Post Natal Depression can be devastating. Even more so when it is undiagnosed or not treated. Today’s group therapy comes from Brooke who writes:
I met Bella at birthing classes two years ago. She and her partner were distant and non-affectionate and she never smiled. She also never rubbed her tummy with that tender touch that you have when you have a precious little life growing inside of you.
At the end of birthing class we all received a copy of every ones email addresses to catch up on the news of who had what and when and most importantly how.
After our babies were born the midwife arranged a catch up for all those that attended the birthing class. It was great to see everyone and check out all their beautiful babies. Bella arrived with her delightful little girl and still no smile; she had experienced a horrific birth and was not sleeping at all.
The mother’s group arranged by the hospital was pretty full (21 mums) so I decided to create my own using the list of emails we had received at the birthing classes. I sent a group email to everyone to see who wanted to catch up and received 4 replies. We met by the water and Bella arrived – still so sad.
Over the next 12 months Bella got worse; she was diagnosed with post natal depression and was seeing a therapist through the midwife. She was also having no support at home and had very little sleep. Her beautiful little girl did not sleep and would not eat anything. Bella took her to chiropractors, natural therapists, dieticians and doctors. Nothing seemed to work. She attended sleep school and that didn’t help either. Things never improved, Bella would always cry and put herself down. I tried everything and she would never accept any help.
Last week we went to a friend’s farmhouse for a few days. Bella was edgy before we even left. Once we arrived we raced in set up the porta cots and put the babies to sleep. Then it all went left field. Bella woke her daughter after 30 minutes to breastfeed her so she would sleep longer, she never went back to sleep.
After dinner, baths and bed my other friend and I relaxed and after 40 minutes Bella came to join us. She started to pour out her heart “I’m fat, nobody has ever loved me, I was bullied, guys use and abuse me’. Through the tears told us that she had attempted to slit her wrists twice.
At about 10.30 Bella’s baby woke screaming and my friend Tania said that she’d settle her. After 30 minutes she appeared with the little darling asleep. Tania went to check on her son and when she was gone Bella went in and work her little girl up to feed her so she would sleep longer AGAIN this did not work. That night she was awake nearly all night.
The next day everyone was exhausted. It was a sombre day to say the least.
That night after the same routine Tania and I were sitting in front of the fire and about an hour later heard the door shut. 20 minutes we went to look for Bella and found her outside with her baby in the freezing cold, crying because she couldn’t settle her baby and she was afraid she would wake everyone up.
The next day I woke early and got my son up and in the car. I felt sick…… on the way home I called Beyond Blue and a woman’s clinic in our area to make her an appointment. This was on Friday – I got her in on the Monday.
I informed them of her situation and asked that she be treated with compassion. The doctor gave her anti depressants and told her to put her child in childcare and sent her on her way…. I’m ropable, that is how a doctor from a woman’s clinic handles post natal depression.
I have an appointment with the manager to discuss this matter further because now Bella will not go back.
I am scared, Bella’s little girl never smiles either………
Help, I am not sure what to do next.
If you or someone you know is suffering from PND and/or you need help there are many organisations Australia wide that can help.
PANDA Post and Antenatal Depression Association Inc
Telephone support: 1300 726 306 9.30 – 7:00 Mon-Fri
Email support: info@panda.org.au
http://www.panda.org.au
Beyondblue To find out help in your area call Lifeline’s Just Ask information line on 1300 13 11 14 (Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm EST). Just Ask can also post you copies of any of beyondblue’s fact sheets on depression. More resources and information can be found on their website here.
Gidget Foundation promotes awareness of Perinatal Anxiety and Depression amongst women and their families, their health providers and the wider community to ensure that women in need receive timely, appropriate and supportive care. The Gidget Foundation has great resources and factsheets available on their website. http://www.gidgetfoundation.com.au/information.html
Comments
71 Comments so far
Such a sad and distressing story – especially the unsympathetic GP.
As she’s self-harming, she does need to see the appropriate Mental Heath practitioner ASAP.
Is she still in touch with the Maternal & Child Health Nurse, do you know? If so, she could perhaps refer her to a more suitable GP, who could do a Mental Health Care Plan and a referral to a Psychologist, or whoever is appropriate.
There are other resources such as :
Lifeline tel: 13 11 14
Suicide Call-back Service Tel: 1300 659 467
R U OK ? ; http://www.ruok.com.au
Raising Children Network Aust. Ltd; wwwraisingchildren.net.au
There are also many local support services some through various church organisations – e.g. Uniting, Anglicare; St Vincent de Paul etc.
There’s actually many more out there than in 1972 when I had a young baby who would hardly sleep, was very colicky etc. I suffered with PND , and to make matters worse, I had no extended family or any other support network, having recently arrived from the UK. It’s really tough when you are in that headspace! With love and light to Bella and to you, her friends. Take care of yourselves
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Not that this will be the priority right now for Bella -
I forgot to mention that there is evidence that having Mums with PND learn how to massage their babies helps reduce the PND symptoms.
e.g.
Effects of Infant Massage on the Mother/Baby relationship in Mothers with Post Natal Depression. 2000 Dr Katsuno Onozawa, Prof Vivette Glover, Prof Channi Kumar, Cherry Bond, Alison Hodgkinson and Lowell Herbert.
[I'm an RN, Complementary Therapist and Certified Infant Massage Instructor]
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What a sad story, and upsetting to hear of the GP treating her so poorly. Do you know if Bella still has contact with the Maternal & Child Health Nurse in her area? That might be a good place to start, as the Nurse should be able to advise Bella of suitable local support networks & practitioners.
There are other organisations such as Lifeline Tel: 13 11 14, or Suicide Call-back Service 1300 659 467; there’s also an initiative called ‘R U OK?’ – see: http://www.ruokday.com.au;
Raising Children Network [Australia] Ltd http://www.raisingchildren.net.au ; there are also many community based organisations that offer support to families and individual parents etc – some are run by Church organisations [e.g Uniting, Anglicare,] but you don’t need to belong to them to receive help.
Does Bella have parents nearby her? They could be of help – but maybe they are not equipped to do so; it can be overwhelming for families to deal with these kinds of situations. Sent with love and light.
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It’s so sad that mums feel like there is no support out there. I myself have been struggling with PND since my 1st son was born and fell pregnant with my daughter only just as I was recovering. I am currently in a mother baby unit specializing in PND. I am suicidal and have no hope that there is light beyond any of this and if it wasn’t for my littleboy and the support of the unit I would end my life. Every day I struggle and I’m only just starting to let people in and help, be there for your friend, even if u feel like u r harassing her, u may save her life, depression is a dark place to be and every day breaks your soul. Pls pls get your friend some help, she needs it xo D
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I hope your days are slowly getting brighter, I have been where you are, there is definitely light at the end of the very long tunnel, hang in there and give your little fella an extra kiss
. Xoxo. Ps. Stay at the baby unit as long as they will let you! 
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Apologies for the self-promotion, but Cathie Knox (of Gidget Foundation, NSW) writer Benison O’Reilly and I have a book called Beyond The Baby Blues hot off the press.
It’ll be in shops at the end of August, publicity for it starts soon. It’s only available now online, details can be found on my website http://www.seanasmith.com. Federal and state resources are detailed, plus a comprehensive list of treatments and many, many personal stories.
PANDA will provide so much help, thank goodness they are now getting more funding and so can help mums and dads all over Australia.
There’s nothing wrong with anti-depressants, they save lives. But treatment requires much more than just that of course. I never had a stay in hospital, but several mums I interviewed really found that helpful.
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PND is an insidious condition & as many of us who have had it know it’s caused by many contributing factors. Getting & accepting help, as hard as it is, sometimes is the best thing any mother can do.
I had Pre & post natal depression with each child, & with each there was that sense of self loathing, denial, anger, resentment towards my babies & sheer helplessness.
I suffered for years with my first & it got to the point with my second that I was not only a danger to myself but also my baby, which even to this day is hard to accept & forgive myself for, but is something you learn to live with.
The best thing I did was turn to a friend who contacted Mental Health services, who inturn got me a place that night at the Monash Mother Baby unit. The place was wounderful. The nurses there not only helped me, but also helped with baby sleep/settling & for developing the mother baby bond that was lacking.
Unfortunately the hosptal is limited in beds & from my knowledge there are only 2 of these units in Victoria, and these are very hard to get into. There are some out of hospital services that do help.
What we need Australia wide is to have more Mother baby units & beds available. And PND education/support services made available during pregnancy & post birth, as many people like myself would not know about PND & what services are available to help.
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this is why the National Perinatal Depression Initiative is so important. We need to increase awareness of PND, plus screening during pregnancy as well as afterwards. It may have been picked up earlier, and prevented the need for a crisis intervention if someone had actually spoken to Belle about it and her feelings and maybe referred her to someone sooner.
Please write to all your local members of parliament – state and federal – and request that further funding is given to the Initiative and increase support services for women (and men too) that suffer from Depression during pregnancy as well as afterwards.
So glad you are such a good friend and actually wanting to help – I was not that lucky – no one gave a damn, and i still suffer the consequences of that horrible time.
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Hang in there Brooke and just stay in touch with Belle until she can get some proper help. Call PANDA they are great. I have PND and it is awful – two and a half years on I have finally just got some help. I was in denial for a long time. partly because the one person I did tell didn’t believe me I just shut down and thought I was just a ‘slummy mummy’ and not a good one like the rest of the Mothers Group. The baby might have reflux or silent reflux – which is the same thing but silent is harder to detect apparently. please don’t leave her on her own. Like Belle I don’t have any support and being a mum has been the most isolating experience I have ever had. Yes hubby is around but really not much help and the sleep deprivation is a killer. Makes the depression seem much more dark than it really is. Stay with it Brooke and what a wonderful friend you are. Hugs to you both. x
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Just want to repeat how lucky Bella is to have you- there are lots of helpful comments below, so I don’t really have anything to add except make sure you look after yourself too. My best friend had PND and it can be exhausting for those caring people too. Hugs to both of you!!
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Both she and the baby are in great danger if they don’t get help. Try contacting the local maternal health nurses first as they will have the resources . I ended up having a nurse come every week to my house, and that was organized through the local health center, no fee. Also you can try the crisis assessment team. I would say she needs a stint in a mother / baby unit
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Nicely said Anon, couldn’t agree with you more – Take care of yourself and in turn you are taking care of Bella xo
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The only happy thing about this story is that Bella has such a good friend like you. I have nothing to add, but I do hope it works out for her, and look after yourself too.
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Brooke, this story is really heartbreaking. As someone without kids, it’s hard to imagine how difficult this situation must be for Bella, but I wanted to say how touched I was by your concern and support for your friend and her baby. I really hope that Bella gets the assistance she needs and that happy times come soon.
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what a great friend you are. a few friends have had PND, one quite severely so I can relate to some of the comments about people who pull away or become distant.
private health funds can support in-house hospital stays (up to bubs are 1 though).
Queensland has one of the few hospitals in australia dedicated to PND and they have trained specialists who give free advice over the phone, they also do hospital stays and counselling. the woman who runs it has an amazing story http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/bittersweet-symphony-in-postnatal-loss/story-fn6ck8la-1226060135889
wish i could find the online forum from this story where people asked her all sorts of questions about PND.
good luck with your friend’s journey, I hope she finds the light at the end of the tunnel.
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As a professional I would send her to intake at community mental health and go from there. We offer PND groups, she sounds like a joiner, so she would probably attend one, or a similar one. I would also refer her to the Ellen Barron centre (Qld) for the sleep issues once she was stable. Each state has a similar residential centre. The GP led mental health plan suits some as opposed to mental health or groups etc. Her GP doesn’t sound very helpful though.
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There is a four to five month wait list to get into Ellen Barron. Sleep clinics are great if you’re Sarah Murdoch and can actually get in to one.
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The thing I picked up on most from Brooke’s story about Bella was the phrase ‘has no support at home’. Where’s Bella’s partner in all of this, her child’s father? What is her relationship like with her own & his family? Is he unwilling to step up as a partner & father or is she trying to do it all & feeling like a failure? No amount of therapy can alleviate the day-to-day of living with PND if the sufferer has little daily support, be it from friends or family.
Speaking from experience, recovering from PND takes a lot emotionally & mentally. I know that I was very lucky in that I knew something wasn’t right in myself after I’d had my baby & I sought help almost immediately. I was also lucky to have private health cover & have had someone at the hospital where I gave birth tell me the name of a place to call if I ran into any problems. I spent six weeks in a mother & baby unit & it was the best thing I could have done for myself, my baby & family. It meant that I could be observed by mental health professionals & that my baby was cared for overnight while I got my sleep back under control, albeit medicated. I was prescribed antidepressants & anti-anxiety pills & was lucky again that the type & dosage worked for me. I attended a CBT course & follow-up group as needed for almost two years.
Don’t give up on Bella or her child. She sounds like she has a lot of emotional/mental issues aside from or as part of her situation. It takes a leap of faith when you are sleep deprived & anxious & overwhelmed. You literally can’t think clearly or make good decisions when you suffering from PND. I can imagine having attended regular therapy for so long (if that’s the case?) & still feeling like crap would be incredibly disheartening for Bella. It does sound like that particular doctor at that clinic was not terribly compassionate. Or that Bella may present herself differently to health professionals? Just a thought.
Good on you for persevering with Bella, she needs friends if she does not have a supportive family around who understands what she’s going through.
I do wonder, as jolee mentioned, if her child has some underlying medical problem with her digestion that stops her eating & sleeping well.
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She needs help now. Thank god someone is taking over. I had PND and it’s ugly and the lack of sleep makes anyone irrational. I hope you get the help,so you can learn to love your baby who needs you.
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Please call panda, they will help. I suffered pnd and couldn’t find my therapists. Umber one day, I cslled them and they tracked him down and got his number and called me back. Incredible people who really care and followup for those who need it most – mums and bubs
. You are a good friend, pleaser stay with her through this and make sure she gets the help, hugs to you 
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this post made me cry – I hope you find a way to help – the little girl should be happy, happy, happy and the mother should be too, it’s tragic that they both are not. until you find her help (and it’s wonderful of you to do so), can you offer to look after the baby for a couple hours during the day (and let her sleep until she wakes – babies don’t need to be woken to eat unless there are medical concerns)
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How horrendous. Do you have a good GP? A good GP should be able to help their patient navigate the health system in a way that best suits the patient. She can be referred via a Mental Health Care Plan (Medicare Item 2710) to a psychologist, a mental health nurse a social worker or a specialist PND support. Many of these practitioners will provide services that are bulk billed to a proportion of their clients so it is worth asking. In some areas there are specialist teams (I know in Wollongong we have a couple) who help women in this situation.
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I had PND with my first (and only) baby. In fact I’m pretty sure I also had it during my pregnancy as well.
At the time, I didn’t even realise I had it, mostly because I did not fit the ‘profile’ of someone who is likely to get it – I had a wonderful network of friends, a supportive husband and mother and was otherwise healthy, and so was my baby. But a few weeks after my baby was born, my anxiety began to get worse and worse and I withdrew from everyone and spent most of the day crying. I wouldn’t even leave the house for anything, and made excuses to all of my friends about why they couldn’t come over or why I couldn’t meet them anywhere. I didn’t think I had PND because rather than feeling depressed, I just felt incredibly angry all the time and just wanted to go away and never come back. I resented my baby for being born and would get so angry whenever she wouldn’t stop crying or wouldnt feed or sleep properly – so basically all the time, as that is what babies do! I wished I never had her, and kept asking my husband why we had decided to have her, as we were so happy before. I think I really hit rock bottom when my husband went away for work for the night and left me alone with her, and in the early hours of the morning when she wouldn’t stop crying, I told her I hated her. I still cry when I think of that and I feel so awful about it.
Unfortunately my husband didn’t recognise the signs – I think he just saw me as this horrible angry selfish woman. Whenever I would cry in front of my mum and tell her how awful I felt, she would just say that everyone found it this hard and that is what having a baby was like in the early months, but that other women just put on a brave face and pretend they are coping (she wasn’t saying that I should do this, just that I wasn’t alone).
The worse part was the incredible self hatred that I felt – I just couldn’t understand why I felt this way, when rationally, I could see that I was so unbelievably lucky to have such a beautiful, healthy daughter.
It wasn’t until my sister came to visit (who suffers from depression) that she told me I had to see a doctor and go on anti-depressants, because otherwise I would forever regret just existing and trying to get through the first year, rather than really enjoying this precious time with my baby. So I reluctantly took her advice and began taking Zoloft. Within about 1 week, I suddenly felt a weight being lifted off my shoulders, and my life had colour once again.
After I started telling my friends that I had PND, it was amazing how many of them said that they had suspected that was the case – but not one of them had said anything to me, or tried to help (apart from just calling me every now and then to see if i wanted visitors or to go for a coffee). I guess they all just assumed that my husband or mum was handling it, or that they just didnt want to interfere.
So I guess the point of all this is that you are a wonderful friend for getting your friend help, but don’t dismiss the anti-depressants. PND, like regular depression, is due to an imbalance of hormones in your body, which often can’t be corrected just by talking about it with a psychologist. And anyway, in my case, I didn’t want to see a psychologist, as part of my anxiety was with the effort it took to leave the house and breastfeeding in public, so the thought of booking in a weekly appointment just made my depression worse!
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why is she waking a perfectly sleeping baby to fed it for gods sake, yes and lexapro may help with the PND but you put on a ton of weight and you will never ever want to have sex again – its a sml price to pay for your childs safety and your sanity
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Hi been there , just reading your post on lexapro. I have been on lexapro for years and have noticed the same side affects…. Are you still on it? I am now on zoloft and wondering if they have the same side effects?
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I am on Zoloft for PND and have been for 5 months now. I have not noticed any change in my sex drive (its still there
) and have not put on any weight either. So far, there haven’t been any side effects.
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Bella’s situation sounds very serious and fairly dangerous for her and her daughter if help is not received soon. Having already attempted to slit her wrists twice is warning enough. Does she have any relatives around you could express your concern to (or her partner).
I live in NZ so I am unaware of the support groups and medical institutions that could help in Australia but what about Maternal Mental Health or something similar. I had PND with my third child and OCD with all of my three pregnancies (and postnatal) so I know what a living hell it is…. It would be great if her friends or family could give her some time out and take her daughter for a night or day or something so she can get some sleep – she might resist initially but if approached in the right way and starting with small steps…
Good Luck – don’t give up.
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i am greatful i have not experienced pnd myself tho indirectly experienced and assisted friends cope through harsh situations brought on by pnd. I however have experienced extreme depths of sleep deprivation from a bub whom finds sleep hard due to reflux(termed silent reflux) and results in apnea’s of varying lengths so when she does sleep it took me a while to feel comfortable doing so and trusting in my own instinct to wake up.. When we are sleep deprived we do somethings that seem unexplainable to the outside (like waking a bub for a feed when past the age of it being relevant, and that in its self can bring on days of tears from pure exhaustion) . For me its been 6months of 2 to 3hrs sleep within any 24hr period if i am lucky.. So i know the depths of what sleep deprivation can do.. Even tho it doesnt go into bub’s reasons for not sleeping alot (despite the dream feeds; it is hard to get good stable information on how to raise a child, they dont come with a manual and what may seem natural to one isnt to another that it before even bringing depression into the mix; some good parenting advice will help with dream feeding a bub), tho if a baby is tired they will eventually sleep.. My lil one however isnt able due to pain from the reflux/acid travelling up from stomach to mouth . I know mum is so lucky to have a friend to assist with the PND and fighting for her.. i wonder tho if something as simple as this has been missed with bub, as my bubs is silent reflux it doesnt present with the normal symptons expected from reflux – i never even knew what reflux was before my second. This maybe something just adding fuel to a already burning fire.. Both mum and bub are in dire need of help here before harm is caused to either … brought tears to my eyes reading it. heart goes out to bella… it is soo good she has someone fighting for her to get assistance for PND, past just here are the medications, use childcare see you later treatment…. ..
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Oh my this sounded like me, but I managed to hide it. I didnt look sad to anyone I cried a little bit. Then cried a bit more then I cried most of the day…but I wiped my tears away just in time for my husband to get home from work! Until I could no longer hide it from him and couldnt stop crying all night and day….I devastated to have to admit the pain, frustrations an sadness And worse the shame i was feeling!!!!
But thankfully my husband took me straight to my child health mid wife, as she was the only one who knew i was struggling but not to the true extend. She went with me to the doctor, and that afternoon I had a psychologist from the hospital at my door. They took my situation very seriously. The psychologist came every day after that for a week, the midwife also came arond until I was on my feet. Meet up twice a week with psychologist she was like this angel i could see in the fog, we ended up talking about alot of things for months. I had therapy for so many issues that were coming up. They all saved my life, the medication kicked in and
fog was gone and I for the first time I could SEE my son, and he was beautiful!!!!!!!
Get the help talk and talk more, I have had two more children and I know now the signs and straight to the doctor.
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I don’t have any advice that hasn’t already been given, but your mate is so lucky she has you!
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I think I saw Jessica Rowe on Twitter say to give the anti depressants a chance and I tend to agree. This is no different to a broken limb. It needs support to heal.
I had pre natal depression with my third child and as a person that thought seriously about taking panadol, to take an anti depressant was a massive step. I recall obstetrician saying ‘Jeanie, you deserve to enjoy the birth and first few weeks of this babies life’.
Like a broken bone, it takes time and support and sometimes extra pain killers!!!!
blessings!
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I’m not yet a mum so I can’t offer any advice but what I can say is how lucky Bella is to have a friend in you.
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As a longterm sufferer of depression and PND survivor my heart is aching for this woman and her child.
I wish I had known of PANDA. I ended up w/ an excellent psychiatrist but even so recovery is a long and bumpy road.
There are some critical steps for her:
1. Professional long-term help and maybe medication
2. Sleep – regular, unbroken sleep.
3. A good fish-oil supplement (min 300 EPA per tablet and then two morning and night)
4. Daily exercise
5. Regular social interaction with family and friends.
It is critical for her to know she is loved, cared for and thought about – social interactions and gatherings go a long way to achieving that.
Also ensuring she knows she is not alone in feeling like this AND most importantly that she will get through it, that it does get better. It really does.
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I have posted here before at MM about my TERRIBLE post-natal depression, so forgive me if I am repeating myself…
At the time I felt like I was drowning, I just wished I didn’t exist. I started crying hysterically when this gorgeous being SMILED at me… Desperate I rang the post-natal support group (none of the ones mentioned above) – telling them I wanted it all to end – I wanted to hurt myself – that I was confused and didn’t understand why I was feeling this way. I was told by the telephone counsellor it wasn’t post-natal depression because I wasn’t wanting to hurt my baby. WRONG!!!.. most women with post-natal depression DON’T want to hurt their babies at all. I finished the phone call full of even more self doubt. How could I feel so selfish after 5 years of IVF to have this child and then doubt where I was at in life and this gift I had been given??
My reaction was to somewhat martyr myself… we didn’t have the financial resources now we were on one income to seek private mental health facilities, I was such a ungrateful, terrible person that I didn’t deserve the luxury of outside help, that I was now this huge burden and didn’t want to be indebted…. to anyone – (incidentally in subsequent therapy I realised that these painful scabs came from old wounds, some from childhood, that I had not healed) – PND was the catalyst for these old wounds to be broken open
Friends and family could see I was overwhelmed my (now ex) husband found it all too hard – I was just high maintenance. I remember having an out-of-body experience when the family were having a discussion about a woman who drowned her babies and their disbelief at how anyone could do that or be allowed to get to that point… the outer shell ‘ME’ laughed hysterically at them and said – “why not??- you potentially have one standing in front of you now”… At no time did I think I would hurt my baby but I was just astounded at how oblivious they were with what was before their own eyes and they were casting judgement. No-one wanted thought to help!!!… I was angry and alone…although in retrospect I was trying to not let them see what was inside and hold it all together, but had expected them to ‘see’ it or at least sense what was going on. I think something would have been obviously ‘off’ given my behaviour at the time
One night it was so bad, I left the house, no shoes, just a wallet and caught a cab to RNSH… left to sit there sobbing all night. No assessment by a doctor – just told to go home the next morning as they had limited resources. Was given a number for a mental health unit to call.
Called the mental health unit and was told unless I was schizophrenic they weren’t able to help me… try a post-natal support line.. back to square one of purgatory.
I was ready to end it.. was trying to think of all the painless, gutless ways to do it.. if it was going to happen I didn’t want any MORE pain, just what I was enduring to go away. I clearly remember the moment when I found some inner strength, when I looked at my beautiful Baby Girl and thought about how sad she would be when I wasn’t there for all of the milestones in her life. How selfish it was for me to choose not to be part of her life as opposed to fate. (note: the comment regarding selfishness refers to me and my own experiences and is not any kind of judgement relating to anyone else).
Out of desperation I rang Trescillian who had helped me with breastfeeding issues to ask if they know of any PND resources. Oh how the universe stepped in that day!!!!… they told me they ran a PND support group – another one was starting the next week by trained counsellors – they arranged on-site babsitting to alleviate that pressure (or excuse). (at the time) it was FREE!!!… I went…. I fell apart some more…. I was given the unconditional love and support to help me piece it all back together.
My Baby Girl turns 10 in September – oh how grateful I am to be a part of her life, how sad I am to think I might have missed out on it because of a HUGE lack of mental health education and resources in this country.
Brooke, how lucky your friend is to have you and others, to care for her and help guide her when she needs it most. She may not be receptive to your approaches ~ Forgive her ~ she is in a place of great pain…
~ Perservere ~ She and all those other ‘lost’ Mums are so worth the compassion and support… My MeWeBug is a testament to that!
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Just on a side note – I have recently been diagnosed with Pyrrole (or Kryptopyrrole) disease/disorder which is also known as Pyroluria. It is as I understand an abnormality is how the body processes certain vitamins/minerals and it inhibits the uptake of Serotonin to the brain. It can also be exacerbated by taking certain Omega Oils….
It probably relates to my PND as the symptoms can mainfest themselves in times of stress. I went to see a wonderful GP who specialises in food intolerances/sensitivities amongst other things. She started asking me what I thought were more personality type questions and suspected I had this disorder. She arranged a test which confirmed her suspicions. This disorder is also thought to be hereditary and is exacerbated during times of stress. Quite bizarrely very few in the general medical community know anything about this disorder.
It is thought to be an underlying contributor to a great number of behavioural disorders (particularly in children) and mental illnesses ranging from depression, alcoholism, bi-polar, schizophenia etc..
It don’t want to over simplify it, but is a relatively ‘easy’ fix with getting the right balance of minerals to the body – usually via ‘vitamins’ mixed to specification via a compounding pharmacy.
My regular GP had never heard of this condition. My daughter has exhibited symptoms, particularly the sensitivity to light when we had her eyes tested, and the Optometrist had never heard of it either. The Pyrrole test is reasonably simple – a urine test – but it has to be taken in the dark, the sample frozen & then transported on dry ice to the testing lab in Queensland.
There is a lot of literature out there – these are just a few links – I hesitated about mentioning it here, but it may possibly help someone and I guess this is what these forums are all about.
http://www.kryptopyrrole.com/
http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/articles-content.php?heading=Pyroluria
http://www.safelabs.com.au/
“Pyroluria,” “Pyrroluria,” “Pyrolleuria,” “Pyrrole Disorder,” “Elevated Kryptopyrrole,” “B6 Deficiency” and other similar terms are all used to describe variants of the same basic condition: Most commonly called Pyroluria, the root cause is the production of too much “kryptopyrrole” (KP) or “hemepyrrole” (HP) in the blood.
“The symptoms of excess urinary kryptopyrrole first manifest themselves as behavioral abnormalities. Although children tend to be more easily diagnosed than adults, the symptoms are consistent: poor tolerance of physical and emotional stress, mood swings, depression, sensitivity to light, noise and other tactile sensitivities. Later symptoms can range from severe depression to chronic schizophrenia. Accompanying physical symptoms can include pain, seizures, even complete physical debilitation.
Tests for Pyroluria are available and inexpensive. Pyroluria can be responsible for a wide range of behavioral conditions in adults, including chronic depression, paranoia, schizophrenia and even certain types of criminal behavior. Historically, these conditions have been easily misdiagnosed. Thus, early testing is essential for anyone exhibiting such symptoms”
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PND is such a sad illness which is often silent and difficult to notice in ourselves and other women. Mothers truly need lots and lots of support. I suffered from it after my second baby. I think it was brought on by the crazy stress of having two very young babies under 2, husband working away lots, lack of support from people around. I told me mother and she laughed and said, ‘no you are not!’ My father said, ‘just pull your socks up and get on with it’. Very helpful eh. I was also very, very good at putting on a big smile and telling everyone how wonderful I felt when I was outside. Makeup and clothes can really fool people! After 8 months of pretending I finally went to my GP. I was offered no emotional support. I was simply supplied with anti depressants. Thankfully they did work and I was able to emotionally pull myself out of the sadness, anxiety and numbness I felt inside. It is not an easy path and harder to do with no professional help. I have recently had a third baby. Not one person has asked me emotionally how I am coping. It is insane how often mothers go unnoticed. Thankfully I am feeling OK this time around, well I have had my moments but feel OK. I am being kinder to myself and not expecting too much. I hope your friend finds some support soon with your help and can start to enjoy motherhood. It is certainly not all pampers adverts as it is so often portrayed- motherhood can be very difficult at times, a real struggle to just get through the days and parents do need more emotional support. We must reach out more to mothers. I have felt terribly lonely after each baby and I have quite a lot of friends! http://the-lady-lounge.com/
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having suffered PND Bella needs to get this treated…
And what may also help as sleep deprivation from a non sleeping child can make PND worse, i was recommeded a book by Dr Brian Symon (he treats children sleep problems not PND), called Silent Nights there is a great chapter in it called sleep basics that explains a childs sleep patterns how to overcome sleep issues, he has been granted an MD (PhD) in infant sleep and will do phone consults as he is based in Adelaide, (web site http://www.silentnights.org) many of my friends with both baby and child sleeping problems have been to see him and have found his advice very helpful, he has a great sleep routine to follow he gives out when you see him for a consult. I hope Bella gets the help she needs for PND, Babys sleep problems and regains her self confidence.
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How incredibly thoughtful and fabulous advice and links
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The information in his “sleep basics” is very useful and will be very helpful to many who are struggling with sleep issue with their babies. But, I have friends that have been to see this guy – he is also known as “The Sleep Doctor” and while he has helped some of them a lot, my friends with a newborn were given advice that I just couldn’t follow myself – minimal handling (no holding unless feeding), letting the baby cry from a newborn and comping with formula from day 1. There was no what I would consider “nurturing” type stuff allowed
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PND is a dark and lonely place to live in and many women suffer believing there is no real help out there. We want everyone to know that PND is a treatable illness with outcomes that can make every moment in life worth living. PANDA is the National Perinatal Depression Helpline which provides telephone counselling and referrals to community supports with expertise in this area. 1300 726 306 9am-7pm mon-fri
Every family deserves to smile…….
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PND always worries me. I think info for Dads is a big miss here – when Dads show up to the birthing classes, they should hand out little cards to put in wallets.
Lots of this information was given to my wife, at no stage was PND discussed with the Dads specifically. There was a two minute general discussion, but everyone sort of breezes through it because (especially with the first) so focused on the positives.
When problems happen (luckily, my wife didn’t have PND), I had a hard time getting info.
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The little card idea is brilliant!
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Have you heard of the Yellow Ribbon campaign? A similar idea for youth mental illness. It seems to be very effective!
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Beyondblue do have a “Hey Dad” booklet, which is all about becoming a dad and depression etc. this should be given out at all ante natal classes.
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I really feel for Bella,she was me only 2 years ago. I never smiled, I could not get my baby to sleep, and I used to hide away so that my sons crying did not interrupt anyone else. I really hope that Bella can find the help she needs. I was just very lucky to have a great Child Health Nurse who made sure I got help and continued to get help she was amazing.
And Bella is so lucky to have such wounderful friends, I know it’s hard and heartbreaking for Brooke, but please dont give up on Bella…you may just be the shining light in all of this for her and with your support I’m sure she can pull through xoxox
There are many groups on Facebook Bella can join that are private, I have joined 3 different groups and I have created a page for Mothers with PND to help them and point them to these places. If you want more infi dont be afraid to drop me an email to mumshelpingmumspnd@gmail.com and I can send you the links to these private Facebook rooms. They are a great way for Bella to release, and vent all the negative energy and thoughts she has.
Christina xoxox
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That’s so sad…I had PND but was very quick to recognise that I was not feeling at all myself and so sought help when my son was barely 2 months old. The Early Childhood Centre I attend were very good at referring me to places, who in turn referred me again. Whilst I had a very unsettled baby initially, the nurses recognised it was more my reaction having had a baby, than the baby itself, that needed the help. My situation was compounded by being new in Oz (we moved here when I was pregnant) and 17,500kms away from my friends and family. All I can do is implore people to seek help and talk about how you are feeling, I did and I’m sure it helped us both.
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I suffered from terrible PND with both of my children. I spent 2.5 weeks in a mother and baby unit and it made such a difference. It gave time for the medication to take effect but also through counselling and group therapy I was able to make a plan for my ‘rainy days’. I also met a wonderful group of mums who were going through the same thing and we still keep in contact.
Your friend needs someone like you because by the sounds of it she is not able to think or act rationally at the moment. Perhaps look into some mother and baby units in your area. Tresillian is also useful in treating the baby and the mother. Good Luck.
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I don’t get the timeframes here – if the writer met Bella two years ago at a birthing class, Bella’s baby would be at least 18 months old by now right? Well past the trying out a dreamfeed stage.
Based on what has been described here I would say Bella needs to go back to hospital and get in-house treatment. It’s probably a good idea to give up on the dreamfeed idea – it’s not going to work. Medication may also be a help. I know many people who didn’t get better till they started on medication.
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I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn’t wake a child ever to feed them. Seems like Bella needs some good advice about getting a child to sleep. I was absolutely clueless about how to get babies and toddlers to sleep and the right advice and instruction saved my sanity.
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Me too. I’d also suggest that she doesn’t have PND… She was ante-natally depressed also, and her description sounds like the usual depression, rather than specifically hormonally caused. Not that it matters, really. But antidepressants are often a good plan (been there, glad to have used them), and yes, some child care of some sort would be helpful, whether it’s occasional, long day, or just off to grandparents for the day. Or your place.
Antidepressants are often though of as a sign of failure. They are not. They are simply a medicine to help cure an illness.
A good counsellor in the end was the best answer for me long term. But hard to find, sometimes.
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Call PANDA, Call PANDA, Call PANDA (phone no. above). They are wonderful and will take action (making appointments, following her up etc) for the mother if she can’t herself. Having suffered from PND and having refused to accept what I needed to do at first, I can’ t speak more highly of them and their services.
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I should add that PANDA is staffed and run by women who have suffered or have been close to someone who has suffered PND. They understand the feelings of shame, depression and fear and there is no judgement. They truly understand the situation and will help carers and partners too if needed.
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Yup- I agree- PANDA is a wonderful organisation!
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This is awful. Antidepressants are a start but I would encourage you or her to call PANDA. I’m a volunteer there and depending on the area she lives in, we can refer her to a counsellor. We are also a follow up service and will stay in contact with her until she feels she doesn’t need our support any further. We have women (or men) who we keep in contact for months and months.
Aside from that, it’s interesting that you mention she never smiled during her pregnancy. From the little you’ve said, it sounds like there is more going on than PND however PND can manifest itself from our own previous history of how we are parented, isolation, lack of support, etc, etc.
Just an aside, PANDA’s helpline has extended its hours slightly – 9am to 7pm Monday to Friday and I encourage anyone who is having trouble with the transition to parenthood and needs someone to talk to, to call us. We are there for you.
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There isn’t enough help out there. I didn’t have a partner that could help me emotionally. My GP was useless. I had to find my own counsellors, which didn’t really help anyway. I am still sufffering nearly 2 years later, and I am not sure when I will be better.
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I think if I was Bella’s friend I would help her seek out a place in a mother baby unit. Here she would receive much needed rest, assistance and advice on getting baby into a better routine and professional counselling. I fear for her welfare (and her baby’s).
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Unfortunately, after medication, that is the first recommendation for mums with PND- childcare. It usually helps some, too, but in this situtaion I don’t think it’s near enough!
Maybe a GP is a good starting point? I had horrific PND with my first child, and got help when I was pregnaht with my second. I was set up with a service called PMHS (Pregnancy Mental health Service) that was covered by Medicare and so helpful.
At the very least, the GP can provide up to 12 Medicare funded sessions with a pysch, that could be useful.
Hope any of that helps xo
ETA: just wanted to add, it’s best if these services are accessed before bubs hits 12 months- it’s harder to access after that point.
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Alyssa – it is quite common for mums to wake their babies for what is known as a ‘dream feed’ the intention being for her to sleep longer. It’s clearly not working in this case.
Being a parent is confusing as there is do much conflicting advice – add sleep deprivation to the mix and it’s hard to think logically and to get any perspective on what needs to happen. It is SO hard to get good help and advice and very easy to fall through the cracks. It makes me very angry as I’ve seem it time and time again. Thank god Bella has a friend like this one who is trying to use the resources available. She needs to get PANDA involved – they are fantastic snc specifically there for women suffering from PND.
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That is so sad
I have PND (or had, I guess, I’m doing well now) and it can be so tough.
Firstly, while the doctor at the woman’s clinic really didn’t help her situation much (suggesting childcare?!), I do wonder if she is taking the medication? I ask because I resisted taking the medication for a long time and it wasn’t until I did start that things started to get better.
Also, you said that she has been to sleep school and it didn’t help, but I am surprised that she is waking her child to breastfeed? After 12 months she definitely doesn’t need to wake her baby. I’m not sure how you could approach this with her, given that she may take it as a criticism, but allowing her baby to sleep and get in a routine will help.
If her financial situation allows could she get someone in to help her with her routine overnight with the baby? Alternatively I had the Extended Maternal Child and Health service come to my house and help with routine and settling my child. It was lovely having that support – they came only twice, but it definitely helped. They will also do home visits for mothers with PND. (This is Victoria) Perhaps look into this?
Where are you located? Is it possible for her to go to a Mother Baby Unit? Or a live in facility to get help? I did this and it helped
My husband and I also received counselling which really helped our relationship. As part of this my husband and I also set out which tasks we would take on – eg. he does the bath routine when he gets home from work. Simple things really helped. Of course that depends on their willingness to go get help.
I think you sound like an amazing friend – just having that support is a big help. Little things like taking over pre-cooked meals can make a huge difference if you, or anyone you know, is in a position to do so.
I was lucky that there was a lot of services available to me through my private health insurance – does she have this available to her? I went to an outpatient group at a hospital and also had home visits from a psychiatric nurse. Home visits are good as it means you don’t have to convince the mum to try and get out of the house and go somewhere.
I’m not sure how much help any of this will be, but hopefully if I haven’t had any workable suggestions someone else will. Good luck xo
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Depending on what state she is in, their is mother and baby units at some maternity hospital. It is exactly for people like your friend. They give the mothers a rest and sort out the issues in a senstive manner. Maybe you can ring them in your state and ask what the procedure is? Ask by word of mouth for a new understanding doctor that is also going to be able to help out.
Goodluck- it is ceartinly a sad issue.
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Huge hugs to you & your friend. I’m so glad you’re there to help her. I know exactly how she is feeling as I was in the same situation. If you can, find another doctor! It sounds like she may need some residential help, so she can get practical help with her baby as well as support for herself. I had this with my second child & it was good. Huge hugs & I truly hope she gets the help she needs.
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I suffered from severe PND after a difficult twin pregnnancy and birth experience. It was overwhelming and devastating. Without the support of my husband I would not have got through it. I too was given medication and sent on my way. It took me a long time and lots of counselling to come to terms with my experience. Over three years later and I am still on the medication but hoping to wean off it later this year. I still look at other mums experiences with their pregnancies and births and wonder why mine had to be so difficult but at the end of the day I have two beautiful amazing little people that have made it all worthwhile without question. Support of family and friends is certainly the key.
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This is very confusing to me. I’m not a mother, but WHY is Bella waking her baby up when she’s sleeping? Especially when it’s not working?
Your story makes a point of this and doesn’t mention any other mother doing so.
Is this a matter of not only PND for Bella (who actually sounds like she’s suffering from a complicated depression that began long before pregnancy), but a need for sensitive parenting advice and heartfelt support?
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There are some books/experts that advocate waking a baby for a “dream feed” to get them sleeping through. This never worked for my kids, though worked for my nephew. This sounds like what is happening.
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I had heard of it before – but if it’s not working, why persist?
It must make her even more exhausted and exasperated than she already is.
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I was confused about her waking a sleeping child as well – especially when the timeframes given make it sound like the child should be nearly 2 years old (the writer says she met Bella 2 years ago at birthing class and then says “last week we went to a friend’s farmhouse”, where the waking the child episode happened). I understand that sometimes people ‘dream feed’ new babies but this is usually done just before the Mother is going to bed, not immediately after the baby has gone to sleep. Plus a 2 year old?
This is probably a symptom of her depression I suppose, that she is masochistically waking a sleeping child (when it hasn’t even had time to complete 1 sleep cycle) to breastfeed it, then berating herself that she can’t get it back to sleep.
Anyway, regardless of these details I am very sorry about the writer’s friend Bella and really hope she gets the help she needs. It sounds like the writer is doing everything she can for her friend and that Bella is very lucky to have her.
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I have had both professional and personal experience/dealings with PND sufferers. It is important to acknowledge that when a mum is suffering with PND (and exhaustion) they may not be able to identify problems or solutions. Some can’t even read a line in a book or magazine or recall the details of a conversation they had with someone yesterday. It is not uncommon for a mum to continue a routine or behaviour even though those actions are making their situation worse. One woman described it as “I couldn’t see through the haze…nothing made sense…I couldn’t complete the simplest chores.” There is a broad spectrum of signs and symptoms of PND so not everyone presents the same way.
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I agree. The dreamfeed after a certain age is the symptom not the reason/issue of the greater problem that needs to be addressed and that is serious depression.
I suffered from PND after both children and in both the lack of sleep, parental support (interstate) and partner support (he had his own transition issues) meant that I was locked in a pattern of irrational and illogical thinking that only medication helped dissolve. I couldn’t remember conversations, lists I’d written, or tv shows I’d watched. I was obsessing over details for routines and couldn’t get out of feeling an overwhelming sense of panic every time something didn’t go according to plan, so I really empathise with Bella who seems to not know what to do.
Medication worked for me, though I was wary about it at first. I needed my very good friends to help me work towards taking the first step as I was unable to do it on my own. You are a wonderful friend and you’ve taken all the right steps, so far. Unfortunately, there’s no quick-fix solution, especially as it seems Bella has pre-exisiting conditions that hadn’t been addressed adequately before birth. Try a mother and baby units at public hospitals if Bella doesn’t have private health insurance. Otherwise, there are very good private clinics that deal with mother and baby bonding. Good luck.
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I feel for your friend and you need to let her know she is not alone and that many many women go through PND. There are different paths and options for getting through this, and I found a combination of support from PANDA, counselling and anti-depressants worked for me. I can highly recommend PANDA. I had a stressful pregnancy due to complications, a difficult birth and was suddenly faced with being a full time stay at home mum after working as a career woman for 15 years. I developed PND and received little support from my partner who didn’t understand why I couldn’t just ‘get on with it.’ Fortunately my mother and sister recognised something was up and phoned PANDA on my behalf. PANDA recommended support groups in my area (I’m in NSW) and kept in weekly phone contact until I felt ok to go it alone. My GP also referred me for counselling under the Mental Health Plan which gives a substantial rebate on the cost of counselling services via Medicare. I decided not to take anti-depressants initially electing to try counselling first, but had crippling anxiety that would not subside. I ended up taking antipressants for 6 months until my anxiety was under control and then weaned off of them, I feel they helped me and I’ve not had anxiety since. I can only describe PND as feeling like being stuck in a big black hole with no way out. But there is light at the end of the tunnel and a way out. Now 2 1/2 years down the track I couldn’t be happier. Please reassure your friend that with the right combination of support things will get better.
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Sorry to hear the problems that are being faced right now. If either you or your friend would like some support dedicated to those affected by post natal depression, there is a forum at http://www.signpostingpndsupport.org.uk where they are fantastic and help you learn how to cope with daily life while dealing with everything else! They helped my friend a lot, think they are based in UK but have members from all over the world.
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I only discovered this discussion because I did a search on PND. The support through PANDA is so important as most have said and particularly the concern of friends such as yourself. I am wrting though to say that I have done a lengthy study on what I have called maternal subjectivity and in this I referenced a large number of studies that show high levels of depression, high levels of marital dissatisfaction and issues related to identity for women particularly after they become a first time mum. I have been working on an internet site at: http://www.maternalhealthandwellbeing.com where i have linked all kinds of relevent studies as I am convinced that the far too common experience of depression is importantly related to the social and cultural context of being a mother and/or a father today. And unfortunately the response is far too often medicalized through the use of anti depressants. This is a serious issue for Bella but also for many other women and families in Australia today.
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