Vaccination. Where are you getting your information

UPDATED: Australian Vaccination Network- a website of deception

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PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THIS STORY. YOU COULD SAVE THE LIFE OF A CHILD. I was working late in front of the brilliant Lateline on ABC1 a couple of weeks ago when they broke a compelling story about the Australian Vaccination Network. I watched the report with tears in my eyes and my jaw dropped somewhere near the floor. Tears for the McCaffery family whose baby Dana died of whooping cough at only 32 days, and dropped jaw for the extraordinary cruelty and willful deceit of the Australian Vaccination Network.

From its name, the Australian Vaccination Network sounds like a reasonable organisation, right? Somewhere you might be able to find information about vaccinating your children. Maybe some pros, maybe some cons.

Well, the last part is right. The whole website is a con because it’s not objective at all. The Australian Vaccination Network is run by a group of extreme anti-vaccination zealots who have harassed and traumatised the parents of a baby girl who died of whooping cough. More than they were already traumatised by the loss of their 4 week old baby if that’s even possible.

UPDATE 27th July:

Fairfax reports:

When their four-week-old baby daughter Dana died from whooping cough Toni and David McCaffery sought love and healing to ease their grief.
Instead, they say they were subjected to a campaign of harassment and abuse at the hands of anti-vaccination campaigners, a group who were yesterday labelled a serious threat to the public’s health and safety.
The Health Care Complaints Commission issued a public warning against the Australian Vaccination Network after it refused to display a disclaimer on its website to inform readers its information should not be taken as medical advice.
Earlier this month the commission investigated the network, run out of Bangalow on the north coast by Meryl Dorey, and found its website presented incorrect and misleading information that was solely anti-vaccination and quoted selectively from research suggesting that vaccination may be dangerous.
Its investigation was sparked by two complaints, one from Toni and David McCaffery, whose four-week-old daughter Dana died from whooping cough last year.
The couple, from Lennox Head, allege they were subjected to months of harassment and abuse by Ms Dorey and anti-vaccination campaigners, accusing them of lying about the cause of their daughter’s death. They received anonymous letters and emails that said whooping cough was not fatal and vaccinations were not needed.
Mrs McCaffery, whose daughter was too young to be vaccinated when she caught whooping cough, said Ms Dorey also tried to get her baby’s medical records from the hospital without permission. ”Instead of love and healing in the weeks after Dana’s death, we got ugliness … it has been terrible,” she said.
Mrs McCaffery also complained that Ms Dorey had quoted misleading statistics, spread misinformation through seminars and the internet, and gave poor telephone advice.
The second complaint against the network was made by Ken McLeod, a member of a group called Stop the AVN.
He said Ms Dorey had claimed that meningococcal disease was harmless and ”hardly kills anybody”; that vaccination was being used to spread AIDS in Third World countries; and homeopathy could take the place of vaccination.
His group now wants the state government to apply for a court injunction against the network and have it closed down. The group’s website says Ms Dorey believes ”vaccines are part of a global conspiracy to implant mind control chips into every man, woman and child and that the ‘illuminati’ plan a mass cull of humans”.
Ms Dorey did not return calls yesterday but issued a statement on her website which said the HCCC’s recommendation was ”laughable” and she was seeking legal advice.
”Nobody would expect nuclear safety advocates to issue statements on the benefits of nuclear power; Greenpeace to make films on the pleasures of killing and eating whales … Why then should we be expected to make statements we don’t believe are factual and that are not supported by the medical literature?
”If the AVN is expected to show both sides of this issue, why aren’t the medical community and the government likewise cited for their lack of disclosure on the risks and ineffectiveness of vaccines?”
A spokesman for the HCCC said it could take no further action but it was disappointing the network was refusing to make its position clear.

This story is so outrageous and so appalling, you really should take a few moments to watch it. Terrific work by Steve Canane (formerly Triple J’s Hack program).

If you can’t see the video, Lateline reports

The NSW Health Care Complaints Commission has compiled a damning report after examining Australia’s most prominent anti-vaccination group, the Australian Vaccination Network.
The commission accuses the AVN of providing inaccurate and misleading information and selectively quoting research out of context to argue against vaccination.
It’s also noted accusations that the AVN harassed the parents of a child who died of whooping cough last year, after they’d advocated the importance of childhood vaccination in the media.
The report’s likely to go public within the next two weeks.

It is not uncommon to look up side effects and health risks on the internet. Google has replaced a doctor’s consult in many homes around Australia and while I think we should obviously consult a real life flesh and blood doctor for any real medical issues I would certainly look up side effects of medication on the web. When googling vaccination, the Australian Vaccination Network comes up as the first result in my search. According to their site

The Australian Vaccination Network is working to help parents take back that right to free and informed choice by allowing them to see the less publicised side of this important issue before making a decision.

vacc 177x236 UPDATED: Australian Vaccination Network a website of deception

What they forget to add is that they are fanatics who are vehemently opposed to vaccination. Hard to imagine how balanced the information is when they are so boldly opposed to it. In fact when you read their “About us” page they provide their Constitution but no solid information on who is part of the Network and if there is in fact any scientific or medical knowledge backing their position.

Look, this is not an argument about vaccinations although I am most definitely in the pro-vaccination camp. And I believe the view that it’s a personal decision is a flawed one because one person choosing not to immunise their children can have devastating and tragic effects on someone else’s child – as the McCaffery family discovered.

But what is so outrageous about this story is the fact the Australian Vaccination Network are so devious in not disclosing their position anywhere on their website and the fact that they knowingly publish false and misleading information about vaccinations so as to further their cause.

When you are trying to persuade someone to take a particular course of medical action – one that could have life-or-death consequences for their child as well as other people’s children – you MUST disclose your position. You MUST be transparent. Anything less is gross abuse. Almost as gross as the actual abuse and harassment The Australian Vaccination Network has inflicted on a family in deep grief over the loss of their baby.

What a shocker. PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THIS STORY SO VULNERABLE PARENTS AREN’T MISINFORMED BY THIS WEBSITE OR THIS DANGEROUS GROUP.

What influenced you in your decision to vaccinate your child or not? Do you think organisations like Australian Vaccination Network should have to declare their hand before offering one-sided and (according to independent health authorities) deliberately false information about vaccination ?

Article filed under: health , & published: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010.

Tags: children, health

Regina-Maree says:

September 3, 2010 at 10:26 pm

I think it is highly suspicious that our government PAYS us to get our children vaccinated!! :O

I just received a letter from Centrelink saying “your daughter is almost two… therefore you may be entitled to an immunisation allowance.”

Is it just me or does anyone think this is highly bizarre!?

When I was pregnant and hadn’t yet done the research for myself about vaccinations, I heard of the immunisation allowance and thought “an extra little bit of money to help with parenting. That’s nice.”

But now, having actually read many books & articles about vaccines, I have chosen to no longer vaccinate my daughter and I am disgusted that our government actually PAYS us to vaccinate our children! :O

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guest says:

August 11, 2010 at 6:25 pm

My ex boyfriends mother is a GP, she is not a hippy and was married to a homeopath, none of their 3 kids were vaccinated, and are all beautiful big boys who have had very little illness in their lives! My kids are so I am not saying that it is wrong but it is very interesting that there are medical professionals who would definitely not let their kids be vaccinated or their grand kids!

Amanda Robertson says:

August 10, 2010 at 3:57 pm

The Australian Vaccination Network’s funding comes from advertising revenue (in it’s magazine Living Wisdom) and from memberships including professional memberships from businesses. Most of the businesses that sponsor them are Chiropractic (make of that what you will), but I have noticed that a mail-order supplier of organic baby/children’s goods is also a proud sponsor. http://Www.natureschild.com.au http://www.facebook.com/natureschild?ref=ts. I expressed my concern at their support of the AVN, particularly as they operate in Byron Bay, not far from where Dana McCaffrey contracted Whooping Cough, however, they are unapologetically continuing to endorse the AVN as an organisation that is pro-choice and truthful, despite their attention being drawn to the public health warning issued about the AVN.

I am a big consumer of organic children’s products, as are many of my friends and I have advised them against shopping with Nature’s Child because of this worrying lapse in judgement and corporate citizenship. If anyone else thinks this is like Sheriden sponsoring the KKK in order to get more sales of bedsheets then please let Nature’s Child know what you think of their affiliations and tell your friends not to shop with them.

Nicholas2010ful says:

August 9, 2010 at 1:02 am

I am shocked by the level of feeling on this issue. I respect a person’s right to both choose or decline vaccination. In the current climate, it’s easy to forget that vaccination is not mandatory in Australia, and never has been. Despite this vaccination rates are far higher than they were in the 1960′s and 1970′s. It’s important to note that both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals can harbour and transmit infectious diseases.

Kris2040 says:

August 4, 2010 at 10:59 pm

Lateline tonight just had a story that the AVN are now also being investigated by the Gaming Commission as they are apparently registered as a charitable organisation!

Sorry, too early for the link to be on the website.

Monica says:

August 2, 2010 at 2:00 pm

People who don’t vaccinate their children should take a walk through an old cemetery & see how many children are buried there.

Kris2040 says:
August 2, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Oh but we don’t need to worry about that because thats all in the past and doesn’t happen now! I think yours it a tops idea. I also think these jerks who oppose vaccination should have to watch film or look at photos of kids with polio, whooping cough, etc from not really all that long ago, and speak to the adults now who are still coping with what polio did to them.
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- Regina-Maree says:
  September 3, 2010 at 10:34 pm
  Seriously. As if people who decide not to vaccinate their children are jerks! Grow up.
  Name calling is highly mature. Hats off to you. Let me guess – you’re 2 years old?!
  Honestly, I think you are being very narrow minded & judgemental.
  How about YOU look at some videos and pictures of some of the millions of innocent children who have died simply from being vaccinated.
  People like me on the other hand are open minded and mature enough to research BOTH sides of the story before coming to a conclusion. Then, I act upon my decision but I don’t go around calling anyone who has a different opinion a JERK.
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Kezia says:

July 30, 2010 at 2:14 pm

I was looking for information on the web about vaccinations for my at the time 6 month old, and I found this website! Until the moment I read this story I beleived everything I had read on the website to be true and stopped my daughters vaccinations. I told do many of my girlfriends that have babies the same age about this site to. I feel terrible now knowing it is misleading. This website should be shut down, to stop other parents being mislead as I was. My daughter is now almost 12 months old and I will now go to the doctor and get her vaccinations done.

Anna says:

July 29, 2010 at 2:31 pm

I have a six month old daughter. It took me ages to decide if I wanted her vaccinated. She was born prematurely and was so tiny and weak. I kept thinking to myself – why am I going to take this tiny little baby, who is so pure, and inject her with disease? It took many months of careful consideration, I never looked at the AVN website (from what I can tell they are mentally ill), and my partner and I discussed it tirelessly. Ultimately, she is now Vaccinated according to the schedule, and is completely fine & healthy. The point I think we are all missing here is that we do have a choice – and it is the parents right, based on their circumstances, to choose whether or not their child is vaccinated. I do not believe that parents who vaccinate their children care any more about their children than parents who choose not to, and I don’t believe, as stated below, that parents who dont vaccinate their children are selfish. The AVN is a stupid and ridiculous website. But that is a seperate issue as to whether or not parents are good or bad for having vaccinated their children. I do not think people that have had their children vaccinated have the right to put down parents who have quitely chosen not to. It is their choice, you made a different one.

Funkstar says:

July 29, 2010 at 1:44 pm

Looking at the photo above, I just want to say Dana McCaffery is (was) the most beautiful, beautiful baby. My condolences to the McCaffery family.

Meljay says:

July 28, 2010 at 5:17 pm

Mia – if you take nothing else away from this, look at the number of responses to the post. 600-odd has to be some kind of record (and I know you’ve deleted some so the real figure must be higher).

I guess what this says is that this issue resounds with us as a community. You have responses here from parents, grandparents, people not yet parents, people who have no intention of becoming parents, expectant parents and people trying to get pregnant…

I think it’s incredible that one topic can motivate so many people to engage in this sort of debate which, on the whole, has been fairly reasoned – even those with disagreements.

Law Student says:

July 28, 2010 at 4:08 pm

If people don’t want to vaccinate, I think that is their choice but aren’t they lucky to be a part of a community which for the most part DOES vaccinate, and so they benefit from the “herd immunity”. If for example we had a massive drop in vaccinations accross the community, people would soon remember why vaccination was heralded as a major step forward in modern medicine.

Kris2040 says:
July 28, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Oh but according to the anti-vaxers it isn’t the mass immunisations that stopped preventable diseases, it was feminism, better hygiene and changed living conditions don’t you know. Which totally explains why kids on farms only living with their families got polio in the 50s. And also why it stopped as the vaccines were rolled out…
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Two sides to every story. says:

July 28, 2010 at 4:07 pm

This is from the AVN website:

AVN Response to Sydney Morning Herald Article – 27/7/10

I guess I should not be surprised when the media gets something wrong. It’s just that when they get SO MANY things wrong in one article, it’s difficult not to read that as anything but intentional bias and deliberate misstatements.

Below is a critique of the article that appeared in today’s Sydney Morning Herald, written by Kate Benson, entitled , Vaccine activists labelled a threat.

WHEN their four-week-old baby daughter Dana died from whooping cough Toni and David McCaffery sought love and healing to ease their grief.

Instead, they say they were subjected to a campaign of harassment and abuse at the hands of anti-vaccination campaigners, a group who were yesterday labelled a serious threat to the public’s health and safety.

In July 2009, the HCCC forwarded a complaint that had been made by Ken McLeod, one of the members of the hate group, Stop the AVN. We gave a full and complete response to this complaint in September, 2009. The McCaffery’s filed their own complaint against the AVN in December, 2009 and we were not informed of this until their names were added on to the original complaint in February, 2010.

Despite the fact that accusations like the ones above and below were made against both myself and the AVN by the McCaffery’s, the HCCC would not allow me to see these accusations. Instead, I was expected to respond to the complaint without having access to it. Anyone can see that this is a denial of the AVN’s and my right to natural justice.

As for this supposed campaign of harassment, neither I nor anyone else on our committee has ever contacted the McCaffery’s by any means whatsoever – emails, telephone, letter or in person. So this supposed harassment by AVN members is an unsubstantiated claim which, despite requesting further information from the HCCC on this issue, has never been verified by either the McCaffery’s or any other officials involved in this investitation.

I can easily say that Julia Gillard calls me up every Saturday night at 9 PM to have a yarn about the kids, but this would be a lie. Likewise, unless proof is provided by the McCaffery’s that I or any other AVN member has harassed them, this claim is simply untrue.

For instance, the McCaffery’s have regularly said that I have been found to have provided incorrect and misleading information to the ABC radio after an interview last year. They say this despite the fact that they KNOW that it was, in fact, the ABC presenter who was found to have given incorrect information and not me. Please read the following correspondence:

From: ABC Corporate_Affairs11
Date: 5 February 2010 4:26:39 PM AEDT
To: “‘meryl@avn.org.au’”
Subject: RE: ABC Investigation of vaccination information

Dear Ms Dorey

I refer to your emails of 28 and 29 January to ABC presenter Katya Quigley. In line with ABC complaints procedures, your correspondence has been forwarded to Audience and Consumer Affairs.

As previously advised in a number of my emails to you, the findings of the Audience and Consumer Affairs review did not relate to your contribution to the program or to how the AVN presents statistics. Consistent with ABC complaints procedures, our review related to whether the statements about the statistics made by an ABC presenter complied with the ABC’s editorial standards for accuracy in factual content. Our finding was that the ABC presenter’s statement did not meet the standard, which requires that “Every reasonable effort must be made to ensure that factual content is accurate and in context”.

In addition, the Herald journalist’s use of the words “serious threat to the public’s health and safety” is something that was made up by the journalist. These words do not appear anywhere in the HCCC announcement and one has to wonder who is in fact running the Sydney Morning Herald when they can make such obviously slanderous comments without any proof or reason?

The Health Care Complaints Commission issued a public warning against the Australian Vaccination Network after it refused to display a disclaimer on its website to inform readers its information should not be taken as medical advice.

For many years, the AVN has had a disclaimer on its website. The HCCC was informed of this back in September 2009, yet like so much of the information provided to this organisation by the AVN, they either chose to ignore it or were incapable of understanding it.

Our disclaimer states that, “If medical advice is required the services of a competent professional should be sought.”

What the AVN objects to and has objected to since the beginning of this process over a year ago is the following:

1. The HCCC has no jurisdiction to investigate the AVN. Both our lawyers and our barrister have pointed this out to this government body several times with references to the Act under which the HCCC was formed. Despite this, the HCCC has refused to address our concerns over lack of jurisdiction in any meaningful way, simply stating that they disagree with our reading of the relevant legislation. If the HCCC has jurisdiction over the AVN and myself, then there would be very few members of either the media or the general public who would not likewise be considered – from time to time – to be ’health educators’ under the HCC Act – including the complainants, Ken McLeod and Toni and David McCaffery – all three of whom are self-proclaimed activists for mass vaccination.
2. Requiring a vaccine safety and health watchdog group such as the AVN to use specific wording on their website or in print or at any time at all makes a mockery of the right to freedom of communication as upheld by the High Court of Australia and by convention in this great democracy we live in. The laws of Australia do not allow censorship of websites unless the content is deemed to incite violence against others or to include racial vilification or child pornography. The AVN website does none of these things and therefore, the HCCC is acting outside the law and is discriminating against not only our organisation, but the thousands of parents across Australia whose children have been killed or injured by vaccines.

Earlier this month the commission investigated the network, run out of Bangalow on the north coast by Meryl Dorey, and found its website presented incorrect and misleading information that was solely anti-vaccination and quoted selectively from research suggesting that vaccination may be dangerous.

The HCCC’s ‘investigation’ consisted of a review of our website and in particular – one single page of our website which currently contains hundreds of pages of information including links to the manufacturer’s package inserts for all currently licensed vaccines – information which should be freely available to all but which the health department chooses to exclude.

In addition, I would like to use the following quote from my last response to the HCCC (all correspondence between the AVN and the HCCC can be accessed by clicking here)

“In the most general of terms, I Meryl Dorey will define my identity for the purposes of this response. I consider myself to be a health activist struggling against environmental causes of ill health. I would consider these struggles to be political in nature and any attempt to censor me or the AVN would be seen as an attempt to censor my political views.

“In my opinion, the whole of the ‘investigation’ findings from the HCCC, are a crude attempt to stifle contrary political opinions about public health that emanate, in this circumstance from those who consider that vaccinations can have no adverse reactions and that groups who raise questions about their safety and effectiveness must be censored to support government policy.

“This opinion is based upon my dealings with the HCCC and the apparent bias which was most evident in the statement made to me by your investigator, Leanne Evans on the 26th of May, 2010.

“When questioned about how either the AVN or myself could get a fair hearing from the HCCC when the Commission seemed to ignore so much of the referenced information I had provided in previous responses, Ms Evans stated that, “The HCCC is a government department and as such, we can’t go against government policy which is pro-vaccination.”

Our organisation has been running for 17 years. In that time, we have distributed information packs, magazines, newsletters and flyers. Our website contains a very tiny portion of the information we have published and yet, our website was the only thing the HCCC ‘investigated’ and that investigation concentrated on one single page.

The HCCC requested references to the information on this page – references which the AVN provided. These references were ignored by the investigation with the same questions being asked over and over again until the HCCC made their decision to state that our information is misleading. It is the feeling of the AVN that the bias shown by the HCCC since the beginning of this process required that regardless of the evidence we were able to provide them with, the conclusion was predetermined. The HCCC was required to uphold government policy on this issue which is pro-vaccination and anti-informed choice.

His group now wants the state government to apply for a court injunction against the network and have it closed down. The group’s website says Ms Dorey believes ‘‘vaccines are part of a global conspiracy to implant mind control chips into every man, woman and child and that the ‘illuminati’ plan a mass cull of humans’’.

Evidence yet again that the Sydney Morning Herald is either intentionally ignoring all of the rules of investigative journalism or else, they don’t understand how to do research.

Mr McLeod and the others associated with his hate group have continually stated that I believe these outrageous and ridiculous statements. The reason they make this statement is because last year, I posted an article about the Swine Flu vaccine that was printed in the Pakistan Daily to my blog. According to them (and the page is no longer up so it is impossible for me to check the proof of this statement), there was a link to a website owned by a David Icke who believes the statements Mr McLeod attributes to me.

Mr McLeod’s contention is that since I posted the article, I am personally responsible for and supportive of not only every word in the article, but every link including sponsored links that appear on the page.

As anyone who has ever used the internet would be aware, this is a fallacious assumption. Pages often have links to other websites that are not under the control of the page owner. If you have Google ads or any other sponsored links, you will almost always see links on your own page that you do not approve of. It does not mean that you support or agree with those links and for Mr McLeod to make these outrageous claims or the Sydney Morning Herald to print them is slanderous at best – deceitful at worst.

Ms Dorey did not return calls yesterday but issued a statement on her website which said the HCCC’s recommendation was ‘‘laughable’’ and she was seeking legal advice.

It is true that the Herald called yesterday but I was out of the office and did not return until too late to respond.

Next, to put things into context, the word “laughable” referred to in the quote above is the only word the reporter actually got right in her entire article. This comes from a press release that the AVN issued yesterday. If the reporter was privy to the information in that press release, one has to wonder why only one word was used – and that out of context with the actual release?

For the edification of those who care about the truth, here is the paragraph that was quoted:

“The HCCC states that our information is misleading because we do not include data on the benefits of vaccination,” says Meryl Dorey, Media Spokesperson for the AVN. “Yet this is a laughable assertion when you consider that nobody would expect nuclear safety advocates to issue statements on the benefits of nuclear power; Greenpeace to make films on the pleasures of killing and eating whales; or those who argue against fluoridation of the water supply to write reports about the benefits of mass medication without individual consent.

“Why then should we be expected to make statements we don’t believe are factual and that are not supported by the medical literature? If the AVN is expected to show both sides of this issue, why aren’t the medical community and the government likewise cited for their lack of disclosure on the risks and ineffectiveness of vaccines?”

I’m sure that any thinking person – though not necessarily any journalist – would realise that the use of the word laughable in this case, was intended to reflect the fact that the HCCC’s investigation was incomplete, biased and of grave concern to anyone who believes that Australians have the right to access all available information about any medical procedures before making a choice,

Claudia says:
July 28, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Just like Australians researching vaccination have the right to know that the Australian Vaccination Network is, despite its misleading name, an anti-vaccination organisation.
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Kris2040 says:
July 28, 2010 at 4:40 pm
“The HCCC’s ‘investigation’ consisted of a review of our website”
How else would you have suggested the HCCC investigate you, then? The AVN website is where most of the people looking for information are going to find you, so why wouldn’t they look at that? GK a few posts down pulled apart just one of your pages spectactularly!
People have anecdotally said here they have been harassed by your advocates when taking their kids to get vaccinated.
Doesn’t sound like much choice advocacy to me.
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- Kris2040 says:
  July 28, 2010 at 4:44 pm
  Oh and I love how you guys refer to Stop the AVN as a hate group, and fascists as well. From some of the antics that you and your supporters have got up to, that is a BIIIIIIG call.
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Alice says:
July 28, 2010 at 4:47 pm
“Why then should we be expected to make statements we don’t believe are factual and that are not supported by the medical literature?”
From what we’ve heard so far, making factually incorrect statements unsupported by medical literature is exactly what the AVN DOES do. It would appear it is precisely what the public CAN expect from the AVN.
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Kris2040 says:
July 28, 2010 at 4:48 pm
This is the disclaimer from your site:
DISCLAIMER NOTICE
The AVN makes no guarantees of any kind with regard to any products and other materials contained on this site. No warranty or guarantee is expressed or implied with any information at this site.
The AVN has, as far as it is possible, taken care to ensure that the information given on this site is accurate and up to date. However, this information is provided with the understanding that the AVN is not liable for the misconception or misuse of information provided. This information is continually being updated and so may not be accurate, current or complete and is subject to change without notice.
The information on this site is intended and applicable for Australian audiences only and adheres to Australian legislation and regulatory guidelines.
Where does it say about consulting a professional like you say?
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AndyD says:
August 3, 2010 at 2:26 am
Sorry for re-commenting but I replied to this with two links – one to a Google-cached copy of the Pakistan Daily article Dorey says is impossible to check and one to the identical article (original) on David Icke’s website. I guess the links got it caught in a spam trap?
Suffice it to say, Meryl got it wrong. The very article she linked to and part-quoted on her blog, supposedly written by Farooq Hussain, contained an explicit accusation that the Swine flu vaccine was the work of the Illuminati, contained microchips and would be used to mass cull the population.
It didn’t specifically mention “lizard people” but that’s what David Icke’s Illuminati are. Someone with even introductory “research” skills would have discovered that by now. It’s hardly a secret.
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Shelly Stone says:

July 28, 2010 at 11:58 am

Why would you even set up a website vindicating vaccination anyway?

Does the AVN want preventable diseases in our community, or something else equally as sinister?

amandarose says:

July 28, 2010 at 10:57 am

Wikipedia has a fantastic vaccination article and the anti vaccination movement and explians it well and what bets they have a point with and what parts are flawed logic. It answered all my questions and I now get both sides of the story.

Claudia says:

July 28, 2010 at 9:55 am

Mia, just out of interest (and no worries if you’re not able to tell us), have you received any hate mail from the AVN?

Apparently it’s their MO to attack anyone who questions their dubious claims (as stated above, even grieving parents) and I was curious if you’d received the same treatment?

I for one am SO pleased you’ve written this post as people need to know the truth about the AVN.

Mia says:
July 28, 2010 at 10:54 am
Good question Claudia.
We’ve certainly received some personally abusive comments on this post which we have deleted. And some comments about the McCaffery family which you just wouldn’t believe.
Those were also deleted.
So the answer is a resounding yes.
What I have found most disturbing about this has been the AVN’s attacks on the McCaffery family, vulnerable people in deep grief over the senseless loss of their baby daughter.
Just…..beggars belief that anyone could be so cruel and heartless.
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- Claudia says:
  July 28, 2010 at 11:25 am
  It’s just so, so sad and how anyone can attack them at any time let alone when their baby had just died is beyond comprehension.
  I was having a read of their FB group and some of the comments there were terrible too, I would have loved to join to let them know my thoughts but they have a disclaimer along the lines that unless you are pro AVN then don’t bother joining!
  I was also reading one discussion thread where a mother was debating the vaccination issue and she wasn’t too keen on vaccination but decided to go ahead and claimed how impressed with the whole process she had been. The members of the group then went on to say ‘reading that makes me feel sick. I feel so sad for you and your family’ kind of comments – an absolute guilt trip.
  They are warped and will not see sense, reason, logic or SCIENCE and will not tolerate any opinion that isn’t 100% anti vaccination.
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  - Mrs M says:
    July 28, 2010 at 1:52 pm
    I listed to Meryl Dorey on Adam Spencer’s breakfast program yesterday morning and she was so ‘no I NEVER said this or that’. She was so controlled and seemed so measured…but like you say Claudia if you go to the Facebook page of the AVN you see her and her follower’s true thoughts. Appalling.
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    - Claudia says:
      July 28, 2010 at 1:58 pm
      Absolutely – plus she also denied writing something to Steve, the Lateline reporter, until he showed her the print out and then she fluffed some ‘it’s been taken out of context’ answer!
      I don’t understand how anyone can give her the time of day, let alone look up to her and be a ‘fan’ of the AVN on facebook.
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      - Kris2040 says:
        July 28, 2010 at 3:57 pm
        Then someone here tried to discredit Steve Cannane who is AWESOME of being biased as he’s a member or friend or something of the skeptics, and that the interview was scripted to make her look bad!
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- Tabs/Tinker says:
  July 29, 2010 at 2:07 am
  Hi Mia,
  I just wanted to say a big thankyou for deleting the horrid posts that were on here in regards to the McCaffery family.
  As an admin of the Stop the AVN page, I have been subject to abuse, ‘cyber’ stalking, bullying etc due to being a part of this and my stance on vaccination (obviously very much pro!)- including a member making an account in the name of my dog that I put to sleep in April of this year.
  However, what has happened to me pales in comparison to the abuse and harrasment the McCaffery family have experienced. Meryl writing TWICE(that we have evidence of) that darling Dana “supposedly” died from pertussis, is unfortunately only one thing that she and other AVN members have done to this family.
  Once again, thankyou so much for allowing both sides to comment, but also not allowing those who continue to harrass and abuse this family to post here and cause more heartache for a family that has already been through enough!
  Tabs, R.N., PostGrad Dip. Immun.
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GK says:

July 28, 2010 at 12:50 am

Wow. There is a ridiculous amount of incorrect information on the AVN site. Not even in terms of propaganda or selective choice of references, but scientifically, factually incorrect. It saddens me to think that for parents with little or no scientific/medical training this could appear convincing.

E.g
their article entitled “10 reasons why parents question vaccination” here http://avn.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=188:channel-7-one-sided-reporting-in-your-own-words&catid=75:admin&Itemid=65

Under Point 3, and I quote “For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40 – just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.”

Firstly, not a single one of these claims contains any kind of reference to a scientific or medical study which supports it. Secondly the clearest example of their own ignorance and mis-information is contained in the claim that “there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase.”

There is no chicken retrovirus called Reverse Transcriptase.
THIS IS LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

Why?

Reverse transcriptase is a form of enzyme that plays a vital role in the formation of double stranded DNA from single stranded RNA.

Enzymes are proteins (constructed from amino acids). Viruses are viruses, made up of various genetic material including both DNA and RNA. Which in turn is made up of nucleic acids. Nucleic acids are not the same as amino acids!!!!!!!

I repeat – enzymes are not viruses. And they are certainly not a virus called reverse transcriptase contaminating the MMR!

Further, the authors of this site are purposefully misleading.

How?

They take certain facts which are true, and conflate them to make their claims sound convincing.

E.g HIV actually is a retrovirus. It is also well known to be linked to a Simian (Monkey) form of the virus – SIV. Thus if you google HIV, these terms will come up in the literature, making the claims seem legitimate.

They contradict themselves “This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans;”,

Which substance…. the Reverse Transcriptase. As above, this is an enzyme, specifically it is a RNA-dependent DNA polymerase. It is not non-human DNA code. Or perhaps they mean the chicken retrovirus…? Which as far as I’m aware, people with HIV/AIDS show no signs of at the conversion stage.

In any case, neither of these has any role in “switching on” HIV. It’s not too clear why HIV transitions to full blown AIDS at this point. But its fair to say that AVN will be the last to know given their standards of research.

This is a huge post. I hope it made sense. If I had the time and resources I would go through page by page and dissect their appalling pseudo science. It horrifies me that in only one point, of one of their many pages, I could find such flawed and patently false claims about science generally, let alone their commentary on vaccination.

Parents, please be aware. Speak to a medical professional. You are more than entitled to make up your own minds. But… please do so on the basis of FACTUAL information.

Best wishes.

rainbow says:
July 28, 2010 at 9:36 am
thanks for taking the time to explain all that.
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Meljay says:
July 28, 2010 at 9:59 am
Thank you so much for this post. The time you’ve taken to step this out for us is great and, from a non-medical background, it’s made it much easier for me to understand how things can sound very legit on the surface until you start digging.
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C says:
July 28, 2010 at 10:23 am
Thank you for providing a clear and understandable explanation.
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Mia says:
July 28, 2010 at 10:55 am
Thanks GK.
Always great to use facts to dismantle lies!
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Danielle says:

July 27, 2010 at 9:24 pm

Wish I had the energy to respond to this but wholeheartedly agree with you Mia.

I would like to know who all the kids are at the playground who are not vaxed so I can steer well clear of them with any young babies/kids who aren’t fully vaxed yet, but clearly there is no way to do that.

I also wish all those selfish people who don’t vax could donate their vax to a child in the developing world whose parents would chop their right arm off to protect their children against hepatitis, tetanus, whooping cough etc.

kateinlondon says:
July 28, 2010 at 6:00 am
Now THAT is a brilliant idea.
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- rainbow says:
  July 28, 2010 at 9:37 am
  isn’t it.
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ziggy says:

July 27, 2010 at 8:57 pm

What is scary about the AVN site is if you type in vaccinations into google search engine and press “I’m feeling lucky” it takes you there to their site!

Kris2040 says:
July 27, 2010 at 9:08 pm
They should be called the Anti Vaccination Network so people know straight up what their agenda is.
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rainbow says:

July 27, 2010 at 8:32 pm

no surprises there!
thanks for the update

Caroline says:

July 27, 2010 at 8:27 pm

Hi everyone, I am going to spread my limbs here and disagree. Thanks in advance.

1) “And I believe the view that it’s a personal decision is a flawed one because one person choosing not to immunise their children can have devastating and tragic effects on someone else’s child”…..I did my research and read a book that I now find is advertised on the AVN website called Choosing Not To Immunise our Children. I bought the book from another source a few years ago. This book was something that helped me understand what vaccination was, its history and how we use it today and what effects it brings to society and how my child being vaccinated aids in health or not for the individual and society at large. I cannot go into all the things I learnt but I did understand from it that vaccination is only 1 part of the health we enjoy today. Sanitation is one. Nutrition standards is another. A healthier society from clean water, animals and people living separately, higher educations, women’s rights etc have all contributed to our living standard as we enjoy it now. So when your child who is immunised gets sick it is not my non-vaccinated child who *gives* it to yours, yours is sick because of your child’s immune response irrespective of vaccination. Simplified version which I know is open to all sorts of attack but I am putting it out there as best I can from my view…

And also, am I one of the vulnerable parents who view the AVN website because I have wanted, in the past, information about vaccines? I thought I was empowered and informed in making choices given a range of information and as a result, was then educated by this information?

Again, the AVN director harassed this family who lost their child, but using this to point out their *deviousness* is a separate issue. They are not devious, they did not give this family any false information as this family never went to their site FOR information. The site has always remained as it is. They are extreme and while I read a book that is listed on their site, the Directors views are actually not something I agree with. She does sound off the planet in terms of “global conspiracy”…etc. Vaccination was established to help society at a time in our lives and the motivation for vaccination remains something society does as a means to help.

2. “PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THIS STORY SO VULNERABLE PARENTS AREN’T MISINFORMED BY THIS WEBSITE OR THIS DANGEROUS GROUP.” The group is extreme, but a lot of the information on anti-vaccination is just information from another view point. I guess I am wanting to to point out that this comment appears to be saying that parents who want any information about vaccination rather than just going with what the doctor says (which, let’s be frank here, is not EVER about giving information about vaccinations in a broader sense) have completely lost the plot on their civic duty and we need to weed them out. Are you really saying here Mia: Spread the word about the AVN so that parents who are swayed into wanting information (read: crazy idiots!) that may give them an understanding about vaccinations (read: all information other than from a Doctor is FALSE) are made to realise that you have to vaccinate or else!

Deb says:
July 27, 2010 at 8:45 pm
Caroline – this is not about someone pushing a non-government line. If it were that, the HCCC investigation would have been over in a few days. Instead they took 12 months and checked the references provided by the AVN, and they found that the AVN does not understand them, because quite often they directly contradict the conclusions the AVN draws. In other words, the AVN does not give information that can help parents. It distorts and twists the scientific literature to show what they want. In that sense parents are vulnerable, because we don’t expect people to lie to us.
And I submit that there is a plethora of good information on vaccination out there for parents. It ranges from scientific or medical analyses of papers for lay people to personal stories from parents, blogs and magazine articles specifically designed to give parents the correct information about vaccines. The AVN is not part of this.
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- Caroline says:
  July 27, 2010 at 9:05 pm
  Awesome Deb, thanks for explaining exactly why the AVN has been brought to question. I can believe, given the Directors outlandish views that they may have done this. I don’t think that this is clear enough on this blog post. I read that they were “devious” but not that they twisted the findings. Thanks
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  - Kris2040 says:
    July 27, 2010 at 9:09 pm
    It was in the Lateline story, and there are a couple of posts explaining the nitty gritty.
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Mia says:
July 27, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Hey Caroline – Deb explained it but yes, the website is deceitful because it does twist science and does not disclose their anti-vaccination position.
So it is hugely unethical to promote yourself as a balanced site where people can get factual information about vaccinations when
a) the information you present is not factual
b) you don’t disclose your extreme bias upfront
Hope this clarifies what I meant…
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- LouAnn says:
  July 27, 2010 at 11:38 pm
  Yes, the AVN are radical and fanatical and not cool. This is true and they should be stopped. However, there are still two sides to the vaccination story and whilst people should not take info from this organisation, particularly vulnerable people who are just searching for answers, it doesnt mean that the whole ‘anti’ vax argument is in valid. Im not for or against. Im in science and i understand both sides – partic in first world countries. Unless you understand how the body works, it is hard to fully comprehend both arguments. Im just saying that whilst this organisation has it wrong, there are still legit ‘anti’ facts out there. Just like there are fanatical religious groups who ruin the reputation of other non fanatics who may follow the same religion
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  - amandarose says:
    July 28, 2010 at 10:22 am
    I´m a vacinator. But I think people have the right to both sides of the story. I personally have never looked into it too much but i would love to read a summary of why Anti´s are that way and have it explained but a neutral party. for example – the reason why the MMR autism link is not valid and why people think it is( age of shots at same time autism shows up? higher rates of diagnosis not actual autism it self?
    I´d like to know the real story behind why people are so against it and how there logic is flawed. Or wht point they may have. At I love statistics- ie. if your child gets mumps the chances of dying are….. if you vacinate the chances of serious adverse effects are….
    That type of unbiased information would remove the the rug from under the feet of the anti´s.
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July 27, 2010 at 8:25 pm

Unless parents are otherwise warned against vaccinating because of some kind of vulnerability or alergy, that reasonable, but if it is because you think it is going to cause ADD or by some mythical bullshit, then yeah… Sheer ignorance and stupidity.

Ella says:

July 27, 2010 at 5:38 pm

Having worked with children who have autism – with parents who swear black and blue that their child’s condition was caused by their vaccinations – I have sat on the fence about this for a long time.

Until I got whooping cough myself. It’s a nightmare.

Now I’m a nursing student and I love illness prevention. It means that your kids don’t end up in my hospital beds. It means that your kids don’t take up medical resources we need for disease that aren’t preventable. It means that we don’t end up like developing countries; we don’t get illnesses like rubella, chicken pox (as much) and other conditions.

Sure, it’s not perfect – but getting sick from/dying from some condition that should have been left in the 1900s is pretty damn crap too.

Ms. Butlertron says:
July 28, 2010 at 10:18 am
I can understand why some people could believe that vaccinations could cause their childs autism- they’re usually administered at around the same time that it usually becomes apparent. Of course, that’s ignoring the fact that only in very rare cases will autism be caused by environmental factors and not genetics. Sad.
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aprils_fool says:
July 28, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Hi Ella, I’m a nurse as well and contracted Whooping cough, apparently nurses were the biggest group in the community to contract this strain my GP tells me.
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Ms. Butlertron says:

July 27, 2010 at 5:21 pm

When you vaccinate your kids, you`re not doing it so much for them but for the other kids they come into contact with. It`s a social courtesy whereby increasing your own childs immunity to diseases automatically increases the immunity of the herd as a whole. As others on this post have pointed out, vaccines aren`t 100% effective, and there will always be a slim chance they could still contract a disease they`ve been immunised against. However, the more people in the group that are immunised, the less likely that the disease can spread, thus the incidence of the disease is overall lowered. If your kid has a serious reaction to a vaccine then fine, don`t immunise. They`ll probably be protected as long as every other kid in the herd who can be immunised is immunised. But for everyone else who believes it is a personal choice to immunise their kid or not, all I can say is well, it isn`t really about your kid at all.

And as for homeopathy, if you go to youtube and search for `That Mitchell and Webb Look Homeopathy A&E` (sorry, can`t link as I`m at work) you will know my views on homeopathy.

Ms. Butlertron says:
July 27, 2010 at 5:28 pm
By the way, with regards to homeopathy, I didn`t mean to drag it out randomly, as it doesn`t come up in these articles a lot. But I do wish to make the point that it should be in no way considered an effective alternative to an actual vaccine. Also Mitchell and Webb are hilarious.
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- Kris2040 says:
  July 27, 2010 at 8:50 pm
  They are hilarious! I love their show.
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Kris2040 says:
July 27, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Yeah, there have been a few of us point out these points, but apparently its all about the rights of the parents to not immunise their kids, nothing to do with their community responsibilities at all. Jerks.
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- Ms. Butlertron says:
  July 27, 2010 at 7:58 pm
  I did indeed type before I got to read most of the previous comments. But rights? We don’t have a bill of rights, and if we ever got around to one I doubt the minutia of vaccinations would be in it. I know many private child care centres have the right to refuse admittance to non vaccinated kids though…
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  - Kris2040 says:
    July 27, 2010 at 8:04 pm
    Yeah, the stellar argument I got in response to my point of “well if you want rights, you have responsibilities that go with them…” was that my position was noted. That was IT!!! LOL Awesome argument.
    I was talking about this with my friend last week, and as she pointed out – She has a right to send her son to school and know that all the kids are as protected from preventable diseases as possible…
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- Sally T says:
  July 27, 2010 at 11:43 pm
  I think ‘jerks’ is a bit harsh. It actually is the right of the parents. If you had a severly disabled child as a result of vaccination then you may think twice before typing ‘jerks’. We are lucky enough to live in a world with CHOICE. We need to respect others choices. A non vaccinated child is NOT going to make your child sick, so we should just let people make their own choices in life, you never know someones backstory.
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  - Kris2040 says:
    July 27, 2010 at 11:50 pm
    I stand by calling them jerks. I think unless you have a decent medical reason (allergy eg) to NOT vaccinate your kids, you should.
    I’ve said it before on this thread – the “right” to not vaccinate has only become prevalent since Gen Xers (who were all vaccinated) have grown up WITHOUT the diseases we were all vaccinated for. Our parents wouldn’t have dreamed of not getting us vaccinated. Its a luxury that is dangerous.
    My arguments in favour of vaccination are all over this thread if you’d like to have a read.
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    - Sally T says:
      July 28, 2010 at 12:01 am
      As i said above, if you had a child who is severly disbaled as a result of vaccination, you may have think twice about calling them ‘jerks’. As i also said above, you should never judge people without knowing their whole backstory. If mrs Smith down at the park has an unvaccinated child, for her own PERSONAL reasons, then why on earth should she have to justify her choice. Many, many, many people have reasons – legitamite reasons- for choosing not to vaccinate. It is not for you to judge.
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      - Kris2040 says:
        July 28, 2010 at 10:10 am
        What do you count as a legitimate reason though? I think its your kid having an adverse reaction to immunisation. Not some airy fairy hippy ideology of wanting to stick it to the man because its the government. I’ve got no problem with questioning what you’re told, but not doing something just because, or worse, based on dodgy arguments like these clowns’ website is not on. People would kill for their kids to be vaccinated n developing countries. I think its incredibly selfish for people who “just don’t like the idea” to rely on others for their kids’ health and safety. I have said plenty of times, fair enough if there is a legitimate medical issue which makes it dangerous for kids to be immunised, but unless that can be proven, everyone gets immunised.
        What are the many many legitimate reasons you mention?
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    - Sally T says:
      July 28, 2010 at 12:01 am
      *disabled*
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  - Ms. Butlertron says:
    July 28, 2010 at 9:38 am
    With all due respect, in regards to herd immunity which was the basis of my post, a number of non vaccinated children in a herd will make the rest sick. If your child is a medical anomaly and has an averse reaction to a vaccine, fine, don’t vaccinate. But the only thing protecting them is the immunity of the rest of the herd- the kids that are vaccinated. That’s why it’s vital that the kids that can be vaccinated are vaccinated, so they can protect children who can’t be. Just because a disease has been declared ‘eradicated’ doesn’t mean that the virus causing it has been physically vaporised off the face of the planet- it is always there, waiting for a host. You are right in that parents do have a choice to vaccinate their kids or not, as Australia hasn’t mandated compulsory vaccinations yet. However,just as you have a right not to vaccinate, public schools have a right to send your kid home if there is a suspected disease outbreak in a school, and private schools and day care centres have a right to refuse your child admittance altogether, in order to preserve the health of the rest of their charges.
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  - Anonymous says:
    July 28, 2010 at 10:34 am
    “A non vaccinated child is NOT going to make your child sick”
    Guess Dana’s Mum and Dad would disagree with that statement
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    - Kris2040 says:
      July 28, 2010 at 10:55 am
      I was talking about this thread at netball last weekend, and I mentioned the AVN and that they were from the Northern Rivers. One of the girls piped up and said “yeah, that’s where we’re from, I got whooping cough and it was the worst thing ever – coughing constantly, vomiting from it, not being able to sleep from it”. What a great thing to not want to protect yourself, your kids and others from…
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  - Alice says:
    July 28, 2010 at 4:57 pm
    A non-vaccinated child CAN make other people, especially babies who have not reached the age to be properly vaccinated, sick. This is the point many have been making. So it’s not simply a personal choice, it’s a choice with repercussions for the community as a whole. We do not live in an individualist bubble, we live in a society.
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Healthymindbodyspirit says:
July 28, 2010 at 12:11 am
No,Homeopathic vaccinations are not to be considered as a substitute for vaccines. There are many homeopaths out there who will agree im sure. However, for reasons i cannot explain scientifically, i have seen homeopathics work brilliantly in children and animals (therefore not placebo). The Brauer teething relief has worked amazingly on my babaies and on many babies i have given it to in my many years in pharmacy. So just because science cant explain it, dont discount homeopathy completly. If it works, great, homeopathics are for the most part very very safe. I dont understand it – science cant explain it – and homeopathy used to make me very angry. Then i realised that if it was working, then why should i question it?! Its not poison, usually its just water and sometimes a tiny bit of alcohol, so now i just accept it. If it makes people feel better, then great. Prescription meds run on a massive placebo percentage too. Sorry, not having a go, just thought i would explain my experiences. I know this has noting to do with the story at hand and NO dont replace vaccines with homeopathics.. but dont discount homeopathy entirely. xxx
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- AndyD says:
  August 2, 2010 at 11:15 pm
  With dilutions of some ingredients as low as 6C, the Brauer product is not what most people mean when they refer to homeopathic products. At 6C, there is still some active ingredient (Avogadro kicks in at 12C) so it’s almost herbal by comparison to popular 30C “remedies”.
  I’m unable to find out what the vehicle is in the product but it might also have some mild therapeutic value – not to mention the value of rubbing the gums.
  The placebo effect most certainly does apply to animals and children – though it is experienced by the carers who are convinced they see beneficial change.
  And homeopathy should be “discounted” – it’s far too expensive for what you get.
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Anonymous says:

July 27, 2010 at 5:04 pm

They’re a despicable bunch at the AVN. I wish the government could ban their website – someone needs to stop them publishing their lies.

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UPDATED: Australian Vaccination Network- a website of deception

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