Last night’s television was sobering for anyone with a vagina.
They agreed on one thing: Women hating their bodies is holding them back.
After that, things were messy.
In one corner there was Ashy Bines: fitness guru, Instagram sensation, creator of a 12-week Bikini Body challenge, nominated leader of a cult populated by women with French braids and brightly-patterned activewear.
In the other, Taryn Brumfitt: body image guru, Facebook sensation, creator of a documentary called Embrace which focuses on all the ways that being obsessed with our bodies is screwing up women and damaging their lives.
These women are both exceptionally smart and exceptionally ambitious about the spreading of their message.
They come from the same place: A concern that the way women feel about themselves is deeply, intrinsically entwined with the way they feel about their bodies.
And then their paths drastically diverge.
Because in Ashy's world, the mantra is this: If you don't like it, change it.
Saggy bum? Mum tum? Stop eating that, start doing this. Ashy runs the Booty World Tour to reduce and then pump up women's bums, en masse. She uses her own remarkable body as branding for a movement that is best described as 'Stop whingeing and get off your arse'.
Listen: Mamamia Out Loud discuss the cult of Ashy Bines and fit-shaming.
But over in Taryn's world, the message is: Don't like it? Learn to love it.
Because Taryn, as a woman who has been a competitive body-builder, who has driven her body to the very edge of what it can do and how it can look, knows that for women, perfection is always just out of reach. There's always something else to tweak, to shrink, to define. The impossible standards we hold ourselves to are exactly that - impossible.
Taryn's line? You can either spend your life at war with your body, or you can embrace it.