Caroline de Costa was one of the first doctors in Australia authorised to prescribe RU486 for the purposes of abortion. But there’s more to the story. She writes:
Abortion is a very important health issue for Australian women, and the more information women have the more able they are to make informed decisions for themselves, and to help friends who may have unplanned pregnancies. While in an ideal world all pregnancies would be planned and wanted, as you all know in the real world this is not always the case, and sometimes women faced with an unexpected pregnancy have to make the decision that they are not able to become a mother at this point in their lives. Sadly, also, in some planned and wanted pregnancies the modern tests we now have for abnormalities in the developing baby show severe or even fatal abnormalities, and the woman may choose to terminate her pregnancy.
Increasingly medical methods are being used, overseas and in Australia, for termination of pregnancy. “Medical abortion” is the term used to describe abortion induced by legal, approved drugs. The best drug currently available is mifepristone, still better known to the general public as RU486, which is always used together with another drug, misprostol, to bring about an abortion. The woman experiences this process much like a spontaneous miscarriage: there is some bleeding and pain (pain relief is always offered) as the pregnancy is expelled.
Up to 9 weeks of pregnancy this process can safely occur in the woman’s home, provided she has a support person with her and knows how to access emergency care in the uncommon event that she needs to do so. After 9 weeks of pregnancy the process needs to take place in a hospital with suitably trained and dedicated staff.
You will recall that RU486 was unavailable to Australian women for many years as a result of the “Harradine Amendment” – a piece of legislation that meant that importing and marketing the drug required the special permission of the Federal Minister for Health. In 2006 four courageous women senators (Claire Moore, Lyn Allison, Judith Troeth and Fiona Nash) from across the political spectrum brought a private members’ bill to the Senate and then to the House of Representatives that overturned the Harradine Amendment.
However the change in the law did not mean that mifepristone became immediately available. It still requires a drug company to apply to, and gain approval from, the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) to market the drug. So far this hasn’t happened.
To make the drug available to Australian women some of us have used a special piece of TGA legislation, the Authorised Prescriber legislation, which allows us as doctors to import and use drugs recognised overseas but not available here, in Australia within our own practices. I first did this with Dr Mike Carrette in Cairns in 2006. Since then a free public clinic offering mifepristone has been developed in Cairns and I am also able to use the drug for women with severe medical conditions in pregnancy attending Cairns Base Hospital. However the very restrictive wording of Queensland abortion law continues to pose problems for individual women seeking abortion here and elsewhere in Queensland, and numerous women who don’t fall within the strict limits of this law have had to access abortion elsewhere, often travelling to Victoria where abortion has been decriminalised.
Over the past five years more than 100 doctors across Australia have joined myself and Dr Carrette to become Authorised Prescribers of mifepristone; they can be found in all states except Tasmania and the NT. However their ability to use the drug is confined to their own practices or hospitals, so while access for women to early medical abortion using mifepristone is relatively easy in capital cities including Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth, it is limited or non-existent for women in other urban areas and in rural and remote areas.
I am hopeful that within months there will be a successful application to the TGA to market the drug nationally and it will become available. Mifepristone will then be potentially available to all general practitioners wanting to use it, provided that women they treat have access to emergency care if needed during the abortion process.
At the same time, it is important that we address the fact that Australia does have a high rate of abortion, especially in comparison to some European countries such as Holland, Belgium and the Scandinavian countries, all of which have liberal approaches to the provision of abortion, but also excellent contraceptive services and contraceptive information services, and high-quality sex education in schools. These are areas where Australia must improve performance if we are to increase the proportion of pregnancies that are both planned and wanted.
Dr Caroline Da Costa is Professor of Obstetrics and Gynaecology at the James Cook University School of Medicine and Dentistry in Cairns. She has a strong interest in women’s reproductive health rights.








Comments
250 Comments so far
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I’m a nurse. I work in a childrens’ emergency department.
Do you know what I see a lot of?
I see a lot of children born to parents who are not able to look after them. I see teenagers who have been tossed through the care system who tell me that they wish they could die, and that they wish they’d never been born. I’ve looked after children who’ve been brought to our department by police because either parent has not been coping and that child has been in danger. This means that they have been, or are likely to be harmed; physically, sexually or emotionally. By people who brought them into this world. By people who did not want children and by people who chose not to terminate the pregnancy. I’m not saying these people should or should not have terminated the pregnancy. That is not for me to judge. What I am saying is that these children are often put in worse experiences when they are in “care”, than the harrowing experiences which caused them to be removed from their families in the first place.
I also care for a lot of profoundly disabled children. Severe cerebral palsy, developmental delays, severe epilepsy with seizures that can easily result in further brain damage. These children are in enormous amounts of pain, despite doses of pain relief that could knock out a large adult man. They’re on 2, 3, sometimes 4 charts of medication that needs to be given at exact times throughout the day. Their families have often gone from double income, to single income with the added expense of a child with a profound disability, in a health system that does not support home-care of the profoundly disabled well at all. These children cannot do anything independently; from washing, feeding, weeing, pooing, and have to have their position changed regularly throughout the day and night to ensure they don’t get pressure sores. These children are completely dependent on their parents and this doesn’t go for a year or two. This goes on for however long they are alive. This goes on until they day they die. Which might be tomorrow, or it might be in 10 or 20 or 50 or 60 or 80 years. A lot of these children are on palliative care plans, so there’s the added agony of knowing your child is going to die and waiting for it to happen. As well as this, there’s not only the basics of parenting, but various medical paraphenalia that is required to manage these children; feeding tubes to stomachs, bi-pap machines, feeding tubes down noses, lines in arms and legs and chests and necks for IV access, etc etc. All of these can malfunction at any time, which will require a race to the local hospital to get it replaced/fixed/antibiotics for infections, etc. etc. etc.
So to all of the pro-life/anti-choice people, let me ask you this. Why aren’t you lining up to foster the children who don’t have homes? Why are community services having to place children in boarding houses because they have no where to go? Why are children admitted to hospital, without even being sick, because community services cannot find a home for them? Where are you, with all your values of changing lives, saving lives, etc. Why aren’t you offering your hearts and your homes to these children who desperately need you?
Where are you when my palliative care, profoundly disabled children’s parents are struggling financially? Why aren’t you dontating in-home carers, helping buy wheelchairs, or even the menial things like feeds and medications and nappies? all the energy you are spending raising awareness and bringing attention to your plight of the unborn….you should be ashamed of yourselves. There are children and families who desperately need your media air time to get assistance for something that has been thrown on them and has turned their lives upside down.
I won’t tell anyone that it’s not their right to have a child, or chose to not have a child. Every patient I look after with the same level of care and compassion. But it doesn’t help but break my heart when I see children who are literally in agony and I cannot do anything about it.
My challenge to you is, if you intend to protest about rights, foster a child, preferably one with a profound disability that is being managed in a group home (yes, they do have them for children). Then tell me about rights.
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Ella, you have hit the nail on the head. If only all those pro-life people could walk a mile in someone else’s shoes, they might reconsider their stance on this issue. That is what irritates me the most – it is never black and white. There are so many different circumstances to consider in relation to an unwanted pregnancy, such as teen pregnancy, rape, severerly disabled foetus, the mental health of the mother, financia reasons etc etc, that surely we should let doctors decide on a case-by-case basis whether abortion is the best decision, for that particular woman.
Thank god there are people like you who choose a career caring for other people, and make these kids’ lives better, even for one day at a time.
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Thank you for agreeing with me & not making me feel like I’m the only one in the world who thinks like this!
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Beautifully said Ella…
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Thanks!
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You. Totally. Rock. Fucking awesome.
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well, I can’t say that is often said of me!
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Three cheers for Ella!
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Heh. Total ego boost. I shall hang around here more often. Glad you agree.
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I’m pro-choice – I don’t think its the government’s job to interfere with women’s rights to make decisions about their bodies.
I do agree with Dr Da Costa in relation to contraception too though. As a taxpayer I would happily support the provision of free advice and free contraceptives to all women to enable more choice.
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I am pro-choice. There are too many children born into this world already to parents who cannot or do not look after them or love them the way all children deserved to be loved and looked after.
I’m 30 now, but when I was in school and uni, a lot of my friends were careless and didn’t always use contraception, thinking that they probably wouldn’t get pregnant, and if they did, they’d simply have an abortion. Many of them did have abortions, and one particular friend had 3. I think this attitude needs to be stopped, through increased sex education (as Caroline suggests).
Also, I want to add that whilst adoption seems like a perfect solution to some people who have commented here, I think that giving a baby up for adoption causes so much grief for the birth mother, that this isn’t really a great solution either. My own mother fell pregnant with a baby she felt she was unable to support – both physically and mentally. She gave this baby up for adoption, as abortion was not an option for her, due to her circumstances at the time. Even though she has since met the baby she adopted out (and he is fine), she has never got over the immense guilt of giving her baby up, worrying about him for all those years, and as a result, has suffered from depression all her life.
After suffering from post-natal-depression a few years ago after the birth of my second child, I realise that the world is not black and white – you never know what another person is going through and their ability (or inability) to cope with a situation. Don’t judge. If you don’t agree with abortion, don’t have one. Simple as that.
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Life is so much more grey, and less black and white, as I’ve got older.
As a starting point – completely pro choice having had an abortion myself. No regrets – absolutely right decision. Also am not religious – possbily athiest but I’m not entirely comfortable with that term – perhaps more a fence sitter agnostic!!
20 years later, if I suddenly found myself pregnant, would i make the same decision? And would that decision be as easy to make as it was previously? I really don’t know. There’s a part of me (and this is a judgement on me – not on any other individual and their choices – I absolutely 100% believe in every womans right to choose) that does now wonder when does a foetus actually become a life and when does making a decision like this become about being selfish rather than taking resbonsibility for my actions.
Do I want a child? No. Would it complicate my life? Yes. Would i struggle with making the same decision this tim around. Most definately. But would I make a different decision? Most likely not. But would it sit as easily? I really don’t know..
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What ever happened to abstinence? The only girls I know who never worried about an unwanted pregnancy were the girls who didn’t have sex…and before you all jump on the band wagon about “women’s choices” this is coming from a women struggling with her fertility in her 30s who exercised her right at 19 for a termination.
What legacy are we leaving our girls when we say “get rid of it young” but at 45 say “go for it – albeit with donor eggs”. Is this what feminism has left us with? I bloody despair if it is.
Lately I have been thinking that if young girls were now offered the modern version of the homes/facilities where unwed pregnant girls had babies in the 60s, the termination rate and adoption rates would be greatly improved.
Cant we all think outside the box on this issue?
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Feminism left you choice. Sometimes people will make bad choices, or regret choices made. Thats why education is considered vital in this article.
Feminism doesn’t force one model on all women.
Your idea of having an out-of-sight home for young women to have children is interesting and certainly out of the box. I wish you good luck.
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Idle Dad, I’ve been following your comments on this article and it’s a late reply but I think I love you.
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Abstinence has never been and will never be a a solution to anything.
I suppose if we revert to locking women up and other unpleasant cultural practices then maybe abstinence would have a look in.
(You could substitute ‘man’ for ‘woman’ in this sentence but no society ever has!)
I am sorry that you have personal issues with abortion and fertility, but you can’t let your emotions dictate policy for all women.
Is it really an option to have pregnant women, live away from their lives and loved ones to produce babies for other people?
Sound to me like you are thinking very much inside a box. A very creepy, unpleasant, regressive box.
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Wow- I know more than a few people who abstinence is working for….one only has to see the interview with Charlotte Dawson who has learned in her 40s that sex complicates things. Don’t confuse abstinence with some weird Christian thing. It is, and always has been, a lifestyle choice. And since when did abstinence mean locking women up??? Its a choice, not a jail sentence!
And where did I say that women would “have” to live away from their families? In my mind, if women/girls were OFFERED the opportunity to go somewhere where they could be cared for and looked after whilst pregnant before they gave birth, with as much or as little privacy as they wanted, they might indeed CHOOSE this over a termination.
Me in a regressive box? I think you are the judgmental and weird one here. You see words like “abstinence” and “home for pregnant women” and automatically make assumptions and huge generalisations.
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There is such a history with the “homes” for teenage unwed expectant girls that of course it will bring up the image of those homes that were so notorious years ago. IMO thinking outside the box means educating BOTH genders. I don’t have a problem with teaching abstinence as part of a broader sex education.
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Abstinence will not work for entire societies of people. It can only ‘work’ when other drastic measures are taken.
One or two examples of abstainers here and there do not suggest it is a viable option for keeping society’s unwanted pregnancies away.
And I did not use the words “have to”. And you didn’t answer my question…
It would be great if you read my post without assumptions as to what you think I’m about to say. Then you might actually read what I’ve written!
(Oh, cheers for the name calling! Remember it’s about the behaviour, not the person…:-))
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You are making no sense. I never said society as a whole had to abstain from sex! And as for your question, why cant it be an option for young girls?
And as for name calling I believe you started it by by saying I was regressive and creepy.
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Read my comment I never said *you* were “regressive and creepy.”
However you definitely did say that I was “judgmental and weird”.
(the “you sarted it” thing reads a bit primary school)
I’ll pass your “unwed mother” idea on to Margaret Atwood- she can probably do some sort of “Handmaids Tale” thing with it!
I shall now go and have a rational conversation with my 3 year old. Good-luck with your abstinence thing.
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Hmmm, out the box? How about right back into it….
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I remember working in a theater which I assisted in suction terminations, and glanced at notes to see the background to the unwanted pregnancy occurring, some women were having 2nd and third abortions.
There are always some cases where women took all precautions but were unlucky but far too many who just hope for the best if they miss a pill or are taking antibiotics.
We have stop smoking advertisements and driver education adds on tv, why after 9pm can’t we have ones on key points about contraception? Isn’t termination of possible lives and all the money spent providing often preventable abortions worth that?
It is also a pity thinking of how hard it is to adopt for childless couples and so many unwanted pregnancies around.
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“There are always some cases where women took all precautions but were unlucky but far too many who just hope for the best if they miss a pill or are taking antibiotics.”
“Isn’t termination of possible lives and all the money spent providing often preventable abortions worth that?”
You’re right! We do need education. I’d bet a lot of teenagers and young women (and even older women) don’t know that if you miss a pill on the last 7 coloured tablets, you should skip the white tablets for that month and go straight to the next tablet. Likewise, a lot of women probably aren’t reminded by their doctors about the risk of contraception failing when they take antibiotics. Put this needs to happen in conjunction with providing safe abortions to women who choose to have them.
“It is also a pity thinking of how hard it is to adopt for childless couples and so many unwanted pregnancies around.”
While it is sad that some couples have fertility problems, the whole point of pro-choice is that women can choose to be pregnant/have a child. Implying that women should go forward with a pregnancy in order to be a surrogate is not a good path to go down. Pregnancy is a risky proposition for a lot of women – if they don’t want to do it, they should be able to make that choice. Having a surrogate pregnancy is not a decision that should be *forced* on people.
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Wow, you never stop, do you Caroline? How much abortion will be enough?
It is ludicrous to try and imply that RU-486 is safe. Time and time again, most recently in South Australia their own records show MORE hospitalisations and MORE treatment needed after abortion using this toxic drug.
NO abortions are safe – they all destroy a baby and they all harm women!
Why not offer help to support women birth their child? There is no unwanted babies – the loving arms of adoptive parents are waiting to hold these precious bundles.
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Most people don’t want to be surrogate parents.
Women are not baby making machines for the infertile.
Who, exactly do you care about ?
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Oh please. There are plenty of unwanted babies. Try reading a newspaper. Many of them end up dead at the hands of their parents who are unable to cope. Forcing women to give birth to babies they don’t want is a recipe for child abuse.
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Clearly you’re unbiased…..not.
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My abortions did not hurt me???
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If all abortions harm women, as you so glibly claim, where are all these women suffering immense physical problems? Where are all the women who have been sent crazy by an abortion? Our hospitals and psych services should be overflowing with them, if what you claim is true. Oh that’s right – you’ve got no proof to back up your outrageous claims.
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Interesting talk about contraception.
One one hand: I know some people that have managed to get pregnant while using two forms of contraception, for example on The Pill and using condoms. I know quite a lot of people who have got pregnant on The Pill although often there was a reason e.g. mixed it with antibiotics, had an upset stomach/gastro and didn’t use a back-up method, got drunk and threw up and didn’t use a back-up method. But for some of these people, they took THe Pill religiously with no interference and it just happened to be in the small percentage that failed. I also know people, like m05, who have been pregnant numerous times and had several abortions ALL while using some form of contraception.
On the other hand: I know people that have either been extremely uncareful over a long period of time or have been trying to get pregnant for years and NOTHING.
Some people are just more fertile than others. Also, sometimes a partcular combination of two people can’t make a baby, but both those people can conceive with others (heard of this happening numerous times).
As for abortion, I’m 100% pro choice, however i don’t condone it as a form of contraception. I met a woman in China who’d had so many abortions she’d lost count but ti was probably close to 20 (lack of sex ed over there). She got pregnant to her husband and he tried to make her abort the baby because it was a girl but the doc told her that was a bad idea and she didn’t want to have another abortion so they kept it. Anyway, aborting girls in particular countries is another issue ENTIRELY…don’t want to write an essay here! That’s my two cents worth anyway
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This article makes me SO angry and SO unbelievably sad. I’m Christian and while I don’t fight to the death about gay marriage (I don’t think it’s God’s plan, but it seems inevitable and banning marriage doesn’t stop sex anyway), I can’t believe that abortion is presented as totally ‘okay’ in this article. When did it become alright to kill a human being? When did adoption become a non-option? When did people start disregarding the science that a baby has DIFFERENT DNA and is therefore NOT part of the mother’s body? What is the limit? What age would you consider my baby a human? What if someone stabs me in the stomach when I’m pregnant? Is that not a murder because it was ‘only a foetus’? If you consider abortion is okay, than what right do you have to offer condolences to a woman who has had a miscarriage? After all, they didn’t lose their baby, it was only tissue right? Why should they be sad?
When did I become public enemy number one for standing up for the rights of a human being? Once that baby is born, I would be a hero if I saved it from a fire. Why am I publicly abused for caring about that child in utero?
The world has gone mad.
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Hi Kit, I understand that your religion is a big factor here but I ask you to consider that many people who have abortions do it because they care about the life an unborn baby might have and take a very brave step in order to end it. I think we have enough pain and suffering in this world without bringing people who will be unhappy into it. I get that you think a bunch of cells is a person, but I ask you even if it is, does it deserve to be bought into a world were it may not be loved and cared for?
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technically homicide laws only apply to children that actually have been born alive- if someone were to do that they’d only be charged with grievous bodily harm…
I don’t think anyone suggested that you were ‘public enemy number one’ – the discussion here actually stayed fairly respectful tbh
Adoption isn’t a non-option but surely you can see that adoption has many consequences for the birth mother- everyone in your life from the guy at your local coffee shop to uni lectures and co-workers would see you pregnancy and you would have to explain to each of them that you had given your baby up for adoption – sure it’s an amazing gift that your giving someone but it really isn’t always an option.
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Not to mention family members. I had a termination 2 years ago and no-one but my husband knows. We have 2 children and could not cope with another. My family are very religious and there is no way they would have accepted my decision. Also I know if I had the baby I would not have been able to give it away, for me there is a huge difference between giving away a living baby and terminating a pregnacy (to me, only a potential baby). I would have ended up with a baby I couldn’t look after as well as I would want to.
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Don’t want an abortion? Don’t get one.
But it is NOT your right to choose what other women do with their bodies.
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Fortunately your god’s “plan” isn’t considered when it comes to making the laws of this country.
If you are morally against abortion, don’t have one. Fortunately in most states of this country we have the ability to make a choice. You can choose not to do it, but please refrain from judging those who choose to legally and safely have one.
Also, I offer my condolences when someone miscarries because they are grieving. They are grieving the loss of a foetus, but also they are grieving the life that they would have had, if the child had been born. They grieve for the future that is now vastly different from the one they imagined. I offer my support and condolences to these people because I have a moral code, ungoverned by religion, which allows me to feel empathy, compassion and sadness for the pain that they are going through. I would wager that many women who have abortions also feel sadness and grieve, and I do not believe that the decision to have an abortion is made lightly,
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For what it’s worth Kit, I agree with you. We get all caught up in women’s rights and the disasters that take place in backyard abortion clinics when discussing this and miss the deeper issue.
As someone earlier said, sex needs to be re-connected with consequences. Like most things in life, rights cannot be disconnected from responsibility.
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Backyard abortion only proliferate when women’s reproductive rights are taken away through laws based on archaic religious ideas.
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Here we go… off on a tangent. Backyard abortions do not in and of themselves make abortion wrong. They are only a side issue and something I think all of us would condemn. Kit has brought up the deeper issue of the definition of life and points out that individual DNA means that the foetus is not actually part of the mother’s body in the way that her own organs, tissue, etc are. Yes, a woman’s body is her own to do with as she pleases. But the foetus inside her – by definition of its own DNA – is NOT part of her body.
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It is dependent upon the mother for it’s progression from a potential independent life to an independently alive being. Whether anyone likes it or not, this kinda gives the mother final say.
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So it’s parasite?
Don’t get me wrong, parasites or not I love my kids! I’m just not sure where we’re going here.
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What exactly is your point?
Sex has consequences, so….
…no-one should have sex?
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Ummmm…. No! My point is that sex comes with responsibilities – responsibilities to the other party and to self and should be enterend into with due consideration. My point is that a person’s rights are always tempered by their responsibilities. Otherwise we would be living in a state of anarchy!
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Well, we’re not living in a state of anarchy.
I think most people understand the basics of cause and effect.
I’m still not sure what you are trying to say.
Are you saying that if you shag you might get pregnant and that you will have to deal with it?
Because all of that is fairly obvious.
How does this relate to a discussion of the abortion pill or contraceptives?
Am I missing the Deeper Issues again?
Help me out- are you simply anti-choice?
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Ok…try again… As far as I can see it, the issue here is not RU486, contraceptives, abstinence, womens’ rights, etc. The real crux of this issue is life – what defines it, when does it begin. Looking at my 2-month baby, what is the difference between him now, and in-utero? He is breathing alone, yes, but he is no more independant. He will not really be physically independant until he is able to feed and clothe himself. So, what is the difference? I can’t see that he was any less himself when in utero. And he is not yet his fully developed self and won’t be for a long time!
As far as I can see it, stepping in and stopping an ongoing, viable pregnancy is no different to stopping the life of an infant. So yes, I am against abortion in principle. Anti-choice? Which choice? I am very much FOR a woman’s right to choose to use contraceptive methods both pharmecutical and natural. I am also very much FOR education in these matters to avoid as many unwanted pregnancies as possible. Please – spare the space if you want to rant about womens’ rights and brand me archaic or masochistic or whatever. Unless you can, within the limits of science and common sense, define life otherwise, I can’t see how any other conclusion can be drawn. To kill a single celled organisim or even a parasite is still to kill. Life is not defined by independence or by breath!
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I have been studying ethics in healthcare as part of my uni course, it has some interesting things in the textbook that made me think.
Feminist Judith Jarvis Thompson took a different approach to the abortion debate – she examined whether abortions might be morally admissible even if we accept full moral status for both mother and foetus. She uses the following analogy:
Imagine a situation where you wake up one day to find yourself kidnapped by a group of musician lovers who have grafted a violinist onto your back. This unlikely situation had occured because the violinist was suffering from a rare disease that could only be alleviated by attachment to the reader’s bloodstream and kidneys. If the violinist was unattached again, he would certainly die.
Thompson uses this ficitonal situation to argue that, while it would be commendable to remain grafted to the violinist, there is no real obligation to do so. No one could demand that you continue in this way, and any law which insisted on it would be clearly unjust. This is a situation in which, even though we must grant full moral rights to both parties, there is still no absolute obligation for the independent person to keep the dependent person alive.
What Thompson attempts to show is that there is a great difference between the claim that a person has a right to life, and the claim that other people are obliged to do whatever is necessary to keep them alive, or be forced to do so.
The above is paraphrased from ‘Ethics and Law for the Health Professions’, by Kerridge, Lowe & Stewart 2009. An interesting perspective that I had not considered before, what does everyone think?
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Wow, I’ve never heard that before. That’s really interesting.
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I think Thompson’s argument is flawed, as in the case of her scenario the person had no role in the grafting of the violinist to their back. They were completely innocent and unconscious of what was happening until it was done and were asked to live with the consequences. Although this may be argued in the case of rape, it doesn’t hold up in the broader discussion of abortion as, usually speaking, the woman had an active part in creating the foetus inside her and thus holds some responsibility for its survival or otherwise.
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I am 100% pro-choice but I agree with Meg that it’s a silly analogy.
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I actually find that a ridiculous argument. People don’t just wake up one day to find themselves pregnant!
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I love this post! i think i was 17 or so when i heard about RU486. i had just gone through the Catholic school obligatory “abortion is bad m’kay?” I had finally started to see. That nothing is ever black and white. I also got made to watch “The silent scream” when my mum was contemplating a termination. But in the balance i find that we need to teach kids what they are doing. I like to think of sex as exercise (with some people) but it can also be life changing. But we need the conversations stop being squeamish and have at it!!!
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So true Melissa. I am a school counsellor and am working with a beautiful student who has had an abortion and coping with this huge decision she has had to take, and will be with this for the rest of her life. My job is not to scare students and keep information from them (and they’ll have sex anyway so this is completely irresponsible), but to help them see the full picture of the decisions they make. I don’t ever like to portray sex as bad, shameful or wrong because I don’t believe it is, but powerful and something to be respected.
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You sound like a magnificent addition to your school!
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Abortion is certainly an incredibly difficult topic and perhaps I’m being simplistic… But isn’t it always a risk falling pregnant when you have sex? I’m not anti-abortion at all, quite the opposite, but perhaps we need to re-associate sex with consequences – be they positive or negative – and respect that it is powerful. Maybe we are removing ourselves as a society, or as women, too much from this power, hence women who are disraught when they have taken careful steps to prevent pregnancy and are still pregnant, and thus must endure the trauma of termination. Yes, abortion is serious, because really, so is sex (even if we don’t see it at the time… And of course it can be wonderful too!). When we deal with something so powerful, perhaps we need to do so fully aware of how it can change us. I’m not suggesting don’t have sex, but perhaps really understand that it’s consequences aren’t always able to be controlled by you or your partner.
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I don’t feel comfortable with the idea that sex is so solemn, serious or necessarily powerful.
It is a biological urge and not everyone wants to look at it as a life altering act and in ‘this day and age’ perhaps we shouldn’t have to.
Christians can keep it as a ‘sacrament’. Other people may just wish to embrace their animal selves and just enjoy.
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Sure… Embrace your animal urge… Have fun! Sex is wonderful! I’m a big fan myself
But you can’t always control what happens, and it’s important to be aware of this. Pregnancy is a by-product of sex and certainly that is why people choose to use contraception (and to prevent STDs etc.), but there is always a risk. When I drive my car, there is always a risk that I might have an accident. I take steps to prevent that as much as possible, I still continue to drive even though I know this and driving is very handy and pleasurable at times. I like to think that I am in control when I drive, but realistically, there are things I cannot control. The act of driving is a risk – a risk with great benefits – but ultimately a risk.
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I assume that if you did have a car accident, you’d reject medical assistance then? Because you knew the risks, yeah?
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A bit harsh dad.
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I think Idle Dad has misunderstood me. I’m not against abortion at all, (or any medical intervention for that matter!) and women have a right to make choices, sometimes excruciatingly difficult ones, about their bodies and their lives.
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Anon I think this applies to soooo many things. We can easily forget how out of control we really are until something goes not to plan. Condoms can break, roads can be misjudged, we can get sick.
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So true Belly… We can’t control all things even though sometimes we believe we can. Life can lead us anywhere, unexpectedly…
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“perhaps we need to re-assosciate sex with consequences”
Hear hear! Absolutely.
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Slightly off topic… I am 40 and have no children despite the fact that I would love to have a child. I keep recalling a time when I was about 30 and had a “one-’day’” stand, panicked and took the morning after pill. I know there is only a small chance that I would have become pregnant from the encounter…. and I have never heard from the guy again so that’s no way to have a baby.. BUT part of me still regrets it just in case it was my only opportunity to have a child and for me there is still the unanswered question of when life begins..
(NOTE: I am NOT against abortion for those that want/need it. I am just against abortion for me because I want a baby! Please understand the difference!!)
Just on my mind….
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i had an abortion last month. I live on the Gold Coast and rang a clinic in Southport about 5 min away from me. They offered the surgical procedure and the RU486 drug. After all the explaining about how the drug works there was no way I was going to go through all that, pain , nausea etc. The surgical procedure is so quick and pain free, not even any bleeding afterwards. I am wondering if the concerns about QLD abortion laws are only a problem for women further north??
Anyway, my husband and i have the opposite problem of many couples, we are TOO fertile. I have now had three abortions. My first was 10 years ago, we have five children, the youngest is 13 and a half. so back then we aborted because we felt our family was done. The second pregnancy happened when I was on the pill, levlen ED. So my husband had a vasectomy becuase we didn’t want to risk it again. But last month, that morning sickness kicked in and I just knew. Apparently the bodies instinct to reproduce is so strong that in some people tubes will reconnect and all that. This is what our doctor explained to us. All this and I am 40 next year and my husband is 51. So now we are having talks with our doctor about what to do from now on.
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Wow M05, that is such an eye opener. I had no idea some people can just break-through conceive through so many contraceptives. it really highlights the importance of having termination as an option (one of the reasons, there are many many more I know)
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I’m sorry but I don’t believe that is possible, M05.
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My sister got pregnant on the pill taking it religiously and with implanon in her arm.
My MIL got pregnant with an IUD in and after she had a ligation (can’t remember which one, but the clamp wasn’t on properly).
Whilst I think that by and large people use crappy contraception or don’t use it properly etc causing pregnancies, there are super fertile people.
I am not one of them!
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Which bit? I’ve just had a vasectomy (four kids, I know how M05 feels) and the doctor did explain that the body absolutely tries to re-link the tubes.
Our first child was also conceived while my wife was taking contraception.
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Spontaneous re-canalization has been reported in less than 1% of patients after getting the all clear from follow up semen samples after a vasectomy. My mother also fell pregnant while taking the pill, fertile bunch we are!
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HOw horrid. Actually a good friend from uni’s brother had one and lo and behold suprise #3, how horrid when they already completed their family. Why they chose to continue with the pregnancy I do not know, but that’s their business.
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Ahhh, well. As long as you don’t believe it- I suppose it doesn’t happen!
I’ve heard of us all constructing our own realities, but wow…
M05- sorry your honesty is being called into question. A lot of us prefer science to the “well, I think” argument!
I know a family just like yours!
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Wow. Perhaps you should try researching before calling someone a liar. It is possible. My cousins and I all have large families and a few abortions between us because it is ridiculously easy for us to conceive.
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I’ve met women who have had a baby after tubal ligation.maybe you should do some research. It can happen, not often, but can and does happen. That’s why when my husband had a vasectomy, it wasnt just a simple snip.
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I am a health care professional – specialising in sexual education. The pill itself is actually a lot more reliable than people think. It’s person taking it that lowers it’s credibility.
IF you take it at the same time every day (without missing a beat), have regular (normal) bowel movements (e.g. you are not ‘unwell’) and no vomiting, etc etc, then the pill is next to flawless.
The number of people I come across who say “the pill isn’t even 100% effective” make me reply along the lines of “it’s actually a lot better than you think, it’s actually the person taking it that’s not 100% reliable”.
There hasn’t been one person I’ve come across who can stand there with an unwanted pregnancy and genuinely say that they had taken the pill with 100% care and covered themselves whenever they feel there’d been a glitch in their taking it. There is a lot more responsibility involved in ‘being on the pill’ than many people realise.
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Completely agree, I have first hand experience. Perfect use effectiveness is different to recorded actual use effectiveness rates.
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I’ll be your one person “who can stand there with an unwanted pregnancy and genuinely say that they had taken the pill with 100% care and covered themselves whenever they feel there’d been a glitch in their taking it. ”
i had an abortion some years ago – i had been on the pill, but unwell, so used a condom, which broke, so I got the morning after pill…didn’t work…… buh booowrr….pregnant.
yes it’s unusual, but yes it can happen to anyone – luck of the draw/fate. Noone can say I was careless about my contraception. If I didn’t have the option, goodness knows how I would have coped, the thought of having a child was unthinkable to me at the time, and I’ve never regretted my decision.
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Oh no! Absolutely! What a freak of nature in terms of the unlikeliness, but still possible, chain of events! Power to you! And I can genuinely say that my reactions to the given set of circumstance would have mimicked yours precisely.
All I was saying was that the pill itself is not the ‘blame’ it’s the extenal factors, no matter how genuinely unfortunate they may be.
Congratulations Anonymous on the way you handled a truly sticky situation. No matter how easy of hard the decision was for you. Aren’t we lucky we have a range of choices available to us. I hope you had all the support needed around you at the time and enjoy a happy and healthy experience when it is time to start a family for you.
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I do not believe that more education about contraception is going to solve the problem of unwanted pregnancies. There is plenty of information readily available yet I am staggered to meet teenage girls who are having sex with their boyfriend, putting their trust in a condom. There is a failure rate, and some people are not using condoms according to the text book,. These girls acknowledge that they know there is a failure rate but engage in sex anyway not seeming to worry about the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy.
Some women admit that they kind of want a baby, there is some ambivalence so they don’t worry about contraception and then when they get pregnant they decide to terminate and may have done this multiple times. it is not lack of information about contraception, or lack of access to contraception but some women’s mental attitude to possibility of becoming pregnant,
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Hi all – I’ll second a few of the comments here about being impressed by how respectful ppl’s posts are
it’s very heartening!
I can only imagine a couple of quite extreme scenarios where I would decide to have an abortion, but a lot of that has to do with the very positive and hands on support I’d receive from my family, so I tend not to comment when it comes to the abortion debate – but I will make a comment on the contraception side of things.
My long term partner and I always use the pill and condoms. We’ve never not used both. But when I’ve mentioned this to ppl (ie in those girly chats u have w your mates) the general reaction is that our contraceptive technique is overkill. ‘why would you bother w condoms if you’re on the pill’ is a common reaction. We bother because as is widely known and commented on here – no contraceptive alone is 100% effective. And if we have to choose between the life-altering concept of having a baby (even if that is w great family support) or getting bf to chuck on a condom while I’m on the pill, then we choose the combo option.
This is just a genuine thought – but I am now wondering if our ‘zealous’ approach has something to do w the fact that I generally don’t see abortion as an option for myself. I’m in no way suggesting that we limit abortion services to test run how it affects contraceptive practices, but I am curious about whether at the back of ppl’s minds, they allow themselves to lax a bit w the contraception (I know plenty of ppl who occasionally ‘slip up’) because deep down they know they have another way out of parenthood?
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RU486 has been found to be unsafe and unpredictable compared to a surgical abortion. If someone is going to have an abortion it appears surgical abortion is the way to go
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3991
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I had a look at your link and I’m not impressed.
RU486 has not been found to be unsafe etc. This is just one woman’s opinion. There is no proper evidence…
Look, I’m just going to say it. The woman comes across as a bit of a kook and I was reminded of the Australian Vaccination Network as I read her article.
It is my understanding that the author of the above article, Dr De Costa has commented on Dr Kleins objections.
DR DE COSTA: “an obstetrician who has studied international evidence that she says shows it to be a safe and acceptable alternative to surgical abortion.
Further, Professor De Costa said Dr Klein’s views were “very selective and impassioned”. And that “prostaglandins were used “very frequently” in obstetrics without problems.
My apologies to Dr De Costa if she would rather speak for herself!
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Hi Catherine! *waves*.
Ah, abortion blogs, eh? Do you remember when you called me a murderer?
Good times.
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Idle Dad you must have a faulty memory
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Hilarious! (idle dad that is!)
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Oh dear Lord, its Catherine with her links again. I didn’t bother looking but I am assuming it’s yet another “scientific study” proving your point about abortion being murder?
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No, it’s more insidious than that.
So, possibly more dangerous.
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I read everyone’s comments with great interest. I too believed every women has a choice but very quickly scoffed not for contraceptive purposes. That was until last week when I discovered we were pregnant with our third child. A suprise on epic proportions especially given our two children were concieved after many harrowing years on ivf. After the obligatory hug from my husband the next words were oh shit. We are very middle income. We live in a two bedroom terrace with quite a substantial mortgage so no room for an upsize! We live interstate from our family so no real supports there. Our car doesn’t even fit three carseats across the back! So while the romantic and idealistic side of me thinks yes we can do it, the sensible side of me (aswell as my husband) thinks it best not to. So this is my reality right now. I am torn at this gut wrenching decision we have to make and honestly don’t know what will happen. Trust me when I say I know exactly what a gift children are but at the same time people need to be responisble for them. So it’s easy to comment and make references to articles and education but this is reality of my life right now and I wouldn’t wish it on
anybody. So be glad that we live in a country where we have choices and freedom.
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So sorry to read your story – what a gut-wrenching decision. If you need to talk to someone about it, most states have all-options pregnancy counselling services, but be careful who you call as sometimes the anti-abortion lines masquerade as being all-options. Call the Family Planning Association in your state for info on who to talk to.
All the best to you and your family.
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All the best with that one. But please don’t feel too guilty and beat yourself up if you decide to go ahead. Like you said, you can make a safe choice here in Australia. Sure, feel sad that it is something you HAVE to deal with, making it very real, but know too that in a certain aspect it is empowering to make your own reproductive choices. All the best
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Why have IUDs gone out of fashion? I didn’t consider one until my six week postpartum check, but it was a no brainer. No hormones, lasts for 5 years, don’t have to remember to take anything and it cost around $100. Don’t know if they are only recommended for women who’ve had a baby or not, but I think they need to be promoted as an option.
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From what I remember from health at school they were only recommended for women who had already had babies as they had a risk of causing infertility
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Yes! I didn’t even know they existed (I’m 21) and it was suggested to me by my gyno, after 5 years on the pill and consistently painful periods. I had Mirena inserted and it was the BEST thing I ever did. I had to have a general anaesthetic as it would be too painful (I haven’t had any children) but my recovery was really fast.
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its been years since i used an IUD, but best contraceptive around, the big hassle was checking that the cord was still there. The only reason it caused infertility ( or so i researched at the time) was because it could wander, but this could take up to 2 years of lost cord before it was a problem.
maybe things have changed in the past 30 years, but like the comment on the pill relying on a person taking it on time, the IUD depended on it being checked every 2 years
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from memory, there was some very major health scares with the old form of IUDs, so they went out of favour….can’t remember the actual details (I was a child at the time), but can remember that they became anathema VERY quickl
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Yes, IUDs are only recommended for women who have finished their family and it is my staunch belief it should stay that way. The Mirena IUD carries a 20% infertlity risk. I found this out the hard way when I had one inserted and the doctor failed to inform me of these risks. I have spent the last 2 years trying to conceive, and luckily I am now pregnant (just) with the help of chinese medicine, but I wouldn’t wish the trouble I’ve had with the Mirena on any woman.
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There is absolutely no evidence that Mirena casues infertility.
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Why do (most) doctors describe this as a risk to patients then?
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Because they cover ALL the possible side effects, remote or not?
Have a look at the possible side effects of any drug. They’re pretty far reaching!
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Mine’s a multi load which is non hormonal unlike the mirena. As far as checking it’s position, I guess that can be done at the same time as a pap smear. I will admit it was uncomfortable being put in (I’d had a caesar and my cervix had never dilated before) but am glad for it now.
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IUDs come in hormonal (Mirena) and non-hormonal (multi-load).
The non-hormonal option can cause very heavy periods, which is what i experienced. I also developed an infection and had to have it surgically removed under GA after a gynae tried to unsuccessfully prise it out (super-ouch!)
My partner could also feel the string during intercouse, which is what is putting me off trying the Mirena now we that we have two kids (planned pregnancies).
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IUDs now have hormones in them. I need contraception without hormones and I investigated IUDs. Not an option for me.
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Not all IUD’s have hormones – I should know, I’ve had IUD’s for 15 years. The risks associayed with IUDs and infertility related to the increased risks of STD’s spreading if you have an IUD and it’s this that increases the risk of infertility – not the IUD. This is how it works : a non hormonal IUD causes inflammation of the uterine lining, preventing implantation. If you contract an STD, this inflammation of the uterine lining causes a greater risk of the STD “spreading” – and its this that increases the risk of infertility.
If you are prone to heavy or painful periods, or have mutliple sexual partners (and are not careful about STD prevention) then an IUD is probably not for you – having an IUD can (in some women) increase bleeding and pain.
Personally, I have had no issues with my IUD and sincerely wish that more Doctors would suggest it as a contraceptive option.
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They are now put in women who haven’t yet had kids. My 24 year old just had one put in. So far so good, it’s the 5th contraceptive type she’s used.
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I definately agree that we need better sex education for our youth in high school.
Whilst we are all entitled to our opinions, when it comes to abortion, its usually a case of yay if you’re all for it and major uproar if your against it (Not necessarily in this post).
I think that we need to consider the effect of abortion on society as a whole and on the lives of those affected by it. But most importantly on the innocent babies who are killed in the process.
I am not trying to attack anyone who has had an abortion and would never presume to do so. I think that sometimes we lose sight of the bigger picture and forget that there is a life to consider. A life that has a right to exist. If we just stop thinking about our own personal situations for a second and think of how many babies are dying, I recently read that the figure is approx. 90,000 in Australia each year – its staggering!
I have done a lot of reading and viewing on the practices/side effects/problems associated with abortion and discovered a few things I think people should know
* Do you know there is a community of people out there living with deformities or health issues having survived an attempted abortion
* Many abortion clinics totally abusing the system and driven by money, bypass psychological checks and administer teen abortions same day as the girls walking in, performing unsafe unhygenic abortions
* A few US abortion clinic’s have recently been exposed for disposing of foetuses in the trash outside the building along with personal patient records. You can visbily identify human body parts so lets not start the its not human debate.
* According to a global study, 98% of abortions are for convenience
* There is a medical condition known as post abortion syndrome
anyway there are obviously so many more facts to learn but many I dont think want to know about them when making such a decision.
I am a woman but it takes two to make a baby. Why do people get so fired up when a man is pro choice or against abortion. Is he not entitled to protect his child? Man has just as much right to comment or have an opinion as we are all responsible for protecting our children, for unsderstanding the value of human life and cherishing it for what it is. And is he not allowed an opinion? If he is pro choice his opinion is so clearly valued but its totally outrgaeous if he is against.
Life wasnt meant to be easy and doesnt always work out as planned but a baby is a gift, its a gift that many would do anything for.
Again no personal attacking or judging involved in my comments, it is my opinion based on my belief and basic understanding of what I think is right or wrong.
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No, no and no. I’m sorry, but your list of practices/side effects/problems list itself is problematic for me. The World Health Organisation describes abortion, when performed by qualified medical practitioners in hygenic facilities (ie those performed in Australia), as one of the world’s safest medical procedures. There ARE women suffering after ‘attempted abortions’: they live mostly overseas, in developing countries or in places where safe and legal abortion is not accessible so they resort to backyard methods. The leading cause of death in Australia for women of reproductive age before abortion became more accessible in the 70s was unsafe abortion.
What happens in the US isn’t mirrored here. The whole theory of ‘post abortion syndrome’ has yet to be proven, and a lot of studies that are peer-reviewed and professionally-conducted find there is no ongoing physical/mental impact from an abortion where that is what the woman herself has freely chosen and it has been relatively easy to access. Check here: http://www.prochoiceqld.org.au/facts.html#Risks.
Meaning no disrespect, but while the Hollywood image of pregnancy and babies is always a ‘blessing’ (even if it’s one in disguise), women’s lives are complex and reality doesn’t always agree with this lofty ideal. There are many women who are geniunely distressed to find out that they’re pregnant, and telling them it’s a blessing is not going to make their lives any different.
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I agree that the ” hollywood image” you mention of pregnancy is not always the case, of course I am not that naive and would never tell someone with an unexpected pregnancy that it is a blessing… but having had the child and later in hindsight.. any mother would consider her child a blessing.
The post abortion syndrome may or may not exist but there is definately a number of women who do suffer post abortion. Many pro choice activists are mothers who have aborted childrten or men/women who have worked in the industry and seen what goes on.
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Post Natal Depression definitely exists, yet I don’t think anyone would use it to argue that women should stop having children.
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PND is totally different – you cannot bring back a terminated baby
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And you cant put back an unwanted baby
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Having an abortion is not a risk free procedure. One risk is that the woman will develop an incompetent cervix post abortion and therefore when she later has a wanted pregnancy she may not be able to carry the baby to term.
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/abortion_procedures?open
Having counselled post abortive women I know many who deeply regret having had their abortions, even many years later. Some women have an abortion, regret it almost immediately and then as soon as possible become pregnant again.
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I don’t think anyone implied it was risk-free. Nothing is risk-free. But as far as surgical procedures go, the link you posted states that ‘Abortion is one of the safest and most common types of surgery in Australia’.
The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, or RANZCOG, states that serious complications after abortions are rare, and that mortality and serious morbidity occur less commonly with abortions than with pregnancies carried to term. While minor surgery or the administration of medication does carry some risks, both surgical and medical methods of abortion should not have any adverse effect on future fertility.
The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists in the UK identifies that there are no proven associations between induced abortion and subsequent ectopic pregnancy, placenta praevia or infertility, a view supported by RANZCOG, who state that women who have an uncomplicated termination are not at an increased risk of being infertile in the future.
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http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/01/02/1136050394322.html
The above research into the effects of abortion on women’s mental health found that post abortive women were far more likely than women who carried their pregnancies to term , to end up depressed, anxious and abusing drugs and alcohol. The researcher, Professor Fergusson, is a pro choice, atheist so his results were not what he expected to find. He reportedly had some difficulty getting a journal to publish his research as abortion is a red hot topic and his results tht abortion could have a negative impact on womens mental health were not popular. If there is a shortage of peer reviewed articles indicating that abortion is bad for women’s mental health that may reflect the bias of the journals editorial staff rather than a lack of evidence that abortion can be bad for women’s mental health. I have met some women to whom having an abortion seems to have been of no consequence yet others are very deeply upset by their choice.
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I know this is a really emotive subject so I’m going to tread lightly and please don’t interpret this as anything other than discussion, but, I think your view is quite simplistic. You use the argument of the US abortion clinic as an argument against abortion. Obviously their practices are revolting but look at your wording ‘they have been exposed’. Clearly these practices aren’t tolerated within the medical community and you can assume this clinic will be disciplined accordingly. Would your view be the same if the clinic wasn’t for abortions but for another type of surgery, would you then think badly of the procedure in question and use it as an argument against it? I understand what you’re saying, and I can appreciate that not everyone is pro-chose, and yes, a baby is a gift. But there are plenty of parents (actual parents, not just pregnant mothers contemplating abortion) that do not treat their children as a gift. Many people would do anything for a child, but should the desire of others detract from the wishes of those who do not want or aren’t ready to be parents?
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The argument of the US abortion clinics is one example of the problems associated with the practice of aborions.
It is not my argument against abortion – that stems from my own personal belief regardless of how it is carried. The actual thought of terminating a life is what troubles me.
I simply included a few things that I have discovered that I dont think many people may know about because when it comes to being pro choice, you have to go looking for the info. The only image that is ever portrayed by the media of someone who is pro choice is a psycho picketer outside an abortion clinic. I would like to think that all of us would be disgusted to hear of what these US abortion clinics are doing in terms of disposing of the babies.
My desire has nothing to do with the parents… its the babies that I think about. As soon as a woman becomes pregnant, she is a mother and a mother thinks of her baby first and foremost above all else.
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A lot of abortions are, in my opinion, not a selfish decision but in the child’s best interests. If you are unable to provide for a child, emotionally, physically or financially, then you are thinking of the baby, and the kind of life you are capable of providing, first and foremost.
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do u mean pro life?
pro choicers dont picket outside abortion clinics we are about having a choice!
Quite frankly the US is loosing its shit and ruled by religion and u need to stop looking at America as the poster child for abortion and maybe do some research on what really happens.
here is a situation that has happened
a woman is a herion addict and prostitute, she had a baby, and didnt abort the child due to being ‘pro life’ the child is then born with an addiction problem and many learning problems, the mother is unfit, the child is in an out of foster care and has a horrible upbringing……..how is this fair!
I once spoke to a girl with such severe health problem due to her mothers drug addiction in the womb and the mother of the drug addicted pregnant woman forced her to have the child…she has had the worst life and although she doesnt want to kill herself she wished that her mother aborted her. it was the less selfish thing to do, they new she had a few problems in the womb but because the grandmother was a Christian pro lifer, she was forced to have the girl! its really sad and every single reason for having an abortion is a womans own personal choice!
if u dont want an abortion…dont you get one, but i think u need to read up on the facts a little more and stop relying on American pro life sites for facts…Australia is an entirely different country.
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Yes I meant pro life but I dont necessarily condone the behaviour of those extremists.
Ur right the US is clearly an example of a country gone wrong but I certainly don’t think they are ruled by religion. Religion encourages the good, if they were so religious perhaps they would set a better example for the world.
Of course its a deeply personal issue for many but I also think we need to talk about it more. If there was nothing wrong with it, it would not be such a touchy subject.
I do feel sorry for the baby born to the drug addict but here is another story my neighbour told me only last week
Her best friend fostered a baby born to a heroin addict at age 2. Baby was on methodone at birth and when arrived in foster care could not talk, not even stand on her own feet and very termperamental. Now a few years later and ready for adoption finalities to take place, she is a happy, much loved and appreciated little girl, part of a family. Still has a temper but many other kids do too!
Just sayin where there is a downside when things go wrong, there is an upside where things go right too!
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I prefer to call “pro-lifers” anti-abortionists. I think the term “pro-life” suggests that those who believe abortion should be safe, regulated and available to those women who feel they need it are anti-life, which isn’t the case.
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Sorry I had to laugh at “Religion encourages the good, if they were so religious perhaps they would set a better example for the world.”
Religion has caused more deaths than anything else in history.
The Catholic Church and the Vatican is responsible for over 20 million deaths due to their condom ban causing a pandemic of AIDS in Africa.
Religion is notorious for being unwilling to accept the idea of change.
Religion can not be used as an argument for morality or guidance in issues such as these – where everyone has an individual story and everyone’s individual circumstances are personal and thus can not be subject to generalisations.
In every single story I have heard about abortion though, never has it been a selfish, rash decision. The mother (and possibly the father) have considered the decision over a lengthy period of time and weighed up all the options.
It is never an issue that is as simple as ‘oh I forgot to use a condom so now I have to deal with my consequences’.
If a woman has decided to not bring a child into this world it is because that child would not have had the opportunities that it deserves. I hardly think it is simply a matter of ‘incovenience’.
Your story about the foster girl is lovely, but unfortunately not every situation turns out like this, and that has to be considered.
I think it is incredibly wrong for anyone to judge another woman for aborting or giving birth to a child. Especially when the individual circumstances are not known and the judgement is based on ill-informed ‘facts’ or parallels wrongly drawn from other countries.
/endrant
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“As soon as a woman becomes pregnant, she is a mother and a mother thinks of her baby first and foremost above all else.”
Really?
That’s what a pregnant woman is/does?
I beg to differ. Women are a lot more than the contents of their uterus.
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So that would make me a mother 8 times over, even though I’ve only given birth 4 times and the others I lost very early in the piece?
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-where is the community of deformed babies?
-most of the statements u have made are based in America and Europe. Australia is no where near American standards!
You are entitled to you opinions and i would like to say Thank you for being someone that stated their opinions without being nasty. I dont agree with you(respectfully) because i have actually had an abortion and if i was to have kept that child i would not have been able to give it the life it deserves! i have a child now he has no deformaties and is healthy and happy no side affects, i have had a surgical abortion when i was 20 and the Medical abortion when i was 22 and there was no side affects at all.
The risks are so low and there are so many pro life groups out there making claims that horrible things will happen to you if u have an abortion and in some cases yes this has happened, but when problems arrise, its usually because the community doesnt have a a good service for abortion to happen. Plus a lot of claims made over the internet from years ago. medically its very safe now done in the proper clinic. People wouldnt have to resort to backyard abortions if the clinics were more readily available to them….no matter how anyone feels about abortion its going to happen..it needs to be safe with surgery or medically with RU486.
Anyway i know u are not personally attacking its just a touchy subject for everyone and abortion is never black and white and people dont go into it easily! i hope its not common but i do want it available.
There is no easy answer, but there needs to be open mindedness, and it needs to be rare and people need to be educated about sex with free contraception at any age!
On the subject of whether a male should have an opinion, this is very tricky, and i think in the end the law will give the rights to the mother as it is her body and i understand its his child too, but again its a grey area and if you are a couple it would be wise to get councilling! so many girls are told by their boyfriends to have the kid then they end up leaving once it all gets so hard. I think the mother does have to be entitled to all rights to her body, but i do think councilling should happen with the couple first. And i dont think Tony Abbott should have an opinion as he lets his Religious view get in the way and this drives me nuts haha but thats just my opinion on that douchebag…..The Liberals would probably be win if it wasnt for their idiot of a leader!(another subject another day though hehe)
Take care
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Thanks Been There
Yes alot of the things going wrong do seem to be happening abroad but abortion is a global issue isnt it? It is an issue that affects us all, no matter where we are.
You may have misinterpreted my comment about deformed babies, I have read of a number of people who actually survived the procedure itself. You can search the net and read the testimony of many who lived, when they were supposed to be aborted.
For me I think it is black and white but then becomes grey when issues of mother’s health, rape etc come about. It is a mind boggling issue then that I hope I never have to think about
As for Tony Abbot, the thing I like most about him is that he IS religious hahaha but politics like you say is another issue altogether!
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everyone is entitled to there opinion!! as long as the facts are indeed that..fact.. we are only really talking about Australia because this is about us as Australians having the right to RU486! anyway we could go on and on about his all day long and still get no where!!
and dont even get me started on Tony Abbott haha!! sorry i dont think Religion and politics should mix!!
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Thank you for the tamed discussion
Its nice to have one rather than the usual abuse or name calling that is exchanged so easily
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I just think it is really sad that people are still trying to throw their own moral code about abortion onto others. It is like trying to make everyone believe in the same god/religion, would anyone be happy with that?
I also find it interesting to state that the babies are innoccent. What does that mean? For a start they are not babies, yet. Sure they are humans in the making but still have a long journey before they would be born a full term baby.
it is us humans that load all the emotional baggage onto the concept, in reality the abortion is done quite early, similar to spontanious misscarriage that occurs naturally in many women.
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Its funny how when the pregnancy is wanted, of course it is always referred to as a baby but as soon as it is not wanted it is not even considered to be such.
Not trying to do anything of the such but merely expressing my opinion as are you.
You are aware of course that late term abortions are also taking place. Babies who are formed and can move, hear and feel. If you care to delve deeper to see/hear/read into the procedures that are taking place you would be mortified.
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It is illegal in Australia to have an abortion past the first trimester.
So no, in Australia late-term abortions are not taking place.
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I hope they are- late term abortions are sometimes medically warranted. If they are unavailable we will have women dying from complications due to certain medical conditions.
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Facts, it is certainly legal in Victoria to have an abortion right up until the day the baby is due, ie full term. So late term abortions are taking place
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In Victoria, after twenty weeks, two doctors must concur the late term abortion is necessary.
It’s not a free for all, and *sigh* I’ll say it again – no one has a late term abortion for fun.
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Maybe you do BCG, but I don’t refer to any pregnancy as a baby until well, well after 12 weeks.
I’ve lost 5 pregnancies and am pro choice. I lost the dream of a baby and was devastated, but none of my pregnancies formed into babies, they barely got from cell to zygote to fetus.
I had a 19 week scan today with my second and for the first time started using the term ‘baby’.
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Funny, during my very, very much wanted pregnancies my offspring were foetuses to me.
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My wife and I had a late term abortion at 34 weeks. His name was to be Fred. His sister was born a week later. He had a late uncovered terrible genetic diagnosis, and while he would have most likely lived for a few decades his life would have been horrible, lonely and the chances are that the stresses of care would have destroyed my family and the lives of my other two daughters as well.
No one does late term abortions for shits and giggles.
Since Fred, I’ve had two more children, George and Emily. Obviously, you’d prefer they didn’t exist?
http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/one-familys-impossible-choice/
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That is so terribly sad. Aborting at 7 weeks is really like you weren’t pregnant at all, but what you have experienced is a nightmare. I can understand why you did it and most probably would do the same thing too. But I am all for family first, and that sometimes means the family you already have. Life can really throw you some wobblies and yours just plain sucked not to mention break your heart.
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I bring it up because the likes of BCG and Catherine suggest that my wife and I must have been sitting at breakfast and my wife said “You know what? I know we planned and wanted this child but the third trimester is just making my back ache. I simply must have a late-term abortion” then I pat her on the hand and say “Whatever you like, dear. Can you pour me another cup of tea, let me finish off this devine marmalade toast and I’ll call the doctor and book you in, there’s a dear”
It’s not like that. At all.
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Hi Idle Dad, Im sorry that you have gone through a late term abortion and completely understand your point of view. I am sorry ultimately that you lost a child and I am sure i cannot understand ur level of grief.
The likes of “me” is against abortion as such and i usually see it as black and white when it comes to abortions which are undertaken for the sake of inconvenieace – yes it does happen. Obviously not the members of this forum but we alll have strong opinions and they are usually based on our own personal experiences and those of people we know and care about. I guess my experience with people who have had abortions and i have many, including family, are those which are performed for purely selfish reasons. In fact often the subject is a source of laughter and ridicule which pains me deeply so just imagine me sitting around during a family convo one day and everyone having a great big joke about “i aborted twins hahaha yeah i aborted one too hahaha.
After reading so many responses I apologise if you think that i am so naive to think that those going through with an abortion are doing so easily, particularly in ur case which i’ve only read about now. I honestly do not judge someone for having an abortion, i struggle with the concept of terminating a life as im sure you did and Im sorry that you even had to make that choice.
I guess what im trying to say and I have said it before, whilst I am against abortion, I know that there are times when it is a grey area and I cant presume what i would do in such a situation but I hope i never have to make the choice.
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It isn’t particularly ‘in my case’. Late term abortions do not occur for the sake of convience. Ever. Your suggestion that they are is vile.
Quote ” so just imagine me sitting around during a family convo one day and everyone having a great big joke about “i aborted twins hahaha yeah i aborted one too hahaha”
You made that up. I admint, I’ve seen a person sing a joking song about getting abortions for fun but the song was IRONIC, and making fun about the fact that was what women who have abortions are accused of.
(Mo5, sorry for the email bombardment, the only option is to reply under you).
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I was not referring to late term abortions being undertaken because of inconvenience – you misunderstood or perhaps i was not clear. I was referring to early abortions
As for making up that suff about people joking ummm WHY??? would i do such a thing. I am talking about a convo between myself, sis in law and mother in law where they freely laugh about abortions that they have had, sis in law giggles that her mum aborted twins and then mother in law encourages sis in law to abort if there is any hint of illnesss with the baby. Hell, she had one years ago too and they even showed her the baby afterwards arrgghhh does this sound like a nice conversation to you?? I doubt it because you may be pro choice but surely you can see what is wrong in these situations. So sis in law went along with all medical advice and undertook all tests to be told baby was healthy and unfortunately now has a 6 month old boy who is not healthy. Its not a laughing matter, this is why they offended me, we are talking about life
Surely you must get by now that i am not the naive yet evil person you think I am!
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Idle Dad , I was very sorry to read about Fred. My sincere condolences to you and your wife. At no time have I commented on your personal situation. Just because someone is opposed to abortion, you should not assume they consider people do “late term abortions for shits and giggles”.
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I’ve always wondered where are the pro-lifers when it comes to the money, stress and time to look after someone with a host of physical and mental disabilities and disorders. It costs a small fortune, you have to give up a lot and frankly I see nothing wrong with not wanting to do that or being able to cope with the lifetime stress.
I’d have done the same thing, An Idle Dad.
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Many of them do just that – look after their children with alot of sacrifice and hurt along the way.
Dont take that the wrong way but i know many pro lifers with disabled or ill children. Its not a situation they would have wished for obviously.
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Don’t call them pro-life. Everyone is pro-life. They’re anti-choice.
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They certainly are!
I quite agree, Kris2040!
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Not to mention the number of testimonies from women who were advised that their unborn baby had Down’s syndrome (or other disabilities) and that they should abort it – decided to ignore doctors and have baby anyway, and what do you know? No Down’s syndrome! It’s hushed up how many of these tests result in incorrect diagnoses.
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Kit, that is just a risk I would not take. If doctors were very convinced something was wrong with my unborn child I would not continue with the pregnancy so I would never know would I? Not a risk I would take at all!
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Bullshit. Conspiracy fantasies based on true examples from before genetic tests proved Down Sydndrome one way or the other.
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Hi Idle Dad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome
If you click on the above link they report that there is a 5% false positive rate for various Downes Syndrome screening tests, so Kit is actually right, that sometimes people would be aborting a normal baby that has been falsely identifed as having Downes Syndrome.
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You should probably continue reading. The initial diagnosis are followed by a CVS or amnio, which don’t return false positives.
Do. Not. Return. False. Positives.
While I can’t stop you from trying to insert the horror of uncertainty into mothers who have had abortions (I won’t comment on any joy you may feel from doing so) you really should get some accurate facts.
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Dear Idle Dad
I did read the whole article and it states that the followup tests have a very low false positive rates, so it is incorrect for you state they don’t return false positives.
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Don’t come the raw prawn with me.
First, you quoted the 5% figure as an accurate representation of the number of false positives and don’t mention the follow up procedures that every Australian women would be offered to confrim or reject the diagnosis – even though you are aware that they are offered this. To put the best light possible on your comments, they are willfully and intentionally dishonest.
Secondly, the concern for doctors with amnios are false negatives – where the test returns a negative result yet the child is born with Downs. This is because genetics is complicated and not every cause is known. The error rate is less than 1%. And before you jump up and down and say “Ah-ha”, the reverse is not true: Every positive result is know to absolutely lead to a child with down syndrome.
The only error possible is human error. Which is why the fluid is gathered into two vials, vials which several people (including the pregnant women) confirm is marked with the correct details. If a positive is shown on the first, the second vial fluid is tested by another person.
The indicents of lab error in Australia are practically zero.
I’m not sure why you insist on pushing this completely BS argument onto people, other than the rest of your argument is likewise weak or untrue. You’ve got nothing, so you propergate falsehoods, uncertainly and fear.
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Dear Idle Dad
I provided a link to the article so people could read it.You are determined to think the worst of me and there s probably nothing I could say or do which would alter your poor opinion of me.
Obviously, you made a decision to have an abortion and that must have been very traumatic.
However, having a disabled child is not necessarily a tragedy and I would argue that some people here propagate fear that the worst thing in the world that can befall someone is that they have a disabled child. I have done voluntary work with adults and kids with Downes Syndrome, cerebral palsy etc and actually found it very rewarding and enjoyable.
Having an intellectually disabled child can actually be an enjoyable and rewarding experience. It may not be the experience that one plans to have, or would voluntarily choose, but I have been told by numerous people that they would not trade their child for a ”normal” child. The link below is written by Simon Barnes, a journalist and the father of Eddie ( who has Downes syndrome).
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/article633433.
Parenthood is a hard task and children do not come with guarantees that they will not: become drug addicts, develop terrible physical or mental illnesses, be antisocial etc etc.These children may have passed all the genetic tests currently available ( I suppose one day there will be genetic testing to identify every disorder under the sun and then we can abort everyone with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, and a predisposition to substance abuse). Afterall people with mental illnesses may place strain on their families/parents so why not abort them too?
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To anyone reading this, what Catherine should have wrote was: “I was wrong. There is no evidence that healthy babies are aborted on a false diagnosis, or even that such an event is likely in any meaningful way. I apologise and won’t use that particular point to support my anti-choice cause again.”
What Catherine wrote is above – do you notice how it simple changes the topic? It is a debating technique called switch & bait. If you have lost a point, spit out another controversial statement (switch) that the debater will not be able to resist following (bait).
Hopefully, the statement is along the 20/20 technique. That is, it takes 20 seconds to say something vaguely plausible, but 20 minutes to explain why it is wrong. That way, the fact that she lied about healthy babies being aborted has a good chance of being forgotten.
Catherine certainly had a good crack.
Though, worst of all, what Catherine will do in the future is: continue to suggest to mothers who have had abortions due to an adverse genetic diagnosis that they might have a 1 in 20 chance of aborting a potentially healthy child. She’ll still use that link. She’ll still knowingly lie.
So just to repeat: there is no evidence of genetic misdiagnosis leading to healthy babies being aborted. To suggest such a thing is an underhand technique designed to punish mothers (and fathers) who have made the decision, and to horrify those who haven’t.
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That’s right, the testing today is a true result, not an opinion.
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If I had time to find the article I would but there was an article in the paper months ago about a couple who had been given the all clear for down syndrome (they were going to abort if the % was high) and the baby was in fact born with down syndrome.
My bro and sis in law undertook extensive tests to see if there unborn child had any genetic disrders and got the all clear. They too were ready to abort if any even slight indication of illness. The baby is now 6 months old, has had an operation for clubfoot and wears special shoes at night, no nerve in his face so cannot blink or smile on one side but most of all possible brain deformity.. sorry dont know exact words but something to do with the brain not being formed properly which in worst case scenario will be special schooling and so on. The professor at the hospotal even hinted that all this sis a result of the needle used in the invasive proedure (sorry cant think of the name) to test for down syndrome.
Unfortunately there are many healthy babies who are being aborted for no reason and some parents given false hope that they are having a healthy baby.
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See my last comment to Catherine above.
The concern is about false negatives – children where the amnio shows nothing wrong yet still have a condition. That’s because either the condition triggers are 100% mapped out or the condition isn’t tested for by the amnio.
I agree completely that there are parents who believe they are having a healthy baby yet don’t, but your statement that there are healthy babies being aborted on false positives just isn’t true.
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Even the clubfoot??
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Amniocentesis. My mum had it when she was pregnant with my brother & he was born with a benign brain tumour. Fortunately his condition improves with age. But not so for a large majority of Amnio babies.
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Well they must have had definitive tests like amniocentesis or CVS. Ultrasounds and the triple test are not infallible. Some will choose not to have extra tests and lo and behold a normal baby, which some are clearly happy to go on the Internet claiming medical incompetence with.
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“* Many abortion clinics totally abusing the system and driven by money, bypass psychological checks and administer teen abortions same day as the girls walking in, performing unsafe unhygenic abortions”
Not many. Very few, and these types of clinics are completely discredited by the medical community.
“* A few US abortion clinic’s have recently been exposed for disposing of foetuses in the trash outside the building along with personal patient records. You can visbily identify human body parts so lets not start the its not human debate.”
Again, the unsafe practices of (very few) clinics does not de-legitimise the surgical procedure of abortion. If someone had any other surgery at an unsafe clinic, you could be decrying the clinic, not the procedure.
“* According to a global study, 98% of abortions are for convenience”
Please cite your sources, there’s no way for a reader to tell whether or not your “study” is legitimate or even real. Would you count inability to care for the baby financially as “inconvenient”? What about extreme health risks to the mother?
“* There is a medical condition known as post abortion syndrome”
A term that is used by anti-choice communities with no scientific or medical backing. It is true that women may experience difficult emotions after an abortion – because abortion is a big decision, and like every big decision it comes with stress and emotional changes.
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RU486 sounds like a walk in the park if we are to believe abortion providers. Having had a miscarriage myself, I don’t believe prescription miscarriage is a step forward for women. Readers might find this info interesting:
Abortion pill ‘not easy solution’ Cathy O’Leary, West Australian, November 10, 2008, p.9
A quarter of the WA women who have used the controversial abortion pill RU486…needed surgery to remove their placenta, new figures have shown…
King Edward Memorial Hospital statistics obtained under Freedom of Information laws show that of the 71 women who used the pill under special approval from the Therapeutic Goods Administration between January and June this year, 18 developed placental retention requiring operations and two women suffered haemorrhaging needing blood transfusions.
In one case, a woman 23 weeks pregnant failed to abort within 48 hours of using RU486, and doctors had to use further medical treatments to end the pregnancy.
The documents also show the average age of women who used RU486 was 31 and their average length of pregnancy was 18 weeks, with one woman using the treatment at almost 27 weeks…
West Australian, November 10, 2008
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From Caroline’s article: “After 9 weeks of pregnancy the process needs to take place in a hospital with suitably trained and dedicated staff.”
There’s nothing there which suggests ‘walk in the park’.
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These figures look very unusual- this drug is recommended in general for early termination, it would be unusual for it to be used alone in these late abortion cases. Something seams very amiss with this information- I would be highly critical of where this came from, and the individual circumstances of the cases would need to be looked at before these figures should be used as a sweeping case against the use of this drug (and termination at 18 weeks is higher risk, whatever form you use)
Here is a link to a great outline of some patient info about this drug- it outlines what medical abortion is, how it works, who it is suitable for:
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/abortion_pill_ru486_(mifepristone)
It should be noted that the WHO advocates the availability if this drug to all women also
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Sorry, link being weird!
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/
pages/abortion_pill_ru486_(mifepristone)
(cut and paste them together)
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I’m sorry u had to go through that! i had a MC last year. I was quite early on and found it didnt hurt any more than a period. But i have had a similar drug to RU486 when i was younger living in Canada, and i agree it needs to be discussed that its not just a “walk in the park” but it is manageable with pain killers, its just like a bad period on an off for a few hours!
Education is key, but if i had the choice i would choose RU486 over a surgical abortion. and think the key is having a choice in our country! i was given a lot of councilling before i made the choice in Canada, i had to have two sessions before i made the choice! it really helped as they explained everything involved, and i am sure the same would happen here!
Take care and sorry u had to go through that!
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I really wish contraception was subsidised here like it is in NZ.
The pill would cost me $3 for 3 monthes, condoms were $3 for 12 boxes ( not quite sure how often my GP thought I was having sex!) I like to use the Nuva ring as I’m terrible and remembering to take the pill, but it’s crazy expensive at around $70 for 3 monthes. It might not seem a lot but when your rarely having sex it can seem a bit pointless at times especially when other countries have it so much cheaper!
On the other hand I’m not even meant to use hormonal contraceptions as I have a high risk of them giving me a blood clot and having a stroke, but that just leaves condoms.
I definitely believe women should have a choice, and if there is a drug that allows an abortion to take place without having to be in the hospital even better! I think the stress of having to go through that is enough without having multiply people look at your bits, surgery and the horrible environment of a hospital.
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The Oral Contraceptive Pill (etc) is COMPLETELY FREE in the UK!
I lived there for 3 years and had 3 years of free contraception. Funny thing, there were so many girls walking around pushing prams! Hmmmmm….
Anyway, for 3 months of my pill once returning to Australia would cost me $40. Lucky I have a pharmacist as a mate and he can work it for me for approx half that price!
I think it’s something that should be subsidised, most definitely!
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What!! Really? I have a friend living there and she hasn’t mentioned that to me! I was on Yasmin at $70 for 3 months and I just had to change it becuase it was so darn expensive!
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Well what we pay in oz is still WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY cheaper than what american women have to pay, but i agree it should be free. it’s economically more viable for a country to not have a higher population/unwanted children.
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I think that women should be aware of all of the options available in order to make an informed decision that is right for them. There is no wrong or right here, only perception. Contraceptives of any kind are not guranteed prevention for pregnancy. Condoms break, pills fail. While there are many contraceptive methods available, not all are suitable for each individual, and depending on the individual will also depend on the affordability of the method of contraception. I have to use an expensive method of birth control, not for contraceptive purposes but in order to suppress my ovaries as they affect my bowel disease very badly, however in order to control my bowel disease I take medicine that will cause spontaneous abortion. And the other medicines I take cause severe birth defects in unborn babies, babies are certainly off my list of things to do anytime soon and have been strongly advised not to do so as abortion will be necessary. I don’t have a choice like most women. Although if I had access to RU486, I’m sure it would be preferrable to surgical abortion. But knowing the options and having access to the options would be beneficial not only to me but for all women. It’s unfortunate that women in rural and remote areas do not have the same level of access to care as women in the cities, making their choices much more difficult. We also need to implement sex Ed into the teaching curriculum, as it is currently optional and either implemented poorly or not at all, leaving young people ill informed about their choices and the consequences of their actions and little support due to lack of information.
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also, on the topic of the oral contraceptive, there should definitely be WAAAAAAAAAAY more education about it than there currently is – there are actually four different generations/versions of the pill you can get. combined monophasic, combined biphasic, combined triphasic, and progesterone only.
combined means they contain both oestrogen and progesterone. monophasics have the same concentration the whole way through the month (and are generally the most expensive sort you can get), biphasics have a lower level of oestrogen and higher level of progesterone in the second half of the month, and triphasic has 3 different levels of oestrogen and progesterone throughout the month, to more closely mimic the natural cycle of those hormones. triphasic generally has less side effects than mono or bi, and costs less than mono or bi!
progesterone only doesn’t have any impact on your ovulation, but does thin the uterine lining, and thicken the uterine mucous. unfortunately, these ones only last 22 – 24 hours, so you have to be REALLY exact with when you take them each day! BUT they have even less side effects than any of the combined contraceptives!
but the doctors don’t tell you that when you go in for the pill, they just start you off on monophasic because it’s the default! and you don’t learn all that in sex ed in high school either – the only reason i know is from uni level pharmacology!
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Hi Mayberry- I mean no disrespect, but I don’t really agree with your assessment that triphasic pills have less SEs than monophasic ones, and doctors choose mono’s as a default. The triphasics are old pills that were developed to “mimic” the cycle, but what wasn’t appriciated was that the pill “obliterates” the natural cycle anyway, so there is no need to try to mimic it. The higher doses of oestrogen/progesterone seen at some points in the triphasic system, and the constant changing of hormone levels, are likely in fact the cause of more SEs/pill issues that are as seen with these pills. This is why the more stable monophasics are prefered by doctors- in fact newer pills like Yaz have been developed to be even more “stable”- low dose all throughout, with only a short 4 day “dip” of hormone on the break period/sugar pills. This is supposedly much better for issues like PMS.
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that’s cool
i do know that different pills have worse or less side effects for different people, and that you should try out a few before settling if you are experiencing negative side effects.
the point i was trying to make was not so much barracking for one pill over another, but that there are more out there than just one type, and that people (ie women
) should be able to access that sort of information more easily/that it should be included in the standard “contraception talk” that you get in sex ed at school so that they don’t feel like they should just take whatever the first one is their doctor gives them, especially if it gives them worse side effects than another one would.
more educated about options = less having to put up with shitty side effects because “oh that’s just what happens when you’re on the pill”
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Yep, your absolutely right- people need to search for the “right” contraception for them. Lot’s of people often stick with one thing, even when they are having issues, because they aren’t aware of all their options. Absolutely agree with you mayberry- more eduction is needed (luckily it’s one of my favourite topics to talk to patients about- I could talk about contraception and STDs all day- and often literally do!)
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It seems inevitable whenever abortion is raised as a discussion topic that people will create a divide between those abortions they think should be allowed and those that shouldn’t. I love that mostly everyone who has commented so far has done so in a way that is respectful of other people’s opinions and choices, but a few facts to help the debate along:
- There’s no national data collection on abortion in Australia, but in South Australia 90-95% of abortions are performed in the first trimester, or before 13 weeks of pregnancy.
- Where RU486 becomes more readily available, it results in women who do choose abortion being able to access one earlier in pregnancy. There are stats on this from the UK and other countries.
- Studies in Australia and NZ have shown that between half and three quarters of women seeking abortion were using contraception at the time they became pregnant (and most of us will know at least one person who has fallen pregnant while being ‘careful’).
- Prevention is always great, but as someone has commented, no contraception is 100% effective, and some people don’t have many options. Sure, a packet of condoms may only cost a few dollars, but what if you’re in a small town and the pharmacist knows your parents? Or refuses to stock emergency contraception? There’s a regional town in Queensland with only one doctor, who is Catholic, and for the last two years has refused to supply anyone with any contraception whatsoever. It’s not always as simple as it appears.
Check http://www.prochoiceqld.org.au for more info if you’re interested – there are also stories from women about their abortions. Here’s to respectful discussions!
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In case your reference to people deciding on what should be allowed and what shouldnt, was referring to my post, i should clarify what i meant. My intention was to say that there should be other options made more appealing to women considering abortions. Life is a precious thing at any stage. I would love to see support thrown behind adoption rather than abortion (except in certain circumstances where there are health risks carrying to term) because there are so many people who want and cant have children. So many people going overseas to adopt because the system here is nearly prohibitive in the legal red tape. I just wanted to put forward that maybe these groups could meet somewhere in the middle…
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Agree there is more room for other solutions, but many women themselves don’t really consider adoption as an option, and that’s not because of the red tape attached to it – a lot of women have trouble with the idea of surrendering a child for adoption. It’s an idea Leslie Cannold looked at in her book ‘The Abortion Myth’ a few years ago, it’s definitely worth a read. In it, even women who would describe themselves as anti-abortion struggle with the idea of adoption. I know people face difficulties in adopting children but i don’t think changes to regulations are going to make women reconsider the idea of adopting out an unwanted baby. It’s a tricky one though…
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And no, sorry, didn’t mean to direct that at anyone in particular! It seems to happen a lot in any forum, it wasn’t a reaction to your comments at all
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Do you suggest it would be easy for a woman to continue on in her life for 40 weeks, being obviously pregnant to everyone in her work and social circles, then return to working and socialising shortly after giving birth and just saying “I gave my baby up for adoption”??
Hmmm?
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Anonthistime, In fact it is more risky to carry a baby full term and deliver than to have a surgical abortion before 9 weeks. I suffered extraordinary morning sickness with all five of my pregnancies, very long labours( shortest was 33 hours) sleepless night, teething, etc, something I am only prepared to do for a baby I will raise. I love and adore my children as much as the next person, would give them my right arm if needed. In have given my entire life over to the raising of my kids from the age of 19, I am now 39. Because of this they are all great people, successful and I am very proud of my achievement with my family. I am not prepared to go through any of the pregnancy to have the child adopted because someone else has a problem with abortion. I think it is very rude and selfish to expect someone to put their baby up for adoption if they wouldn’t want to. Nature has it’s way and some people are fertile and some aren’t as lucky, not fair, sure, but just how it is. If we are ok with people choosing to donate organs or not, and there are many people who would benefit from higher organ donation, how can we suggest you can’t have an abortion because someone else might want that baby? the truth is we should be more concerned with helping those already here with organ donation, stem cell procedures, euthanasia etc. We all have our ideas and feelings about certain issues but this does not mean we should ever force others to do something they don’t want to. I just don’t understand how people get so caught up with something they will never ever stop. If you don’t agree with abortion, don’t have one, simple.
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thank you!! and i think we are more respectful in our discussions in Australia in general about abortion as we are a more open minded country! If u go into the pregnancy section of Yahoo Answers and look at the opinions given by Americans, when abortion is bought up it is a different situation all together, many use the words ‘burn in hell’ a lot. Its good to come from a country where even when we dont agree with each other we still try to respect each others opinions and not be nasty! thank you for bringing that up!
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being from a country town, this is particularly pertinent. the nearest hospital/clinic that did abortions to where i grew up was 300km away. this meant that teenagers (because they start young in the country – most girls at 14 or 15) who had unwanted pregnancies had no way of getting themselves to the hospital without having to involve their families, which then adds a whole other level of stress and emotional pressures.
Even for older women – “taking a trip to albury” is the euphemism out there for abortions, and in order to do that, they need to take at least 2 full days out of work, family and everything else to drive to albury and back, as well as have the procedure.
being able to access ru486, and have a “medical” abortion either at home or under the watch of your local doctor would be a fantastic option for women who don’t live near to big hospitals or clinics!
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I fully support RU486 becoming more widely available. Better for the health system and often better for the individual.
On the topic of abortion, I think generally it should only be freely available up to about 9 weeks anyway. A foetus after this stage is so much more developed and that becomes a grey area for me. I’ve heard the argument that many women wouldn’t know they are pregnant at 9 weeks but I don’t really buy that. Pregnancy tests are so widely available and so sensitive early on, that unless you willfully don’t want to know you’re pregnant I would think the vast majority would know by 9 weeks.
Putting a baby up for adoption is something I wish would become more socially and culturally acceptable. It makes me so sad that the commonly held view seems to be that it is better to get rid of a baby rather than to have it and let another childless couple raise it…
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I agree that putting a baby up for adoption should be more culturally acceptable, however it would still mean that you’d have to go through 40 weeks of pregnancy, labour, and birth. All this would be very disruptive and potentially traumatic – if faced with a choice between adopting their baby out and having an abortion, I think most people would probably still choose an abortion. I know I would.
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Agreed
(I just commented pretty much the same thing higher up!)
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I see your point, but I still think it’s sad. Both for the babies who don’t get a chance at life and the families who desperately want them.
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Angie, to be honest, the baby would have no idea, it is still developing into what will become A human with a life . So to state it is sad to not have a chance at life is really not factual, it is the idea of us thinking about it as a person once born that we associate with the life to be sad about. if we get bogged down with the whole ‘life’ argument where does it start, with the egg or the sperm as they are both ‘alive’ with life giving properties. So does each sperm that dies after ejaculation or each egg not fertilised mean we get sad at a life that will never be. We need to have contraceptive choices and safe abortion choices available for all women so the people already drawing breath are safe and looked after from decisions they are entitled to make.
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I had no idea I was pregnant till 10 weeks into my first pregnancy. Having been told I wouldn’t have children without some kind of fertility treatment, it was not something I would have presumed. Also, no morning sickness, no untoward symptoms, and as I only got one period every year or two there was no clue there either. Suddenly my boobs got bigger, and the rest in history …..
I chose to keep my baby, but that’s just my choice. Everybody else is free to make their choice, and if all the choices are freely discussed and readily and safely available, so much the better.
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I think the last paragraph is the most important.
We need to be at a level where less abortions are requested/needed, as a result of better sex education and access to contraception.
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I really strongly agree with the need for better contraceptives, and cheaper ones at that! My husband has a vasectomy in his late twenties, but in Australia this would possibly have been turned down, and cost the same amount *after* medicare as we paid for it without any cover, and before medicare it is three times what we paid to see a specialist. I see no reason for this.
We also don’t have essure widely available, which is non-surgical tubal litigation, similar to getting an IUD and can be done by a GP.
A theatre nurse told me that many abortions are performed on women who have completed their family and can’t cope with another baby. I wonder how many of these could be avoided by cheaper, less invasive sterilisation that was quickly available.
I know a lot of people wouldn’t go sterilisation, but after having two different contraceptive pills fail this is the area I am most familiar with, because I really, really don’t want another baby. I might be too young to get sterilised in this country, but I am old enough to make up my mind.
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So agree with you on better sterilisation proceedures becoming more widely available. My hubby was offered a vasectomy at a younger than normal age purely because my OB believed it would be medically dangerous for me to carry another baby so he wrote the referral. Without that, hubby would have had a hard time convicing a doctor to do it because he was younger than the average age.
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i think, like others below have stated, that abortion should only be a last resort. It bothers me so much that people are so cavalier with things such as contraception. How can people in this day and age not be able to afford a $5 pack of condoms?
I also can’t stand the thought that people use abortion as a means of contraception.
as for comments about students not being able to afford the pill, i think you’ll find that most students can afford to go out and get pissed every weekend and yet complain about not being able to purchase necessities. Most can, they’re just choosing to spend their money elsewhere. Of course there are some students out there where $78 for a pill is way too much but for the majority of students, i find it hard to believe that they cant fork out $78 for three months worth of the pill.
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I find it hard to believe that ANYONE would use abortion as a means of contraception. Abortion is an emotionally traumatic and sometimes very painful (and often expensive!) process. I do not believe that anyone has an abortion without sincerely believing that it is the right (indeed, only) choice for them in their circumstances.
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It happens Evey, believe me. I knew a girl who was in her twenties, had several abortions and used to refer to it as “getting my foetus” removed in the same way as you might say “getting my nails done”. Unfortunately it is not always a last resort.
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Oh dear – I’m sure that friend is an exception. Most ppl I know don’t take abortion that lightly
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My pill only costs me about $30 for three months. I don’t have a health care card or anything. My little sisters pill costs well over $100 though due to a few issues she has. Which is a real struggle for her to afford as she’s still at school and her mums supporting 4 kids by herself and can’t work much.
But she’s not going to be getting pregnant anyway
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i think its quite rare that people use abortions as ‘contraception’!! younger people do need to be educated more and i certainly dont think that abortion should just be something that commonly happens, i am pretty sure most would agree! But i also think a majority of people actually do try and be safe, but most are stating its just very expensive, it doesnt mean they aren’t forking the money out! if i had to fork out $78 for the pill i would find that a little hard, and i have a business and a family and am not on a student budget!
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My first pill was $22 for 4 packtes/months..it’s really not that expensive, and I was in uni at the time. Took myself off the the doctor and hey presto!
Even the fancy pills have generic brands. My one is about $30 and it’s a generic version of a ‘designer’ pill.
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that great you found a cheap version, but i tried so many different pills and unfortunatly the only one that worked for me at the time was $60, i did try the cheaper ones but they were not for me. Some people have different medical problems and can only use certain brands! i am pretty most will do everything to find the cheapest brands, but there are a few of us that dont get that option! Be sure to help yoru friends out with this info though, cos a lot of doctors wont give u a choice and if people know there is a variety available this may help a lot! Thank you
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Fair enough!
I know not everyone has access to cheaper versions of the pill. I think what the person above was trying to point out and what I was agreeing with is that in grand scheme of things the pill isn’t that expensive for most people.
Many of my friends were prescribed the pill and didn’t really know how it worked at all, I had to explain things to them. The only reason I knew is I did my own research. Not blaming anyone here but there really isn’t enough education going on in the area of contraception, and we all have to take responsibility for it.
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Oh i totally agree with you! I just wish doctors would be more willing to chat to young woman about the different types of pills and to suit every budget! i think most have pharmecutecal reps pushing certain brands! Im glad u educate yourself, and help your friends, u sound like a wise human!! You are right though, Education is key
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It depends what you need and what you’re using each pill for. I recently had to make the choice to go off fantastic Yaz back onto Levlen due to the EXORBITANT! cost.. About 75-80 for 3 months on Yaz & back to 15-22 for 4 months for Levlen.
I needed it to help me recover from a random bout of adult acne I suffered at 26. It’s been about a year now and I’m 3 months back in Levlen testing the waters but if I have any kind of breakout I’ll be back to budgeting in Yaz again..
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Have you tried ‘Diane’? I read they a quite similar to ‘Yasmine’ (although not exactly the same). I use a generic Diane which is around $30 for 3 months. So that may help.
I switched to Diane after having awful breakouts. They are slowly starting to clear up.
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Thanks HF – Yasmine and Yaz are still a bit different.
Back on Levlen now and all’s well so far. The adult acne took a year to finally heal/get better/go the frick away! haha.. I’m keeping an eye on it and I had also discussed Diane with my doctor.
The use for me is 2-fold in that it is our contraceptive & for my face issue. If it comes back I might give Diane a go as long as it suits me – shame these things take about 4 months to test out hey!
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Ah I see, I always assumed they were the same.
Yes it really does take a while to figure out whether it’s the right one for you. Even then I feel like the only way the pill has worked for me if is if I change brands every 2 years. Around the 2 year mark I get unwanted side effects!
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I bought another pack of Levlen (Monophasic) just yesterday. It cost me just $20.20 (or $5 per month).
It’s cheaper than last time, which was around $30. I’m not sure why! But I’m not complaining.
Unfortunately, for a lot of women (and many of my friends) they have to try a lot of different types of contraceptive pill before they find one that works for them (without all the side-effects) and often end up with a much more expensive brand.
But beware, I also know drug reps whose job it is to push doctors to write scripts for their more expensive “trendy” products. So, just because it’s “the only one that works” for your friend, it doesn’t mean a cheaper one won’t work for you.
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I’m on Levelen and it only costs me ~$13 for 4 months! I have no idea why but the two different chemists in my suburb charge differently – at the other one its more like $22. So it could be worth it to shop around!
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I miss being a student and having a Health Care Card – it was $3 back then!
I will try a chemist warehouse next time Susan, thanks for the tip!
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I’m on Triphasil, and in most Sydney chemists it’s around $15 max. I went to Canberra and had to fill my script and it was $32!!!
Could not believe the difference in price! Especially as I always buy the generic, Trifeme instead!!
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Perhaps you should be a student before you make assumptions about students. I am a student. I have also worked in paid employment to support myself while studying. I also have multiple chronic illness which impacts on both my ability to work and study. I have a casual teaching position at my university. After I pay rent, general household bills, medical expenses – I use the private system as my diseases require more treatment more frequently than the public system can provide therefore this costs a lot of money- including health insurance, doctors, specialists and bucket loads of medicine, there is rarely much leftover for food and socialising. I don’t drink or smoke. Students on austudy given that is well below the poverty line at approximately $400/fortnight, rarely have money for alcohol after all other expenses if they live out of home. Some of my students drink, but most often these students are subsidized by their family in order to reduce social isolation given that they have had to move to the city from country areas to get an education, to a city where social isolation is rampant due to the clique culture. Most students would not be able to afford access to RU486 whether they drink to sustain social relationships or not. If in the event I fell pregnant, I would be advised to terminate given my own health issues, and yet I would still not be able to afford it, even with a job. I frequently struggle to afford food on a special needs diet, let alone another non-PBS prescription.
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I fully support abortion as a concept – but only in certain circumstances because we really MUST improve sexual education to improve the odds of all or most pregnancies being planned.
There are a specific set of circumstances that *I* believe that abortions are definitely ok – such as when the pregnancy is the product of rape, or that the pregnancy itself poses extreme risk to the mother and/or the baby.
What really REALLY irks me is that there are so many people who abort because ‘it jsut happened’, ‘im not ready for kids’ or ‘its not the right time’. I genuinely believe these are selfish reasons to destroy the prospect of that life – if people arent prepared to have a child, they should either use contraceptives (a combination, not just one, where possible), or simply not be having sex.
Before I am accused of being naieve – I actually know many people who have in one way or another expereienced an abortion. There is so much guilt and grieving over a selfish decision. My partner paid for an abortion with his ex, because she decided that contraceptives werent her thing, and literally used pregnancy as a way to get him to stay when he broke p with her but they were still friends with benefits. He still to this day greives that decision, he honestly wishes he just stopped playing starfish with her for that reason – because the decision they made was so terribly selfish of them. he knew he didnt want a future with her, but still played that game of roulette.
I suppose what i am (ineloquently) trying to say is that abortion should really only be a last resort – and for specific and otherwise unfortunate reasons. We should be concerntrating on providing ample support and options for women and families who find themselves with unplanned pregnancies, and also on the education of people who clearly often (me included) forget that while sex is bundles of fun, there can be ‘outcomes’ that you need to be aware of, know how to avoid, and be prepared for.
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while i respect that you are allowed your opinions. I dont think its as simple as u think! i was on the pill when i got pregnant, and was trying to be responsible. i was not ready for a child, and it was a choice my partner and i made together. we were young and only starting our lives together. at the end of the day that was the choice we made, u havent walked in my shoes and i dont regret the choice. i actually think it would have been more selfish bringing a child into the world when i could not support that child and and would not have been able to give it the life it needed! i lived in an RV travelling on the road making little money.
What about when a crack head gets pregnant and has child and the child is born with deformities and not looked after properly and in an out of foster care and then the child has a horrible life. how fair is that!
there are so many more levels than simply ‘im not ready’. If u dont like abortion…..dont get an abortion….but please know there are people in the world where they need the choice to choose for them self. I am sure you wouldnt give all the people a weekly allowance to help raise the children u so desperately want bought into the world.
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I personally (and respectfully) disagree with you in relation to the circumstances in which women should be permitted to have an abortion (that is, I believe a woman has a right to choose whether or not to continue with a pregnancy). However, I do agree with you that we should be providing sex education so that people are more aware of their contraceptive options and the risks associated with unprotected sex.
I think the important point this article is trying to make is that there are lots of benefits of medical abortions (above alternatives such as more invasive procedures) but these benefits are not available to a lot of women in Australia. Regardless of the circumstances in which you think abortions should be conducted, it’s important that they be performed in the least risky, least scary way possible and that means making RU486 easier to access.
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I think your guilt-trip would be better directed at the girls who use no contraception at all and rely on the over the counter morning after pill as their go-to fail-safe.
There wouldn’t be a girl or woman on Earth who doesn’t feel some level of guilt and anguish when they have to have an abortion. It’s cruel to force your opinion on them to make them feel worse.
I have never had to have an abortion. I’ve been very careful, but also very lucky. Things happen. And women shouldn’t have to have a baby if they’re not in a position to do so.
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well said
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I may have missed something here but why should any woman feel any form or guilt or shame for using the morning after pill?
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Yes, I believe you missed ” girls who use no contraception at all and rely on the over the counter morning after pill”
I know several and it’s dangerous and revolting.
I have myself used the morning after pill, when the condom broke and I was only just back into my contraceptive pill after a period. I decided the risk wasn’t worth it.
There’s a big difference between that and a girl who uses no condoms or contraception who just takes the morning after pill after every shag.
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No contraceptive is 100% reliable. You can be responsible and still end up in the position of having an unwanted pregnacy. Unless someone has been in the position of having to decided whether or not to abort I really don’t think they have the right to judge or make negative comments about abortion.
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That is always the easy fall back response “If you haven’t been there, you can’t have an opinion.” If we use this as our answer then do you have to have a teen pregnancy to have an opinion on it? Do you have to shoot heroin to have an opinion on it? Do you have to go to church to have an opinion on it? Do you have to be an aborted fetus to have an opinion about it?
Seriously, I think people should be free to disagree with abortion as much as people are free to agree with it.
For our population we have an incredibly high abortion rate, it is a highly accessed service…why? Is there not enough sex education? Is there not enough thorough counseling before and after a woman has considered her options?
Before anyone even considers taking drugs like RU486 they need to see the complicated side effects that are strongly being recorded in the US.
Abortion is not an open issue, if you speak against it you are responded to with vitriol as you must be anti-womens rights. Can’t someone be “for” women if they are concerned about the consequences to women’s mental and physical well being post abortion?
If women dare regret their decision to have one and feel pain, guilt or remorse, they aren’t game to admit it and seek help, that would be admitting a flawed option. And God forbid the statistics dare to emerge on the fall-out affect on women’s lives post abortion.
If we truly care about womens welfare on this issue then they need to be given the opportunity to consider the impact that an abortion can have on the rest of their lives. It will not be over and done with, it will come to the forefront of their mind at points in their life and it can be an immense concern to live with.
I would suggest that anyone serious about having an informed opinion on RU486 read a book called “Unplanned” by Abbey Johnson.
Just because someone may be anti-abortion does not mean that they are void of compassion, care and love for women in complex situations.
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With all due respect, most scientific, peer-reviewed studies don’t show this enormous physical/mental/emotional fallout after an abortion that some people seem to believe in. List of said studies is here if you’re interested: http://www.prochoiceqld.org.au/facts.html#Risks.
That said, i think there are a small number of women who do experience ongoing sadness post-abortion. However, as someone who has worked in pregnancy counselling, this is a tiny number of women and most of them have very complex situations – generally speaking, if a woman has freely made the decision herself to terminate and is able to access a procedure relatively easily, she is very unlikely to have ongoing problems as a result. It’s other things that cause problems, like issues in the relationship, or the fact that the pregnancy was a wanted one and it because unviable, or something similar.
I also think that if you truly care about women’s welfare then you’d support them and trust them to make the best decision for themselves.
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Very well said!
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I strongly believe that there shouldn’t have to ever be a “because” in the sentence “I would like to have an abortion”.
If someone wants/needs an abortion the reasoning behind it is absolutely none of our business. What we might consider to be a reasonable explanation may, to someone else, be completely unreasonable. No two people have exactly the same circumstances.
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Totally agree with you Mel
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I respectfully disagree that anyone chooses an abortion lightly. It’s not that easy to get one, it’s surgery, and even if you don’t believe that life begins at conception you know that conception could generate life.
I considered an abortion, and my set of circumstances were that my contraception failed, my first child had just been diagnosed with a disability, my second child was still a baby, and i genuinely wasn’t sure if I could cope with another baby and caring for my eldest. Was I being selfish to not consider adoption a viable option? Maybe. But I’d had serious PND after each birth, I can’t imagine what it would have been like if I gave my baby away.
The point of the story is that everyone has their own point of last resort. I absolutely respect that these are your last resorts. Mine are a little different.
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I possibly wasnt clear in my first post:
I do support abortion
I dont rage against anyone who has had them, or will have them
My list of reasons are my own, nor are they exhaustive
My reason for posting is that i think that there should be LESS emphasis on abortion being an option, and MORE emphasis on educating people about contraceptions etc.
I know a LOT of the people involved in past abortions have been profoundly affected for years after – something that i think could have been avoided if there was more education. I am not on a self rigteous rant, i just would really like to see the emphasis shifted to other options in the case of an unplanned pregnancy.
just as an example, i have friends who for the life of them cant conceive. Early 20′s and all that. They have been told that if they want to adopt there is a huge waiting list etc and there isnt a huge amount of options for them. If there was more emphasis on adoption being an option, it may give the baby somewhere to ‘be’, and give these lovely people a baby to love and nurture – rather than the mother choosing to abort.
Thats just one example – and i do fully respect other views on the issue, its just that from what i have seen of the world, there is so much want for children in one corner, and in the other corner there are people demanding the right to abort a pregnancy.
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i understand where u are coming from but adoption is not a simple answer either! I could not walk from about week 15 due to a bad split pelvis(SPD) and was stuck in my house and the hospital for most of the pregnancy! I would do it again in a heartbeat for my own child, but to go through that just to give it away, no way would i ever put myself through that if i had the choice to terminate if i needed too!! i couldn’t work, we were nearly broke by the time i had my child!
So u see, although i totally understand where u are coming from every argument u make ,there is another side to that argument! focus does need to be put on adoption i agree, i would love to adopt a child, but Australian politicians are assholes. Focus cant be taken away from Abortion, because its rarely gets any light on it anyway! I understand the points u have made but we already have millions of children without homes in the world, the government would be better to open up adoption in other countries and make it more widely available for Australians. We support an orphanage in Kenya and there are 50 children that are not allowed to be adopted by Australians, and most will never be adopted. I think the focus should be more with giving home to kids who need it now, and not add more children to the world when its not nessesary!
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Couples who would benefit from adopting babies and women having abortions are two completely different things. I would not consider for one minute having a baby from an unwanted pregnancy just so someone else could adopt that baby. it is nothing to do with selfishness or disregarding anothers inability to have a child. it is a personal decision about ones self, and nothing more.
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I would think that ‘not ready to have a child’ or ‘bad timing’ are perfectly valid reasons for not going through with a pregnancy. having a child is THE most life altering event to happen in anyones life, so deciding to have one or not is very very serious.
And for your information, having a pregnancy terminated is not always soul destroying, regretful, hard… i was relieved when i went through the process as i did not want to have another child, simple.
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I lived in Canada when i was younger and had an unplanned pregnancy and was able to take drugs similar to RU486, i am not entirely sure if its the exact same? But i was offered the choice to use the drugs or have it surgically removed and chose the drugs! it was a bit painful much like an very bad period, but i was given good pain killers and i was able to be in my house with my partner and a friend and we just had a relaxed night and i was able to go into the hot shower as often as i wanted. i wasnt made to feel like a horrible person as i was in the comfort of my own environment. I am sure a hospital there is not that much judgment but its still a cold environment and going through this, is much easier at home!
I do not regret my choice, i am only greatfull i had the choice. I have a 4 year old now and planning for a second!
i hope this becomes available for woman everywhere her in Australia, but i also wish contraception was free. The pill i used to take was $60. there is no way a younger person could afford this, its ridiculous! we need more free clinics that provide helpful info about sex and free contraception and i think the rate of abortion will go down! We also need to remove politicians that let their religion get in the way of their decisions about abortion! When Tony Abbott opens his mouth about this issue it drives me nutts…He is a man, that will not ever go through this and should not dictate who has the choice for an abortion!
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The pill needful be cheaper like in nz and the uk. I m a student and mine is $78 which is ridiculous!
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that is ridiculous! how is a student meant to support themselves and pay that much for the pill. it seriously does need to be free! have chat with yoru Dr and see if there are any other options! the injection is available and u only have it once! see if there is another option.
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My pill is $78 and I can’t have the injections or any other options… wayyy too expensive
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its such a lot of money, when the exact same drug is in other countries for $3. Australia is just getting ridiculous with how expensive everything is becoming! surely the government would see the pill as something every woman has the right to and it should just be free! i hope this changes one day. good luck
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Yeah, I live in NZ and a 6 month supply of my pill costs me $3NZD.
I definitely agree that it should be as cheap as possible!
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If you have private health insurance you can get most of the cost of prescriptive pharmaceuticals back over $30.
If you don’t have private health insurance – you should.
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That depends on what kind of health insurance you have. People on low incomes aren less likely to have private cover, particularly top-level cover.
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I have top level cover in my health insurance and they do not cover contraceptives.
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in my experience, most people who can’t afford prescription drugs are not in the position to be able to pay for private health cover. Not always that easy…
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The standard pills (Levlen ED or similar) are quite well subsidised in Australia at about $13.95 for four months, it’s just the ‘designer’ ones such as Yasmin that aren’t generically available etc that are that expensive. To be fair sometimes people do need those ones though and they have other uses. I started on Levlen but was convinced it was making me gain weight. Switched to Yasmin but eventually I couldn’t afford it anymore, and before switching back to Levlen I weighed myself etc and I actually lost weight when going back on Levlen….it was all in my head and I never actually needed Yasmin in the first place. Anyway just letting you know they don’t have to be expensive
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that is good to hear. i remember at the time i had a few health issues and i tried many different pills and ended up on one that cost $60, it was the only pill that didnt make me put weight on and break out in acne as well, i guess every body is different, and if the cheaper option is available thats fantastic, but it honestly still should be free along with condoms. but hey, we dont have it at bad as America. haha…
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There’s been some negative press about the new more expensive designer pills such as Dianne and Yasmin that has linked the drugs to a much higher incidence of non-fatal blood clots. Doctors are being encouraged to see if their patients can do equally well on the older style pills with different hormone combinations.
Something to think about…
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I use Yasmin and I WISH it was covered by my private health insurance. Would be so great if it was, it really is quite expensive but I make it work as it’s my preferred contraception and I want to be responsible. IMO the pill should be low cost or even free.
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The recent article about Yasmin causing higher rates of DVT than other OCPs has been strongly disputed by the drug company (Bayer). The issue with the study seams to be that when comparing the studies of Yasmin verses other pills, it didn’t take into consideration other patient risk factors for DVT, like weight/age etc. Due to Yasmin’s anti-androgenic effects (less weight gain/acne), the patients who take these are often one’s that are high risk for DVT to begin with- and hence the apparent, but not “real” increased risk seen in this study (ie- it was other factors, not the Yasmin, that made them higher risk). Other controlled studies have not shown an increase risk with these newer pills (but obviously all OCPs do slightly increase the risk of DVT)
I’m not a drug rep for Bayer, I promise! (just a GP who’s had to discuss this with a lot of worried patients!)
Lousiasston was totally correct in her description of why some pills are more expensive than others- Yasmin is still under patent (I think- it must be almost up?), so no other company has been able to release a cheaper version of it as yet (like Brenda for Diane), so the company can charge whatever they want, and it’s not covered by the PBS- hence the expense. Ones like Levlen that are under the PBS are much cheaper
Back on topic, I am absolutely for the legalisation of RU486. I work in the city, so access to this drug for my patients is not such an issue, but it would be much less stressful to patients to have this more readily available in their usual care setting. I am sure not all GPs will be willing to prescibe it, and I imagine those of us who will be will take their patients through a through counselling process prior, during and post treatment. And I absolutely agree that their needs to be a stronger focus on education around safe sex and contraception. Well done to all those involved in the push toward making this drug available as an option for Australian women
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Thanks for this! I recently stopped taking Yaz, not just because of news reports about DVT but because it was making me sick
but my died of an anuerysm so am super cautious about clots or anything that will raise my blood pressure (ex smoker!). Ive been meaning to get to my GP to talk about it but it’s hard with two kids. Anyway I won’t be going back on it, sadly every pill i’ve tried, no matter the cost, has made me ill. So it’s condoms for now, until I can convince hubby to have the snip!
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Margaret, you should think about the Mirena IUD as an option- the amount of hormones is low, it last for 5 years, easily reversed if you choose and it’s very cost effective. Definitely have a chat to your GP (or get your husband too!)
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If people are struggling/poor uni students it is possible to apply for a Low Income Health Care Card from the dreaded Centrelink. This basically means that all of your subsidised prescriptions cost something like $6 each. It won’t cover everyone but it’s worth a look to see if you are eligible.
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100% Agree Monique!
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I sincerely hope that the day will soon come that all women (who have access to emergency care if required) will have access to RU486.
I applaud the Doctors who have made it available to their patients.