Tracy
by TRACY COX
In today’s politically correct climate, suggesting you have ‘duty shags’ – sex purely because your partner fancies it now and then – is guaranteed to offend.
When I first suggested this in my book Supersex for Life, I got more than a few sniffy remarks – and the odd ‘How dare you!’ But I still stand by it. And hell, someone’s got to say it regardless or we’re all going to end up divorced, celibate or so desperate the old man next door in the button-down cardi looks hot.
So here it is: if you’re in a long-term, monogamous relationship, I think you should accept that you will have to have sex when you don’t feel like it sometimes. Maybe more than sometimes…
The argument for having sex with your partner, even if you’re not drooling with anticipation, sliding off your seat or frothing at the mouth for it, should simply be that you love them, value the relationship and want to make them happy sexually. And because you know they would do the same thing for you.
Let’s be realistic here: you might not say ‘to love, honour and shag’ but that’s what’s implied when you make a commitment to only sleep with each other. You promise to satisfy each other’s sexual needs on a reasonably regular basis. If either of you stop doing that, you can’t expect your partner to be either happy or faithful. And vice-versa.
I want to make something else abundantly clear at this point. By ‘duty shag’ I don’t mean say yes, roll your eyes, purse your lips and lie there like a cadaver, checking your watch behind their back. It must be done gracefully rather than begrudgingly or it’s pointless doing it at all.
This means seeing, rather than ignoring, the naughty glint in your partner’s eyes and acting on it rather than pretending you didn’t notice.
Grabbing the hand that creeps over to your side of the bed even when you’re up to a really good bit in your book, rather than pushing it away or (worse) patting it in a patronising, ‘There, there’ fashion. I want you to see lust in their eyes and find it a turn on rather than something to feel annoyed or threatened by.
And – here’s the clincher – I want them to see lust – or at the very least enthusiasm – reflected in your eyes.
How is that possible if sex is about as appealing as getting up and cleaning the oven at 2am? Well, if you’re not feeling sexy, think emotively instead: about how happy your partner is that they’re about to get something they want. Think generously, think ‘This is something I can give him or her’.
That will get you through the first bit, then who knows? Study after study proves if you make the effort to try to get it in the mood for sex, a lot of the time, you actually end up feeling like it. Even if you don’t, most long-term couples know each other’s bodies well enough to press at least enough of the right buttons to mean it’s not an unpleasant experience.
Desire isn’t the only motivation for sex. Love, fairness, generosity and wanting to make your partner happy are damn good motivators as well. If your entire sex life consists of duty shags, you’re in trouble. But even couples who rate their sex lives as ‘highly satisfying’ say around 20-25% of their sexual encounters are done to please their partners, rather than themselves. Some therapists claim only about 40 to 50% of sexual encounters are mutually satisfying and good for both of you. Sometimes one needs, wants and enjoys it more than the other. It’s as simple as that. Sometimes that will be you. Sometimes that will be them. Assuming you’re not in one of those periods where sex necessarily takes a backseat – babies, exhausted from kids, major work stress, death of a parent etc – would it really be so bad if you turned off The X-Factor and turned your partner on instead?
Tracey Cox is an internationally recognised sex, body language and relationships expert as well as a TV presenter. She’s appeared on Oprah, CNN and The Today Show in the US, as well as numerous prime-time chat shows in the UK and world-wide. Her first book, Hot Sex: How to Do It, was an instant worldwide success and is now available in 140 countries. Her other book titles include Hot Sex, supersex, superflirt, Hot Relationships andsuperhotsex. She also has her own range of Tracey Cox Supersex Toys and Lubricants.
Follow Tracey on Twitter @TraceyCox or on Facebook here. Her website is at www.traceycox.com and you can buy her books here. Tracey also blogs weekly here.
“Duty shags”… what do you do when ‘the hand’ reaches across from the other side of the bed and you don’t feel like it? Or maybe you’re the one doing the reaching?
Comments
199 Comments so far
Read the article. Great read. Eye opening even. Thank you Tracey. I have to admit though, I find the “duty shag” the hardest part of marriage. The most unpleasant, unenjoyable part of marriage.
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It can work the other way too, I can tell you as a woman it is absolutely devatsating to not feel desired by the one you love enough to marry. I know exactly how the men who have eyes rolled at them or thier partner pretending to be asleep or being an arse just before bed time to keep you away from them feels, it is heartbreaking and ultimately leads to withdrawal and the end of the relationship.
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Well you can’t be on the mobile site as you can’t ‘like’ or see the ‘liked’ thumbs….
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Yay
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This is the second duty sex article in recent months – how about some balance? I don’t think women want to go back to the times of forced conjugal duties and lawful rape within marriage.
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You know, that’s not what she is saying. To read into it like this is quite unfair. Did you actually read some of the comments below from others?
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I don’t have time to read 188 comments, I just posted my reaction to the article.
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The article has nothing to do with marital rape. I think you’d find that every decent man on earth finds the idea of marital rape abhorrent.
It’s about caring enough about your partner to put yourself out every now and then to do something for them.
It also happens both ways, men quite often don’t want to but can be aroused anyway, in the same way a woman’s vagina will lubricate during a rape. It’s a non voluntary response and doesn’t mean that either the man or woman actually wants to have sex.
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I guess its not the worst thing in the world to agree to shag without feeling like it. And by the end it’s rockin
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‘Another anon guy’ you are confirming what I am saying. Your ‘basic need’ as you call it is YOUR problem, just like my period pain is my problem. I don’t expect my husband to sort out my period pain, just like if I’m not in the mood, he makes a date with his hand. And my needs are getting met in my marriage thank you, now my husband understands that it’s give and take, not all about his ‘basic needs’. He’s an intelligent, lovely guy who sees how women still get the rough end of the stick, in so many ways. Maybe when you’ve been in a relationship for a long while, you’ll understand the complexity.
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‘Another anon guy’ how exactly would you discuss this with your partner before marriage? You must give me sex every day, twice a week, every Saturday, regardless of how busy/tired/uninterested you are…or I’m not marrying you??
The latest research on divorce shows one of the reasons is couples don’t know how to be intimate outside the bedroom. There are other qualities you might find attractive in a prospective wife than how well she satisfies your sexual needs!
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Yes the article probably wasn’t as gender biased as I implied Sarah Jane. I just always look at everything from the feminist view point and assume most women are like me and most of my friends, who don’t need sex as often as our hubbies. For years I never said no to my hubby because I thought it was my ‘duty’…plus he would sulk so I would feel guilty and the next night initiate it. Then I had my first child and was exhausted from traipsing the halls all night for night feeds. With my second child it occurred to me that the reason I was exhausted was all the traipsing and I realised how ‘duty-bound’ women are to share their beds with their husbands, with all that goes with it. So I kicked him out for nine months with my second baby, got loads more sleep with bub in my bed and established a beautiful bond with my baby that will always remain. It started a revolution in me and got me thinking about how the bedroom is so for the male while women put themselves, their babies and their needs second, all so their husbands can satisfy their sex drive when they need to. I remember reading that only in the western world is there SIDS….and we are the only culture that does not sleep with our babies. I think women still feel sub-consciously vulnerable, that our men will leave us unless we ‘put out.’ Yet we shouldn’t be afraid anymore, we can pay our own bills and look after ourselves. I feel the bedroom is a direct reflection of where women sit in society and we won’t have equality while women feel they still have to put men’s needs first. Our men loving us for saying no should be our aspiration, not us loving them by saying yes. (For all those girls with the high libidos, lucky you!)
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‘Our men loving us for saying no should be our aspiration’
Again, this is a very gyno-centric way of looking at things. If you felt that your needs weren’t getting met during your marriage I feel sorry for you.
Its unlikely men will ever love you for denying them their basic needs. I know that you would like this to be the case, but its impossible. Can you imagine loving your husband for denying you hugs because he didn’t like the obligation of cuddling you?
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As a feminist this is just such a backwards step in thinking! Things may have changed in the workforce but in the home, especially the bedroom, women are still exploited. Why is a couple’s sex life always driven by the male’s needs? Why don’t we let them know that our libido will be the decider of how much sex they get and if they are lucky enough to get as much as they want, all well and good. If not, they didn’t marry my libido, they married me. Men need to lose that traditional sense of entitlement to our bodies and their expectation to be able to release their sexual energy whenever they feel like it. You see signs of it everywhere that men still feel they should be able to get it when they need it. It is their problem to deal with their testosterone, not ours. Women are not just vaginas, it’s not the 1950′s anymore Tracey Cox and if our men leave because they aren’t getting enough sex, seeya! What sort of bloke would leave his partner because she’s respecting her own body’s needs anyway? Saying no to sex does not mean you don’t love, respect or are attracted to your man, it means you are too tired or are not in the mood, full stop. If your man loves and respects you, and if he has a BRAIN, he will be ok with this.
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I’m not disagreeing with your opinion or views, I just wanted to share that I interpreted the article as encouraging both people in the relationship (male and female, or female/female and male/male if that is the case) to participate in a duty shag once in a while. There have definitely been times in my relationship when I’m feeling up for it but my boyfriend is not in the mood, and I would love a duty shag in that case! It’s not always the males that have a higher libido, often the females have the higher sex drive in the relationship. I didn’t get any gender bias in this articlel.
Just wanted to contribute my differing interpretation of the article.. I usually stay away from online discussions because I don’t want to offend anyone, but I’m trying to participate more!
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‘If not, they didn’t marry my libido, they married me.’
With respect, your hardline stance has little in the way of compromise. As a single man I would never marry a women if I was sure I was not going to get my sexual needs met. Open communication before marriage would make this clear.
This isn’t about men using women as objects. Its about men having a deep emotional need and not getting that need met within a marriage. If they aren’t getting their need met, why would they get married?
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As a girl, I agree with anon guy. Marriage should be about both partners seeking to meet the needs of the other, imo. This doesn’t mean they have sex EVERY time one of them wants it (which is not what Tracey said anyway) but that, now and then, they give over for the sake of the other. Out of love.
There’s nothing chauvinistic about this, it applies to both parties.
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Yes it is about meeting another’s needs. If that is not happening, why? Has there been some past unspoken hurt, is there a resentment of some slight. Or has something from the past of one partner coloured their perception of things in this relationship. Communication is the key to love, understanding and forgiveness. It is so sad when relationships are not loved (lived) to the fullest.
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It’s not about feminism or power over another or anything like that. It’s about respect and response. I’m not advocating that women should put out on the kitchen table when they have period pain, nothing like that at all, but caring for a partner means doing stuff that may not be your first choice. It doesn’t make a woman second class or downtrodden at all.
Try if you could, to imagine what it’s like to be a man and be continually rejected by women. It’s particularly bad for men who truly love their partners only to have their partners knock them back all the time.
Or to put it another way, do you like being rejected?
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I have no problem with a duty shag. But I find it very interesting, and very disturbing, how it is such a regular occurance for women to be told how little or how often they should be having sex.
It changes throughout our lives, as teenagers it’s a definite “NOOO!” from almost every aspect of society – parents, media, health system, religious organisations, etc. And then as soon as you are married the same people (well, maybe not our parents) are telling us “Have sex more often! It’s good for you!”
Quite possibly, both bits of advice are sensible. But doesn’t it strike anyone else as strange that this sort of advice is not given to men as well? I don’t think society even has a discourse about how often men should have sex, or do the dishes, or anything much. They can just do what they want – or at least decide on their own terms that suit their own life. Maybe I’m missing something, and I’m curious what other people think. But why do women get told how to behave so often? Frankly, I’d like it to stop. I’m happy to do a duty shag, but I don’t see why anyone needs to give me that advice without me having asked for it.
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I had a duty shag last night and may I say it was Magnificent!
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Not getting your needs met in a relationship breeds resentment, whatever those needs are. So don’t meet your partners physical or emotional needs, but prepare to wear the consequences.
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I want to see this re-written with “housework” replacing “shag”.
“The argument for CLEANING THE KITCHEN, even if you’re not drooling with anticipation, sliding off your seat or frothing at the mouth for it, should simply be that you love them, value the relationship and want to make them happy. And because you know they would do the same thing for you.”
“COOKING DINNER must be done gracefully rather than begrudgingly or it’s pointless doing it at all. This means seeing, rather than ignoring, the HUNGRY/DESPERATE/EXHAUSTED glint in your partner’s eyes and acting on it rather than pretending you didn’t notice.”
Then there could be a few more shags, duty or otherwise.
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Hell yeah!! I couldn’t agree more!! As a Mum of two young children, my days are spent giving my all to them. Every whimper, every whine, every demand etc…all day long…To then sit there at the end of the day after cleaning up the dishes from the meal that I just cooked, the last thing I think is, “Hmmm, how can I give a little more…I know, get my husbands needs fulfilled! Yes, that’s how I’ll end my spectacular day!! Having sex when I really don’t want to!!” Cause its not about me at all, my life is just about serving my family!!
All it takes honestly is a little bit of effort on his behalf. Not effort in the bedroom…effort say, hours before we get to the bedroom, when I’m doing the dishes and he is not…that kind if effort would result in me making effort when he wants it…rant over!
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Great comment, Rach. God, I remember those days, and that feeling. You’ve just made me feel better about the fact that I’m single now. Thank you!
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In my universe – doing the dishes IS foreplay!
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I also think it’s the physical thing. You have a couple of kids physically hanging from you almost constantly – whether it’s breastfeeding, cuddles after a fall, holding hands while out walking, wiping snotty noses, lifting them down off the kitchen table (over and over and OVER), snuggles while reading a story, bathing them. I think I probably spend about 50% of my waking hours in physical contact with one or the other of my kids.
So when it comes to MORE physical contact with my husband, I often find it hard to give up the few hours of personal space I can enjoy between the kids going to bed and my going to sleep.
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yes! it took me ages to work this one out- at the best of times, i don’t like physical contact, i’m not a hugger or toucher, so when i had babies and they are attached to you ALL DAY, feeding, settling, i got ‘touch overload’ and when husband got home it was the last thing i wanted. took me ages to get over it. still not a touchy feel person, and need my personal space and me time to feel that i can give attention to kids and husband!
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I don’t get this theory – touching by my husband is a totally different type of touching and feels good and very different to my kids touching me all day. I am a person who enjoys physical contact though and crave it when I dont get it.
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I hate being single. I love having someone to talk with and cuddle up to. I love being around my children and now they are older, talking with them. But I also need someone at night. There is nothing like having the love of another half, if you can get that right.
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This is great to read! We have small children and often comment that we really need to have sex as it’s been a while, chuckle and then settle for a cuddle and spoon! Often one or both of us half heartedly get things moving and by the end of it are both grinning with satisfaction. It makes me mad that people get married and then one, often the woman, turns off the sex and is furious that he/she want sexs!! How dare he/she! I agree that in this situation the one who turns the sex tap off can’t expect the other to be faithful
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QUOTE: ‘You promise to satisfy each other’s sexual needs on a reasonably regular basis. If either of you stop doing that, you can’t expect your partner to be either happy or faithful. And vice-versa.’
I actually thought you made some great points about valuing your relationship and connecting with each other until I came across THAT statement!
Seriously? If I don’t put out I can’t expect my husband to stay faithful? What an awful, sexist,, blanket statement that one is!!
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Would you seriously condemn your husband to a life time of chastity? a lot of women do and expect their partners to remain faithful!
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It’s not sexist, it applies to women too. I was in a relationship for a long time in which my partner just plain wasn’t into sex. I definitely started to think “Hold on. My sexuality is a vital part of myself and I’m being forced to only engage in it with you – yet you’re not interested in engaging. If you’re not keeping up that end of the bargain then you’re basically telling me to engage in it elsewhere”.
I never cheated (we ultimately broke up), but I could absolutely understand why someone would and – more importantly – why they would feel justified in doing so.
You don’t own your partners sexuality. They commit to you and to doing the right thing by you as a choice – and most people honour that choice. But if they are constantly rejected and their partner refuses to engage in that side of them then maybe they’ll start questioning that choice.
I’m not trying to be inflammatory or saying cheating is ever okay – but I think it’s something people shoudl be aware of.
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I’ve been in a relationship with a girl with abnormally high sex drive. I made sure to give her what she wanted (within reason) even though I was tired.
What are men meant to do if they aren’t getting their needs met? Walk? Cheat? Not get into a relationship in the first place?
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Was the word ‘abnormally’ really necessary?
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If it was high to an extent that wasn’t usual (normal), then yes.
I’ve got an abnormally high sex drive – much, much higher than any of my girlfriends, so I’m happy to call it what it is. Unusual/abnormal doesn’t have to be an insult, it can just be accurate.
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She was far outside the average and I meant no offence by the word. There is nothing wrong with women wanting sex and I think its fantastic when they want lots of it.
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Hi MM team. Can you please tell me why when I view this thread it registers that I’ve given a ‘thumbs up’ for every single comment even though I haven’t done any at all? This has happened to me before on other threads.
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Hmmm, this is interesting, because I can’t ever give a ‘thumbs up’, even when I want to?!?!? I use to be able to, but not since they changed/update/upgrade the website.
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I’m glad you wrote this. i have been trying to like comments all morning without success and thought it must just be me!
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That’s happening for me too
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Me too!!!!!!!
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I sometimes duty shag. But nowhere near as much as my boyfriend gives me cuddles when he doesn’t feel like (ie when he is in the middle of playing online poker or watching his favourite show).
When I really don’t want to there is no way I would. But if I’m not totally anti and have the energy, I do. And usually end up enjoying it. I see no issue with what Tracey is saying. As long as you are in a loving supportive relationship and it isn’t only duty shags there shouldn’t be a problem.
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Me three!
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my biggest bugbear is that my hubby tries THE SAME MOVES. I keep telling him, if he ASKED me, rather than just gropping my boobs and shoving his hands down my pants like he has lost his keys, then I might be interested, His argument is that he shouldnt have to ask. To hear him vocalise, tell me how much he wants me might be a turn on rather than the awkward fumbling that he thinks is a turn on. It is a massive turn OFF. And I cant tell him this because he gets all sooky and sulks.
meh, I would rather go without.
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My husband tries the grope or the leer. The leer in particular is a turn off.
Also if he talked to be about anything – rather than being connected to his iphone 24/7 – tweeting, communicating with the world – that would be a turn on
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Why don’t you offer him constructive feedback? Instead of saying, or quietly thinking, ‘Shit, same approach’, why don’t you go on the front foot and say ‘Let’s spice it up, tiger, here’s what I had in mind…’. You initiate sex and initiate it the way you want it.
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Exactly. If you’re upset, communicate.
Don’t expect him to mind read and spontaneously change what he’s doing.
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Trixie Belle said in her comment “I keep telling him” so it seems she has tried to communicate this with him many times…
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Totally agree trixie bell!! I’ve tried explaining this to my husband – after 20 yrs together, 13 yrs married and two kids I can’t just decide to “switch on” like he can. Takes a bit more warming up than groping boobs, turning off the tv and nodding towards the bedroom!! Just him doing the dishes would probably be enough to want to shag him right there in the kitchen.
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I’m perfectly happy to only have sex once every 1-2 months. My partner puts up with it because sex is something that can easily make you feel violated so he doesn’t push it. If it was any other aspect of our relationship I would be happy to meet him halfway. With sex; it’s just not going to happen.
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So are you alright with him using porn or masturbating when he needs release?
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I think there is something to be said about the art of seduction here. An arm creeping across the bed or a “do you wanna do it?” is not quality seduction. Maybe we need to be teaching our menfolk (as Grandma would say) the tricks of the trade.
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I feel a duty shag is kinda like going to the gym… Sometimes you really don’t want to go, but once you’re there, and especially when you’re finished, it’s freaking awesome and I never regret it.
Although, I do have a healthy loving relationship with my husband and don’t feel the need to duty shag very often : )
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I completely agree!
Sometimes I’m so tired after a long day, and know what he’s thinking and wanting, and I honestly think I could not be bothered, but probably should – like the gym.
Funnily enough, those are the occasions that have blown my mind most in recent times – possibly because he’s put a bit more effort in to get me going
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Agreed.
I also think physical intimacy is a really important part of a relationship, and sometimes you need to ‘work’ on it to make it happen, just like you would if your emotional connection had slipped.
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That is the perfect description!
Well put Mrs K!
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I completely agree. I used to go the duty shag but thought if I’m going to go there might as well enjoy for myself too. We have been together 14 years have 2 young children and I’m heavily pregnant with the third. Despite this probably have the best sex life we have ever had. I think sex is very important to a relationship and if you can’t get on board or communicate constructively about your differences then it isn’t a particularly healthy situation.
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I’ve read a lot of the comments and find some interesting points. I was in an abusive first marriage where there was no option, sex on demand or else. My gorgeous second husband, and we’ve been together 20 years now, will take no for an answer, and we’ve been through some lean times where the libidos just haven’t been in sync. Where we find ourselves now is interesting as we both feel the need for a ‘duty shag’. We have 3 kids at home, 2 of them are adults. Finding the opportunities to make the time where we are awake and the kids aren’t means that when we do, we both feel like it’s a duty to do it. We love each other very much, it’s never a chore, but we do laugh about the situation! When we manage to go away for a night, then it s definitely a duty
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time to start shagging more during the day. you’ll repulse your kids and they’ll get the hint to move out and start their own lives
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I totally agree with Tracey. I think that semi regular sex is a ‘duty/requirement’ in a long term relationship My husband and I know that we both get irritable and grumpy if we go for more than a week without sex so we will often have duty sex. It has an immediate impact on our moods and makes us much nicer to each other. I think it is normal to have periods of time where one or both partners don’t want sex but I don’t think we can expect to go for years without sex but still stay faithful.
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I completely get where you’re going here. My issue I guess is that I’m prone to gnarly mood swings and feeling unwell thanks to hormonal issues. So sometimes the thought of sex just makes me feel ill, and I get dizzy moving around….and other times no matter what my poor husband does it irritates the hell out of me (even if I normally love it). So I’ve found a compromise. If he’s really in the mood, he’ll masturbate next to me – we still get to be intimate even if I’m not participating more than to lend a hand or talk to him. Or if I’m not feeling really sick I’ll go down on him – the funny thing is, if I’m just in a filthy mood I always end up being in the mood after a bit. Then we’re both happy and I’ve had time to work up to it instead of feeling pressured. I used to feel like I was ripping him off somehow by talking myself into it so to speak, but it’s really not that way at all. We just have different sex drives. He gets excited in a stiff breeze and I’ve battle physical and mental issues so often that my libido just needs a boost. It’s not that I don’t love him, that I’m not attracted to him physically or that he is hopeless in bed. It’s just what works for us.
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Sex just to please my husband is something that I have an issue with in general (Are you kidding me? To keep my man? Get real! He wasn’t worth keeping in the first place!) but as someone who has suffered from painful vulvar vestibulitis for over ten years, the concept of a ‘duty shag’ sends me into cold sweats. Obviously, the women who agreed with this article have never experienced the stabbing, slicing agony of painful intercourse.
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Seriously? do you really think the article is about having duty sex with a man ” who wasn’t worth keeping in the first place”? and yes, obviously those of us who see the article in a different light to you don’t experience the pain you do. Geez keep it real.
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I am so sorry you suffered from vulvar vestibulitis, that must be awful. I did not get the impression that Tracey was suggesting we have sex when it will be painful, or for other legit reasons. My take on the article was that if you partner really wants sex and your excuse is just can’t be bothered or I’m reading then these are the times to give purely for that sake that it will make your partner happy.
Thanks for the article Tracey, I needed this reminder!
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Nobody is asking you to have sex with your husband and be in agony. That would be outrageous! I think you are missing the point. Perhaps thought of as a gift-shag instead of duty-shag it may make more sense, when you give a gift to someone you love it’s for them and you don’t expect anything in return.
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You will need to train your man in other forms of intercourse besides the vaginal form.
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A lot of great comments to this post below!!
I agree with all of those of you who have said ‘it’s my body, I’m not giving up on it every time my partner wants a shag, it will lead to resentment’, but I think what’s important to also take from Tracy’s post is the point about letting go and allowing yourself to perhaps maybe enjoy it a little bit.
I often end up giving duty sex and go through the emotions you describe, but my husband is always accepting of a No, even if I can tell he ends up grumpy (I blame it on hormones – he tries his best to hide it), and he is always very appreciative of my efforts to keep him happy when I do comply.
What a load of mumble jumble, forgive me, my toddler is demanding my attention. I just wanted to point out that giving in isn’t always bad.
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I don’t think my husband and I have had “duty sex” we’ve had “duty foreplay” that has blossomed into mutual “let’s fuck ourselves silly” though.
I couldn’t count the number of times he has let the hand stray over my leg in bed while I am reading and my first thought is “shit, I’m stuffed, I cant be bothered” 5/10 minutes of “duty foreplay ‘ later and i am a more than willing participant.
Sometimes I think I am just lazy lol, like it is too much effort, but always worth it in the end.
Having said that there are times when I am just not in the mood and my husband respects that and no he doesn’t sulk (how childish, go and have a wank in the shower)
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I totally agree with everything you said!
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Couldn’t agree more. Sometimes I’m tired, or stressing over mundain everyday crap when my husband will bust a move, sex is the last thing on my mind, honestly after a couple of minutes of foreplay and I’m hot to trot.
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Just because someone says outrageous things and gets lots of press does not mean they are an expert!
Men and women, you do have bodily autonomy.
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Married for nearly 24 years & sex gets better & better, no we’re not always in the mood at the same time and sometimes one has to do more work than the other, but it’s worth it in the end. But that doesn’t mean we sometimes agree to not to & are cool with that.
My mother told me when I was much too young that she only had sex with my father for grocery money & I promised myself that I would never use sex as a bargaining tool, and never have.
If you’re not in the mood give it a chance you might just end up feeling great or at least knowing you’ve made your partner feel great!
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“Duty shag” really wasn’t the best term, huh.
Also, (another commenter I can’t remember who you are) – always the woman not wanting sex? Really not the case in my relationship, as my boyfriend is a 9-to-5er who always has some sort of political/social campaign/cricket match/etc to attend, is dating me, the soon-to-be-employed with no extra curricular activities, takes three sugars in her coffee and sometimes looks after her nephews.
From what I understand about the article, Tracy is not telling you to force yourself to have sex whenever your partner wants it, even if you feel like a corpse. She’s telling you to sometimes ***try and get yourself in the mood if you’re not in the mood***. This doesn’t mean “turn it into a chore.” Also, there’s really nothing wrong with a bit of “I’m actually a little bit tired, or otherwise not really wanting it at the moment, but you know what, I’m feeling generous because you mean that much to me” every now and again. Don’t do it so much that you actually feel cheapened and lose respect for yourself. It’s supposed to be a romantic gesture.
And if the partner doesn’t appreciate these things that you give them, NO. JUST NO. It only works when you know your partner appreciates it.
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I think this is spot on. It is about getting warmed up even if you’re not quite in the shagging mood. It’s not a chore, obligation or “rent” as someone said below. So, I may be more interested in watching Offspring. But if hubby helps with the kids, cooks dinner, does the dishes and gives me “the look”…..well, I can always record and watch Offspring tomorrow night!
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You had me until you mentioned interupting Offspring hehehe
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I might finish my rant and go and eat some dinner. Maybe instead of the duty shag a much more healthy approach would be duty “couple” time. If that means sex, great. If it means a dinner without the kids, great. If it means just taking 5 minutes to appreciate your partner even better still. And the sex will follow….
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This article makes sense for me and works for my partner and I in the context of our relationship at this time in our lives. My drive is pretty low, I rarely initiate anything. But I do end up enjoying myself and consider it an incredibly important part of our relationship, so never feel resentful. If I’m totally not up for it I’ll be honest and he fully accepts it without a word or hint otherwise. In the right kind of relationship (low external stresses and low internal pressures) I think this is a great approach
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You are a very very wise woman. Please continue with your exceptionally good work.
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Sex is SO overrated!
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Sounds like you’ve been with the wrong people
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I agree (that you’re sleeping with the wrong person)
Seriously I was in a relationship long past its useby date, it was my first, and I thought “what the hell is the fuss about?”
..
Then I met my current partner. The fuss is justified.
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Really? That’s kind of a sad thing to say.
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Married- happily – for 36 years.
Duty snags are a last resort only and partners who really love you hate them and feel patronized by them.
Do them too often and you will end up hating sex and your partner.
Sex is not rent. Sexual needs are the individuals responsibility and never your partners. Marriage does not buy you your partner’s body.
Have sex when you both mostly want to (sometimes you may need a little encouragement) always feel free to say no and to accept no gracefully from your partner. Your body is always yours and so us your partners.
A woman is not a spittoon, a man is not a stud.
Marriage & sex are hard but can be worked out with humor, love, patience and respect for both yourself and your partner.
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Duty snags – lmfao!!!
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Duty snags: the sausages you have to eat, even if you don’t feel like them. Often a result of BBQ peer pressure or impending use-by date.
Sorry, couldn’t help myself.
Ipomen Scarlet
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I would like this comment, except that apparently I already did. But I didn’t. GLITCH.
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I’ve had that happen several times on various MM articles today
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A great post!
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Jane you are so right. I have been married for almost 17 years now and while the sex is not as hot as it used to be, it is something that we do when we both want to do it. I do not think that having sex three times a week or two times a week or even once a week makes a relationship work. It is about much more than that. Respect for the other person. A shared life purpose. Love. Sex is fun but not essential. There seems to be a strange ‘fashion’ at the moment to pretend that everyone has a hot sex life and ‘needs’ sex all the time. It is simply not true.
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OMG agreed K. Everytime I read this column I feel so inadequate. My husband and I aren’t doing anal or using toys or butt plugs etc etc but you would think we are the only one. After 3 kids and with a small child who rarely sleeps sex is not my priority at the moment. Sex is a small part of life and if I’m getting it fine but I won’t fall apart and neither will my husband if we aren’t going at it like rabbits.
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Would have liked your comment Jane Caro, but it wouldn’t let me.
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Like button not working so commenting instead. I’ve been happily with my husband for 33 or so years. I agree with everything you have said especially the part about “are a last resort and partners who really love you hate them”.
That is true!
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Love, love LOVE your work, Jane! Beautifully said, and I’m still giggling about the “duty snags” typo.
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Mmmm just reminded me that I need to get the kiddies to bed early tonight
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Woohoo! Someone’s getting themselves some sexy time, LOL!
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Am sure he won’t need his arm twisted
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Crikey, if I feel like it and the Bloke doesn’t, or he’s at work or whatever – I just amuse myself. I know he does, too. We often work at different ends of the day, and the libido doesn’t work to the same roster.
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Since my female partner had a hysterectomy 10 years ago we have not had sex. In the year or so prior to the operation things had slowed significantly because she had a bad time with periods for a couple of weeks a months and then terrific tiredness from the anaemia the rest of the time. I did not have sex at all in my 30′s.
.
Never the less we have gone on the have three children in that time (figure tthat one out!) and have a satifying life together. None of our friends know because she primarily is a bit embarrassed (and they would be amazed that I could go that long!). I would like to have sex again, however, I expect we never will. I have never strayed, nor ever thought about it (not worth losing the relationship risk for me).
I’m not sure that putting pressure on someone to have sex when it is uncomfortable/ painful etc is nice and I have never done this. I would, however, ‘take one for the team”
We are lucky to have otherwise a very good relationship, I don’t resent her – it just is the way it is. I’m pretty sure there are a number of traits that she doesn’t love about me, but she never attempts to change them about me. Soemtimes its about being grateful for what we have and moving on.
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Hmm, pardon my curiosity and ignorance here, but…?
I’m assuming from your name that you’re both females, does female sex have to involve penetration? I also assume that’s the painful part of your sex life. Do you not have sex without penetration or does that not count? Or could you experience the penetration but not your partner to make it s sexual experience?
I’m sorry, I’m just confused as to how woman-to-woman sex works apart from kissing and touching.
Best wishes to you both!!
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Warning: Possible triggers. Brief descriptions of sex.
Wow, there are many questions you have there about female-female sex. I don’t know if it’s that appropriate for me to go into details here, but to answer your question on a general basis:
‘Does female sex have to involve penetration?’ No
‘Does sex that doesn’t involve penetration “not count”?’
Does hetero oral sex “not count” in your eyes?
‘I’m sorry, I’m just confused as to how woman-to-woman sex works apart from kissing and touching.’
I’m trying to not be judgmental but yes, your confusion is very obvious. I suggest doing your own research but here’s some basic info.
Do heterosexual couples have oral sex? Yes.
Take 2 pairs of female genitals. Oral sex, possible? Yes.
Do heterosexual men penetrate women by fingering them? Yes. Can a woman do that to another woman? Yes
Do heterosexual men fondle the breasts of their female lovers? Yes. Can a woman do that to another woman? Yes, of course.
Can a woman make her vulva come into contact with her female partner’s? Yes. It’s called tribadism.
Can a woman penetrate another woman? Yes, either by use of their fingers or by using a sex toy. Commonly used is a strap-on/and harness.
I hope that gave you a bit of info. I hope no one is offended by my detail.
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Thank you ajs. I’m with dkmum. Clueless. Hetero sex is everywhere. Lesbian sex is not So many of us have no idea.
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Sorry, I meant no genital contact of any description (unless you count some touching when the babies were being born and my partner received them into her hands).
Also DKmum there are many many options in terms of toys that can involve penetration
My point is that while neither my partner nor I have had any genital touching by another person in over a decade I certainly am not dissatified nor resentful, nor unhappy. I woudl never leave her nor stray just because she is not putting out!
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Thanks for all your insight Ajs!!
I suppose the point of my ignorance in response to Kath’s post was to in fact point out that non-penetrable sex is an option to not having sex for ten years. That’s why I wanted to clarify Kath’s definition of sex. And I suppose, if Kath isn’t experiencing pain that the penetration can be one-directional.
Reading Kath’s response I am now assuming (!) the sex she is referring to is female genital on genital sex, which I can’t even visualise, ha, but again that exemplifies my ignorance and lack of knowledge.
Thanks to Kath also for sharing, twice! Seems you have it made with a wonderful family.
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I agree with what Tracey is saying here, and think she has expressed it really well, as others have commented.
However, I think there is also some obligation on the partner to not take this gift, given in a spirit of goodwill, for granted. Or worse still – to make it an obligation.
I am one of the ones who used to feel resentful about the ‘duty-shag’. If I told my ex-husband I was too tired for sex he would be bad-tempered and sulky for at least the next day. (No matter that I had two kids under 4, a part-time job and all the house cleaning to do). He would make a point of ignoring me or else be openly hostile. Also, any physical gesture he made towards me (eg. a back rub) had to end in sex or else… ditto.
I felt it was easier to ‘just do it’, and keep the peace, but that really killed my libido. In the end, I never wanted him to touch me at all, since I knew he’d only be thinking what he could get out of it – no real concern for me. You can see why he’s the ex-husband now, I’m sure.
Now that I’m single, and the kids are older) my libido is back with a vengeance. My problem now is to find a suitable outlet for it! If I was lucky enough to be in a good, healthy realationship I’d be happy to have sex when I didn’t exactly feel like it – but it would have to be with a similar spirit of goodwill being exhibited by my partner.
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Trixie when I read your post I thought it was my life with me ex…..exactly the same! And my new partner is so loving and supporting, let’s just say that we are both willing and eager participants.
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You’re so lucky, Ladybug. I wish I could find someone like your guy. I don’t think I will though, not in this lifetime…
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I’m working through this currently with my husband. It is really hard because I currently feel like I am controlling sex but that is not what I intended. I’ve suggested that we just touch, hug, cuddle without the expectation of sex. Also I can tell when he’s randy when he says nice things to and about me and when he’s extra helpful around the house. I’ve explained to him that it feels like he doesn’t mean it and his ultimate aim is get his rocks off that night and it makes me feel pretty low. We are on week 2 of the being nice all the time and cuddling every night.
It is really nice, I wish we started this way 22 years ago. Our relationship was primarily sexual for 15 years. Without sex due to 4 kids and full time jobs and businesses and stress, our relationship started to fall apart. As we get older sex is going to mean less and the relationship needs to mean more.
I hope this makes sense!
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It makes sense to me! I think you’re going about it pretty well. I could never have done this with my ex-husband. It always had to be about him getting enough sex and he wouldn’t wait for anything more than a few days without throwing a tantrum. I used to wish he’d just leave me alone for a few weeks, and then I’d be the one wanting sex. But that never happened. When I left him I thought I’d never want to have sex again – I just wanted to be left in peace and not have the constant demands (and emotional blackmail).
After a few months of single life, I realised I actually still could enjoy sex and I’ve since had one fantastic partner, who was everything I’ve ever wanted in a man. We were so well matched sexually, as well as with everything else… I thought. But he didn’t want to commit to anything too serious… so here I am, alone again.
But good luck to you, Anon. I hope things work out.
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Mamamia, can I please ask if I’m the only one who finds it impossible to ‘like’ some comments today, because it looks like I have already done so?
This has happened to me on two different computers using two different browsers.
And the ones it looks as if I’ve liked, I don’t even agree with!! Argh!
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Not just you. This article in particular there are a lot of comments which are already liked for me.
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Also happening for me…. so annoying!
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Me too. I seem to have liked some unlikable comments today.
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Me tooo! The ones I can like have a ’0′ liking on them already.
GLITCHHHH
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Me 2
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Me too……really annoying…..haven’t been able to like some things really amusing
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Me too. Shouldn’t someone from MM be watching the site and responding to such comments?
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like all things it is a compromise- we are not sex on tap to please men we are people too.
I for instance like to at least perform once a week as to not feel guilty. but I will not always say yes to the creeping hand( I just avoid it by staying up very late if I really am not I. The mood).
I would never be up for a daily shag as it would feel like an annoying duty to finish the day or end it. it is my body and my life as well and I need space sometimes.
We went away for 4 days together and it was great as no kids to sap all my space and physical energy so I was a willing participant.
men have to understand mothers of babies and small kids are just not up to a daily shag. Not interested and too tired but having said that I think at least a weekly shag is in order.
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‘Not interested and too tired but having said that I think at least a weekly shag is in order.’
I’m not judging you, but as a man I wouldn’t want to get married if it meant sex only once a week.
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We have sex less than once a week and it works fine for us.
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I’m glad you’ve found something that works for you.
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luckily I married a guy who rarely had any sex at all so once a week is a bonanza- When you have two full time workers, two children and a house to look after sex is not my number one priority.
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I take the point of this article and I don’t disagree entirely. I did this all the time for the first 15 years of my marriage because my husband and I had different libidos (once a week was always enough for me, not for him). I used to force myself to do it 2 or 3 times. Lately, not so much. Why? Because the thing is the person who ‘doesn’t feel like it’ (at least in my marriage and the marriages of all of my friends that I have known during the past decade and a half) is never the man. NEVER. THE. MAN. So duty shags, to my mind, are the ‘duty’ of women only and we end up getting screwed (pun intended, sorry). Try interrupting your husband’s football game with a suggestion of sex and see if he’s truly willing to ‘duty shag’ you when it doesn’t suit him.
After a time you can grow to resent the other person for making you feel like doing something you don’t want to after a whole day already spent doing things you don’t want to, i.e. work, housework, errands etc. When sex becomes a chore it can be just as damaging as when it becomes rare. It’s not just doing something nice for the other person, it’s giving a lot of yourself emotionally and physically (we were just told weren’t we not to let them know you’re not in the mood, which requires some serious acting, yes? at 11 o’clock at night? Really?).
Sometimes you just don’t have it in you and I don’t agree you should force it on a regular basis.
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Yes agree that duty shags can fuel resentment, particularly if you feel your needs are not being met. Again I come back to willingness and frequency of sex generally boils down to other aspects of the relationship.
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My former partner had a rock-bottom libido, mostly due to the treatment for his ADHD and then depression.
It’s not always the woman who does the duty shag, and I still felt left out and unloved when he turned me away. Now I know what it’s like.
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Agreed. My other half basically had no libido for near on 3 years – jeez that was a fun 3 years worth of rejection, not.
It’s not always the woman not wanting sex at all.
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When dealing with medication or other extenuating factors, I can see how things would be different. I was referring more to the ‘average’ guy I suppose, healthy, young etc. I can only speak as someone coming from that experience.
My premise is that these duty shags are ‘usually’ the domain of women. I’d love to see some stats but we’re dealing with an anicdotal framework I think.
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Some men Just have lower libido. My husband’s one of them. So, I’ve been I the other position which is sometimes awkward as I don’t have this problem. I have to remind my husband that it’s been some time we’ve been intimate. So for him, it has been duty but as someone else has said, it’s about compromise.
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What a great bloody comment. I’ve been married 11 yrs but with husband for 13 and you speak the truth!
Nice job!
Now… Go shag your husband! Joking… Hahah
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LOL
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Great comment! Loved every word f the truth you wrote.
I’ve been married 11 years but with husband for 13 years and what you said is true for me.
Well done ….. Now, go shag your husband – kidding! Lol
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In my relationship it is ALWAYS the man who doesn’t feel like it!
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I suppose I must stand corrected–men with low libidos aren’t the urban myth I thought they were.
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Mmmmm, not so sure about this one. I don’t think signing up for monogamy entails having sex when you don’t feel like it. And I also don’t think it should be viewed as giving them a gift! It should be a mutually desirable, satisfying and bonding experience. In good relationships then this probably happens reasonably often. In good relationships if one person does not want to have sex for whatever reason that should be respected – in fact last time I looked we have laws around this . If the relationship isn’t so great, then the underlying reasons behind not wanting sex with your partner should be explored and addressed. Lack of sex doesn’t cause infidelity or destroy marriages, the underlying reasons do. This duty shag idea has the potential to make some women feel like there is something wrong with them as a partner if they don’t feel like it and say no.
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I’m sorry, but having sex when I don’t want to makes me feel like an object, like a piece of meat, and I loathe it. Over the long term in a committed relationship, it’s caused major issues because the feeling of ‘obligation’ or ‘duty’ really kills any enjoyment out of sex for me altogether.
I’m all for a little compromise, but sharing my body with someone is always a choice, no matter how long we’ve been together, wether he’s my boyfriend or husband or a fling.
And as a few other women have stated, if he doesn’t always get it exactly when he wants it and that’s why he strays, he’s probably not someone I’d want to be with anyway!
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I agree. Sharing your body should always be a choice. And this sort of advice assumes you have a loving stable relationship. My ex-husband was abusive, and insisted on duty sex all the time. I felt like an object, and the only way to cope was to separate my emotions from the physical act. Not healthy, and I imagine it will cause a lot of problems if I ever married again. The thought of being obligated to have sex makes me shudder. And my husband would expect the same thing said in the article- show on your face that you’re enjoying it too or you’re not loving me. I got really good at acting.
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I completely agree – I would give your comment the thumbs up but the function appears to be broken.
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You’re not the only one it’s broken for, Anon!
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Good to know! Thought I was in trouble, ha.
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There is a big difference though between doing it to the point where you feel like a piece of meat, and doing it every now and then when you don’t feel like it to help your spouse.
Having been on the other side of the equation (“the man’s side”), I’m telling you, that being constantly rejected by your spouse because they don’t have the courtesy to think of your needs and feelings, makes you feel like complete and utter shit. I tried for a full year to get something out of my husband, and he came up with a different excuse every single time.
I’m still trying to fix the damage he’s done, and he died almost 3 years ago. Please don’t be so one sided with this, because if the shoe was on the other foot, you would feel just as worthless as I do.
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Yep. This. Particularly as a woman where it can be VERY hard to make your needs known in the first place. Female sexuality is such a.. a concept we’re trained from birth to be circumspect about, even ashamed of, that it’s HARD to say “hey lover, I’d like some sex now please.” And when they say no..
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This is one area that we could all use more honest communication about.
I think its fantastic when a girl lets her man know that she is feeling naughty and there are plenty of non-verbal ways to signal that.
As for men saying no, I think its a myth that ‘men are up for it all the time’. There’s a difference between a sex starved 18yo student on holidays and a 40yo stressed out career man who’s been married for more than 10 years.
I’ve felt pressure to perform even though I’m tired, stressed etc. I’ve done the duty shag thing.
I’ve also had to console my partner that there’s nothing unattractive about them and they’re not a failure as a woman when I’m running on 3hrs sleep in 3 days and can’t fully perform. Not fun when all you want to do is roll over and sleep.
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(hugs) Cuppy that would have been hard. And just for the record, I think you’re totally amazing & not worthless at all. xx
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Thanks love
You are pretty damn amazing yourself!
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as teenage girls we get if it doesnt feel right dont do it as the absolute be all and end all of advice.
now as adults we are getting the opposite message?
Im not against the idea of being open to sex even if I dont feel up for it but only in the bigger context of my marriage. Why dont I feel like it? Is he looking after me too or is it just my job to make sure he’s happy? I dont think that the “duty shag”, and I hate that term, conversation can be had seperate from a bigger conversation about resposibility to each other in a relationship.
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I would hate to find out that my daughters are giving their partners duty shags. They deserve more than that! It is our duty to teach our daughters to command respect from their partners and only have sex in a loving and healthy relationship.
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I was in what you might call a “friends with benefits” relationship several months ago. A not-very-good-one.
I can see what Tracy is saying. But I spent too many times in a boy’s bedroom while he said “but why not? I just want to make you feel good, why won’t you let me?” And I’d think “ok, I’d better do this for him, he really wants it”, and spend the next 10 minutes pretending to be into it while he fingered me or whatever. Then I’d go home and cry and hate myself because I’d given in when I hadn’t wanted to.
Obviously, I wasn’t in a good mental/emotional place at the time, and there were other issues.
But sex or sexual activity when I don’t feel like it is – for me – a horrible feeling.
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You poor thing. Articles like this are wrong as they fuel situations like yours. Be strong sweetie and don’t let any guy make you do things you don’t want to do or are not sure about. You are not a prude if you say no. Expect to get the respect you deserve and you will find happiness. I know because I have been in situations like yours when I was young. I wish I knew then what I know now xxx
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agree.i too had enough of these ‘relationships’ as a young person… respect yourself, even if he isn’t, because you will only come out with issues from it long term if you dont. i speak from experience…
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Thanks Ladybug
Don’t worry, things got better. I stopped the relationship, and told him I wasn’t happy with how he was pressuring me into stuff, and how I felt obligated to do things with him. I guess one of the most infuriating parts for me is – I’m a feminist, I’m always saying women should be strong and speak their minds. Yet when it came to my own situation, I found it wasn’t that easy. I hated how easily I gave in.
But now, I’m in a great, solid relationship, where we BOTH appreciate regular sex and stuff, and things are a lot better
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Go girl!!!
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Really great article & I agree whole heartedly!
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Excellent article!!
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Can’t agree with this article enough!!
Plus the more sex you have, the more sex you actually want, so it’s a win win situation.
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I have always done this in any relationship – make sure your partner is happy, even if you don’t feel like it. Men stray because they aren’t being satsified at home. Any woman who thinks their men are faithful yet deny their men sex, are in for a shock.
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I find this insulting actually.
A relationship isn’t just about sex. It is a great, incredibly important part of a relationship, but if a man ‘strays’ because he’s not having sex at home, it says a lot more about the type of relationship they have. The emotional connection in the relationship should dictate their being faithful, not the amount of sex they have. And if the emotional connection isn’t enough, then he’s not the right man.
Also importantly – why are you specifically saying that men are the ones that stray? Women do also have high libidos, just FYI – it’s not unusual for a man to not be able to keep up with his female partner’s libido. Will she stray because she’s not being satisfied at home?
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I think there are different reasons for why men and women strayed.
I know both men and woman who have strayed in their relationship and these were the reasons.
The men strayed because their wives weren’t having sex with them.
The woman strayed because their husbands weren’t emotionally supportive, they found the emotional support in another man, and then they had sex.
Keep in mind, these are just examples that I’m aware of. Others may know of different reasons.
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I’ve strayed and I did it purely for sex. The sex came first and then the emotions followed for me but when I initially strayed it was ALL about the sex – I wanted, needed bloody good sex, wasn’t getting it at home, so I went and found some elsewhere. I’m not proud of it but I did what I felt I had to at the time and it worked.
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Interesting comment..would be interested in whether you are male or female ..
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“I’ve strayed and I did it purely for sex”
I’m female.
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Men and women both have NEEDS. If they aren’t being met – whether that’s emotionally or physically, then they will stray. End of story. If the emotional side is good but there is no sex, absolutely your partner will stray. You must live in fairy world if you think otherwise. Could YOU live off an emotional connection without sex for some infinite period of time, possibly knowing that you may never have sex again? If so, props to you but I highly doubt it.
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Yep. I’m female, and I couldn’t live without sex.
Caveat: I’ve not had children yet.
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Cool..thanx anon
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‘The emotional connection in the relationship should dictate their being faithful, not the amount of sex they have.’
Sex is emotional connection in a way for men. We don’t view sex the same way that you do. Sex allows us to stay close to our partners.
What would happen if men stopped cuddling or touching their wives? What would happen then?
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Wow! As a man I am deeply offended at the comment “Men stray because they aren’t being satsified at home”. The difference between Man and Animals is that we can reason and control our actions, not shag everything in site because we want too.
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