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asylum seeker funeral 300x225 Why fly a grieving parent to attend their child’s funeral? Why indeed.

Some of the asylum seekers who were buried

Funerals were held yesterday for 8 of the at least 30 people who drowned when their boat smashed into Christmas Island in December last year. Among those who were buried were Zahra Ibrahimy, an 8 month old little girl and the father of an eight-year-old survivor of the disaster.

That 8 year old boy, who is now an ‘unaccompanied minor’ in detention on Christmas Island after his entire family drowned on that boat, was among the mourners. Take a moment to imagine what his life has been like since that disaster – and before it.

Paul Kent writes about the mourners and those who died in a piece that makes compulsive reading if you’re at all concerned:

In the first hearse, in a tan craftwood coffin numbered 19388, was an adult. It was Farhan Khaligy, a young father whose eight-year-old son Sinan stood nearby, unable to accept the death of his father and his mother, who is lost at sea.

In the second hearse was a small white coffin, number 19387, which carried eight-month-old Zahra El Ibrahimy.

Her father, Madian, was the first mourner there.

He left Iraq eight months before his wife and two children to set up life in Australia, and was waiting for his family on Christmas Island when the boat carrying them was smashed on to rocks.

His wife, Zman, and son, Nzar, are lost at sea.

In the third hearse was another small white coffin, number 19386, carrying three-month-old Sam al-Hussainy.

His father, Hussein, had also been flown in from Christmas Island for the funeral. His wife, Maryam, was lost at sea.

Shadow Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has been putting himself in front of every camera and microphone this week to declare that flying 22 family members to Sydney for the funeral of their relatives was a waste of money. Do you?

At least 30 asylum seekers died when the boat was washed ashore in horrific weather as locals, who could do mostly nothing, heard the screams of men, women and children.

Morrison said there were security issues involved in making the funeral arrangements and that the Government ‘doesn’t understand the value of the taxpayer’s money’.

Here the Sydney Morning Herald reports on his initial comments made on radio:

scott morrison 268x300 Why fly a grieving parent to attend their child’s funeral? Why indeed.

This is liberal MP Scott Morrison. Remember him.

Mr Morrison told radio 2GB: ”If people wanted to attend the funeral service from Sydney, for example, who may have been relatives of those who wanted these funeral services, well, they could have held the service on Christmas Island and like any other Australian who would have wanted to go to the funeral of someone close to them, they would have paid for themselves to get on a plane and go there.”

The Department of Immigration confirmed it had paid for flights and one night’s accommodation for 22 immediate family members in detention at Christmas Island and Perth to attend the services. They will be kept under police escort, and unable to mix with the community.

How distressing that a man with such an absolute and utter lack of compassion has been given a shadow portfolio as sensitive as immigration. A portfolio that’s not just about numbers but about PEOPLE and real life circumstances. To play political point-scoring and try to grab some media oxygen on this issue?  Reprehensible. The lowest of the low.

But if his words were inflammatory and cold-hearted, senior Liberal Joe Hockey brought the debate back to human terms.

Screen shot 2011 02 15 at 4.53.20 PM Why fly a grieving parent to attend their child’s funeral? Why indeed.

Many of these people drowned

Here news.com.au report on his rebuttal of Morrison’s attitude:

Mr Hockey, the shadow treasurer, said the nation had to “retain our humanity” during the political debate on the policy respond to asylum seekers arriving by boat.

“No matter what the colour of your skin, no matter what the nature of your faith, if your child has died or a father has died, you want to be there for the ceremony to say goodbye, and I totally understand the importance of this to those families,” Mr Hockey said in Sydney.

“I think we as a compassionate nation have an obligation to ensure that we retain our humanity during what is a very difficult policy debate.”

Bravo Joe. You showed your mettle with those comments. I’ve always liked you. Thanks for reminding me why.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott tried to take the middle ground, but disappointingly, he seemed to side with Morrison when he appeared on radio to discuss the issue:

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott told Melbourne radio station MTR he wants to know why the Government paid for asylum seekers to fly to Sydney for the funerals.

“I’m also curious as to why rellies are being flown around the country,” he said.

“I mean, look, [it's] a terrible tragedy and I think everyone shares the grief of people who have lost loved ones – particularly in these horrible circumstances – but you’re right, it does seem a bit unusual that the Government is flying people to funerals.”

Ugh. Fence sitting and dog whistling is not becoming Tony Abbott. You are a compassionate man – I believe that – so why on earth don’t you show it?

With comments like these the debate has taken an ugly turn at a time of unspeakable grief and loss for the families of those who died. When did it become acceptable to totally remove compassion from the asylum seeker debate?

These are human beings who died in the most horrific way, in many cases in front of loved ones who survived.

We’re not talking about distant relatives. We’re talking about parents who lost their children, their babies. We’re talking about children who lost their parents and siblings and who are now being held in detention in a strange country.

If we cannot spare these people a few dollars and a few ounces of compassion so they can say goodbye to their family, what kind of a country are we?

It’s entirely possible to have a view either way about the process of immigration and accepting those who seek asylum and to demonstrate compassion as well. The points of view are not mutually exclusive with believing in the value of a human life.

It’s very easy to gloss over the horrific nature of events like these when talking about ‘boats’ and other neutral terms, all the while forgetting what this is all about. Those ‘boats’ are filled with families, brothers, husbands, mothers and so on. It’s the most precious of human cargo.

However we deal with the processing of asylum seekers, surely we can all agree that no human life, or their subsequent death and funeral, should be politicised in this way?

What Scott Morrison said and did today was appalling. Appalling.

He thinks bringing 22 desperate and grieving people – some of them children – to Sydney for 24 hours is a ‘waste’ of money. Do you?

UPDATE: Scott Morrison has retracted some of his sentiments from yesterday, though didn’t deny what he said was wrong – just the timing. This from the Herald Sun:

Following criticism from his own party and the government, Mr Morrison admitted the timing of his comments was “inappropriate” and “insensitive”.

“Timing in terms of comments I think is very important I think. The timing of my comments over the last 24 hours was insensitive and was inappropriate,” Mr Morrison told 2GB’s Ray Hadley.

“I made the suggestion (the funeral) should have been held on Christmas Island. That wasn’t the right time to make that comment. I accept that.
“I have to show a little more compassion than I showed yesterday.”

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370 Comments so far

  1. Skils

    I am just posting the email address’ of the PM, KRudd and the Minister for Immigration (Chris Bowen) just in case anyone else wants to email. Thanks to Willy Way & Anon for posting these earlier.

    http://www.pm.gov.au/contact-your-pm
    Kevin.Rudd.MP@aph.gov.au
    minister@immi.gov.au

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  2. Sharon

    Why is Tony Abbot such an idiot?

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  3. Mrs Average

    Should we flip a coin…Anna Bligh or Joe Hockey for PM? How good would either one be?!

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  4. rainbow

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001179537391

    asylum seeker resource centre facebook page if anyone is interested

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  5. Edwina

    I was just reading your post out to my husband and burst into tears. I just find it so heartbreaking imagining this 8 year old boy in a foreign country, burying his father, knowing his mother is dead. I was nervous about my 8 year old being at school 1/2 hour early this morning because it meant I wouldn’t be there to ensure he made it safely into the classroom. Am bawling my eyes out again as I write this. I just want to hug and hold that little boy and tell him we will protect him, we will help him.

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  6. katmay4

    I am filled with admiration and compassion for people brave enough to leave their whole life behind in the hope of finding a better life for their families in Australia. My heart breaks that so many have met such a tragic end and I believe that Australia owes the survivors nothing less than a measly flight to Sydney. God bless each and every one of them.

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  7. Nat

    Mia, one things for sure.

    It seems from these comments, if said politician worked in any industry aside from politics, it would be safe to say he would never work again!

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  8. Lil

    I am embarrassed to be an Austrlian when our so called leaders are such dismal failures and such nasty people.

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  9. Benita (MissBenben)

    Scott Morrison, you are a skidmark on the underpants of humanity.

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  10. Lilly pond

    I don’t buy the so called apology. Not. One. Bit!

    Give me a break! It was only an apology about timing!? And as for Abbott thanking Morrison for saying it, well that beggars belief! Abbott is just as much to blame. These sorts of comments aren’t made without a lot of consultation with minders/leaders/fellow MP’s.

    The thing is, the Opposition is once again pandering to prejudice and fear, demoting asylum seekers to less than human so as to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Similar to the way some advertisiers depict women in their ads. Reducing them to objects in the hope they will just become part of the landscape and not something/someone that has feelings or emotions that no-one will notice. Objects we don’t really have to relate to, just buy whatever it is they’re promoting or selling

    The government, on the other hand appears to be humane and caring, but after flying the grieivng asylum seekers to Sydney is sending them right back to the detention centre on Christmas Island.

    It’s been a better week for the Government than Opposition. But not by much.

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  11. Bek

    No one paid for my travel to my brother’s funeral when he died very young a few years ago, does this mean I can ask the govt to reimburse me for those costs now?

    I’m certainly not against tax payers paying for travel to funerals for it’s citizens, but firstly…are they tax paying citizens and secondly please make sure you’re applying this rule evenly across the board.

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    • Lilly pond

      No Bec, they don’t pay tax because they don’t work because they aren’t permitted to work! They are seking asylum in this country. They have lost their loved ones. You won’t be reimbursed because to probably have a job. These are people with nothing.

      As someone mentioned earlier, I’d rather some oney go towards a flight for these poor people than the repair costs for Barnaby Joyce’s smashed taxpayer funded car or a woman having her fourth baby bonus funded child.

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    • Eternally

      Are you serious Bek? I’m very sorry about the death of your brother, but what do you expect the asylum seekers to pay with? They gave up what little they had in an effort to come here for a better life for their children. As Lilly pond said, they are not allowed to work, even though some who are less traumatized than this group are willing and able to, as boredom only compounds their psychological distress.
      The money that was spent is a tiny fraction of government spending overall, and the least we can do for these devastated people.
      Please, show some empathy. Consider how you would have felt if you had been unable to attend your brother’s funeral. I lost my father when he died unexpectedly, and I know how important it was for myself and my siblings (my youngest brother was 8) to attend the funeral.

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      • Eternally

        That smiley face was supposed to be 8 with a close bracket ), I can’t edit it from my iPad!

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    • Me

      You had the means to get to the funeral. These people are locked up.

      An 8 year old boy has a right to be flown to Sydney to his father’s funeral, with his mother still ‘lost at sea’.

      Are you suggesting he shouldn’t have gone? That thought makes me sick. Please have some compassion.

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    • Lana

      Bek are you able to see the differences in these circumstances at all?

      You have the means, but it seems that you are lacking the compassion.

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    • rainbow

      bek, you paid 2c to cover the cost of the asylum seekers to attend the funeral.

      a nine year-old boy has returned to detention today. he buried his father in sydney and is hoping his mother will arrive one day to christmas island. she was lost at sea after the crash, she will never arrive.

      do you begrudge him the cost of attending his father’s funeral?

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  12. MiddleC

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/8852553/we-went-too-far-on-funeral-costs-abbott/

    Mr Abbott – who earlier said he believed the government’s decision was “unusual” – said Mr Morrison’s contrition showed guts.

    “I want to thank Scott for being man enough to accept that perhaps we did go a little bit too far yesterday,” he said.

    Perhaps? No perhaps about it!

    The article does say the little boy will be released “quite soon” so I hope that is true.

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  13. Sally

    As someone who has buried a child, I am simply horrified by so much of what I’ve read in the past two days both from politicians and “fellow” Australians. I imagine many of the people making these statements have never lost a child, politicians included and I am happy to stand corrected if I am wrong. Could say more, but wont.

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    • Mrs Average

      So sorry Sally for your loss. Thanks for sharing your story with us. Hopefully the few that don’t get it, might have some better insight now. Regardless of our politics, these are mothers, fathers or children experiencing the worst possible grief.
      It seems impossible that some Australians just don’t feel for these people. So so tragic :(

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  14. Louise

    What an absolute disgrace you are Scott Morrison – as a politician supposedly representing Australians and as a person. I hope your constituents are deeply ashmamed of you. And you also Tony Abbott, just goes to show your leadership style when all you can do is make conciliatory remarks instead of defending basic human rights. I really hope no overseas press pick this up and think they reflect Australian’s opinions. What a sad day for society values.

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  15. AT

    Appalling. I am at a loss.

    Isn’t Abbott meant to be a man of the church? Not very Christian comments my friend.

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    • Jab

      I’m in scott morrisons electorate, front page of his glossy advertising proudly announces his Christian values. Must have misplaced them yesterday!!!

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    • Eternally

      I agree, Jesus was a refugee as a child, would Tony lock him up?

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  16. Kerr

    How about the fact that a little 8 year old boy, who lost both his parents in the crash has been taken back to detention EVEN THOUGH he has family in NSW who have asked to care for him. I was listening on the radio this morning where someone (didn’t catch who) was saying they needed to take appropriate steps to determine care for this child and would work through the church groups and social support available and he needed to be transferred back to Christmas Island. Excuse me, but I think the most appropriate step would be to place this grieving little boy with his family. It makes me sick. What if this was an Australian child whos parents were killed overseas and that child was placed behind bars? The whole country would be outraged, their little face would be all over the news. Is this the country we have become? It makes me so sad, where is the compassion and human decency?
    Oh, and Scott Morrison, I hate you. Stop talking on behalf of Australian tax-payers. I am one and you do not have a right to speak for me.

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    • Anonymous

      Sounds like state endorsed child abuse to me, B

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  17. Anon76

    These people have a right to grieve and Joe Hockey was completely correct in his comments. He needs to tell fellow Liberals to pull their heads in. Just who are they trying to get on side by being so callous?? Joe Hockey for Liberal leader, get that Tony Abbott out (the man was born with his foot in his mouth). As for Scott Morrison…enough said.
    My heart goes out to these families. I have worked with refugees and while I understand the desire for a better life, I’ll never really understand their plight as thankfully, I’ve never had to experience anything so bad as to make me want to jump aboard a rickety boat and travel in treacherous waters halfway around the world in the hope they might let me stay. These are brave people who have their families futures at heart, not the line jumpers they are painted as. Be compassionate Australia.

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  18. Bo

    This is particularly topical for me as I’m watching Oprah today and literally bawling my eyes out. The story is about a couple who lost their three children in a horrific car accident and their struggle since.

    The idea that ANY parent of any nationality, race, social position or walk of life would be denied or begrudged the opportunity to say goodbye to their dead child is shameful, and thats all I really have to say.

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    • Edwina

      oh my- I watched that ep. today and was the same utterly devastating. Strength & courage above anything I could imagine.

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  19. mere male

    The excuse for politicians who are representing us, make me sick. All of them. Maybe we should have a clear out, based on their IQ. That should allow for a few by-elections. Have some humanity, for Chrissakes……

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    • Kim

      I second that.

      This is the last straw.

      Australia could be a world leader in all realms of policy – we have the smarts, we just need the LEADERSHIP.

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  20. You can call me Susan

    I didn’t read the whole post, so I apologise. All I can say, is that several years ago, a man that I knew well for many years died and his family decided to hold a private funeral. It suited their needs, but it didn’t give me a chance to say ‘good-bye’ and I really missed that. Especially now when I still feel a fleeting ‘I wish I had of been able to have been given the chance’, when his family says, ‘time really makes a difference. We don’t think about him much anymore’. Is it because of the way we make our farewells? Or is it just our personalities?

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    • kikilee

      I very strongly believe you can not acknowledge someones life without acknowledging their death. Missing your official goodbye must have been hard!

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  21. LBD

    for all the money the govt wastes on shitty projects (in the hundreds of millions) I can’t believe what is a pretty small cost for such an important thing to offer these families/ people is being questioned – how disgusting of these pollies! humanity indeed needs to be the dominant principle in this case!!!!

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  22. MiddleC

    I’ve liked Joe Hockey for a while now. He has compassion, stands by his convictions, is loyal and would probably make a better PM than either Gillard or Abbott.

    Morrison’s comments are so insensitive, it’s hard to comprehend. I’m sure that the Govt would just let the detainees onto a Qantas plane to go to a funeral. Not.

    I am fine with my tax $$ going to something like this. If we can’t show compassion in times of grief, when can we?

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  23. Nikola

    I cried and cried and cried when I heard Scott Morrison and then Tony Abbott’s comments on the radio yesterday. They broke my heart. I am proud to be Australian and I love my country. Whether or not the politicians think there is room here for these desperate people, it distresses me that there is not enough room in their hearts to feel the pain of those who have suffered so much. A day later, though, I feel a kind of gratitude that we live in a country where such opinions, and those who oppose them, can be freely expressed. I might not agree with all my fellow Australians, but I’m sure glad I didn’t have to get on a tiny boat with my children and navigate treacherous seas to live in a country where we all have the right to voice our opinions.

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    • Nikola

      Oh, and I loved the tweet I got this morning that read “I’d rather spend my tax $ to fly people to a funeral than to replace Barnaby Joyce’s 4WD”

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    • Silverdragon

      Nikola – I’m so, so glad that I’m not the only one who had tears welling in my eyes every time I heard about this story.

      The possiblity that people could quibble about a few measly dollars to allow these poor people some form of closure from this tragedy is just abhorrent.

      Truly, I hope that Scott Morrison in no way represents the views of the majority. From the comments I have seen thus far, I don’t think he does, but the fact there is space for any support for this kind of approach in a privileged, free and supposedly democratic country is grounds for reproach.

      Come on Australia, show some of that famous “heart” we’re supposed to be renowned for!

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  24. Seahorse

    Scott, there is room to be open-hearted and hard-headed on this one. Your comments are cringeful in the extreme, but more importantly you’ve missed the opportunity to draw Australia’s attention to the fact that it is the governments woeful border security which has allowed such a tragic loss of life to occur in the first place.

    Frankly I am more embarrassed, as an Australian, that the government is throwing “compassion” (ie money) at a problem of its own making. It’s inadequate to be all warm and caring in the aftermath – that energy/money/compassion would have been far better invested in compassionately processing refugees before they board a leaky ship, in deterring people smugglers, and in better naval patrol of our waters (someone tell me again how the boat got all the way to the shore???). That’s a far better use of the circa half million bucks Wayne spent transporting everyone to the funeral.

    Stay focussed on the big issue team, not Scott’s patently idiotic comments.

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    • 60 cents in the dollar

      Seahorse, this isn’t a problem of our making. We did not force these people to risk their lives getting onbaord a leaky, unseaworthy vessel. They made their choice, took the risk and some paid with their lives.
      In saying that, I would rather having my tax dollars go to bringing the families together so they can farewll their loved ones, then to some junkie having her fourth baby bonus baby.

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  25. The Frugal

    I have no issue flying anybody to attend a funeral – I believe it’s everyones right to say goodbye to a loved one but….Why did they have to buried in Sydney? I understand not wanting them to be buried on Christmas Island but why not say Darwin or even Perth?

    Is there a good valid reason why it had to be Sydney?

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    • Rick

      Hey Frugal, it’s mostly covered below but to recap: a lot of family members already in Australia are living in Sydney and want to be able to visit the gravesites. Those who were flown in were mostly in detention or were on the boat, but those who died did have family in Sydney :)

      Hope that helps.

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    • 60 cents in the dollar

      Because there is a Muslim burial area in Rookwood Cemetary.

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    • Silverdragon

      Also because the AFP had the bodies ‘in custody’ during the forensic investigation – in Sydney. So it would have been a matter of either transporting the relatives or the bodies.

      Given, as has been indicated, there are appropriate burial facilities in Sydney as well as other relatives, majority community etc, I think it was appropriate.

      I doubt the cost is significantly different to the government between flying people to Darwin, Perth or Sydney.

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  26. Emma

    Here here Mia. Thank you for this article. I couldn’t agree more. I wish politicians would realise that it degrades them when they attempt to appeal to the thugs and right-wing racists amongst us whose ignorance leads them to have no compassion for these desperate people. I couldn’t believe my ears when I heard critisism of this decision being voiced in the media. What kind of people are we?

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  27. Chocolate Aeroplane

    I completely agree with your sentiments Mia. Does the federal opposition have not an ounce of compassion? They oppose and complain for the sake of it without thinking of the human beings at the heart of the matter. They’ve done it with the flood levy too. It’s embarrassing – the stuff that comes out of their mouths astounds me. They are constantly putting their feet in their mouths – something we don’t see the government doing.

    Bravo to Joe Hockey – he would make a much better leader of the opposition.

    I’m amazed by some of the comments here – I would have thought everyone who’s human would agree with this post.

    I hope they don’t send the 8 year old boy back to detention – if he has family in Sydney he should stay with them.

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  28. Mish

    Just a thought… I don’t know much about how politicians travel, but when Scott Morrison travels for work on the taxpayer dollar, I’m pretty sure he’d either fly business or first class, and probably stay in fairly expensive accommodation. And I’m also pretty sure if that was downgraded to economy, within a short period of time that could have paid for all 22 flights and accommodation for these grieving relatives.

    How lucky for Scott that he has the taxpayer to fund his extra leg room and reclining seat!

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  29. Mumof2

    Seriously how much could it have cost! It would be a tiny little drop in the bucket compared to overall govt spending.

    Personally I’d love to get a look at the yearly travel expenses of Scott Morrison. In fact – how about seeing the cost of all the “study trips” aka junkets that MP’s (and their entourage of staff) go on.

    I, for one taxpayer, am more than happy for my taxes to pay for these poor oppressed damaged people to go to a funeral than other crap like more guns and bullets and people being sent over to kill people in the very country that the refugees came from. Does anybody not see the irony.

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    • Bec

      Ummm $300,000 for a charter rather than commercial flight.
      I am pretty sure our military is not sent anywhere to kill people either… That alone smacks of ignorance.

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      • Rick

        2 cents for every Australian…

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      • Mumof2

        That IS a drop in the bucket. I work for a govt department (I won’t say which one) and I can tell you people would be outraged if they knew how money is wasted. It seriously angers me so much.

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        • Bec

          I too work for a govt department and am eternally frustrated by the lack of resources in our area vs what others a frittering away. This government is very good at setting targets / deadlines but not providing the resources to achieve them. Perhaps if they weren’t so wasteful we wouldn’t be in this predicament.

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          • Mumof2

            I agree – ministers are very good at making silly promises with outrageous deadlines and then it’s up to the minnows like you and me to make it all happen with a lack of resources.

            In my dept we don’t even get tea or coffee provided – or even the cups to put it in. Yet I see the minister and his staffers getting catered lunches every day for ‘meetings’.

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            • Bec

              We don’t even have a lunch room provided to eat in let alone anyhting to eat or drink off. Shocking really!

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            • Benita (MissBenben)

              Same. I’m working for a Govt department at the moment and whilst cups are provided (hoo-fucking ray!) we have to provide our own tea/coffee/sugar/milk. And spoons. Yep, spoons.

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            • Mumof2

              We don’t have a lunch room either! Used to, but some smart person got rid of it as part of a renovation so some policy wonk could have a bigger office no doubt!

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            • Kathy W

              Oh boo flaming hoo Bec and Miss Benita etc.!!!
              So you don’t have a *lunch room* waaaaahhhh
              Nothing to eat or drink off – get out the tissues
              or spoons – heaven forbid!!!

              How about these people who dont even have clean water, somewhere to live that is safe, medical care etc. etc.

              Get a grip on reality

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            • Bec

              Sorry Kathy we don’t have tissues either… The point we were trying to make is that govt departments waste a lot of money at the “top”. There is an endless pot of gold for MP’s perks but no money to provide teaspoons for their staff.

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            • Kathy W

              No my comments are not ‘misdirected and childish’. I am simply annoyed at this pouting about government spending!! Governments WILL waste money – happened before…will happen again.

              I too work for a government department – I am a teacher in a public school – I haul along my own DVD player, extension cord, paper for students, pens for students, whiteboard markers and so on…and so forth…and we all provide our own tea, coffee and yes..spoons…without expecting the government to do it for us. That’s life boys and girls. Suck it up and thank God we don’t live in Afghanistan.

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            • Anonymous

              Kathy W,
              Grow a brain. You’re mean. And thick.

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            • Bec

              So Kathy you’re saying it’s ok for govt’s to waste money cause that is just what they do???

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          • Benita (MissBenben)

            Kathy W, I think you have missed the point. And I also think your comment was unnecessarily nasty. I was trying to highlight the irony of a government minister whingeing about the cost of flying family members to funerals at tax payers expense, whilst at the same time enjoying the perks of his job, at tax payers expense, by observing that government organisations seem to have plenty of money to ensure those on top of the ladder enjoy business class travel, and at the same time are unable to fund tea and coffee making facilities for their workers.

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            • Kathy W

              See…here’s the thing….YOU are missing the point.

              Whining about having no coffe (bawl) or spoons (waaah) and these people – who are the original point of the post – have nothing – no spoons, no coffee, and now – no families.

              No I’m not being nasty…am simply stating facts.

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            • Carolyn

              I got it, you were talking about gov depts and waste. Not comparing your own plight with others.
              I think it’s a good analogy.
              I also think it’s crap that you don’t have tea or coffee, let alone bikkies!

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            • Mumof2

              Kathy W – your vitriolic comments are totally misdirected. We were in no way comparing ourselves to others less fortunate – you have completely skewed what we were talking about, and frankly your comments and language are childish.

              I don’t even feel the need to defend myself to you as you haven’t even read the full post quite obviously.

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        • Lee

          Totally agree, particularly when I have had experience with putting info together for estimates committees (govt departments budget requests basically) I can say that there is an enormous amount of money wasted on things that really don’t matter and no money left for things that would make a difference to our people.

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  30. Sarah

    I can not beleive what I am reading ! Where is the compassion? Where is the dignity? Where is the leadership in Abbott’s words? To think Tony Abott was nearly Prime Minister … his words are so embarrassing I am in shock !!!!! Does he think he will win votes by appealing to the lowest commmon thug who believes what he is saying is right …. God help us if Abbott gets in next election. Living in Bali on no money for a few years will be looking very appealing ….

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    • Chocolate Aeroplane

      Hopefully Joe Hockey will take over before then… then at least we’d have some hope!!

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  31. bella

    Shame on you Scott Morrison!

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  32. One happy chicky

    Bravo mamamia my thoughts exactly

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  33. MBK'smum

    How dreadful must your life be, to take such risks, especially with your very young children. This is all such a horible story, I cannot begin to imagine the real nightmare these people are living. It’s so much more than ‘insult to injury’ to bemoan the flights of the grieving to remember their lost loved ones. It’s the very, very *least* we should do or support as a community.

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  34. Caroline

    All I have to say is: “GO JULIA & Co” you got this one RIGHT!!!!

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    • Seahorse

      Really? Seems like “Julia & Co” pathetic border security allowed the tragedy to occur in the first place. Not sure I feel like patting them on the back for flying relos to a funeral they contributed to.

      Don’t think there are heros on either side of the political fence today.

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      • Van Badham

        Seahorse, don’t patronise the people commenting on this with your Liberal-Party “smear everyone in our mistake” tactics. You are conveniently forgetting SIEV-X, which occurred when your mob were in government, which killed ten times as many refugees (353) as the disaster on Christmas Island, including 140 children.

        There is a hero here – and it’s not Joe Bloody Hockey. He’s just a disingenuous populist – happily a member of a political party (and was previously of a government) that generated the xenophobic hysteria about asylum seekers in the first place – and whom I do not believe is considering his resignation from such despite his party leader’s sanctioning of party-comrade Morrison’s heartless and racist crusades.

        The hero here is whoever it was in the current Labor government who made the decision that the One Nation threats and pamphlets could finally go in the bin because it was time to do something decent, Australian and humane. Like send an ORPHANED 8 YEAR OLD CHILD to his parents’ funeral.

        To pretend otherwise, to try and smear the Liberal Party’s shame on others in the hopes of diluting it merely draws attention to the desperate pro-Liberal party trolling going on here. In the face of the real human tragedy that took place on Christmas Island, your self-serving behaviour here is beyond appalling.

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        • Seahorse

          Not sure why you think I’m a Lib? I think the gvt has failed here, and I fully agree that the Australian gvt has a history of failing on this issue.

          As I said further down, it is really sad when Australian’s aren’t compassionate, because we do have it good and we can afford to be. But frankly, I think it shows greater compassion and strength of national character to invest compassion in alleviating their circumstances at home, helping them seek refuge in a safe way, or at the very least picking up their leaky boat before it disintegrates. We fail when we wait until we are flying them to a funeral to show our “compassion”.

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        • Seahorse

          Just re read your comment Van Badham and have to say, au contraire. “In the face of the real human tragedy that took place on Christmas Island” I believe it’s “appalling” (as you put it) to engage in a whole bunch of hand-wringing after the fact, and remain ignorant to or disengaged from the reasons the tragedy occurred. Because letting it happen again is what fails those who perished.

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    • fi

      However, what she didnt get right was the fact that she changed the border policy to make it easier for these people to get on leaky boats and attempt to come here. And then they died. She got that VERY wrong and still hasn’t fixed it!

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  35. Lulu

    I wanted to reply to a comment further down but couldn’t, so I’ll post this separately here.

    A lot of people say ‘but these people passed through other countries where they could seek asylum, other signatory countries, etc etc.” I’m not sure which countries they’re thinking of, but Indonesia is not a signatory to the UNHCR convention; neither are Pakistan, India, etc etc.

    Ten seconds of Googling got me that information, but I’ll save you the terrible trouble, & post the link:

    http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49da0e466.html

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  36. nat

    Despicable.

    But honestly WHY are we shocked by this?

    Surely by now we realise that all these morons in politics do is sledge each other rather than do anything proactive. Makes no difference to them if the subject matter is human life.

    The govt pays for something, the opposition sledges it…..So BORING. So PREDICTABLE. So INSENSITIVE.

    Same old.

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  37. Jeannie

    They wanted to have the graves in Sydney because many had relatives there & knew the graves wold be tended & visited regularly. Once they get off Christmas Island (if they ever do) it’s cruel to expect them to leave the grave of their loved one forever.

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    • Catherine

      Well,just thinking of practicalities here, if people are not granted asylum in Australia and therefore are returned to their country of origin, they are going to be far away from where their loved one is buried, unless they exhume the body and take it home with them.

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      • Rick

        Then you would probably have complained if we paid for the body to be flown back to their country…which would have been thrice as expensive. Compassion just can’t win, it would seem?

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        • peter rabbit

          well actually we did fly some of the victims and their families back to their country of origin. One woman in particular chose to return to her country with her husbands body.

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      • Francine Dismorr

        Many have family in Sydney, so, even if they are not allowed entry for some reason, there will be someone here to tend the grave, not have the grave left untended & unvisited, as it most likely would be on Christmas Island.

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      • Jeannie

        But they will be near other relatives in Sydney at least!

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      • Elisha

        You know the majority of asylum seekers who come by boat are granted refugee status, right? Your ‘practical’ solution – not that you really offer one, more just another inflammatory grenade – is ludicrous.

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  38. Verona

    Some things you just don’t question. This is one of them.

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  39. Lu

    It is the most basic of human rights to allow people to attend their loved ones funeral. Unconditional.
    Some of the attitudes of the men in question dont appear to be very Christian…

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    • Karlos

      I’m sorry, but that kind of emotional claptrap is just silly. And this reference to “Christianity” is insulting. Like religion hasn’t been the justification for the worst human rights abuses in human history.

      Here are a few slightly more basic Human Rights, from the Declaration of Human Rights no less.

      Article 3.

      * Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

      Article 4.

      * No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

      Article 5.

      * No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

      Article 6.

      * Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

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    • CaramelloKoala

      Really? It’s a basic human right to be able to attend a funeral? I wish I’d known that a few years ago when my best friends funeral was held in Europe and I wasn’t able to attend (for obvious reasons, i.e. $$).

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      • hannahfromsa

        the difference being, presumably, that you weren’t in jail at the time?

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        • redballoon

          Yeah, but attending a funeral is NOT a human right. Karlos has already kindly outlined some real human rights above.

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      • Juliana

        I feel for you. It must have been very sad not to have been able to say goodbye to your best friend. I believe however that very few people can actually compare their lives to the one of an asylum seeker. To grieve in the absence of any security in your life must be horrible. What the little boy has lost was basically the only thing he had left to lose – the love of his parents. I’m glad he had the chance to attend the funeral. It will comfort him in the years to come. And the same can be said for everyone else who lost a love one in this tragedy.

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        • CaramelloKoala

          I don’t dispute this and I really feel for the little boy. Truly. What a horrible situation. I hope he gets to go and live with his relatives ASAP as being alone in detention… I can’t even imagine what he’s going through.

          However, we have basic human rights, and being able to attend a funeral is not one of them. I just don’t like when people fling incorrect info like that around. It’s not a human right, especially a basic one, at that.

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  40. M-e

    What an asshole.

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    • Mish

      My sentiments exactly.

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  41. canberramel

    I’m still so sad for everyone involved in the boat crash..it’s just unbelievably sad. In every way we should all be compassionate, even Governments. Human beings first – paperwork and bureaucracy second.

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  42. Sally

    When my dad died, we didn’t have a funeral because I couldn’t afford it after the funeral directors and cremation fees cost thousands. His cancer was horrific for all involved and will continue to haunt me for the rest of my life. It took his. Should I have asked the government to pay for it?

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    • An Idle Dad

      Your argument is framed in a way to deflect disagrement, for anyone who counters your argument will seem uncaring to your scenario. What happened to you and your father is terrible and you have my sympathy.

      That said, I must point out that life, medical and funeral insurance is readily available for a few dollars a week. It is your responsibility as an adult to plan for future mishaps, considering we are all mortal. If you chose not to insure or save for a rainy day, the government is not responsible.

      The government is responsible for these refugees however, as the government choses to restrict their ability to work or travel while their asylum stories are assessed. That responsibility includes showing adequate compassion during terrible times.

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      • Meg

        Well said. Very well said.

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      • Morgan

        So if I just throw my hands up in the air and say “take me into your mercy Australian government as I am from a terrible background, I’ve hard a hard life’ that is OK???

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        • Rick

          The requirements for seeking asylum go way beyond just having a ‘hard’life. We all have hard lives in one way or another. The requirements for seeking asylum are generally that your life must be in such a state of utter devastation that there are no other options for you but to flee, mostly because you may be killed where you are.

          That’s a requirement generally reinforced by their willingness to get on an unseaworthy boat in the hope that whatever they reach is better than where they’ve come from.

          We do the same for witness protection programs where people are at threat of being killed, relocate them at expense of the state and so forth.

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        • An Idle Dad

          Can I suggest the Newstart allowance if you are having trouble? Though I’m not sure whingers are what employers are looking to hire. Maybe get some hard yakka instead of a hard luck story and you’ll have better luck gaining employment.

          Don’t forget some insurance once you do, because you never know what’s around the corner.

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        • redballoon

          Oh, are you at risk of death and torture? Do you live in fear of what horrible shit might happen to your kids and other loved ones? Are you currently denied the most basic of human rights?

          If this is the case then yes, throw your hands in the air etc.
          If this is not the case, pipe down- your argument is embarrassingly lacking in empathy or rationality.

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      • Chocolate Aeroplane

        Well said… couldn’t agree more.

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      • fi

        Not sure if the governments responsible because they are restricted working etc. They are here illegally. They new the risks. The victims are the children because they didn’t choose to get on the boats. The parents are responsible, they new the risks. They are accountable. Of course the children need an appropriate funeral etc. Just not sure they needed to be buried in Sydney. What about the people who lost everything in the QLD floods? Anyone helping them??

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        • Lulu

          “What about the people who lost everything in the QLD floods? Anyone helping them??”

          Not unless you count a levy, premier’s disaster appeal, telethon, cricket match, exhibition tennis match, collecting by Coles & Safeway, donation matching by some major employers, etc etc, but that’s nothing, so no help at all.

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        • An Idle Dad

          Wow.
          1. There are here legally. Seeking asylum is legal.
          2. Knew is spelt ‘knew’ not ‘new’.
          3. Yes, the victims are the children who died. Well done. But the victims are also the living parents of those children, the parents who died and also the children who survived while their parents died. See there is this bond between family members, and people feel pain at the loss of one of those family members.
          4. Again, knew is spelt ‘knew’ not ‘new’
          5. Yes, the parents chose to bring their children along (who wouldn’t) and with that in mind you could say they that yes, they were accountable at some level, but the thing about tragic accidents is there are several overlapping level of responsibilities. The responsibility I was referring to was of what the government has towards those it detains. Regular prisoners in Australia are also usually allowed to attend the funerals of immediate members of their family at taxpayer expense. It has long been considered uncontroversial to let sons be at the burial of their mothers, even if they ARE criminals. It’s called compassion.
          6. Sydney was chosen at the request of Australian citizens living in Sydney. I know anything further than the nearest dirt ditch for the dead would be too much effort and inappropriate in your books but if you promise to remember we are talking about families who have lost their closest members, I’ll promise to remember you aren’t so lacking in human qualities like compassion and charity that you could be considered sub-human. Well… I’ll try at least.
          7. Is anyone helping Queenslanders? Seriously, you’re pulling my leg now aren’t you? You can’t possibly be that stupid.

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          • Emma in Melbourne-land

            idle dad, you are spot on!

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          • Pia

            I think your patronising is pathetic… way to go!

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            • An Idle Dad

              You picked up on my tone? Hopefully you absorbed the meaning too! Thanks for cheering me on!

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        • SSS

          Is anyone helping the Queensland flood victims? Have you been living under a rock???????

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  43. WillaWay

    I saw this photo on the article where Scott Morrison apologised for the timing (but not the content) of his remarks.

    I hope I’ll never have to bury one of my family members in a box with their number scrawled on it in texta after a few scribblings out.

    It won’t appear here (copyright, I guess) so here’s the address:

    http://www.news.com.au/national/morrison-sorry-for-insensitive-and-inappropriate-comments/story-e6frfkw9-1226006861268

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    • Nadine

      Gosh that’s awful…. :-(

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    • rainbow

      that is horrific.

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    • Meerkath

      Oh my gosh, that is horrible and so insensitive I want to throw up. Really? They couldn’t do any better than that? Simply horrible.

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      • CaramelloKoala

        Would it not be similar to what happens at a paupers funeral? (i.e. the cheapest possible burial). Though if they do have family in Sydney, surely they would have been given the option to contribute money towards more than a paupers funeral, if that’s what they wanted?

        Personally, I am about to draw up my will and in it will request a similar coffin. I don’t want my family wasting any more than is necessary on a wooden box, personally. I’m from a family of undertakers, though, so may have very different ideas to most regarding death and burials.

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        • Heléna

          that is a traditional casket used in muslim burials

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        • WillaWay

          Chosen thrift is one thing. Religious choice to be supported. Scrawled texta numbers? Not traditional. Not chosen. Not good.

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          • CaramelloKoala

            I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say?

            The poster above you said that it’s a traditional casket used in muslim burials (I didn’t previously know this, but now do).

            They were buried with dignity, surrounded by loved ones in an Islamic cemetery in a place their families are able to visit and tend to their burial sites. I think that’s absolutely wonderful.

            So why are people getting nitpicky about the type of casket? Isn’t it all the same in the end… a wooden box? Are we to expect that everyone who dies from here on in without the means to pay for their own funeral is buried in mahogony caskets at government expense? Bit of a stretch, no?

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    • peter rabbit

      I know you mean well, but your comment shows just how ignorant Australians really are about other cultures. They are not buried in this coffin at all. They are taken out of the coffin, the body is already wrapped in a simple white shroud, and they are placed into the burial plot wrapped in the shroud. The coffin is not buried with them. Statements like yours just help fuel incorrect statements about “how bad our government is” Maybe if everyone stopped and thought about how most of you are ignorant of this one fact, that perhaps there are also other facts about this case that you also don’t know and that is why the minister in charge is following correct procedure in this case.

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      • Meerkath

        Thank you for letting me know about the burial shroud, I didn’t know that and agree, as long as their cultural beliefs were respected, then there isn’t an issue. Maybe the media should not have shown this particular image?

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  44. Punkernickle

    Morrison responds: http://www.smh.com.au/national/lib-admits-timing-of-funeral-comments-insensitive-20110216-1avvp.html

    As for Abbott… come on, give him a break. He already told us we can’t believe what he says on the radio or TV – it’s not scripted! He reserves the right to change his mind after seeing negative reactions to what he really thinks!

    Honestly, sometimes I am amazed that we still have people seeking refuge in this country considering how they’re treated. They’re better off going to a third world country. It may not be as shiny, but at least they’ll treat you like a fellow human and try and help you with everything they have, however little that may be.

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  45. WillaWay

    Chris Bowen (Fed Minister for Immigration) email address for anyone interested in letting him know what you think about Sinan, the 8 year old grieving orphan sent back to detention alone.

    If you agree with that policy, of course, send away. Maybe Mr Bowen will be ashamed to find his policy pleasing you. :)

    minister@immi.gov.au

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    • rainbow

      i’ve emailed him too, thanks for posting his email

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    • Nadine

      Email sent.

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      • Skils

        me too. that poor little chap.

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        • Skils

          I also shot one off to KRudd – I’m here to help. Yes, I know he is Foreign Aff. but he said he was here to help… so I am asking for some help for that little boy who needs hugs, love and to know that the loss of his family counts for something. You know what makes me really mad??? that the govt/immi will send that little chap back to where he came from on the basis that ‘he has family there’. His family came here for a fresh start and to give him a better chance in life. Surely we can do that for him??? Gosh, I’ll take him.

          Kevin.Rudd.MP@aph.gov.au

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    • Tali James

      Thanks WillaWay – email sent :)

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    • Anonymous

      Thanks for the suggestion – have also sent one to my local MP and the Prime Minister – see http://www.pm.gov.au/contact-your-pm

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      • Skils

        Thanks Anon. Ripped off another email to dept of immigration, KRudd and the PM this morning and I think I just might bombard them again this afternoon. I woke up at 4.00am thinking about Sinan and I just feel I want to do something to help him and ensure that his family did not die in vain. I read that he has family in NSW who would take him and that makes sense to me. He can be with family while going through the process of applying for refugee status etc etc. Sinan is 8years old. Honestly, I just want someone with a lot of love and compassion to be there for him. Who is going to wrap their arms around him when he wakes in the night crying for his mother in a detention centre? Anyway, onwards and upward.

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  46. Nadine

    I find it so incredibly sad and disappointed when Australians show anti sentiment to asylum seekers. To me, I think there would be nothing worse than being born in an authoritarian country where as an example you are an ethnic minority and persecuted at every opportunity, including your life and that of your families being at risk daily. If you were in this situation would you not try EVERYTHING in your power to get out of this situaton. I know I definitely would. Why else would people put themselves and their childrens lives at risk. We live in one of the luckiest countries in the world so compassion to these people should come easily to us. We are the lucky ones and we should never forget that. Compassion and empathy to asylum seekers should come easy to us lucky ones. I cannot even begin to understand the horror that these people have endured losing their loved ones in this circumstance in addition to whatever they were running from. Please let’s help these people and show compassion as best we can.

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    • Seahorse

      I agree, it is really sad when Australian’s aren’t compassionate, because we do have it good and we can afford to be. But frankly, I think it shows greater compassion and strength of national character to invest compassion in alleviating their circumstances at home, helping them seek refuge in a safe way, or at the very least picking up their leaky boat before it disintegrates. We fail when we wait until we are flying them to a funeral to show our “compassion”.

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      • Kathy W

        Seahorse you have got to be kidding me. You say we ‘have it good’ and ‘can afford to be compassionate’ – but only when it suits – and only to ‘our own’

        Put your selfish self in the position of one of these people. Wouldn’t you beg for help? Wouldn’t you long for someone to reach out and give you a safe place to rest? Think about what it might be like to live in terror every.single.day.

        Yes we are ‘flying them to a funeral to show our compassion’ – and I applaud that.

        People here are fine. We have clean water. We have health care. We have education. We have civil order. We have enough food.

        Try and just GET IT!

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      • larry

        Agree that it is important to alleviate circumstances at home and improve the process for people seeking refugee status through official channels. Both are great long-term strategies but it can’t be a ‘one or the other’ solution to this issue. People will continue to arrive on boats for years to come (Australia can’t single-handedly create world peace or change UN processes) so we need to ensure all our dealings with refugee status seekers are humane and we treat them like we would like our family and friends to be treated. Here and now.

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  47. Karlos

    I don’t think it is accurate to say that a Shadow Minister commenting on the actions of a Minister in the administration of his portfolio is politicising human life or death. The decision is a political one, no matter how you cut it. No decision by a Minister in the administration of his portfolio should be excluded from examination or discussion on emotional grounds. After watching you on TV this morning I am also surprised that a member of the media scrum would be so outraged at the reasonable discussion of a decision such as this after the way in which Riley was defended by his journalistic colleagues after the unethical treatment he dished out to Abbot over the s*@t happens comment. That was done for political reasons as much as any others. No-one likes a double standard and no-one likes to see a questionable political decision protected behind some sort of emotional priveledge.

    I agree that we need to retain our humanity no matter the political issues associated with Asylum Seekers. I agree that we should, as a Country, a Nation, display, within reason, compassion to other human beings and meet our obligations to assist genuine refugees.

    I don’t think our humanity is at risk if our Government decided that providing airfares and accomodation and security for 22 people who sought to enter the country illegally was outside the appropriate scope of their involvement. I don’t think we show a lack of compassion by refusing to fly 22 people all the way from Christmas Island to Sydney (on the other side of a rather large continent)and back, with overnight accomodation and a full security contingent, when other more reasonable arrangements could have been made.

    Perhaps the funerals could have been held on Christmas Island. Perhaps appropriate memorial services or some other suitable ceremony could have been held there if there were reasons for other functional aspects of the process to have been undertaken in Sydney. One can be compassionate in many ways. One can display one’s humanity without a demonstration of largesse that is not afforded to all others who are unable to attend the funeral of loved ones due to distance or finances.

    And one should remember that there is a voluntary assumption of risk in attempting hazardous sea voyages in unseaworthy craft. The adults who place the lives of minors at risk in this way should bear responsibility for the consequences of these actions. We have, it must be remembered, plenty of Embassy’s where asylum can be applied for in the applicant’s own country without these risks. Often this approach is ignored in favour of illegal entry because there is the chance you can skip the formal requirements altogether when you know you don’t meet them, or because there are more favourable rights of appeal if you are refused refugee status (as the vast majority are because they in fact are not refugees) when you are already INSIDE our migration zone.

    One can act with Humanity and Compassion without abandoning a grip on the reality of a situation. One should also remember that how an individual may choose to act is necessarily quite different to how a Nation State must sometimes act when there are far larger issues at stake and far different responsibilities to consider. I’m sorry, but it just is and it’s naive in the extreme to pretend otherwise.

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    • imac

      “And one should remember that there is a voluntary assumption of risk in attempting hazardous sea voyages in unseaworthy craft. The adults who place the lives of minors at risk in this way should bear responsibility for the consequences of these actions.”

      Do you really think a parent would take such a risk with their child if they didn’t have good reason? It’s very easy to make these sorts of comments from the comfort of our free and democratic standing in Australia. Not everyone is so lucky.

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      • Karlos

        These parents have a very different view of risk than we do. They live in places with millitary action going on all around them and domestic situations that are at the best of times not exactly very pleasant. That doesn’t mean you take your infants on a voyage like this when there are other avenues you can and should exploit FIRST. We have Embassy’s in all of these “source countries”. Ask yourself how many of these asylum seekers have first sought asylum in an Australian Embassy in their country of origin, legally, before attempting to enter out country illegally and seek asylum from here?

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        • Bek

          Oh Karlos, how ironic that you bandy about the accusation of naiveté while swallowing without question the well-worn lie that these people have a choice.

          Of course, you are obviously well-informed about the situation faced by many of these people in their home countries–after all, you very generously conceded that their home environments are ‘not exactly very pleasant’.

          Get a clue, please.

          The reality of the situation is that the ‘legal’ avenues are dead ends. Australian consulates DO NOT accept applications directly from people seeking refugee status. You need to be referred by UNHCR, or sponsored by a family member already in Australia. And how did they get there? Probably by boat.

          Make no mistake Karlos, that there is no choice for these people. Believing that they have one is a choice YOU are making, to unburden yourself of the inconvenience of feeling a responsibility for them.

          But don’t take it from me–Abdul Karim Hekmat writes for the Age, and experienced the process first-hand 9 years ago.

          He says:

          “For most who leave their countries for safety, there is no choice other than a risky journey. The so-called ”queue” in which asylum seekers wait for an orderly process in a third country is a myth. In Pakistan, where I spent some time as a refugee, the UNHCR accepted hardly any applications. Pakistan accommodated between 3 and 4 million Afghan refugees. There would have been an inundation of applications. We knew the journey by boat was a last resort, and that we could lose our lives. The trauma of this journey has troubled many asylum seekers for years.”

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          • Caitlin

            Briliantly put Bec. Couldn’t agree more.

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          • A Van

            Everyone has a choice.

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            • Lilly

              But options to choose from may be limited…

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          • Karlos

            I have gone to the High Court on refugee and visa matters acting against the Government and have acted pro bono on many occasions. Once in the mid nineties I had a whole family of Iranians flood my reception area and hug me till I ached when we had a win. This was a case that went back to the Shah being deposed in 1979 and had traced itself across 3 different countries including Australia and Germany. The statements read like a James Clavell novel. I have a better clue than most, Bek and have shouldered the burden more than you ever have I would guess.

            The UNHCR “is mandated to lead and co-ordinate international action to protect refugees and resolve refugee problems worldwide. Its primary purpose is to safeguard the rights and well-being of refugees. It strives to ensure that everyone can exercise the right to seek asylum and find safe refuge in another State” They have a staff of 7,190 people in more than 120 countries working to help about 36.4 million people.

            The queue is not a myth, but all organisations get overwhelmed in times of crisis. And most asylum seekers attempting to get here by boat pass through a number of countries in which they could seek asylum and be granted refugee status before they get on the boat, pay a fortune, and attempt to reach our shores. Most are or could be safe before they attempt the passage to Australia. Having a preference for Australia as opposed to some other Country that is a signatory to the Convention is not a valid reason to place the lives of those dependent upon you at risk by getting on a rickety tub and crossing a treacherous ocean.

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            • Nadine

              Karlos, just interested as to why you have gone from defending the rights of asylum seekers to being critical of their intentions?

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            • Kathy W

              Are you a troll planted by One Nation?

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        • mabsy

          Well, I’m not sure of the numbers Karlos. You seem to have all the figures so I’m asking you. What *are* the numbers of people who “have first sought aslyum in an Australian Embassy…”?
          God, how many more times does it have to be said? IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO SEEK ASYLUM IN THIS COUNTRY.

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          • Karlos

            I don’t have exact numbers, it was a rhetorical question of course. That was clear I would have thought. I would expect that very few if any have gone down the UNHCR path before attempting illegal entry.

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            • Jeannie

              How can you be sure? Do you really think they’re stupid?

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        • Smithy

          What makes you think they haven’t? As you have already pointed out, they live in places with military action going on all around them. This tends to mean that there are way more asylum seekers than there are asylums. You will find that they have exhausted their available options before attempting to make such a journey – they’re attempting to survive, which for most humans means doing anything and everything necessary, especially those with families to take care of. One doesn’t jump on a boat and travel across the world as a first choice.

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          • Karlos

            I disagree. Many asylum seekers in Australia pass through other signatory countries to get here and could have sought asylum in other more convenient places. They did not because they wanted to come here because it’s a better place than those easier to get to places. I disagree that they have “exhausted their availablle options”. They frequently just prefer THIS option and as I have said, they view risk very differently. I have also seen many examples of refugees leaving the country in which they were already granted refugee status to go to another, “better” country and applying there as well. In some cases, once they get established in Country A they get tourist visas to Country B and just “overstay – ie disappear and never leave.

            Often also they know they will have trouble meeting the requirements for Refugee Status and so they look to enter a country illegally and disappear or they seek out a Jurisdiction that has a higher standard of living, “soft” laws and lots of generous appeal rights with free legal counsel to pursue them while being safely housed and fed in the interim. Like Australia

            That’s what makes me think they haven’t. Does that answer your question?

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            • Jeannie

              So their crime is that they want a ‘better’ country? What’s wrong with that? Can’t they have hopes for a better life?

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            • Carolyn

              Where did you read about refugees moving onto other “better’ countries? Where is all of this information coming from?
              I hear a lot of things, doesn’t make them facts.

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        • Jeannie

          How many Karlos, you’re obviously an authority on those individuals, how many did contact the embassies?
          I’ll make a wild guess that the man who’s father was murdered on the order of Sadaam Hussein and who has lost his wife & children in this disaster didn’t – I’ll guess he didn’t trust bureaucrats and wanted to just get the hell out of Iraq and no doubt he regrets it all now. Feel satisfied yet?

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          • Karlos

            I’m not commenting further after this, I’ve said what I have to say.

            Jeannie, I already said I did not know how many tried other avenues before getting on a boat from Indonesia or somewhere else. There is nothing to feel “satisfied” about. I am just putting forward a view, like everyone else.

            Carolyn – I was a Migration Agent as well as a lawyer for 15 years. I’m still a lawyer. I saw enough with my own eyes, saw a lot more in the cases I had to read, read a lot of the Department’s own material, heard a lot of stories from other agents and Barristers in this field etc etc.

            Jeannie, Refugee Status is not about wanting a better life. We all want a better life. Asylum Seekers are supposed to be fleeing persecution that threatens their lives. Its about safety, not Medicare, the Dole and great beaches. The treaties etc are all very clear about that. Asylum seekers are entitled to seek a safe country, not pick and choose which safe country, no matter how distant or perilous to reach, has the best social security system.

            Nadine – the world is not black and white. Many Asylum Seekers are just looking for an easier life in a nicer country. Thats a fact. I don’t blame them for that, but if we took on all of them the better life they seek would vapourise in a generation or less. I also know that many non-genuine asylum seekers will take huge risks in the pursuit of this better life on the assumption, the very cross-cultural, human assumption that the bad things will happen to someone else. Many asylum seekers are genuinley fleeing their countries one step in front of a death squad with their name on a to-do list. I have seen both typea and everything in between.

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            • Punkernickle

              I sympathise with asylum seekers, but really appreciate that you’ve put your perspective and experience here.

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            • Nadine

              Thanks Karlos, good to hear different perspectives.

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            • larry

              As a lawyer, why do you repeatedly state that seeking asylum when arriving on a boat is illegal?

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    • Dee

      I agree that “No decision by a Minister in the administration of his portfolio should be excluded from examination or discussion on emotional grounds”.

      But I think the reason that the Coalition decided to question this decision was not because they were truly concerned about how much it cost, but because it is an issue that will certainly ignite anger against the government, and in turn look favourably on the Coalition.

      Certainly, in the case of the current government, there is plenty of other spending going on that they could be called on by the Coalition, but instead the coalition chose this issue, one gauranteed to get traction in the media, and which comparatively, is probably not a great sum.

      I feel that in some ways, these poor people’s grief is being exploited by the coalition.

      I’m sure if they were genuinely interested in knowing the cost of the transportation and funeral expenses they could have done so without the media circus.

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      • Karlos

        I think they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. The job of the Opposition is to hold the government of the day to account for their actions and decisions and to make sure the public are aware of what they are up to. If they let it slide now and bring it up at a “more respectful” time, it has lost context and looks opportunistic, like they saved it up for a slow news day to beat them up with. “If this was such a philospical objection why did you wait to bring it up?”. The Government’s whole approach to Asylum seekers has been so badly flawed and irresponsible I think they need to be scrutinised carefully on everything they do in this space.

        The media are beating the hell out of it as well, but thats what they do.

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    • mere_male

      Karlos said:

      “The adults who place the lives of minors at risk in this way should bear responsibility for the consequences of these actions.”

      They did, They paid with their lives.

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  48. Dee

    Politicising this is really bad taste.

    How much could it have cost the government any way? I’m sure it was a drop in the ocean compared with the rest of government spending.

    Even if it did cost an exhorbitant amount, its still worth it and I for one am happy to know that my taxes pay for it.

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    • imac

      I agree with you Dee.

      The people who are grieving have been through so much. If we can help them to say goodbye, what’s wrong with that?

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  50. Alana

    I feel for these people and I know it’s not illegal to seek asylum. If I lived in some place like Afghanistan I’d climb on to the first boat too. But why couldn’t these people have been buried on Christmas Island? Many Aussies can’t afford to travel to funerals in other parts of the country and some are left with crippling funeral costs.

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    • Lisa

      One of the reasons given by the government for not holding the funerals on Christmas Island was because the families did not wish for this to happen. They wanted their loved ones buried somewhere that would be easily accessible in the future, for when they wish to pay their respects. To me, this seems reasonable.

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      • Alana

        It does seem reasonable and I’d want the same but I wouldn’t expect the government to cover the cost for me. Particularly if I arrived in a country unannounced and won’t ever have a chance to pay the cost back.

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        • Lisa

          Many refugees to go on to ‘pay the government back’. Many, many refugees go on to lead very productive lives here in Australia. They work and then, like any Australian citizen, they pay tax.

          I would not expect the government to fly me to attend a funeral either because I am a free woman, with the means and opportunity to provide for myself. I am not incarcerated.

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