GROUP THERAPY: When good friends go bad….
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Welcome to Group Therapy where you get to exchange wisdom with others in the Mamamia community.
Today's question is about toxic friendship….
Amy* writes……
I have been friends with this particular person for about 5/6 years.
We were best friends and I also became quite close to her family. But
over the years she has been very controlling and demanding. When I met
and moved in with my now fiancee she hit the roof and started causing
all sorts of problems. She went after my fiancee's friends and said
that she could have what I have.
We have had many falling out's for which she has never taken any
responsibility for and I have always been the bigger person and
patched things up. There are way too many instances to go through
about what she has done but you can only imagine what it would be
like, with everything revolving around her and having someone trying
to control your life.
As we weren't friends when I became engaged naturally I didn't ask her
to be part of the bridal party. As we patched things up a few months
ago, she started hijacking the planning of our wedding and we have
since had another falling out. I have decided enough is enough and I
don't want to continue having all this trouble in my life. I have
decided not to invite her to the wedding but would have liked her
parents to be there but at the end of the day she is their daughter
and I don't think it would be appropriate to invite them.
Am I doing the right thing and how do I stay strong and not keep
giving in to her all the time and keep patching things up?
*name changed
Over to you. How can Amy avoid being sucked back into the drama of her controlling friend and stay focused on her own happiness?
If you have a problem that could benefit from some collective wisdom, you can anonymously email it here….
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What is your pay-off in all this? What do you get from allowing this ‘friend’ to come into your life and selfishly make demands off you? I know what you are going through. I have been in that situation, and am still in that situation. There is something there from this friend that can’t allow you to severe ties with her completely. Otherwise, you would have told her to efff off long ago. If it’s simply reasurrance you want from us that you are doing the right thing not inviting her to your wedding, then you have it. You have every right not to want her in your life at all if that is what you want. Don’t feel guilty!! Invite her parents though, and explain to them that you love them but cannot tolerate their daughter. They’ll probably understand anyway.
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Good article.
But I still believe in true friendship for all my life!
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Hey Justineinlondon, I would send the presents back, you have known this person long enough to judge her motives and I would go with your gut instinct.
If you have made it clear that you dont want to be friends and like in my case that means no contact then you have to stick your ground, otherwise they will find a way to creep back into your life.
Isn’t it sad that these people still cant even respect your decision to move forward!
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Hi, I have had 3 friends like this. All three were in different categories of self-harm (sex addict, petty crime & abuse). It came to a point where my reputation, sanity and my work was being affected. I was emotionally drained and the late nights of bringe drinking took it’s toll. In the end I took a step back, decided where I wanted to be in 5 years and decided these situations were not going to help me get there. I just stopped being their shoulder to cry on & started looking after myself. Three years on, my friends have new lives, families and new confidence. Ask yourself, Where do I want to be 5-10 years from now? Is this person’s problems going to hamper or benefit my efforts? Goodluck.
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Wow Justine this sounds exactly like something my ‘friend’ did to me. The problem is because there has obviously been so much crap that has gone on you don’t know whether she is being sincere or not.
I learnt that you need to trust your gut feeling & if u think she’s doing it for the wrong reasons she probably is. Maybe send her an email saying thank you but you don’t think it’s appropriate for her to keep sending the gifts.
They’re such horrible situations to be in aren’t they.
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Hi
I too have cut a few frienemies from my life over the years… the last one was about 12 months ago. I hope someone can help with my continuing problem with her.
After a long time I finally woke up and said enough to myself. I tired with this girl, turned the other cheek etc but one day I had just had enough.
The problem is we both have kids and she sends birthday gifts to my children from her kids.
Am I supposed to acknowledge the presents. If so, how? So far my husband has sent her husband a ‘thank you’ email to her husband to which he replied, ‘dont thank me, it’s my wife who organised and sent the present.’
I just dont want to go anywhere near the girl. Its too bloody hard with this person. She is an energy saper to say the least. Its just never gonna work with us as friends.
The synic in me says she’s sneding the gifts so she still appears the ‘bigger’ and better person. But what she has done to me in the past is beyond forgiving or forgetting for me. I just wish she’d go away.
Is she the bigger and better person? Is it OK for me to still want nothing to do with her even if she does insist on sending birthday gifts to my kids? ARGH!
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A friendship ended 5 yrs ago for me, it was very difficult at the time, I did send her an email explaining how I felt and how hurt I had been over the years by things she had said and the way she had made me feel, like you said Amy all those things add up and you get to the point of no return.
Unfortunately this ‘friend’ didn’t accept my decision to move on and I was forced to cut all contact.
Since that friendship has ended, I have never felt better, it was almost a liberating experience, I think it has matured me alot & made me a stronger person, occasionally I do think about her & wonder what would have been but I know in my heart I am truly happy & I’m not willing to let ‘anyone’ take that away from me again.
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I’ve been both sides of this one. Several years ago I broke off contact with a friend right after I had my first baby after realising how damaging cotinuing the friendship would be. I saw both sides though, and think that it was equally as negative for her. Still, maybe had I not been so sleep deprived I could have managed it better.
Then last year I was ‘dumped’ by friend (through another friend, and we are almost 40…) because I hadn’t been there for her in the last few years. Possibly true as I had 3 kids in 4 years and pretty much did nothing that didn’t need to be done. It was about self preservation for me at that time. I also felt that she hadn’t been there for me but was ok with that as I assumed that after a 25 year friendship eventually we’d find some way to reconnect. So that’s the way a really long and for a long time really close friendship ended. Over it? Not so much. Nothing nasty happened so I don’t really know why the dumping needed to be so dramatic.
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Stephanie – I don’t think any of the comments are reflective of ‘randomly cutting people out of your life’ – but sometimes friends bring too much negativity and pain into your life. So whilst I am not keen to be randomly cutting people out of my life, if someone does something that affects my life, then my priority is me & my feelings … NOT them & their feelings.
I think it’s a little sad that you can’t understand how a friend could affect your whole life – some of us are close enough to our girlfriends that they are a part of every aspect of our lives …. my falling out with my friend affected me in a way that impacted every part of my life – cutting someone near and dear to you out of your life is heart wrenching.
You mention a partner who hurts you and scares you daily – this seems like much more of a concern to me, than the character flaws you feel that some of us have. Good luck with your relationship.
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Miss Manley, Stephanie and anonforthis1, lovley to see some positive opinions showing compassion and understanding. You sound like lovely people
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Stephanie, i think you’ll find that many of the comments recommended trying to make the person aware of their behaviour first and then, only if this doesn’t work, cutting them out. Not randomly or with no second chances. You’ve obviously had a bad experience, and i’m sorry for that, but i don’t think that is what was being suggested.
When i said ‘overall negative effect’ i didn’t mean they were effecting every aspect of your life – i meant you will have great memories and not-so-great memories with that person, but when you think about them ‘overall’ are they good for you?
I hope that makes more sense!
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MissManly and anonforthis1 – thank you – all I have to say really – just nice to know that there are others out there on the same wavelength , not just rnadomly cutting people out of their lives because they are ‘hard work’ or ‘being stupid right now’. aquaintences sure – yeah – abandon away – but everyone at the moment seems so keen to be rid of ANYONE who does anythign that goes against their unwritten and unknown code, with no second chances, no words but those of the worst kind…amy yes, in your case I’d say let her go, but let her know why, just so its a clean ‘break’ if nothing else, be dignified about it.
see – I don’t understand how a friend can have an overall negative effect on your life – how do they get involved in EVERYTHING? Partners,yes, am fighting that battle at the moment, but am not cutting him out, even though he hurts me and scares me daily – yet HE is more than this, just this, he is a three demensional person who has good times and bad times and to me, people, are worth it long term, pretty much no matter what. As long as i can talk to them about it and they understand why I’m upset or hurt, and the same applies the other way. Sorry about the long ramble.
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Just to clarify, i use the word ‘toxic friend’ to describe a person who has an overall negative effect on your life. I admit i am surprised that there are so many people who have had experiences with friends like this, but i think the term definately applies in Amy*’s case.
But whatever term you use, i think we agree that if someone is making you feel bad (and they are not going to change) then it is time to let that person go – there are plenty of other great people out there.
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It’s just a natural part of life that as we grow and change so do our friendships- school friends, uni friends, work friends etc. When a friendship is no longer contributing in a positive way to your life it’s best to move on.
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Hmmm…I suggest looking up narcissistic or histrionic personality disorder. Might explain some things and allow you to feel pity rather than anger.
Lies and causing trouble is what I call “intentionally malicious’. A genuine effort to cause damage is a no no. It IS time to let go.
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Hi MissManly, understand ur need for more info, the problem is I could go on all day. I have in fact given this ‘friend’ about 4 good chances to patch things up. When I say she went after my fiancee’s friends, she hooked up with them, yes which is their business, but then started telling them lies and trying to cause trouble between my fiancee and his friends. It got quite messy.
A couple of examples and then I’ll stop. She told me that I could have her old ‘fat clothes’ because they’d fit me now. She also told me that I only loved my fiancee because he ‘had a nice house’. Seems silly, but those things hurt. So many little things that all built up inside.
I agree when you say time to (gently) let go. No need to be nasty, just time to move on.
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Hmm…isn’t it amazing that despite Amy hardly disclosing any facts, despite that the friend in question wants too much say in the wedding, everyone have formed an opinion that the friend is ‘toxic’ and must be dropped immediately?
To be honest, I need more information.
I also detest the word ‘toxic’. It is a bit of a modern jargon which is abused by everyone. Do you guys even know what it means?
Check the web – the definitions are plentiful. Everyone so helpfully comes up with their own. Interestingly, when describing ’5 traits of toxic people’, some of them sound pretty toxic themselves.
It is also interesting that everyone seemed to know someone who is toxic. Everyone? What about you then? The chances are someone out there is saying the same thing about you, if toxic people are so prevalent.
In my humble opinion, the person needs to be intentionally malicious to be branded toxic. Or narcissistic in a clinical sense. A lot of personality issues are just a lack of awareness of their actions and other emotional intelligence skills.
Amy says ‘she went after my fiance’s friends’. I need more understanding of this sentence…Was she trying to hook up with some of them? Well, that’s really her own business. Your fiance’s friends have free will…
Look, friends are not just for the good times. They are not resident entertainers. Like everyone else in your life, they will make you happy and they will make you sad. Everyone goes through a dark period in their life, including a period of being an ass. A good friend will tactfully point that out, and give them a chance to understand what effect they have on people.
Without knowing too much about your circumstances, you are obviously not sure what to do, it is not all black and white, otherwise you would not be asking these questions. Have you ever actually told the girl how she makes you feel? Perhaps you could give that one last go. If she refuses to acknowledge any responsibility for how bad things have become between you, and only blames you – well, then it is time to (gently) let go.
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Life is too short to be around people who are hard work.
I cut my maid of honour out of the wedding party (and my life completely, unfortunately that meant loosing her husband as a friend who my partner and I loved) 2 weeks before the wedding. Best decision I ever made. She was extremely controlling, not surprisingly they are now separated.
Maintaining a friendship with the parents will be hard, good luck if you choose that path.
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From the perspective of someone that has been broken up with, without the opportunity to state their case, I’d like to suggest that you do in fact write her a letter or try to explain how she makes you feel.
If your friend still doesn’t change her ways or try to mend the friendship then you know she’s really not worth being in your life.
I still think about the friend that cut off all contact with me, almost daily. My feelings range from anger, thinking he’s a fool for not listening to me and then feeling that I must be a terrible worthless person for being able to be cut out of someone’s life without a second thought.
If nothing else remember the good times you had with your friend and try to end the relationship (if that’s what you decide) with a little dignity for you both.
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The wonderful Mamamia community never ceases to amaze me!
I just want to say thank you everyone for their great comments, it really has all been weighing on my mind for quite some time. I felt like I was only 90% of the way to cutting off the friendship but it is amazing what support from complete strangers can do!
Here’s cheers to staying strong and to all the wonderful and beautiful friends we have in our lives!
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Sometimes, friends don’t even have to be toxic – they can be lazy, indifferent or you can grow apart and have completely different interests, morals and values, and you just have to let them go.
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Cut all communication with her.
Be ready for confrontation. If you have no choice, tell her upfront that you no longer want her in your life.
Then sit back and enjoy the great feeling of taking control of your life after breaking up with your toxic friend =]
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