The aftermath of the car chase and shooting
The fallout over the police shooting of two Indigenous youths driving a car at speed, and on footpaths, through Kings Cross on Saturday night continues. Footage shows one of the shot youths being dragged from the car covered in blood, thrown to the ground and punched.
One of the youths was 14-years-old and has been ‘in trouble with the law since he was eight’. He and the other boy are in a coma.
As Fairfax reported:
The Deputy Opposition Leader, Linda Burney, who is Aboriginal, said the fundamental question was about how a 14-year-old came to be driving through Kings Cross with five others at that time of day.
She said glaring social problems such as poverty and homelessness were behind the issue, but also parental and community responsibility – or lack thereof.
The Police Minister called for calm and asked for the community to wait until an investigation concluded.
Here’s what else is causing a buzz:
1. Reports this morning Matthew Newton has been arrested again, this time for the battery of a hotel employee in Miami. Sky News is reporting the actor knocked the employee to the ground and chased them around the lobby.
Channel 7 reports the staff member hit the ground after he was punched by the actor, around 4.51am.
Newton was already on bail for charges of trespassing and resisting arrest.
Mia Freedman spoke to psychologist Dr Michael Carr-Gregg about the Matthew Newton dilemma. Mental illness, the media and making up for past mistakes.
2. The big House of Reps survey into same sex marriage bills before the Parliament received a whopping 276,437 responses (an insignificant 4.4% were duplicates). The verdict? Australians are all for gay marriage. 64 per cent reckon they’re fine with it, or more specifically, fine with Greens MP Adam Bandt’s bill.
'Real Barbie' is a combination of surgery and Photoshop, it seems
3. This girl totally looks like Barbie! Well, that’s what she was going for. With a touch of ‘Japanese robot’ thrown in for good measure.
4. A preliminary report handed to Government has suggested – it’s just an option at this stage – that overseas companies pay Goods and Services Tax (GST) on all goods sold to Australians online. That cost would be passed on, obviously.
5. This is definitely not a typo. Chris Brown breeds puppies now. Puppies.
6. Dame Edna and her manager Barry Humphries are the new face(s) of Jenny Craig. Both have pledged to lose 15kg. Each? Hmmm.
Comments
137 Comments so far
Am I the only one who fails to see how a car on a footpath full of people, in a built up area, is any safer with a driver who has been shot at?
3 shootings in less than a fortnight by police is terrifying! Police are being defended and even applauded for shooting 14 year olds, plus they have guns, tasers and batons. Some police officers are in their early 20s. How long until all these factors crescendo into a serious tragedy like those you see in America?
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So what you are saying then is the police shouldn’t have stopped the car? Better to injure innocent bystanders?
There are no winners in this situation but I just can’t make sense of your comment. At least one of the other shootings recently involved a male who was having a psychotic episode and who was threatening other people’s lives. Police have tasers and yet they recently killed someone using it. Who are you going to call on if someone is threatening your life? A police force who won’t use their resources?
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My comment is pure practicality; if a car is driving on a footpath, I fail to see how shooting the driver makes it any safer. The car is still on the footpath, in a built up area, the driver just has no control over it. Therefore surely it would most likely crash and injure more people?
Consider – if a man approaches a police officer with a gun threatening to shoot them, then your reaction is to act in self-defence because their life is threatened. But what about if that man is using a young child as a shield? Then should you shoot them?
My point is that the actions of the police could well have injured innocent bystanders. This is a phenomenon that happens all the time in the US, for example.
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I’m really surprised most people supported the actions of the police. Firstly, the teenager who was shot, wasn’t fighting the police when he was dragged out of the car so bashing him further was completely unnecessary.
Sadly, race is always a factor. Would the driver have been shot if he was caucasian? Probably not. Also, more people would have been against the police actions if he hadn’t been Aboriginal. Also, it would have been no more dangerous to shoot out the back tyres of the car which would have stopped the car almost instantly, then shooting inside the car. Innocent bystanders could have been hurt either way.
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Agreed! Poor readers below don’t really get that. I guess if it was their kid they would be happy to see him shot, fair enough.
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If he was my kid…he would be at home in the middle of the night..not hooning around stealing cars and running people down.
If he did..and the cops didn’t shoot/bash him…I probably would.
Spare a thought for the girl that was injured not those little hoodlums.
How terrifying to have been in the way of that car, essentially a murder weapon.
Spare a thought for our cops, who have to tolerate scum like these every single day of their working lives.
But most of all…spare a thought and wonder how you would feel if it was YOUR daughter they ran down.
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@ Anonymous.
Rubbish!! absolute rubbish!
It’s people like you who make these things racist.
I’d better shut up while I’m still being polite.
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Couldn’t agree more Susan. My stepdad is Aboriginal and he said race wasn’t a factor, they got what they deserved!
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Race has absolutely nothing to do with this. A delinquent child deserves punishment. Like Susan said, if that was my 14yo and the Police didnt bash him I sure as hell bloody well would. Race is irrelevant. Neither is neglect
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I don’t understand why people get too abusive if they want to disagree with someone. Everyone can have a different opinion without it bring “disgusting”.
No one could support the police more then I do, I have many friends who are police and I work for a unit which deals with policing agencies. However I’m not going to blindly agree with the police actions and am entitled to my opinions, as is everyone on these boards.
For all those who said they would have bashed their own child had he been the car, would you also have supported the police for bashing your child after shooting him in the neck? I don’t think so….
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I actually know two of the boys who were in the car. One of them was shot. All of the coverage surrounding this issue has left me so conflicted. I am an ardent supporter of the police and I think that their decision to shoot was one that wouldn’t have been made lightly and probably saved the life of the woman they had run down. I don’t contest that at all. However, to watch footage of a boy that I know be dragged from a car, after having been shot, and be punched, dragged, and just generally beaten is distressing. I don’t condemn the police. I don’t know what I feel about it, other than sick.
It turns my stomach also to hear their parents calling out for ‘justice’. It was 4am. They were in a stolen car, driven by a 14 year old. Where were their parents then? I see parents everyday, of every race, who fail to parent their children. Who don’t know where their kids are at midnight and who don’t care. I’m not saying these boys’ parents don’t care, but they certainly need to look at themselves when they start pointing fingers.
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Why do the media and some of the community think that in a situation like the that of Saturday Night in Kings Cross the Police should think with calm and consideration for the offenders. Whilst the actions of the Police could be viewed as brutal the situation would have resulted in adrelalin running high and thus taken in context should and must be seen as ok.
I’m sick and tired of Civil Libertarians’ such as Michael Murphy claiming that these type of offenders have rights that have been infringed, they give up those rights when they act in this way, what about the right of the 2 women walking down the street to be able to do so with out being put in danger.
Its time the rest of the community send a message loud and clear that we support the actions of the police and that we are not going to allow our rights to take second place to criminals.
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OK, I have to say something to this. Police are out there *so* *that* there’s at least one clear head on the scene when things are going mad. Their *job* is to be calm and rational and take the best course of action when lives are threatened.
My Dad was in the police, and I couldn’t begin to count the discussions around the dinner table about the ethics and policies behind when officers draw their weapons, and what they should intend to do when they do. Probably had one every time there was an incident over the years. For context, he never drew his weapon – even though he was in situations that warranted drawing attention to it, and made other officers think they’d have to draw them.
IMO, the suggestion they should’ve shot out the tires is unworkable – they would make too difficult a target, and the most important thing when an officer draws their weapon is that they’re successful in limiting further risk to themselves and the public. Shooting a target you probably won’t hit is not an option. This is why it’s not police policy to aim to do things like hit shoulders, or shoot guns out of hands. The torso, unfortunately, is the only thing that makes a reliable target. Or the head, if a suicide bomb vest is a concern. As terrible as it would be to make that choice, the other options are worse.
However… the teen got bashed after already being shot? No, if that’s true, that’s not acceptable, and it’s ufortunately possible that adrenaline or racism caused this. At this point, he should’ve been disarmed, and then had his injuries tended to – while being arrested / detained. I hope all such issues are thoroughly explored in this review.
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My favourite quote from an article I read in the Daily Tele… “Why couldn’t they just shoot at the tyres of the car?”
Yeah, that’s the way. Shoot at the tyres while there is someone pinned underneath. This question was from the Father of one of the “victims” in the car.
This whole situation just sucks. It is now being stirred up by the media to no end. It would appear they are trying their very best to cause “race tensions” along the lines of what was seen when T.J. Hickey died (riots, etc).
This is not a race issue. It is a deadshit issue. I could go on but won’t.
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The simple equation is: if you do not break the law these things will not happen to you. Funnily enough I’ve never been shot in the neck and punhced by a copper because, surprise surprise, I’ve never gotten off my head, flogged a car and mowed down pedestrians. But hey if I decided that I wanted to do that one day I would fully accept and understand that the full force of the law would be used to take me down.
Age and race is not an issue here- these kids aren’t stupid, despite doing a stupid thing. They knew what they were doing was wrong but the fact that their parents/whoever raised them with shitty attitudes was their downfall. And their parents telling police to focus on “real criminals”? Again if you don’t want your kids to be shot by a copper then maybe you should raise them right. It’s not rocket surgery. Their kids ARE the criminals- they broke the law.
I wouldn’t be a copper for quids.
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OK so it’s not mentioned in this post – but why did the Edelsten woman go public with the affair? Did I miss something?
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I just had a quick look at the Chris Brown website. Was anyone able to find out what breed the puppies were? I’m pretty sure he just gives their names, and that’s it. Nothing about his background with dogs, how they are raised, what age they are sold at or anything. Even the most basic dog breeder includes the breed of dog being sold on their website.
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Good result on the gay marriage survey. Apparently the Australian Christian Lobby are upset by it, even though they advertised the survey themselves (obviously hoping to outnumber all of the Australians who have a life and don’t see any need to oppose other peoples rights to love and marry)
Melbourne Uni need same sex parents for a study. I know we have a few in our Mamamia community so I wanted to share in case you want to get involved in what I believe will be meaningful research:
http://www.achess.org.au/
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If you were a policeman and someone was trying to kill or injure innocent civilians going about their business and then you are required to neutralise the threat by whatever means available in the earlist time. If an r-soul then resists arrest as I saw when one of the criminals resisted being handcuffed when he was on his stomach with his hands behind his back I would have punched him and need him into compliance as well. I love all these arm chair critics who have absolutely no idea. What amuses me most is people who have never been in combat and who criticise the actions of soldiers who are under threat of death. Just wankers. Walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgement.
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you don’t need to walk a mile in someone’s shoes to understand the effects of poverty and homelessness. maybe we need to take a few steps back and look at the base problems. I’m not trying to make this a redfern issue, but i am really wondering about how different this would be if they were caucasian; a slap on the wrist? a boys will be boys throwaway line? we’re talking about kids here.
and yes i may be an armchair critic (whatever that means…was anyone actually there that night?) and no i do not know what its like to be a policeman. but im guessing that the majority here also don’t know what its like to be an indigenous youth from redfern. this is more complex than the argument that police were just doing their job. its more than that. obviously, otherwise we all wouldnt be here talking about it. and i cant help but think that this would have been different if those boys were white.
p.s. bit off topic…as anyone read any work by paul farmer on structural violence? cant help but think of it here…brilliant stuff!
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Meanwhile they can’t just let these kids run wild. If they want to act like ‘adults’ then they can be treated as ‘adults’. The cops are there to protect the public, not to step in and offer help, resources and support to people who obviously don’t want it. So until the day when everyones living peacefully, you can expect to get shot if you’re on a rampage trying to run down pedestrians. They can’t claim to be ignorant of that. You break the law, you get punished. And frankly race is not an issue, I (and most others) would feel exactly the same if they were white, asian, whatever. If you’re doing dumb shit and get caught and punished, that’s your issue.
I had a kid try and steal my car one night a few months ago. Thankfully I heard their quiet little screwdriver-ing at my lock so I naturally went apeshit at them. They had a hoodie on and ran off pretty quick so I’ve no idea what ethnicity they were and I don’t actually care- how dare they steal my stuff? If I’d caught them you bet there would’ve been violence involved, and I’m not a copper, just a regular woman in her 20s. And if I hadn’t stopped them would it have been my car running people down? Meanwhile they’re still out there stealing stuff and potentially killing people etc in the future. Goodo.
I don’t know what it’s like to be an indigenous youth but I do know they’re not stupid. Saying ‘oh but it’s their upbringing’ really just gives them livence to behave like this. Blaming your upbringing is a cop out- take some responsibility and be the better person rather than acting like a selfish idiot and endangering lives. Not everyone who has a shitty childhood turns out ‘bad’.
Sorry for levelling my rant at you! I’ve just had a gutful of ‘the police are too brutal’… If they’d done nothing wrong that night they’d still be happily going along their merry way and not be shot right now. It’s their own fault. Time to grow up!
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there’s a difference though between punishment and being shot. I can’t help thinking about the Trayvon case in the States (I mean obviously different because he wasn’t doing anything wrong) but I remember reading an article written by an African American journalist saying that he had to teach his son different things than a white parent would teach theirs. How sad that he would have to teach his son to ALWAYS leave his hands out of his pockets to avoid getting shot.
I think you’re right, they were doing the wrong thing, but I think the fact that people are so torn about what the police did indicates that there is an issue here that needs to be talked about and the fact that people are talking on here about aboriginal deaths in custody and racism (and elsewhere in the press as well). people wouldn’t be talking about it if it didnt exist. its obviously happened before. police arent always shining beacons of integrity, and race affects more than what we realise.
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I think in this instance race is only an issue because the parents/family of these offenders are saying it is. I am of the opinion that police would have acted in exactly the same way regardless of their ethnicity. I doubt they had the forethought to think ‘are they aboriginal? okay in that case we will shoot them. white? in that case we will let them go’. It seems a bit far-fetched and ridiculous. They reacted to the situation on instinct, as they are trained to do. And for the families to use race as an excuse just pisses people off. It doesn’t make everyone agree or say say ‘woe is them’. It makes us say ‘stop twisting the blame and distorting the issue, the problem here is that regardless of skin colour, these people nearly killed someone’.
America seems to have a lot of issues that we don’t have in Australia. Trayvon was killed because their laws say you can use deadly force if your life is in danger, and that man (who was NOT a police officer) obviously was a complete criminal and is now being punished for that. That one man had an issue with race, and acted on it. The rest of the world is now against him, a white man, because they do not have the problem with race that he does.
As you say, in this situation the police did not act entirely appropriately and are not beacons of integrity, but as a result one has been charged. So it’s not like the law is endorsing their behaviour. Meanwhile despite that it still would not have happened if those people had not committed crimes that night.
I am really not articulating myself properly but I’m hoping you’re kind of picking up what I’m putting down!
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If they were white boys mowing people down on the footpath, I really don’t think the police would have waved them down with, like, a glowstick, you know?
Not denying the Redfern problem, but the police have to act in the moment. I doubt they even had time to consider any racial issues in the heat of the crisis.
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Exactly. To argue that white kids would have recieved different treatment in a mad situation like this, beggars belief.
If anyone started claiming the story is about 4 indigenous kids who tried to kill a white woman, they would be considered silly.
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QLD police have shot a few white people lately… don’t think it’s a ‘race’ issue, I think it’s an ‘idiot’ issue!
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I’ve spent an extensive amount of my career working with ATSI people and I know many I could speak to now would strongly disagree with you about the difference if those who broke the law were white. Lets not assume racist, yes I agree those who’ve been brought up in proverty will have a higher chance of committing crime however I cannot agree that a slap of the wrist would be the outcome if they were white. There is no waythat if white boys ran down a person on a footpath they would recieve anything other than the strongest punishment, no different than these boys will. I am concerned about your lack of sympathy for the lady who was run down. Do you not have any concern for her? Who knows what background she comes from but I do know she in no way deserved this and if she was a relative if yours I’m sure you’d have more sympathy.
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Cops are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
Quite frankly if you don’t want to be on the end of “police brutality” or whatever you want to call it, don’t do anything wrong. If you break the law first, and what you are doing is violent and dangerous to members of the general and innocent public, then your welfare is the least of my concern. To me, you’ve given up your rights when you put the lives of others in danger.
I also agree with Linda Burney but then again, it’s also not just socio-economics, poverty and homelessness that is the issue. I have no idea what would solve the issue of kids doing sh*t like this but more responsibility needs to lie with the parents and the kids themselves. I refuse to believe that a kid of 14 doesn’t know that stealing a car and driving it recklessly doesn’t know he’s doing something wrong.
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Wow. ” if you don’t want to be on the end of “police brutality” or whatever you want to call it, don’t do anything wrong.”
There is so much wrong with this statement, I don’t know where to start. Rough them up first and then ask questions later, is that what you advocate? Are you even aware of the epidemic of aboriginal deaths in custody? Why don’t we just take away their rights and that will solve the problem.
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Yes I am aware. I have studied criminology for a number of years, with most of it focusing on Aboriginal deaths in custody.
I’m not saying that police never do the wrong thing and there are many examples that show that some do take it to extremes and beat on people for no real reason and I don’t agree with that.
But in this specific case, these kids broke the law, put lives in danger and had absolute disregard for anybody in their way. I don’t know all the facts but I’m sure they had a few chances to stop before the shooting began and punching occurred and they chose to ignore them. I didn’t make that clear but that’s what my statement of police brutality referred to.
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“if you don’t want to be on the end of “police brutality” or whatever you want to call it, don’t do anything wrong.”
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this statement. Alex, who mentioned taking away Aboriginal rights??
This is all about police doing the job they are employed to do. Would your response have been different if they had not stopped these kids and they had ended up killing a person or several people by their reckless actions? Would you have then accused the police of not doing enough? Cops can’t win. But I am certain you would never want to do their job.
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I think you’re confusing ‘police brutality’ with ‘justifiable force’.
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Huh? Your statement makes no sense! They commited a crime, hence, shit happened. If they HAD NOT COMMITED A CRIME nothing would have happened, right or wrong. The cops didn’t just go out and decide to shoot someone, they reacted to WHAT THOSE PEOPLE DID WRONG. I manage on a daily basis to not get shot. Why? I do nothing wrong. It’s actually not that hard!
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In fact in many cases when people commit crimes there is no violent police response. The difference in this case was that they drove a car on the footpath and mowed someone down. Could have been many many people killed if the cops hadnt acted so decisively, and then what would we all be saying about them?
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If they’ve stolen a car, are being chased by the cops for that and you know, being 14 and driving said car, then deciding to try and make a run for it on the footpath in the cross and taking one person out and threatening others, then I’d say the cops don’t really need to ask questions. They do, however, need to stop the crazy shit going down as soon as possible. Which they did.
How on earth does that relate to Aboriginal deaths in custody?
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I think that police did a great job at stopping the car before more people were put in danger. However, it’s the narrow mindedness of some of the comments that these types of incidents are isolated because they are not reported on the news and the ‘arrest’ was not captured on video. What these young men did was terrible, but if you think that it’s OK for the police to issue a bit of ‘side punishment’ to the offenders then therein is the problem.
There are two facts arising from the Kings Cross incident that relate to aboriginal deaths in custody (or any deaths in custody for that matter). The offenders were aboriginal and the police, as I see it, thought roughing them up a bit was OK. It is this thinking that leads to aboriginal deaths at the hands of police (I’m originally from WA where this is an epidemic). I was responding to a comment above which states that this type of behaviour is OK. It’s not and we have a justice system that deals with that and includes criminal injuries compensation for those victims.
Whether you like it or not those offenders have rights. This dates back hundreds of years to the Magna Carta and before you get on you high horse and say what about the rights of the victims – that is not the issue here what happened should not have happened, but it did. As a comment above stated that because they have committed a violent crime they have no rights and hence mob mentality rules.
I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind, but I do hope to broaden your thinking.
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I have no problem with offenders having rights to defend themselves. Please don’t make strawman arguments about what I or anyone else believes. Of course they have that right. Society, however, also has the right to say “Well, you know what? We have these laws, and you broke a bunch of them, and what happened to you is what happens.” I’ve asked elsewhere – what about the rights of the other people around just going about their business?
If you’re sitting in a car running from the cops and that car has already collected one person, and others lives are in danger, what happens? Expect to be stopped by any force deemed necessary at the time.
The fact still remains that they were breaking a heap of laws, they wouldn’t stop so someone had to stop them.
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Deputy opposition leader, Linda Burney, said the fundamental question was how a fourteen year old came to be driving a car through King’s Cross at that particular time.
He stole the car and decided that an early morning joy ride was appropriate ?
It would seem that there are many who are wish to use race as an reason to excuse the behaviour of the youths and a reason to point the finger at the police.
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The only force I see unreasonable is when they started punching and kicking them after pulling them out of a car- you could see they had already surrendered, they weren’t going anywhere.
It seems full on for them to have unloaded 5 bullets on the car, but realistically it was those bullets that stopped them.
It is such a shame that there are such young kids out there who are on such downward spirals.
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I am sorry, I can’t understand how anyone can have the opinion that the police used excessive force in this case. These kids (and one adult high on drugs and alcohol) stole a car at 1.00am. God knows what they got up to in that time until the inevitable crash at 4.00am. They couldn’t control the vehicle and ended up nearly killing dozens of people walking along the footpath. Eventually, a poor girl got mowed down. The car was on top of the girl and the kids in the vehicle locked the doors and windows.
What the bloody hell were the police supposed to do?
Ask them nicely to step out of the vehicle and comply? I think these boys were lucky that they are alive and that the police only injured them, and that they didn’t get shot in the head. If Australia was more like the US, they would be dead.
Who was to know that they didn’t have guns on them?
Also, how the hell did the family members get to the site of the crash within 5 minutes? Did they know that their family members were driving a stolen car in The Cross?
It says a lot about the parents and guardians of these children that they are roaming the streets at night getting up to no good when the children have had dealings with the law before.
I honestly don’t understand this “Think of the children” mentality when these kids knew exactly what they were doing and were criminals of the lowest form. And it has nothing to do with their race and everything about protecting the public that they serve.
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Completely agree! If i had kids, I would be damn pleased that this incident means that those ‘peers’ are off the street and will be facing justice shortly.
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I’ve been so shocked by those armchair critics who are slamming police for their use of force.
If I was standing on the footpath with a car coming towards me I would want police to use every weapon they had to stop the driver.
As for those who said “he was only 14″ – well, how were the police to know that? He was driving at car at 4am. Teenager is not the first thing that would come to mind.
None of us can know what it’s like to be a police officer in that moment and all the decisions you have to make in that split second.
As for why they punched the guy after dragging him from the car – again, who knows what was going on. Perhaps they didn’t realise he had been shot. Perhaps the others in the car were swinging at police.
I think it’s an incredibly tough job dealing with incredibly dangerous people and they do their bloody best.
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I couldn’t agree more Mia!
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Absolutely agree Mia!
The adrenaline which would have been pumping through these cops would override – and for good reason.
These youths should be shown the same courtesy, respect and concern that they obviously had for the innocent civilians they endangered – none.
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I agree with Mia! However, I don’t agree with these statements, Cait.
The officers should respond on the basis of procedure and rationality when adrenaline is high – that’s their job. I’m concerned that maybe this didn’t happen here, although I’m not sure the public have all the facts.
And the second statement reminds me of the golden rule – you treat people how you *want* to be treated. *Not* how they actually treat you. Justice, and those society employs to act with justice, should hold themselves to a higher ideal, not stoop to the level of the perpetrators. See my comment above (i.e. to a post of a later date/time) about my personal context here. I’m not a police officer, but my Dad was, so my thinking and ethics in this are *reasonably* well informed. And I wouldn’t want to be in the officers’ shoes for anything!
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“Footage shows one of the shot youths being dragged from the car covered in blood, thrown to the ground and punched.”
I think the blood might have been a bit of a hint that he’d been shot.
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With all due respect, if you are full of adrenaline are you going to give a suspect a once over before removing them from the scene and/or handcuffing them?
I personally wouldnt be making it my first priority. My first priority would be protecting the public – and myself -from the known threat (not that I would throw punches) that these youths posed that night.
Also, realistically, any blood could have been from the ensuing accident. I think when shooting at a moving vehicle, you shouldnt automatically assume any blood is from a gunshot wound if there were other stages to the incident.
I know the punches were harsh, but even a person who is shot or tasered etc (there was an example in sydney 2 weeks ago) might be able to hurt innocent people.
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I think if the police have just put some bullets through a windscreen it would be remiss of them not to assume blood is from a gunshot wound!
For the record I think they did the right thing shooting at the car to stop it, but given the potential seriousness of a gunshot wound i would think that after firing their weapon assessing the scene for people with injuries should be relatively high on their list of priorities. With great power comes great responsibility…
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See Rudyroo’s comment below re bullet wounds – its not a priority in my opinion to give a full assessment of the possible damage to a perpetrator when there are more pressing matters afoot.
If the bullet had grazed the perp and they were able to assault officers because they werent properly restrained would you feel differently?
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What were they supposed to do? Give him a hug?
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Did I suggest that?
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No you didnt, but I dont think the Police should be criticised for dealing with a highly dangerous situation in the way they did. The blood could have been from anything and I’m sure they didnt know whether or not the boy was armed. They had to assume he going to resist or fight back and possible shoot them or others nearby and restrain him as quickly as possible.
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Me too Mia. The newspaper failed to report the full facts as always. The only reason they shot the kids who had stolen a car was because they had a woman pinned underneath it and they were about to drive off with her under the car! Let’s report all the facts instead of jumping on the ‘we hate police wagon’.
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He was known to police, they knew he was 14.
I guess I’m one of the arm chair critics here, and I’ll happily be called a bleeding heart lefty for it. So many issues, so important not to oversimplify them. So important to recognise your privilege.
Why was he not at home, why had he been in trouble with the poice since he was 8? Guess what, Kings Cross at 4am is safer than some homes. I don’t know this kid, I’m not presuming to, but this sort of thing makes my blood boil.
Read what Linda Burney said – kids disconnected from school, disconnected from their culture. These are massive things. These are things which make me want to weep.
I have very close friends who are police. They do an incredibly hard job and have to make quick and dangerous decisions. However, they are not, and should never be, above the law or above reproach in any way. That makes life so much more unsafe.
Before one of you makes a comment about me sitting in my Eastern suburbs house sipping on a latte having no clue about these issues, know that I live in a Western NSW town which is very disadvantaged socio-economically. (I am also currently sipping on a latte, but still).
Do I think that car should have been stopped? Of course. Do I think someone needs to be punched in the face after being shot? Er, no.
I don’t know what else to add, I am distressed beyond belief at this.
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Gosh I like you Frankie. Really missed reading your comments while you were on hiatus.
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“However, they are not, and should never be, above the law or above reproach in any way. That makes life so much more unsafe.”
Yes, this.
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I don’t think anyone is expecting or advising the police should be ‘above the law or beyond reproach’. There are inquiries and investigations into these incidents for that reason.
But lets let those processes take place and take a step back and take a deep breath about it.
And yes, the social problems these offenders have grown up with are tragic and appalling and should be dealt with. This however has little relevence to the officer, I would imagine, in the few seconds the shooting occurred.
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Exactly. It’s everything Linda Burney said, but the cops are dealing with what is happening now and how to stop that. Not about sitting down for a cuppa with Mum and Dad and working out strategies to get the kids interested in school.
If the kids are known to the cops, they KNOW what they’re doing is wrong, they were running from the cops. They were on drugs so unpredictable as well. Stop whatever bad stuff is happening at the time, then help them out.
What about the girl who was run over’s rights and her life? Or the other people around? Or the person who owned the car that they stole? What about their rights? Why is the focus on the kids who broke the law and how hard done by they are?
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I agree with what you say Frankie but how were the police to know that the person DRIVING A CAR AT 4AM was a 14 year old child? Agree completely what happened after he was pulled out of the car was appalling.
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Playing devils advocate here. Just because the 14 yo was known to police does not mean he was known to every police officer.
Yes this will sound mean, but I’d rather see a criminal die what ever age they are than have that criminal be protected so he can kill many other innocent members of society. Had he not have been stopped he many have killed a number of innocent people minding their own business that evening. Do I feel sorry for him, absolutely not. Sorry.
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Yes, “known to police” doesn’t mean “the police recognise him and know him well”. I’s a nice way of saying “he’s been in trouble with the law in the past”.
There is no reason to assume that they would have recognised him while he was driving, put two and two together and realised there was a teenager driving.
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Yes no one is above the law – and neither are these kids. They were recklessly endangering the lives of innocent bystanders and I believe the police action was taken on that basis, not on their race.
Yes I appreciate that they have probably had very difficult childhoods, but so have many young offenders of all different backgrounds, they still have to take responsibility for their actions at the end of the day.
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I’m totally with you on this too, Mia.
Armchair critics really piss me off.
The situation occurred in a manner of seconds. And there was a hell of a lot of decisions to be made by the cops and the offenders in those seconds.
If people really really feel they have to sit around and judge this situation, then at least get ALL the facts before you do. Oh and spend a day in the shoes of a police person might help as well.
I really feel sorry for these offenders, being so young. But I’m kind of glad?..(glad, not really the right word in this situation)…that the main injuries occurred to the offenders, and not to the innocent bystanders. Often it’s quite the opposite.
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Mm, “bloody” being the key word in this instance.
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Police can’t win. They are always accused of doing too much or too little.
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“dragged from the car covered in blood, thrown to the ground and punched” is the point. This reminds me of the Treyvon Martin case in that, some how, somewhere it will be forgotten that one of the people involved was a CHILD!
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Agreed. Although Trayvon was actually innocent.
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Innocent or not, a fourteen year old should not be dragged by police from a car, thrown to the ground and punched. One could argue neither should an adult.
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No, I agree. See my comments below.
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Sorry – should really learn to read all the comments before hitting reply!!
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Um sorry, I know plenty of 14yo children. Their parents would know where they are and I’m pretty sure none of them have a history with the police and would be allowed out at night without a parent with them, let alone driving around in a stolen car and running innocent people over.
The kids deserved whatever punishment was deemed necessary to stop them. The parents deserve neglect charges.
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Doesn’t that make the kids you know lucky? I don’t think it does any good to compare the boys in this story to teenagers that you or I know. They may as well come from different planets. My son turns 8 in 2 weeks. The 14 year old in the story had a criminal record from 8 years old. I won’t even let my son go to sleep-overs yet let alone let him go out unsupervised and get in trouble with the law.
It sounds like the kid has been neglected for a long, long time. At what age do you start holding the kid responsible?
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The child is 14 so his parents or guardians are responsible for him. End of story.
No child of that age should be out at 4am. And no, I dont think it makes the kids I know or your child lucky, I think it makes them normal and it means their parents and carers are doing their jobs.
Any child who has had a criminal record since he was 8 years old clearly does know right from wrong, because he has been in trouble with the law for doing the wrong thing many times before. He knowingly made the wrong choice, the fact that he tried to get away from the Police by driving down the footpath confirms that. I think we are making too many allowances for kids like this and their families. I think the law is too soft on teenage delinquents and their neglectful families.
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Well we obviously come from very different backgrounds Lu. Where I grew up if you had a ‘normal’ home life you were considered lucky.
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Surely the question should be “At what point do you hold the parents responsible”? They brought these kids into the world after all.
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Thats really sad Anonymous, but that doesnt justify criminal behaviour, or mean that it should be tolerated or make it excusable. Tragically lots of kids have terrible home lives and I’m sure most know right from wrong and dont go around stealing cars, injuring innocent members of the public and making themselves a nuisance to the Police.
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No, I agree. If person who has driven into a crowd of innocent people minding their own business and pinned a woman under the car is obviously in his right mind and willing to co-operate with police.
The officer should have tapped on the window and said, ‘Come on now Sonny, you’ve had your fun. I’m sorry but I’m going to have to give you a ticket, if you don’t mind.’ ?????
At least that way, when the cop has a bullet hole in his chest, he can die knowing that the hand wringers won’t condemn him for doing his job in protecting the lives of the innocent.
Shame on you.
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Trayvon was innocent ? I believe this case is still active. Zimmerman is claiming that he was attacked, assaulted and Martin tried to take his gun. I dont know how you can say he was innocent (or guilty) just yet
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… who was driving a motor vehicle along a footpath and had run over an innocent woman and was prepared to continue on his rampage of terror!! The police did the right thing. How was the cop to know whether this lunatic was armed or not? I’d rather the ‘child’ be dealt with than have an innocent policeman shot dead by these thugs.
To our police force – good work and thank you.
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For me, it is nothing like the Martin case. Martin was an innocent boy walking along the street not in a stolen car driving along the footpath. Yes both children but that is where the similarity ends
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A child that could have killed someone.
A child that should have been at home at that hour.
Blame the parents not the police.
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a CHILD you say. a CHILD would not normally BEHAVE like this. to be honest..if i experienced someone behaving like this i’d probably feel like punching there lights out as well ! i don’t condone violence but have no sympathy for people breaking the law especially in such a dangerous manner. black..white..pink or green. whatever your culture or socio economic background..there is no excuse for irresponsible behaviour. i think the indigenous excuse is wearing thin…
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btw- real barbie… bahaha! why would you?
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What people forget is that those youths also had a deadly wepon- a car. They had the potential, and the intent it seems, to kill tens of people and everyone would have been crying out “where were the police?!”
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Please. Put Matthew Newton in jail for ten years so we can have a break from hearing about him. At this stage the news is more shocking when he has NOT been arrested ! Ew at the doll thing. I wish it hadnt have gone viral. The shooting Is disgusting. Why do Police get away with that behaviour here? If that was anywhere else there would be protests etc. not here. We respect and trust the cops wayy too much.
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Are you serious? We respect and trust the cops way to much?? This attitude is the problem with our society at the moment!
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See comment below!
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The cops are out there every day endangering their lives every time they go to work, doing a job that no one else wants to do. Your lack of respect is appalling.
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Don’t you think though that with some of them it ‘goes to their heads’, all that power and everyone (just about everyone anyway) looking up to them. I think their needs to be some level of accountability (more than there is now).
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So its ok to punch a bloodied child you have already shot, is it? Surely he wouldnt have been much danger then, when he’s 14 and has been shot? You respect that do you?? ok. Well you go and respect that and stand by that blindly but I can assure you if it was a white child, you would be acting VERY differently.
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‘i can assure you if it was a white child, you’d be acting very differently’??
No, wouldn’t! As I said below, race and age doesn’t come into it for me…. They were criminal thugs with no respect for the law or other peoples safety.
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I know that. I never said they werent. What I am saying, is, do you think its ok to punch a 14 year old child when you have already shot them? Do you really think that was necessary? You dont question things do you, you just blindly stand by. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. I’d love to be a robot like you sometimes but I like to question people sometimes, when they do something wrong. I dont apoligise for that. If it were a blond, blue eyed, nazi youth that aussies seem to love, I just know the reaction would be different. I’ll check in with you again when that happens.
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I totally disagree that it is anything to do with race. I agree that the police should not have punched the child. But I do think they were within their rights to shoot – had they not done that, who knows what would have happened to innocent bystanders. I think that people are far too quick to play the race-card, I for one wouldn’t have a different opinion whether the kid was Chinese, Indian, Anglo, Hispanic, European, etc etc. It has nothing to do with that. It is time for people to start taking responsibility for their actions, no matter what their race. That includes the police for punching him, but also the kid and the passengers.
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Is that what I said? Way to make a straw man Jennie. If they weren’t driving a stolen vehicle and evading the police by driving on the footpath, endangering innocent peoples lives, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
Anonymous – of course there are some idiots who let the power go to their heads. But the majority are just trying to do their job.
One of my best friends is a cop and some of the stories he has told me are horrific. People spit at him and his colleagues, call them every slur under the sun and yet when these same people are in trouble, they still go and do their best to help, often risking their own lives in the process.
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mmm, two of my friends are cops. Once, when he was on duty and talking to me, there was an accident involving two cars and someone was inured. He laughed, sipped his coke and said “I so didnt see that.” and went on talking. That’s the least of what I’ve seen. At the end of the day, there are some dodgy cops around.
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I think that says more about the invidual who you call a ‘friend’ rather than the police force as a whole.
Your friends actions are statistically a speck amongst the overall duties and heroism in the police force.
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Argh, I need to take back my ‘like.’ Your comment about respecting the police too much is just appalling.
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Well I’m just not going to respect them in this instance, like you all obviously do. Sorry, forgot its ok to beat up someone you have shot. Let’s never question them again! I forgot its not ok to have an opinion.
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How do you know that the cop knew the criminal had been shot? He was acting to protect the public and a woman who was trapped under a car!
And trying to play the race card is preposterous and makes my blood boil!
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“How do you know that the cop knew the criminal had been shot?”
We don’t ‘know’ anything, but the kid had been shot in the neck – I’m not a doctor but I would expect that to cause quite a bit of bleeding.
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Actually, a shot to the neck does not necessarily mean quite a bit of blood at all. It depends on the wheres and hows of the contact of bullet to tissue. Also, not all bleeding is external.
A shot to the neck sounds graphic, and is very dangerous, but bullet wounds aren’t always necessarily like we see them in the movies…ie blood everywhere.
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Dont wont to get punched by the cops then dont steal a car drive on the footpath and run over innocent people. If that was my loved one pinned under the car I would applaud the cops using brute force to get the thugs to the ground and under arrest. None of the thugs were laying quietly on the ground they were all putting up a fight.
Go the cops!
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What’s th eproblem with Chris Brown? All he did was to defend himself against psychological and emotional Domestic Violence. We all know that psychological and emotional violence is worse than physicall violence so he used a lesser form of violence. Or do you believe that Rhianna was just sitting quietly humming a tune when Brown decided to bash her? Even Rhianna admitted it was her fault. Now she wants him back and she hassles his current girl friend.
But what about that filthy female who tells the world about her liason with an Australian living overseas? What about HIS privacy. Females can’t keep their mouths shut when they have sex. Got to tell everyone. Just another reason to stay well away from Aussie females.
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Burned by an Australian female were you, Haysoos?
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You are so not a nice person.
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“a lesser form of violence” I choked on my protein shake!!!!
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“lesser form of violence”
Hmm, are you willing to test that?
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Bitter much?
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‘Just another reason to stay well away from Aussie females’
OK.
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Here’s hoping he does hey?
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I really feel sorry for the police. Race or age doesn’t come into for me, they’re criminal thugs with no respect for the law. What were the police meant to do?stand in front of the car and politely say ‘please stop’? They deserve what they got… Maybe, just maybe, other dickheads out there will be deterred from doing something so stupid for fear for the same thing appending to them.
The police officers in this situation didn’t wake up thinking ‘I’m going to shoot someone today’. Give the police a break- its about time these losers got respect for the law and if it means the police need to use excessive force, then so be it.
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*happening to them.
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Uh, when you said Chris Brown breeds puppies I got really excited because I thought you meant Bondi Vet Dr Chris Brown! Disappointed followed when I clicked on the link
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Is that the Bondi Vet’s name too? Jaysus. Sorry, I thought there was only one of any notoriety … hence why I was so surprised he’s breeding puppies.
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I thought that too little jojo!
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Oh I LOVE Bondi Vet, Chris Brown, and my morning would’ve been much brighter if the article was about him instead of that moronic “other” Chris Brown.
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Yep *grin* that was my thought too! Although given that the article made it sound unlikely (i.e. “this is not a typo”), I figured it *could* be the ‘other’ Chris Brown.
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I am SO over Matthew Newton and it disgusts me that his recurring behavior is bring blamed on mental illness. There are so many people struggling with mental illness in Australia who are genuine and caring people.
Matthew Newton just seems like a jerk who has no sense of consequence. Give him a sentence in the courts that is suitable for a multiple offender of assault. He shouldn’t get any preferential treatment because his parents are famous.
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Best comment ever on this topic. What a shame it’s hidden amongst all the other comments on other issues.
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I’m behind the police in this situation. And agree that the qiuestions we should be asking in regards to this case are- what is a fourteen year old boy doing driving a stolen car through kings cross at 4 am? He has already committed similar offences. If I was the person they had run over I would be glad they were shot. The police had seconds to react to protect people and stopped them doing anymore damage. People need to start looking after their kids, you can’t just turn around and blame police. I wish we were more like America were children can be removed from negligent parents and then adopted. Here it’s just foster homes and more hurt and disruption leading to people that end up like this.
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I don’t think anyone is arguing that the police didn’t have to act quickly to bring the situation under control to keep the general public safe (though I think it’s appalling that you would be glad that someone is shot and in a coma). Their actions after the teenagers were shot is what is causing concern and frankly horrified me.
The footage is shocking – one child was dragged from the car (now at a standstill), bleeding from a bullet wound to the neck and punched, several times in the head, then dragged onto the footpath. This teenager is now in a coma. From the bullet wound or from the two or three punches he received to the head after being shot?
I understand that emotions would have been running high, the police would have been under high levels of stress and adrenaline and they are human but there is no excuse for that kind of action. It wasn’t needed to subdue the teenager – he was already shot.
I support the police force, I think they have the hardest job in the world – however while we need to support our police, we also need to hold them to account for their actions.
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This comment. Wrote what I didn’t have time to. Perfect.
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I know this might sound stupid to some, but did the policeman who punched him realise he’d been shot? My mum is a paramedic and she’s told me stories about situations where utter confusion reigns and mistakes are made. I know it sounds stupid but he may not have realised what happened. I think it’s too early to condemn the officer from what we know or think we see in the footage.
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100% correct! How would the officer know whether the offender was armed and about to open fire on the crowd that they had just RUN DOWN! I’m right behind the police on this and it astounds me that others aren’t. I don’t want to see another police officer killed in the line of duty to appease the sensibilities of civil libertarians who side with the criminal and disregard the rights of the police and general public.
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I wondered that too, and if you look at the footage there doesn’t seem to be a lot of blood (hard to tell as the child’s face is blurred). I’m withholding judgement until more facts are known.
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The kid was dragged from the car. He’d been shot in the neck! Even if the cop didn’t now he’d been shot (which is a whole other problem), there was no reason to punch him, as he wasn’t fighting back. Unless their orders are to beat everyone who could possibly resist arrest, even if they aren’t currently resisting arrest.
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Looking at that footage, to me, he was fighting back..that’s the thing. So I can see why the police punched him. It was after the punch that he settled a bit. He was definitely not allowing himself to be handcuffed and submitting quietly.
Also there was no visible blood at that time..the blood became obvious later when he was lying still and therefore permitting it to pool. Not sure why they dragged him so far though? To get off the road perhaps?? Who knows.
But who are we to sit here and judge about this situation on the basis of the short, poorly visible footage?
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I agree with you anonymous -”what if he was armed” (etc) is not a good enough reason to punch someone repeatedly.
I understand police sometimes have to use force, and it’s an ugly part of the job, but on the video the punching looked unnecessary and senseless.
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I said that if I was the girl that was pinned under the car I would be glad the boy was shot- so that someone could come and assist me. Or is she not as important as the low life thug behind the wheel? If the boys hadn’t have stolen the car, resisted police, mounted a busy footpath and then pinned a girl under the car they wouldn’t have been shot. Police don’t go wow I want someone to do something utterly shit tonight so I can shoot them. They did what they thought was best in the heat of the moment and like I said previously, they’ve got my support. Furthermore, how would police have known he was 14? He was driving a vehicle and looks older than 14- one would assume someone driving a vehicle is at least 17/18. Split second decisions, they wouldn’t have had a clue of his age. Just that he was endangering many people.
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Shot in the neck doesn’t necessarily mean incapacitated. The little we know now is the same as the little the police knew when they pulled him from the car. What if he was armed? A neck wound would not necessarily prevent him from using it. Unconsciousness would. I think in these circumstances the health and safety of the police, who wouldn’t be there but for their job, is paramount. And if tht police officer did not feel safe when he pulled him from that car he is entitled to use the force required to feel safe.
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So over mathew newton…. How long are they going to blame his moronic behavior on mental illness? He’s just a spoilt teenager in a mans body who is bitter that he never really made it in the celebrity world.
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I believe that the police would have shot anyone driving a car like that, aboriginal or not and regardless of their age. They were driving a car on the footpath, just because it wasn’t speeding doesn’t make it any less dangerous. It would have been a much bigger tragedy if they had run someone over instead because the police had done nothing, surely.
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I agree with you. The car needed to be stopped. Though I think most of the uproar is at how the youths – already shot – were treated when dragged from the car. It’s just a small part caught on film, but it doesn’t look good…
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Not loving the looks of there first aid in the picture either…. Even someone with basic first aid should know better than what’s happening in that photo …the mind boggles
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Not only that, but the NSW police have been involved in quite a few incidents in the past few months where they have used what is percieved to be excessive force. The uproar atm is not solely because of this incident. One incident that comes to mind is their use of a taser on a mentally disturbed man a few months ago… To me, dragging the shot youths from the car and proceeding to assault them is disgusting.
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There’s no uproar in my circle. We applaud the bravery and competence of the police in stopping the ‘youths’ from completely running over the woman they had pinned beneath the car.
Did the policeman know that the criminal had been shot? Did he know that he was unarmed?
For gawds sake STOP making this the fault of the police. I don’t know how your minds work.
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Hmmm, thinking Barbie girl should have chosen a top without buttons. Hazard ahead!
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