.
The media has given plenty of attention to parents who don’t immunise their children; indeed we’ve debated it here and here (just do it do it do it).
But what about adults. And teens? Did you know the whooping cough vaccine wears off after 5-7 years?
I found this out the hard way when our eldest son caught whooping cough in the current outbreak going around schools in NSW. In fact the parents of newborns in areas with low vaccination levels have been urged to keep their babies away from shopping centres and large gatherings where they could become infected.
According to a vaccination study released in March by The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (AIHW) only 11% of adults are vaccinated for pertussis (whooping cough). The rate is much higher among parents of newborns as some states like NSW, SA and WA offer a FREE booster shot for new parents, grandparents and carers. As whooping cough is very contagious, 95% of the whole community (adults and children) are required to combat it. So, unless everyone gets boosters on time, herd immunity is always breached.
Why is whooping cough so serious?
The spread of whooping cough has killed seven newborns in the last two years and over 5,500 cases of whooping cough have been reported in NSW so far this year. It can just be an annoying cough for adults and older children but for babies it can sometimes be life threatening. Severity is closely related to a baby’s age. Newborns and premature infants are at greatest risk. Whooping cough in babies can lead to:
- Apnoea (pauses in normal breathing)
- Pneumonia
- Frequent vomiting
- Feeding problems leading to weight loss
- Seizures or brain damage when breathing problems, heart failure or pneumonia interfere with oxygen getting to the brain.
- Very low blood pressure which can lead to failure of other organs.
- Some babies need treatment in hospital and some require treatment in intensive care. Older children don’t usually have life-threatening infections and only rarely require hospitaliasation.
THE SYMPTOMS
- Whooping cough starts like a cold with a blocked or runny nose, sneezing, a mild fever and an occasional cough.
- The cough gets worse and severe bouts of uncontrollable coughing develop. Coughing bouts can be followed by vomiting, choking or taking a big gasping breath which causes a “whooping” sound. The cough can last for many weeks and can be worse at night.
- Some newborns may not cough at all but stop breathing completely and turn blue. Other babies have difficulties feeding or they can choke and gag.
- Older children and adults may just have a mild cough that doesn’t go away. In adults, the cough commonly lasts 5-7 weeks, sometimes longer.
If you missed 60 Minutes this weekend, you can watch the ‘Getting the Point’ story below:
Comments
299 Comments so far
Pingback: A Pile Of Ducks » Vaccination Saves Lives
What a terribly one sides conversation this episode was.. how about offering both sides of the story rather than 6 people all with the same opinion ?
loading...
My 7 year old son has just been diagnosed with whooping cough – even though he is fully vaccinated. His twin brother has come back negative to the bacteria. We had a baby girl 4 months ago who has had two of her vaccinations – as you can imagine I am incredibly stressed about her well being. We are all on a 7 day course of antibiotics and quarantined for the duration. My husband and I were both vaccinated two days after my daughters birth. What makes me so incredibly angry is that the primary school my sons attend has now had 4 confirmed cases (including my son). After challenging the principal about their policy of accepting non-vaccinated children, I was told that it was the Dept. of Education’s policy not to turn away unvaccinated children from the school. I spoke to our central immunisation centre who said that the amount of confirmed (and yes, suspected cases which increases the number at the school) indicates a high level of unvaccinated children. I want to say to those parents who have chosen not to vaccinate their children…while it is your constitutional right not to vaccinate, HOME SCHOOL your children so that those of us who are responsible with our, and other children’s health, can send our children to school without them getting a preventable disease…putting their health and our babies lives at risk!
loading...
Thanks for this article Mia. I hope it gets out there that adults also need regular vaccinations to maintain herd immunity.
loading...
I took my baby to the GP for his 1 week check-up & a little boy in the waiting room came over & touched his head saying “cute baby” etc etc. Our GP phoned us a couple of days later to advise that the little boy had been diagnosed with whooping cough & that we were to bring our baby in at the first sign of any illness!
Being our first baby, we were already quite anxious with our precious new bundle, so with this added scare, we were borderline neurotic.
Needless to say, my whole family then had the vax. No vax, no come near my baby!
loading...
The Health Care Complaints Commission’s findings after a complaint about the AVN and Meryl Dorey:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/51130605/HCCC-Final-Report-Text-seachable
loading...
A Facebook group has been set up to counter the anti-vaccination progaganda from the likes of the AVN. Find us at https://www.facebook.com/stopavn?sk=info
loading...
With every right comes a responsibility. As citizens of Australia we have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity, unless legitimately medically unable to do so. Healthy adults and children can be carriers for disease while remaining completely asymptomatic. You never know when getting that booster will save someone’s life. For the majority of people, the costs associated with getting a vaccine that is not free is either subsidised, or affordable. For those on low-incomes, medications are heavily subsidised or free. For the rest, it’s about prioritising what you spend your money on. I think in regards to whooping cough a little bit of personal responsibility goes a long way.
loading...
Anti-vaxxer’s and their “aruguments” remind me of a a story from a few years ago.
A group came out demanding an extremely dangerous substance to be banned. It was responsible for killing over 1500 children and teenagers every year in the US alone, is extremely corrosive, is present in numerous substances that have been banned in the US, can dramatically change the shape and function of cells and is deadly in amounts as small as the size of a thimble. The substance? Dihydrogen Monoxide, also known as water.
Sure if you look at the risks like that then yeah let’s ban it. But you have to look at ALL the facts and not just the ones that support your argument!
loading...
Please watch the promo video. http://vaccineepidemic.com/
These people are good advocates for why more research needs to be done.
loading...
Oh, give me strength. “Watch the video and then buy the book” ???
Did you even read Christinemedgeek’s post yesterday? If these kind of organisations truly believe in keeping kids safe, then they would give the book out for free for starters.
loading...
Mia, how is Luca going?
loading...
We are one of the lucky ones. My daughter was only 4 weeks old when she developed a cough. Five days later, and three trips to the Dr later, we were flown by the RFDS (we obviously live in the country) to our capital city with a very sick baby. One look at our child and nurses and doctors concurred it was whooping cough, something they see all too much of.
Unlike adults, small babies don’t always ‘whoop’ and cough, our baby had what was termed ‘blue episodes’. This meant every time she needed to cough, she choked and turned blue for a considerable amount of time – many times I thought she was never going to take another breath. And the mucus that comes along with these episodes is like nothing you’ve ever seen – you could stretch it for a metre without it even looking like it was going to break!
Long story short, she was one of the lucky ones and is 5 months old and going strong. The ’100 day cough’ ( as whopping cough is often known) has lasted more than 100 days, and she looks to keep coughing for months maybe years yet.
It has meant my baby can NEVER be out of my sight and must be within hearing, so we can help her through her coughing fits or ‘blue episodes’ (something which has been tricky considering her demanding 3yo brother). Every time she cries, we run to her, because crying leads to coughing. In the early days, feeding also lead to coughing. It would break my heart to know that every time I breastfed my baby it would lead to more pain for her.
I’m not sure where this leaves us. We are healthy people, we take supplements, eat the right food, exercise, rest, and I exclusively breastfed my baby – I’m not sure what else we could have done?
Oh, apart from get myself immunised – as I am 100 per cent sure I gave whooping cough to my baby. When she was only 2 weeks old I had the worst cough – it took a week-long course of antibiotics to get rid of it. Whooping cough was never mentioned. In turn, my 3yo son also got it, but as he was immunised, it was a much less severe case – just an annoying cough really. And out of our family, only 1 person (my baby) is on record as contracting whooping cough. Why, because there is no point in testing when there’s nothing you can do to relieve it.
I now encourage everyone I know to get themselves and their children immunised – while you still have the chance.
loading...
I am a mum of three and also work in the natural therapies field.
I agonised over whether to vaccinate my kids or not. I chose to vaccinate all three. Apart from Hep B at birth. My paedy and OBE challenged me why and I said I didnt think my newborn baby would be going out and sharing needles or engaging in sexual activity, hence I thought the risk was very low. (They actually agreed, all they could say was “its in the community and we are trying to eliminate it” Well so is AIDS, but there is risk minimisation with both those conditions, so I still have no idea why Hep B for newborns is on the schedule. Note: I did get the other Hep B’s I just didnt want to stick a needle in a tiny bub straight from the womb!
Before kids I used to think the choice to vaccinate was being held to our heads like a loaded gun. (Medicare give us a rebate, many schools and childcare centres will not accept un-vaxxed kids – you get bonuses and benefit if you vax, you get cut off if you don’t, everything points you in the vaccination direction) and if you want to find excuses not to, they are everywhere. Vaccines have toxins, its unnatural, big pharma conspiracies autism etc. etc.
Can I just say, please everybody, when you make your choices, don’t be naive. These “childhood illnesses, largely a thing of the past are not trivial conditions. I would rather my child had an allergic reaction, got a sore arm or a fever after a vax, than watch them struggle to breathe and slowly die whilst pertussis toxins overtake their tiny bodies. My child got Whooping Cough at age 2 and I got it last year and I would not wish it upon anybody. And we had “mild” doses. My daughter coughed so hard she had black eyes from burst capillaries. The coughing fits, vomiting and going blue is pure terror to watch. When I had it myself, it feels like choking on oven cleaner, coughing and coughing and not being able to suck a breath in.
To a tiny infant, this is a horrendous way to die. These illlnesses have gone into “remission” for a reason! Vaccination works!
I however, have the utmost respect for the anti-vaxxers who have legitimate reasons not to vaccinate ie. anaphylactic reaction, death, life long permanent disability, brain damage etc. (I think the Autism/Autism Spectrum Disorder Debate still rages, but it has been proven over and over not to be a link. I have had people who are convinced it happened to their own child, but there are just too many variables to make a straightforward link and is a whole other topic so I wont even go there)
I would like to hear from these people, that have had these bad reactions ! Ones where you can establish a direct link! I have heard very little from anybody who has directly been affected. In doing my research, I found benefits of vax outweighed risks over and over again. Even my own anecdotal evidence, benefits of vax outweigh risks.
I do want to pay respect to anti-vaxxers and say that not all are fruit loops or conspiracy theorists. I respect you all for making your own choices, just be careful where you get your info from and make EDUCATED choices.
To all the people who go along and get their kids vaccinated only to have them die or get sick because of the vaccine – I would like to hear about it! If children are dying from vaccines, I would think that we would all like to know about it. To the people that dont vaccinate out of fear that the child will get something/ ie the child is very sensitive or allergy prone, or you are relying on the rest of the population to be vaccinated to keep the diseases under control, I would like to ask you this, how do manage the fear of the risk of contracting for eg. Whooping Cough or Measles and have your child suffer profound disability or death as a result? How does that not change your mind and make you consider vaccinating?
Perception is reality. If you fear reactions, then you will find a hundred reasons not to vaccinate. Just know that these diseases are more real than ever, they are serious and deadly, and there is an epidemic happening near you.
loading...
Incidences of children dying from vaccines are inversely proportional to the size of the media stories reporting it. That is why the media goes ballistic – because it hardly ever happens.
loading...
Anti vaxxers are rarely people who have had reactions and can’t vaccinate. They can, they just don’t. And that is why they cop the vitriol they deserve.
loading...
Although I am young, and a good number of years from being a parent, I’ve always been sure I would vaccinate my children against everything that vaccinations are offered for. I remember my neighbour telling my mum that she wasn’t vaccinated at all (when we were about 12), and I thought it was the most bizarre thing. Why wouldn’t someone want to protect their children from diseases that could needlessly kill them? Why take that risk!
Watching that video made me feel so sorry for the parents of those children, and so completely infuriated by that woman claiming to know anything about the diseases those children died from.
It just saddens me that people believe the hype that those individuals spread, simply because they read it on the internet. Ridiculous.
loading...
I have a 2 year old daughter who is completly vaccinated as I work in the Medical field and see the concequences of not having children vaccinated. My daughter has had whopping cough and if it wasn’t for the vaccine she would have been dead!! I am greatful that she was vaccinated.
The problem we have today with the anti vaccinated people saying all negative stuff about vaccines, But honestly do you really think that if vaccines are that dangerous for our children that they would still give it to them, um no! Second vaccines have gotten rid of the pandemic of Polio and whopping cough like back years ago, the only reason the children from my generation wich I am only 27, was beacuse all the children around the non vaccinated kept them healthy, and now we are expereincing the problem of more and more young children not being vaccinated which is making it all spread and our generation not getting our boosters, this is most important, I wouldn’t care if it cost me $500.00 for the vaccine if it kept my child from being sick I would pay it in a heart beat.
loading...
One of the things most irritating (and I suppose ultimately dangerous) about anti-vax supporters is how many of them are making money out of building businesses around these myths, striking out when others are most vulnerable (parents concerned for their children, the generally unwell etc). Many of them seem to have businesses requiring little or no quals (chiropractors, naturopaths etc) and frankly bring their fields into disrepute.
I’m a little reassured by the number of sensible responses on this website but this area obviously needs continued education. Prior to having children I wasn’t aware of the need for boosters so I think a better ad campaign might be worthwhile for all vaccinations (I note TB seems to be making a comeback too?)
I am a little shocked that unvaccinated children (that is those without a medical reason for being so) are permitted to attend so many schools/child care/group centres. Surely private care centres/schools at least can require their attendees to be vaccinated?
loading...
I went and registered my bub at a childcare the other day, and they demanded her blue book to get her immunisation records.
You know they can still claim the Maternity Immunisation Allowance as “conscientious objectors”? Crazy Town.
loading...
People who don’t vaccinate are irresponsible, selfish & ignorant. If you, or someone you know doesn’t vaccinate have a read of ‘The Panic Virus’ by Seth Mnookin.
loading...
Are you saying those who don’t vaccinate children or themselves? I’ve not had a vaccine shoonion 15 years, and never been that sick. I’m pretty darn healthy and barely around children, though have coo’d and cuddled around a few friend’s kids. I did use to teach dancing and never had a shot then either.
However I’m very much aware that kids are more likely to get sick so will make a point to not be round them when I am. But will I get a shot – no, not really. Can I see any of my other single non-patently getting this shot? Nope!
Not selfish – just can’t see a real reason why.
But I do believe in shots for kids.
loading...
Many of the diseases are contagious before you have symptoms, so you can’t guarantee you won’t pass something on. And what about tetanus – that’s part of the booster – can you be sure you aren’t going to step on a nail ever?
loading...
I had the DPT booster vaccine two days after my son was born. I also made sure that my husband and extended family had it before he was born. After he was born, I limited the public places that I took him until he had the first shot. I was accused of being an over proctective new mother, but end up vidicated a few weeks later when there was a confirmed whooping cough out break in my area. I was told I was over reacting when I told people that there were too many adults that weren’t vaccinated and that it wasn’t as contagious or common as I was saying. I certainly silenced the critics when I showed them to article showing the number of diagnosed cases in the area.
loading...
I asked the midwives at hospital to give me the DPT booster two days after my son was born and it was done within 15 minutes. I also made sure my husband and extended family had it before he was born. Although a lot of people thought I was over reacting (I was supposed to take my new born out to various lunches and other places no matter how inappropriate they were for a baby – I refused), I also limited the contact my son had with people in public areas until he had the first shot. I was vindicated when two weeks after he had his first shot, they confirmed that there was a whooping cough out break in my area. My doctor had been telling me I had made the right decisions all along, but it certainly silenced those who were criticising me as being an “over protective new mother”.
loading...
We will all be getting whooping cough boosters. I get the flu shot every year. I paid for middle By to be immunised with chicken pox which is now free. I felt it was the right thing to do.
Whooping cough is a terrible illness and so easily prevented.
loading...
Why does it have to be free for people to get the vaccine?
My husband and I got the combined flu vaccine after he completed his treatment for cancer.
I paid at least CHF 80 (a bit more in AUD) but I PAID FOR IT TO PROTECT MY HUSBAND FROM MY CONSTANT FLUS.
I paid. I didn’t expect the government to protect me, I chose to protect us.
Don’t wait for the government to pay for it and use that as an excuse. Pay for it and get it done if you need to.
Life is too important to not do it because there is a cost involved.-
loading...
Becauase for starters some people don’t have a spare $60. Also not everybody is educated about or realizes the importance of vaccines and very few undetstands how rhey work on a pooulation staristical level and their worth, these people are understandably less inclined to want to pay for it. But more importantly access to the major immunizations is one of the best public health measures Australia has. In a simple cost to benefit calculations vaccinations are the ‘best buy’. It is a lot cheaper to vaccinate against disease then to treat people (‘free’ treatment in public hospital would cost the government a lot more! As does Bulk billed dr appointments and othe subsidized health entilements. Also the economic impact due decreased productivity if people were constantly Iill with preventable illness) or health is not there priority. In order for your vaccination to mean anything more than just you being immune you need a very high percentage of the population to be immunisised to get herd immunity (this is VITAL to overall disease control and virus control) . J
It definitly doesn’t hurt but just getting yourself protected doesn’t protect your husband from flus outright unless you have herd immunity, it only protects him getting it from you directly which is only one of the many many ways he (or anybody) can develop a virus
So conclusion you SHOULD expect the government to protect you against vaccinable disease because they are the only people that can make it effective by making sure enough people Ie the vast majority of the population get it done. And You SHOULD expect them to pay for it, because we pay taxes as citizens for health care and vaccinations have been proven time and time again to be the most coat efficient public health measure so its a good use of funds. Be grateful for vaccines but do expect them to be free (or at least “free” because they’re paid for by taxes)
loading...
welll put Anon!
loading...
Ouch.
What I was trying to say is that If something is not covered under Medicare and if there is no rebate, I will not use that as an excuse to not protect myself, my husband and my future children.
I will pay for it. I will make sure I look after us no matter what.
And I will make sure I’ll find the money to pay for it and I will make sure I have that spare money hanging around to pay for it. We spend money on other crap these days, how can we not find the spare money to use to protect ourselves medically?
What is more important than health?
loading...
How can anyone watch the footage of those kids and then that pair of Nutty McNuttersons and go along with their crazy theories??? She’s like a crazy version of Ross on Friends, who keeps going “I AM SO a doctor” and everyone else going “Sure, but you’re not a real doctor”! LOL
Some of the utter nonsense that comes out of the anti-vax camp is just amazing. The leader of the AVN a couple of months ago equated getting your kids vaccinated with rape.
There is an article about vaccination by the AVN on http://www.bellybelly.com.au claiming that some vaccine preventable childhood diseases are beneficial against eczema and CANCER (!), among other things. And they are STILL trotting out the ASD/ADHD links.
I emailed bellybelly admin when I first saw this complete lie of an article almost a month ago and haven’t heard back from them, the article is still up. I asked them to either have an article countering the AVN bullshit or at least put a disclaimer on it saying what the AVN are all about, but nothing has been done.
Those who choose not to vaccinate, I really hope you’re not claiming the Maternity Immunisation Allowance, or taking your kids to the doctor when they get sick.
Here’s the bellybelly article. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/baby/question-vaccinations
loading...
Thanks for alerting me to the fact that the Belly belly site has this article, I will no longer visit this website. I find it infuriating that these people (AVN) are getting so much traction in our community, it seems its easy to scare people into belieiving conspiracy theories.
The major problem with this is the danger it poses on our children. I am about to have my 3rd child and feel quite concerned about the increase in whooping cough in our community.
All I can do is try and balance the argument by promoting the facts about groups like the AVN
loading...
I actually didn’t mind the rest of the site, but they’ve lost me with that ridiculous article. And their lack of response.
I know what you mean about worrying – I had my daughter 10 weeks ago, and seeing signs up around the delivery ward talking about a whooping cough epidemic being in full swing was NOT comforting.
This site seems to be a response to the AVN. http://vaccination.org.au/index.php
loading...
Grrrrr. I feel an angry email coming on. Looked at the reference list and most of it was from biased articles/journals. Some werent. I’d love to read the actual articles, or at least the abstracts of those.
Btw ” nutty mcnutterson” love it.
loading...
Don’t hold your breath for a response.
loading...
Does anyone know how much boosters are? I’m 19 so not a new parent or carer, but I hate the thought that I could catch it and pass it on to a newborn or young child if I was out.
loading...
I’d like to stress the importance of the vaccs at age four. Research has found that infants are catching pertussis from older siblings who haven’t gotten the 4yo booster, often due to parents not being up to date with this. Vaccinations are on a schedule for a reason, please don’t leave the booster for a few months or even weeks believing that their initial vaccinations will cover them.
loading...
I am pro-vaccines. My 2 year old son has had all his immunisations to date. Frankly I didn’t even blink. My husband and I got our whooping cough vaccination along with him.
I think we take our health for granted and could all do with a good history lesson, plus a good dose of reality. Around one hundred years ago diseases like tuberculosis and whooping cough killed people all the time in the western world. Children were orphaned due to these horrible diseases and parents lost their beloved little ones at an alarming rate. Search on TB or whooping cough on wiki – one third of the world’s population is thought to be infected with TB today (primarily third world countries). Check out the maps, very sobering.
We are blissfully fortunate to grow up in a society and a time with such good access to medicines and immunisations that we’ve forgotten what it is like to be plagued by these horrible diseases.
Yes, I realise there are risks to the immunisations but when you weigh up the statistical likelihood of these risks compared to the damage these diseases can do…as well as protecting the health of my son, I also felt I had a responsibility to society as a whole to maintain the good standard of health in this country.
I’ve been reminded of this recently – we’ve just had a tough couple of months as my son started day care earlier this year and since then has been picking up every bug known to man. He needs to build up his immunity and he’s getting there – but he’s already been on 3 lots of anti biotics as he’s developed asthma and we just caught the beginnings of pneumonia. I am so thankful for the access to doctors and hospital staff and medicines – 100 years ago if he’d picked up these bugs, he may have gotten a lot worse and one of these illnesses could have been fatal. Sobering.
loading...
Wow…I haven’t the time to read all of the passionate posts here so my apologies if I am repeating any prior sentiments.
I don’t want to sound patronising but I come from a medical science background and I truly believe most of the problems in debates such as the great vaccine debate is that not all of us are armed with being “health literate”. By this I mean as parents we are constantly bombarded by messages from the media on what is right and what is wrong for our children. How are we to know?
Are the so called “studies” that apparently provide evidence in relation to adverse reactions to vaccinations designed in true scientific form. I doubt many people would know how to pick real research from poorly designed studies or worse still fraudulent work, such as the infamous study that sparked all the hysteria around links between childhood vaccination and autism spectral disorders in the first place…….
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AutismNews/autism-vaccines-lancet-retracts-controversial-autism-paper/story?id=9730805
I am strongly pro vaccination and cannot even comprehend why anyone would think it is a healthy choice to not vaccinate their children (unless it is because their information sources are fraught). However, I do think that parents need to make informed decisions on matters that affect their children….I just urge the quacks out there to stop making ridiculous claims and stick to the scientific facts!
We are privileged to be born into a society where we have a choice to provide our children with a healthy life…don’t squander it. I am sure mothers and fathers and carers in developing countries would hang their heads and cry at the thought of this middle class debate!
Herd immunity only works when all are in for the greater good. Those who don’t immunise, you are risking the lives of all our babies. Please sift through the rubbish and find the real facts!
loading...
Oh so very well said!
loading...
Typical response from quacks with ego’s the size of the national debt and a god complex, too boot, not to mention… brainwashed – drug pimps by the pharmacutical cartels who care only for their bottom line.
loading...
Ah, not quite sure what the above post was meant to mean but I don’t think I have an ego the size of the national debt. Oh and a background in med science I have, but without risking sounding egotistical working toward a masters of public health is hardly the domain of the big pharmaceutical drug cartels!
I hope my original post conveyed that I respect parent’s decisions when it comes to our children. However I reject parents being fed rubbish reports such as the one published as sited above which was a huge conflict of
interest which has had a huge influence on this ridiculous public health debate.
However let me disclose that I also have a vested personal interest in this debate. My daughter last year, around the time of her first birthday was falsely diagnosed with Measles. Thank goodness it was not the case but the fury as a mother I had that such diseases are out there today amongst my peers was unfathomable.
So I approach this debate from a medical science perepctive, a pulic health perspective and a mother’s perspective. Sorry if it offends anyone that I like to be sure about such a hugely important decision to be made when it comes to immunisations.
loading...
Having lost a childhood friend to measles, those who do not vaccinate make me angry. Very, very angry. Dying from measles is slow and horrible, not to mention entirely preventable.
When our daughter was born, I emailed all the relatives to ask if they could please get the whooping cough jab. They all did – in fact half of them had done it just days earlier. I was so touched and pleased.
And as someone who hates needles, let me tell you the whopping cough one is a doddle!!
loading...
I would genuinely like to hear from the people who are pro-vaccines – what do you think about the adverse reactions people have to vaccines? Such as: death, autism, ADHD, life long permanent disability, brain damage etc. I understand a lot of people are pro-vaccines but what about all the people who go along and get their kids vaccinated only to have them die or get sick because of the vaccine – what do you say to that/what do you think about that? How does that not change your mind and make you consider not vaccinating?
Please don’t attack me. I am genuinely in two minds about vaccinations and I am trying to decide what to do for myself and my family. Tell me your view but mainly I want to know WHY – (give me solid strong evidence please.)
Also, please don’t say “you are stupid just vaccinate your kids.” That isn’t going to cut it for me, because I am rational & logical & want evidence.
Thank you
loading...
RISK VS BENEFIT
loading...
Statistics Please. Adverse outcomes of vaccination vs. adverse outcomes from non- vaccination.
loading...
Rubbish. You can find these details out for yourself. My kids go to school with 700ish, 1500ish, and 1700ish, so add up the figures and figure it out for yourself. I had a girlfriend who was desperate to have a natural childbirth, but left it too late and the child was born with CP. Do you equate that to immunisation? It’s all about the numbers. I know this sounds rude, but it is my opinion.
loading...
Hi Susan,
Can you please explain what you mean by this?
“I had a girlfriend who was desperate to have a natural childbirth, but left it too late and the child was born with CP.”
I don’t quite follow you.
Thanks
loading...
My point is that, perhaps what some people do is what they feel is best without regarding the outcome of their children. Should you choose not to immunise, there could be a negative outcome. Should you choose a ‘natural birth’ when it is advised that you should not do so, you may also get a negative outcome.
I’m completely pro vaccination and certainly in this conversation, the advice of a Doctor who has more experience than a first time mother. This is not my opinion, but just my experience.
loading...
the majority of the things you have listed show no correlation with vaccination, secondly would you go without wearing a seat belt to ensure it cant strangle you in a car crash?
the lunacy of the anti vacciners is the reliance on hearsay and half truth and the perverted belief that somehow taking a one in a million risk is much worse than inaction that would leave you naked before diseases that have a substantial mortality rate (the probability of contracting such diseases increases exponentially for every fool who fails to vaccinate)
here is some evidence, evidence that antivaccers cant understand because of an enormous deficiency in scientific literacy within their inane community, and when demanding evidence it is a least polite to present evidence for your own beliefs (except obviously antivaccers have no evidence)
loading...
Yes, I think the seatbelt example is a good one. You rarely hear people say these days that they won’t wear a seatbelt for that reason but if you do “my cousin knows someone who died because they were wearing a seatbelt and got trapped” is often trotted out as an excuse (often on US chatboards I’ve noticed). Forget how many people’s lives have been saved because they were wearing one. I think someone people perceive a higher risk of vaccines due to knowing someone who has had, or believes they had, an adverse reaction, and the internet and media reporting of these reactions makes them seem more prevalent than they are. And unlike a seatbelt it’s harder to get the personal stories of why a vaccine saved someone’s life because when they work they don’t get sick in the first place.
loading...
Serious vaccine complications are extremely rare – 1 in hundreds of thousands or millions. Minor complications like local inflammation etc are more common but still reasonable rare – about 10% for some vaccines. No medical procedure is risk free but the risk of not vaccinating is more serious. For example 1 in 15 patients who get diphtheria will die!
The Australian Govt has some really good information on this here…
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/Handbook-quickguides-sideeffects
There is no evidence, none, that vaccines cause autism.
loading...
It it suspected that the link has been formed by many people as the identifying behaviour traits of autism spectrum disorders present themselves around the 12-18 month mark, right when there is vaccinations due on the schedule, so this is where the correlation is drawn easily, ‘my child had his 12 month vaccinations, and then got autism’, that kind of thought process. I guess since so little is known about ASD’s and ADHD type disorders that it leaves the door wide open to simple cause-effect type processing, where it is really not so simple.
I myself get irritated about the ‘studies’ the anti-vaxers trot out in defence of their ‘choice’, and they get quite irritated by me when i punch holes in their logic, and their studies research methods!
I shake my head and marvel at the idea that we are donating vaccinations to thankful third world countries, yet we have one of the best vaccination schedules and protection in the world here, and it is being endangered by parents so called’educated choice’!
In all seriousness, i saw one of these anti-vaxers state on one of their internet posts ‘most children are vaccinated these days anyway, so that means my child is safer, and i don’t have to endanger her by vaccinating’…. !!!! never heard such selfish, thoughtless rubbish..EVER!
loading...
I think anything and everything you do carries with it a risk of some sort. Crossing the road. Catching a plane. Skydiving. Eating out if you have an allergy. Risks are everywhere, and while we should be wary of them, I don’t think you should let them dictate your life or compromise your health. Particularly in situations like this where you need to weigh up the pros and cons.
Obviously there are some people who can not be vaccinated for reasons such as allergies or another condition which means vaccinations carry a greater risk for them. These people are the one’s that need to rely on herd immunity. Some vaccines (such as flu-vax) have had extreme side effects. They have also been removed once the dangers became apparent. Many people think that vaccinations are all about ‘big pharma wanting business’. Well yes, obviously the do need to sell their product. But it’s not good for them if that product turns out to be dangerous. Why would they want a vaccine that does more harm than good?
While I’m definitely pro-vax, I don’t think you’re stupid at all. It’s perfectly reasonable to weigh up the pros and cons when it comes to a decision regarding your children. But remember the autism link has been proved fraudulent, and I wouldn’t rely on much of the information on the AVN website or that of Veira I-Won’t-Even-Bother-Remembering-Her-Last-Name woman. Yes, there is a small chance your child will have an adverse reaction. But there is a bigger chance that if more people start saying no to vaccinations, these preventable diseases will come back. And many of the side effects you listed (such as brain damage and life-long illness) are also side effects of those who survive these illnesses.
loading...
If good hygiene/better nutrition were the only factors involved, as is often spouted by the anti-vaccinators, then ALL diseases spread by hand/mouth/faecal contact would have died out by now – AND THEY HAVEN’T – gastro, hand/foot/mouth – all these milder diseases are spread exactly the same way that the ones we have vaccines for. Kids will always spread slobber and bum pickin’s, unless they swim in dettol all day, and vaccination is the proven way to keep them as safe as possible. THe nasty diseases spread just as quickly as these milder ones – but you don’t see it because the majority are vaccinated. Imagine measles or whooping cough spreading as fast as a gastro outbreak in a childcare centre.
My friend’s nephew died from Hib meningitis 16 years ago before there was a vaccine for it. My own daughter at 3 months old was hospitalised for 3 days with Pneumococcal septicaema – before there was a Pneumococcal vaccine. She recovered and is now a healthy 11 year old, and we count ourselves very lucky. I never wish anyone to have to see their little baby on a drip for a disease that is very preventable.
loading...
You do make some good points here. I am definitely of the opinion that not vaccinating children is a bad idea (i guess…’stupid’ but i hate that word!) but I don’t think it makes the people who make that decision stupid I simply think it means they are misinformed. Very few people think it is beneficial don’t get it done, most people who actively avoid vaccination (different to forgetting!) are doing so because they genuinely believe the vaccination could do them harm – the opposite of a stupid decision?! The PROBLEM here is that belief is based on rumours (yes i deliberately called it that) spread by people who were trying to make money who should have known better. (why do you think this “Research” was published in a book and not a peer reviewed journal?)
There are definite and serious indisputable flaws in the logic in the arguments of people who promote adverse reactions of vaccines. I will explain them to you here the best that I can.
The problem is that these logic arguments require a reasonably high level of scientific and medical knowledge, so most people who start reading material that is disproving the anti-vaccine hype will either not understand them or get bored reading so much dense material and simply stop or not absorb it. In contrast the argument against vaccination is usually present in ways that are trying to convince you of a fact and targeted at non science audience and written in a way that is easy to read and not very complex.
These are just some of the reasons that the anti vaccine hype ANNOYS people like me in the medical field. I’ll try to put it in the simplest way i can – try to stay with me and not succumb to the above paragraph!
I suggest periodical googling! this is largely an explanation of the sciencey jargon explanation on http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/cashing-in-on-fear-the-danger-of-dr-sears/ writtten – book review of a book discrediting dr sears – he like many meddies severely dislikes the book by dr seas
This is a big contributor to the anti vaccine ‘movement’ in america. Dr Sears is the doctor who wrote “the vaccine book : making the right decision for your child”. This is an example of anti vaccine propaganda written purely to cash in on the rise in hype ( I will hopefully convince you why logically his book is BS
)
Dr. Sears is a smart man. He wrote a book that capitalises on the vaccine-fearing, anti-establishment mood of the 2000s. Dr ‘Bob’ is one of the best known paediatricians in the world and also the bane of many other Drs existence because of the misinformation he spread.
Dr. Bob is best known for his best-selling The Vaccine Book: Making the Right Decision for your Child. This book, or at least notes from it, now accompanies many confused and concerned parents to the pediatrician’s office. Parents who have been misled by the onslaught of vaccine misinformation and fear-mongering, feel comforted and supported by the advice of Dr. Sears, who assures parents that there is a safer, more sensible way to vaccinate. He wants parents to make their own “informed” decisions about whether or how to proceed with vaccinating their children, making sure to let them know that if they do choose to vaccinate, he knows the safest way to do it. And for $13.99 (paperback), he’ll share it with them. This is perhaps the first hole in logic. Real medical discoveries are first published in peer reviewed journals not in books. One has to be verified by a strenuous process as true to be published (and accepted by the medical community as ‘fact; and one just has to be written and printed – one way makes no money one way can make a lot – something to consider!
In the final chapter of his book (entitled “What should you do now?”), after reinforcing the common vaccine myths of the day, Dr. Sears presents his readers with “Dr. Bob’s Alternative Vaccine Schedule.” He places this side-by-side with the schedule recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics and the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Without a doubt, the alternative vaccine schedule is among the more damaging aspects of this book. It’s the part that gets brought along to the pediatrician’s office and presented as the the plan going forward for many parents today. Dr. Sears discusses these now common parental concerns, but instead of countering them with sound science, he lets them stand on their own as valid. (WITHOUT EXPLORATION OF SCIENCE WHICH VACCINES ARE BASED ON N IN THE FIRST PLACE)
He points out that most doctors are ill-equipped to discuss vaccines with parents, being poorly trained in the science of vaccine risks and benefits. He then claims to be a newly self-taught vaccine expert (WHAT IS A NEWLY SELF TAUGHT EXPERT?), which is funny if you understand the papers (journal published articles) he ‘claims’ to have read because oft he degree to which he misunderstands the science (sorry theres no way to make them less sciencey) Becaase of his MASSIVE misunderstanding of this (or deliberate avoidance) he downplays the true dangers of the vaccine-preventable diseases he discusses in his book such as polio and tetanus (See below!). He then provides parents with what he views as rational alternatives to the recommended vaccination schedule, a schedule designed by the country’s true authorities on vaccinology, childhood infectious disease, and epidemiology. (THE American Academy of Pediatrics is BASED ON THESE! – so who are his “true” if they are not “the” authorities?)
So what does Dr. Sears have to say, exactly, about the risks of vaccines, and just how out of touch is he with medical science and epidemiology?
VALIDATING THE UNTRUTHS
Public versus individual health
ALot of people are confused by how public health works to protect individual health. For example vaccines, some people feel they are ‘good or the public’ but not for them as an individual. They understand the benefit to society of mass vaccination but are unwilling to risk their kids health with the vaccine ‘risks’. Dr sears capitalises on this and leads parents to believe that certain vaccines protect a community but not an individual child. This is wrong (See below again:P ) but because he is a doctor writing in a book (book > internet) people assume he is intelligent and/or truthful.
He gives polio as an example, stating that the risk of polio is zero, and that therefore the vaccine does not protect the individual child from disease. THIS IS UNTRUE. While new cases of polio no longer arise in the United States – THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE SUCCESS OF THE POLIO VACCINE! (google eradication of polio ). Polio is still alive and well in other parts of the world. As is true for many infectious diseases (POLIO IS ONE OF THESE), In todays society imported cases and potential outbreaks are only a quick airplane flight away – THINK SWINE FLU/AVIAN FLU/BIRD FLU- we might not have it but we can certainly GET it pretty quicky!
The more unvaccinated children we have, the more likely an imported case will lead to larger outbreaks of disease ( because if we were all vaccinated we wouldn’t get infected if we had an ‘imported’ case in australia , but if some people aren’t vaccinated and they come in contact they will be the ones that are infected and will spread this to other vaccinated people – so by being one of the un vaccinated people you are definitely at risk of getting it in this highly likely scenario). So yes, vaccinating protects the individual as well as the community at large – if done properly (ie high % of vaccined people) it will do both completely! THE individual is protected either through immunisation or because if the vast majority of people are immunised they are very unlikely to meet some one who is unimmunised like themselves and also infected.
TO use polio as an example is quite tongue in cheek, as ironically, polio would have been almost eradicated completely from the earth by 2002 had it not been for the propagation of a vaccine myth. In the impoverished Indian state of Uttar Pradesh (which, in the year 2000, accounted for 68% of all polio cases in the world), a myth that the polio vaccination campaign was really a government conspiracy to sterilize children prevented that campaign from accomplishing its true mission of ridding the world of this horrible disease. (Google this for more information as its a little complex)
Of course herd immunity, an epidemiological concept, is of vital importance to public health. We know that Dr. Sears understands at least this much, because HE ADVISES PARENTS WHO ARE FEARFUL OF THE MMR VACCINE NOT TO TELL THEIR NEIGHBOURS , lest too many parents develop similar fears. (If there was real concern of children harm why would he not want everybody to know so he could save the maximal amount of children???? )
He warns that an increasing number of unvaccinated children will result in a resurgence of the disease. THIS IS EXTREMELY CORRECT (BUT PARADOXICALLY THIS IS ALSO WHAT HE IS ENCOURAGING BY THE WRITING OF THIS BOOK AND ITS MESSAGE – IE FLAW IN LOGIC). Enlarging pockets of unimmunized and underimmunized children around the country have already resulted in outbreaks of preventable ‘vaccinabel’ disease. These vaccine-preventable outbreaks are just harbingers of worse outbreaks yet to come, should this trend continue as more and more viruses ‘come back’ – google polio epidemic to see what would occur if polio came back on a larger scale)
Throughout his book Dr. Sears highlights common parental concerns about vaccines. He follows these not with fact-based discussions, but with subtle (and often not so subtle) words of reinforcement. For example, Dr. Sears often downplays the potential danger of vaccine preventable diseases, or the risk of infection for the unimmunized child. The book has SOOOO MANY examples of this but a few good examples by John Snyder (writer of the book)
DTaP
In his chapter on the DTaP vaccine (against diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis), in the “Reasons some people choose not to get this vaccine” section, Dr. Sears states:
In truth, tetanus is not an infant disease…Also, diphtheria is virtually non-existent in the United States. So, one could create a logical argument that a baby could skip the tetanus and diphtheria shots for a few years and be just fine.
TETANUS ID VERY MUCH A DISEASE OF INFANTS AND POTENTIALLY EVERYONE. THERE IS NO AGE BASED DISCRIMINATION. THERE IS A HIGHER RATE OF TETANUS IN ADULTS RATHER THAN CHILDREN BECAUSE ADULTS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE UNIMMUNISED BECAUSE THEY DONT GET A BOOSTER SHOT AT THE RIGHT TIME. CHILDREN IMMUNISATIONS ARE MORE ADVERTISED AND ENCOURAGED AND OFTEN INTEGRATED IN SCHOOL? HARD TO FORGET>. PLEASE GOOGLE CHILDREN TETNUS IMAGES IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN CHILDREN HAVE TETANUS. IT IS SIMPLE MISTRUTHS LIKE THIS WHICH MAKE PEOPLE DOUBT ALL CREDIBILITY OF PEOPLE LIKE THIS.
Basic epidemiology (science of statistics) and history has shown us that when vaccination rates drop sufficiently, outbreaks of seemingly vanquished diseases (anybody fancy a bit of TB?) return with a vengeance. Diphtheria is no exception. In the newly independent states of the former Soviet Union, declining childhood and adult vaccination rates against diphtheria have played a major role in a massive epidemic of that deadly disease. And as we see more and more pockets of unvaccinated children around this country, we are beginning to see the reemergence of horrific vaccine preventable diseases. Recent outbreaks of invasive Hib disease and of measles should remind us how important it is to maintain our herd immunity against these scourges of the not-so-distant past. Of course, Dr. Sears never challenges the unsupported concerns about vaccine risks. (THERE IS NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT BASED ON SCIENTIFIC FACT AGAINST VACCINES TO RAISE!) He simply restates these concerns, and then adds fuel to the fire, supporting the irrational fears that led to this growing trend of underimmunization by spreading mis information such as “tetanus is not a childhood disease”. — > tell this boy that http://immunizebc.ca/sites/default/files/disease-photos/tetanus_boy2.jpg
Epidemiological missteps
Dr. Sears’ understanding of epidemiology and vaccine adverse event surveillance is startlingly poor. He purports to break new ground by doing the first ever statistical vaccine risk-benefit analysis for parents. Unfortunately, his calculations are meaningless as he misunderstands the most basic concepts, like cause-and effect (YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MEANS TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE ANTI VACCINE ARGUMENTS ARE ILLOGICAL – THIS IS WHERE MOST PEOPLE GET BORED AND GIVE UP — DONT!) and he fails to grasp the significance of vaccination rates in determining the likelihood of contracting a vaccine-preventable disease (THIS IS BASIC PROBABILITY WHICH HE WOULD KNOW BUT CHOOSES TO IGNORE – Perhaps to sell books?).
Dr. Sears bases the risk of a child suffering a severe vaccine reaction on his analysis of VAERS data. VAERS (the CDC’s Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System) is a passive surveillance system that everyone (doctors and patients alike) is encouraged to use anytime a vaccination is followed by an adverse event, whether or not they suspect the vaccine is the actual cause of the event. Being an open, voluntary, passive reporting system, VAERS is susceptible to fraud and abuse, as anyone can submit a report. The purpose of the system is to give a very broad look at possible unforeseen events related to vaccination. It is a screening tool, from which trends can be observed, possibly triggering true validated analyses. Raw VAERS data simply cannot be used to analyze the risk of vaccine reactions, because the data does not tell us anything about causality. Despite this, Dr. Sears and others continue to misuse VAERS data, representing it as a true estimate of vaccine adverse events. (THIS DATA IS SKEWED IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE A SIMILAR MEDIUM TO POST IF THEY HAVE HAD A VACCINE WITHOUT AN ADVERSE REACTION – ALSO BECAUSE IT IS ANONYMOUS PEOPLE HAVE NO ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT THEY WRITE AND CAN EASILY LIE OR GET THINGS WRONG AND PRESENT THEM AS FACT – DATA THAT IS NOT VERIFIABLE IS NOT USEFUL FOR STATISTICS AND RESEARCH PURPOSES BECAUSE THERE IS NO GAURANTEE IT IS CORRECT)
FTo quote the CDC,
The purpose of VAERS is to detect possible signals of adverse events associated with vaccines. Additional scientific investigations are almost always required to properly validate signals from VAERS and establish a cause and effect relationship between a vaccine and an adverse event.
IN SPITE OF THIS CLEAR MESSAGE Dr. Sears uses VAERS data to come to the conclusion that “for about every 100,000 doses [of vaccine], one person suffered a severe reaction.” He fails to mention that VAERS data tells us absolutely nothing about the risk of developing a vaccine reaction, severe or not. He then takes this number (WHICH HE FABRICATED _ HOW CAN YOU CALCULATE A RISK FROM ONE VARIABLE? YOU NEED BOTH NUMBERS OF AFFECTED AND UNAFFECTED WHICH HE DOESN”T HAVE!) He also assumes every vaccine dose has the same risk attached to it of creating a severe reaction (WHICH AGAIN IS BASED ON NO SCIENTIFIC REASONING), and determines that a child has a 1/100,000 chance of developing a severe reaction for each vaccine dose he receives. By this inappropriately and misleadingly use of VAERS data, Dr. Sears concludes that,
The risk that any one child will suffer a severe reaction over the entire, twelve-year vaccine schedule is about 1 in 2600. (REMEMBER THIS NUMBER IS BASED ON A FABRICATED NUMBER)
He then calculates that,
The risk of a child having a severe case of a vaccine-preventable disease is about 1 in 600 each year for all childhood diseases grouped together. (SAME AGAIN)
And then asks parents the ultimate question, concluding with an example of his trade-marked, passive-aggressiveness,
Is vaccinating to protect against all these diseases worth the risk of side effects? That’s the million dollar question. (THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE PROPAGANDA TONE OF THESE ‘SCIENTIFIC” cough ARGUMENTS)
Of course, the answer is so overwhelmingly “yes” that it’s difficult to conjure up the energy to respond to Dr. Sears’ misleading analysis let alone question his processes. MOST PEOPLE READING HIS BOOK WILL NOT UNDERSTAND UNIVERSITY LEVEL STATISTICS SO WILL RESPOND TO THE EMOTIVE STATEMENTS WITHOUT SEEING THE FLAW IN THE LOGIC.
Not only does he start his statistical sleight-of-hand by inappropriately using VAERS data, he then calculates the risk of acquiring a vaccine preventable disease using current disease incidence rates. What he doesn’t acknowledge is that those rates are predicated on current vaccination rates. The reason a child today is at low risk for contracting these diseases is precisely because our vaccination rates are so high!
Hib
Dr. Sears fails to mention that, while the incidence of severe invasive Hib disease is currently very low, it was actually common in the pre-vaccine era. In the years before the introduction of the vaccine in 1987, approximately 1 in 200 children below the age of 5 acquired invasive Hib disease. He admits that the vaccine is responsible for keeping the disease at bay, but then states,
“HIB is a bad bug. Fortunately , it’s also a rare bug, so rare that I haven’t seen a single case in ten years…Since the disease is so rare, HIB isn’t the most critical vaccine.”
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF BACKWARDS LOGIC!
Measles
Dr. Sears’ discussion of measles consists of a series of downplayed statements. He describes the rash as one that “can look similar to rashes…of other diseases, so its not easy for a doctor, much less a parent, to recognize.” And he states that the disease is “transmitted like the common cold”. MEASLES IS VERY STRIKING AND VERY HARD TO MISTAKE FOR OTHER ILLNESS IF YOU HAVE MEDICAL TRAINING SO THIS IS SIMPLY UNTRUE And, while it is transmitted by respiratory droplets like the common cold, it seems the sole reason for making this statement is, again, to liken it to other, less dangerous viral infections. WHEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT COLDS SPREAD VERY VERY QUICKLY SO THIS WOULD MAKE IT REALLYL SCARIER IF SUCH A BAD DISEASE SPREAD SO FAST (GOogle measles if you don’t know what happens other than rash)
In answer to his self-posed question “Is measles serious?”, Dr. Sears replies,
Usually not. Most cases, especially in children, pass within a week or so without any trouble. However, approximately 1 in 1000 cases is fatal…Now that measles is rare, many years go by without any fatalities.
He then makes the astoundingly misleading statement,
The possible complications of measles, mumps, or rubella are very similar to the side effect of the vaccines themselves.
Because I can’t fathom he is that ignorant of the facts, I am inclined to believe that Dr. Sears is simply being deceitful.BECAUSE HE IS A DOCTOR HE AOULD KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE WHICH MEANS HE MUST BE PURPOSELY TWISTING LOGIC Here are the facts about the complications of measles:
One in 1000 cases of measles results in encephalitis, with a high rate of permanent neurological complications in those who survive.
Approximately five percent develop pneumonia.
The fatality rate is between one and three per 1000 cases.
Contrary to Dr. Sears’ statement, death is most commonly seen in infants with measles. Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a rare complication of measles infection that occurs years after the illness in approximately 10 of every 100,000 cases.
Here are the facts about complications of the measles vaccine:
It causes fever and a mild rash in 5-15% of recipients.
0.03% will have a febrile seizure – LIKELY DUE TO THE FACT THAT SOME CHILDREN HAVE A PREDISPOSITION TO FEBRILE SEIZURES (HIGH TEMP INDUCED) NOT THE ACTUAL VACCINE ITSELF
One in 10,000 children will have a more serious event following the vaccine, such as a change in alertness, a drop in blood pressure, or a severe allergic reaction.
Approximately 1 in 25,000 cases is associated with an asymptomatic drop in the blood platelet count, which quickly returns to normal without any consequences.
Dr. Sears uses reactions listed in the vaccine package insert as if they are true vaccine side effects.THAT IS SIDE EFFECTS THAT OCCUR THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME – THIS IS NOT TRUE! THINK ABOUT IT, SKIN RASH IS A RISK OF PANADOL USE BUT HOW MANY TIMES HAS THIS HAPPENED WHEN YOU”VE TAKEN PANADOL? THESE THINGS ARE USUALLY RARE
This is similar backward logic as using VAERS data to draw conclusions about vaccine reactions, since THERE IS NO EVIDENCE that any of these are causally related he just assumes. Most side effects listed in package inserts occur at the same rate as background or placebo rates. NEVERTHELESS, Dr. Sears goes out of his way to reinforce parental concerns, even though the facts are right at his fingertips. The section entitled “Reasons some people choose not to get this vaccine”, that occurs at the end of each vaccine discussion, further reinforces parental fears by SIMPLY REINSTATING parental concerns WITH NO ATTEMPT at setting the facts straight.
In a box at the end of his discussion of the hepatitis B vaccine, he does attempt to explain the concept that time coincidence does not imply causality.THIS IS VITAL TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CORRELATION AND CAUSATION
Ironically, he states in this explanation, Parents who have watched helplessly as their child develops neurological problems within weeks of being vaccinated will probably always be 100 percent convinced that the vaccine caused the problems. The fact that neurological complications are listed in the product inserts lends credibility to their case.
And so does Dr. Sears with the insidious, misleading messages he uses in his book. He concludes his discussion of causality with this confused statement,
I’m sure the truth of the matter is somewhere between causality and coincidence. Hopefully someday we will know for sure which side effects are truly vaccine related.
Of course we will never “know for sure” if every report of an extremely rare event following a vaccine is causally related or not. ANY ADVERSE REACTIONS REPORTED ARE MONITORED AND RIGOUROUS SURVEILLANCE IS CONDUCTED. SOUND EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES OCCUR TO ENSURE THAR THERE IS NO EVIDENT CAUSATION.
We continue to monitor trends and conduct rigorous surveillance, and follow that with sound epidemiological studies when concerns arise. This is why we can say, with good confidence, that these vaccines are extremely safe, and that Dr. Sears’ concerns and equivocations are misleading at best.
NOBODY IS DENYING A VERY SMALL % OF CORRELATION BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN ONE CAUSES THE OTHER. for example (yes this is a ridiculous one!) 2 facts for example are 1) Some people have a lot of mice in their house 2)A lot of those people use ant poison. DOES THIS MEAN THAT ANT POISIN IS CAUSING THERE TO BE A LOT OF ANTS? NO! IT IS A SIMILAR THING WITH IMMUNISATION AND SIDE AFFECTS LIKE AUTISM it demonstrates you can have correlation (two things occurring at the same time) that are not both necessarily causation 1)some people have autism 2) a lot of these people have been vaccinatinated —- SEE THTER PARALLEL?
TOXIC SHOTS
Throughout his book, Dr. Sears discusses the common fears concerning vaccine dangers, never correcting when these fears are based on myth or misinformation. Rather, he presents them in a “we just don’t know enough” manner (EVEN WHEN WE DO), or as matters of fact (EVEN WHEN THEY”RE NOT). Dr. Sears raises the concern in his book that the recommended schedule of childhood vaccines may pose a danger. He suggests that we just don’t know if the chemicals contained in the vaccines (which he lists in alarming fashion) may be too great of a burden for the developing child.
Other scary sounding vaccine constituents
In addition to the hot-button concerns discussed above, Dr. Sears highlights a number of other vaccine constituents that “might be of concern to some parents.” In typical style, he doesn’t explain why these concerns are unfounded, but instead makes sure they are listed in alarming fashion so that parents can make there own “informed” decision about whether or not to be concerned. Again, many parents appreciate this approach as one that is non-condescending. What it really is, however, is deceptively lacking in scientific honesty.
Animal and human tissues – Dr. Sears lists items like “cow fetus serum” in the What ingredients are in the vaccine sections of each vaccine he discusses. Because the reader doesn’t realize the absolute lack of importance to this fact (THIS HAS COMPLETELY NO EFFECT OTHER THAN PROVIDING A GOOD SAFE SOLUTE FOR US), he is merely raising the FEELING of danger without truly informing ANYBODY OF ANYTHING. He mentions the issue of potential contamination with prions and the risk of transmitting mad cow disease, EVEN THOUGH SUCH A RICH DOES NOT EXSIST IN THE SLIGHTEST (google transmittance of mad cow) . Dr. Sears discusses the contamination of an early polio vaccine in the 1950′s with SV40, a monkey virus, as an example of the potential dangers of using animal and human cell cultures in vaccine manufacturing, EVEN THOUGH THIS POSED NO RISH AT THAT TIME AND THERE WERE NO BAD CONSEQUENCES IN THIS SITUATION _ HE CAPITALISES ON THE FACT THAT READERS WILL MOST LIKELY NOT KNOW THIS. Here’s the gratuitous, completely uninformative way Dr. Sears concludes his section on Animal and Human Tissues, seemingly meant to shock and invoke fear, all under the guise of just giving the facts:
Formaldehyde- Dr. Sears discusses what he considers to be the toxic properties of formaldehyde – that it’s carcinogenic and causes kidney and genetic damage. He follows this with:
I could not find information on injected formaldehyde. Fortunately, the amount in each vaccine is minuscule. HE FAILS TO MENTION THAT FORMALDEHYDE IS NATURALLY PRESENT IN INFANTS AND MUCH GREATER LEVELS THAN ANY VACCINE THEY RECEIVE AND THAT FORMALDEHYDE HAS NO EVIDENCE OF CARCINOGEN ISIS (Causing cancer) IN ETIHER HUMANS OR ANIMALS (animals injected with extremely large quantities of formaldehyde also fail to develop cancers.)
DR. BOB’S SELECTIVE AND ALTERNATIVE VACCINE SCHEDULES
The final product of The Vaccine Book is the two schedules Dr. Sears proposes for different types of concerned parents. The Selective Schedule is offered to parents who “otherwise would have declined all vaccines”. For this schedule, Dr. Sears chooses vaccines he feels are the most important, because the diseases they protect against are either the most dangerous and/or the most common, and have the least severe potential side effects. The Alternative Schedule (the one I see most commonly) is intended for parents who want to vaccinate, but who have concerns about vaccine safety, a group he correctly describes as “growing in recent years as the media and the internet bring theoretical problems with vaccines to light.” This book, of course, is part of the mass-appeal stream of misinformation contributing to that growing trend.
The Alternative schedule, as explained by Dr. Bob, accomplishes the following:
It spreads out vaccines to give only one aluminum-containing vaccine at a time. This is done so “infants can process the aluminum without it reaching toxic levels”. Really? Can Dr. Sears cite the references for this scientific sounding rationale?
It exposes infants to the chemicals of only two vaccines at a time. Similar to the above anti-scientific rationale, this is done to spread out exposure to “chemicals”, so the infant can process them without risk. In a statement that clearly reveals his lack of scientific understanding, Dr. Sears then states, ” …we don’t know whether this precaution is necessary, but it’s reasonable.” [Reasonable: 1 a: being in accordance with reason b: not extreme or excessive c: moderate, fair d: inexpensive 2 a: having the faculty of reason b: possessing sound judgment ] No matter how you read it, reasonable it isn’t.
It gives at most 2 vaccines at a time to limit potential side effects. Again, Dr. Sears states we don’t know if more simultaneous vaccinations leads to a greater likelihood of side effects, but concludes that it’s “a reasonable precaution.” We actually do know, contrary to very popular belief, that infants can easily handle all of the recommended vaccines, and then some.
It begins with “the most important” vaccines. Dr. Sears would have his readers believe he has come up with a good schedule of vaccination based on giving vaccines that protect against the most serious diseases first. His readers would be better informed if they were told how the AAP/CDC recommended vaccine schedule is designed. How the country’s leading experts on vaccinology, infectious disease, and epidemiology determine which vaccines are most important and when they are best given – balancing when they are most effective at inducing an immune response and when the risk of disease and adverse disease outcome is greatest. Interestingly, the actual order of the real vaccine schedule is the same as Dr. Bob’s.
“It delays shots for diseases that are usually fairly mild for infants”. He gives as examples hepatitis A and rubella. The first dose of both the hepatitis A and rubella vaccines are actually recommended at 12-15 months of age. They are not part of the vaccine series given in the first year of life.
Further,
Dr. Sears’ rationale for delaying rubella vaccine misses the point entirely. Rubella, while usually a mild illness, is not on the vaccine schedule because of the severity of the illness it causes. It is recommended because women infected (usually by children) during the first trimester of pregnancy, have a 50% chance of delivering a baby with severe congenital defects. The vaccine has been successful at nearly eliminated this horrific occurrence.
“It delays the shots for diseases that a baby is extremely unlikely to catch during the first few years of life”. He gives as examples hepatitis B and polio. As discussed earlier, THIS RATIONALE IS BASED ON BACKWARD LOGIC AND NO JUSTIFIED RATIONAL – THE RISK IS LOW BECAUSE VACCINATION RATES ARE HIGH IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE VACCINATION RATE THE RISK INCREASES. THE LOW RISK IS THEREFORE IS NOT A REASON TO NOT VACCINATE,
Babies are at low risk for contracting polio because there is no home grown polio in this country. That is precisely because we vaccinate everyone in infancy. Without a susceptible host, the disease disappears. Unfortunately, because of religious opposition and other myths, the same cannot be said about every area of the world. As a result, we have yet to completely reign in this horrible disease. Although hepatitis B is not common in infancy as long as the infant’s mother is not a carrier (or infected) during pregnancy, it is still a risk. Prior to routine vaccination against hepatitis B, 18,000 children per year were infected. Half of these children did not contract it from their mother at the time of birth. Because the disease can be severe, chronic, and can lead to destruction of the liver or liver cancer, and because it can be spread through casual contact with contaminated objects like toothbrushes, it is recommended that all children get vaccinated as early as possible. Because the vaccine is so safe (it does not cause a hepatitis-like illness as Dr. Sears warns his readers), and it can be transmitted casually (it’s not just a sexually transmitted disease as Dr. Sear states), it is recommended during infancy.
“It gives live-virus vaccines one at a time so that a baby’s immune system can deal with each disease separately”. Here Dr. Sears travels further from science than he does perhaps anywhere in his book. First, he refers to a live virus vaccine as a “disease”. This is either a serious mistake, purposeful deceit, or dangerous ignorance on his part. He discusses the potential dangers of giving the MMR vaccine as a combined vaccine, and recommends separating it into M, M, and R components and spreading them out over time. He then states that
“it’s probably okay to give the combination MMR booster at age 5, when a child’s immune system is more mature [my emphasis].”
First of all, we know the vaccine is effective at invoking a protective immune response when given at the recommended ages (12 months, and 4-6 years). The notion that multiple vaccines can somehow overwhelm an infant’s immune system indicates an absolute lack of understanding of how the immune system responds to vaccines, and is thoroughly refuted by science. I will not go into depth here discussing the enormity of the evidence refuting any causal association between the MMR vaccine and autism, nor discuss the apparent fraud that was perpetrated in the publication of the original paper the made this issue the phenomenon it has become. Others have exhaustively covered that topic. I will say that for Dr. Sears to perpetuate this extremely dangerous myth is deplorable. He has the audacity to pander to the fears of parents by stating,
Splitting the MMR into separate components is thought by some researchers to decrease the risk of autism and other reactions, although medical science has not proven this to be so.
I don’t know to whom he is referring when he writes “some researchers”. I do know (as should Dr. Sears) that there is not one shred of scientific support for the notion that a split MMR confers any benefit over the combination vaccine. It certainly can’t decrease the risk of autism, since the MMR does not cause autism. And there is no scientific evidence that it decreases the risk of any side effects. What it does do is increase the number of shots a child receives, increasing the time, expense, and pain involved. More importantly, it increases the amount of time a child is susceptible to disease. But the most damaging aspect of this kind of deceit, is that it further erodes society’s understanding and trust in science. Tagging the statement, “although medical science has not proven this to be so” at the end, does nothing to exculpate him from this offense.
After explaining his alternative schedule, Dr. Sears cavalierly remarks that if he’s wrong about all of this, the worst case scenario is that “you risk really annoying your doctor because you’re trying to think outside the box.” I’ve just discussed the real harm of this schedule. Applying the positive expression “thinking outside the box” in an effort to cast a positive spin on it is disingenuous. Thinking outside the box can be a good thing in science. But, unless we’re talking about quantum theory, not as a way of understanding science itself.
Dr. Sears claims to listen to parental concerns and to be impartial when it comes to whether or not, or how, to vaccinate. He says that, rather than tell them what to do, he prefers to give parents all the information they need to make their own, informed decisions. But instead of accurately discussing the science for concerned parents, correcting the pervasive vaccine myths and misinformation so prevalent in the media, on-line, and in our communities, he distorts, misinterprets, and misleads. Dr. Sears has either a very poor understanding of how to read the scientific literature, and of the scientific method itself, or he is intentionally misleading his readers. Either explanation indicates an unacceptable and egregious abuse of his public and professional responsibilities. Dr. Sears is not as blatantly anti-vaccine as others. In the beginning of the book he informs his readers that it “is not an anti-vaccine book” (his emphasis), and that other books over-emphasize the dangers of vaccines and do too much to scare parents. This is a nice set-up for the book, allowing parents to believe they are getting the straight, unbiased story from a doctor that really wants to inform. While Dr. Sears’ brand of fear-mongering is more subtle than some, it is at least as dangerous. Because of his family name and public persona, Dr. Bob has become one of the country’s most recognized pediatricians. And his plain language “parents know best” philosophy has attracted the admiration and trust of parents looking for authoritative validation of their fears, concerns, and beliefs. Unfortunately, Dr. Sears is good at repeating and reinforcing common parental fears and anti-vaccine myths, but is quite poor at reading the literature and understanding epidemiology. While he doesn’t overtly tell parents not to vaccinate, he certainly stacks the deck this way. In his discussion of each vaccine, his “reasons to vaccinate” section tends to downplay the risks of the disease. He “balances” this with a section called “reasons some parents choose not to vaccinate”. But I view this as simply his attempt to exculpate himself for being, in reality, an anti-vaccine spokesperson. For all intents and purposes, this gives parents every reason to feel confident that their rationale for not vaccinating is supported by sound reasoning. Dr. Sears rehashes and lends credence to the same debunked myths that have led to these parental fears in the first place, all under the guise of providing parents with “both sides” of the issue. Of course what he does is provide bits and pieces of good information alongside inaccurate and incorrect information, and asks parents to make an “informed” opinion.
With his best-selling book (it currently ranks at #414 on Amazon) Dr. Bob, along with a growing platoon of other prominent anti-vaccine spokespeople, is leading parents into a trap that not only threatens their own children’s health, but the health of the entire nation as well. Already, this anti-scientific group-think has increased the number of children who are under or un-vaccinated, and has resulted in preventable death and disease. I hold Dr. Sears and the many vocal prophets of doom (like Jenny McCarthy, Paul Kirby, Robert Kennedy Jr., JB Handley, and Andrew Wakefield) personally responsible for the increasing prevalence of parental vaccine refusal and the ensuing return of vaccine preventable disease.
I REALISE THIS IS VERY VERY VERY LONG BUT THIS IS JUST ONE BOOK AND JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF THE FLAWS IN LOGIC BEHIND THE ARGUMENT OF ANIT VACCINATION
YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO READ THIS TO INFORM YOUR SELF
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20045099
NB: this is a journal article (peer reviewed/ verifed) not a book or a website – this is the only referential material that is accepted at a medical rlevel because it is the only ‘reliable’ truthful source
If you’ve made it this far congratulations! and i hope i have shown you a little bit of the insane mis logic used in the anti vaccine debates
loading...
thank you!
loading...
Yes, thank you Christinamedgeek for taking the time to put this excellent response up – i urge everyone waivering to please, please read it.
That bit where Sears says”don’t tell your neighbours” – just apalling. Consider the decision not to vaccinate on the basis of morals – the answer to a moral dilemma can be decided if you ask yourself “IF EVERYONE DID IT WOULD IT BE RIGHT?”
loading...
Thank you as well. I agree with vaccination but it is really good to have it confirmed! Thanks for taking the time
loading...
Anonymous it’s totally up to you to decide what to do but please don’t let hype prevent you from making a decision. My son is fully immunised and I didn’t do it without considerable trepadition mainly because of all of the stuff I read about adverse reactions. What convinced me was my lovely brother-in-law who is an obstetrician and has four children who are all fully immunised. When I raised the issue with him he asked me, ‘do you really think I would do anything to harm my own children?’. This is a man who sees disability and death in babies week in, week out and knows how fragile life is. I have now had 3 miscarriages in the last year trying to have another baby and I would still vaccinate again despite the small risks, knowing that if something happened the chance of me having another child is slim. Being part of the network (including adults) that spreads preventable disease or losing a baby to a preventable disease would be devastating.
loading...
The questions are fair except to the extent that you’ve used unsubstantiated conclusions – unless you have actual evidence that vaccination *causes* all those things in your list (evidence not drawn from unqualified people who have loud voices but seemingly no understanding of bio-science or statistics).
Which is not to say there’s no risk at all but here’s the thing… People have died wearing parachutes while others have survived plane crashes without them. Is this an argument that parachutes aren’t worth the risk? Similarly, people have died as a result of seat-belt-caused injury while other people have survived crashes unscathed despite not wearing a seat belt. Again, does this mean seat belts are too risky?
How do you explain to the relatives of the dead and injured that a life-saving device that failed them personally is still a good idea in general? It’s an excellent question with no easy answer and the anti-vax lobby use this conundrum to great effect on people who fear the worst, for whatever reason.
It’s a matter of potential risk versus potential benefit and this means looking at wide-ranging statistics, not individual cases, since you cannot reliably assess individual risk especially when the risks are so small. How would we decide that a seat belt is a good idea for one “normal” person but not another? How do you calculate the risks from vaccination for one healthy child against another? You can’t – yet – but the risks are very small compared to the risks from disease, unless you believe in “the big-pharma conspiracy”.
I could try to persuade you about the evils of seat belts by suggesting they might cause heart and lung disease due to constant pressure on the chest cavity (makes sense if you think about it and it might even be true and I bet I could find corresponding data if I wanted to). This is what the anti-vax lobbyists do with vaccinations and autism and ADHD – they draw simplistic correlations based on small samples and unreliable studies – but it’s not very helpful is it?
loading...
the Lancet is a good souce of information- non biased scientific you only need to reed the conclusion to trials to get the drift- the Lancet helps find the good sources with reliable results.
I personally don’t feel Vaccinations can be worse then the diseases- My generation all got vaccinated and I did not know one person who had adverse events. I did not know of Autism until adulthood. do if we were all ok I feel it can be of minimal harm. But Whooping cough and measles etc can kill you. With so many no being vaccinated the risk is higher. It is a judgement call and I feel if favors vaccination.
loading...
There is no evidence of a causal link between vaccines and ASD or ADHD. Severe allergic reactions can and do happen – rarely. Yes that I in 10,000 is too many when it’s your child, but wild strains have worse outcomes. Off the top of my head I couldn’t say with certainty about brain damage, death or life long disability, but it happens with many of the wild strains. Try these websites:NHMRC, The WHO and the CDC.yes they will be biased, but may provide links to other publications.
loading...
The anti vaxers rely on the fact that most people DO vaccinate, which is the reason why they have been able to get away with not vaccinating for a few years. I bet they wouldn’t be so anti vax if they lived in a third world country where thousands of children die from preventable vaccinatable diseases every day. It seems though that their stance has allowed these diseases to creep back in to our society. The smug antivaxing hippies around my area really make me mad!
loading...
Total First World Problem, Claire. I was thinking exactly the same thing before – I assume they don’t go to the hospital or doctor for anything either…
loading...
Nope we dont rely on ppl who do vaccinate. We choose not to vaccinate because vaccines don’t protect anyone from anything.
loading...
Yes – they – do. Scientific evidence. You are relying on herd immunity – all the vaccinated people around you are the buffer zone that stops the odd non-immune person from spreading it everywhere – the virus/bacterium cannot reproduce in an immune host, and dies out before being able to be spread.
loading...
Um, yes you do. Just because you don’t believe that herd immunity doesn’t exist doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
loading...
Yeppers. It’s called “free riding.” Abominable.
loading...
So, it’s me again. I always have the flu injection, and my kids do too. We keep updated with tenatnus. I wonder why we aren’t offered whooping cough boosters at the same time? I will certainly ask next time, as this is a dreadful, preventable disease that kills young children.
My I re-iterate: RISK VS BENEFIT. I would hate to take the risk of not vaccination, but not receiving the benefit of it too…. herd protection; ie we all need to do it for us all to avoid these completely avoidable diseases. From the small amount of the video I saw, that woman said that we should all ‘benefit’ from these diseases and our immunity would kick in. For me, WRONG. Oh, I didn’t realise how strongly I believed in vaccination, although it was a not really, but still a ‘difficult’ decision for the choice in my first child.
loading...
You can still ask to get the boosters at the four year mark, but I don’t think they are subsidised. The government analyses the cost to benefit ratio of providing free and PBS subsidised vaccines. There are a lot to do, so some things miss out. It doesn’t mean that it’s not a great idea. Similarly to the HPV vaccine, doctors are allowed to give it to boys, but at the moment it’s not free.
loading...
Whooping cough is contained in the same vaccination as tetanus, so if you are keeping up to date with tetanus boosters, you are also up to date with whooping cough boosters (and diphtheria!)
loading...
One view about diseases is that we rely on herd immunity, but has anyone considered relying on good health? Old fashioned good health, sleeping well, good food, proper hygiene, good relationships, getting osteopathic, massage, chiropractic care that boosts health and immunity and an obscure one here, not rushing around all the time which stresses the body and children a lot!? Our health is ours to look after and it supports us by keeping diseases at bay.
The children in my circle who are not immunized have had – count on one hand – far less fever, colds, runny nose, coughs…they seem healthier…is this not strange considering jabbing is supposed to make one healthier???
loading...
Sparkycarolina, I’ve got three kids, and without trying to sound condensending, I’ve got a real life too. After my first baby (labour at 24 weeks) but born at full term after complete bed rest, my OB suggested that I put her into day care so I could concentrate and relax during my next pregnancy. My daughter picked up many head colds, even chicken pox (back then before vaccination), yet she has had a priviledged upbringing with home made food, good friendship groups and lots of anti-bacticial wet-wipes and tissues etc, and has been fully vaccinated. After the initial days of building her immunity, we haven’t looked back. All of my kids get their report cards with perhaps ‘one day off with reason’. They are all resiliant kids who have built their ‘head cold’ immunity through child care and kindy. That’s a zero on the base of whooping cough, measles, german measles, tetanaus etc. Perhaps you need to speak to more people. I felt the way you did too until I realised the risk vs benefit of vaccination.
loading...
Vaccines are not designed to promote general health, they are purely there to provide some protection against specific diseases, that’s why you need so many shots. The unvaccinated children in your “circle” may appear to have less minor illnesses than other children but they are far more vulnerable to serious illnesses and they expose others to a higher risk of transmission.
loading...
You can read through the comments that I certainly believe in your view. Thank you!
loading...
My child is a fully vaccinated child who is in a school with an unusually high proportion of non-vaccinators who are also into the “healthy” behaviours you propose.
I match your anecdotal evidence and raise you some more, because my daughter gets the usual colds per year and has had swine flu, but the unvaccinated children have constantly runny noses and phlegmy chests. They have a higher rate of respiratory illness, and have also had outbreaks of whooping cough, chicken pox, mumps, and other more minor illnesses. They are also susceptible to illnesses brought by recent migrants and visitors that they are not vaccinated against. Including polio etc. They certainly don’t seem healthier to me, and with our world in which they will travel and come into contact with travellers, they are permanently at elevated risk, as well as raising the risks for infants and older people who are more susceptible.
You can eat as healthily as you like, be clean and well-rested, but if the right bug comes along, that makes no difference at all.
loading...
I have never met anyone who has vaccinated themselves or their children and then gone ‘you know what, eat whatever food you want! Let’s never exercise! We’re vaccinated now we can run amok!’
Everyone wants to be as healthy as they possibly could be. Perhaps their actions don’t always reflect this, but I don’t think anyone would vaccinate and then throw healthy living out the window entirely. That’s wonderful that those children appear to be healthy- I wouldn’t wish poor health on anyone, particularly children- but a nose that doesn’t run doesn’t mean they aren’t susceptible to these illnesses. I wouldn’t take a lack of a cough as a guarantee of future health when there is a vaccine available to help protect against, or at least minimise the suffering, caused by debilitating illnesses such as whooping cough.
loading...
I hold my hand on my heart as I read your comments. I buy the best food; my kids have the best education and I completely agree with vaccinations. Even for me, one of my children contracted (I can only assume it was one of my children) a basic childood infection (no vaccination available), that gives them mild cold symtoms, yet gave me a major illness as I had not received this illness as a child. So, I think this reinforces the basic issues that an illnesses a child receives (but I didn’t) can create a major influence on their elders. Image if there were a vaccination for that?!? For the result that this minor illness on a child has achieved a major impact on my life. So: Vaccination: let’s go!
loading...
Thanks Susan, I’m 19 and childless but very (some people think prematurely as I don’t have kids yet) passionate about vaccinations. I definitely don’t think the good fortune of being healthy (up until now) should be used as an argument against vaccinations!
loading...
Jeez, thanks SparklyCarolina, I sure never had thought of all the things you mentioned.
Jabbing doesn’t make you healthier. It makes your body protect itself against the tiny amounts of inactive disease that the vaccines contain.
loading...
Jabbing doesn’t make one healthier it just protects you from contracting the disease it immunises against. Living a healthy lifestyle may help reduce the severity of disease if you get it but it doesn’t matter how healthy you are if you pick up a bug or virus that causes one of these preventable illnesses.
Wouldn’t it be better to get a couple of injections and not pick up these diseases at all than risk picking up the disease and being permanently disabled or dead?
No one suggests getting vaccinated instead of living a healthy lifestyle. The two go hand in hand.
loading...
Could it be maybe they are not in childcare? I know in my mother’s group all of the toddlers are vaccinated. Yet the ones at home or with nannies rarely get colds etc but the ones in childcare are constantly sick?
loading...
I knew a guy who smoked a lot of weed and who repeatedly drove while under the influence of alcohol. He assured me he’d never had an accident. He wondered why there’s so much fuss about drugs and drink-driving when they clearly aren’t a problem – based on his personal experience.
Personal anecdotes are great. You can prove anything with them but “chiropractic”??? Are you serious?
loading...
I didn’t get to watch the whole programme as I have a family to feed and put to bed (state of origin has gotten in the way however). I did feel a little angst putting my darling children through vaccination. BUT I DID IT ANYWAY! My feeling is RISK VS BENEFIT. My husband; last of the family did not receive all of the appropriate vaccinations, and got German Measles in his late 30′s. Problem was, that we had ALL of the family due for Christmas Lunch. We had to ring everybody to make sure that nobody was pregnant. My husband didn’t suffer much (although he looked like a red indian), actually he didn’t suffer at all, but any pregnant women who would have attended could have ended up with sereriously affected children. It is certainly hard to put your kids through the needles, but goodness, research shows that it is an absolute benefit to the community at large. I have a girlfriend who kept putting off vaccination for her last child, who then contracted measles. Who gets measles anymore? Only those not vaccinated. Once again, risk vs benefit and herd protection. My kids have been vaccinated against everything available (one got severe chicken pox before the vaccine, so the others were done ASAP – although I will get them re-done during early adolesence). Cervical cancer vaccine – brilliant, although I do believe that boys should get it too as it appears that they are the carriers. Anyway, you get my point, if it’s available, why not take the advantage of vaccination. Personally, I got phenomenia (sp?) and I have now had the vaccination.
loading...
I stumbled across a really interesting doco called “The Vaccine Wars” on SBS.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/vaccines/view/
It sites lots of statistical data from Japan and Denmark (from memory), for example in Japan, they split MMR but there was no reduction in Autism (some hypothesize that Autism is simply more highly diagnosed/reported in our modern world).
In Denmark they have an incredible data collection system, and have empirical data on the correlation between Autism and immunisation, and there is no correlation.
This really helped me to feel comfortable about my choice to immunise my children.
I had Whooping Cough last winter, and it was horrific.
loading...
The value of vaccinating your child is immeasurable! Perhaps until people have had first hand experience of whooping cough they won’t really understand what it is like…
My 18 month old is fully vaccinated and I had the whooping cough booster when he was born. Even though I have taken all the precautions I could (excluding living like a hermit!) I myself have had whooping cough for the last 2 months, going on 2 and a half months. It is a bloody awful illness. I have no idea how I have contracted it, but I am so grateful that the vaccine has protected my little boy from catching it from me. (I believe that the booster is not as effective in adults as the vaccines are in children). I have really struggled with whooping cough, coughing fits which make it difficult to breathe, sometimes ending in vomiting, thick sticky mucus constantly and nausea. Anti-biotics can decrease the liklihood of passing whooping cough onto others, but they do zilch for making you feel better! Or at least that is my experience- now being on my fifth different class of antibiotic and still feeling poorly.
I can understand now having experienced it myself how children can die from whooping cough. Why risk your child’s life? Vaccinate.
loading...
my SIL is a health practitioner and against vacs, having a heated debate with me about why i shouldn’t immunise (she gave me a book on it which I read) then she had her own bub and got some (not all) of the vaccs!
My friend who is a nurse is against them too (she had rubella twice by accident and now has a rare auto immune disease which she believes is a direct correlation to immunisation.
I did alot of research and both options were terrifying. reactions vs exposure. i like the idea of giving them the vaccs slowly (not all at once).
Another friend is doing her PHD in autism tells me that early detection begins around the age of 1 (usually coinciding with the 12 month vaccs) some would say coincidence, some would say vaccs are to blame.
I decided not to get Hep B for bub at birth (the paed told me they are not immune until complete set of 3 vaccs for it) apparently it was originally given for Indigenous communities and in a effort to appear unbiased decided to give it to all newborns in australia.
I read in Japan they don’t give immunisations until age 2 (i wonder what mortality rates are like for these diseases)
I also read somewhere that high temps and some kind of bacteria or reaction in the gut can make those who are susceptible more prone to autism (perhaps how the wakefield connection was originally made with high temps and vaccs?) anyway sorry for the long-winded posted. I’m all for choice. I find it interesting that anti-vax people want to ram it down your throat, while pro vac people mostly just do it and don’t bother trying to convince the anti-vaxers.
loading...
The Wakefield connection shouldn’t be taken into consideration at all, he used a biased study of 12 children whose parents were friends suing the makers of the MMR vaccine. His study has been retracted.
loading...
And thank you!
loading...
Thank you for reminding people of this. My son has autism and other special needs and it makes my blood boil when people quote this study as an excuse not to vaccinate. Autism is a genetic neurological disorder and it ticks me right off when people say it’s triggered at a certain time by a certain event (PND used to be blamed also saying a detached mother caused it) Our family doctor also split his MMR vaccination over 2 weeks as he had been very unwell to reduce the impact of any reactions he may have had.
loading...
The literature I was given said that the Hep B jab gives them immunity, but if you get the oral doses they aren’t covered until they’ve had all 3 (one in hospital and then 2 following). I went with the jab. She didn’t even flinch.
loading...
Mia, you are a vax crusader and I love it.
Its nice to see the internet filled with pro-vaxers for once. I often think I should get off my bum and create a blog on vaxing (which I won’t bore anyone with) but I suspect the ranty, looney anti vaxers will always generate more hype than generations of scientific evidence.
Now to figure out what to do about my looney non-vaxing in laws when peanut comes along later in the year…
loading...
the problem with the anti-vaxxers is they are often quite adept at using medical or scientific lingo so can sound quite informed.
they also always talk about the side effects of vaccines but always neglect to discuss the side effects of disease (eg. brain damage from chicken pox).
often they have some sort of quasi-qualification too that can make them sound like they know what they are doing.
sometimes a little bit information is very dangerous.
ps. i’d subscribe to your blog!
loading...
you make anti-vax people sound like absolute manipulative morons who happen to luck in on some intelligence “often quite adept” and “can sound quite informed” and top it off with quasi-information!! They are probably adept because they have a point, just like you do.
Sometimes differing views can be right from both sides for reasons that facts support both camps.
loading...
you are quite right, i am yet to meet an anti-vaxxer that does not fit that description, and believe me i have met a few.
mixing scientific terms with nonsense still makes nonsense.
i am not talking about individuals, i am talking about the people like those on 60 minutes or from the AVN.
loading...
A comprehensive read of the AVN blog should lead an open-minded person to conclude that the misrepresentation of statistics therein is deliberate because even when errors are pointed out – repeatedly – the same “errors” are left in place and then often repeated in other articles. Why would someone seeking open and honest discussion not correct their own errors?
Though I admit to being open-minded enough to accept the possibility that the author simply doesn’t understand statistics or medicine and therefore doesn’t understand the corrections being offered.
loading...
I am in my 40′s!! I have three children and am pro-vaccination. I had a chest exray a few years ago (still can’t spell it ‘phenominia’) only to discover that I had chicken pox ‘phenominia’ within my lungs. My mother even now says ‘I wondered why you were sick for so long’. There say I. You can vaccinate against it now!!!
loading...
Do you mean pneumonia?
loading...
I had chickenpox in my mouth and throat when we got it as kids. My brother was the sickest, but I got them inside and my sister had the worst and longest lasting sores. Revolting sickness, don’t know why anyone would want anyone to get it when they can get a jab for it.
loading...
Start the blog. I’d definitely read it too. At the very least it could give some publicity to the need for free boosters for new parents in SA and possibly inspire people to email their local member?
loading...
When one of my best mates had her second child 2 years ago my husband and I plus all her friends who would have contact with bub got the vaccination. I’m so glad we did, because now I’mm pregnant with no #2 and you can’t get it while preggers! Actually, that reminds me, I need to ask all my friends and family to have it done soon…
loading...
I am due in 2 1/2 weeks and am so terrified of whooping cough. My family and my husband’s family have all received the jab. I’ve actually been getting myself so worked up about this… I just can’t believe that people would choose not to have injections to prevent diseases like this (I understand that some people can’t for health reasons). We’re so lucky to live in this country and to have access to these vaccinations. I think it should be compulsory for children to be vaccinated before going to child care or school!
loading...
I am going to book myself in for this booster tomorrow. My sister has a three month old and a two year old.
I recently had the flu shot for the same reason. A friend’s two year old died of flu about 10 years ago, the increased body temperature caused his heart to race and then stop. I also have a friend at work who has secondary cancer who almost died after contracting Swine Flu last year.
It’s not only newborn babies who benefit from healthy people vaccinating to minimise the spread of dangerous diseases.
loading...
As a vaccinated child against pertussis, I too assumed that I was not at risk. However, at the ripe old age of 45 I contracted this vicious illness while on holidays. I wouldn’t wish it on Osama! The uncontrollable coughing, vomiting and evacuation while coughing for 3 months meant I could not leave the house and being unable to draw enough breath at every single fit, which was at least 2-3 times hourly for the first month, was frightening, especially when I would, at times, pass out from the coughing in various parts of the house including banging my head on the bathroom vanity on my way down. Fortunately my husband was home that time. I had to sleep upright for 5 months as lying down just triggered a coughing attack. Incredibly I had just sold the business so was between work because there is absolutely no way I could have worked for at least 4 months. Eighteen months later I have frequent and chronic respiratory issues that didn’t exist before and that I suspect are permanent. I couldn’t even imagine how an infant would survive such a bout – in fact I’m sure they wouldn’t. Do people not understand that the reason we have been the ‘lucky country’ in terms of these insidious diseases is BECAUSE of the almost 100% vaccination rate in previous generations?
loading...
Lindy, please see your doctor and get them to check your lungs. Maybe a scan? They may be able to find a solution to your repeated chest infections.
*Hugs to you*
loading...
60 Minutes’ story was real and horrifying! People can argue til they’re blue in the face on forums like this about whether to vaccinate or not. However NO ONE I know is snuffling or coming near MY newborn (Nov 11) until baby has been fully vaccinated. I don’t care if I have to live like a bloody hermit until my baby completes its vaccinations. If people have had vaccine, I may allow them near me/in my house if they are not showing symptoms of illness. The way I look at it, this is probably my last chance at pregnancy (I’m 42yo) AND You get one chance at life and I will not risk my newborn once they’re born!
loading...
A lot of illness’s are contagious before people get symptoms x
loading...
Just curious, is that for the full 4 years where you will keep people away from your child, or just for the 12 months?
loading...
Anti vaxxers make my blood boil. I’m all for personal choice, but not when your personal choice endangers other people’s lives..
I am a teacher and I firmly believe that it should be compulsory for children to be vaccinated before they are enrolled at school (of course there should be exceptions for any allergies etc to vaccines). If you want to put your child at risk, go ahead, but do not put the lives of other children and babies at risk. What if a teacher was pregnant? What if another student had an infant sibling at home? No one’s personal choice should be allowed to risk the lives of others.
loading...
I couldn’t have said it better myself. I hate when people say ‘I have a right to protect MY CHILD’. Yes of course you do and you should. But you are endangering not only your child but other peoples. We know it is stupid to drink and drive on the roads because you are endagering not only your self but also because you are endagering others. Why is that so hard for the anti-vac people to see??
I think Andrew Wakefield has a lot to answer for but I think it says a lot about the parents who don’t get their kids vaccinated too. They would rather run the risk of serious disease (and possible death) to their own children and other people than have their child get autism-even though the so called ‘link’ between Autism and Vaccines has never been found in any study except in those by Andrew Wakefield.
A brilliant and balanced book to read on this subject is The Panic Virus.
Yes vaccines have caused harm to people but they have saved literally millions of lives from being cut short. We have to think about the great good and the greater good is creating herd immunity.
loading...
I agree. And the govt should stop paying the Maternity Immunisation Allowance to “conscientious objectors”. What a crock that is! Those of us who do it get a small payment for getting our kids immunised, but anti-vaxers can get it as well as a conscientious objector if they submit a note from their doctor saying they’ve had immunisation explained but they choose not to!
loading...
I’m just wondering if child care centres encourage their staff to get the boosters? Can anyone in the field enlighten me.
loading...
The booster is also free for childcare workers in some states, but I’d check with the particular centre for clarification.
loading...
Not in SA. And child care workers earn bugger all so $40 is a lot for a work related expense – one you can’t tax deduct!
Write to SA MPs people!
loading...
Thanks Nicky!
loading...
Anti vaccinationists make me wild. I’m not talking about those who have had a genuine reaction to a vaccine and are now cautious. I’m talking about the Tenpenny followers, conspiracy theorists, science rejectionists, the ones who have “done their research” and decided “vaccines arent for them.” The ones who fear the “toxins” and such. Meredith Collins’ son had an adverse reaction, and she is right to be wary of vaccines in regards to that particular son. Not the others. In fact, those boys SHOULD be vaccinated in order to maintain herd immunity, that will protect her eldest son, who is genuinely contraindicated from receiving vaccines and is at a very real risk of contracting a vaccine preventable disease. For most topics, I am able to be diplomatic, but not vaccination. Vaccination is a passion of mine and I advocate tirelessly to have the message put out there that vaccines are neccessary, life saving facets of modern medicine.
I am going to have some jump all over me about “education” and “sheeple” and their family members’ allergic reaction, and I will say this: I respect a genuine medical contraindication to vaccines and that is all. I DO NOT respect a philosophical objection, not when it costs babies their lives. I have a 3 month old, born 10 months after a full term stillbirth. With a very real Pertussis outbreak at my 5 year old’s school, I have to take drastic measures to ensure my baby is protected. I am constantly terrified whenever I hear a cough. People think I am nutty, but I dont care. Whooping cough kills babies. If an anti vaccinationist’s “philosophical objection” contributes to the illness or death of an innocent baby, that is on their hands forever.
We need to maintain herd immunity to protect the vulnerable members of society. We need to protect our babies. I am up to date on my shots, my husband got vaccinated after our baby was born, and our 5 year old is all good too. Anyone who I KNOW is not vaccinated isnt allowed to see our baby. Close family members all had their TDaP vaccine after our baby was born and I am immensly grateful.
The Vaccinate Your Baby page on Facebook is an excellent source of up to date information regarding vaccines and there are some wonderful dialogues going on.
Tomorrow is vaccination day here!
loading...
GO STEPH! I TOTALLY agree! The people I have done Steiner playgroup with (with my 4 yo), who seem to be the only ones not to vaccinate really didn’t have a strong arguement, considering that death is an option once babies contract this illness! Well said.
loading...
How can you place the responsibility for your child’s health on other people? Calling anti-vaxxers murderers is a bit extreme. I don’t understand that at all.
Do you think people with philosophical objections are monsters who don’t care about their or your child? There are people with different religious and moral views who have a different reality to you. That doesn’t make them murderers or monsters, it makes them different, that is all. Just because you believe the science is irrefutable does not mean that it is.
You must be so anxious after losing a baby, I can understand that totally. But no one else can take away every danger to your baby, no one else can take away your anxiety.
loading...
Your reference to religion is very apt since the anti-vax lobby operates on religious zeal as opposed to evidence. They are indeed just another religious cult.
No one has a different reality. Reality is reality, no matter what you think about it. Believing whooping cough is a divine gift from the wellness pixies does not make it so – nor does believing that it can be cured by chanting over crystals while feeding the baby sugar pills.
Believing the risk of vaccinating is greater than the risk of disease, does not make it so. The relative risks are as they are, regardless of your personal view of reality.
loading...
I didnt call anti vaxxers murderers. That’s a harsh call. However, for someone to have a philosophical exemption in place that can cause babies to die…THAT’S the reality.
How can I place the responsibility for my child’s health on other people? Easily. Herd immunity. Vaccination is not a matter of choice, it isnt “personal.” It is a social responsibility. It is a community health issue. If you dont vaccinate, you contract pertussis and pass it to my newborn baby in line at the bank, for example, then his illness IS your responsibility. Whooping Cough, like many VPD’s, is most contagious during the asymptomatic stage. That’s what’s so terrifying. And because of anti vaxxers, and as a result of a raging Whooping Cough epidemic, I am pretty much housebound with my baby. If we do go out, he is covered in a pram and doesnt come out. Ever. That’s not anxiety, that’s the reality of this insidious disease right now. How unfair that I have to be so excessively careful and restrictive of visitors, because of someone else’s “philosophy.”
loading...
Anti-vaxers place responsibility on those who are vaccinated by herd immunity.
You have your rights, but the fact that rights come with responsibilities seems to be lost.
loading...
Steph, I remember your comments from the last vaccination post and agree with you whole heartedly. Good luck with your new bub.
loading...
Wow Amy! I cant even remember what I wrote back then :0)
loading...
Well I did only read it again a few weeks ago when I was researching the topic, and I remembered you because I was nodding emphatically throughout your comments and cause you were getting close to your due date. My memories not that good unfortunately! I’m glad to hear everything’s ok with the baby, good on you for being so protective of the little one. I can’t imagine how you’d be feeling about the whooping cough outbreak, seeing how bad it is in adults my heart just breaks for the children that have to go through it. You sound like a wonderful mum.
loading...
I watched sixty minutes the other night and to be honest, I just wanted to jump through the tv and slap that pretend doctor for the rubbish she was sprouting!
We have the ability to prevent these diseases and we should be doing so. Yes a very small number of individuals experience a reaction, but many more people die from the diseases themselves. To not vaccinate without good reason but purely on the basis of research such as Wakefields and anecdotal evidence from alternative health practitioners is irresponsible IMO.
loading...
By her own admission that ‘pretend Doctor’ was not a certified nor qualified medical practictioner… and yes, I think we all would have lined up to ‘slap’ her!!
loading...
Whooping cough vaccination is only free for ‘parents, grandparents and people who work with children’ – which completely excludes ‘unrelated aunties’ who babysit their friends’ kids regularly. For us, it’s $45 even if we will never fall into one of those other categories. Thank-you Government – again, Singles cop the backhand of your ‘Working Families’ mantra.
I also discovered that the whooping cough vaccine is only available as a combo with DTP and the tetanus part of it is known to be more painful and cause reactions more than some others. My family consistently has severe reactions to vaccines (seizures – and for one brother, long-term epilepsy!) – thankfully, this time I only scored a bad case of welts over my arm and severe pain (3 weeks on and it still hasn’t cleared up).
Still, I weighed it up, and the chance of me having seizures or epilepsy was a risk I was willing to take to protect my newborn ‘nephew’. I have also had whooping cough as a teenager so I know what it’s like – apparently immunity from the disease only lasts around 10 years so I took a calculated risk.
I dislike the vitriol against people who are careful about immunisations. Some of us really do have solid, consistent medical evidence across the family that gives us good reason to worry about immunisations. I hope that our community gives us the room to make thoughtful choices and weigh up the costs to ourselves and others (e.g. before this injection, I wouldn’t have gone too close to other people’s babies or kids or gone out while sick knowing I wasn’t ‘covered’ by an immunisation).
For my brother who has had the worst reactions (teen onset epilepsy after DTP booster), working in the medical field meant lots of immunisations. After several seizures after injections, his clever GP figured out that breaking it into small doses (e.g. delivering DTP in 8 smaller shots) didn’t trigger a reaction. Like other people have said, for some of us, our bodies just don’t handle the toxins at all.
My points are a) the govt rules aren’t entirely supportive of general immunisation and b) some of us really have genuine, proven problems from immunisations – it’s not about laziness, paranoia or not caring about others, which is how I felt the 60 Minutes story was portraying people like me. It’s not black and white and I wish there were more options that took a more gentle practice with people who have reason to be nervous about immunisation. They’re never really going to be able to do scientifically conclusive tests to prove how badly immunisations can affect some people just because of how bad it really is for us.
loading...
Love your pic Jane! I just got the box set and loooooooving it!
I agree with you re: vitriol against people don’t take every vaccination on offer – personally, I often get a bad reaction to vaccines (headaches/nausea) so I won’t have vaccinations for diseases that won’t kill me – flu, whopping pox, chicken pox et al.
loading...
Whooping cough may not kill you, but it amy kill those that are vulnerable.
loading...
Whooping cough does, tragically, kill a few people each year – however, in nearly all cases those people have severely compromised immune systems and will be extremely vulnerable to any infectious illness (including those for which there is no vaccine).
loading...
I think the point being made is that your decision not to vaccinate potentially increases the risk for those very people, especially those who can’t be vaccinated themselves.
loading...
And that is okay?
What if it was your loved one with auto-immune disease, cancer, on immune-suppression etc?
It’s okay because their health system is comprimised anyway?
Go into a cancer or transplant ward and then tell me it’s okay because they are immune comprimised anyway.
loading...
Sigh. I didn’t say it was okay. But the risks posed by say, pneumonia and related illness, and drug resistant viruses are infinitely greater.
Clearly an unpopular view, but there does seem to be a great deal of panic (and media attention) concerning vaccinations, and while these are undeniable important, there are plenty of other “greater good” health measures that could reduce deaths (such as learning about antibiotic immunity – golden staph, for example, can be deadly but I don’t recall seeing anything about this outside of textbooks …)
loading...
Vulnerable like babies. They are dying of PREVENTABLE disease.
There is no reason for these babies to die.
They are dying because of ignorance, superstition and sheer bloody mindedness.
loading...
You say further on that you never read anything about golden staph outside of textbooks – that’s simply not true. The weekly medical insert in the newspaper REGULARLY has articles on antibiotic resistant bacteria ( NB – NOT drug resistant viruses – viruses have always been resistant to pretty much everything HENCE WHY WE VACCINATE).
It comes down to scientific literacy – I think many people are simply not interested until it directly affects them, and then howl that they were never told.
loading...
People die of all those diseases
loading...
“whopping pox”? Thank you for illustrating why people need to get reputable, accurate vaccination information. Do not listen to anti-vaccination cranks who blame parents for their baby’s death.
loading...
It’s a really big pox, not a tiny one. I think. But whatever it is, it isn’t fatal, apparently.
loading...
The vitriol isn’t directed at people who can’t get vaccinated for legit reasons, it is reserved for people who won’t based on a vibe or “info” from the AVN or similar. Those who choose not to vaccinate cop it from the rest of us precisely because there are people who CAN’T be vaccinated.
loading...
The 60minute article was so timely, it meant we could bring this up with the in-laws this weekend and (finally) get them to agree to get their boosters! Hubby got his this week too. For me, vaccination isn’t a decision I need to weigh up, the pros far outweigh the (possible) cons.
loading...
I had no idea adults still needed vaccinations (silly me, I know) for stuff until recently. We were trying to conceive our second child and when we had no luck after 6 months I got impatient and went to my GP who did a bunch of bloods etc and rang me a few days later to say “Stop trying, you need Rubella NOW!”.
I did some Googling (not the best source of medical info I know) and basically if we had’ve conceived and then I happened to contract the Rubella virus, we had something like a 90% chance the baby would be born with multiple birth defects, if the baby survived at all.
I had to have a booster and then we had to wait 6-8 weeks before getting my levels tested again, before we were given the ok to start trying again. I’m so glad I happened to go to my GP. I don’t know what the odds are of getting Rubella, but I wouldn’t want to risk it.
(FYI, baby # 2 is now on the way!)
Thanks for bringing articles like this to peoples attention MM!
loading...
Not at all silly you – it’s not widely reported that adults need the booster.
loading...
I had Whooping Cough 5 years ago and I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone. Coughing so hard I bruised ribs, wet myself (and had to literally wear incontinence pads at night for a few months), coughed till I vomited, was feverish, exhausted, depressed. This went on for 5 months. And the next 2 years got bronchitis each winter, not sure if it was related but I believe it was.
Everyone should get a booster every 10 years. A’s for those who don’t believe in immunization, well, try having this and then trying to function A’s an adult, let alone a parent. The sickest I have ever ever been or ever want to be again.
loading...
Oh and the 4 courses of strong antibiotics I had to have would have felled an elephant.
loading...
I liked that interviewer on 60 minutes. I thought she was kind to the anti vaccinators who obviously mean well.
I thought the mother of three was also brave to put across her anti vaccination beliefs.
I am pro vaccination but I also think it is ok to ask questions. We are very manipulated by drug reps and it is ok to look for answers. To question what we are told is fine.
I often wonder if a child who dies uni unused has any underlying immunity problem that may have caused death by a different infection if immunised?
I would love to see a study of rates of infant death in areas such as Byron Bay compared to a high immunisation area. I would be interesting to see what is happening and be able to comment without doubt about what is happening.
The reality is not black and white. We don’t know what causes autism and while it has not been proven to be immunisation we haven’t proven it isn’t.
I personally feel in my gut that we benefit from immunisation so I do it but it is disingenuous to paint all non immunisers as idiots
loading...
I’m not quite sure what you mean due to presumed typo, but if you are trying to suggest that vaccination increases your vunerability to infections for which you are not immunized against, there is no theoretical/immunological/epidemiological evidence base for you assertion. Vaccination stimulates the production of memory T and B cells (white blood cells, part of the immune system) that react against a part of that particular bacteria or virus, so when it is encountered again they can multiple quickly and fight the infection. It does not effect the level of immunity to other infections.
I also disagree with your point about immunizations and autism, it has been proven that they are not linked by epidemiological studies, which is the best evidence we are ever likely to get (it is far too late to do a placebo controlled trial, the evidence in favor of vaccines means it is unethical).
Drug companies are not generally motivated to make vaccines, as they make more money on disease treatment rather than prevention, which is why we have government funded research.
I do agree with your point at it is sensible to ask questions, but people need to make sure they ask the right sources!
loading...
No I didn’t mean that- I am typo prone due to the iPhone. I meant what studies have there been done to look and infant deaths in poor immunisation areas like Byron in comparison to high immunisation areas? I would like to think they support immunisation. I might google a look now and see what I can find. It would be interesting to know. A lot of those diseases may ot kill a strong child. But would a weaker one. I was wondering if a child prone to illness while prevented from catching say whooping cough might catch pneumonia instead and die anyway? I am not saying it is true to asking a genuine question.
From my life experience as a child of the immunised era I didn’t hear of any people getting autism or other problems? So I personally doubt it is the cause. Something is but maybe any number of variables.
I am pro vaccination. But Indonesia not hate the anti’s they have rights to believe what they want. If we want change we need to study and provide real quality proof to back it up.
I just don’t feel it is as black and white as Mia states.
loading...
Typo I can’t edit- indonesia?????? I meant we need to accept people have a different view and I feel it because the answers are not as black and white as we would like. Now while vaccination rates have dropped would be a good time to study what happens and back it up. Ie. You have a 3 fold chance of death or severe illness as a child in poor imunisation areas.
loading...
We haven’t proved that autism isn’t caused by breast milk or trees or puppies or nitrogen gas or those little things on the end of shoelaces either. How do you prove something ISN’T caused by something? Where do you even start the list of things to rule out? Pluto? Strangely, the one thing that has been investigated over and over is the possible vax-autism link and they just don’t see it. Maybe all that research should be directed elsewhere by now?
All non-vaxers aren’t idiots (though some leading lobbyists are clearly deluded beyond help), they’re human and they have the same flaws as the rest of us – but in the case of vaccination (and often other medical issues) it has lead them to make seemingly idiotic decisions based, usually, on a complete misunderstanding of statistical risks and too often a belief the entire scientific community is out to turn us into robots or something equally daft (read about chemtrails and the Illuminati for more on these conspriacies).
I find it bizarre that people can hold a lack of trust in an entire world-wide profession based on decades of research and evidence yet place their absolute faith in someone who admits their own lack of qualification and who, for all intents and purposes, actually appears to be insane. That really does get me wondering about some people’s levels of intelligence.
loading...
I think it is more then reasonable to question most medical things- Example- Hormone replacement therapy- when I went to Uni it was the rage- all women should be on it to protect against cardiovascular and bone density problems. Now it is not used much as causes breast cancer in some people.
Vioxx- was the wonder anti inflammatory that reduced the risk of ulcers but ended up causing heart attack.
Beta Blockers were contraindicated in diabetes in 1997 but by 2011 they are recommended.
My point is medical advice changes continually as we get more information. The reality is drug companies cover up unfavorable results at times. Like suicide in the first few weeks after taking anti depressants for example.
Just because someone says something we don’t agree with doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be followed up. Unbiased would be nice as opposed to the very pro very anti. Both with agendas that block unbiased information.
loading...
I don’t think most pro-vaxers are in any doubt as to the sometimes questionable tactics of pharma companies and I’m sure all non-shareholders would like to see those practices cleaned up. But the foibles of big-pharma do not mean everything they do is evil or that anyone who questions them must surely be offering something better.
Once again, some seat belts fail and maybe they should have been better tested. Seat belt manufacturers are in it for profit, just like pharma companies. Parachute makers too. If we applied anti-vax logic to everything, we’d never use anything that wasn’t guaranteed 100% safe and assume conspiracy for everything else. It’s silly.
Healthy scepticism makes sense but when someone mentions “toxins” like “formaldehyde” in vaccines, I have my doubts their scepticism about vaccines are well founded. It’s more likely they’ve just accepted the fear-mongering of people with an axe to grind against the medical and pharmaceutical professions.
The good thing about the medical industry is that things DO change. That’s a positive. If only alt-med would withdraw products and services that don’t work – but then, there wouldn’t be much alt-med left I guess.
loading...
I agree- It astounds me how many intelligent people love the alternative medicines.
Alot of it is like believing in fairies and I just do not get why people can sell unproven placebos to vulnerablle people.
I work in a medical industry that likes to milk it both ways and I hate it. I am not anti supplement as long as they work, but so many just don’t.
loading...
I suspect it’s because our bodies are so good at self-repair that alt-med can appear to work. The alt-med choice can be considered proven when a cold goes away after just seven days instead of lasting a week like it does for people who don’t use it.
This might explain why we don’t see alt-mechanics on every second street corner. How many people would willingly accept that a car can be repaired by waving hands over it, or sitting a crystal in the glovebox or putting just one drop of water i the air filter?
Mind you, a lot of people think Uri Gellar can fix watches with his mind…
loading...