BY MIA FREEDMAN
When you have a skirmish with someone on social media, the world is watching. OK, not the world. Nelson Mandela and Lady Gaga are usually pretty busy but there are always plenty of strangers keen to jump in and pelt you with tomatoes.
And that’s how it went down earlier this week when I became the public target of some pretty choice insults from iconic Australian feminist Anne Summers. It started innocently enough – it always does. I was having a chat on Twitter with my friend, journalist Julia Baird, about Hillary Clinton.
I’ve always loved Hillary and never more than now. She’s at the top of her game, in the prime of her career. She’s no longer defined as someone’s wife or mother. She’s kicking goals, kicking arse and winning international acclaim as secretary of state (which is the equivalent of our foreign minister but with actual power and immeasurable influence).
As Julia and I tweeted cheerily about how magnificent Hillary is, the subject of whether she’d run for president in 2016 popped up. Could this be her time? Her window?

The image that sparked the tribute tumblr Txts from HIllary
A US president can only serve two concurrent terms so assuming Obama is reelected this year, he cannot run again in 2016. He’ll be done. This leaves the way open for Hillary to contest the Democratic ticket for the presidency, something she missed out on when her party picked Obama over her in 2008.
Except. Hillary will be 69 in 2016. Is that too old to put your hand up for the most important and demanding job in the world? I mildly observed on Twitter that perhaps it was. That perhaps 2016 would be too late for Hillary. Not because she’s a woman but because I think being the President Of The United States (POTUS) is a younger person’s game. Not a 30 year old but not a 70 year old either.

That’s when famed Australian feminist and author Anne Summers unexpectedly parachuted into our conversation:

When someone suggested that was a bit harsh, she replied:

I was a bit reeling after that very publicly back-hand and replied:

but she wasn’t finished:

Except I never said anything about a ‘scrap heap’.
Her words, certainly not mine.
Others quickly chimed in crossly, citing Ronald Reagan who was President from age 69 until he was almost 78 and republican candidate John McCain who was 72 when he ran against Obama in 2008.
They brandished these examples triumphantly as evidence that 69 isn’t too old to run for POTUS except I don’t think either man sells the idea of older political leaders very well. Reagan was plagued by health problems during his Presidency including recurring skin cancers, hearing and prostate problems.
There was also wide speculation that the Alzheimer’s with which he was formally diagnosed after he left office had begun while he was still at The White House. Some journalists later admitted they were conflicted about whether to report some worrying behaviour they witnessed towards the end of Reagan’s presidency that suggested dementia.
Meanwhile, McCain had a heart condition, leading to speculation that if he was elected, his running mate Sarah Palin would be ‘one heartbeat away from being President’. Many say that cost him votes.
Still, when a tweeter called @olderworkers began accusing me of being ‘ageist’ and others began piling on, I took a breath and walked away from a barney I never meant to have. I also wanted to consider the criticism and gather some thoughts that were longer than 140 characters.
Is it really ageist to question the physical stamina of a 69 year old who could be 77 by the time her hypothetical presidency is finished?
Looking at the POTUS’ job description from the bleachers, it’s hard to imagine a more demanding gig. Mentally, emotionally, physically. The stress is relentless. And people do slow down as they get older. We all do. That’s just biology. And the more stressful your life, the bigger toll it takes. How exhausted does Obama look? And he’s only 50.
It’s a sad fact that wisdom and life experience are woefully undervalued in our society. Perhaps that’s why Anne Summers lashed out. There are many skills you can’t download via Google, many aspects of emotional intelligence that can’t be fast-tracked.
But US election campaigns are extraordinarily hardcore – they last up to a year and there are 52 50 states to visit, multiple times each.
And that’s before you win and have to start actually running the country. If Hillary runs for President in 2016, she will have just come off the back of eight years as secretary of state with all the travel and stress that entails.
Is it so offensive to suggest she – or any 69 year old – may lack the stamina to be the leader of the Western World?
For a job like POTUS, I think it requires a balance of wisdom experience and enormous stamina. I’m not sure what the magic age is. Somewhere between 45 and 65 perhaps? I’m you have your own view.
I cannot state strongly enough how much I value the contribution of older people in our society. There should be more of it.
In fact last week Mamamia published a post about older people by 20 year old Sean Power. It was a call to other Gen Y’ers to look at the older generation and see wisdom, not someone who doesn’t use lol in the right way (you can read it here).
Being a political leader is not a beauty contest or a triathlon. Age and experience are a necessity. But at what point does your age become a liability? I don’t know the answer but it’s one that American voters may have to consider well before 2016.
How old do you think is too old to be a political leader? Or does age not matter at all?







Comments
228 Comments so far
I would have voted for her in 2008. But, I am now 62. A 69 year old does not have the energy and stamina to effectively do the job. Period. The risk of serious health issues that arise once the body turns 60 are real. The day to day health problems at that age are real to me. The country was lucky that Reagan was able to serve out his term, but whether he had Alzheimer’s is still an open question. He is not a positive comparison. maybe there are a few people that old in great shape. But i wont support them.Sorry, I don’t want to take the chance on someone that old running the country.
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I do wish Hilary had won the right to run for presidency in 2008. I think it would have been preferable for her to do 2008-2012 and Obama to run for 2016. He’ll be mid 50s then, not too old.
I think she is certainly capable, but she is stepping down as secretary of state in January. It’s been said what an exhausting role that is. How exhausting would PUSA be? If she’s up to it, I hope she goes for it, but I think 69 is getting up there. Surely she’s wanting to retire at some time…..
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A US president is limited to two “concurrent” terms? Huh? A US president is limited to two terms regardless of sequence. See Grover Cleveland as an example of a US president whose terms were not served consecutively.
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When Grover Cleveland was president, there were no term limits. FDR was elected to an unprecedented 4 terms (served only 3 because of death) and he was after Cleveland.
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Hi Mia,
Been thinking about this, doing my best to see your point, but my position is the same as before. I’d be perfectly happy to vote in a 69 year old POTUS (especially the awesome Ms Clinton!)
In this instance, I do think your original Twitter comments were offensive and to say, ‘Past 60…energy levels wane’ is pretty damn arbitrary.
And ‘…not a fan of elderly presidents…’ just seems so closed-minded. What if it was a 69 year old Clinton versus (for example) a much younger Palin?
What if the oldest person is best for the job?
This follow up article continues to offend, not justify.
‘Being a POTUS is a younger person’s game’
‘We all slow down as we get older’
I understand these are only your opinions – but I think it’s a shame you can’t see why it’s hypocritical.
C’mon, how about we just leave numbers – be they age, weight, amount of kids – out of the equation and vote for the candidate with the best skills set?
Because I do think that if you disagree with someone not being hired for a job because of their weight or parental status (and it seems obvious that you do!), it’d be nice and logical to extend that same courtesy to their age.
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To Carmen:
Maybe Hillary did leave him, you notice she is always out of the country… They could be married in name only for political reasons. I am just saying you never know what their real relationship is about.
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I don’t think 69 is to old to run for office, don’t forget with age comes wisdom and experience. Obama was 46, he won because he was popular among the young, and would be the first black american in this office, and he had 0 experience.
Hillary gained her experience by not only taking a job, but giving that job everything she had, she didn’t get the job just to put it on a resume, and she did the job well.
As far as being so worn out from her Secretary of State job, she has already told Obama that if he re-elected she would not be his Secretary of State, so she has fours years to rest.
She definitely has the experience to do the job of President of the United States,and she would do it well. Go Hillary!!!!
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Mia and team, I read your article in the weekend paper about Hillary Clinton. I read a lot of things you write and dont agree with some (and often think, that girl needs a good sit down and chat about her ideas of feminism). My issue is not about Hillary’s age, nor that she is a smart successful woman who would have made an excellent president.
But she will never ever be a role model to me or my daughters as a fine example of a woman-
Because every time I look at her I hear strain of Tammy Wynette’s ‘stand by your man’ and can only think of the sad sad message she sent a generation of women. If you husband is more powerful and maybe better looking than you, it doesn’t matter how brilliant you are, he can humiliate you on a world stage, in the most personal and disrespectful way, and you DON’T throw his shirts out n the white house lawn and set fire to them?? she should have had enough respect for herself, her daughter, and the hundreds of women that admired her, and her talent to leave him, and the fact that she didn’t makes her a terrible role model to me.
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I’m sure that this wasn’t the only time he strayed, but we don’t know for sure, but why is she a terrible role model for not leaving her husband? Lots of people don’t leave partners who have strayed. You don’t know what went down with them as a result of the fallout from this.
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I disagreed with Mia on this subjectlike some other people but the disrespectful comments from some people make me think MM team should look at getting us the MM community to Login to comment. This way people that are just plain nasty can be black listed.
This website can be so inspiring, let’s keep it that way hey?!
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While we’re all on here… Consumed by technology the oldies are out there… Seeing their friends, playing golf, volunteering… The oldies I know are much more active, fit and engaged in society than most 30 somethings – we can learn so much from them.
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There are several forms of age-related bias. Jeunism is the discrimination against older people in favor of younger ones. This includes political candidacies, jobs, and cultural settings where the supposed greater vitality and/or physical beauty of youth is more appreciated than the supposed greater moral and/or intellectual rigor of adulthood. Wikipedia
Jeunism is a preference of younger people purely on the basis of age. This term is often linked to the realm of employment; certain sectors favour younger candidates in order to project a certain image. European Commission – Justice, for diversity, against discrimination.
Etcetera
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No matter which way I look at this..the remark was ageist. Even just insinuating that someone may be past their use by date is quite rude. But I think, deep down, you know that.
I’m not racist but…..
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Whenever people qualify statements with “regardless of gender”, I always think “I’m not sexist, but …”.
I know plenty of brilliant and incredibly capable people over 70 – so comments like this sadden me.
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Isnt there an age limit to be the head of the IMF? Surely POTUS is a similarly powerful position and an age limit would also be appropriate?
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Was there are question raised about Ronald Reagan and his dementia?? Did his dementia encroach on his presidential term?
I think unfortunately for some people over 60 there are some health concerns which could impact on decision making (especially important when running a country!). Perhaps Presidents, of all ages, should have mental and physical health checks while in office (they probably already do).
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Also, some discussions should not be played out on Twitter. Surely the 140 characters (or whatever the limit is) is too limiting for a debate.
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While I think the relationship between age and capacity really comes down to the individual, I would like to point out that the average retirement age in the US is 67 (according to the latest OECD data).
If Hillary (or any other political figure) were in another industry, it would not be out of the question for her to be planning retirement by 2016. I also think politics is far more demanding than most other professions, ESPECIALLY at a presidential level.
But of course the decision to run is hers to make, and we can only share our opinions from the sidelines.
It doesn’t, however, mean questioning her age is ignorant or bigoted. It is simply a question, and a fair one in my opinion.
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Hi Mia, love Mamamia. even if I don’t always agree, it is certainly thought provoking. Your passionate opinions are very inspiring, but do you still get shocked when others react passionately to your take on an issue? I’m not attacking you, just wondering
Thanks
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Hey Maya,
I’m not shocked but it can be frustrating to be misinterpreted. Or when people project their own issues onto me…..
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Happens to all of us at one time or another. I can twist myself into knots trying to make sure that someone, somewhere, somehow doesn’t take some obscure comment too personally while I try to make a point. And then a throw away line brings the world crashing in.
Almost wants to make you give up on this website.
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It’s one of the challenges of ‘putting yourself out there’ Mia. Nobody will ever agree with everything you say, and it’s a bit patronising surely to say that because people disagree with you that they are ‘projecting their own issues onto you’. Surely as much as you are entitled to your opinion others are entitled to theirs.
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Tom, the example cited above is CLEARLY an issue of projection. Ann Summers, in stating that ‘people over 60 are not over the scrap heap’ is projecting an opinion on Mia that she clearly did not express, and does not share. There is a difference between possibly not being the right person to be the leader of the free world at 70-ish and being ‘ready for the scrap heap at 60′.
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You are making a living Mia from having an opinion – projecting YOUR opinion – and if you went back over some of your articles on here Im pretty sure that even if unintended – you would be projecting YOUR issues onto your readers.
The reason why this is infuriating is because you have put an opinion – not an informed one – just what you seem to believe – that Hilary Clinton would possibly be too old to be POTUS.
The ageist comments were directed at you because each person is an individual – Hilary at 70 could have more energy than me at 50? How could you possibly know how she would be feeling physically or mentally??
We are heading for a serious problem in the Australian workforce with the ageing population and maybe instead of getting defensive – why dont you do an article with the person from @olderworkers about the issue that is facing us – that to me would be a better way of dealing with it. And could be eye opening to your readers.
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I think Mia’s observation is valid and realistic. POTUS is a very taxing job. At 27 years, I would definitely struggle! I really don’t see how her comment was ageist. Anne Summers was a bit on the defensive! There are some really mean commentors (funnily enough, always anonymous) on this website that bring so much negativity to the place. Remember people, if you don’t agree with someone else’s opinion, that’s fine – but why get nasty?
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I couldn’t agree with you more Mia! I don’t think you are being ageist – you are being a realist. I think there are certain jobs that really are far too busy and stressful over a certain age (around 70) – like POTUS, a neurosurgeon and a pilot just to name a few. I don’t think people over 70 should be put on the scrap heap – but I think that there are certain jobs where people should be in a very good physical and mental condition.
And why do people have to be so harsh when they disagree with someone else’s opinion? For goodness sake, why can’t people politely disagree? The fact that Anne Summers called you ignorant and bigotted says far more about her character than anything else. That is way over the top – she could have disagreed with you without resorting to that sort of language. I teach my 3, 5 and 8 year children to have better manners than that!
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The outrage on here is so confected.
It is a legitimate question! How old until you have to be tested yearly for your license? Why do we make all judges in Australia retire at 70? Because like it or not, decline happens. Sure it happens faster for some than others, but it’s not like it doesn’t happen.
Hillary might be the person to make that choice, but for me the other issue is ‘will she be voted in at that age and if not will some boffin republican get the gig’. I am an enormous hillary fan. Have been for 20 years. Love her.
But I think her ship has sailed when it comes to the presidency.
I love employing older people, I find they bring qualities lacking in Gen X and Y (difference – they have some things younger people don’t, younger people generally have some skills that older people don’t). But if you think there is no difference between 50 and 70, you are crazy.
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Mia, I love you and your website and the way you communicate. It seems to me this situation comes down to how easily it is to misconstrue somebody’s message on Twitter. Your Tweet that you aren’t a fan of elderly presidents can be read with a very different tone to that which you meant it to and to some people may have sounded snide, even though of course you would not have meant it that way.
There is no way that someone reading that would have received your full opinion on the matter because it’s impossible to communicate so big a message over twitter.
These disagreements are always going to crop up when you express opinions in this type of media. This isn’t a reason to stop, but don’t take it personally when it happens.
People just jump on things because they are passionate about them.
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I am getting so sick of people venting their tall poppy syndrome symptoms on this website!!!! What an immature and green-eyed approach to take every opportunity to cut Mia down. Oh, and please, please, be more inventive in your comments than pointing our spelling / minor errors. Really people??? By all means disagree with Mia, I know I sometimes do, but try and keep it at an intelligent level!!
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How old is too old? Great question and well worth consideration. Mia was no where near being ageist, she appears to be genuinely, and rightfully considering the question.
How old do you expect your surgeon to be? I bet old enough to be experienced and knowledgeable, but young enough to handle a scalpel without shaking.
Thought for your consideration.
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Is it just me, or did Mia NOT actually say Hillary was too old, but merely suggest PERHAPS she might become so in 4 years time if facing an 8 year tenure…? Is being physically too old not a subjective thing? Indeed it is a matter for HC to decide (though she has already stated she WON’T be running), and I haven’t doubt that her decision is based partly on her feeling she may not be up to the task. Of course, this is just my opinion, to which I am entitled, as is Mia.
Gone are the days where we can have a discussion without it turning into a personal attack. To keep all the haters at bay, maybe we need a PC check next to spell check?
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I think that Hillary should be & anyone else going for ‘Top Jobs’ should be judged on an individual basis, regardless of age.
Sadly Mia I believe your are mistaken
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Mistaken about what? Mia didn’t SAY that she though Hilary was too old. She posed a question about what age was too old. I don’t think it’s outrageous to consider someone’s age as a factor in their ability to do a job. I would probably not hire a 25 year old to be president because her age indicates she doesn’t have enough experience. Just like someone who is going on 70 might have potential health problems. It’s just a factor that deserves consideration.
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While I am technically Gen Y, I run Adage.com.au, a leading job board for mature age workers. The experience and knowledge held by this audience should not be underestimated or undervalued and I believe to some extent we have ignored this audience in Australia from both a recruitment and communications point of view. I welcome Mia’s comments as I think it brings the issue of ‘age’ to a wider forum for debate. The average age of my jobseeker is 51, which means potentially at least another 10 to 15 years left in the workforce. Obviously there are variables: financial, caring responsibilities, super savings, health. Of course some people as they age are plagued by health issues, so too are people under 40. Each individual should be assessed on merit and the ability to do the job. I think it is important to also acknowledge that 60 today is not what 60 was 30 years ago. The photo I’ve included below of my grandparents in the 80s helps demonstrate this. They lived a very hard life, different to their kids (boomers). In this photo they would have been early 70′s. When they died in their early 90s this is what they still looked like. My dad who is in his mid 60s is probably fitter than he has ever been and does not show the same ageing as his parents. Hopefully this is something which happens with every succeeding generation!
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Glad you aren’t helping me find a job if you don’t think Mia is being ageist Heidi
Clearly you Gen Y’s have no idea or understanding of what it’s like to be an older worker looking for a job in this country. I’m shocked, but not surprised by your attitudes.
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I thought it was a fair comment and that yours was pretty ageist itself. BTW, I’m not Gen Y myself…..
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Sorry Faybian, I just saw on another web site that Heidi didn’t think Mia was being ageist and I thought she would have been more sympathetic to older Australians and ageist attitudes, but apparently not. Being buddies with Mia is more important.
Look I don’t think there is any malice in what Mia is saying on her blog, but it’s like me talking about religious discrimination ( I’ve never been discriminated against due to my religion and neither should anyone else)but I have been discriminated against due to my age by recruiters.
Sorry Mia but if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck then it is more than likely a duck
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My point is that age is not a measure of how fit and healthy you are, which is how I interpreted Mia’s comments. I don’t think she is right, but I don’t think she was being discriminatory.
I know that age discrimination is alive and well in this country and I don’t need to be 50 to realise this. I spend every day talking to jobseekers about this. Some are 35 some are 65. Don’t assume age discrimination only affects people over a certain age.
I just think we need to be careful always playing the discriminatory card. I understand that this is a highly emotive topic. I too am very passionate about it, but if we keep talking just about ‘age’ it makes it more of an issue.
I have found educating employers on the business case for a mature worker delivers a much more productive outcome than using a ‘stick’ approach.
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Nobody is advocating a ‘stick’ approach. But it is something we need to talk about. It is an issue and tens of thousands of workers over the age of 50 face age discrimination every day. Part of educating employers is talking about it. A productive outcome is a job for an older worker.
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Heidi,
“I don’t think she is right, but I don’t think she was being discriminatory”. Well what is it then??
Heidi you are missing the point it is ALL about “Age”. I certainly don’t think we need to stop talking about age and as someone who is an older worker I think we need to talk about it even more.
I don’t think Mia believes she is being ageist and she is probably upset that people think she is, but what she has said previously in her tweets and her comments here tell a different story.
I would have thought you would have been one person who understood this, but obviously you don’t? Sad really
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So I’m a little confused here Heidi. What is your point?
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So Mia, just curious, what it the age of the oldest employee at MM headquarters?
I bet you don’t employ anyone over the age of 45.
Yes you are most defiantly ageist.
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I bet you are wrong – even though the age of the Mamamia employees has little to do with this, our oldest employee is way past 45
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Lana….I’ll bet that you aren’t the oldest employee if that’s the case !
What was that that they said about flattery getting you everywhere ?
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did you mean definitely or defiantly? Different meanings.
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This reaction doesnt surprise me at all. I dont read Anne Summers articles any more because they always leave me feeling really annoyed.
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I will be 50 in three months’ time.
The older I get the more I realise that advancing age is nowhere near as scary as I thought it would be. I’m not slowing down at all and I’m learning new skills every year from colour-blocking to CSS coding.
But oh, the trenchant bigotry and ignorance by younger people who make gross assumptions on everything from my IQ to experiences to abilities and who clearly – CLEARLY – operate from an “I thought of it first” mentality.
I should know, I was once one of those self-entitled princesses who knew it all.
Sorry Mia. I’m tempted to tell you to revisit this topic in twenty years time. I’d love to see how your position has changed in that time. It undoubtably WILL change, but it will surprise and delight you.
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Might I suggest that there is a big difference between 50 and 70 and you should BOTH revisit this in 20 years time. I know my parents (father in particular) have definitely started to notice the difference. And being capable at 70 doesn’t mean starting a job as demanding as POTUS (which could potentially last for 8 years) is necessarily a good idea.
Reagan was absolutely NOT a good example!
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Yes I agree! My mum who is now 80 says she noticed a huge decline in her energy levels after 70. It’s not marginalising older people… it’s just a fact.
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I’ve noticed it with my own parents and parents in law too. Heck, I’ve noticed it in myself!
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I’ll say!
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Doesn’t necessarily follow. My mother is 86 and has a much more active social life than mine.
And I have threatened her with my cooking if she doesn’t stop climbing up on the roof to clean the gutters.
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I think it’s for Hillary to decide whether she feels she can take on one of the most demanding jobs. I believe the number to your age is not really your age, but rather it’s the state of your physical and mental health, and well-being. If Hillary feels that she in such a state where she can take on the job and not go out of her mind or end up in hospital (I definitely hope NOT), then…why not at 69 in 2016? This is something that only each individual can decide what they can cope with and what their limits are. I do hear your point though that the job and all its demands may have left some ex-presidents in poor health and well-being, which I think the discussion may be more about…Should those wanting to take up this job think more carefully whether they will be able to take it on for the long term? Even though you can’t be president forever, you’re looking at long term commitment and so Hillary (like anyone else who may go for president) should seriously consider whether it is best not only for her but also for the country. Health maybe should be one of the things to consider when making that decision.
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I interpret your point Mia as being concern for the physical demands and stamina required for the job. Something that many older people might not have. Neither might obese people, or people with certain illnesses or disabilities.
Therefore, I imagine that what you might be in favour of is some sort of a “test” – for lack of a better word – to determine whether an individual would be up to the job. Something where a person’s physical stamina or endurance is measured, to see whether a minimum standard is reached/maintained. A 65-year-old might score better than a 45-year-old, depending on their physical fitness. At the very least, you make a valid point about a person’s physical capabilities needing to be considered, something which may or may not be negatively impacted by their age.
We know you’re not ageist – as you say, with age comes experience and (usually) wisdom – so perhaps it is “bio-age” that you should be calling for to be considered?
Abraham Lincoln apparently said, “And in the end, it’s not the years in your life that count. It’s the life in your years.”
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I think Hillary has missed her window which is a shame because I think she’d make a fantastic President. Perhaps she could lead for one term? Better than none.
I’d vote for her regardless of her age. But I wouldn’t vote for a second term.
If she thinks she can do it, why not?
I actually really enjoyed this article Mia, made me have a good think about the issue and if it happened in Australian politics what would I do?
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I too am a Hilary fan Mia but I don’t have a problem with her age, I think she can do it all.
The thing that I love about you Mia is you have your opinion but you also respect other people’s right to have theirs and feel no reason to bully those who differ from you. That’s why I read your column and that’s why I frequent your website and that’s why I will continue to do so.
I also agreed and understood what you were getting at with the whole Cadel Evans controversy last year!
Keep doing what you do Mia and don’t let those who are louder and/or ruder make you feel like you should not.
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Get over it. Conservatives cop that and more every day. I think it says more about the sanctimonious Ms Summers than anything else. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn’t make the homophobic/racist/ageist/bigoted or any of the other names that are so freely flung around to shut down debate.
If you believe what you said then stand by it and give Ms Summers the proverbial bird for her righteous attitude. Just remember the lesson though next time others have an opposing opinion to yours.
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“you’re only as old as you feel….”
“age is irrelevant some YOUNG people are less mobile, mentally active etc”
“my great grandmother lived until she was 105 and was AMAZING physically and mentally right until the end…….” (true story!)
Lots of comments like this below but the point is……. Not only is Mia entitled to her opinion (especially in HER opinion column) but she is also not saying EVERY SINGLE PERSON at a certain age would not be capable of being POTUS, she is saying GENERALLY you’d think once you hit a certain age the job’d be tougher…..and I agree with her! But even if I didn’t I am just TOTALLY baffled and confused by the opposing anger and aggressiveness!
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I am not angry or agressive, but what baffles me is that Mia would never dream of discriminating on the basis of religion, gender, race etc but it is ok to disciminate on the basis of age. I find this surprising.
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That’s because race and gender don’t affect you physically. This is a completely different debate.
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Mary,
race, religion and gender are different to age. Like it or not there are certain biological imperatives that come with aging. That’s not discriminatory. It’s biology.
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Mia surely you are kidding??? Why are race, religion and gender discrimination any different to age discrimination.That hole you are digging for yourself just keeps getting deeper
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Margaret, haven’t you noticed physical changes in yourself as you age? And if not, then share your secret.
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I certainly have Lulu, grey hair, lots of extra wrinkles.I can tolerate stressful situations better know than when I was younger, I’m happy to pass on my knowledge to colleagues because I’m not afraid of being over looked for that promotion. I’ve also noticed that my son is taller and stronger than my daughter is and there are people that pray at my place of work .
Should discrimination based on gender and religion be tolerated? Absolutely not it has no place in our society, and neither does age discrimination
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I’ll be passing by the office tomorrow.
Where shall I leave your ladder, Mia ?
Discrimination is discrimination is discrimination. And it is wrong to discriminate for any reason.
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But ageing effects all everyone differently. I don’t believe you can generalise as to who is capable & who is not based on a number.
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Does this mean this type of discrimination should extend to pregnancy? Some women struggle with tiredness, sickness and having to juggle medical appointments, etc – does this mean they should not work or take a menial role where these impacts will not be noticed as much? I’m not sure how the impacts of age you mention differ that markedly from a tough pregnancy.
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Whoa Nada.
I was very specifically talking about whether a 69-74yo was too old to be president of the United States.
How did you join the dots to pregnancy discrimination!
Long bow. Like, sydney – south America long.
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Not a long bow at all – pregnancy is also a biological process. Biology has been used for years as an excuse to marginalise and exclude women.
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Mia we of course defend your right to express your opinion, however we would say that you probably need to have more clarity in how you express them in this instance if you don’t wish the comments to be seen as ageist.. We own Australia’s only job board specifically for the over 45′s jobseekers and we would argue that while you may have been referring to POTUS, that you have again raised the question of age in the workplace. Discrimination our 17,000+ older jobseekers have experienced is commonplace unfortunately and in an ageing population, and an environment where people over the age of 55 do want, or because of finances have, no choice but to continue working, ageism is a very serious problem. We have jobseekers that are extremely well qualified and have been given all sorts of ‘reasons’ for not getting the job once the interviewer realises the age of the person. We have had emails from people so depressed they can’t get a job, no matter what their experience and qualifications, that they are suicidal, so to ask the question at what age do you become a liability is cutting very close to the bone for many jobseekers and workers over the age of 50+ especially. At a time when governments are trying to deal with the ageing population, older workers are trying desperately to sell what they have to employers, when some employers are just putting a toe in the water with the over 55′s (or thinking about it) this statement is, to say the least, not helpful. It’s not a matter of being politically correct, it’s really just about being aware of the ramifications of making these types of statements. I wait for your column on how Mum’s taking 12 months maternity leave may be a liability to the organisation, or how the person who doesn’t speak good English might be a liability to the organisation, or how the young trainee who sits on their iPhone , turns up late and hungover might be a liability to the company. The smoker who has lots of breaks every day, the overweight person who has huge health issues? We could go on and on. It’s not just older people who have a decrease in stamina; who decided that. Many young people who burn the candle at both ends, struggle with work and young children often have decreased stamina when they are constantly tired. While the comments may not have been meant as ageist, they were, and that is most regretful.
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well well well – facts – shock horror – thanks Matt@olderworkers for discussing what is actually happening out there… scary times ahead for the workforce if most people thought like Mia.
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Excellent post, Matt, but a bit hard to read. Could you edit it so there are paragraphs?
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Apologies Sparky, good point. I was concerned about the space, however some paras would have made for easier reading.
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Good points Matt. I foun Mia’s comments a bit like people saying “I’m not racist but….” I have worked in recruitment and found Australian employers shockingly ageist. It is such a pervasive attitude in the workplace and attitudes about after 60 you have to take these factors into account are blatantly ageist.
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I don’t think she’d be too old. Isn’t 69 the new 59? And seriously this is not an old woman…
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Wow 52 States?? Are you sure its not you with Alzheimer’s, Mia??
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Wow LeahB – I made a mistake.
Can you BELIEVE THAT?
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Actually, YES!
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OH YES I CAN!!!!!
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What is your problem?? Does Mia admitting she makes mistakes make you feel good about yourself?
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I think age and health are valid areas of consideration for many jobs, including running countries. You wouldn’t consider a 7 year old for the job, so perhaps you shouldn’t consider a 70 year old. I think it’s time we accepted, as a species, that we can’t do anything we want at any time in our lives. We have become so entitled and believe we should be able to do anything we want – we have our physical limits and we need to accept them.
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Love this comment.
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I agree with you Mia. No one is saying she is too old, but I think it is a question to be asked. They do have a minimum age limit (35) for POTUS so clearly they think age is a relevant factor.
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Mia, I know that tweets are usually flung around without much thought so I don’t think you would have intended the comments to be interpreted in such a serious way. Unfortunately this scrutiny comes with being a public figure so you’ll have to get used to that!
Personally, I don’t think it’s up to you, or anyone else, to be speculating about someone’s ability to do a job based on their age. I understand concerns regarding health as someone ages however, would you have had the same concern if Hilary was 40 but overweight? Being overweight also leads to an array of health problems, including decreased stamina, so consider whether you would feel it to be OK to raise that concern.
I think we all just need to leave it up to Hilary to decide if she actually wants to run. It’s such a long time from now that the whole US political landscape will have changed by 2016 so who knows what will happen. I believe being POTUS is the hardest job in the world so if Hillary decides to run at 69, good for her! I’m sure she would only do so if she felt she was up to the challenge.
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Just regards Hilary – you DO know that she’s already publicly stated that she’s done with politics after this term is finished for her.
And age shouldn’t matter if you pass the medical tests – I don’t know if they have medical standards for a presidency, but they should have if they don’t.
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I think it is too old. Look at Ronald Reagan. Towards the end of his presidency Nancy was doing more presedential duties than him. She could be fine for most of it, but the problem is the government wouldn’t want to to risk the instability a president stepping down due to health problems would cause, so even if she wasn’t up to the job in later years, we’d probably only find out a few decades later.
I wouldn’t want to see her become President. I’m still absolutely disgusted by the revelation that she was spying on UN leaders, a breach of international law. Not suprised, but I still can’t believe she managed to keep her job and that everyone in the Western world just brushed that right off. Beside’s, isn’t everyone sick of all these ‘in the family’ presidencies? Do we really want to see Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama and then another bloody Clinton. I’d like to see some more fresh meat thanks.
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I think you are ignorant. Many of your posts reek of it. Maybe its time to look outside your mainstream rose coloured glasses.
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wow that’s harsh, I totally disagree with this comment.
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Well thanks for your input. Unfortunately, Mia has a knack of writing columns which are incredibly one sided and aimed directly at mainstream audience. Facts, evidence based studies are never at the forefront of her articles so all she does is spread the ignorance around while passing judgement on others.
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“aimed directly at mainstream audience”
And published in News Ltd (previously in Fairfax), whodathunkit.
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Why is mainstream an insult? Another way of looking at it is ‘popular’.
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I think “popular” = lowest common denominator. Hence the success of this website, sorry.
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No need to be sorry Fed up, now we see you’ve included yourself in your definition by the very fact that you’re reading and commenting here too. You are officially one of us!
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My feeling is that if Hilary could hack the campaigning regimen she could hack the job. This is based on my observation that some older people have phenomenal stamina and my extensive study of the demands of an American presidential campaign and those of office via viewing seven seasons of West Wing multiple times. So you know, proper science. It’s a pity Ann Summers chose to respond to Mia so emotionally and at such a low standard of engagement. Name calling really is not OK in discussion. Good on you for calling her out on it.
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While I believe that Mia meant no harm in her comments and it is great that this is up for discussion, I have 2 major areas of concern.
The first is the interchangeable use of the concepts of chronological age and health. I certainly agree that good health is important for a demanding job, but I think this is a seperate issue to age. While it is true that advancing age is significant risk factor for many illnesses, it is merely a risk factor not an absolute correlation. Risk factors also include genetics / family history, gender, diet, BMI, smoking, diabetes etc, and we would not consider making a blanket statement about suitability for a job (even the president!) on the basis of posessing one of these risk factors. The reality is that many older people have outstanding health, and this should be judged on an individual basis.
The second is somewhat subtle, but there is a hint of ageism (I’m sure unintended) in the comment about valuing the contribution of older people contributing to society (by providing wisdom and advice), while also saying that as a group they are not up to the job of running a country. An analogy would be to say (as I believe someone recently did in the public eye) that women provide excellent service as wives and mothers, but aren’t good enough to hold a position of responsibility – I’m sure we all agree that this is incorrect and unfair…
Just some thoughts
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Feel so sorry for you Mia. Being labelled hypocritical, close-minded, blah blah blah. I’m sure all those people putting these “insults” to your name are also guilty of sometimes being these things. I don’t know anyone who isn’t! That’s just human nature. We express stupid opinions and say stupid things but it doesn’t mean you are a bad person or your opinions mean zilch. Human beings are complicated and spontaneous and sometimes it’s hard to explain yourself and your ideas to others, which comes off as being hypocritical. Still think you’re wonderful, Mia – flawed and wonderful as all my family and friends are and enjoy hearing your opinions!
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Im a personal trainer, I train a variety of people between the ages of 29 and 75. My 60 plus year old female clients are educated, experienced, resilient, they have wisdom and they are strong minded. They push themselves, they are self-posessed, confident, physically fit and they basically kick the ass of many of my younger clients. I have a feeling that Hilary Clinton at the age of 69 would do a pretty good job of kicking ass too.
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But Ponykid I hardly think that the women who are seeing a personal trainer are indicative of the vast majority of women or people over 60, do you?
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But Bella I hardly think Hillary Clinton is indicative of the vast majority either. Ponykid is making that point.
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I absolutely agree with you Mia. I think age definitely comes into question, and not just older age. I would question a 69 year old president as much as I would a 29 year old.
A 69 year old would have valuable experience, both life and political, but could potentially have other obstacles facing them, such as health. Meanwhile, a 29 year old could not possibly have as much experience as a 69 year old but would most likely be in better physical condition.
I think it comes down to the individual and how they prove themselves to be a good candidate, but age cannot be ignored. It is part of who they are and will impact on their ability to successfully run a country.
PS: with only 140 characters, it is extremely difficult to articulate an opinion eloquently, so I think we can cut Mia some slack.
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Getting older is inevitable. Age does matter as we are aging everyday! The problem is that while many changes occur to the entire body, a lot of people focus primarily on changes to their appearance as they age. So we don’t really appreciate the internal aging process as much as we should.
Research shows that the brain and lungs are the first organs to start deteriorating. Mental agility and body functions slow down considerably. By the age of 40, some people are already experiencing breathlessness. At age 35, bone loss begins and bones and joints in the body start to creak with every movement, (sorry if I’m scaring anyone). This is why so many people suffer from physical injuries.
The position of presidency is a significant one. Age matters because it determines how we function at different stages in life. So I think Hilary will be too old. Let’s face it, it’s a tough gig running a country.
Also, why are people so sensitive about the topic of age? Could we be in denial? We are not going to have the same levels of energy and youth as we get older and therefore we are limited as we age.
I loved this post Mia!!! xxxxxxx
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