Journalists are suddenly as vilified as politicians. This is not an entirely surprising position for us to be in (yes, I do consider myself a journalist, it’s what I write in the ‘occupation’ bit of forms so it must be true) because traditionally, journalists have not topped the list of most-trusted professions.
But this is different. Since the News Of The World (NOTW) hacking scandal has intensified and recieved global coverage these past few weeks, journalists in Australia are being accused – explicitly and implicitly- of some heinous things. Crimes, in fact.
I do not work for News Ltd. In fact I currently work for one of his competitors – Fairfax publish my newspaper column and I used to work for another of his competitors, ACP Magazines.
So I am not writing this post to apologise for Rupert or News Corp and certainly not for the actions of anyone at NOTW. Hacking into the phones of any person – famous, civilian, dead or alive – is appalling and inexcusable. That’s why Britain is having all manner of police and parliamentary enquiries into this scandal. And so they bloody well should.
However. There are a couple of important points that are being lost as some opportunists seek to draw a line between journalism in the UK and Australia as if we were talking about the same climate, the same media culture. We’re not.

Page 3 of a UK paper
When it was announced that News International were closing NOTW a couple of weeks ago and British media and politicians exploded with references to the “disgust of the British people”, someone on Twitter remarked sarcastically that they thought the British people would express their disgust by buying every single copy of the last edition of NOTW.
How right they were. That is exactly what happened.
So what’s my point? The British newspaper industry (not just those owned by News Corp) is different to the Australian newspaper industry because British readers are different. Very. For so many tabloid publications (over 50 newspapers and tabloid mags) to thrive the way they do, you need a lot of readers who want that kind of tawdry, gossipy, exploitative, low-rent “news”.
In Australia, I don’t think there is the appetite for it. In fact, there isn’t. Or else we would have the same kind of tabloid culture here. Supply and demand.
Consider this: many of the tabloids including The Sun, STILL have a topless or semi-naked page 3 girl. Imagine an Australian newspaper trying that. That’s just one indication that the UK newspaper audience is very very different to the Australian one, with different demands and expectations. My point is this: if there is no demand for a product, it doesn’t exist. If public attitudes and mores don’t embrace a certain type of content, it won’t be produced.
So along with the tabloids and media proprietors, the ‘disgusted’ British public, should ask itself some questions. Could their voracious appetite for scandal, sleaze and intimate private details about the lives of public figures have contributed to the disgusting behaviour of certain journalists? Not excused it – there is no excuse for hacking someone’s phone – but contributed to it.
I have never worked on staff at a newspaper but I have many friends who are current and former editors, section editors, writers, cadets…..I am close to people who have worked at every levels of newspapers – tabloids and broadsheets in several different cities over decades. Never have I ever heard even a whisper about hacking phones.
Perhaps it has gone on. It’s impossible to generalise or vouch for the ethics of every journalist in Australia, it would be like making a generalisation about ‘waiters’ or ‘electricians’. There are unscrupulous operators in every profession. But the implication being made by some that illegal practices such as phone hacking is some kind of widespread, enshrined journalistic practice at News Ltd or any other media organisation?
Bollocks.
So. Condemn the practices of those journalists and executives who commissioned, sanctioned or stayed silent about phone hacking and other alleged corruption. Every journalist I know – including those at News Ltd – will condemn them right along with you.
But don’t tar all journalists with the same brush.







Comments
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I’m a media analyst, working in London, with all the major players in this drama as my clients.
I haven’t had more than 3 hours sleep for three weeks (except for my trip to Paris on the weekend which I insisted on taking). I haven’t seen daylight this week.
I have read/ listened to/ watched more on this issue than any person would consider reasonable. There’s some excellent reporting going on right now, so credit to those journos. Unfortunately, there’s also some pretty sketchy stuff happening (on both sides of the argument).
We think a lot has gone down in the last few weeks but the truth is this is only the beginning. There’s a whole lot more where this came from.
Can I just say that I am SO. SICK. OF. RUPERT. MURDOCH.
Whinge over – I’m going back to my cave built from hacking scandal press clippings…
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“My point is this: if there is no demand for a product, it doesn’t exist. If public attitudes and mores don’t embrace a certain type of content, it won’t be produced.”
This is a little disingenuous. Nothing is that black-and-white. The media create “demand” for deeply ingrained cultural reasons, or to please advertisers, or to cater to a vocal minority. A lot of the problematic issues in our culture cited on this website (body image, sexualisation of girls, etc) would fall into this category. Who is demanding to see very thin models? It isn’t audiences.
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Here, here. I havent read all the comments, but from what I have seen, this is the most astute. I hate the whole ‘we ask for it’ line, as if corporates and conglomerates etc are just merely abiding our little wishes…..pah!
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I suddenly feel like I’m back in my journalism undergrad degree…Fear not, eager news addicts! The end is not nigh. There are tonnes of decent journalists out there, and a lot of them are teaching the next generation of would-be content makers (I say would-be because everyone is a producer now, right?). I had it drilled into me from day one at j-school TO ATTRIBUTE EVERYONE. EVERYTHING. ALL THE TIME. WHO SAID THAT. WHEN. WHERE. IN WHAT YEAR IS THIS STATISTIC FROM AND DO YOU HAVE A COUNTER ARGUMENT. Shit drove me insane, but it sure as hell whipped me into gear and kicked the laziness out of me.
I feel that although there’s not as much scandal amongst Aussie journos as there is in the UK, one needs only to tune into Today Tonight or see the readership figures for rags like Famous and OK to see how valued they are.
Also, did anyone watch QandA the other night? Jacqueline Grey made a super insightful point that the public should also be held accountable, as we are after all creating the demand for these products by consuming them.
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i was thinking this post would link to last nights media watch. so f*cking depressing that amount of bullsh*t that is spread.
those shock jocks have a lot to answer for, as do their management who defend them so wholeheartedly. if you are at all interested in australian media i would recommend watching it.
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Sickening, just sickening. The level of vitriol is frightening, and even more frightening is how it rubs off onto their listeners. Footage of the signs at the anti-carbon rally – that pack/mob mentality – you’d think the PM was sanctioning the murder of babies.
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I worked for a newspaper and randomly one of the Editorial Assistants that I knew quit suddenly. The reason she had left was because her boyfriend had been caught dealing drugs and had been sentenced to jail. The newspapers photographers has been able to get a few shoots of him as he left court but they realized there was a photo of him on her desk and the Chief of Staff (aka Top Dog who is now the editor) took the photo out of the frame and printed it in the newspaper for the story on his sentencing that ran the next day. While I’m not saying all journalists are doing illegal things to get stories pretending journalist and editors don’t do dodgy and totally under handed things is a bit delusional.
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my very successful husband always puts “Clerk”
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Just asking out of curiosity, not to challenge Mia’s job description or credentials in any way (honestly), but I was just wondering why you choose journalist as your job description instead of writer? (Did you use ‘editor’ when you were at Cosmo?). I think you should use entrepreneur, but that’s just my opinion
My Dad likes to use fancy sounding job descriptions, on my birth certificate I think his occupation is listed as Company Director & Grazier, because he ran a small business with my Mum and it was structured as a company (he and mum were the only directors) and he also had a hobby farm with a few head of cattle… I guess he could have put farmer, but that’s not my Dad!
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Good question! I was being a bit facetious. I actually put publisher on forms more often now. I could also put writer. Columnist. Author. Mother.
Maybe I should put ‘slashie’. And actually, who cares what you write on a form!
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Sorry, that question was from me (http://twitter.com/#!/PrincesseEmma), I can’t work out how to log in with my Twitter account like I used to and forgot to put my name in :-/
Thanks for taking the time to answer.
Slashie is a great idea! I was just wondering why journalist as opposed to writer…
And who cares what you write on a form? Someone like my Dad, obviously! Haha. Though I did think it was really sexist that my father’s occupation was listed on my birth certificate but not my mother’s… (Not sure if that has changed?).
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I had to put my occupation on missy’s birth cert application as well as her father’s. The certificate shows both and doesn’t assume marriage or maiden names.
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As a working journalist I find it insulting that Mia Freedman calls herself a journalist when she is prepared to put her name to sponsored posts and continue featuring them on her website.
For example, her chirpy little piece on “how I love Nutella” turned out to be paid for by ….. the sandwich spread maker. Then there was the “why Ikea is so cool” and “why I can’t get by without this dodgy health product” and “why this brand of alcohol will make your dinner party fabulous” and “why my new year’s resolution is to eat more special k” etc etc etc
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: no self-respecting journalist would ever take payment to write a story from a company that’s trying to flog a product, whether they really liked the product of not. This is journalism 101.
If Mia truly doesn’t get what is so fundamentally wrong with sponsored posts it just highlights the fact that she doesn’t grasp the most fundamental basics of ethical journalism.
So thanks for defending us, Mia, but call yourself a former women’s magazine beauty editor, a commentator or an online entrepreneur. Just please don’t call yourself a journalist.
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Oh, please! Have you never heard of journalists writing advertorials? Most of the ones I know have had to at some point in their careers. Your envy is palpable and quite off-putting. Green is not a pretty colour. A journalist is someone who communicates and reports.
This website is free because Mia can do sponsored posts and I am glad she does, because it beats a pay wall any day of the week. Honestly … is that so hard to grasp?
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Hi Kimmi27
If journalists are writing advertorials, they shouldn’t be. Cut and dry.
And if people like you think it’s not only commonplace but somehow acceptable for journos to write advertising material it’s a sad reflection of how warped public attitudes towards the role of journalists in a society are.
And once again, I have no issue with this website funding itself through ads. What I DO have an issue with is ads masquerading as articles. Or people who are prepared to put their names to sponsored posts calling themselves “journalists”.
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Can I step in and point out that sponsored posts here are clearly marked. They’re not masquerading as anything.
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Rick, I know they are marked as sponsored. But my point is it doesn’t matter.
They appear in the form of a regluar post and they usually take the form of crafty little stories like, “ooh, how do you clean your silverware? I use bicarb of soda. Or you could use this cleaning product which by the way has paid for my words.”
You and Mia know as well as me that they are supposed to look and read like regular posts. Which of course is their appeal and selling point to advertisers.
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Ever seen the words ‘advertising feature’ written in a newspaper? Yeah, me too. In pretty much all of them. Give our readers a little more credit than that, they know what sponsored posts are and involve. We wrote a whole post on it. If you don’t like them, that’s fine, your newspaper I’m sure will survive without them…
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Actually, they’re not just like regular articles. They’re perkier.
I’ve written hard news, I’ve written advertorials as a journalist. When I was an editor, I had journos write hard news, and I’ve had them write advertorials, too.
I was required to write them as part of my training with old-school journos. It helped me be a more rounded writer, it helped me understand my audience better. It also helped me in getting news stories because of the relationships I made with advertisers and the bond of trust I formed with them.
Journalism is about capturing what is happening today and recording it. The products that are available to us today are an important part of that. In the same way that we look back on old ads and wonder at them, someone in the future will be looking back on the products we have today as history. It is important to record this, even if you think it’s beneath you.
It’s a pity that some journos look down on advertorials and the JOURNALISTS who write said advertorials. Those things are what’s paying for your bread and butter these days, not your story which can be found for free in many other sources.
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So many people call themselves a journalist because they think it gves them some cred. Now these journalists, that aren’t really journalists, are arking up because the profession is being held in lower regard than usual.
The problem is that anyone with a computer, or a pen, can call themselves a journalist. This does not happen in other professions. You cannot call yourself a doctor unless you actually are one.
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No, Kitty
People who started as copy boys and girls or editorial assistants; who completed cadetships and were blooded in courts, crime rounds and politics before acquiring the skills to root out a story, source it and tell it to the public can call themselves journos.
Not “anyone with a pen” at all.
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Er, yes, they are the people that should call themselves a journo. My point is that many people who have not done this still say they are a journalist.
I thought it was pretty obvious that I was supporting your comment.
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My apologies. I misinterpreted
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oops so you’re clearly not the brilliant journalist you thought you were. Maybe you need to spend more time in crime rounds to pick up on clues….
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No worries ; )
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Mattie,
I’m not going to get into a debate with you about what I do or don’t call myself. That’s semantics and not the point of this post. Fine, you have a problem with me calling myself a journalist? Let’s call me a Jedi Knight.
My opinion on this subject remains the same.
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Ok Jedi. Sorry I attacked you personally.
Really, I think you do a great job.
I just can’t abide by sponsored posts. I will shut up now.
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May the force be with you Mattie.
Actually, screw the Jedi. I’m going to call myself Yoda.
Love him, I do.
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Mattie, do you also have a problem with posts like the Horn of Africa one? It has info and then links to donate. Same idea as you rail against in the sponsored posts…
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“My point is this: if there is no demand for a product, it doesn’t exist. If public attitudes and mores don’t embrace a certain type of content, it won’t be produced.”
That’s very simplistic. So it’s the readers fault? It’s all demand-side? This is a chicken-egg situation for me. Which came first? The newspapers feeding people garbage and creating the appetite or people’s demand for it? Producers do not always merely respond to demand, they are often quite skilled at creating it.
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Someone may have mentioned this already, but… The argument that the final issue of NOTW was sold out indicates the ‘level of disgust’ of the British people is completely flawed. Imagine the final edition of ANY famous newspaper or magazine, particularly one which is going out under such infamous circumstances. Everyone would want a copy of that – a lot of people would collect it, in the same way people keep coronation or royal wedding issues.
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I agree. My friend asked his sister to buy him a copy, as she’s in the UK, as he wanted it as a mark in time, a historical moment and an interesting talking point (and he’s disgusted in NoTW, like all of us).
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I was listening to a British radio presenter interviewed on ABC radio today and he said that funnily enough, you can’t find anyone in the UK who EVER read NOTW! Nobody will admit having bought it or read it now, despite the fact that 6 million people read it every week before it closed.
I’m just saying if a product does not have a market, it doesn’t exist. There is a reason that kind of journalism doesn’t exist in Australia – we don’t want it.
That is an important point of difference in the markets….
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I think it would be interesting if you explored that topic a bit more…why is it that the Poms prefer that ‘kind of journalism’ ? I’d be interested to hear from any Brits who can expand on that.
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Baffled, Mia. ‘That kind of journalism’ does actually exist in Australia, it is flippant to assume all journalism in this country is only of the highbrow, intelligent and morally adept variety. Tabloid journalism does exist here, the difference is that it is just printed on a glossier kind of paper and given weekly magazine status. Australians buy the weekly glossies, thus creating the market for the product. Can someone explain how these glossies are not tabloids in disguise?
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this.
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Pffft!
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years.”
He went on to explain:
“It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries.”
– David Rockefeller, Speaking at the June, 1991 Bilderberger meeting in Baden, Germany (a meeting also attended by then-Governor Bill Clinton and by Dan Quayle
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I have been following the saga with interest, more so because I saw how destructive can be for one man to own news and fed it to the country ( Berlusconi, Italy), I disagree with you Mia, it all come down to numbers, UK has 60/70 millions people Australia only twenty and not all the twenty millions buy magazine and newspapers, as somebody said very well below, the public have enough to be fed rubbish, and Murdock empire like all empires is start to crack, they all expand and then collapse do to corruption, and others ( look at the Roman, empire) unless the expansion is for the good of all, something for you to ponder too,
LTA ooxx
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Getting a little bit concerned at the poor spelling and grammar in posts on this topic by people calling themselves journalists. Sorry but it really hinders the flow of what is trying to be said when I have to stumble over several spelling errors while reading such posts. Sorry to be picky, but it is a profession built on words and how to use them to convey an accurate message to others is it not? How hard can it be to know the difference between ‘its’ and ‘it’s’ for example? Rant over, sorry all!!
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‘recieved’ had me thinking about spelling instead of reading the article…
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Much agreed – sub editor required, if nothing else. Several items should have been corrected or punctuated properly. Also, I don’t believe “Very.” is a sentence.
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Absolutely. There is never an excuse for poor spelling, especially if you rely on and choose to make the use of words your profession. Check it over three times before hitting ‘send’. Don’t patronise or irritate intelligent readers with simple errors in your writing! But of course you can always blame your iPad/iPhone autocorrect. Or the weather. Sigh. Another rant over, I obviously need some lunch!
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I’m a working journalist and I’ve been a bit surprised at how far-reaching the damage NotW scandal has spread. It’s really unearthed vitriolic and hateful attitudes towards the press, the majority of whom have no connection to this story or News Corporation.
Journalists have never been among the most highly trusted of professionals. In certain cases, that reputation is deserved.
It’s true there’s no binding code of conduct, but if, as suggested, a review into the media industry is needed, how will it work?
How can government be trusted to regulate the media, when it’s so crucial journalism is able to act as the Fourth Estate, holding governments to account?
I do believe media ownership in Australia is too concentrated and that is an issue which needs to be addressed. More diversity means more competition which would give the public the chance to vote with their feet and refuse to support publications they find unsavory. But how would you go about breaking up the media empires? When newspapers in particular are struggling to survive, would they simply cease to exist if new owners could not be found?
I think when we talk about media regulation, I’d like to see more protection for journalists who would choose to do their jobs ethically. At university, we were told the only answer to the question of “When would you drop a story?” was “Never.”
Journalists are pressured into things like death knocks and tabloid beat-ups by the organisations they work for, and there is no protection for those who refuse to follow those marching orders.
Protecting journalists’ rights to act ethically would be a great step towards improving the landscape of the Australian media. But could it really be done?
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The best thing about this whole appalling situation is that it’s provoking this kind of discussion and encouraging people to analyse and look deeper into the media and how it operates.
I’m a journalist too (there seems to be a lot of us on here!) and I have to say I’ve never seen the kind of low-rent tabloid journalism or the mentality it engenders among my fellow employees. But then, I’ve always worked in regional news, and that operates very differently to major metro organisation. In smaller communities, trust, ethics and good relationships with your contacts are essential if you want to fill pages or avoid putting black to air. We would often curse whenever the bigger organisations came to town – they wouldn’t necessarily do anything unethical, but their methods of operation would often damage the trust we so carefully established.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is that an ethical person will do what is ethical, whatever industry they work in. And unethical people… well, that’s where scrutiny isn’t such a bad thing!
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Personally I blame the poor standard of politians in this country on Journalists. I think we pick polititians based on the way they play the press, rathern than their value or expertise. We’d rather have someone good with a one liner, repeating the same spin, or being pictured having a drink with the “working families” , rather than how good a leader they are, or how good their strategies are for the future. The press jumps all over something small and takes it out of context and twists it to create a headline, rather than seeing the big picture as it doesn’t sell as well. I think depending on which paper or web site you visit a story is slanted in a certain way, Ive often seen the same story on seperate sites and had two very different feelings after reading each piece.
So yeah, I dont think too highly of journalists.
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I write journalist on forms so that’s what I must be……
My husband writes Jedi Knight, doesn’t make it true though.
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You understand humour, right? Heard of self-deprecation? Having a laff?
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But Anonymous, how do you KNOW it’s not true? He might really be a Jedi Knight.
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yes but I have a very distinct memory of revelations that one New Ltd journalist once threatened a guy who refused to be interviewed by her, that the paper would stalk him, get his photo and put the most unflattering one possible on the front page. And a former colleague of mine received the same treatment; after something humiliating at her workplace (not her fault) she had an extraordinarily unflattering photograph of her published on the cover of the same newspaper. Australian journalists don’t stoop to the same level but there are pockets of them that aren’t exactly tarnish free. I’ve been a journalist for more than 10 years and I never saw anything like this in Australia (although my organisations operated very differently) and my colleagues certainly never acted that way. But all the way through the entire media is this kind of poisonous bravado, that you have to be prepared to do what it takes to get there.
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It is worth noting that all this only came to light because of the actions of journalists at The Guardian and The New York Times.It was not from government action.
We need to resits calls for more government control of the media as advocated by the likes of Bob Brown. A docile media suits politicians who ,evidently, get into bed with dishonest journalists but fear honest ones.
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Thank you, Mia. Well said.
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I don’t think that the public is taring all journalists with the same brush, but to think that NotW-esque bottom-feeding journalism doesn’t exist here would be naive.
I’m not saying that we have phone tapping issues specifically (although we could?) but I’ve heard of journalists doing ‘death knocks’, going through bins of celebrities/politicians, personal crusades against the government (think of The Australian magazine’s issue with the carbon tax and NBN…so much for balanced reporting!) and tabloid sensationalism at the expense of real reporting.
I think the media has too much influence and can get away with blatant bias, and I agree with the Greens that there should be an inquiry into the ethical implications, before we do turn into the UK.
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I understand your point about the low grade tabloids in the UK, however I do think Australian media does rely on UK media to garner the top stories first, and then they will play it safe and pull from these stories once published, to write their own, or will often just include a full quoted column from UK Guardian or Times newspaper to fill space in one of the Australian papers. Correct me if I’m wrong but I have never seen a quality UK broadsheet such as the Times or Guardian go out of their way to use something in their paper which has been written by an Australian journalist. Similarly, I often feel that many free to air Australian news channels skim through or omit vital news of the day, so I never really feel as though I am getting a full world report over here from those channels. I rely on SBS news or online news for fuller more intelligent coverage than say Channel 9, 10 or 7 can provide. In my view, it is these channels which instead provide the tabloid journalism which does not appear in newspaper format in Australia, so perhaps tabloid thinking does still exist in the media here, just in a different format?
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Well said RE: a full World report. Heck, I’m from WA and as much as I enjoy my AFL, I scratch my head when sport takes up approx. 50% of the bulletin. I stick with BBC on ABC24, online news (Reuters, BBC) and Rick’s daily news supply. I enjoy the 7PM Project as they have people of all persuasions on there and as it is a panel type of show, I expect opinion with my news. What I don’t expect is spin masquerading as so-called news from actual news broadcasts hence my switching off ch7, 9 and 10 when their bulletins go to air. Ahhh, the power of the remote control. I’m about to out myself though…The first thing I do when I wake up is check my Twitter feed on my phone for news updates. There are so many World stories that don’t even make it to our shores so here’s one lass from the *MTV Generation who is grateful for Twitter!
*In denial about being borderline Gen Y.
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I work in the communications industry. One of my tertiary qualifications is in journalism, however I undertook this post grad training only to add to my professional development and enhance my own skills and knowledge. I did not want to work as a journalist. However, I work with journalists every day as part of my current job. Some are good, some are bad. Some are good operators, some are not particularly bright (which funnily enough often makes my job easier).
Many people that call themselves a “journalist” actually have no qualifications in journalism. In fact, many do not even have a basic communications degree or any other form of tertiary qualification. Basically, anyone can say that they are a journalist and this surely undermines the “profession”. This is becoming more prevalent in today’s society and we have many citizen journos too. This is a different issue though.
There are actually plenty of unqualified people working in communications/PR/marketing/media roles and it is very annoying as many of these people lack sophistication, strategic thinking, understanding of ethics/legalities, etc and could benefit from some real training and education. Whilst I agree that qualifications are not the only thing that matter (and many people just do the bare minimum to pass them and can’t actually apply their learning’s effectively), I would like to see journalists have to undertake more training, rather than it being a profession that anyone can do with no questions asked.
Plenty of people get into journalism for the wrong reasons – they just want to boost their own public profiles in their own cities/towns. They think it is all glamour and they might one day see themselves as a TV presenter of some sort. It is a very complex issue and I could go on and on about this…
I basically think that the industry lacks regulation and standards and the very good journalists, of which there are many, are undone by all the people that really don’t deserve to call themselves journalists.
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I think it’s a very good thing no one has to pass a test or complete a degree to write for a newspaper, TV or radio, a website etc. Who would control such regulations if they existed? Who would select the candidates and set the standards? The government? People are free to make up their own minds which journalists they choose to read, follow or listen to.
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I am not saying that qualifications are essential (though I think they are gererally desirable in cases), of course that would never be able to be enforced. Standards and regulations on the other hand should be enforced, and yes maybe by Government. Other professions such as medicine and law have independent bodies that hold them to account in matters pertaining to ethics and the law.
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Interesting observation. Some of the best journos I’ve ever worked with have no, what you call, formal qualifications. I’ve workd in media for over 20 years and have no univeristy degree, but I was taught by a great person who showed me the ropes so to speak.
I’ve also worked with some absolute “shockers” who should never be let near a keyboard. They can’t write and they certainly find it difficult to sort the facts from the opinion and spin.
I had a discussion with a young work experience student who came to spend a week with me recently. She was telling me how important a degree in journalism was. I told her that having a degree doesn’t necessarily make you a great journalist and not having a degree certainly doesn’t make you a bad one. You can have all the education you like, but if you don’t care about the people you’re writing about or the stories you’re doing, then all the ethical training won’t mean one damn thing.
Unfortunately nowadays, I believe organisations like the ABC and newspapers require their cadets to have a uni degree. I’m not sure that’s the best way to go, but that’s just the way it is now.
Oh, and I certainly don’t come to this site for “news” and I’ve never considered Mia a journalist, more a commentator I guess, but that’s just me.
As for the tabloid culture here, well for a start we don’t have the population to keep a lot of tabloids in business, but you only have to check out the magazine racks at the supermarkets or service stations and to watch morning television to see where our desire for gossip is. The bulk of it may not be in the newspapers but it’s certainly in the glossies and on the TV, although I notice the weekend papers are devoting a fair bit of column space to gossip these days.
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People without formal training/qualifications are always threatened by those that have them. Those that have them don’t think anything of it. Mia is calling herself a journalist and I don’t know why you’re bringing that up anyway. I note on this site that Mia cops a lot of flack, and this usually incites comments in her support that quite frankly sound like sucking up to her. Honestly, as if she would care either way. This site is full of sycophants.
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Qualifications aside, my point is that anyone can call themselves a journalist/commentator/whatever. The shock jocks call themselves “entertainers”. The media in its numerous forms has a massive amount of power and influence and the consequences of this can be devastating when things get out of control as we have seen.
I am saying more scrutiny and regulation is required, and I think that is actually going to happen to some extent now after the NOTW scandal. In Australia the Media Watch program is about the most powerful tool we have to keep the media in line and I don’t think that is adequate.
I don’t come to this site for news either. Not sure what you meant by that remark. But I obviously don’t care if the “journalists” on this site are properly qualified. However, I do expect higher standards from the mainstream media outlets such as the ones responsible for critical public safety information and hard news.
I don’t think the ABC do have any hard and fast rules about qualifications. I work with the ABC at a State and National level daily and I’m pretty sure they have a diverse mix of people from a range of backgrounds. I’ll say this though, they have high standards and the journalists that I know and work with from the ABC are credible, sensible and ethical from my experience.
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“Condemn the practices of those journalists and executives who commissioned, sanctioned or stayed silent about phone hacking and other alleged corruption. Every journalist I know – including those at News Ltd – will condemn them right along with you”
Maybe every News Ltd journalist *you* know – but maybe not *every* New Ltd journalist.
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There are always grammatical errors on this site, by people that claim to be “journalists”. I wish they’d hire a sub-editor or just do some basic proofing.
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I wasn’t making a grammatical point. It’s more that Mia’s friends at News Ltd might well be “on the side of the good”, but there are others in that organisation who are less so.
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I get all my Australian news from ABC on line and my American news from Stephen Colbert and John Stewart. I read the Weekend papers (Australian and Age) and Who and Vanity Fair are my guilty pleasures. As consumers of media we have to think, what is this article really trying to tell me? I am looking forward to the new Gruen programme about spin that is supposed to be starting soon. (Before it starts, Yes i know Stewart and Colbert are satire, and bloody good satire).
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We so need an Australian Jon Stewart! Please!
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I don’t think we could have an Australian equivalent, no one could do Jon Stewart like Jon Stewart.
Ahhh, he’s brilliant
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The thinking woman’s sex symbol
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Yeah, I know what you mean…I’ve tried to think of an Aussie who could fill the role, and no one comes to mind…
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Maybe Tony Martin?
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Good start…not quite as charming as Stewart…I think we can do better…
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I like Shaun Micallef, but he is probably too absurdist. Charlie Pickering off the 7pm Project, seems to want to be Australia’s answer to Jon Stewart but there’s something about him I don’t like… too smug, I think. Have you seen the UK’s ’10 O’Clock Live’, inspired by the Daily Show? It’s not as good as the original, but Charlie Brooker and David Mitchell are brilliant.
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Does Rupert Murdoch remind anyone else of Mr Burns from the simpsons?
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Not really…I like Mr Burns…
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If so then Rupert must not be as thin skinned as his critics suggest given his company owns the network that makes The Simpsons
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Yes!!
Someone tweeted today that they reckon the police will find a tattoo on Rebekah Brooks that says “Die Bart Die!” – I nearly spat coffee all over my keyboard
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I stopped buying newspapers, magazines, watching commercial tv so long ago I really don’t remember much about them. I haven’t missed out on keeping up with the world by finding information online when I need it.
I love to watch Media Watch on the ABC. There are codes of conduct that the media is supposed to abide by but, if you watch Media Watch, they are regularly flouted by most media sources with no comeback by the industry itself. As I understand it, the federal government has been investigating ways to tackle this for some time now. They have given the industry the opportunity to self-regulate (or the government has just not acted yet) but this has not happened. Will be interesting to see what happens now.
If you want more about ACMA which sets out the code of conduct and other stuff about the media, google Media Watch.
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Media Watch is essential viewing.
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“Everyone loves Media Watch until they’re on it”
I never miss it, Jonathan Holmes is the shiz.
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I agree about both Media watch and Jonathon Holmes.
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I think media is a business like any other. It exists predominantly to sell itself. It sensationalizes and exaggerates to get people to click on a story or buy a paper. It lets us know what’s going on in the world, and in some cases exposes the truth, but for the most part is 40% fact 60% slant and making up a story to twist around facts. People are stupid, too lazy or unable to actually seek out the facts for themselves so they believe the story they are sold, and form an opinion based on that. It’s just as much the readers fault for lapping it up without thinking about the source of their information, as it is the media who are responsible for it. Obviously journalists aren’t evil people out to deceive the world, but I seriously doubt there are many people in the industry who truly write unbiased, fact based stories that have no motive or twist telling people what to think about those facts.
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No, I completely disagree. As a former journalist myself with many high profile journalists I call friends, I think the Australian media needs great scrutiny to weed out the many, many people who sully the profession. Fact checking, in depth research, respecting your sources, the medium and the public are things of the past for most current journalists and they need to be pulled up on it.
As a journo who has been verbally abused on more than one occasion while trying to ethically pursue a story, I did not blame the person talking – I blamed each and every Australian journalist who acted in an unscrupulous manner leading to this disparaged public opinion.
As for saying we’re not as bad as the UK, I recall it was an Australian ‘journalist’ who chose to reveal the whereabouts of Prince Harry whilst on military tour – endangering the lives of countless soldiers.
I welcome transparency. People have been fed trash for so long that they no longer realise the difference between journalism, opinion and tabloid current affairs. Hopefully this ‘scandal’ is the start of a worldwide clean up of a sadly deteriorating industry.
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Actually the ‘journalist’ who chose to reveal the whereabouts of Prince Harry whilst on military tour was not Australian and was indeed British. Not long after that she departed the magazine in question and is now working back in the UK. A very good example of precisely the point Mia’s article is making
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But it WAS an AUSTRALIAN publication with an AUSTRALIAN audience.
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Funnily enough I didn’t hear Bob Brown mention the likes of New Idea or Woman’s Day when he called for a media inquiry, even though it is pretty clear they are the most prominent examples of UK-style journalism in this country.
And why is that? Because there’s no political mileage in attacking the gossip magazines. That’s why the focus is all on News Ltd and newspapers. It’s a politically motivated witchhunt, plain and simple.
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Politically motivated witch hunt? Really? Do you mean here in Australia?
Because in the UK they hacked a murder girl’s mobile phone and deleted messages (amongst other things)!
The standard of journalism has definitely taken a beating recently. I have had journalists threaten to write a made-up, wrong and damaging story if I don’t release the information that they want – surely that goes against journalistic standards (dare I say ‘ethics’ cough cough). And every newspaper article I’ve ever read that I know the background to, is riddled with inconsistencies and false info which is warped to suit the journo or editor’s view on something.
So please let’s not falsely protest about this situation.
I agree that people have jumped on the bandwagon now but can’t say I have much sympathy.
As for Bob Brown, if you see a head in politics, you kick it – he’s certainly had his fair share of unflattering/conflated/incorrect articles written about him – now it might be his time to ensure that others don’t suffer the same fate.
And if everyone is squeaky clean then you have nothing to worry about an inquiry – what’s the saying about a clear sky not fearing thunder??
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Absolutely I believe it is a witch hunt. Precisely because, as you yourself say, people now want to punish Australian journos due to events that took place in the UK. And without a shred of proof. How is that fair?
You only need to read some of the naive comments on this thread to see how popular it is to stereotype anyone working in the media.
News Ltd has already said they would co-operate with an inquiry so to the disappointment of the witch hunters I don’t think there’s any fear of what dark sinister practices will be unearthed. It’s just most in the know seem to agree that an inquiry in Australia is unwarranted and could be used to silence the media from investigating serious issues. I don’t see that just because Bob Brown has endured some hostile media coverage in his time should justify him calling the ethics of an entire industry into question.
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Sally, I think that where a company has shown itself to be open to dubious (well more accurately amoral / illegal) practices to get stories such as NOTW and Fox News in the US, then ‘yes’ a broader inquiry in Australia is warranted to ensure that it isn’t happening here.
You may remember that New Idea regularly makes up stories and publishes photos taken without the subject’s knowledge (ie Therese Rein at the gym) – I believe that is worthy of an inquiry in itself.
We are not talking about stopping the media from covering serious stories here – no politician in Australia would get away with muzzling the media – we are talking about the media using illegal methods to publish crap that is sensationalist or worse, incorrect/madeup/false to suit the political views of their owners.
Did you know that a number of ex-News Ltd journos/employees are now running for the Republican Party in the US elections – what do you think that will do to the bias of that media organisation in the US elections – how is that fair reporting?
Have you ever watched the filth that Glenn Beck regurgitates all the time – sanctioned and promoted by his big boss Rupert Murdoch.
And for the record, the journo that used to threaten the organisation I work for, regularly, was a News Ltd journo working in Australia… so if the highest levels of an organisation are amoral what do we expect of a corporate culture?
Bring on an inquiry I say!!
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Sally – it was written for and printed in an Australian magazine and the journalist indeed was working as an Australian journalist in her professional capacity. The country of her birth makes no difference.
The point is that journalism like this goes on here in Australia and many people are involved. Notions such as yours, that UK Journalists = bad and Australian journalists = good, are naive at best and very dangerous in their worst form.
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I’m a News Ltd journalist. The NOTW scandal and it’s handling, although shocking, has not surprised me on a theoretical level. The reason? Because News Ltd, from it’s most lowly cadet to highest executives, instills in it’s staff a belief that we MUST get the story at virtually any cost. There is an arrogance and sense of entitlement when it comes to questions of ethics. Mia, I liked your post, but I disagree with your sentiment. News Ltd everywhere, here and OS, fosters the same culture of arrogance. I strongly suggest reading “man bites Murdoch” for a great insight into the company.
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I think you mean ‘its’ handling and ‘its’ staff.
Are you really a journalist?
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What do you think the copy-editor is for?
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I’m going to handball the blame for those typos to good old iPhone autocorrect! But to answer your question, yes I am really a journalist.
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yes because journos never make spelling mistakes – do you follow any on twitter??
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I’m an ex-News Limited employee and I totally agree with you Journo…the company has built itself on arrogance and entitlement
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Building a company on arrogance and entitlement would certainly reduce the ethical construct globally. Absolutely.
I’m going out on a limb here and saying that when ethics, integrity and values are reduced for the sake of ‘the story’ ie. for the sake of the ‘sale’ of the daily news to keep that publication running, and when the lowest common denominator becomes about selling – sometimes making a return on the investment (regardless of whether the ‘return’ is financial given how un-viable newspapers may now be) – then MORALLY, Mr Murdoch’s empire, has not only committed crimes in one part of the world, but also BENEFITED from the ‘proceeds’ of those crimes.The sale of these newspapers which print unconscionably ‘researched’ stories for the sake of selling something, anything, affects each and every component of Murdoch’s empire, be it newspaper, tv, movie. Murdoch’s empire is global. His reputation’s also global. This is a little bit like the AWB scandal. Everybody wants a piece of ‘the pie’ until they get caught out doing corrupt and illegal business practices funding a corrupt and despotic dictator, to whom we’re defending our ‘right to democracy’ against. This issue is not just about the minutiae of trashy tabloid press interacting with police force corruption and political clout somewhere ‘over there’ on the other side of the world. It’s about ethics Ethics ETHICS. Plenty in Murdoch’s empire ‘benefit’ from his ‘invisible [guiding] hand’ of arrogance and entitlement everywhere. They’re complicit in the corporate culture. What I often wonder about is how much of ‘the truth’ gets manipulated here by non-reporting (silence) because it’s the Murdoch’s… Look at Melbourne Storm last year. Everywhere favouritism is rampant… Nepotism is rampant… Egoism is rampant. The cultural mold here is only degrees away from that which goes on in the UK.
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So eloquently argued. I 100 per cent agree. What you say is true; Murdoch’s influence filters right down to the bottom and influences every editorial decision made.
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thanks Journo – as some of us will continue to argue, nothing’s ever black or white in the ‘real’ world when bias, prejudice, silence, and even supposed ‘common sense’, consistently fail to address the many shades-of-grey. Here’s an academia link which may also be of interest to you:
http://inside.org.au/is-this-news-limited%E2%80%99s-defence/
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I actually think that our appetite for gossip and scandal is just as voracious than those in the UK. If this was not the case New Idea and Womans Day would be defunct. I think gossip has a place in everyday life, people choose if they want to engage in and read the stuff. I don’t read gossip mags anymore, I do love when a big story breaks and the truth is revealed.
Journo’s can get a bad rap most times and they will jump on an issue that is considered more gossipy and scandalous rather than reporting on boring, but essential and informative news. News has been dumbed down in the last few years, but this is more to do with editors having to bow to financial pressures. Scandal and sex sell and boring, yet informative peices not so much. Could be an issue that (mostly) our society thrives on bullshit and hand-wringing. Can media studies be introduced into our schools along with more Australian history so that we reverse this attitude?
I thought the page 3 girl died out a year or so ago. I saw on the news a while ago that she was put out to pasture as it was seen as a bit backward. Can anyone tell me if this is true?
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I’m happy to admit I choose not to read News Limited papers, but in the spirit of trying to be even handed, can I ask people to nominate their most respected journalists in this country. I could come up with names, but they would all be in the Fairfax-ABC-Left of centre camp. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but for once I’d just like people to nominate others who are not drawn in the style of Alan Jones or Piers Akerman.
So, come on – name Names.
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Although I think you are correct about the ABC being left-wing, I disagree about Fairfax…I just think they look left-wing in comparison with News Ltd papers…
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Details JJ, tiny details. I really would appreciate some recommendations of notable/respected journos who work for News Ltd-Commercial channels-Right of centre.
Anyone? Bueller?
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Miranda Devine.
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Sorry, I can’t do it. I AM JOKING.
I’d hate to get ‘likes’ clicks for that comment.
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I’m smiling Idle. Smiling.
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I knew you were joking…you meant to say Piers Ackerman…
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mmm…maybe Paul Kelly?
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Annabel Crabb. Adele Horin. Rick Fenely.
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“Australian journalism is different because we don’t have naked women on page 3″.
This is such a naive and simplistic post that it almost beggars belief.
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I’m wondering why my comment was deleted?
I wasn’t abrasive, I didn’t make a personal attack on anyone. The most controversial thing I wrote was that you guys reference the UK Daily Mail fairly often. I’ve made lots of comments on here before without having them deleted.
I also know it was definitely posted, because it had two other people “thumbs up” it before it went.
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I went and checked Bec, none of us here have removed it. What time did you post it roughly and I will see if I can find it in the system.
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Thanks Rick – I think I posted around around 10.30am.
If it’s lost, it’s lost, I’m just glad to know it wasn’t deleted on purpose.
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Found it! So sorry about that. Restored.
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I love reading those polls about ‘most trusted’ professionals.
I used to be a journalist, and was married to a lawyer with political aspirations. I felt like we were the most hated couple in the country!
The sad thing that some journalists don’t always realise is that if someone trusts you, they’ll give you the story anyway. I’ve written many stories that I could have written sooner than I did but waited for the right moment for the subject. Still broke the news, still got the exclusive, still maintained a good relationship with the subject.
When people trust you, you don’t need to go looking for great stories – they come to you.
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I think there are dodgy journalists and good journalists everywhere. You can’t say Australian journalists are all pure and good, just like you can’t say all UK journalists are evil. Look at the good work the Guardian did to uncover this scandal.
It’s a bit rich to scold the British public about demanding this content – Mamamia references stories in the UK Daily Mail fairly often, a publication which is definitely on par with NOTW or the Sun. You’re stoking demand here, in Australia, for UK tabloid junk. And it obviously works for you, otherwise you wouldn’t keep doing it.
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Where did the attack on the actor from Hey Dad on this website, fall under the category of great journalism you talk about in this country Mia?
You are just as guilty as NoTW, you are in this job for the money and controversy equals clicks and clicks equals money, you might try and use a different spin but it is still the same outcome.
You can wrap it up in a pretty bow and call it, current affairs, and what everyone’s talking about, but it is still gutter journalism.
Also do tell us why you have not declared your conflict of interest in writing this post?
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Just as guilty? Pretty sure NOTW presided over a systemic, consistent regime of illegal phone hacks and bribes to police…
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Mamamia is a great website but it’s not quite fully journalism either.
No disrespect to the wonderful people here is intended but this is a publication of varied tastes, opinions and experiences. It’s interesting and intelligent people offering their thoughts often from an expert perspective.
Most employ some practices of the journalistic trade but to compare it to a dedicated news service is neither fair nor realistic.
Good journalists strive for objectivity and balance and to avoid their personal opinion being able to be identified. Mia (or Rebecca, Rick etc) putting forward an opinion or encouraging conversation is from the same family but not the same person.
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I’ve just realised that sounds like I’m putting down the mamamia staff when I actually meant the complete opposite. My consternation was directed at Sunday Everyday who seems to want to judge a valid observation/opinion by standards that don’t reasonably apply. Though I note Mia was happy to put her name to her thoughts rather than use a pseudonym…
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I’d like to think we do some things better than the dedicated news services too. Our cheat sheets, for example, help cut through the mire of information on any number of complex issues to inform people. Journalism is about communicating the core essence of facts, after all. Of course, we also post our opinions frequently in separate posts … such is the nature of being a website that covers all bases.
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Agreed. In fact, you even slaped me down when I complain about a lack of opinion in the cheat sheets.
None of my comments are an attack on Mia, her employees or the website. I’ll toats buy our next beer.
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I’m smart enough to know that Idle
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Yeah, but you know where it’s winning? The debate in the comments. The interactivity which follows the original article allows for information and knowledge to be shared, and a far greater balance of ideas than a single article can ever give. As opinions are encouraged, from all sides of the debate, you just get more information through this blog sometimes than you do from a standard news site.
Most of the time I come here for some fluffiness in my day, but I find I am also coming here for hard news stories – not for the artticles, but for the debate, and to create a better informed and balanced view of things.
It’s also a great indicator of what people are really thinking. Polls, surveys etc can give you a yes/no type answer, but reading people’s comments gives you a greater awareness of what people really think.
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Agreed. The articles are interesting, but I come for the comments. The community here is great, even if this website does describe itself as “the daily ‘go-to’ place online for busy, smart, and well-connected Australian women” (Ouch).
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Wow. I’m so ‘all about the comments’ I haven’t even seen that! I should pay more attention to the rest of the site..!
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“you are in this job for the money “…
Well, duh.
I’m in my job for the money, too. I’m thinking of starting up a business – for the money. I make investments – for the money. If I worked for a charity, I’d be doing it for the money, too. I have these things called bills and a life to pay for, you see. If I didn’t do things for the money, I couldn’t survive without begging, stealing, cheating. Or, I could be a dole bludger and have society hate me.
Honestly, I am all for having your own opinions, but can we stop shaking fingers at Mia for making money from this site? Some people are lucky enough to enjoy what they do for a living. It’s such a ludicrous thing to be going on about.
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I totally agree, who cares that mamamia makes money? If you don’t like it, don’t visit the website and leave your nasty comments.
At least they do us the service of announcing ‘sponsored posts’ unlike some of the BS we see on a current affair programs who regularly spruik businesses (eg hello Coles?!!)
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I’ll put my hand up as being completely naive about the way our media works.
So with that out there, I think the reason why so many people are quick to look askance at the Australian media alongside the NoTW debacle is because we *do* see examples of shoddy journalism, and it’s difficult for the average punter to discern who we can and cannot trust.
Yesterday’s CT letter from Tony Abbott is a classic example – look through the comments and see how much inaccurate information is relayed there. Where did everyone get that information? From news outlets who publish sensationalised and misleading headlines! Of course, there is an onus on the government to get their message out effectively and they seem to be failing miserably so far.
Much in the same way that footy scandals cause parents to pull their kids from junior leagues, people will turn on an entire industry if they don’t understand (a) how it works and (b) how isolated the current problem is.
It’s sad but true. Hopefully though, your post will salvage the reputation of many journalists and provoke us to think twice about bagging people who are simply doing their job, and doing it well.
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From my perspective I think that ‘news’ is owned by too few people who use it as a tool to push their own agendas. That’s the biggest problem. But even this website pushes as agenda as well as reporting news. There is no such thing as true impartiality and balanced reporting any more.
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any more? was there ever?
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I believe there was a brief period where there was.
When TV first launched it was available to everyone, everywhere. As you couldn’t start your own network very easily (the opposite of today, anyone can start a news channel with an iPhone/Flip video and youtube – YMMV of course) the medium couldn’t be flooded by newcomers.
The organisations and journalists who first started there took their job very, very seriously and were under a great deal of scrutiny. As a result, for perhaps a decade, some of the best impartial reporting of the news was done. I don’t mean as in ‘the big scoop’, but as in the every day reporting of every day news.
Nostalgia? Perhaps, but I do agree with you Anonymous that impartial media is rare and historically, absent.
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I am really torn on this issue. There are journalist in this country that to me epitomise integrity, truth and public interest- Kerry obrian, Matt brown Virginia trioli spring to mind immediately. However I have seen first hand extremely nasty and underhanded tactics used by both television an newspaper
Journalist. And so very often they get the facts and details very very wrong. Over and over again I have heard victims of high profile crimes speak about how they ( and their families ) are ‘traumatised’ by the media attention. Even more so when newspapers print false information.
I think journalist have very high responsibilty to print the facts , but I think the 24 hour news cycle makes it almost impossible for well researched and factual articles to be published.
I do believe that independent, unbiased reporting is the cornerstone to any kind of freedom and democracy, but I am afraid that kind of reporting is difficult to find in Australian newspapers/ on commercial television.
It has been years since I bought a newspaper, but read a variety of news sources online.
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Yes, Australia’s tabloid papers are different from the UK’s. For example, Sydney’s Daily Telegraph is all of Britian’s tabloids squeezed into a single paper, but the page 3 girl gets squeezed out.
Same kind of sex scandals. Same ‘gotcha’ journalism. Same green hate and anti-intellectualism.
No tits. Phew.
The problem is the complete bias that is in all reporting these days. We get our news more and more from non-journalistic sources, like Mamamia or Alan Jones. These types of media aren’t bound by ‘fairness’ and frankly, don’t have to give a balanced view or even mention oposing views. Yes, MM did give Tony Abbott airtime yesterday, but MM leans strongly left and I don’t think anyone denys this (though whingers whine in the comments a lot). Alan Jones CAN suggest drowning our Prime Minister in a bag and make up facts on climate change (as he does often) – I may not like it, but Alan Jones doesn’t hold himself to any standard of ethics or truthfullness.
Newspapers are different. Espeically major ones. Yet Sydney’s Daily Telegraph continues to push specific agendas: kill the carbon tax, prevent gay marriage, present the Greens in the worst possible light and install Tony Abbott as PM.
Why aren’t Australian journalists seen in a better light? Why do people so readily link Australian hournalists with the actions of immoral UK journos?
Because there is an implied trust, and that trust is being broken.
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Couldnt agree more idle dad.
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I’ve seen quite a bit of editorial content supporting gay marriage in Sydney’s The Daily Telegraph. When you say “same fag hate”, Idle Dad, I’m going to hazard a guess it’s been a decade or so since you actually read that particular paper
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I happily stand corrected!
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And removed the offending sentence!
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Idle dad, there is plenty of comments you have made where I have not agreed with you, but on this one you are 1000% right. You have said it perfectly.
I would also add that although Mia calls herself a journalist as do the others who work at mm, she has no qualifications in journalisim therefor she has never studied the important ethics and journalism component of the course.
As she is paid by a subsidiary of news Corp, ie sky news I hardly think she is showing much journalistic ethics by writing this blog post.
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Because we all know journalists learn about their craft at university … that is bollocks. Journalism used to be a trade, and the best ones have been made in the industry itself.
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THIS X 1000. So glad I quit studying journalism. How the frack you can study journalism I do not know. Although I did attend Macleay College, and actually, that course was really hands on and thus kick ass. However, a university environment is hardly the place to churn out a skilled writer. I want to go back in time and wave my HECS debt in 20-year-old Camilla’s face.
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No, no, no.
Journalism *used* to be a trade and skills were learnt on the job, but in today’s industry there are not enough cadetships out there enabling this to happen. The ‘churn it out’ nature of most publications allows for very little teaching and mentoring.
Degrees from institutions such as UTS and CSU are highly valued because those people have not only studied journalism, but also the ethics, laws and technologies associated with their chosen profession. Many fine people have come through these ranks. They also involve mandatory work in newsrooms, and internships across the country.
‘The best ones have been made in the industry itself’ may have rang true 20 years ago, but this is no longer the case.
Regarding Mia’s occupation, she can call herself whatever she wants, but from a technical point of view she is a writer and columnist (amongst other things), not a journalist. She’s a damn fine writer and columnist so really she should have no want to be called a journo!
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In my experience university preps a few skills, but not many. The rest comes from on the job training, whether as a cadet or as a grade 1. University was, as you said, great for media law and ethics classes but contained very little else of any real worth. Personally. I can’t speak for all.
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I see your point that learning on the job is more valuable than sitting in lectures for days on end, however a lot of people don’t seem to realise that these courses now involve significant internships and work in newsrooms as well as the important theory.
I just get worried by a number of people seeking work in the media thinking they need no qualifications – that all you need is a laptop and google and you’re set.
Many of these people also refuse opportunities to work in regional areas to cut their teeth, wanting to be a famed reporter straight away. These are often the people who bring the industry into disrepute.
But I do see your point – people learn differently. University is great for some, on the job for others.
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Totally agree there. Working in the regions was the best thing I ever did. As my editor said at the time: “When you have to see the people you write about the next day, it makes you a better, more fair journalist.”
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Your unnecessary snipe here against Mia doesn’t surprise me. Self-appointed critics who like to sneer at tabloid media, particularly that published by News Ltd, also like to frown upon magazine and blog media types and assume they have no training in ethics.
It’s simply anti-democratic snobbery for you to make such sweeping generalisations. An Idle Dad’s original comment smacks of that too.
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How so? The only ethics I mention are those around reporting unbiased news. I believe MM shows a remarkable amount of ethics but my point is: it doesn’t have to.
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Some of my favourite opinionators and columnists in the country do not have formal qualifications, but studied their craft on-the-job as old-school cadet journalists.
University quals are a fairly recent development.
Besides, I didn’t realise I needed a piece of paper to show I have ethics or am capable of using them in the conduct of my work. It’s a moot point, don’t you think?
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Ethics in a field of work or profession is not just a matter of doing what you think is right, there are formal standards and precedents that you need to know to work ethically.
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As far as I know, Kerry O’Brien never studied journalism at any university. Correct me if I’m wrong.
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And yet I remember a video chat with Mia and Caroline overington where Caroline had to explain to Mia over and over again why she could not mention a child victims name, or when this site had the names of the woman who was killed by her brother, children’s names up for days, when she did a gainers post and then went back and changed the post without crossouts so to change the tone of the story, when there was an unchecked attack on an actor who has still not been charged with anything. I could go on and on but the amount of times this site has broken codes of conduct is staggering.
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Add to this the fact that Mamamia has no concept of full disclosure. The most egregious example I can think of is the kangaroo meat/Voiceless post.
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What was the conflict of interest behind the kangaroo cull post?
I’m geniunely interested.
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Mia’s family were the founders of Voiceless, and this wasn’t mentioned in the post…
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I agree with you.
I enjoy this site for its commentary but sometimes the “journalism” and the discussions on it flout both media ethics and Australian laws in ways that the legal department at the broadcaster I work at would baulk at. There are the examples you mention, along with the discussion presuming guilt of a person accused of sexual assault before it had gone to trial – thank god that trial is in another jurisdiction or the contempt of court warning lights would have been going off, surely? Because the ethical ones about that man’s right to a fair trial certainly didn’t seem to be.
As a publisher you can find yourself in legal hot water – including fines or jail – for contempt of court, defamation, identifying protected persons, vilification, etc. And this applies not just to what you publish, but to the comments your site hosts.
This is before ethical considerations even enter the equation.
Sometimes I’ve been very surprised at the legal risks this site takes. Either it has a brave and risk-taking legal department with a big fund set aside for potential lawsuits, or it gets no legal advise on what it publishes and ought to.
Meanwhile, I don’t see why people have a problem with this site publishing opinion pieces and editorialising on issues. It’s a comment-driven site.
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Kerry started life as a news cadet but that isn’t overly relevant truth be told. He began in a time where that hands-on approach was virtually the only way to really learn the craft. Today it’s much harder to just start at a media organisation and so most learn the basics of the trade at university. But it needs to be pointed out that most with journalism degrees don’t end up in journalism as such.
The ones who do make it are those who work hard at outside of their academic hours and expose themselves to writing and the news and gaining practical experience (much like an informal cadet). The good ones (and yes, a few of the dodgy but determined ones) shine through. Australian media is nowhere near as sensationalist or sleazy as most of the western world though we are becoming a little lazier in some practices.
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Does Mia show journalistic ethics by publishing this post? For starters, it is an opinion piece, not news reporting – I’m not sure what you are basing that statement on? It isn’t a news piece.
And even though it is an opinion piece, she does declare her conflicts of interests (by naming which papers she works for and pointing out their relation to NotW). She declares her hand and makes a point. I happen to think she’s correct – just, and that her argument isn’t as solid as it could be and ignores what I see as the true concerns.
Hence I shoot my mouth off in the comments.
Perhaps ‘Leader and promoter of civil public discourse in Australia’ might be a better title for Mia than ‘Journalist’ but it’s probably a pain to write.
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She declared her conflicts of interest…… Except where she didn’t.
Show on sky news channel. Sky news partly owned by BskyB, BskyB partley owned by News Corp. She left that important part out. Wonder why???
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Mia works for Fairfax, Mia has a show on Sky, Mia is an independent publisher, Mia used to work in Magazines, Mia used to work on Channel 9. I think this qualifies Mia’s opinion on the media with quite a degree of experience and grounding. The Sky show is not a secret and never has been, given that we air it publicly.
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She USED to work at ch 9?? So that wasn’t her I saw on Monday morning on the today show? You mean there is more than one of them??
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In management, Paul. Though I suspect you knew what I meant.
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Even if the Sky show isn’t a secret, it would have been better to mention it.
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I can’t believe you would equate Alan Jones’ hyperbolic right-wing bias with MM…sure, MM does wear its heart on it’s sleeve from time to time, but they will give space to views that contradict the MM editorial line…Tony Abbott’s article is a good example…
Last time Alan Jones had Julia Gillard on his program, he just abused her for 10 minutes for being late, then spent the rest of the interview being rude to her and calling her a liar…
Silly comparison!
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Last week didn’t you compare Greenpeace whipper snippering crops as equal to Pro-lifer right wingers fire bombing family planning clinics and killing Doctors and kinda call them the same? LOL.
My point, however, was not to compare MM to Alan Jones. I was that there is the traditional news reporting media, that gather information directly from the source and publish news. Then there are other types of media, websites like MM and talk back radio that gather their news from traditional media and either re-publish it (see MM’s daily news snippets) or provide straight-out opinion pieces.
There are two problems. One, traditional media has taken on agendas beyond that scope and two, secondary news sources that filter and add bias intentionally are seen as primary news sources (as some commenters here have even said they view MM as, and as many view Alan’s show as).
There is light years between MM’s left lean and Alan Jones’ program. They are polar examples of secondary news sources that do not hide that there is an agenda to their publishing.
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Bloody Hell…go back and read my comment again. I didn’t say Greenpeace whipper snippering = fire bombing family planning clinics and killing Doctors….what are you, Alan Jones? All I said is that Greenpeace’s direct action is verging…progressing towards if you like…the kind of acts that we call terrorism…I still stand by that argument…that some poor deluded person might one day take GPs direct action example one step further…
See the difference?
I still don’t agree that you can equally compare AJ with MM…yes, they both operate in the opinion-space, but they use much different tactics and methodologies…AJ is exclusive and uses ridicule…MM is inclusive and expects respect from all sided of the debate…
Big difference…
I do agree with pretty much everything else you said in your comment, by the way…
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Your Greenpeace arguement is a long bow to draw, I remember ‘eco-terrorist’ labels being thrown around thirty years ago and still the number of intentional deaths from pro-environment lobby is zero.
But luckily here, I wasn’t comparing Alan Jones and MM, so we’re friends again!
I’m grouping them together in an opinion space (as you do in your comment above) bound by the same level of ethics. MM simply choses to have above the minimum (which is none).
PS. I would LOVE to be a left version of Alan Jones, or, more accurately, an Australian version of Cenk Uygur (but I’m not smart enough).
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I hate it when we fight…
*sniff*
[ I would so listen to you if you were the left-wing AJ....could I ring up and scream about Phony Tony to you on the phone each day ]
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I think it’s important to make the distinction you made, but not to stop there.
I used to work for News Limited myself and I never, not once, ran into, heard of or discovered anything even close to the phone hacking described in Britain. Not to say it didn’t happen.
I also knew journalists who worked there, who still do, who are brilliant at their jobs and ethical to boot. But I also know dodgy journos who don’t much care for accuracy.
That’s a discussion we still need to have in this country, about the role of the media in steering intelligent, non-hysterical debate about important issues. It’s a role that, sometimes, the media fails to achieve.
The institution of journalism, when free of dodgy practices whether illegal or not, is a pretty damned good one indeed. We just need to keep it that way.
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Sometimes?
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In the sense of ‘not all the time’…
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When I was studying journalism (in the 80s), one of my lecturers told me that the only place I’d ever get a job would be The News Of The World because I wrote puns into all my headlines.
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I’m a huge fan of puns myself Kate, no wonder we get along…
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Mia’s comment about the great British public getting what it wants is interesting. Everyone knew that phones were being tapped years ago, but somehow this time round Murdoch miscalculated what ordinary people were able to tolerate in terms of unethical behavior. He’s fallen off the tightrope this time, and now he’s wearing the consequences.
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The big mistake was phone-tapping the Royal Family…anachronistic or not, the Firm still has a lot of power to wield when they want to…
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Not even, hacking the Royals got people jailed in 2007 but it wasn’t enough to tip public anger…that only really came when it emerged they had hacked the phone of a dead girl. So that’s the moral line people appear to have drawn. Royals and famous people OK … dead girls is over the line.
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I agree that the hacking of the murdered girl was the final straw, but I think things started changing after the Royal incident…this story always felt like a ticking bomb to me…it just never went away…but kudos to the Guardian for being so tenacious!
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There was always something heroic about the intrepid young reporter doing anything to get a scoop. But the technology has changed and the rules are woolly and ad dollars are spread pretty thin. It’s a race to the bottom and The News Of The World has always been in the lead. What surprises me is the level of shock. It’s not The Times, it’s The News Of The World! It’s always been more of a joke than a news source. Of course not all journalists would hack a phone. Not all journalists would be happy to work for TNOTW and not all editors would sanction anything for an exclusive. But some did, and readers lapped it up. We get the media we deserve.
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The supply/ demand argument is ingenuous and simplistic. The press is a powerful influence on public attitudes and perceptions, they don’t just give the people what they want, although obviously people must buy them for them to continue. There is a huge responsibility placed on the press in a free democracy to uncover stories which powerful intersts may want to hide. The records of some Australian journalists, most notably Chris Masters, in doing this demonstrates the importance of this role.
So I respect and honour those journalists who take this vital role seriously. Unfortunately they are in the minority.
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TBH I don’t think it’s down to the general public buying the trash that contributes to them hacking or selling the stories…
I’m from the UK, years ago you had the tabloid papers = labour, broadsheets = Tories etc etc etc so that in effect meant it equalled your class. So if your parents bought the sun/notw (which is basically the sunday sun) then you would read it…obviously until you got to the age of realising it was a pile of crap…. BUT you would also have the “posh” people reading the likes of the sun/notw basically for the OMG factor as you do hear/read stories which makes you realise you are in fact fairly normal!!!
I think people tend to buy what they are “brought” up on no matter what, so they will read the tabloids even if they don’t agree with half of the stuff in it…others just don’t have the brains to change to a newspaper which will actually give you a story without sensationalising it as it seems normal to do that… It is like a HUGE colony of ants…they follow the trail… Me personally, I hate the “OMG JORDAN AND PETE saga, posh and becks blahblah blah….” stories… Yes it may be oh wow… but it isn’t newsworthy of 10-16 pages of news when you have people dying, children starving, rapists and murders going on…
The NOTW would have front page news on schlebs about affairs/love children which WOULD last for as long as possible so some weeks they may have 10 pages PLUS about an affair then follow it up the week after… WHO CARES?!! I have pleased it has closed down and I truly hope the victims of crime (or their families) get compensated for the trash paper/company who have blatantly taken the pee out of everything they have had to go through!
While I’m on my high horse… I heard the news this morning saying something about Becks suing for millions as they must of been hacked too as they were not sure how they found out about the cars they bought, price of the homes, the Rebecca Loos saga… He basically bricking it that, in all of this dirty dealings and horrible business his dirty affairs will come out in leaked tapes of his “non existent” affairs!! People with money will be running scared now!!
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I am pleased not have pleased!!
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This is a really complex issue.
On one point I agree with you. Your average work-a-day journalist is not to be blamed here. They work hard to deliver copy for newspapers and magazines, as do TV and radio journos. But I’m not surprised that the NOTW scandal has caused a backlash against the media. But anyone who claims that all journalists are unscrupulous and corrupt is being ridiculous.
I do take issue with your claim that Australian’s don’t have an appetite for for scandal, sleaze and intimate private details about the lives of public figures. If that’s true, why are gossip mags so popular in Australia? And why do TV shows like ACA and TT run so many stories on celebrity gossip…even shows like Today seem to run celebrity gossip segments every 15 minutes…seems to be the appetite is here in Australia, but the medium that delivers the celebrity gossip is different.
But it’s not just sleazy tabloid journalism that people are complaining about. I think the NOTW scandal has also stirred up complaints about the unbalanced editorial stances of some Australian newspapers and the proliferation of overly-biased opinion writers in Australian media (on both sides of politics.) Seems to me that it is impossible for modern-media to report the news without adding a layer of editorial comment over the top of the news. It is unnecessary and distorts the reporting of news.
I think the carbon-tax debate is a clear example of this. When the Government released details of the CT and ETS, the media focuss was all about “Winners and losers. Will you be worse off under the CT”…there was less reporting about the actual mechanics of the CT and the ETS. This isn’t bad journalism…this is simply cynical editorialising…because they know hip-pocket headlines attracts more readers and ratings than raw, unadulterated reporting of the facts.
I’d also argue that the advent of 24/7 news cycles has diluted good journalism…there are so many hours of news to generate each day that there’s a lot of filler being broadcast each day…filler that just distracts from the real news…I think the “dumbing-down” of news reporting over the past 10-15 years is just as worrying as the proliferation of sleazy tabloid-journalism…
Finally, I will say this. While not perfect, I think MM itself gets closer to a more balanced approach to current affairs reporting than most media in Australia. You do publish fluff sometimes, but it’s intelligent fluff…and it never talks down to its readers….but you also tackle hard issues with fairness and balance…so, please keep up the good work!
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Of course most journalists are ethical, and of course British newspapers are different to Aussie ones.
Isn’t the Sky News channel partly owned by BskyB, which is partly owned by News Limited?
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