Monty Dimond
by MONTY DIAMOND
Is it ever appropriate to tell off someone else’s child? This was the question I asked myself this week.
I witnessed a really uncomfortable situation involving a child being berated by someone who was not his parent. Then, only a few days later, I was shocked to find myself scolding a mini-human that did not belong to me.
The first situation took place in a lingerie shop. A little boy, about three years old, was making friends with a mannequin and her pretty lacy bra, while his mum perused the store. He was pulling and poking at things and having a jolly good old time. When the sales assistant spotted the boy she tersely yelled at him across the shop, “We don’t touch that, little boy”. He promptly recoiled his hands and started to cry.
His mother walked over to him while firmly informing the sales assistant not to discipline her child. The altercation quickly escalated into a ‘yell off’ between the women over the little boy’s curiosity for mannequin breasticles.
After flinging insults at each other for a couple of minutes, the mother stormed out of the store with her son dragging behind her. I crept out from behind the ‘Loveable’ underwear range (which provided a perfect hiding/viewing place) and walked out of the shop… sans new bra.
I felt a bit icky about the whole thing. It’s fair enough the sales assistant didn’t want the kid to play with her display, but did that give her the right to tell him off? Surely the right thing to do was simply to alert his mother and let her handle it? What sort of a grumpster yells at a kid just for touching something?!
A few days after witnessing The Great Battle of Victoria Secrets, I walked straight into another awkward scenario however this time I was the grumpster.
It happened at a friend’s place. While my little boy was lying on the floor sucking on his feet (gifted child), my friend’s little boy was playing near him. All of a sudden a high-pitched screech of pain left my baby’s mouth. I bolted over to the scene of the crime. My friend’s little boy looked up at me with a block in his hand and a look on his face that screamed GUILTY.
I glared down at him and said in an angry and raised voice “WHAT. DID. YOU. DO?” I scooped up my son but immediately began to feel uncomfortable that I had just told off my friend’s child. Luckily, my friend was more concerned about my baby than anything else and we both proceeded to apologise profusely to each other.
Without stopping to think, I had just turned into a fiercely protective mother hen giving a four-year-old her best death stare.
On the drive home that night, I was shocked to realise this wasn’t the first time I had gotten a bit lippy with other peoples’ children. There was the time I was at the movies and a kid sitting behind me decided to play ‘Fruit Ninja’ on his iPhone… he copped it.
Then there was the time I was nannying for a family and their little darling announced in the supermarket at the top of her voice, “You’re just like my Mum… but fatter”. …I gained immense pleasure in denying her a snickers bar.
Then there was the time last week when the next door neighbour’s daughter decided to blast One Direction at 8am on Sunday morning. I’m into Harry and Niall as much as the next kid, just not while I’m eating my breakkie eggs. I’m pretty sure I am now referred to as ‘that crazy woman who lives in our street’.
They say it takes a village to raise a child…
Well surely not all the children in that village were perfect little angels all the time? Are we so protective of our offspring that we won’t allow any other adult to help them learn the difference between right and wrong?
Surely it’s not a big deal to discipline other peoples’ children, unless of course the child in question is yours, and the other people ….. is you.
Katie “Monty” Dimond is a broadcaster and media personality. She has appeared on Channel Ten, Channel Nine, and Nova FM. She is currently busy being a full time Mum and loving it!
Have you ever told off someone else’s child? HAVE YOU WANTED TO?
You can read this guide to dealing with someone else’s kid over at our sister site, iVillage.
Comments
354 Comments so far
Pingback: Weekend Reading #13 | Melbourne Maharani
Oh man, after reading this article I hesistate to tell this little kid off for deliberately kicking my shopping cart. I thought it was an accident… until he kicked it again. And again. And AGAIN. I looked at him, gave him a death stare and he kicked it while he looked at me. OMG. I grit my teeth wanting to say something but I kept thinking about your article. His parents was there but they are too busy shopping. I almost decided to run him over with the said cart but thankfully he moved away.
loading...
I think the shopkeeper was completely within her rights to maintain the integrity of the store ~ but the way she said it changed the learning experience. The mother should have been keeping an eye on her son and not allowing him to touch things that don’t belong to him.
To be honest, I’m sick to death of kids who have this sense of entitlement because the parents aren’t coming to the discipline party. If children were taught to respect every thing and every body from the beginning, if they were taught the boundaries that we all should try to live by, their worlds would be better places too. As a former preschool teacher, I found that children love boundaries, they love knowing just how far they can go and they love knowing their parent is paying attention.
So in this case, I think the mother was the brat and in her misbehaving, is teaching her son that it’s okay to disrespect things that other people care for.
Yep. That’s how I see it.
loading...
My little boy is just approaching 18 months and I am rapidly gaining a new appreciation for how hard it is to make sure he never annoys anyone when we are out. I’m constantly after him to make sure he doesn’t damage anything or disrupt anyone else – but yes, people sometimes have to step around him when I can’t grab him quickly enough, and they will sometimes hear him shout out with excitement or have a tantrum. Some of these comments about ‘brats needing socialisation’ suggest an antipathy towards little children that extends beyond them doing any real damage, and more toward their being in public at all.
loading...
I told off two teenage boys once. I guess I am a bit younger than their parents who were ignoring their rude behaviour. I was suddenly sick of hearing these rude boys being disrespectful towards my husband and before I knew it I had told them both to shut up. They both looked shocked but did actually shut up, and I felt awful afterwards. I didn’t mean to but I’m glad I did.
The only other time was my husbands young second cousin. I guess he was about ten years old when he called me fat. This was in front of his mother who didn’t say anything. I just nicely told him “you shouldn’t say things like that about people, it’s very rude”. He never called me fat again! And he’s a lively 21 year old now!
loading...
I think it is ok to kindly remind a child of an appropriate behavior but to be angry, unkind or, god forbid, physical with the child is out of line.
A close fiend of mine was at this time caring for (she later adopted him) a child who had come out of the court system. He had been working with a child psychologist to overcome the damage of being in an abusive household. In the beginning he wouldnt even want to go out
Anyway, we all went out for lunch in a cafe and he (the boy was about four at the time) dropped the napkin holder thing on the ground. It was an accident but it made an awful racket. The cafe owner came over and gave him a terrible serve, like really yelling at him.
In an instant all that new found confidence out the window because of some horrible woman who thinks that treating people (children OR adults) this way was acceptable.
Suffice to say we gave her what for made sure we told everyone we knew what happened.
loading...
I unwittingly sat behind a row of kids at the movies the other week (ages 9-12?) as I was running late and didn’t notice until I was settled in with my maltesers and cup of tea (I know, such a nanna). They were OK at first but as when the movie was in it’s less action-y bits they chatted and rattled chip packets and one of them was thumping their scooter (!) up and down on the floor to pass the time. Really?
I looked up and down the row but couldn’t see a parent or “big kid” to ask them to be quiet so I “shhhhh”-ed them at every opportunity or said “be quiet” in a loud whispery voice, so I didn’t annoy anyone else (ironically). One of my pet hates is people talking in a regular voice throughout a movie as if they were at home watching a DVD and not teaching their kids to talk quietly either.
Anyway, at the end of the movie two women walked from the back of the cinema and collected all the kids on their way out! So there WERE adults with them, just not anywhere near them to hear their misbehaviour. Who does that? Any guilt I was feeling about being a “meany” quickly disappeared – I hope THEY enjoyed the movie.
loading...
I have honestly never thought that I’m not supposed to tell off other people’s children provided that I’m being reasonable about it.
I only really have contact with toddlers in my mothers’ group and really it’s mostly don’t hit each other, don’t do that you’ll hurt yourself type of telling off which I think is perfectly reasonable given the circumstance (being to do with safety)
However, I honestly don’t see why a shop assistant shouldn’t have the same right provided, again, that they are not being unreasonably unkind or physical.
Hitting or touching a child is of course not acceptable however in circumstance I still think it’s perfectly acceptable to physically intervene e.g. they’re about to really hurt themselves and short of grabbing them and making them stop. Having said that that should be the last resort and you should always consider physically removing your own child first.
loading...
Oh I always tell them off if they’re being naughty. Nothing wrong with it. Someone needs to be the adult – they’re only kids after all. Most of the time the parents come rushing over and we all join the chorus of ‘oh sorry sorry, yes, he was throwing/pushing/punching… probably an accident, but yes, no problem, now play nicely and be friends or come over here with me son, sorry sorry’.
Occasionally the parents have a problem with it but I don’t care. I’ll only say something if the kid is being naughty or threatening or bullying (boys!). Frankly, they need to be told if they don’t know it already.
loading...
The only time I’ve ever told off someone else’s kids was at our local park that has a duck pond. A group of 3 boys aged about 12yrs old were throwing huge rocks at the ducks and laughing. Boy was I angry!
I yelled out “HEY!” and marched over there brandishing my mobile phone. I told them in my best school marm voice to “STOP THROWING ROCKS”, that these ducks were protected and I was calling the park ranger RIGHT NOW!!! (Of course I had no idea who to call really ha!)
They look terrified and took off quick smart! There wasn’t another parent in sight so I don’t know if I would have copped it for “daring” to speak to their sweet angels like that. I’m just glad they didn’t call my bluff and tell me to eff off – which is what I was expecting them to do.
loading...
Good on you, leaf. I would have done the same thing. Animal cruelty is totally unacceptable and I don’t give a rat’s arse about your kid’s feelings if they’re picking on an animal!
loading...
Although, to be fair, from what I can gather, most MM readers who are parents are pretty good about that sort of thing. I haven’t seen many posts justifying kids being rough with animals.
We’ll leave my rant about rehoming when a baby comes for another day.
loading...
If children are putting others or themselves in potential harm, I will politely verbally reprimand other people’s children, whether I know them or not. Case in point, with my daughter at the park yesterday, two boys larger than her came to play on the same piece of equipment. It’s new at the park so everyone wants a turn & the bigger boy jumped on excited to show his friend. When his shoes were about 1m from my daughter’s head, I told him, ‘Watch out for her, please, she’s smaller than you.’ He replied, ‘Can you ask her to move?’ Note, no please in the request. ‘No, you need to wait your turn. She won’t be much longer.’ So they ran off to play on something else. Five minutes later after tearing around the park on other things, they’re back. Same thing, more or less. This time I said, ‘You need to wait for her to move’ as we were just about to done. He ignored me & started to keep moving in her direction. I raised my voice to a firmer, ‘did you hear me?’ This stopped him in his tracks & he moved off. We got off a minute later so someone else could use it.
His mum was with friends, they all had kids but I got the impression that the kid was a ratbag. They basically ignored their kids for fifteen minutes or so while they caught up. Ten minutes later he was ignoring requests to stop a spinning thing so a 2yr old could get off. This finally roused the adults as this small kid hung half on & half off the equipment.
I used to work with small kids so I will assert myself on behalf of smaller children, especially at the park etc where the older kids get carried away. My daughter is tall for her age so people assume she’s older than she is. She’s pretty well behaved & is supervised when we are out & about so she learns how to behave in different situations. It peeves me when other people don’t supervise their kids.
loading...
It is unrealistic to expect that simply by consistently disciplining a child, particularly toddlers, that they will behave. The world does not always work that way. Many children have behavioural disorders such as Aspergers, others are socially immature. Are there some parents who never pull up their children’s behaviour? Yes. Are they still entitled to go into a cafe or a shop? Unfortunately yes.
It’s called life and if you can’t handle living side by side with unruly kids, people with bad body odour, rude adults or loud talkers then maybe stay at home.
loading...
I think people in shops can be more subtle at telling kids off or distracting them. Their parents are paying customers so bes to be kept on side. The lady annoyed and the boy fondling her maniquin could have called the child over and asked him so questions or gave him bit of paper to play with etc- Sure the kid is being a pain but your rant won’t change his behaviour long term so the plan should be to have a good outcome without being rude.
Customer Service people- Don’t abuse your bread and butter.
loading...
Having friends who work in retail and who own their shops, I would disagree with you. They would prefer people whose children use their stock as entertainment go somewhere else. They can’t afford to have their things dirtied and damaged by curious little fingers.
loading...
I have been a shop owner and had plenty of kids visits with their mothers where the child had pulled and prodded at clothing on a mannequin to the extent where they have caused damage. A lot of the parents actually choose to ignore the fact that they are liable for their child’s damage to goods and are happy to walk out of the store instead of being responsible for the damaged goods. I can totally understand why a shop owner would reprimand a child that should not be touching anything in the first place. I know this is the parents fault and not the child’s but as a shop owner business is tough enough as it is without people coming with their kids and wrecking the stock.
loading...
I’m very careful where & to whom I make comments after some recent words of discipline slipped out of my mouth.
Out at a restaurant with my husbands family of 10 adults & 9 children: “please sit up at the table nicely” & “don’t run near the food” is apparently not something I should saying to the nieces & nephews, while left to sit at the children’s end of the table.
At work you see a child’s legs disappear up a ladder into the roof of the theatre where there is a 8m drop on the other side: “get down from there immediately” was apparently not appropriate & was threatened with a complaint to the school board. I’m sure they would have been fine if I’d said nothing & their 11 year old fell 3 storeys & broke his neck.
In the main street shops after being spit on by a 7 year old: “excuse me, that’s not very nice” is totally inappropriate & It was suggested that punching me in the face would be an appropriate come back for my comment.
loading...
Of course I would say something if there is a risk someone or something might get hurt or broken. And I would expect others to do the same if my child was the offender.
But as long as the tone of voice and choice of words was firm but kind. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said “Just be careful on the slide/watch out for the littlies/just wait your turn/please don’t hit/that’s too rough/don’t use those rude words here” etc etc to kids at playgrounds etc.
I’m a teacher, so it comes very naturally to correct behaviour in a calm and reasonable manner. Definitely no yelling, no physical punishment.
I think our communities would benefit from this sort of approach, in general.
loading...
I have told off another person’s child at a birthday party.
There was a Fuzzy Farm (like a petting zoo but with ducklings and rabbits) at the party and this little boy was given a rabbit to pat. He started spitting in it’s little face and screaming about an inch from it’s face. It was horrid.
I know rabbits are pretty timid but it was shaking like a leaf.
His mother was not impressed.
She can get lost for all I care.
loading...
That scares me. Kids are generally naturally good with animals, they like them and want to be kind to them. They may need some gentle guidance, but they mean well.
Children who are deliberately nasty to animals give me the creeps.
loading...
This reminds me when my daughter was around 14 months, still crawling and she went into one of those play areas they have for small children at the shops, I was watching her and two children came over to her and kicked her! she fell over and cried…well….I went off!! I dont know where it came from these kids were about 3 – 4 and knew what they were doing.
Their mother was there watching and said nothing, afterwards as I was leaving I heard other mothers say “my child has been kicked here before its no big deal” yes I realise I probably over reacted a bit but if you saw your child kicked by two older children would you do nothing????
loading...
By God, I would have had a go at them too!
loading...
Go ahead, feel free to discipline my child. They need to learn that behavior that is acceptable with mum and dad isn’t necessarily acceptable to everyone. I know the discipline I copped from other people had a great deal more effect than any dished out by my own parents.
loading...
I was in charge of the jumping castle at my kids last school fete. I told off a lot of other peoples children that day.
loading...
I think it is fine as long as not physical. I have certainly said things to other child who are not sharing; pushing children; etc. in a playground, especially when I’ getting my child to share; wait their turn; etc.
However, my sister-in-law got a little physical with another child I was babysitting when she visited and got angry the child drove a bike at her child. I agreed the child’s behaviour needed to stop and she has a right to stop it, but stopping the bike was one thing, the addition of bouncing the front wheel off the ground with each syllable when she chastised them was another (and inappropriate).
loading...
I personally would have let the shop dummy fall on him. Hopefully he would have learnt his lesson that way.
I once worked in a soap shop and they sold shower gel in ice cube plastic bags. One kid kept squeezing them repeatedly and ruining them. The parents did nothing. Eventually one of my workmates said to him (in an incredibly sweet voice) “You know if you keep doing that and it bursts, it’ll go in your eye and you’ll go blind.” Bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach but it did the job
loading...
The parents should have been charged for the damaged stock. The same as if a child drops and smashes a glass in a store. The parents then might teach their kids to look and not touch.
loading...
I was faced with this situation a few years ago, I regularly looked after my friends 2 children to give her a break. She had told me on numerous occasions that she had no problem with me discipling her boys if I thought they needed it, but I had always made a point of telling her exactly what had happened and how I had handled it, and I would never have dreamed of over stepping my role. I also tended to err on the side of less severe (for want of a better word) discipline, simply because they weren’t my children.
Her elder boy was 5 at the time, and he had starting acting out a little. One day I went to pick him up from school and he wanted to go to the shops, I told him that we were going straight to my place. He threw a huge fit in the car, so much so that I had to pull over to the side of the road in case he hurt himself. During this episode he yelled a number of abuses at me, including that he wanted to go and get a gun and shoot my face off. I tried to remain calm, despite being shocked that a child so young could come out with such violent imagery. I told him that I knew he was upset, but that wasn’t a nice way to talk to someone etc. When we got home and he had calmed down, I tried to discuss things with him again in a calm way, and he became very agitated, so I thought it was best to let his Mum talk to him.
When she came to pick him up I took her aside and explained what had happened, she assured me that she would talk to him that night.
I went to see her the following afternoon to see how it went, and she told me that her son had told her that he didn’t say any of those things, and as far as she was concerned that was the end of it. I asked her if she thought I had made it up, and why would I do that? Her response was that I obviously preferred her younger son and perhaps it was a way to get out of looking after her elder son.
I would like to add that I am now a mother, and I totally understand the maternal instinct of protecting your child, but I was deeply hurt that she could accuse me of such a thing. I loved those boys and had always treated them as if they were my own, but after this incident I began second guessing every time I had to discipline them. The 5 year old also quickly realised that my authority meant very little, as his Mum would over rule anything I said,(in his words, my Mummy will believe me) so his acting out escalted. Unfortunately our friendship suffered. The whole situation just made me incredibly sad.
I have no problem with friends/family telling my daughter off if necessary, obviously within reason. I realise she is not perfect and I can’t possibly see everything she does, and I certainly know that faced with being in trouble, she will sometimes lie (shock/horror!)
But I also know that unless my daughter is in danger, I will now bit my tongue when it comes to friends/relatives/strangers children. More often than not, you certainly won’t be thanked for it, and it could potentially sour a relationship. Anyway, everyone has their own way of parenting, who am I to say who’s right, and who’s wrong?
loading...
My friend used to tell my kids off all the time and it really pissed me off. The irony is that her kids are really naughty and no one is allowed to say anything to them ( or her), otherwise we are judging her parenting. I think as she can’t control her own kids she likes to think she can control other people’s.
Needless to say we don’t speak any more.
loading...
This article reminds me of when my eldest boy was six. We were visiting science works and he spotted a display in a glass case that obviously was of great interest to him. There were a few kids around the display and he squeezed his way through to the front, no pushing though, still, not the right thing to do, and ended up blocking the view of a little girl. As I was about to tell him to move a man came over and hit him on the top of the head with a closed fist. Boy oh boy, did I go off and the place was packed out. Basically I had everyone in the building believing that this man had inappropriately touched a young child in a sexual way. It was not a good day.
loading...
Wow! If some guy hit my kid on the head I would have gone off my nut! Your comment made me so angry at that awful man. what a jerk! I would be totally fine if he asked my child politely to move but to hit him? WTF? After all, if your child was an adult who got i his way, would he just hit that person over the head. Oh my gosh, I AM SO WORKED UP ABOUT THIS!
I hope he didnt hurt your child.
loading...
I think it’s wise to use your discretion and try to approach the parents first. In my circle, there are a few kids with autism and social behavioural issues and it wouldn’t help them at all to get in their faces about something, much better to have their parents approach it in a way that they can understand that’s on their level.
loading...
If my child was hurting someone else or destroying something, I wouldn’t mind at all if someone told them off in a reasonable manner, but I would never approve of someone hitting my child, as I would never hit another child, including my own nieces and nephews. My MIL smacks my children (and her other grandchildren), which does annoy me a bit, but she’s very traditional and set in her ways, and mind you, it probably doesn’t do them any harm.
However, my pet hate is interfering people. My son has always been very tall for his age, when he was 2 he was off the percentile chart and easily looked like a 4 year old. This often caused a lot of trouble, as people who didn’t know him expected him to behave like a 4 year old, when he was a typically developing 2 year old child. We were out at a shopping centre one day, and he was having a minor tantrum for some reason, and some old biddy snapped at me ‘isn’t he a bit old to be behaving like that?!’, I’m usually non confrontational but enjoyed giving her a serve and said ‘it’s called the terrible 2′s, if you have any tips on how to stop a 2 year old having tantrums I’d love to hear them’. She went red and stalked off, lots of amused smiles from the people around :p
loading...
I hate the preemptive telling off- I have had a few- One in a cafe where the waiter told me as we walked In that the kids were not allowed to touch anything and the pepper and salt shakers cost money and I would have to pay for them if they broke. Just lovely when we had only just calmly and quietly walked in. the place has the worst service ever but the food is so perfect I still go back.
The other was in a dress shop I used to spend $1000′s in. I bought all my clothes there because they were lovely and it is the only dress shop in town and I like to support them. They asked my son not to touch the mirror in the change room or leave marks on it. I thought that was a bit rude as he hadn’t been and if he did I think they could just wipe it clean again and keep their best customer happy.
if my kids are naughty go for it. One friend actually slapped my son once as she thought he hurt her daughter( he hadn’t – her sister had). It was slightly off putting but he did have a bad track record for hurting her child so I can see she just jumped to her child defense before thinking. I didn’t hold it against her.
loading...
Don’t blame the shops. Blame the parents who these people have to deal with, day in, day out. I guarantee you that’s why they have to do it.
loading...
Diana, my thoughts exactly – I can’t see the issue in disciplining someone else’s kid/s. Fact is, people other than the parents wouldn’t be disciplining these ill-mannered, misbehaving kids if the parents were bloody well doing it in the first place. I get so fed up with the fact that I can’t go to any public venue without having to put up parents who let their kids behave like baboons on crack.
loading...
Yes!! Our local bakery has a large glass display counter, like most bakeries, and when my kids were younger I used to tell them not to touch the glass, the shop assistants dont want to wipe your finger prints off it, each time we went in. They always used to thank me for that because they told me kids would do it all the time, and some people would let kids lick the glass and smear snot down it. Disgusting!
loading...
But it is you asking your kids- If they were standing nicely not touching the glass and behaving don’t you think it would be rude to tell them off just in case?
And if they do and the parent’s don’t tell them off the parents are rude. Still doesn’t make good business sense to tell them off- just wipe it when then leave and have a mutter.
loading...
Fair enough if they were doing nothing wrong.
I can understand what you mean.
I had something similar happen recently. When we go out at night we leave our kids with a babysitter or grandparents. We want to enjoy our night out and our kids need to be in bed by 8pm.
So we received an invitation to a friends 40th. At the bottom it had in handwriting ‘No kids please, adults only. Thankyou’. I was offended by that because I am not the sort of person who would take my kids to an adults party at night anyway. And I felt like we had been targeted as the sort of people who would turn up with uninvited children. It was especially irritating as the people hosting the party take their kids with them everywhere at all hours whether they’re invited or not.
I want to send my reply and say that we would have never considered bringing our children anyway, who do you think we are????
loading...
So it is ok for shop people to abuse customers who haven’t done anything wrong just because other kids have? If my kids were breaking/touching/ wrecking I would understand but behaving and still getting told off is bad manners and bad business.
Particularly in a small town with mainly young families who talk. These people are you clientele and pay your bills and deserve to be treated with respect.
Rude shop assitants do not draw repeat business and create a pleasant atmosphere.
loading...
Sorry, no, if you’re in a shop and your kid is destroying the display, and you’re not doing anything about it, then we have a right to tell them off. Even if they’re just fiddling, we’re still allowed to ask them nicely to ‘stop that’, because so many mothers don’t!!
Regards,
Every retail worker ever
loading...
I just offer the kids a stamp or a sticker and distract them while their paretns shop- They are paying customers afterall.
Might bitch about the little shits after they leave though1
loading...
That’s not your job. You shouldn’t have to entertain or distract a customer’s unattended child.
loading...
It’s quite an interesting conundrum, isn’t it?
I have a big family, so I’m used to being around a lot of kids of all different ages. We all get along really well, and there haven’t really been any issues that I am aware of, although I can see how they could arise. I think there is a difference between telling a kid not to do something for their own safety, and telling them off, Tiger Mother-style.
I have occasionally told kids to stop doing things, like jumping on couches (gently but firmly), and made them stop doing things straight away that could be dangerous (by almost yelling). I think it’s about doing everything with love.
But you’re right, if you work in a shop, you should be talking to the kid’s parents, not yelling at the kid.
loading...
So interesting. I think the tricky thing here is that we all have different ideas about what is acceptable behaviour.. But I do think there are some absolutes around not hurting other children. I told a child off the other day because he was about to throw a handful of bark/dirt at a bunch of children on a giant swing. I called out across the playground, ‘No. We don’t throw dirt in the park’…
I think including the word ‘we’ is a good tactic, because it lets other adults know that you feel a sense of community.. Even better if you can kerp a calm tone and speak confidently.. and direct it at everyone rather than singling out the perpetrator.
I
But just last week
loading...
There is a mother in my mother’s group who has told my 13-month old daughter off on 3 occasions recently. I find it very upsetting as she has done it in front of me and for no good reason. Her same age child is extremely sensitive and cries whenever a child touches her, even very gently. But instead of attending to her own child’s issue she automatically tells my daughter off for not being gentle enough. It is really starting to annoy me especially as it seemed to upset my daughter for the remainder of the afternoon today & she really had not done anything wrong. I don’t want her natural curiosity and confidence to be effected by this. I’m really starting to not want my daughter being in the company of this little child & her mother but I know I should just address it upfront. Any thoughts?
loading...
Yeah, say something. It’s not everyone else’s fault her kid gets her knickers in a knot when another kid touches her. I felt so sorry for my daughter seeing that happen to her a couple of times. She is uber social and curious too, and on both occasions she literally just walked up and touched the other kids in an attempt to be friendly and play, but they started wailing and ran to Mummy/carer. So K was left standing there not knowing what she’d done. At least those around had the good sense to tell her it wasn’t anything she’d done wrong.
If the other Mum carries on, make a point of telling your daughter (or any other little ones caught in it) that they haven’t done anything wrong and it’s OK. There’s a big difference between saying “gentle, gentle” when all the kids are all over each other (our playgroup ranges in age these days from about 13 months to about 17 months) and telling a toddler off for doing what is normally perfectly fine.
loading...
Glad to hear your experience Kris 2040. Thankyou for replying
loading...
Unfortunately, in a situation like that it’s a matter of perspective. Parents notoriously lack perspective on their own kids’ behaviour. So while it is certainly possible she’s overreacting, it’s also possible that what you call curiosity and confidence can be seen as obnoxious or aggressive to someone else. Think about it.
loading...
Great suggestion. My husband always reminds me that what we think is cute behaviour in our kids can be considered bratty pain in the arse behaviour to someone who doesnt love them.
loading...
Yeah I was expecting someone to give that response which I think is fair enough given the detail provided, but I can assure you there was no pushing or aggressive or obnoxious behaviour, just gentle touching/stroking. I would have no problems with the situation if the behaviour was in any way inappropriate or aggressive.
loading...
That was exactly what happened with K too – just touching, featherlight, and they just get freaked out by another kid being in their space or something.
loading...
My child is that sensitive one, and it’s hard. She doesn’t really like other kids in her personal space, but has experienced some pretty rough treatment, but also a lot of just gentle touching. She’s not a fan of either and depending on her mood/tiredness levels sometimes loses it. If the other child has been gentle and well meaning, I just say to them, sorry sweetie, Claudia’s a bit tired today so it might be better to leave her alone/not touch her. If your child is the one touching the sensitive child, I’d say to your child, might be better not to touch x today as she doesn’t like it. It’s not a lot of fun being the sensitive child’s mother either I can tell you! 13 months is tough though, it gets easier as they get older and understand more.
loading...
I would imagine too that you don’t want the kids to learn not to go near your little girl, either, though, right? They still need to learn how to play together and interact. By not carrying on about it (like Charlotte’s playgroup mum seems to be) it stops it being a thing and is just a case by case reaction – other days they might be less tired or in a better mood and cope OK with it? One of the littlies I mentioned is OK now, she’s more used to it, but everyone has their “LEAVE ME ALONE” days. It’d be better to approach it like that than expect everyone to walk on eggshells all the time.
loading...
make sure you bring it up when it is not actually happening, so the mother is not already on the defensive.
don’t ever say that her child has a problem (automatic Mummy freeze), but maybe offer a conversation opening where the Mum can talk about it – she is probably worried about it herself.
loading...
I actually think it being brought up when nothing is happening would put someone more on the defensive – because it shows you’ve been thinking about and planning it rather than just responding to something happening in the moment – I think it’d be easier to cop “It’s OK, xx didn’t understand you were just being friendly, how about we go over and play with yy instead”.
loading...
I don’t mind others disciplining my children as long as it’s done in a firm but gentle manner (and for a good reason). I do the same when someone else’s kid is getting on my nerves with bad behaviour and I do it with in a normal voice, with a smile on my face. If I can’t smile, I remove myself and my children from the situation as fast as possible.
loading...
A very good friend was over with her kids and her son (3yo) punched my husband twice in the chest. Without even thinking I reacted with the boy exactly as I do with my own kids. I said firmly “we don’t hit people”, picked him up and moved him away from the game they were all playing and said “you need to stay away until you can play nicely.” He of course cried and went to my friend. She was really embarrassed that her son had been aggressive and I was embarrassed that I’d disciplined him. She didn’t mind that I’d done so, thank goodness. Luckily it wasn’t awkward for long. Thank goodness for good friends!
loading...
Havent read the comments yet, but in regad to the child …”He was pulling and poking at things and having a jolly good old time” where was the bloody mother? Our children were taught from the start “look with your eyes not your hands” How rude not to supervise your child.
loading...
I am perfectly fine to have a few firm words to my friends kids if necessary. And I’m cool too if my daughter needs to be pulled in a little bit too. However, strangers kids are another story! My biggest peeve at moment are those kids trolleys you get at Coles, bunnings etc. my daughter, who is nearly 3, knows she gets one warning. If she hits something or someone when she has it, she’s got 1 chance then it goes back. Many a tantrum over the rule at beginning but it works a treat now!
Other parents………grrrrrrrrr! They are not racing cars!!!! After being hit in the ankle one too many times (my daughter had already lost her privilege of it that day), I told the little mr 4 yr old kid to “please stop running into me”. His mum’s response “he’s fine, just ignore him”. My retort “how about you stand in front of my trolley, I’ll run into your ankles repeatedly and see if you can ignore it!”
Arrgggghhhhhhhh!!!!
loading...
And IKEA. Argh.
loading...
I never really minded friends, or even complete strangers pulling up my kids on their behaviour if they needed to, but tone and how they actually did it was the big thing.
It’s unacceptable to hit others children fullstop. If you politely, but firmly speak to them, fair enough. It’s what I have to do occasionally when kids are going batshit in my clinic room.
Parents these days are really no more inept than they ever where, maybe just in different ways.
loading...
We were at a party not long ago and my younger son (4) followed some older kids (8 year olds) into the house (the party was in the back yard). Literally 60 seconds had passed and he came back to me with tears in his little eyes. Turns out his hair was pulled and he was dragged back into the yard by the father of the house (a self-confessed child disliker) for ‘going into the house’. I was rope-able, and we left the party not long after. As we left I made a comment apologising for my son ‘doing something he wasn’t supposed to, and the man at least had the good grace to look embarrassed. If my son was doing something destructive or disrespectful, I am OK with a ticking off from someone else if I am not around (because of course if I was around I would take this responsibility myself), but hair pulling for taking a step inside the back door when other kids were doing the same thing? NOT OK!!! Not getting over that one in a hurry. Physical violence is never OK. Thoughts?
loading...
I absolutely agree with you if it did happen that way. Did anyone else see it, though? Are you sure it happened the way your son thinks/says it did?
loading...
I also own an antique store. I also worked in child are for 30 years. I have ‘the voice’…. It works. It works with children & adults & is a powerful tool. It’s not a shout, I use no swear words…it is hugely effective. Now if I could just stop those ‘grandma had one of these’ comments, I would be a happy girl. It’s my stuff, not theirs…it’s all about respect. Some of my favourite customers have been children.
loading...
Yep, Debs, I have the ‘voice’ too. Within my circle of friends all the kids listen to me!! Haha!! Sometimes even more so than there own parents!
loading...
I have “the look” and sometimes it sneaks out of me without me asking it to but it works. I work in health and have asked children not do something specific in my consulting room. After they do it agin “the look” stops them. I only ever have to resort to that if the parent is not attempting to keep the child behaving reasonably.
My children were always told to use their eyes for looking and put their hands behind their backs in “treasure stores” We never had a problem.
loading...
A few weeks ago, on the way home from the beach, we stopped at the local bottle shop and I waited in the car while my husband dashed in to buy some booze. There were a bunch of 14-16yo’s on foot and bikes hovering/hanging across the road in our mild, quiet English suburb. They shouted something fairly banal to my husband about getting cold feet because he ducked in without shoes on. But then as an elderly man came out of the shop, one of the shouted ‘smackhead!’ and the other boys sniggered. Well, I just thought enough of that cheek and hopped out of the car and stormed to the footpath and said loud enough (not shouting), “You kids need to disperse, and just get away from here!” hahahaha Yes, I used the word, ‘disperse’, and do you know what? They did! Quick smart! Boy, did I feel proud of myself, doing my bit for community harmony…haha. Not so sure I would’ve done it some other suburbs, but this one’s very nice, so I felt safe taking them on
loading...
reminds me of this cartoon. some parents protect their children to the child’s own detriment
loading...
I am usually grateful when other adults let my son know if his behavior is unacceptable, but the woman who grabbed my 2 year old and shouted in his face at the top of her voice went over the top. Firstly, she didn’t give me a chance to discipline him, secondly, I don’t want to teach him to fight fire with fire, and thirdly, you NEVER lay your hands on another persons child like that. I’m still fuming.
loading...
Lulu, I understand where you’re coming from, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but are you one these modern day parents who discipline their child in that pathetic way of “now you were a very naughty boy and mummy doesn’t like that behaviour blah blah blah” or do you actually discipline your child by being very firm and telling your child no? I’m not condoning that woman’s actions but she’s probably just as fed up as I am with these modern day parents who refuse to say no and discipline their child firmly. That woman had probably been putting up with other people’s rude, undisciplined children all day and yours was probably the final straw. When you say she didn’t even you give time to discipline your child, how much time went by? Had your child misbehaved and you ignored the bad behaviour? I’m not criticising you, I’m just curious as to when you say that the woman didn’t give you time to discipline your child – it’s just that I’ve been parents let their kids get away with stuff in public and then only discipline them when other people have a gutful and say something. That’s all.
loading...
Ummm, what on earth could a two year old have done to deserve someone grabbing him and screaming in his face??? That is NOT OK!! I don’t care what he did, he’s two ffs!
loading...
Um, not trying to be funny but where are all of these rude, undisciplined children? I am a stay at home mum so find myself day in and out where there are children and honestly I can’t remember the last time I was offended or somehow inconvenienced by someone else’s “naughty” child. Either I only hang out in places where the parents are spectacularly good or the children incredibly well behaved or I am the most chilled out women in the world or I am not constantly on the look out for other peoples imperfections. I reckon it is probably the latter.
And no, it isn’t because I am one of those new age parents who think it is cute when my child draws with crayons on the restaurant walls. I never had a problem with a stranger’s kid before I had my first baby.
loading...
umm, i certainly don’t think the kid deserved it at all! i was more wondering how many badly behaved kids this woman had come across to make her react like that. Like I said, i don’t think the deserved – nowhere have i said that.
Arlycarly, that’s great if your kids are well-behaved. And I certainly don’t spend my time on the lookout for kids’ imperfections. I live in a regional area with a lot of low socio-economic areas and middle class workers. I’ve just noticed that when I’ve been in the low socio-economic areas the kids are feral with no discipline and the parents are usually drug addicts. As for the middle class parents – I can’t remember the last time I went to a cafe to relax over lunch/coffee etc and not had to put up with parents who think it’s perfectly acceptable for kids to climb on tables and chairs and run around the cafe. And the parents do nothing. Then when a waiter or another customer tells the child to sit down, the parents think they have the right to be offended. I’m sorry, but if parents want to take their kids out in public, they have a responsibility to teach them how to behave.
loading...
Where are all these rude children? At school. I’m a school teacher. They’re out there!
loading...
Just go to a shopping centre – usually you can hear them screaming that piercing squealing noise until you see them in prams sucking on sugar donuts or soft drinks.
loading...
You know what Lisa? It’s not actually your business how someone else disciplines their child. I am ‘one of those modern day parents’ you talk of (I assume you mean one that does not physically assualt their child?), except I would also never tell my kid ‘you’re naughty’ either. So shoot me.
I have raised 3 children this ‘modern way’ and yanno what? They are good kids. Normal kids.
As for other people disciplining my children, they are welcome to politely address them and ask them not do do things (that directly affect them or their property), or they can ask me to address the issue. They absolutely cannot raise their voice or touch my child.
loading...
You know what Shady? It is my damn business. I’m tired of having my outings ruined by some brat whose parents won’t curb their bad behaviour. And if i’m in a cafe trying to enjoy a nice lunch or breakfast and some kid is running feral, it is my business to say something, especially when the parents refuse to do anything about it. I’m tired of parents having the “it takes a village to raise a child” but most parents, when the village says something, don’t like it. Parents can’t have it both ways. Frankly, if parents disciplined their own children in the first place and taught them right from wrong and that they shouldn’t touch things in shops etc, instead of letting them do what they want because they’re “just exploring” or “expressing themselves”, people wouldn’t be telling off other people’s kids. If parents just did their job and raised their kids with manners and taught them how to behave in public, this wouldn’t even be an article in the first place. Congratulations on raising three great kids. I don’t even know why you’re so offended Shady – it’s quite clear that my comments are about parents who don’t discipline their kids. Why the hell are parents like you getting so defensive and offended if you do discipline your kids?
loading...
Your tone in your posts is pretty agressive. That’s probably what’s putting people offside.
loading...
My goodness. Such anger Lisa. Let’s get some perspective.
Kids are kids. I agree parents should not let their children destroy a place, but kids have lots of energy and it’s a wonderful thing. The world is not set up for them.
loading...
Faybian, there is nothing aggressive about my posts. People are reading it and taking offence simply because I say that children should be disciplined. No wonder there are so many brats around, a lot of parents today seem to think that kids shouldn’t be pulled into line.
loading...
My goodness Anna! Are you suggesting that because the world is not set up for kids they shouldn’t be pulled into line and taught how to behave socially? That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. The world is not set up for them – well they have to learn how to live in the world, that is the whole point of discipline from a young age, to teach kids how to integrate into society. Are you suggesting that kids run riot untill they come of age and then have parents tell them when they’re 18 how to behave, when it’s too late? Seriously Anna, I hate to think how badly behaved your kids are if that’s your attitude.
loading...
It doesn’t matter if she’d had to deal with a million badly behaved children that day – grabbing a child and shouting in their face is never ok under any circumstances. The only time grabbing someone else’s child is ever ok is if you’re doing it to prevent harm to the child.
loading...
Exactly. Other kids’ behaviour shouldn’t be taken out on one of them.
loading...
Believe me, my boy knows I mean business when I say No. I don’t mess around with unacceptable behavior. He pushed the other woman’s child ( to my knowledge he’s never done that before), and he was in the wrong. There’s no excuse for it other than he’s two. She was an adult. I was on the other side of the room, she was right next to him. She got in first.
loading...
That is absolutley unacceptable! How dare she.
Also everyone needs to remember that there are many children with autism and other conditions who look completely normal but can go beserk at certain noises etc.
My friend who is a wonderful mother has a little boy who you could never tell has autism and he has panic attacks and people are just terrible, really awful to her.
loading...
What had he done for her to react like that?
loading...
At McDonalds playground one day, a little girl kept kicking my son in the foot. I went over, and through gritted teeth said, ‘Stop. Kicking. Him.’ Shortly after she started putting her hands around my son’s neck. I then went and found her mother, and reported what had happened. The mother was very good about it, and called her little girl over and told her why she had been naughty and that ‘this lady-’ me! – ‘(was) very cross’.
loading...
Simone, well done on handling this situation so well.
loading...
At least she told her child to stop – one day my mothers group was over. One of the girls kept hitting my son (when she thought they were out of our sight). I watched for a minute, then asked her to stop. She didn’t,then in my full view hit him again very hard, he started to cry. I went to comfort my son and again told her firmly to stop and not to hit, that she’d hurt someone and needed to say sorry. She refused. So I went to her mum and asked her to deal with it. Her mother went over and said, “what happened?”, the kid lied and said he’s hit her (he hadn’t and I’d been watching – she kept approaching him and hitting him, he’s move away and she’d got to him again!), I said I’d been watching and he hadn’t touched her. The mum turned to my son and told him not to hit her daughter. I couldn’t believe it .
loading...
My child was subject to intense bullying for a period of 4yrs. It came to a head when the bully “stalked” my child and then slashed his bike tyres. I had been speaking to the school regularly but it had gone too far. I told the child off alright. His parents reported me to the police.
loading...
J, this is the sort of attitude that makes me seethe with white hot rage – the “parents” and I use that term loosely, refused to discipline their child. You had to do their job for them and they had the hide to report you!!!!!! Fuck this makes me angry. I hope the police had the sense to realise that the child bullying yours is clearly just an arsehole with parents who are just as bad. I sincerely hope that you don’t get charged.
loading...
I had this happen many years ago when there was a kid behaving horribly with other kids around (including mine obviously & they were in a ‘ball pit’ sort of thing that kids play in at a play cafe) while his dad was completely oblivious (with his head buried in a newspaper).
I could see that things were just going on for too long with his aggressive behaviour & when he absolutely pelted one of those balls at my chest I stared him down & said ‘Don’t’ in a loud enough voice but through gritted teeth…just one word & a long stare at the kid…and with just that him and his dad left within 5 minutes
loading...
I am so over the way we tip-toe around children’s feelings. Of course we should pull them up when they are doing something wrong. (No need to yell though, a gentle reminder is much more successful in my experience) As you say it takes a village.
loading...
I think it’s part of our responsibility as a community to give kind, calm direction at appropriate times. Such as if a child is hurting someone else, in danger or being generally disruptive to property or people. If possible speak to the parents but otherwise I have no problem giving ‘guidence’ in a loud voice with a smile so that people can hear exactly what was said. I thank people when they do it to Lachie if I wasn’t aware as long as they did it from concern not from anger.
loading...
I was on a plane trip a little while back with all four of our kids…they are typically great travellers…but on this particular occassion my youngest kept kicking the seat in front…. I kept asking her to stop “as it is bad manners and is disrupting to the lady in front”…she kept doing it and I was becoming quiet anxious….finally the lady turned around and said…’please stop kicking my seat’……I am forever greatful, my daughter has never done this again and is now really mindful when we are on the plane……yeah!!!
loading...
Sorry, but I feel for that poor woman. What if she’d been the sort of person to ‘not make a scene’ and have to put up with the annoyance of having her seat kicked for the whole flight because you couldn’t keep your child in line?
loading...
That poor woman, as a parent you should take some control and teach your child to respect others.
loading...
I went to my niece’s 6th birthday party the other day & I wanted to tell off most of the children present. The best I could do was rig musical chairs so the well behaved kids won. I could have slapped half of the kids & got away with it as their parents were too busy having a wine & a chat
loading...
Hahaha….this is so true….I can never understand why the parents have a wine at childrens birthday party…in my opinion a kids birthday party is not for us to socialise entirely, but to supervise our kids and ensure that they are behaving in a mindful, respectable way…..by all means have a whole bottle when you get home…..we definetly need it!!
loading...
I always thought a kids birthday party was for the kids to get together and have fun, and for the parents to drop them off and pick them up after a couple of hours of party fun.
loading...
(darth vader voice) you have much to learn young one…..
Things changed on the party front somewhere in the 90s. With my gen y kids this is what we did. I would only stay at a kids party if I was friends with the parents (there might also be a drinkie too). With my gen z(?) girls people suddenly expected you to stay and expected to stay and be catered for at your kids party.
Rude, rude shock to the system.
loading...
Yeah I know. I think it’s funny. Remember a while ago there was a post about kids’ birthday parties? Man that was nuts. “But SOMETHING could HAPPEN!!!!!11!!!”.
loading...
I remember that post. It was “interesting”….
We have someone at work whose child is so precious and who is so “smothery” for want of a better word that her child is now seeing a psychologist because she lacks resilience.
Some of the comments on that post reminded me of her.
loading...
Your (S)mothering colleague may relate to this, Faybian!
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/simcha-fisher/attachment-parenting-the-next-phase
loading...
There’s nothing wrong with disciplining a child who needs it. In fact, if my son was hitting another child or doing something dangerous and I wasn’t aware of it, I’d want another adult to do respond appropriately by disciplining him.
Recently we were at a park and there were some bigger boys yelling at any younger kid what approached they couldn’t play on this boat thing, “go away, you’re not allowed here!” I didn’t even question my impulse to tell them firmly that they didn’t own the park and all the kids were allowed to play anywhere they wanted.
Getting upset at an adult for stepping in when a child is off track is madness. It’s another example of the extreme defensiveness a lot of parents (mums?) have about their children and their parenting approach.
loading...
As a nurse I often have to manage the children who visit patients in wards with their families. On many occasions, the adults sit and chat with the patient, allowing the kids to run free up and down the ward, the cheeky ones even rummaging around in stuff. We keep anything dangerous out of reach and locked away, and I usually politely ask the kids to go and stay with their parents. If that fails, I politely ask the parents to please supervise their children, as it is not safe for them to be unsupervised. It always amazes me that they seem surprised to find that little johnny is not sitting quietly by the bed with them… “Oh!, where is he?” is the usual reaction. They usually tell the kid to sit and be quiet, which lasts for all of 5 minutes before they’re off and at it again. I just have to keep going back which the parents get pretty sick of quickly.
loading...
I would have spoken to the mother first, saying, i just dont want your son to pull the mannequin over on himself. We have friends who chastise my son all the time when we are present and i don’t think it’s necessary. I’m well aware if he’s behaving badly and he doesn’t need 2 extra adults telling him off! I think when it comes to friends with kids there is a certain amount of turning a blind eye otherwise you’d never get together with anyone!!
loading...
Dare we consider that if your friends are chastising your child in front of you, your blind eye is being turned far too much? You are ‘well aware he is behaving badly’ – well, fix it then! Sounds like your friends have waited foryou to act and you haven’t. And you sound like one of the nightmare parents being discussed, who let their kids run amok and don’t give a hoot. Hmmmm… maybe a little more self awareness called for on your part?
loading...
Umm, Mama of 3 – clearly your child IS doing something he shouldn’t be. If you and your son are in their house, they have every right to expect certain standards of behaviour. Their house, their rules. Obviously your son is misbehaving if he has two adults chastising him. I very much doubt they would be doing it for no reason at all. That’s the whole point of the article, chastising people’s kids because the parents aren’t doing it themselves because so many parents seem to think that their little angels can do no wrong.
loading...
You’re probably one of those parents who let your children run around in stores wrecking everything and only pay attention if it means YOUR kid might get hurt by a mannequin it’s touching.
loading...