularly vicious way we treat any female commentator who dares to speak out…and what we may be really missing out on when we do resort to personal attacks.
Early last year I did a post sharing media I have been doing aimed at encouraging schools to be more proactive in dealing with sexual harassment. I received a comment from one of my blog readers that at first shocked me . . . and then got me thinking about another issue that affects all women and girls: the tendency in our culture to demean women based on their sexuality or for their looks rather than to engage with what they have to say. The comment was short, and cutting:
“We’ve seen your talks at schools. If you’re so keen to set a good example then don’t turn up to school looking like mutton dressed as lamb.” — Kim
I wondered exactly what it was about me that came across that way to her. When I do my self-esteem and skills-building workshops with girls, I wear an Enlighten Education uniform of sorts. We are often up and jumping around with the girls, so skirts and high heels are definitely out. It’s jeans or tights in winter, or mid-length shorts in summer, and then a black T-shirt embroidered with our butterfly logo.
Then I realised that the comment had drawn my attention away from the real issue: too often, when women raise their voices, they are criticised not for what they say but how they look.
Even now, in 2012, is that the currency of a woman or a girl — her looks? Is a female’s Achilles heel still her appearance? If you strike her there, do you take away her only power?
It isn’t the first time I’ve spoken out about sexual harassment or a women’s issue and been criticised not for my arguments but for the way I look. I have been helpfully informed that I seemed to have put on weight. I was sent an e-mail telling me that I couldn’t be a feminist because I have blonde hair. During the 2009 scandal involving Matthew Johns and teammates having sex with a 19-year-old girl, I wrote an article in defence of the young woman, who was being blamed and insulted in the media and on the internet. A reader commented that I was just jealous because I wasn’t desirable enough to get a football player of my own. In 2011 when I questioned the merits of allowing a young girl aged 7 to kick-box, members of that sporting community posted a picture of me which was made public on Facebook and declared I was a “slut”, “lesbian” and “fat cow”.
I’m not alone in being attacked in this manner for offering opinions. The woman whose writing had the most profound effect on me when I was young, Naomi Wolf, received a torrent of criticism for being too pretty to be a real feminist. On the other side of the coin, Germaine Greer has long been attacked for all sorts of supposed flaws in her appearance and femininity. Louis Nowra notoriously described her in The Monthly as “a befuddled and exhausted old woman” who reminded him of his “demented grandmother”. It should be noted that Greer herself is no stranger to flinging looks-based insults, famously describing a fellow writer as having “hair bird’s-nested all over the place, ****-me shoes and three fat inches of cleavage”.
Comments that target a woman for how she looks, rather than her ideas, are designed to do one thing and one thing only: to shut her up.
Yet it only spurs me on. The same can be said for other Australian writers and commentators I spoke to who also regularly receive such criticism. When I discussed this phenomenon with Emily Maguire, author of Princesses & Porn Stars and a regular writer on gender and culture, she told me: “There’s no way you can present yourself that won’t attract criticism from the kind of people who think that criticism of a woman’s looks will hurt more than criticism of her ideas . . . It only makes me more sure that this stuff is worth speaking out about. “
Writer and commentator Nina Funnell points out that ironically the most attacks women get about their appearances tend to be instigated by their speaking out about feminist issues: “There is something both disturbing and ironic about people telling you that you need a ‘good dick up you’ or that you are ‘too fugly to screw anyway’ when you are writing about rape-culture and sexual violence.”
Sexless. Old. Mutton dressed as lamb. Undesirable. Age is a common theme to this type of criticism. Rather than seeming to gain wisdom, experience, authority and charm — as is virtually expected of men — women are often deemed of decreasing value with each year they move beyond their 30s. We see it throughout our culture. How many good roles are there for actresses over 40? How many women newsreaders have career longevity without resorting to Botox? It is as if once women have passed a certain age, it is time for them to step off the stage. It’s no wonder that many women are angsting and trying to achieve the body of a 20-year-old — an impossible and time-wasting task.
One would hope that the situation was improving, but in fact, it seems to be getting worse. And it is often women who use the strategy of attacking a woman’s looks. Dr Karen Brooks, social commentator and author of Consuming Innocence: Popular Culture and Our Children, told me: “I have had my appearance criticised ALL the time . . . This has been happening to me for 13 years and it’s getting worse . . . I should add that most of the negative comments are from women. “
Perhaps there is an element of fear of change that drives women to this type of criticism. Perhaps this technique just comes all too naturally to women who have spent their whole lives learning how to play the “compare and despair” game. Perhaps the ultimate sin for women is to show confidence and to love themselves, so critics feel that outspoken women need to brought down a peg or two.
Nina Funnell offered me this perspective on it: “Underscoring all of these attacks is something very deeply rooted in our culture which needs addressing; it is the assumption that the views and voices of women who are not as attractive or youthful or skinny or sexually constrained, are somehow less legitimate than the voices of other women and men. It’s an idea that ties- once again- our worth as a woman and our right to take up space in the public domain with our fuckability- as defined by others. “
Whatever it is that drives looks-based criticism, the thing that hurt me the most about the comment I received on my blog was that this woman claimed she had seen me present to girls. At every school Enlighten Education has worked in, the girls line up afterwards to ask for a hug, a kiss and to tell us they love us. They tell us that it changed their lives. So it made me sad to think that in the presence of all the joy and positivity and love that bursts out of these girls, for at least one woman the lasting impression was my looks, something that the girls never notice or comment on.
Imagine the change we all — women and men — could make in the world if we took personal attacks out of public debate. Imagine if we all engaged in the debate, made respectful counterarguments, added our own ideas into the mix. Imagine if we all pledged to stop trying to silence one another. I have the greatest respect for the women thinkers and activists I have mentioned here. Do I agree with them on every single issue? Of course not. But I pledge to always argue my case while according them the respect they deserve. It will always be their ideas that I engage with, because ideas — not physical appearances — live on forever.
Have you noticed the abuse female commentators of all stripes receive? Why do you think it’s different?
Dannielle Miller is co-founder and CEO of Enlighten Education, Australia’s largest provider of in-school worlshops for teen girls on body image, self-esteem and empowerment. She is also author of the parenting book, “The Butterfly Effect“. Her next book, written for teen girls on finding their real girl-power, “The Girl With The Butterfly Tattoo”, will be released by Random House March 1st. She regularly blogs here.











Comments
154 Comments so far
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I do not support ad hominem attacks, especially those designed to denigrate. There are two points I’d like to make. Firstly, sadly the internet (and now twitter) allows people to ‘troll’ ‘flame’, etc using the cloak of anonymity. Everyone who speaks out is a potential target and the haters will use any weapon they think will hurt; vulgarity, sexism, racism, demonising, etc. No one is exempt and this leads me to my second point: MTR has used ad hominem attacks against people she disagrees with (she’s demonised quite a few). A look at her website shows that she can be quite robust in accusing people of some quite sinister motives. I would not call her civil, fair or reasonable.
I don’t know how you stop the flaming, trolling and vulgar abuse, but if you claim to be a victim of abuse perhaps you should make sure you are not also guilty of being abusive. And if you want to claim you have been bullied make sure you are not guilty a being a bully.
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““Underscoring all of these attacks is something very deeply rooted in our culture which needs addressing; it is the assumption that the views and voices of women who are not as attractive or youthful or skinny or sexually constrained, are somehow less legitimate than the voices of other women and men. It’s an idea that ties- once again- our worth as a woman and our right to take up space in the public domain with our fuckability- as defined by others.”
I think it goes further than this as people tear down ‘hot’ and beautiful women just as much as anyone else.
Rather, making vicious comment on appearance etc when any woman is voicing an opinion about an unrelated issue is an easy way of shutting her up (or attempting to). I think it shows 1) womens voices are often cosidered less legitimate 2) many people don’t know how to listen and debate issues, they prefer character assassination instead.
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This is one of the best posts I have read in a long time.
Excellent article.
Danielle, thank you for the excellent work you do.
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BUSTED:
http://www.cam.org.au/world-youth-day/get-real-body-image-forum-comes-to-sydney-for-world-youth-day.html
Danielle, do the words duplicitous and deceitful mean anything to you???
LOL!
And the sock puppets come out to play
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Lola I am not sure why you think the fact that I spoke at a forum that Melinda also spoke in 2008 means I am duplicitous and deceitful? I state in this article that I am happy to engage with a variety of women on issues even if I don’t agree with everything they say or do. I have actually had Melinda as a guest blogger on my site too – along with women who have very different views to Melinda on key issues as well. Not sure how you’ve “busted” me or what you’ve busted me doing?!
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Danielle
You have a link to Melindas Blog on your Enlighten site. I don’t see too many dissenting opinions there. . . . and your other blog is unavailable.
I am watching this debate with interest, as I find the ‘I don’t like it so you can’t watch it’ approach to porn disturbing.
I find it disturbing that instead of focusing on real issues that affect real women – equal pay, equal division of labour, poverty and access to safe reproductive health, you and the rest of MTRs choir are singing about your victimisation by a minority, or by those who do not agree with you.
I do remember the vitriol directed at a young and beautiful Germaine Greer, but I do not recall her whining about it. I do remember her being a wonderful debater, entertaining and amusing and confronting.
I guess that is what is missing these days from the debate.
Anyway, thanks for the non reply.
I’m off to do something tangible for women in need:
http://www.hamlinfistula.org.au/howtohelp.html
I knit for them, it is what we mad ancient crones do.
That, and reminisce about when we were fuckable. . . .
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Lola just for the record – I am NOT part of Melinda’s (or anyone’s) choir. You are WAY off the mark here. I am completely independent. All thoughts are my own.
I do allow a variety of voices to be heard on my blog though so people can make up their own minds. I am not into censorship. This doesn’t mean I support them all, and especially not on every issue! I also have links on my blog to the work of Emily Maguire (whom I adore), Clemantine Ford, Karen Pickering…a range of women writers and activists. Mia posts a wide range of writers here too. I am assuming she does not support them all, or agree with all their beliefs?
“My other blog is unavailable” – I don’t have another blog so I am note sure what you mean.
As for doing something tangible for women in need, I have spent my life doing that. In fact, my company works with 20,000 young women every year across Australia and New Zealand. I also run free events for CanTeen ( girls with cancer), the Mirabell Foundation ( for children who can no longer be with their parents due to drug abuse), for young women in crises / with criminal records, and with Indigenous girls.
My company was a Finalist in the Australian Human Rights Awards last year for our contribution to the lives of young women.
Calling out misogyny and vitriol directed against women is exactly the type of work all feminists have been engaged with for decades. It is vital. It is not whinging.
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?? What is your point Lola?
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I don’t care what MTR looks like. I care that she is bullying another woman, and she is using expensive lawyers to do it. She is not engaging in public debate, but she is trying to influence public opinion.
MTR and her supporters have not provided any proof of these threats. I thought twitter accounts included a name?
MTR has been busily identifying publicly as a feminist, when she is an anti choice woman, MTR worked for Brian Harradine for 12 years, as his bioethics advisor. This work involved the removal of AusAID funding for programs that focused on family planning or provided safe terminations. MTR is being duplicitous and decietful about her views and who her supporters are. MTR has put her head above the parapet, and she needs to understand that when you do this, some people might not like what you say. If you don’t want to get into a debate, STFU!
MTR cries about the sexualisation of girls, but remains frightening silent about the sexual abuse of children within the church.
MTR does not engage in debate with anyone who disagrees with her – try putting a dissenting view on her blog, and the reponse is (I paraphrase) ner ner ner, I don’t like you, so I’m not going to listen to you, or let others read what you have to say.
I am not attacking her, I am not setting up straw people, I am questioning her IDEAS and her ACTIONS, as are most of the blogs/articles by feminists.
And Danielle, one person saying they don’t like the way you dress and you got upset? Really? Try some positive affirmations. You go on to say that lots of the girls line up to hug you! Take the positives, ignore the negative. Or look at what is behind the comments. How unhappy is that ONE young woman? What is happening to her? Who is filling her head with crap about women?
It’s not all about you, think of what she may be experiencing that she has to make others unhappy to feel good about themselves.
As to men judging women on how they look? Any of the respondents to this post sleeping with/dating a fat bald guy?
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Lola no the article was not about me getting upset over one unkind comment at all. You seem to have chosen to misinterpret it. It isn’t all about me at all – it was an attempt to look at a very widespread issue that all female commentators (from MTR, to Emily etc) have experienced and question whether this may well be a distraction from key issues.
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Danielle
You are missing my point.
I am saying that if you want to express an opinion, you need to be prepared to hear the critics. By focusing on the abusive comments, Melinda and others who do this, distract from engaging in any real debate on what they are saying.
By focusing on porn and the percieved sexualisation of children, Melinda and her ilk take away from the real work of feminism, and their anti choice perspective becomes an accepted agenda for social policy.
By not addressing the real issue of Melinda bullying another woman, and ironically, using a male to do this.
By focusing on what is happening to her, you accept her right to bully.
By arguing that ‘we get called nasty names when we talk about sex’ you create a straw woman. That is what I was saying.
You are an influential educator, with access to a large population of young women. I hope that you take this responsibility seriously, and are able to see who the bully is, as mentioned in your opening paragraph.
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Lola you have missed the point. Deliberately? I think you are letting your anger with Melinda sway your reading of this piece which is NOT about Melinda at all!
To recap:
“Whether you support Melinda Tankard Reist or find her deeply problematic, surely we can all agree that threats and abuse are never justified? I felt compelled to reply to one Tweet calling her a “c*nt” : “Regardless of anyone’s views, misogynist name calling is NEVER OK.”
Not only is it not OK, but it is actually a distraction from the really valuable and valid conversations that we should be having.”
ironically, if you scroll down I am criticised elsewhere in these comments for being far too anti-MTR in this paragraph!??
My argument is that regardless of what we think about MTR or any commentator, surely reducing criticisms to the personal ( and misogynist ) distracts from much more interesting and important conversations we should be having eg: about censorship, what defines feminism etc.
I never argued that I get called nasty names when I talk about sex! Women commentators get threatened and abused when they talk about anything!! Is this ok? It is certainly not going to stop us talking but it is valid to call this out and question why people tend to attack women in particular with such vitriol.
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And you recycle as well:
http://enlighteneducation.edublogs.org/2010/05/28/sticks-and-stones/
Melinda has talked about this supposed harrassment for a lot longer than “this weekend”.
I note with interest that you, like most supporters of this nasty bullying woman, do not respond to the substance of any comments made about you, and have attempted to belittle me. Yawn*
OK, what is the TER for a Bachelor of Education the year that you enrolled?
I do not call other women names, nor do I cry that I am being bullied. Crying wolf is not the action of a woman who is authentic.
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Lola you aren’t digging up any dirt on me as there isn’t any for you to find! The editors at Mamamia asked me to refresh / update my previous blog (you hyperlinked to above) as a response to the article MTR wrote. Not sure where I have attempted to belittle you in my comments here but assume you asking my TER for Uni is an attempt to belittle me?
You’re not listening to me and seem intent to paint me as some dishonest “sock puppet” of MTR which could not be further from the truth!
I shall chose to disengage from this exchange now.
Best wishes.
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Dear Danni and Mamamia,
Thank you for publishing this fabulous article. This post was very timely for me!
Danni and Mia, I hope you get time to read this…
Each week, ESPN 700 Radio in Utah, USA, take a break from sports commentary to host the forum, “Hot or Not Wednesday”, for objectifying, degrading and insulting women. Radio staff and listeners select photos of women which they publish on their website and Facebook page and rate their attractiveness. The candidates are usually female actresses or television personalities.
Actress Hilary Swank (December 15) was rated “not hot” by ESPN Radio 700’s staff and listeners. If you have a look at ESPN Radio 700’s website you will see that the station have stamped the word “NOT” across photos of the actress. On their Facebook page Hilary was compared to a horse, with one person writing the comment:“ Nope not hot at all … she has a horse face”.
A group called Beauty Redefined, were alerted to the forum and on January 5, the radio station’s Facebook page was bombarded with criticism for objectifying women.
In response to the criticism the radio station selected (tongue in cheek), television personality Ricki Lake (January 18) as the “hot or not” candidate for the week. According to an ESPN radio announcer she was selected because: “no one would want to objectify her”. Comments on ESPN’s Facebook page included: “Yall serious ??? Ricky Lake ??? Jus on the outside she is one ugly chick.”
Comments about this week’s candidate actress, Maria Bello (January 25), included: “She wasn’t even hot in Coyote Ugly. Serviceable? Sure. But hot? Not a chance.”
When Beauty Redefined called into the radio station to debate the forum they were cut off air.
If you have a look at the radio station’s Facebook page you will see that some of the men and women who spoke out against the forum were personally attacked. One young woman was told she would be a “slow poke”. Others were told to get back to their “embroidery”. One man was called a “dumb arse”.
You will not see my comments or posts on their Facebook page because they have all been removed by the radio station. Even though my comments were valid and respectful. I have also noticed that some other people’s comments which challenged the radio station’s forum and culture have also been removed. As far as I can tell I have also been blocked from ESPN Radio 700’s Facebook page, because I can no longer write or like comments on their Facebook page.
I have since written a complaint letter to ESPN.
One may wonder why I am getting so worked up about what some people may think is a “harmless poll” on the other side of the globe. Why can’t I just ignore it? I think it is because I see so many harmful messages about women creeping in everywhere even into the forums of otherwise ‘professional’ sports radio stations. ESPN 700 Radio’s “Hot or Not Wednesday” forum is as good an example of the harmful objectification of women as any out there. It is also a good example of the way women are treated when they speak up.
If the Suffragettes never spoke up where would we be today?
Danni, I posted a link to your Mamamia column on Beauty Redefined’s Facebook page as a way of showing support to those women who were personally attacked. One young woman wrote: “Comments that target a woman for how she looks, rather than her ideas, are designed to do one thing and one thing only: to shut her up. Love this quote from the mamamia.com article!” It has also received a number of ‘likes’.
Danni and Mamamia, I love your work. Thank you for speaking up!
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Love your work too!
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Hi Melinda, how are you too? I don’t love your work at all. I wish you would debate openly and honestly with your critics.
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Oh wow, this is so timely for me.
A few days ago I commented on a YouTube video – a Lynx commercial featuring girls running around in their underwear with slow-motion close-ups of their oiled-up cleavage, and a bunch of comments from men about wanting to wank over it, etc. – and called it objectification. A guy replied that “someone sounds jealous”, to which I replied “yes, totally, I call out sexism and objectification when I see it because I’m jealous. Obviously.”
He then responded with, “Clearly if you were half decent looking you wouldn’t give a shit, you’d say ‘yeah, I like that, glad I go to the gym and look good rather than being on YouTube giving shit patter and looking like a 35 year old Welsh hooker”.
Me: “I’m 16 years old, actually, but don’t let me ruin the perfectly good mental image you’ve got of me. Glad to know being a women’s rights advocate means I must look like a ’35 year old Welsh hooker’”
So… a) If you’re pretty, you can’t care about world issues?
b) Similarly, only ugly people care?
c) Girls who complain about objectification only do it because they’re ugly, and jealous of the girls being objectified?
d) Wtf is a 35 year old Welsh hooker meant to look like anyway? Why 35? Why WELSH?!
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Girl, 16:
I think you may be my new (s)hero.
You are one smart, gutsy girl.
Kudos.
xxx
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P.S Just shared your girl-power with my Facebook community. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Enlighten-Education/38293082169
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Bravo to you Girl 16. Feel so proud of you. Smart and gutsy. I think you have an amazing future ahead of you.
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Thank you, both of you, I feel very flattered!
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d) – how baffling! I’ve never heard an expression like that before!
Love your work, Girl 16.
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@ Girl 16..
I am going to develop some of your attitude! Good on you!
It’s nice to know that our future is in such good hands..
Be strong!
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Great writing as always Danni. Super exciting to see you writing about such an important issue on such a fabulous website! Very thought provoking … a (much older, male) work colleague commented in a meeting the other day about how ‘summer suits me’ along with a couple of other asides (because I’ve got a bit of a tan) and, as he caught me completely offguard, I had nothing smart to say and blushed instead (damn!). I felt anoyed with myself, uncertain and a bit weird for hours … and I’m in my late 30s! It can never be about how we look, it has to be about what we think, do and say. I have two daughters and this has made me think – not about the comments I make about others, as that’s not my way … but in taking it one step further and challenging others on the comments they make. Bravo Danni!
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Oh the irony of some ‘experts’ in the media. I was the victim of bullying on Facebook by a professional adult… she has appeared on television several time’s since discussing the damaging effects of cyber bullying. Just sayin’!
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Thank you for an amazing article.
I work in a very male dominated area. The discrimination is breath taking at times. I’ve had male colleagues puff up and try to intimidate me physically on the odd occasion I have challenged them. One of my co workers had the worst mouth on him, but all his insults were female based. I asked him why, quietly, all his insults were female. He was shocked. At hope I made him think.
Does anyone else remember the news articles and the comments when Quinten Bryce was appointed governor general about her clothing allowance? In very few articles was it mentioned that she got exactly the same allowance as her male predecessors. But cause she’s a woman, it’s suddenly newsworthy.
Ps Jane Caro you are one of my role models.
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No woman or man should ever shut up because someone says ugly things to them about the way they look. To me, the person who is looking pretty off is the one with the ugly mouth.
Keep it coming Nina!
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And Dannielle and any other woman who feels compelled to keep making a point for us all to think about
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Perhaps the person that wrote that impactful comment wasn’t actually there. Hasn’t actually met you. They just troll around and make comments, and as most women pay some attention to their looks, “mutton dressed as lamb” will hurt many.
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I wholeheartedly agree with Dominic’s comment below – a thoughtful expansion on the article above. I too believe that the “straw (wo)man” reactive response to women’s expression of such ideas and opinions springs from a subconscious place in the reader, a place where anger, fear and resentment of implied criticism lurk just outside the immediate awareness of the reader/listener concerned. It’s a knee jerk response to this combination of unwelcome emotion – it seems that only a savage, vicious and irrelevant backlash to the perceived attack can assuage these feelings.
I blog a little, though not to a very wide audience and obviously with a much lower profile than the commentators above. I can however report that my opinions have been met with similar spiteful, stupid responses – from other women as well as men.
I have a pretty thick skin, confidence in my own opinions and enough humility to be willing to have my opinions challenged – in thoughtful and mutually respectful conversation. Tends not to happen though…
I too have had my intellect attacked via comments on my looks, which is something I’m secure enough to deal with. The thing that always makes “bite like a shark” and come out swinging through a red mist is when my right to express my opinions is challenged on the basis that if I hold and express such views at all, I must be morally and ethically suspect and intellectually deficient. I have always rather naievely clung to Evelyn Beatrice Hall’s famous assertion that although I may disagree with what is said, I would defend “to the death” the exponent’s right to say it. It’s a shame to find that this courteous intellectual sentiment is so rarely observed and that fear of criticism or challenge leads to such unpleasantness and attempts to silence debate. Perhaps it is time to consider writing freedom of speech into the constitution? It won’t stop people having nasty, cowardly little minds to stay tightly locked up in, but it may give them pause for thought.
Keep it up ladies and reapply lipstick frequently. It annoys the savages….
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All so true, unfortunately. It does sadden me when I see any comment using a person’s looks in a degrading way to knock that person, instead of focusing on the issue. We blasted Kyle when he did it to the female journalist. I wonder if these same people who think Kyle was wrong have used Julia Gillard’s looks to negate her, or have made a negative comment about any other powerful female or feminists? I hope more articles like this can help shift some attitudes out there. Don’t think it will change those anonymous bloggers who seem to get a kick out of creating mischief – but any change will be great. Keep up the great work mamamia with getting these views out there.
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I also feel compelled to say what an authentic article this is. It resonates because it tells the story so many of us feel but are unable to properly articulate.
This, THIS, is why Mamamia is what it is to so many.
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I am thrilled it has resonated with so many. Thank you.
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Great piece, Dannielle. Thank you.
I am truly astonished–and I don’t think of myself as naive–at the level of vitriol and nastiness that is directed at women in the public eye, particularly if they have something to say. I find myself appreciating even more what these women are prepared to do, that is, if they are willing to put themselves and their opinions and their ideas into a public forum then they’re also prepared to cop the horrible abuse (often entirely irrelevant to their argument) that comes with that decision. I know for myself that I am often inclined to not take a public stand on things I feel passionate about because I am sensitive to what people say — even people I shouldn’t take any notice of. I really admire women who put themselves out there because it shows they have the courage of their convictions. Even MRT, who I don’t agree with on a number of issues.
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Thank you for the fantastic article. It is very, very sad but true.
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I think that some women’s attacks also stem from them not believing that it IS possible to have brains AND be attractive… “Hmph! She’s so beautiful… Surely she can’t be smart!” and vice versa. I hear this from women in varying conversations and mediums- “God, she’s so smart AND pretty. Pretty AND smart. Why does she get to have it all!?”
Suddenly, there is a need to take her down on that front, whether it’s simply thought or whether it’s said out loud, usually deriving from the attacker’s own insecurity “I don’t have it all, so she can’t have it all!”
… These voices probably don’t occur QUITE so literally, I think such insecurities are usually too deep-rooted to be identified in the moment 
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Naomi Wolf is too pretty to be a feminist, Germaine Greer is too ugly to be a feminist.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
This is why feminism is as important as ever in 2012.
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This is the best article Mamamia has ever published. Thank you.
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I am truly grateful and humbled.
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I agree, it was the best article I have read on here (and there are plenty of good ones).
Thank you for your insight and commentary on the issue.
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“Underscoring all of these attacks is something very deeply rooted in our culture which needs addressing; it is the assumption that the views and voices of women who are not as attractive or youthful or skinny or sexually constrained, are somehow less legitimate than the voices of other women and men.”
The problem is that women can’t win no matter what they do or who they are. If a young, attractive woman opens her mouth and says something significant, she’s treated like a precocious child or a dog doing an interesting trick, because heaven forbid young women have more going on in their heads than social trivia or sex positions. Recently, a fifteen year old girl uploaded a photo of herself holding a popular atheist book to the atheist subforum on Reddit. The photo was part of a moving post about acceptance, but she was greeted with sexual harassment and violent abuse along the same lines as the examples given in this article. On a personal level, I’ve lost track of the number of times some loser (usually someone older than me) has laughed off a comment I’ve made because I happened to be wearing lip gloss or high heels at the time.
This is a great article, by the way, and the message needs to be repeated every time public debate features this kind of misogynistic mud-slinging. Now I have a link to send my mother the next time she asks me what I think of Julia Gillard’s fashion sense or posture.
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Couldn’t agree more….
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Lauren, could not agree with you more. One thing I hate about being a young woman is how older people(usually male relatives), even guys my own age treat you like your a fool just because, well, your a girl. It’s like they think you should just sit there smile and agree with everything they say because your either must be an idiot who has nothing to contribute to the conversation or if you do, your showing them up by being more informed than them.
My mum also always comments on what the Prime minister is doing with her hair. Why does it matter? Why are you not listening to what she says?
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I could not agree more. And now all the fuss about Julia Gillard losing her shoe, instead of just saying that she lost her shoe, their all mentioning the brand and the foot size!
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Thanks for writing this article, Danni. It’s eloquently written and raises so many important points, because almost all women have experienced this. I know that those sort of appearance based insults don’t even have any merit, but it’s still hurtful when it’s directed at you. I think you’re gorgeous on the inside and outside.
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Philosophy labels this process of criticising a person’s argument by attacking their appearance; the ‘straw man fallacy’ or ‘straw women fallacy’ as is this case. Regardless, I have always understood a ‘straw person’ attack is, as Ms. Miller has already identified, to shut down the author of the argument in the fastest, simplest manner possible, this regardless of their gender. I do whole-heartedly agree that this attack is wielded against women almost exclusively because of the long-standing misperception that a women’s credibility, merit or worth is somehow inextricably linked to her appearance (no matter what kind of appearance that might be). However, the purpose behind using this type of attack is, what I believe, at the heart of this issue; that the attacker doesn’t have to exert the effort of confronting the reality the arguer is presenting.
I believe the underlying issue that plays out in the perception of woman who make philosophical/social arguments concerning the inequality of their reality, draw appearance-based criticism (instead of a reasoned critic of their argument’s logic) simply because the arguments are educating or reminding the population that such injustices exist. You’d expect those that endorse sexist ideals to attack you for highlighting and challenging such attitudes, but the majority of this appearance-based criticism is, I feel, an emotional response to the misguided perception that the argument presented is seen as a criticism of the reader for not knowing better.
In the majority, people know but do not confront the reality that sexist attitudes persist today. They understand but don’t really challenge that such perceptions are morally wrong. They therefore don’t appreciate it when a confident, self-assured journalist comes along, pulls their heads out of the sand and reminds them all that the world isn’t what they’ve lead themselves to believe. Thus, such appearance-based attacks are to simply shut down this reality-confronting discourse, and these attacks are appearance-based because attacking a women’s credibility through her appearance is the fastest and least complicated way an attacker (male or female) can go back to feeling better about themselves and their reality, instead of suffering the potential indignity that perhaps their perception of the world might be wrong.
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So eloquently said, Dominic. I completely concur!
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I hate to nit-pick, especially given that much of what you’ve said is largely valid. There’s just one thing. Philosophy does not call this type of argument “the straw-man argument”, rather it calls it “argumentum ad hominem”, or arguing to the person.
The “straw-man argument” refers to the practice of presenting another argument in an incomplete way. In doing so, the argument is not presented in as strong a way as possible. Therefore, it is easier to shoot-down. Hence the title “straw-man”, i.e. really easy to knock over. Politicians do this A LOT when talking about the position of their opponents.
“Argument ad hominem” is a logical fallacy which refers to attempts to destroy another’s argument by making a claim about their personal traits, as opposed to the validity of their logic. For instance, saying that a person’s claims are invalid because they wear a silly hat. This is what is being referred to in this piece, with a particular focus on gender-based attacks to the person.
Also, I would say that men do in fact receive “argumentum ad hominem” attacks. However, they generally don’t receive it based on some feature of their gender. For instance, an attempt may be made to repel a man’s argument with the statement “what would you know you f****n idiot”, or “you’re a d***head, anyway” (think Youtube). However, there is rarely a comment directed towards a feature of their gender. Such is, unfortunately, not the case with women, as is pointed out in this article and as you point out in your comment.
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Thanks ‘Also Dominic’. You’re totally right, ‘argumentum ad hominem’ was exactly what I was looking for and mistakenly put the ‘straw man fallacy’ in its place. I appreciate the quick philosophy tute… it’s been a while.
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Germaine Greer- despise her so so much. I can’t believe how nasty she is. She’s a total bully and an attention seeker. I don’t understand how someone who claims to be a hard core feminist and has made her way into the public eye that way can be so hateful towards other women. It absolutely does my head in! Any mention of her makes me see red. Wait this works with the what baffles me post too! She gives feminists a bad bad name. But being a feminist is just believing in equal rights and respect for women. I think she’s gotten lost somewhere.
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Pure curiosity.
On what grounds are are basing this perception you have of Germaine Greer? In what way is she a bully, attention seeker and hateful against other women?
I mean she didn’t really like Steve Irwin much but I’m perplexed as to why you think she hates women. I’m genuinely baffled by this.
PS You despise Germaine Greer because allegedly she hates women. Are you not exhibiting the same behavior that you don’t like in GG?
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There is an example of her degrading another woman in the article. She does this kind of thing all the time. Yes she hated Steve Irwin and said cruel things about him when he died. That wouldn’t have hurt him though. It would have hurt his wife and the many many people who loved him. She has dumped all over the government for helping Aboriginal communities. There are many many instances where she has put her two cents in purely to make news. If she didn’t want publicity she wouldn’t have written some of the disturbing things in her early work (so not going to repeat it). And she wouldn’t have gone on celebrity big brother. She appears to have this idea of what a feminist is and who can and cannot be one. Ie she has spoken out about SHM. Women with out careers etc. I said she was hateful towards women not that she hates women. If you (universal you not you personally) are her idea of a feminist and agree with what she says and give her the attention she craves she would love you I’m sure. I’m not a fan of taking away choice. I believe that feminism is about choice and making those choices free from judgement. I don’t like her because of her shock value tactics and the way she hurts people. I can’t see how my saying that is exhibiting any of her behaviors. I know what people say about her. All the nasty mean things which I won’t repeat. I don’t think those things about her. I think she is quite intelligent and very much aware of what she does and how she impacts upon people. Which is what I have a problem with. But hey I shouldn’t really go on and on about someone I don’t respect and who probably wouldn’t respect me. It’s funny that you said I displayed her behaviors (ouch) because I am a feminist (surprise- but who isn’t?!) but I prefer to look at wonderful and inspiring feminist like Somaly Mam (whose pendant i am wearing) to learn from. She has had it harder than anyone but she never ever stops her work, she certainly never wastes her time celebrating someones death or telling people how to live their lives etc. Also she would never ever ever want to stop a government from intervening when women and children are being abused. You know because she is already at the frontline of that war! Anyway that’s my explanation and now I’m going to duck for cover incase I’ve pissed off any GG fans!!
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Funny you should mention Matthew Johns, because quite frankly, the way Melinda Tankard Reist has been treated online this last week (no, wait, for pretty much her whole career) reminds me of a footy gang bang. The victimisation, the team backslapping, the dehumanisation and attempts to silence and discredit the victim. But she should have seen it coming, right? I mean, if you go around saying unpopular things there are some people who are NOT GOING TO HAND YOU A CUP OF MILO.
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This is a brilliant article. I have actually had to limit my reading of comments on news articles, blogs and opinion pieces as often I’m left feeling angry, ashamed and even sad. Debate in this country regularly seems to boil down to personal insults (regardless of sex) which completely sidelines any decent discussion. Look at our supposed political debates and you can see why things seem to be getting worse. People are free to disagree, and that’s the beauty of our society. It is hard however to respect people’s opinions when they denigrate and insult rather than put forward rational arguments.
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I honestly think that if someone resorts to attacking another persons opinions by disparaging their looks, intelligence, weight, etc, it is symptomatic of the attackers inability to form a coherent, logical argument with which to respond, resulting in a fallback position not disimilar to schoolyard taunts. The attackers come across to me as boorish, insecure and not worthy of anyones attention….that is what they crave, after all.
I would also lay odds that a large percentage of these keyboard warriors would not dare say anything to their targets face, reinforcing another view of mine that they are also cowards.
Rise above them Dannielle, as I am sure you do already
, as you and others who speak out intelligently and reasonably are to be admired and treasured, not villified.
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I guess i have always found that image based insults are not something you can argue without seeming self absorbed which in a way helps their argument hit you harder. It’s a little like the childhood “so is your face” response. Once i was working in a nightclub when i gently explained to the customer that he was to drunk for me to serve he replied with a charming “Ah you are nuthin but a pair of tits i want the manager”. I almost burst into tears and even now a compliment about them (in intimate situations only) still makes me uncomfortable as i feel i have to justify that i have more going for me than just my “great rack”. After writing that statement i just realised how awfully true and sad that is. I think i have to work on fixing that any suggestion??
Thank you for this article i love it!
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Danielle, I love this article. Like you, I remember the ridicule that Naomi Wolf attracted because she was attractive but speaking her mind about feminist issues. Women cut her down because she was too pretty and therefore couldn’t possibly understand the problems women face, and men also implied her attractiveness negated her credibility. Over the following years I can also remember my two younger sisters (who are both strong, independent women) stating unequivocally that they were not feminists (to my overwhelming despair).
Unfortunately, I believe that we are our own worst enemies in these areas. Like my sisters, many women distance themselves from feminism because they fear negative comments. Others are just too busy competing with each other instead of supporting our rights to say what we truly think. It can be disheartening sometimes but for us true believers the battle through our words, our hearts and our minds must continue.
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Interestingly it was Melinda Tankard-Reist that gently helped to bring awareness to this issue for me when I commented on a female politician. Since becoming aware of issues like body image etc and being on twitter I can see the nastiness flying around everyday. I have begin to consider these messages and behaviours and wondered why I used to engage, where did it star? I think the culture begins in school and carries on through to adulthood. It was certainly normalised in my family and those around me. There were no roles models to explain and show us how to effectively disagree and debate. The mass media, music, politics, families etc all seem to engage in some form of vilification. It’s as if the only way we think we can feel ok about ourselves is to not merely put someone down, but in some cases utterly destroyed. Wow, we need to find ways to improve our interactions, be seen to be respectful of ourselves and others and in my case begin to better articulate my own voice without negating anothers. Be interested to appreciate other viewpoints and be polite if I choose differently. Know when to step up and look for ways that empower and unifiy.
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Hi kerry, my family also normalised disrespectful behavior, and still today have limited communication skills when arguing or trying to debate. They usually resort to personal attacks or vilification. My husband refuses to visit any of my family as he will not participate in such behavior. He would love to tell them why, but does not out of respect for me (I’ve asked him not to). Makes things difficult. Maybe I need to step up and say something?
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Incredibly, and heart-breakingly true.
I use to run a drop in centre for young people, where I had to keep order and often that ment discliplining or kicking out those who were misbehaving. On a daily basis I would get called ugly, fat etc. by those I was punishing (after a while you don’t even hear the insults), it only ever happened to the female staff – never the males.
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Brilliant. That is all
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Excellent post. Sadly true, but good for you for raising it.
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I LOVE this post, Dannielle. I hope we get to feature lots of posts from you this year on Mamamia. xxxx
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Thank you Bec, you’ve been incredibly encouraging.
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Wonderful article and unfortunately oh so true…
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Can’t believe someone would go to the effort of posting/tweeting to someone about their appearance. It’s incredibly lazy. If these people can’t post an argument, why bother? Why would they waste their time?
Great article Dannielle.
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It is so unfortunate that despite how far society claims to have come in terms of women’s rights and equality, the fact is we ARE still judged on our appearance and sexuality and there IS still a glass ceiling.
I’ve specialised in a couple of industries through my time as a journalist where I have been one of very few women at events etc, and the men just feel it is perfectly acceptable to make sexually explicit comments, even if there is a camera rolling!
I think it’s because in these environments, they know I am the lone ranger, and they are the pack (the disgusting, gross, pathetic pack).
They subtly (actually, sometimes, they aren’t so subtle) support each other’s behaviour by allowing it to continue and laughing it off.
Sometimes I laugh it off too, because that is the only option, but the worst experience I had was with a potential client at a convention I was covering.
He talked about advertising with us, offering a year-long contract…if I went out on a date with him. I politely said thanks but no thanks, and attempted to steer the conversation back to the work I was there to do.
He wouldn’t have a bar of it. He told me in no uncertain terms that he would not advertise if I did not go on a date with him.
I lost the business money, but I managed to keep my dignity.
It shouldn’t have to be like that, and it disgusts me that it is. When you turn a guy down, you’re a slut, a bitch, a c*nt!
I have a theory: go back to caveman days. From there, up until about the 40′s and 50′s women DID depend on a man. Women couldn’t provide for themselves, they couldn’t gain meaningful employment and they were mostly expected to be home with children.
It was a case of women waiting idly and pleasantly by until the man grunted “me, want you,” and the woman took him up on the lovely offer, because really, what else could she do?
Now, while men (in bars, at work, on the street, via social media or wherever else they hit on women) basically do the same routine “me, man, want you, woman,” mostly we turn around and go: “no thanks.”
Man confused. Why that woman not want him? Man’s pride hurts. Man angry. Man take it out on woman. Make her hurt too.
Oh, and then there’s the women thing. My goodness, women are complicated bundles of emotion aren’t we?
We know we take out our own insecurities out on other women, we judge each other because we judge ourselves.
It’s a lot easier said than done, but we should be supporting the sisterhood, not tearing out sisters down from their successes!
Great article Dannielle, you really hit the nail on the head!
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@Miss B – “It is so unfortunate that… we ARE still judged on our appearance and sexuality and there IS still a glass ceiling.”
I guess that’s why the Williams sisters go on the court dressed as sex objects. As to the glass ceiling it’s not so on the tennis court. Women are now getting the same prize money for being required to put in less effort.ie only have to win 2 out of 3 sets whereas for men it is 3 out of 5 sets plus the mens tennis is of far superior quality and it attracts greater spectator numbers. The only way spectators are attracted to womens tennis is by women players emitting loud orgasmic noises each time the ball is hit including little dink shots. You won’t hear the Sex Discrimination Commissioner talking about this.
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Ha! You just proved what a misogynist you are and completely proved the point of this article, Romeo Papas.
Women tennis players dress for practicality. They need clothing that is easy to move around in and the dress code stipulates they must wear skirts or dresses.
How dare they put in any effort to look nice! Do you expect them to wear a burqa when running around a tennis court?!
You’re basically saying the same thing Sheik Hilali did, when compared scantily clad women to uncovered meat! What you’re both saying is, women deserve what they get because they dared to take pride in their appearance!
And, the fact that you even hear those noises made on the tennis court as “orgasmic noises,” is ridiculous. They are elite athletes, they are straining their bodies and the exertion has to come out somehow. Is it an “orgasmic noise” when a football player gets tackled or engages in a scrum? I don’t think so. Because men aren’t subjected to the same sexual scrutiny as women.
However, I do agree with you that if women want the same prize money, they should play the same number of sets, just as if they want the same pay in the workforce they have to do the same work as a man.
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Yes, Miss B you’re right, women tennis players do need clothing that is easy to move around in. I don’t know anything about a dress code that stipulates they must wear skirts or dresses. This is how Venus William’s outfit that she wore at the 2010 French Open is described:”Venus, 29, wore a “corset-style” lace tank with red piping paired with a tiny frilly skirt and nude-colored panties. The effect made her look like she was bare-assed and wearing lingerie on the court.” I bet the good old Sheik Hilali would have liked to have seen that.
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I think Venus and Serena go over the top with their bling and outfits.
I don’t watch women’s tennis because the chicks are hot and make orgasmic noises. I watch it, and other women’s sport because I’m a chick, and I don’t play with brute strength like guys do. Girls play differently. If you can’t get past a short skirt or pair of shorts, that’s your problem, not theirs.
Oh and FYI, I’ve got the Rafa/Fed game on now, and they’re grunting the same as Maria Sharapova. And wearing some pretty tight shorts.
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Kris2040, you seem to have forgotten what the argument is about: “It is so unfortunate that… we ARE still judged on our appearance and sexuality”.
I have no problem with what women tennis players wear or the noises they make on court…I don’t watch women’s tennis…I either switch channels or turn the TV off. As to Rafa/Fed grunting…yes Rafa grunts a bit but nothing like the deliberate high pitched drawn out 110 decibel noise the like of Sharapova make. I understand the crowds are now starting to give them heaps and there is much discussion in the press about it as to whether it is cheating or not. But on one thing you are right…women do play differently…they don’t have any choice.
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I agree about the grunting – it’s annoying to watch, and Maria Sharapova has been reprimanded for it, hasn’t she? Azarenka got heaps for it in her eventual (unfortunate) win against KC today.
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Very well written. Thank you. I found advocating on facebook proved ineffective before long which was unfortunate because through facebook one can reach a wide relevant audience of people who support your cause – professionals in the field, legislators, politicians, CEOs, educators, doctors. And they can all be supported and linked together with minimal effort on facebook. Unfortunately, the flipside is facebook also attracts many undesirable e-haters and over time they pull in their mates and followers to. Over time, I realised than in order to advocate effectivley, stay up to speed wiith everything effecting my main cause – legislation, research, public opinion, raising awareness, eduction – I needed to adopt a very thick skin in a very short period of time. However, many personal attacks, over many weeks/months take their toll regardless of skin thickness. I came to realise that having a deep passion and desire to help society meant that personal attacks would cut to the bone most days due to that very deeply passionate and caring personality. The effect of those attacks can not be avoided by someone who cares so deepy. I had to question whether the trauma caused by constant attacks and ridicule outweighed the effect of having a voice for others who so desperately needed validation, support, understanding.. 9 times out of 10 it did but a lot of time out, healing and relaxation was incrorporated and necessary. Thanks again for the article.
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I cannot tell you allow encouraged I am by the response to this article. At the risk of sounding ridiculously sentimental, I will admit to being quite teary.
I’ve always believed the standard we walk past is the standard we set and have frequently chosen to defend a female commentator if I see her being personally attacked ( even if I don’t agree with her). If more of us did likewise, perhaps those who chose to engage at this level might rethink their behavior?
I have also fronted cyber bullies directly, including phoning a very prominent kick-boxer at home to explain to him why setting up a hate page about me was not only unacceptable, but dangerous! That exercise should probably be filed in the “don’t try this at home” file as it could have back-fired but he was not only very shocked to hear from me, but most apologetic!
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Keep fighting the good fight Dannielle.
I too have confronted bullies on Twitter when they say derogatory and hateful things about women on TV just because they don’t agree with their opinion. It didn’t make me popular nor was it an easy thing to do but I did it anyway because it was the right thing to do. In the end the bully backed down. And in the morning the bully wrote a tweet saying that she woke up and realized she had gone too far wishing that a well known female politician would die (and this was among other hateful tweets).
Also, I am a woman in her thirties. I am all too well aware that I am starting to become invisible in society because my sexual currency is fading. It is so f*ucking sad because it seems that there is nothing that I can do about it until society starts to value women at all ages.
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I sent a tweet to Virginia Trioli complaining that she and another commentator had bought into the “Oh what was Julia wearing!” when the PM met the Queen. Oh, “just one comment ..” Virginia replied “I’m sure you’ll cope” she said.
Exhausting as it is, embarrassing though it can be, we all have to maintain the rage against the perfidious idea that How You Look is more important than anything you might do or say… across the whole spectrum of racial or sexist abuse – from the small minded and petty to the shockingly violent.
Don’t stand by.
Speak up.
It works – Jenny (formerly known as Jenny Craig) was told, and cancelled the advertising on the Kyle and Jackie O show very quickly….
Maintain The Rage.
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Great post and very true. When people (mostly men) didn’t agree with my comments on The Today show about sports people not being heroes, instead of engaging with my argument, they hit Twitter, email and Mamamia to abuse me in the most graphic terms imagineable.
Jewish wh*re c**t was one of the more tame ones and it was by no means rare. They abused my looks, my family, my children, my sex life, my husband……
I’ve been appalled to note some of the abuse levelled at Melinda Tankard Reist these past couple of weeks. It is misogyny and it is appalling.
If you disagree with someone’s views, debate them!
Don’t sink into the sewer and start hurling shit.
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Good god, I had no idea the Cadel saga went that nasty – I (naively) assumed that the worst you got called was ‘unAustralian’.
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Terrible to hear ythat you copped that abuse. I am not trying here to be inflammatory, but why call the abuse ‘misogyny’, if a bloke like andrew bolt or john howard or whoever cops a torrent of foul abuse, it is not sited as misandry. Why imply only women can be the subject of horrible offensive stuff. I dont get the feminist angle here.
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Calling someone a c*nt is misogynistic.
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Ok, then I shall cry misandry whenever I hear the terms cockhead or dickhead. Thanks for the headsup.
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If you wanted to insult a man as much as possible, would you call him a cockhead or a c*nt?
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Because calling a woman commentator you don’t agree with a “slut” or saying she needs a “dick up her” is clearly misogynist. The type of abuse hurled at female commentators does often differ in its tone (e.g: it is regularly more looks-based) when compared to that which may be used when disagreeing with a male commentator.
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Mia and dannielle, I have no issue with the sentiment here re respect, but I do have an issue with posts on this site suggesting time and time again that issues are so much more serious for women.
I get that this is a female focussed site, and that content is directed as such, but this does not excuse the constant tone on almost any issue suggesting that women (or other minorities) have an exclsive victim status. It gets sooo tiring. These type of issues CAN be discussed without the inevitable ‘misogynist’ type lines.
Re this topic, mia points out that most bad comments re Cadel were men. Well most of every comment on that subject were from men because men follow mens sport more than women, see, no sexist gender issue. I bet most of the nasty comments re MTR was from women, as it was a topic that generates passion from women.
Hod, I remember a skit showing howard being fucked by bush. Worse than anything I have seen directed at women pollies, yeet I dont recall outrage and cries of misandry. Abbott gets it all the time re his speedos, yet nobody in the media would dare the same line against a female, etc etc. yet this site still (as always) sees a grand gender agenda in any topic involving a woman.
How about we push for respect from (and to)everybody, or does that destroy the whole MM brand. Fear of women losing their exclusive victim status. Enough already please.
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Mia, I worked in a very male dominant industry and in one of the board meeting when I brought up a very contentious matter, the reply from a very senior executive was “I bet you go off in bed, you little pocket rocket”…
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Jesus!!!!!!
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Amazing article, Danielle. So bold yet thoughtfully expressed, and without a shadow of disrespect. Honestly, we need more women like you!
I can relate to so many aspects of what you’ve discussed here. After a recent blog post of mine, in relation to body image (my angle was more about women vs. women in the fight to accept themselves and others), I received one very negative comment (one amongst MANY positive ones). It was from someone anonymous, whose argument completely missed the point of my article, did not really address my actual angle at hand, and went so far as to make assumptions about my appearance in a most bitterly haughty fashion. Yes… I can very much relate to the ‘ignore idea, attack appearance’ concept. I did reply to it, because I too, still felt my notions and ideas were worth defending, but I chose not to even address their assumptions about my physique… That argument would just detract from the issue at hand, and further ignite a futile fire.
“There’s no way you can present yourself that won’t attract criticism from the kind of people who think that criticism of a woman’s looks will hurt more than criticism of her ideas . . . It only makes me more sure that this stuff is worth speaking out about. “… I think this quote sums it all up for me.
We don’t all have to agree, but we don’t have to attack each other!
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Spot on Danielle. Like Emily says, society is so fixated on a woman’s responsibility to be visually and sexually pleasing that critics focus immediately on that. It’s assumed that the greatest thing we can desire as women is to BE desired. It’s played like the ultimate trump card, the check mate move – ‘Nice try at being an innahletchool love, but I wouldn’t bend you over and give you one so you’re completely worthless to me’.
I had someone send a string of tweets my way last week that called me, among other things, ‘too ugly to even be raped’ and ‘nothing but a cum dumpster’ (which seemed inconsistent, to be honest – how can you be nothing more than the receptacle for a man’s junk when you’re too ugly to ‘even’ be assaulted?)
The saddest part is that the men and women who spew such vicious, misogynist hatred aren’t all sad internet freaks living in dank basements and wearing last month’s underwear. THEY WALK AMONG US. And the anonymity of the internet allows our worst, most toxic sides to come out.
Ultimately, I find I’m far more sensitive these days when someone is critical of my work than when they comment on my appearance. Apart from the fact that most physical insults border on ludicrous, I refuse to participate in a system that reinforces the idea that the greatest compliment I can receive is that an anonymous, illiterate stranger would like to fuck me.
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You are so right, Clementine. People grow bold and minor frustrations turn into full-fledged vitriol behind the anonymity and ease of the internet… It’s as if somehow they don’t have to be respectful anymore! Then they can walk away, feeling ‘good’ about themselves, and never have to deal with any actual consequences… It’s both sickening and saddening.
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Much Kudos for using your real name Clementine.
It highlights that very point.
It’s easy for the main players in your struggle to hide behind a fence and throw missiles.
Melinda who?
The feminist who spends her life sending letters of complaint and dodging questions.
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Firstly thank you for this post.
My mother used to say money will buy looks but never brains, and brains are priceless. In the end women are generally more targetted for their looks than their ideas, and philosopies. How often is Julia Gillard criticised for her taste in clothes, hair colour, accent etc in the mainstream media, yet I recall John Howard rarely being criticised for being bald or his glasses choice etc.
Until women are acknowledged as more than breeders and wifes by society (I know, I know there are many people who don’t think like this) and are treated with the same respect as men this will continue.
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I remember endless eyebrow jokes myself…
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What I remember as being incredibly disturbing was when I went back to University in my late twenties. Was all the younger girls slagging off the older women. When there were lectures and these older women would voice opinions and even (god forbid) disagree with the often male lecturers, they would dismiss them as embarrassing, irrelevant or militant feminists. Apparently feminism was seen as a negative thing in their world view (WTF!). I must say I found it incredibly sad the negative feelings many of the young women had towards the older women. Has this come from our youth obsessed culture, that deem women out of their prime (i.e. over 30) as irrelevant and objects of ridicule. I would remind them, if it wasn’t for feminism they would not be at university at all and that they too shall age. Sometimes it seems women are there own worse enemies:(
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*their own worse enemies
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*worst
:p
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It could be more the inexperience of youth, not understanding the wisdom one has when they are older & that it is ok to challenge male authority & to simply challenge University authorities on their knowledge, and maybe also for them to march proudly to the feminist drum beat would reduce their fuckability within their social groups.
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I have heard Dannielle speak at my daughter’s school and she was brilliant! I thought that the fact that she was young, spunky and full of energy and positivity as something that the girls could relate to. Dannielle has energy bursting out of her and I never forget her opening with (not a direct quote) that teenage girls get a bad wrap, and that she loves them… they are bright and shiny. Changed my perception of my daughter going through puberty from a negative to a positive – I keep that comment uppermost in my mind when I’m listening to my 14 year old yell at me! Swings my mood around as I see her potential as she is fighting my boundaries and wants to be become more independant.
My daughter is also extremely attractive, and I have NEVER talked to her about her looks, always focused on her inner qualities – beauty fades and if her whole life is wrapped up in how she looks, she doesn’t have a hope to make it to middle age in one piece.
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And as mothers of the next generation we need to take up the challenge to raise our daughters AND our sons to see the person inside and not get distracted by what is on the outside!
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This is truly an article that expresses perfectly what I’ve always felt but couldn’t express- I feel it every time I see a woman speaking out in support of a feminist agenda cut down because “she’s only so angry because she’s ugly”. It is almost like people will only take you seriously if they like the way you look when you say it. Additionally, I’ve always felt uncomfortable watching the “Letters and Numbers”, despite how enjoyable my family and boyfriend find it, because I honestly feel like Lily Serna is up there parading around (David Astle gets a desk to solemnly sit behind) and, whilst proudly having a masters in maths, is only allowed to be so intelligent because she can be so pretty at the same time.
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Unfortunately our whole society is built upon looks. We glorify attractive people and do not recognise the intellectually beautiful. Things will not change as women can be as bad perps as the men.
Even adverts amaze me, there is always an older greyer male with a much younger prettier looking wife! We see this and are pushed into trying to make ourselves continually youthful.
Ho hum – who would be a woman !!!!
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I am of course the exception to the rule…
Greying middle-aged man with a much older, prettier-looking partner!
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You’re just special JJ . . .
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So are you Cuppy!