Taylor Swift Made A Fan Comment That Ignited Headlines & Michael Jackson’s Daughter Hates His Movie
First up, what if a movie about a serial killer was actually a meet-cute? A new trailer has dropped for a movie with a premise so unhinged we had to stop scrolling, imagine a beloved horror franchise reimagined as a high-stakes New York rom-com starring an iconic leading lady. Laura has all the details and we are obsessed.
Plus, one of the most anticipated biopics in history has finally hit the box office, but the reaction has been anything but unified. We unpack why the critics and fans are at war and discuss the difficult reality of separating the art from the artist.
And finally, in an extensive new interview, Taylor Swift is officially squashing those rumours of a high-profile industry feud and she has a message for the ‘detectives’ in her fandom. From secret watermarks to her songwriting secrets, we’re looking into the steel boundary she’s just drawn around her personal life.
Watch Taylor Swift's full New York Times interview here.
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Executive Producer: Monisha Iswaran
Audio & Video Producer: Michael Kean
Mamamia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast.
From Mama Mia. Welcome to the Spill your daily pop culture fix. I'm Laura Brednick and I'm nam And on the show today. The new Michael Jackson movie has been dominating the box office, but reviews are very split between critics and fans, and you and I have some very strong thoughts out this that we're going to bring to the podcast, so strap in for that. Plus, Taylor sit has given a very lengthy interview to The New York Times, which is always interesting because one that girl does not need to do interviews. She's doing the most right now she always So we're going to go through the biggest reveals from the interview and what the headlines are saying, because there's lots to unpacked there. But first, I want to tell you about a new movie trailer that came out just late last night. I do believe when I was scrolling in bed ooh yeah.
00:49Speaker 2
Sexy, Like is it like a movie you think I'd enjoy?
00:52Speaker 1
I think you and I will be front and center at the cinema when this comes out, because we love a rom com. This is a new rom com and it's what I've been asking for. It's rom com with like super talented Academy Award winning leads in the movie. Wow, but there's I just want to just the premise kind of made me stop for a second because I hadn't heard about this movie until I saw the trailer, and then I thought, hmm, so the premise is, and tell me if you're into this, the premise is, what if the movie The Purge was a rom com? Do you know what the Purge is? Have you seen The Purge and all the Purge sequels?
01:29Speaker 2
Not the sequels?
01:30Speaker 1
Yeah, stopped one. You're like, I've purged enough? Yeah, that's enough Purge. I try to see all the Purge, like the first Purge, how the Purge started, Let's purchase some more. Those aren't the official titles, but get Purge, Get Purged, Purge and get out of here all the sequels. So if anyone who hasn't seen The Purge, I think I know. Actually what trailer you're talking about? Yeah, I think I saw it. Yeah, it's been bopping around. So can I say the movie isn't officially associated with the Purge? I just made that connection when I saw it. I know what I mean. This is a rom com Urge. It's purgees I'm not against, but I'm I so want to know if someone sat down to watch The Purge and was like, what if this was a meet cute? Which, again, if anyone hasn't seen The Purge, the premise of the film is that in order to stop crime, there's one night of the year in America where the film is set, where all crime is legal for a certain period of time, So no.
02:22Speaker 3
Crime is legal and any other day of the year except for this one night, and it's all crime. So it's a lot of murder, yeah, a lot of breaking and entry, yeah, exactly, very scary exactly.
02:32Speaker 1
So it's like, you want to kill your neighbor, there's a night to do that. You want to stab a X or your current partner, there's a night to do that. You want to launder money, that's fine, and so that's and like it's like, so you either go out and you try and be part of the Purge and like kill people and commit crime, or you stay at home. This new movie One Night Only takes that premise and says, what if there was only one night? It's at New York City because that's where all good rom comms take place. What if there was only one night of the year that pre marital sex was legal for single people.
03:04Speaker 2
By the Catholic Church.
03:06Speaker 1
Oh yeah, the popes are producer. He got together with the Perch team and they're like, let's crack out something beautiful. Let's do a collab. A colass that's so dark. So the premise is that, yeah, you know what, unless you're married, you can't hook up with anyone, no sex of any any kind, except for one day. What would you do? Became a free time. They're gonna have Oh my god, so many hot you take up crocheting and watercolor. Yes, I love that. I'm gonna say every in the background of this movie, you did look super like put together and well rested. I'm like, that's because the nights are free. So the idea is like one night of the year you can go out and hook up with whoever you want. And a lot of people use that in the movie is like their night. Some people just use it as a night for wild sex, which fair enough, and the rest some other people use as a night to like find their soulate because I want to hook up. Well, they get married, so that's the thing. So starring in this movie is Monica Barbara. Do you know who that is? I know who she is. Yeah, she was in that movie. We loved that Timothy Shalla main movie. No, that's me.
04:11Speaker 3
No, but I know her from what was that TV show that I recommended for a week in watch that?
04:17Speaker 1
I don't know, let's start Arnold schwartz Nager. That's a you recommendation and like it was just all action flubah. I can't help you out there, Fuba, I think of Fuber. Yeah, she'snt that. I can't remembe all the incredible work this woman has done. That's what you picked out.
04:32Speaker 2
Yeah, and that's the best thing she's been in.
04:34Speaker 1
Because she was also on top gun Maverick she yees who the girl, the one girl, the one girl.
04:40Speaker 3
Oh and she was like the one who like the only one who made like who had a problem with her playing?
04:44Speaker 1
Yeah, because Tom Cruise is like it has to be the girl. Oh my god, I had not put that together to bear the girl who goes down? Yeah, exactly because I can't play Wow, Tom cruiseher hook up with the Purge producers.
04:55Speaker 2
He'd love this.
04:57Speaker 1
And also a young man by the name of cal who American accent in this. Yes, he does so who some people call mister Juwa Liipa because they're getting married. But also he was in Eternity, which was my favorite movie of last year.
05:11Speaker 3
Which was also an interesting rom com with like a twist and the big take.
05:15Speaker 1
I love that Callum Turner, who everyone's like, no, no, he's a serious British actor. He's now like, you know what I'm gonna do is lead rom coms?
05:22Speaker 3
Yes, and Dully has to do that before he becomes the next Bond for like ten years.
05:27Speaker 1
Yeah, and then he can't do anything else. Also, the cast this movie is so interesting, so my Hawk and Julia Fox is in it and z Way by the way, which is so. But also Molly Ringwold, Oh do you know who that is? Did we talk about her?
05:39Speaker 2
No, I'm thinking of someone else.
05:40Speaker 1
No. Molly Ringwold in the I Believe the eighties was like the rom com like Pretty in Pink, all those kind of rom coms. She was like the leading lady. I'm trying to put it so she's like, no, no, if you saw her red hair, you would know her. She was in every iconic sixteen candles Pretty in Pink.
06:00Speaker 2
Oh yeah, oh my god.
06:03Speaker 1
But she's in this, Yeah, because it's important if you're bringing wrong cooms back that the original rom com girl is in there. Oh my god, she's so she was in the Breakfast Club. Yes, and the Breakfast Club like I name all her iconic a. So basically it's Callum Turner and Monica Babaro and they are bout two singles out on this one nine and they meet, but then a series events prevents them as the movie goes on, from hooking up and having sex. But yeah, yeah, I mean if I had a dollar. But also it's like the clock is ticking. So I was watching this trail like Giving Cinderella. I was watching this trail like a thriller. I was like, what's gonna happen next that's gonna prevent them from and when do they start dying? Yeah? Yeah, exactly. How funny for the end like Seaway comes in or someone Molly Ringworld comes in like an at it's actually in the Purge universe. It's like an easter eg Purge movie where you didn't realize it was part of it. It just gotta be thinking though, like what other horror movies do we need to be wrong comms? Like does someone reimagine? Does someone reimagine? Halloween? Is like, he was just a girl who murdered his sister. She was a babysitter. Oh my god, Halloween night. They come together and the mask comes off. A love story Halloween is there something like or scream. It's like he's calling on the phone, but he's actually calling to tell you he likes you, and that's why he has to disguise his voice. Oh my god. It's like there's all these horror movies like, oh.
07:23Speaker 3
Like The Grudge, but it's actually like a merge of like under the Tuscan Sun. She goes to Japan to find this life and build this new house.
07:34Speaker 1
That's just like a little boy living she has to look after. Sorry, what do I want to watch that movie? Should we write movies? I think we should write movies. She's going past the Grudge House and it's so dark and terrified. She's like, just like I need to rebuild this and then she falls in love with.
07:53Speaker 3
Trying to get rid of it, like everyone keeps dying, and she's like, I need to rebuild this house.
07:57Speaker 1
And it's just a montage of her redoing the house, and then she falls in love with the Grudge Ghost, what's beautiful? I like this well, I love this new thing. We keep saying rom coms need to come back. That's so true, and I think this is how we bring them back. We merged them with horror movies. Let's start a fan fiction. But like for rom com slash horror. Absolutely so one night only. I'm excited.
08:18Speaker 2
It's going to be so good.
08:21Speaker 3
So there is a film that's currently in cinemas right now and we have been seeing a lot of mixed reviews on It's called Michael. I mean, if you listen to the intro, you know what movie I.
08:33Speaker 1
Did give that away.
08:33Speaker 3
It's called Michael, and it's a biography on the life of Michael Jackson. So it covers his rise to fame as being the biggest pop star in history. The film covers his career from the nineteen sixties, starting off with the Jackson five to the late nineteen eighties where he ends on his bad tour like album bad. It wasn't a bad tour. It was a pretty good tour from what I've heard it.
08:57Speaker 1
How do you keepel like clarifying, Yeah, a bad tour and like bad bad.
09:03Speaker 3
Oh man, they're the song The song bad. It has a huge cast. So Michael is played by Jaffa Jackson, who was also Michael's nephew. His dad, Joe Jackson is played by colemen Domingo, Mike mis isn't it, Miles Teller, isn't it? It's a massive, massive cast. We personally haven't seen the film. From what I've heard by people who went to the screening, a lot of people loved this film.
09:27Speaker 1
Yeah, I've been seeing like so many people come to me and tell me about movies they've seen which I love. And so many people have said to me that they loved this movie that they were like, like, you know, crying, they were overcome with emotion. I've seen people posting that they're going to go see it again two times, three times to experience in the cinema. And that's also what the box office is telling us, like it's gone crazy well at the box office. It's become like the highest grossing musical bio pick of all time. Even when the trailer came out over a year ago. It's shattered records for a musical biopic trailer and became one of the most watched trailers in Studio's history. For Lionsgate, which is huge because they've released so many blockbusters. Like the fans are telling us that they're obsessed and like they're willing to pay for three movie tickets, which is crazy at a time when like it's hard to get people into a cinema. Yeah.
10:13Speaker 3
One, and from what I've heard what the actual film is about. It's labeled as a biography, but it is a very fun film. Like I heard, the music is amazing, like Jaffar's portrayal of Michael Jackson is amazing. The hard parts I'm assuming that people are crying at is it does depict the emotional and physical abuse he went as a child by his father that was played by but.
10:38Speaker 1
I think crying from like happiness is what I've seen the music because they love the music and seeing us.
10:44Speaker 3
Yeah, it was also sanctioned by the Michael Jackson estate.
10:49Speaker 1
So the Michael Jackson estate paid for a lot of it, right, well, they paid for the reshoots that had to happen. And then obviously his family is super involved, not just his nephew being in the starring role, but his Michael Jackson son Prince, his executive producer, along with all his brothers. It's only really Paris Jackson, his daughter right that has spoken out against it.
11:08Speaker 3
He has spoken out against it. And also his sister Janet Jackson didn't give the rights to her likeliness in the film either, so her car like there's no Janet Jackson in the film or portrayal of Janet Jackson in the film.
11:20Speaker 1
But what you mentioned.
11:21Speaker 3
Before with the reshoot, so the original script started to be looked through around twenty twenty three, with the film being greenlet in twenty twenty five. Like coming to our screens, it was meant to come to our screens last year, and it's been reported that the original script included a storyline that actually happened in nineteen ninety three. So now this movie finishes in nineteen ninety eight, which is when the tour happened.
11:44Speaker 2
It was actually meant to.
11:45Speaker 3
Continue because included the first child abuse allegations towards Michael Jackson by Jordan Chandler. However, with the settlement that happened in real life, Jackson's estate promised to chan the family that they would not be dramatized them in the events around the allegation. However, the estate didn't tell that to the original filmmakers, So that's why the movie had to be pushed and they had to do all these reshoots that was reported cost around fifty million USD. Yeah, I can imagine, So it was massive, massive, And I think that's also comes with the mixed reviews. So a lot of film and TV critics without including all of the allegations towards Michael Jackson that has happened over years with boys who are now men, the film they're saying is just actually really bad, Like it is a bad portrayal of Michael Jackson, and it just skirts over incidents in his childhood and in his life, and it doesn't go into the nuances that a biography should.
12:43Speaker 1
Yeah, and that's kind of what Paris Jackson was saying in her comments about it, which I thought was so interesting. So the reason that she put up a bunch of statements on her Instagram account is that Coleman Domingo, who's in the film, had given an interview to People magazine and he was saying that Paris had been very supportive and was very warm and was like that she was really on board with the film. And then Paris went on her instrum accounts pretty much as soon as that interview went live, and she said, don't be telling people I was helpful instead of a movie I have zero involvement in, because that is so weird. And then she went on to say that she actually read the first drafts of the script and gave notes about everything, and she says there was so much that was dishonest, didn't sit right, didn't address it. And then she said none of her notes were taken on board, so she moved on with her life. But then she said, it's basically that the film really panders to a very specific section of my dad's fandom. This is what she said that still lives in the fantasy and so they're going to be happy with it. And then she went on to say that these Hollywood buyer picks can be very sugarcoated, and she said the narrative is being controlled, and there's a lot of inaccuracy, and there's a lot of full blow and lies. At the end of the day, doesn't really fly with me. Go enjoy it, do whatever, just leave me out of it. Which out of all the family statements, I was like the fact that his daughter is saying there is full blow and lies in this and it's sugar coated and basically leave me out of it. I tried to stop you. But on the other hand, like Prince, her brother is an executive producer, and also Blanket, Michael Jackson's younger son, who I think goes by b G now, So they were both at the premiere with the wider Jackson family, and I think it was only Janet and Paris who weren't there. So it feels like there's quite a big divide behind the scenes.
14:21Speaker 3
Yeah, And it's like a divide that we've known for years, Like we've known that Janet Jackson in particular has had issue with the Michael Jackson estate and there's always been conflict there. But what was really interesting is that the whole film in itself, when I was reading a lot of the reviews and the critics, it's that it feels like exactly what Paris said in her statement, like it does pander to that particular type of Michael Jackson fan who has just like always been obsessed with him as an artist, with his music, with his documentaries that were about him, and it like reinforced and like the film kind of tells those fans that you're allowed to still love that man, and you shouldn't feel bad for loving him.
15:07Speaker 1
And I also think that's why a lot of people have loved this. It's like they've wanted to gather together in cinemas, in spaces like this where they can stand up together. People have been like dressing like him or dressing in merch they have and going to those like shared spaces to celebrate this music that they love. So I think that that's kind of been a catalyst for people buying multiple tickets. But yeah, it is interesting because with all of the allegations against Michael Jackson, and obviously there's a lot of different layers there because you know, he wasn't found guilty of the allegations, but there were settlements that were made, like as a result of that, there were so many different allegations and it was like there's no way to kind of move around the fact that for a huge chunk of his life and career, that was the dominant story about him. And there's a lot of people who were either the accusers or the accusers families that have really been staunchly kind of speaking about that, and that's kind of like a hard thing to reconcile, going and tort to a movie about someone's life and just cutting off and being like and that's it, and they're just like Michael's.
16:08Speaker 3
Like literally just before the first allegation takes place in nineteen ninety three, the movie just cuts at like nineteen ninety eight, So you're only really living in that initial world. And I think the way they're portraying Michael Jackson is like that's the part of his life. For I guess it's more quote unquote modern fans, Like I would count myself as like a modern fan of his music, Like I only found his music through my parents, so I never really saw that beginning stage of his life with like Jackson five and everything and Thriller. It was more like later in life where I like rediscovered his music. And I think that's like the fan base that they really.
16:45Speaker 1
Want to hone down into. Yeah, that's so as a fan of his music, did you give your tickets away to the premiere because you just felt uncomfortable going knowing that that portion of his life and the accusations and the court cases and everything were left out of it. Yeah.
17:00Speaker 3
I think because we are so lucky to like have this job. I knew a lot about the intricacies of the allegations, and we both do because we reported on it for so many like years. Yeah, and I also knew about like all the nuances within the family as well. And I remember reading about Jenna Jackson and like her issues with the estate as well as Paris Jackson, and like the conflict between her and her brothers as well. And I think all of that just compiled into I don't want to watch something that just celebrates his life because I feel icky about that.
17:36Speaker 1
Yeah, that's interesting. That's why I didn't go as well. And also the twos that's why I didn't see the Michael Jackson musical when it came to Australia. And I was really surprised when I went on clicked on pictures of the opening night and like literally every single person I know was there, Yeah, which is fine, Like I think that was weird, but I was just a bit like, oh, I thought there was a big conversation happening and then everyone was like, no, we just want to go see this by all accounts incredible musical, which is also fine. And the same thing with the movie, Like everyone who's told me that they've gone, I haven't said, like anything along the lines of, oh my gosh, why are you going to that? Like I have I know people have gone to see it twice, and I have no judgment against it. I just felt personally that I felt, Yeah, I also felt a little uncomfortable, and I also knew like it wasn't the kind of movie that we would be doing an in depth review on. Yeah, and that's the case, Like you want to you want to go and watch it. You can't review or speak on something that you haven't seen. So like our conversation here isn't about the quality of the movie, although a lot of like that's the interesting thing is like so many critics are like this is a terrible movie, and fans like this is the greatest movie I've ever seen, and it's like got huge, Like the score on like all the different fan accounts, Rotten Tomatoes and stuff is like it's one of the highest reviewed Bier picks from fans of all time. So no judgment around that. I just I'm just interested of how that part of the conversation just got so completely blocked out. Yeah, because I feel like people who went and saw it and loved it don't want to engage.
18:55Speaker 2
They don't want to.
18:56Speaker 1
Look at it.
18:57Speaker 3
They don't want to acknowledge that it exists, but it very much does exists. Like those five men who brought the allegations against Michael Jackson that happened to them when they were young boys between the ages of seven and twelve are still very much here and yeah, and they're like, I think there's one thing of like not acknowledging an alleged perpetrator and alleged an alleged abuser, but it's so different to overtly celebrate them as well.
19:23Speaker 1
Yeah, that's what I find really uncomfortable. And I've got to say, like, I come from a slightly easier place with this because I'm not a like I like a lot of Michael Jackson music. Like there's a lot of like Billy Jean, that's a bop. The way you make me feel as someone who was raised on center stage, that's a great smoth criminal. But yeah, exactly, Yeah, I mean, you know, I think, listening all the Michael Jackson songs and also like you watch videos of him performing in things, you're like, yeah, he is. He was one of the greatest performers of all time. I don't think anyone is disputing that. Yeah, but also it's not my personal like ride or Die music, like what will, So I'm not grappling with it in the same way it was pretty easy for me to say, like, oh, I might just sit out the musical, I might just sit out the movie. I don't really listen to his music unless it's in a movie or something I love and it comes up, and then I'll listen to it. Like, so I kind of recognize that there's it's a lot harder for people who are like, oh, but I'm a die hard fan, but I also know all these terrible accusations and what do I do with that? Because we all have a version of that, whether it's a movie you loved or like I have TV shows that I loved growing up and it came out that terrible accusations against the people who had made them, like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Yeah, And so you then have to like, that's my version of the Michael Jackson movie where I have to grapple like do I still watch this, do I still talk positively about it? Do I watch other things that have come out? Because there's all these the same thing, unproven accusations, but very strong accusations. Nonetheless. Yeah, And it's that whole thing of how you grapple with what happens when people who are either terrible because it's proven or there's so many allegations it's hard to ignore. What do you do when then they make the art that you love?
20:59Speaker 3
Yeah, one hundred, But I think it's like right to grapple. What I would say is that if you're just completely ignoring it and then just wanting to see the movie, then I think that's wrong. I think it is important to understand like all the parts of a biography that isn't shown, and there's a lot in even Paris. Jackson says that there's a lot that isn't shown, and the fact that there's also like complete lies in it, that's what she alleges. Then you're not actually watching a biography, you're just watching like kind of like I don't know, well, how would you even describe it, Like it's like something that just celebrates someone as.
21:35Speaker 1
Like a fantasy or like a fantasy of the people who but also it's the people from the Michael Jackson state who were like, you know, signing off on the movie controlling it. From my understanding from articles that were in the Hollywood Reporter of funding the reshoots. But also then money comes back into the estate from that, so like when there's a lot of money changing hands and people are profiting off it, like that's when you always have to ask questions because then it's even though I know his family, but it's a business. The Jackson family is a business at the end of the day, more than a family. I think even they would admit to that. And Yeah, the thing that gave me the biggest pause was Paris Jackson's comments, because I was like, if anyone would really know a lot of the ins and outs of this, it's one of his children, his daughter, who was basically saying that she saw the first script, she gave all this feedback. It was ignored. There's people in the movie out there saying that she endorses it. She doesn't. But also then she says, like, if you want to go see it, go see it. Yeah, just leave me out of it.
22:32Speaker 3
But that's so true, Like see it, but see it as a movie, like a film that you just watch at the movies. Don't see it as a biography, because.
22:39Speaker 1
It's almost like it shouldn't have even been a Bypick or anything like that. It's almost like if people wanted to gather together and celebrate the music, which I understand because music is a lot of the time bigger than an artist, especially in this kind of case, like it becomes bigger than them. That it should have just been like a like a concert film. Yeah, like bring all the footage of him performing on these hits together and run it in a cinema so that people can just go in and watch these moments that they love and sing along and where the Michael Jackson themed outfits and do that. But it's almost like they wanted to really control the narrative, but then they ran to the issue whre they're like, oh, we can't actually tell his stories. We've just cut cut.
23:15Speaker 3
And there is an end credit scene that does come up on screen after the movie that says his story continues, So there could be.
23:22Speaker 1
A part two. Well apparently they are exploring a sequel, but I don't know if they can really touch anything because of the legal cases. But there it is Michael's and cinemas now, so I guess people. Yeah, people are really still seeing it. The box office is crazy and no judgment if you did go and see it. Like, I honestly do believe I heard the music's really good, really lot tis the Michael Jackson movie has good music. Good music. Yeah, so no judgment if you didn't see it. But I just think it's interesting to have this conversation and look at both sides of it. So Taylor Swift has given a long video interview to The New York Times, which has been really interesting because she's been slightly out of the limelight recently. She's taken to ground after the release of Life of a show Girl. And well, I mean a lot of that. I guess she's wedding planning, right, Oh yeah, I forgot about that. You're the person in the world sorry said that. Well, apparently the invitations have gone out and I hear get one. Yeah, I think you'll be waiting a while, damn it. But also apparently she's done that trick where, you know, help we get screeners and stuff. It has our name in the background, so if we share it, it's easily traceable back to us. She's done that, apparently the invitations. I don't know if this is true, but it's very clever and it's potentially necessary. So smile.
24:35Speaker 2
I should have done that for my thirtieth birthday.
24:37Speaker 1
You put people's in so she's put people's name in the background. It's too like jetey, like a watermark, but yeah, watermark, so if anyone shares the invitation is easily traceable. But I don't know, because that woman keeps her circle tight, like there's a lot of I believe her when she says, a lot of rumors have never come out, and those stories have never come out because her circle keeps her tight. But also how tired is Travis. He's inviting all his like the whole of the NFL, and they're all bringing like a partner, a plus one or something like that. And she was like, I cannot keep this under out. Maybe only some people got the watermarked invitations and some people to have as aside or gold water. The New York Times asking this exactly what has happened to modern journalism? So you know why they didn't ask it because this was a music interview, and that's why she a music interview.
25:22Speaker 3
They're doing like a series on like thirty of the best music writers in history.
25:26Speaker 1
So it's the thirty greatest living American songwriters. And my title was better snapping Your title was like a watercolor of what the actual title was, and obviously that's why she did it. Because that's the interesting thing about Taylor Swift whenever she does press is that she absolutely does not need to. Like a lot of celebrities, especially now like Doo need That's why these press tours have taken off for movies and albums and TV shows And they're doing stunts and they're eating hot chicken, and they're like getting blindfolded on stage and they're wearing crazy outfits. Is that like there's so much everyone's screaming, even like big movie stuff are screaming for attention for their movies. But taylor'sif is one of the rare celebrities where she doesn't need to do any promo. She did a lot of promo for Life of a Showgirl, but it was more to sort of engage with the audience in a way that she was comfortable with, Like she wanted to sort of share some stories and she was happy. She was chat about engagement.
26:18Speaker 2
And she's like friends with all of the late night hosts.
26:20Speaker 1
Yeah, and she was making bread for people and that was just a fun time. But the thing is she could have just dropped Life of a show Girl and it would have it would have done as well exactly. So that's why when she does an interview, was like, hmm, So this one was centered on songwriting and her career, and I think she thought it was a way too which again very interesting to kind of really talk about about her favorite thing, yeah, which is her process of writing songs.
26:41Speaker 2
This is probably my favorite interview she's done.
26:44Speaker 1
Oh.
26:45Speaker 3
I loved it as well, I think because artists talking about their work is just amazing.
26:49Speaker 1
I would listen to that woman just talk about her songwriting and her process and the way her mind works for hours. It's so interesting to sort of hear how she puts a lyric together, what lyrics from other songwriters she like, kind of admires and files away in her head, how she sort of sees herself, how she looks back on her songs, all those things. So there were a lot of interesting tibits in there. And obviously people have kind of raped through the interview, and all the headlines are the ones that are like anything that might be slightly scandalous or slightly like ooh, who is she talking about? Is what the headlines have come out about. And it's funny because one of the biggest headlines is about her fan habits. I know what you thought about this, but she was talking about, like, you know, her fans loving Easter eggs and hidden moments and things, and she went on to say that she sometimes finds it a little bit weird, and there are corners of her fan base that are going to take things to a really extreme place. And she went on to say there's people out there who are going to do detective work and figure out details and say who is this about? What is this about? And then she said where it gets a little weird for me is that people act like it's a sort of paternity test. They say this song's about this person, and I'm like, that dude didn't write the song. I did. I got.
28:00Speaker 3
I kind of agree with her on that. What I don't agree with her on is when she talks about how her fan base takes things to extreme places, and then she can't control that when they do do that, because I do think you can control that.
28:15Speaker 1
I do, Oh do you think she can she can control it?
28:17Speaker 3
I think she has never told her fans to like back off or to like let go of certain things. I feel like her fans are so intense about her and like the Swifties, I was like, have been so amazing for her career, and it's vice versa, Like I think it is a symbiotic relationship, like even growing. Like my first concert was a Tailor Swift concert.
28:40Speaker 1
I was like twelve when I went.
28:41Speaker 3
To Fairly Yeah, and I love Fearless so much, and like so many of the songs where she wrote when she was like twelve, thirteen, forteen, fifteen, I was like, these are songs, Like she looked in my diary and wrote these songs.
28:56Speaker 1
It's so funny. When she was talking about writing love Story and her parents wouldn't let her go on and date. She was saying this into you and she's like, but he was much older than me, so that's also fair enough. That's just good parenting. And she went in her room and wrote love Story, and I'm like, and I was like, when I went in my room to shut my door, I just cry. Yeah. I was just watching so well around YouTube, just watch a Buffy DVD. I was like, we obviously weren't being productive, No, we were just like feing years.
29:19Speaker 3
But those songs like really had an impact on me. And I can see from that age. If she were to mention or like to allude to who those songs were about before the internet even happened, where we actually had to do detective work. I can imagine me like literally having like a Tumblr page like dedicated to like supporting her and like dissing that man.
29:41Speaker 1
God, you should just do that now and like don't let your age stop.
29:43Speaker 3
Honestly I should, because like that's like it was my whole world, Like that's all I was like thinking about, and that's all I cared about. So I do see like how some fans can do that, like get into a hole and constantly like harp on about like all of these men that they think that she's writing about, And it does get to a point where I do feel sorry for some.
30:03Speaker 1
Of the guys.
30:04Speaker 3
But like she's never ever come out and said, like some other artists do, like stop harassing these people or stop thinking about that. Yeah, so I think when she says she can't control that from happening, I do think she can.
30:15Speaker 1
Yeah, potentially if she, because we've seen her kind of almost do it slightly, Like remember on the Errors tour where she said and it was like she was talking to a bunch of school kids, like you can go outside for lunch if you put your hats on. She was like, I'm gonna play Dear John, Now, don't be I'm paraphrazy. She was like, don't be weird, don't don't go. And she did say like, don't go attacking people. Don't go like try and track people down. Go, don't go saying bad things about people. She's like, this, everything's fine, We're all good. I wrote, I wrote this song. I'm proud of it, so I'm gonna play it, but please everyone be chill was the vibe because what she didn't want was this surge of online attacks with everyone like attacking John Mayer in real time after that had kind of settled down because she played that song.
30:55Speaker 3
Yeah, And it was also like when she played that song, it was like much after she wrote and put that song out. But like, obviously she is like a young woman and that she's been writing songs since she was like twelve years old, so I can imagine like writing a song, hating that man, putting it out, then getting everyone else to hate them to and how good that would feel.
31:14Speaker 1
Yeah, And there's all those soundbites of her when she you know, would do interviews, and they'd say, like, what do you think about men who like don't want to date you because you write bad things about them? And she was like, well, I just think that if men don't want me to write bad songs about them, then they shouldn't do bad things. Yeah, which is so true and also so true and so fair it is. I always think it's interesting for an artist who has built so much of her career around easter eggs, hidden messages, signs, and who actively cashes in on that to such an extent. I do think it's interesting to then be like, oh, but now it's getting a bit weird. It's like lighting a fire and being like, oh, that house burned down, but it's something to do with me. Yeah, And it's like, I know, you lit like a campfire over here, and you didn't mean for the house across the street to burn down, but it did burn down. It's still your fault. It's still your fault.
32:00Speaker 3
What I liked about that interview, though, which I think works really well for her in her career, is when she says that if something slifts, like someone upset to you or like you're going through a really hard time, make art out of it. Don't do an Instagram live.
32:14Speaker 1
Yes, which again is so true because you know what, that's what she does. She puts her money where her mouth is, Like she doesn't go on and like publicly trash people or anything like that.
32:22Speaker 3
And she could yeah, because when you do that, you're also giving away like something that you could have done instead.
32:26Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly. And she was kind of like the art will always be the better option, like creating art is always the better thing. And that's so much of what she does. It's so interesting.
32:34Speaker 2
I wonder what conversation she'd have with Lena Dunham.
32:37Speaker 1
Oh, I wanted to say about so well they do. And you know what's interesting is like in Lena Dunham's new book, Famesick in the acknowledgments, like Taylor sits and then they're really close, but there's no like big stories or like anything in there about Taylor Swift, which a lot of people have pointed out is very interesting because Lena Dunham really bears her soul about her, but other people in her life that she's worked with, that she's friends with in a really in her family in a really extreme way, and then she doesn't write about Taylor Swift.
33:07Speaker 2
Yeah, do you think, And that's an agreement they have between.
33:10Speaker 1
The yeah, I do, I do. I think it is. And everyone's kind of like, oh, so you cannot write about someone who's a huge influence in your life if they're famous enough to be like, you can't do that. I'm not say that in a negative way about either of those women, but it just goes to show that, like, there's so many layers of being friends with someone who's as powerful as Taylor Swift, and that's an interesting dynamic that you have one of the most powerful talked about women in the world who everyone we just want every detail about Taylor Swift, and one of her very close friends is a writer and a creator who is known for bearing her life story and the stories of people around her, and that there's a definitive line for them that potentially she doesn't have with other people. But also she hasn't worked on a TV show with Taylor Swift. Is the other thing when people are like, oh, she just won't talk about Taylor Swift because she's sucking up to her, And I was like, I don think that's true. I think she had to write about like Adam Driver and stuff like that because she was on a TV show with them for many, many, many years, she hasn't done anything public facing like that with Taylor Swift.
34:05Speaker 3
Yeah, and also like if she did write about Taylor Swift, that'll be the one thing that everyone runs with exactly.
34:10Speaker 1
Yeah, but also that that doesn't stop her from writing other things. Yeah. The interesting thing, it's more so that there's like you just when Taylor's sis, you're afraid you just have to walk a more strict line.
34:20Speaker 2
Yeah.
34:21Speaker 1
I think because every single thing that she says or doesn't say is under a microscope, which.
34:25Speaker 3
Would have been in the like friendship agreement fine print before you become friends with her, exactly.
34:30Speaker 1
There's definitely and I mean I don't know if there's a written fine for an agreement, but potentially fast I make one. Yeah, but I think there is something that and that's what kind of seen with the whole Lively situation is that everyone's just like, well, she's broken the agreement of what they had of like not pulling each other into their public stories. And this is the thing is like one little thing of Taylor Swift just ignites this massive conversation. I also thought on the interview that was interesting was when she mentions Jack Antonoff, which there's a lot of headlines around that that Taylor Swift squashes Jack Antonoff feud, which she didn't do. She just mentioned him as a really close friend and collaborator.
35:04Speaker 2
Yeah.
35:04Speaker 1
But why it was interesting is that rumors of a few have been bubbling away because he wasn't involved in the Life of a show Girl. Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot about it. I remember that was a huge thing. Everyone's like they've fallen out. She doesn't want to work with him anymore. And then there was a whole thing where Jack Antonov's white Margaret Qualley was doing movie promo and at the end of the interview on like a live TV show, she was asked about Taylor Swift's music and like she's like, oh, new album's coming out tomorrow, Like what do you think can you tell a tvings She's like, I think everyone's excited to see it. She's like, I don't know. But also like then people like, see, there's definitely.
35:37Speaker 2
A few, but like she hates her.
35:38Speaker 1
Yeah, so it was like she's definitely a few. That's why she panicked. And I was like, I just think that she panicked because she was doing an interview at her movie and all of a sudden she was asked to like disclose information about a Taylor Swifts album, which she rightfully hadn't heard. But she didn't.
35:50Speaker 2
Squash the rumors in this interview though.
35:52Speaker 1
She just basically just spoke truth and just said that he is a longtime friend of collaborator. Well, he squashed the rumors the other day himself, because did did they go out to dinner together? No? I allow that would have been chic. No, she was out to dinner with her dad and a bunch of her friends. But I didn't see Jack and the pat pics you're looking at her da, I think he doesn't. Yeah, I thought was his name Scott Swift, Scott Swift wearing I don't think Jack Anhov leaves his home. No, No, Jack Antonov went on, I think it was Howard Stern and Howard Stone. Howard Sterne's like the one interview and that can just ask any celeb or anything and everyone's like, yeah, let me tell you about that. Yeah, he asked him, Like he's like, Oh, you've got to feel pretty bad being left off the album, and you know, being like, oh, you're just on included in this and Jack is like, no, Taylor and I really good friends, were good collaborators. He's like, you can't collaborate with the same people over and over again. He's like, I would never do that.
36:41Speaker 3
And she's also kind of said that in the interview, and she said that she loves having co writers and collaborators, but she also doesn't need them.
36:48Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly exactly, but it's just it's so interesting, and this interview is thirty minutes of this woman speaking and talking about things that she hasn't touched on as much before and like the things everyone has like really launched onto. Is like she think her fans are weird and she's not fighting with Jack cantonof with a lot of stuff in there, like I thought her even just talking about the All two World ten minute version and how the original was lost and she had to recreate it, or even talking about how like reputation is.
37:14Speaker 3
Yeah, like it became such a big album like years after Yeah, I just put out there and like all the songs that she was saying that people like slept on ready for it.
37:23Speaker 1
Yeah, I was like, oh my god, that was my favorite song on the album. Okay, I felt I always few was a bit stupid in these situations because she was like, yeah, people didn't like reputation and it kind of grew on them, but it hasn't grown as much like there's songs with people. She's basically been like, I know, you guys hate a reputation, but I love it. And I'm always on the back foot of stuff like this because I loved Reputation and it was my favorite album too, me too, And I didn't realize it was like, you know, not a thing with Swifties until the era's to a start and you know, everyone be like did you get tickets? What era are you? And I was like, oh, I guess reputation is my era because I'm like, I'm definitely gonna wear black and a red lip because's what I wear. And people are like, oh, reputation and I was like, oh, I didn't realize that was a thing. It's the same thing when everyone's like, oh, it's like how tailor swift dresses really badly and that's a known fact. And I thought she dresses badly. I thought she looks great. Oh she did for a bit, but now she looks great. Now I think she dresses badly. No, on purpose. I think she dresses badly to make herself relatable. And all the fashion girls are like, yeah's because she just dresses so badly and so on fashionably, And I'm like, from me over here, thinking she looks gress. I don't know about fashion. So we'll link the full interview in our show notes because there's a lot of interesting stuff in there. It's such a good interview. It's so wors a time.
38:29Speaker 3
She's really opinionated in this interview, which I love, Like she doesn't skirt around any answers or anything like that, Like she is really like she comes across very strongness. Thank you so much for listening to the Spill today. If you love this episode, the best way you can support us is by giving us a five star rating and review wherever you're listening or watching us on whatever podcast app you're using, and don't forget we have your weekend viewing Sordid with our weekend Watch episode dropping tomorrow at six am. The Spill is produced by Manitius Warrn't Video production by Michael Keine.
39:01Speaker 1
We will see you tomorrow. Bye bye.