KT says:
March 15, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Amber, i’m ...
Do the Disney Princesses set little girls up for disappointment?
Here is Snow White as she may well have turned out after we closed the book on her particular fairytale.
I
went on Today last week to talk about the Disney Princesses and how
they can set little girls up for profound disappointment when they grow
up and….
…eventually discover that there IS no Prince Charming who is going
to come to their rescue on a white horse. Girls? You have to be
prepared to save yourselves.
[thanks for this pic GlitterMixedWithRockAndRoll]
I've
written about this before and to those of you with daughters older than
about 3, my revelation that the Disney stories are in fact a sad tale
of what it means to be female will be nothing new. You've no doubt been
watching the DVDs and reading the books for long enough that the
messages may barely register anymore.
But my daughter is 3 and for
the past few months, with NO encouragement from me, in some form of
weird genetic or social conditioning phenomenon, she has become
obsessed with Cinderella and Snow White and Sleeping Beauty and Beauty
and the Beast and all the other stories like that which make me want to
claw my own face off. The messages – both visual and metaphorical – are
SOOOOO BAD that I genuinely despair.
Pixar is just about to
release their 12 film. It's called 'Up" and it's about an
Asian-American boy. ALL the Pixar films have been about little boys and
they've just announced the 13th will be about a girl. Guess what she
is? A BLOODY PRINCESS.
Karl played devil's advocate in our
interview and said that every girl is 'daddy's little princess' which
is fine but I sometimes fear we're raising a generation of entitled
little girls who grow up to be Paris Hilton – the grown up human
princess. Or have I just had too much Panadol today?
I used
to think people who complained about how they thought Barbie and the
Disney Princesses were bad for girls were over-reacting. That's
because I had A SON. What did I know? There aren't a whole lot of bad
psychological messages in Thomas The Tank (are there?).
But now?
Now I know plenty. Now I know how much I detest these stories about
hungry, skinny victim girls who are in sad and dangerous situations and
can only be saved by handsome princes. The only way to live happily
ever after is to be kissed by a prince and have a big fat bloody
wedding. Feminism, hello?
Harmless fun and escapism do you say?
I would agree with that except that I know far too many women in their
20s and 30s and 40s who are still waiting for that Prince, still
baffled he hasn't yet shown up to rescue them from their lives, still
obsessing that he WILL show up eventually and make everything Happily
Ever After. And by the way, the whole rescue thing? Far too much
pressure to put on the blokes if you ask me.expecting them to turn up
and save us?
Well guess what girls? You have to be prepared
to save yourself. And 'complete' yourself. It will make you far more
appealing to a future partner, trust me on that. And maybe? Maybe
your handsome prince will be an IT geek. Or have a facial piercing. Or
a mental illness. Or be a woman. Or a job. Or a child. Or a dog you
rescued from the pound. Or just inner peace.
Happily Ever After comes in all shapes, sizes and skin colours, all genders and all forms.
So
is it too much to ask that we have some alternate narratives to share
with our daughters? Not just victimy princesses with hand-span waists
and an inability to be self-sufficient?
Now, I'm off to sit Coco
down and read her Germaine Greer's Female Eunich while making her watch
Julia Gillard in Question Time……IT'S ALL FUN IN MY HOUSE.
Are you still waiting for Prince Charming to rock up on a horse and save you? Are you worried that our daughters might get this message? Where are the alternatives?
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I’m 23, and like most girls I grew up with the Disney movies. I was actually a bit of a tomboy when I was little and prefered the boy characters to the girl ones. I like the Disney princesses more now than I did then. I think a lot of people are very hard on them. They judge them all by Snow White and Aurora. Cinderella was actually one tough cookie. She was put through neglect and humiliation but she remained positive and kind and uncynical. How many people manage that? Ariel was given a chance to go out and get what she wanted for herself, but at a price, and she went for it. Belle doesn’t want to be some he-man’s little wife, she wants adventure. She is smart and rolls her eyes at Gaston’s sexist remarks. Jasmine doesn’t like the way her life is so she leaves to try to find a better one. She stands up for herself and won’t let herself become some man’s ‘prize’. Pocahontas is wise and brave and saves the day herself, as does Mulan, who is one of the army’s best soldiers. So Snow White is domestic and needs to be saved, and Aurora spends most of her movie asleep. Not all women are the same, and not all women are strong. They need representing too!
What you get from these movies is all about the way you read them, and the way you read them will often be influenced by the rest of your culture and by the attitudes and values of the people in your life. With the exception of Snow White and Aurora I don’t think that the girls need a man to ’save them’, they simply wanted to love and be loved, and whether by a twist of fate, the help of furry creatures and fairy godmothers, or by their own merits, they all achieved this. I do think though that a lot of women are turned on by the idea of being rescued from danger by a handsome man.
They find it romantic. It’s an indulgent fantasy.
As for growing up expecting to find Prince Charming, there’s nothing wrong with dreaming so long as the girl realises that it is a hope rather than a given, and that they can find their Prince Charming in more everyday men. That’s something that other movies/TV, people in their lives and their own experiences will teach them. At the same time there’s no reason for them to be cynical and believe that there’s no such thing as Prince Charming or happily ever after. One of the things the Disney Princess range does reach girls is to dream. And I think that’s a good thing.
I absolutely adore all those classic fairytales. I think its a wonderful dream to have in the back of your head… a “wouldn’t it be nice” dream but that’s where it ends and we all know it. I say let the kids be kids and dream and imagine – cos that’s what childhood is all about.
And if you really do have a problem with it, you can read kids books like Babette Cole’s Prince Cinders or Princess Smartypants, which are modern takes on classic fairytales, and they’re more girl-powerish.
Or you can tell the kids the original versions of all those Disney fairytales. I’m pretty sure the Little Mermaid committed suicide in Hans Christian Andersen’s original story.
Fairytales are fun and harmless, and the girls will grow out of them eventually and realise there is much more to life than being whisked off to a castle by a handsome prince.
I was very girly and into princesses etc until I was about 7 and then an out-an-out tom boy. I don’t think watching Disney princesses will make girls think they need to be rescued by a man if other more empowering messages surround them in their daily life. But, I do hate how costumes for girls are always about being pretty and special just because of that. Boys get to be superheros like spiderman and DO things to be cool and respected. The message for girls is we should aspire to look good and be WANTED by others. It’s about what THEY think of us. And I do think this message is far too prevalent in society and it does muck with the heads of young women.
And don’t get me started on fairytales and their message of instant love and happy ever afters that were “meant to be”. This doesn’t exactly set us up for real life or real relationships with real flawed people. There is no Prince Charming and love does not conquer all.
Kelly
Hehe, my happily ever after IS an IT geek. With a facial piercing. And a child
As for tv? On the rare occasion that I put my daughter in front of the tv, she gets ‘Ahhh! Real Monsters’ and ‘Tintin’. I never really liked the Disney princesses and hopefully neither will she.
Having grown up on a steady Princess diet and living in my Sleeping Beauty nightie when I was 4, I have to say that most girls like me would have realised that a fairy tale is just that.
I think little girls are drawn to those who resemble them and being a little blondie I was obsessed with anyone else blonde (Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty but also the blonde girl from Captain Planet and Shelley Craft when she hosted Saturday Disney).
Realism does set in at a certain age and the Princess and fairytale dreams get replaced by other fasinations – mine was cheerleaders and dolphins!
Fox – thanks for the reminder – yes, Shrek is good. But still, another Princess being rescued! I know I’m being pedantic but…..
Helen – I’ll take that suggestion on board!
AS as been said before me, give more credit to your childrens, they are clever and smart, they know very well what’s fantasy and reality, their most important role model are the parents, mom and dad, and the role they play with each others, by the way to me the best fary tale is “Pinocchio”,full of good morals still relevant for today world we live in, love to all
Hey Mia,
We found this whole princess thing surprising and worrying, too. Don’t know where it came from but my daughter was gripped for a while.
Unlikely though it may seem I actually find the Barbie films quite a bit less distorting in this regard: the females are certainly stronger and the men are either “equal” or a bit lost and in need of the leading lady’s help.
Definitely worth checking out if there’s a princess fix needed…
One of the seminal films I recall being obsessed with as a young girl was My Brilliant Career with Judy Davis and Sam Neil. Sybilla is a strong, smart, anti Disney inspiation for girls and even though she does not end up with her prince there is still wonderful romance to get caught up in…and horses!!
I wonder if we aren’t giving our kids enough credit – I mean, the princess stories are fairy tales, they are pretend. My daughter knows that, and I don’t think that by allowing her to watch the movies and play with the dolls that I am complicit in sending her some sort of anti-feminist message. I don’t think she is getting any message at all, except that she loves to play with dolls (amongst other things) and playing imaginary games is fun. My son loves superheroes at the moment, but he knows they aren’t real – he knows that in real life, people don’t get saved every time they are in trouble.
Besides, the ‘fairy tale’ message is propagated everywhere, not just in toys and books for children – it is in the ‘chick lit’ we read, the ‘chick flicks’ that we love to watch, the ‘real life romance’ stories that are in the magazines we read…Personally I think it’s these things that send the wrong message, because they place the fairy tale into real life, making it seem like it’s real, like it is attainable for anyone. At least the Princess stories are very obviously make-believe.
Give me the princesses over Bratz any day – if any doll is sending the wrong message, it is those hideous things.
Thanks Fox, that is a magnificant idea! No damsel in distress there!
About time you and your little girl watched “SHREK”…. Princess Fiona is a kickass princess who happens to be an OGRE…. No hand span waist there…. and a girl that can take care of herself…. She may fall in love, but Shrek is no stereotype prince either.
Some thoughtful soul (nothing but love to you Jodes really) gave my daughter a DVD with a medley of Disney Princess stories on it. If I watch it one more time I may just drop kick it over the back fence.
It’s consequences are many and varied, today’s being that my gorgeous girl will only answer to the name ‘Ariel’ rather than Victoria! This one is relatively mild but I am sure that gang of flakes are going to come back to haunt us in years to come!
It’s not Disney, it’s not Barbie, it’s imagination. Please allow the natural inclinations of your daughter to run free. Imagination is the creative factor in our lives, and isn’t it wonderful that it starts so early on. Whether princesses or warlords, or whatever fantasy, it certainly isn’t Germane Greer or feminism. Let them have a childhood. Let them create whatever reality they desire.
In such young years realities never collide, it’s quite ok to create empires, fortresses, battles or whatever game you can imagine, yet equally to run home at 5 o’clock, cos that’s dinner time. Dad’s home from work, Mum’s calling you. And never once does the fantasy evaporate. It’s always there the next day when you go out to play, until one day you’re too old to want to do it anymore, and your friends in the fantasy are no longer there, they were real friends, but now you have other friends. You still go home to Mum’s call, though she doesn’t call you so much anymore, she knows you’ll be there. Dad starts asking more serious questions at dinner, or not even talking to you, arguing with Mum instead. He probably always did, just that you never noticed it.
Your little sister is no longer your playmate when the boys aren’t around, she’s now an alien.
One day you chase the dog under the house, and see a patch of dirt, and concrete stumps, and for a minute you remember the fortress and the mud cities you built. But puberty beckons and your friends are forgotten, the fantasies are thrust aside, there are now girlfriends to dream about.
Mum starts by saying, ‘I think you use this deodorant.’ And you do. As do all your friends in high school. And that is the end of childhood.
It’s not the end of imagination, because for some of us, you can never extinguish that spark, but it is the end of ‘no responsibility’.
For those lucky enough to have chased a dog under the house, imagined mud cities, built empires, or dreamt of princes and princesses, they are the lucky ones, for they will always continue dreaming.
They’ll carry the dream over into their twenties and further. It won’t be mud cities, as it was for me, it won’t be princesses as it was for another, but their dreams will be fueled by a life imagined, just as mine are.
I think Mariah Carey is much more dangerous than Disney Princesses.
Over 90% of her songs paint a picture of her being a damsel in distress of some sort.
GlitterMixedWithRockNRoll, I edit stories I don’t like the plots for e.g. Cinderella. If it features those damsel in distress type characters, I just change round the plot so it gives a more suitable message. It ends up being a lot more entertaining that way too.
I am a single (divorced) Mum. My 6 year old daughter was watching “Enchanted” just recently. At one point I looked across to see her with tears welling up in her eyes. I asked her what on earth the matter was and she said “Happily Ever After isn’t real is it Mummy?”. I asked her why she thought that. She said “You and Daddy didn’t have ‘happily ever after’ did you?”. Gosh, it was heartbreaking but it gave me a good opportunity to talk about the truth of where true happiness comes from. It isn’t about finding fulfillment in another person. It’s found within.
Oh boy do I dread the day I have kids and they want to watch/read all of the freaking fairytales in which the prince charming comes along and rescues the poor damsel in distress.. Argh!
While we can’t totally take away the prince and princess from children’s stories as we want them to have some hope and innocence in their childhood, we really shouldn’t emphasise the appearance of a prince for little girls.
I don’t think many girls will find the wonderful man they dream of when they grow up the same way we women grew up to find this to be the case. So, why set our daughters up for disappointment?
When our little girls ask questions about the future, don’t paint it rosy to the degree that the poor girls will grow up with rose-coloured glasses. Emphasise the need to be clever about picking the goodies from the baddies, and try to instil in them the notion that the world is mixed. Not all people are nice and some people are downright horrible.
It might hurt to hear it, but it would be a lot more hurtful to grow up and see mean people people in all their glory when our children grow up thinking everyone is nice. I’ve ensured I’ve provided a realistic picture for my children as they grow, and certainly haven’t encouraged my daughter to believe that some guy will necessarily come and sweep her off her feet when she grows up.
He might well come along, but I’ve encouraged her to have an education and enjoy her life rather than sit around and wait. That way she’ll be a happy and fulfilled person and attract him for that reason.
Mia, you’re intelligent and write well. Why not write your own book/script for this age group: something you’d be more comfortable having your daughter watch?
Nena I hear you on the Barbie movies- as my girls are into them WAY more than the princesses actually. I’ve given up trying to resist. They get given the movies as gifts by a very indulgent grandmother. They aren’t too bad though, igf you can get over the fact you’re watching a Barbie movie.
Hey, it beats the Wiggles in my book!
The eldest really like Jane & the Dragon as well.
There are tonnes of alternatives to the Disney thing if you go looking.
I just read all the commnets, along wiht Mr20, and he reminded me of something far more disturbing than Happily Ever After.
Recently, we had to make an emergency trip to A&E (all ended well). Siting/pacing the waiting room, music videos are on. I was gobsmacked – my kids used to love watching the music video showes, and by the look of things that day, modern pre-schoolers are no different. But what they see surely is!
I know I am off-topic, but really, the carry-on and messages sent in those videos – and no I am not the only one who thinks so, Mr20 mentioned it that day and just now, is far more frightening to me as a parent than a wee bit of escapism.
I also grew up watching Disney and as it has been said, they were just stories for us.
How is it any different to grown women reading chick lit with a happily-ever-after-esque ending? Women of all ages resort to thinking a man will fix their lives and magically make everything better, this cant be purely pinned to Disney Princesses. The fact that they are princesses obviously signals that this isnt real life. Frankly, I would be more concerned if it was a ‘real’ girl who just hung around waiting to be rescued…
That said, I never really saw the ‘Prince Charming coming to rescue the princess’ thing until people pointed it out. Jasmine wants to make her own way and ends up choosing Aladdin for love, not for what society was telling her. Belle found love in an unexpected and socially abnormal situation, Ariel made the most of an opportunity and was adventurous, etc. etc.
I dont think Disney has as much to answer for as society says. At some point, society has to stop pointing the blame elsewhere and accept that parenting is crucial in the attitudes children grow up with.
As for one of Mia’s previous posts about how Coco wanted an iron and an ironing board despite Mia’s loathing of said chore: my mum was, is, and always has been a tomboy – she still mows the lawn. She very rarely wears makeup, and loathes clothes shopping. I on the other hand am a cross between a tomboy and a girly girl. I wear makeup most days, love clothes shopping and actually enjoy cooking and cleaning (when I was growing up, my mum paid me to do the housework because she hated it, and I did a better job).
There is no influence in my life that made me domestic or girly, its just the way I am. I think sometimes we are just wired differently, and even though sometimes children arent exposed to certain things growing up (e.g. for me, having a mum that did her hair and makeup) doesnt mean they wont become parts of who they are.
I’m not sure if I articulated that as well as I could have but my brain is a big pile of mush at the moment.
Mia, my oldest daughter is 18 this year and my other two are 16 and 14. They have been raised with Disney and believe me when they hit highschool , get boyfriends, part-time jobs, exams and so on,they get the picture very quickly. Don’t fret about it, just let your daughter enjoy her fantasy land and being a little girl, hell I still love a Cinderella story. I simply gushed when Mary Donaldson became a Princess (more so because I am only a few days older than her and well..not a princess)
I must admitt, I was a real Disney fan when I was growing up. I particularly liked Beauty and the Beast…which I think had a real good storyline. It wasnt your typical Disney Princess movie.
At the end of the day, every girl..every woman deserves to feel like a princess. But yes I think we need a more realistic depiction of all the different types of princess we can be.
We can be a single mother, career woman, student etc etc etc.
Am I waiting for my prince charming? I’m not looking for a man to save me. I am just looking for a man to share life with. Jesus Christ is my Saviour.
Plus, I think all women at one point or another have looked to a man to be their “saviour” and saw the horrible results from that. It never works.
I think fairytales can be a very important part of childrens lives. For some, it can be a place of escape from terrible family life, it can teach them to stretch their imagination, it can teach them that no matter how bad things are…it can be okay in the end.
Stuff about..”not relying on a man” etc etc..isnt really important at that age. Often girls at a young age want to marry their Dad lol. Its just part of growing up. Part of developing their worldview. If we try to protect them too much..they will lose that child-like, dreamy, romantic side to themselves too soon.
A little fantasy, a little indulgence is ok for a child. Let them live in that blissful perfect world while they can still get away with it!
Jane and The Dragon (co-produced by NZ’s Weta Workshop) is a pretty good TV show which subverts all that usual princess stuff. The magazine I write for did a profile on the show’s creator, Martin Baynton and he was a really interesting guy doing lots to work against the princess stereotypes (plus his characters never use contractions when they speak – sweet). You might want to start your daughter on this, Mia, before going the full Germaine Greer!
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I don’t know if the Disney Princesses have any real impact on little girls…but it’s possible I guess…
Maybe they’re setting in train something that sets girls up to go through their teenage years preparing themselves for the “one”
Maybe the action heroes that little boys model themselves on during their play time set them up to be aggressive.
I’m not sure.
I know I grew up on fairy tales and I got through the first part of my adult life looking after myself.
I supported myself, bought my own home, moved interstate for work etc, without a partner to help me along the way.
But, according to some of the comments, maybe fairy tales have had an impact in making a woman feel like there has to be someone out there to “complete her”
Is it possible that while many women think the fairy tales have had no real impact on them, subconsciously they’re still waiting for the prince on the white horse to rock on by
I tend to agree with you Mia. I’m going to try and avoid the Disney Bus if I can.
Am I the only pone who thinks Disney is a bit daggy? I always thought The Smurfs were cooler. I AM 30, maybe that’s it?
I can’t see myself actively buying princess-style movies for my 2 year old as such. But never say never, I suppose. She has a few princess-y type books, but I try to avoid reading them as they’re just so dull and the female characters are often so needy and dull themselves.
I’m hoping I’ll set a good example for my daughter about what kind of woman she can be – one who uses her brain, works hard and cares about others and doesn’t compromise on who she is.
Here’s hoping, anyway.
First movie I saw was snow white and I still love it. Does anyone miss the good points? evitl triumphs over bad? Being a good person lands you on your feet in the end. Beauty in the Beast- you can love someone even if they look like a monster. That love is good.Theat bad things happen to bad people. They don’t all speak like morons with all that “totally cool” slang. I bought my daughter, Dorothy form the Wizard of Oz and Mary Poppins and they all have beautiful morals to them.
I am no princess and never thought I was, Disney or no Disney.
I grew up with Disney. I was obsessed with Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast and Pocahontas and Sleeping Beauty. But even as a young girl, I never thought these were real stories. They were just something fun to watch or read or play. I never got the message that females needed to be rescued by handsome princes. And I am certainly not waiting around for my Prince Charming to sweep me off my feet.
I also played with Barbies and never once wanted or thought I needed to look like her. I never really thought about how her body looked, I just liked to put her in pretty clothes and stick her in her camper-van for a BBQ with Ken!
I think these ‘messages’ you are worried about, go right over children’s heads.
Little girls want to be princesses because they get to wear pretty dresses, not because they have perfect figures or get their own Prince Charming.
I’m 18 and watched beauty and the beast THREE TIMES this weekend. and no i was not baby sitting.
personally, i love these movies but they do send terrible messages to little girls. these princesses dont have to work for their men, they dont have to deal with jealous ex’s and work/school/life/relationship/family balances. they make little girls believe they’ll marry te first person they kiss, and that life will be 100% happy after they do so.
i dont remember thinking any of these things when i watched them when i was little, and it wasnt untill i was about 12 that i realised the messages that these movies send to little kids. they probably dont sink in much though, as my prince charming smokes and has facial piercings
My four-year-old has just started getting into the Barbie movies in a big way. Have to say they are nowhere near as bad as I thought they were going to be. In fact, what I have seen so far is quite high quality (12 Dancing Princesses, Swan Lake, Mermaidia) I mean they use proper classical music and the ballet animation is outstanding. And in Mermaidia the handsome Prince spends most of his time hanging uselessly upside down waiting for Barbie to come to his rescue..and she’s not even interested in him, he’s ‘just a friend’ and at the end she’s happy to go off into the sunset with her pet puffball. Think my daughter wants her own puffball more than she wants a handsome prince.
They’ll still grow up to find out ‘happy ever after’ doesn’t exist – why not let them pretend for as long as possible? I’m not at all happy with the messages they send, but I hope I (and my husband) are a stronger influence on my kids than Walt Disney is.
If my kids become obsessed with princesses, and are STILL obsessed with them after hitting puberty, I’ll worry then.
I’m more concerned about shielding them from Video Hits and other such soft porn.
My 4 year old son quite enjoys watching princess and barbie type movies. I think the male characters in these shows are a positive role model for little boys beacuse they show how to treat lady nicely! Much better than some of the real males out there in our society!
I see where you’re coming from Mia – but I disagree. As another Gen Y’er who grew up on Disney, I am under no sort of belief that a prince is going to come along and rescuse me someday. I adore the Disney stories – they’re not meant to be real, they’re idealistic. Yes, the princesses are unrealistic and thin, but who really cares? They’re also drawn. I think the modelling and acting industries have far more to answer for there. I have a cousin, four, who adores the princesses. On any given day, she may be Cinderella, or Rapunzel, or Snow White. I honestly can’t see it scarring her adversely, because she has parents who will bring her up with good values. As many others have said, ultimately it’s Mum and Dad who’ll have the most impact on how a kid turns out.
Furthermore, I think if we’re discussing girls being set up for disappointment and waiting to be ‘rescued’, movies aimed at older people have far more to answer to. The Notebook – Allie is ’saved’ by both Noah and Lon. Grease – Sandy changes so Danny will like her. West Side Story – Maria is willing to throw her life away to blindly follow a guy she met a few days ago. Casablanca – Ilsa is basically bossed around by Rick and Victor the whole movie. Dirty Dancing – Baby seems incapable of living without Johnny.
Everything we view can have negative influences if we look hard enough. The key is to just accept things for what they are – harmless fun – and, most importantly, realise that we, as adults, read far more into Disney than a four year old ever will.
I do like Disney but having two older brothers definitely cancelled out the ‘princess’ stage of my childhood. It was all about surfing and guitars. Of course I loved Disney but I never liked the Princess stage! I think as someone else mentioned I loved the animal movies most, particularly The Lion King.
And are there really girls out there waiting for a prince charming? Waiting/wanting to find love and waiting for a dashing solution to all your problems in the form of a man are quite different things…
I don’t disagree, but I know I’d rather my girls (of the future) be watching disney movies than bratz or anything on any of the pay tv music channels. At least with disney movies they get some sort of inclination of the fact that they should be treated well by men (as opposed to in 90% of the music videos on today).
and to be fair to pixar, monsters inc was abotu monsters and a little girl, nemo was about animals (and featured a little [human] girl, cars was about cars and the incredibles featured a little boy and a teenage girl. and wall-e was robots.
but yes, I get what you mean. The princess thing is overdone.
Oh I dont know has it really done us much harm? We all had parents and lives. I grew up being more influenced by my parents than Cinderella.
I think there are more adults looking at Hollywood with rose coloured glasses than children looking at fairytales? Aren’t Brad and Angelina a modern day Disney story? New Idea and Woman’s Day have more fantasy in them then the Grimms Fairy Tales ever did.
I think we need a bit of fantasy in our dismal world. And if we cant have a bit of fantasy as a preschooler that what hope is there in life?
Maybe you should write a classic yourself?
I’m not bagging Disney films Disney fan…I love them!
And for every article that “proves” that SEX is SFX and the erection is a badly drawn knee there is another one saying that they are what they look like!
Of course Disney are going to come up with an explanation for why these things accidentally landed in these films…it sounds much better than “oops…some randy animator thought he would sneak a personal joke into the film”!
It wasn’t meant to be too serious…just a funny and random fact about Disney I gathered in my semester of research!
Tara… they’re pretty old ‘facts’, and the ‘SEX’ has actually been confirmed as saying ‘SFX’, and that erection is a (badly drawn) knee.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the princess thing as long as your mental development doesn’t stop at 3 yrs. old.
There’s a time and place in a woman’s life to be a princess.
What woman doesn’t like getting dressed up to the nines to go a ball every now and then. And its healthy to still believe in love and marriage etc. even if Prince Charming isn’t/ can’t possibly fulfill your every dream. Too much cynism can be a bit soul destroying too.
do you really think that these 3+ year olds have been influenced by the cartoon characters they see every day to the point where it rules their grown-up lives – even subconsciously? How about the boys that watched He-Man when we were kids (I’m in my 30’s), did they grow up thinking that they were going to be Master of the Universe and She-Ra would be his ‘woman’? I think it’s so much more than Disney’s fault here… blame the media for one… look at how the pap follows Brittney and Paris’ every move… making it look ok to behave that way to the teens, tweens and even younger girls of the world. Now we can blame the parents – the 2 women I just mentioned have parents that don’t seem to give a crap about what their kids do or how they behave – or make excuses for them. These women were behaving this way long before they were ‘adults’. I grew up watching Disney movies… and all the rest. My mind is about as warped as anyone else’s, but my parents and my personal experiences have shown me how to achieve what I want and not dwell on what I don’t or can’t have. Our children will be influenced a lot over the years by a lot of stuff we don’t necessarily want them to be in touch with – it’s our job as their parent to show them the reality of the world.
I can see where you are coming from – I really do. But I cant help but let our 4 year old daughter immerse herself in the world of Disney fantasy. Our childhood is such a magical time in our life. I would hate to suppress my child in anyway. It is a shame that when we become adults the realities of life make it a stretch to keep the dream alive.
Missamoo, I haven’t seen (or read, for that matter), the Hunchback of Notredam, but after having read the abridged kid’s version of Peter Pan, and seen the Disney Movie, I was absolutely amazed at how much had been chopped and changed when I read the original last year. For one thing, in the original, Tinkerbell is a jealous little bitch, and in the movie, she’s just a pretty little fairy. A lot more people die, too, and then there’s the whole Oedepus (sp?) complex that Peter has going on…and it’s not just Disney, either. Have you ever seen the “junior” production of into the woods? They ditch the second act entirely, just cause people keep dying.
Hey now…I found my Prince in the toilet yesterday…
I love Disney Princeses.
I’m fifteen and do realise that life isn’t always about happily ever after, but there’s just such a cute message to them. The original versions are quite gruesome, but I’m definitely going to love watching them over and over again with my potential future daughters.
Yeah, they don’t show real life, but the point is to look past that and enjoy them. And like commenters above me have said ^^^ what about Belle and Mulan, they’re pretty awesome (:
All I could think of when you said ‘white horse’ was Taylor Swift’s song of the same name, about how she realises life isn’t a fairytale and not every guy is a prince charming who’s going to sweep her off her feet.
Good song, you should go listen (:
And if Disney has ANYTHING to answer for…here’s a couple of tidbits to knock you socks off…
The Lion King – when Simba collapses into the grass and blows dust and leaves across the plains and Rafiki realises he is alive…slow down the DVD when the grass is blowing across the sky and you will see the word SEX plainly slepped out in the grass and leaves and dust.
AND
The Little Mermaid – when Ursula is going to marry the Prince on the boat, take a close look at the priest who is going to marry them…he has an erection!
This is not a snark. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion. Here’s mine!
I don’t see what’s the fuss about Disney Princesses?! I grew up with them and loved them but would I sit my 4yo neice down and lecture her about prince charming, spindles, dwarves and witches? AH… No. Let the kids be kids, and be as darn a good parent as you can. That’s going to help them grow up to be a better contributor to society than preparing them for the ‘real world’. When they grow up and have issues with the world they go take woman’s studies at university!! (sorry, but it’s true!)
DOn’t panic too much. My 11 y.o daughter had Disney princess stuff (limited) and Barbie dolls when she was a wee one, and she seems to be growing up with a healthy sceptism for fairy tales. She recently did a speech on the original fairy tales and how gruesome they were compared to the Disney versions. Straight from the 11 year old: “In the original story one stepsister cuts of her toes and the other one cuts off her heel, so that the slipper will fit. And the prince doesn’t even realise, until some pigeons point out that the slipper is full of blood!
First of all – ew! And second – how stupid was the prince?! ”
What we teach them as parents is much more powerful than any movie, song or story.
This was an interesting discussion you had with Karl on this one! I’m more of a mind of letting kids know that fairy-tales are only pretend but lots of fun. Life can be lots of fun, but it’s not a fairytale. I just plan on instilling in my three girls that life is full of oppotunities and choices, some of life just comes down to luck. But the best way to enjoy life is to make as many opportunities, choices and luck for yourself.
Me again…no I didn’t spend a semester discussing fairy tales as part of a Women’s Studies at Macquarie!
Why don’t we see the good in these fairy tales instead of the bad?
Sure there is the darket undercurrent of what the original fairy tales tried to say (and for a modern dark take on the fairy tale genre, try Angela Carter’s interpretations of these fairy tales. In one Red Riding Hood ends up taking the Wolf as her lover…talk about female empowerment!)
But I digress.
If we are going to read ridiculously deeply into thesw fairy tales why don’t we see the good messages?
Belle was a humane person who didn’t judge the beast solely on looks. She learnt to love the personality before she loved the hot prince.
And Ariel from the Little Mermaid met the Prince because of her desire to change her life. She was fascinated with the human world and defied her family to follow her dreams. She was independant and self-assured.
I really never saw any of this when I was little and obsessed…and nor will any of my kids! And if they do…then damn get that child to Mensa!
Mia, I think you hit the nail on the head. I’m 25 and after a lifetime of growing up with Disney Princesses and Romantic Comedies where everyone lives happily ever after, I’m still single and waiting for Mr Right to come and sweep me off my feet. I find fault with boys I date because they are not pprince charming, even when they are pretty close to perfect. I wait for fireworks and that magical moment when you (apparently) know that person is the one for you and it doesn’t happen. I am deluded into thinking that it will all work out like in the fairytales, when in real life, its not always happily ever after!
I just thought of another point – we’re all looking at this from a grown woman’s point of view. when I was little, I HATED the “gross” love stuff. boys were yucky and kissing was the most disgusting thing known to man. for me it was all about the pretty dresses and the singing animals.
Well the Lion King was, and still is my favourite disney movie of all time so I guess I wasn’t massively influenced by the princesses. I agree with Cerry though- check out the Brothers Grim stories or watch the movie that Health Ledger and Matt Damon star in, bloody scary! Very different to Disney!!
I was obsessed with Disney fairy tales when I was a kid and will still happily sit down and watch Sleeping Beauty at 25!
I have no issues with any kid watching these fairy tales.
If you are teaching your daughter in real life that housework is for girls and you need a prince to save you, that is a much more harmful message than the songs and make-believe you see in fairy tales.
But from what I have seen here from all the commenters, everyone believes in empowerment for their children and wouldn’t be going around filling their heads with nonsense and anti-feminist material.
If she has a strong female role model in her life, surely that is going to be much stronger than anything Disney can put out?
I remember being entranced by the songs and the colours and the simplicity of fairy tales. I never remember actually taking on board their behaviour and their longing to be coupled-up!
I can’t wait for any of my children to reach the “princess” stage – I had the most amazing make-believe world as a kid and into my early teens and I would want any children of mine to be able to make-believe like that! Whether they want to be princesses or not!
Word Mia! I am 24 and have only just figured out there is no prince charming on his way and have started to be proactive in resucing myself! I guess I am lucky that it has dawned upon me now rather then later down the track! Totally agree with you!
i’m a gen-y princess who likes her disney movies.
i never liked belle, though. she spent all her time sighing and singing about how she wanted ‘adventure in the great wide somewhere’, and then when she had her adventure (encountered beast) all she could do was whinge about how she didn’t like it.
i watched a lot of disney movies and don’t seem to have suffered any negative effects. i also think there will always be those waiting for their princes, disney movies or no. some people are just like that.
so i have come to the conclusion that disney princesses aren’t necessarily harmful as long as you can get your daughter (possibly also son?) to think about the message, discuss and challenge it. i know that sounds like a crazy thing to be doing with a toddler…just an idea…
Most of todays traditional fairy stories have their roots partly in myths and legends, but for the most part they are actually supposed to teach children about dangers. For example Little Red Riding Hood is teaching about the onset of puberty (red cloak) and how she will then become a target for wolves (read: men). This is one of the more simplistic and banal. In the book “Women who run with the wolves” Clarissa Pinkola Estes (i think i spelled that right) devotes a huge portion of her book dissecting some of these stories. I read it when i was about 18 and recommend it for the understanding i gained about they construction of these tales.
Generally they were more bloody and gruesome, the original Cinderella has the ugly sisters cutting of toes and heels to fit into the shoe. And it seems to be more about keeping your head in and being subservient then life will work out. Clear message there!!
What is interesting to me is the way Disney have taken the concept and run with it with no regard for the integrity of the story, have you seen there Hunchback of NotreDame?? In the book NO ONE lives happily ever after.
The biggest problem for me is that there is a whole seemingly ever increasing princess cult, like it’s a compliment. Which for me extends all the way to but not finishing with THE WEDDING!!! Ever notice it’s always about the bride it’s HER day. Call me crazy but i thought two people were needed to get hitched?
Maybe i’m lucky i work in musical theatre and get to dress up all the time and opening night well it becomes all about the dress, so i can see where it can be seductive but i think a 20-40 yr old woman in a t-shirt that says Princess on it had better think again.
Think about it a princess has no power, has to do whatever she is told must marry who she is told to marry. Me personally i can live with out a label but if i was to have one of the royal variety i think Queen would be ever so much more powerful.
Maybe i’m wrong but i teach singing/dancing/acting to 4-6yr olds and when doing and acting exercise where i get them to talk about themselves, more than half the girls wanted to be princesses and of the few that didn’t one wanted to be a shopper. And i can’t explain it but it creeped me out, when i was 3 i was going to be a dancer (and i am). But these babies wanting this fantasy i’m ashamed to say i spent quite a bit of time finding out what they found attractive, i even tried to encourage a few to maybe be a vet or a fireperson.
I guess i am learning it’s a minefield an while i don’t have kids yet i know that i will struggle with these kinds of things.
So thanks Mia for asking these question, i hope you are still blogging when i finally get around to having those kids i may need your help!
argh I’ve had this debate so many times and I can never articulate myself properly.
The idea of ’setting up little girls for disappointment’ is ridiculous. anyone who thinks a kid is going to have a breakdown when they discover that their life won’t be exactly like Cinderella’s is insulting their intelligence.
fairy tales and generally any ‘happily ever after’ stories are important for children. They teach values about kindness and love and they give children hope – not specifically to hope that ’someday my prince will come’, but hope that if you are kind and good to people, things will turn out alright. Ok, sometimes things don’t turn out alright, but kids will find that out on their own, in their own time, and we need to let them do that.
From someone who seems so concerned about little girls growing up too fast, I’m surprised you’re so against princess stories.
There are millions of women out there who pretended to be princesses when they were kids, and I’m pretty sure the majority of us turned out just fine.
Any grown woman who sits around hoping for a prince to come and rescue her didn’t get there just by watching a cartoon.
Its all fun and escapism. All kids love fancy dress, girls love frilly fancy dress, so its either fairies or princesses.
Personally I think spoiling our kids rotten with material possessions from an early age is more responsible for the princess entitlement syndrome than watching fantasy movies. I know 8 year olds with ipods, mobile phones and laptops. Wii’s, playstations and PSPs. Birthday parties with a professional entertainer every year, annual overseas holidays and a wardrobe of designer clothes. Thats not preparing children for the realities of life. Thats setting them up for disappointment. Especially if they cant keep living like this when they have to pay their own bills.
I am not being ’snarky’ honestly, when I say have none of you looked into the developmental stages of pre-schoolers? Why must every activity they undertake be analysed from the perspective of a 30 something adult? Children have their own take on fairy tales and traditional stories and nursery rhymes. The most ridiculous thing I have seen lately was an animated version of Three Billy Goats Gruff. The troll did not die under the bridge, as he always has, he was thrown high into the air never to come down to earth again. Why?? death happens, it is a fact of life, princes may or may not happen for us in later life either, but why tell them now? This is more about adults being uncomfortable with certain concepts than ‘protecting’ little girls.
Far out, how early do you want small people to think like adults? Childhood is being eroded and picked at continuously as it is.
As Pink Floyd would say “Hey Mummy, leave us kids alone.”
I agree with you Rosie – life is hard – deal with it…but let 3 year olds be 3 years olds. It’s a bit of escapism.
Saying that my daughter is not yet 2 – I will get back to you when she hits 3. I am kind of looking forward to the “princess stage” after having a boy first.
I get very disturbed how a parent ( most often the Mother ) dies in Kids flicks – Nemo, Bambi. ( and several others that escape me) Again it’s life but do they have to learn about it so early? I fast forwarded the death scene in Nemo until my son was 4…
My daughter isn’t old enough yet, but I myself grew up watching Disney princesses and it didn’t really have any effect on me. Maybe because my favourite movies were the ones abouts animals or kids (Lady & the Tramp, Aristocats, Alice in Wonderland etc) but I never went through the princess stage. I watched Cinderella & Snow White, but just didn’t love them like other girls seem to.
However I don’t think this helpless princess complex is confined to Disney movies- it’s the subtext of many teen and adult movies as well. Sometimes it’s flipped around so the helpless prince is saved by the cool princess (eg every single Judd Apatow film) but it’s essentially the same thing, just without the castle and tiaras.
Not sure if there’s a way to combat the whole princess phase, but I don’t think entitlement comes from movies/pop culture. If the parents raise the little girl as a princess, that’s where the problem is. I’ve seen it with my friends. When we were growing up it was a huge source of frustration that my parents didn’t spoil me or let me get away with things. Now I see those girls who were spoiled and they don’t want to work for anything, they want it to be given to them because they deserve it.
Aneets- I LOVE the old school gruesome fairy tales!
Thanks for that Cerry- I hadn’t thought about Hansel & Gretel that way, will go heavy on the stranger danger aspect if I read it to the kids again in the near future.
Of course that’s if they find it any time soon- I have a habit of hiding those books I dislike reading!
Dear Mia. I remember my friend buying books and developing strategies for how to keep her daughter from becoming Barbie-and-princess obsessed. She worked on the strategy for a good year before her daughter hit three. So far, so good, her little girl (now five) isn’t too interested in anything branded, so to speak, but she still loves tutus and dressing up in pink…
I watched the Disney Princess movies as a little girl, as did all my friends (and as not so little girls, too – we may or may not have been up at midnight watching Beauty and the Beast at a friend’s 18th last year), and most of us don’t seem to have been too messed up by it. There will always be a handful of people who have very idealistic, and unrealistic, ideas of being swept away by a prince, well past the point where people think it’s cute that you want to grow up and be a princess. I have friends who have been very fortunate, and have boyfriends who do things that result in little squealy noises being made when we hear about them, but some of them have gone through a few stinkers to get to the good ones. We’re pretty well aware of the fact that that’s the way it happens for most people. But we still like the Disney movies, for giggles and escapism. I think Enchanted (which we watched when one of my friends was home for the long weekened) is actually a very good movie – Disney actually have a go at all their old Princess movies, and point out that the real world doesn’t really work like a fairy tale, even when you try your hardest.
And Aneets, the really old school fairy tales, particularly the Brother’s Grim ones, weren’t really meant to be happy bedtime stories for little kids – a lot of them were a slightly more friendly way of getting messages across to little kids (I mean, isn’t Hansel and Gretel the ultimate Stranger Danger story?). Disney soften up pretty much everything they do, and I think that in some ways, they’re better for really little kids when they’re principally nice stories. I wouldn’t let most kids under 8 touch the originals with a 10 foot pole, to be honest, but they’re still fun.
My mum just sent me down a box of my old fairy tales and golden books for me to read them to my own kids. Some of them are absolute corkers! For example the little golden book “We Help Daddy” in which daddy is smoking a pipe whilst enlisting the help of his toddlers to chop firewood and paint the fence while Mummy bakes cookies in the kitchen. And then there’s “We Help Mommy” which has the kids cleaning the house and doing the dishes. I think maybe the Disney Princess Theme and storylines are just indicitive of the era from which they were written, where women were very much the “weaker sex” and portrayed as being in need of being “rescued”. Times, of course have changed, but these books and characters are classics, so I guess if we are reading them to our girls, we just end the book with a positive message of our own for them to mull over like “wow! wasn’t Cinderella’s life so much different to our lives today”.
And speaking of books carrying weird messages, one of the books my mum sent me was called “The Skink who Wished He Was Pink” all about a skink who sat on the fence all day and wished he was bright pink, but his father said that skinks had to be brown and could never be pink. As I read this book out loud to the kids the other night, my hubby goes “Geez do ya think old Skinky’s trying to come out of the closet but dad’s a bit of a homophobe?”
not all Disney chicks are princesses. How cool is Mulan?
I agreed with your post Mia (I especially hate how a princesses primary feature is their beauty), but then I remembered how much I loved Disney princesses growing up. Did they shape my view of reality? Not really. I think I learnt early on how to separate reality from fiction. I did not marry to be “rescued” (my hubby is many wonderful things, but he’s no prince charming!), nor did I ever expect to have other people make my life happen.
I am afraid that I agree that Happily Ever After is a crock. Life is hard. Deal with it!
That said, should children be forced to see that? They grow up very quickly as it is – I’d be more worried about the message the Bratz send.
I grew up in the ’70’s – Cinderella, Barbie, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White were all staples. But as I got older, so was reality.
Escapism is fine – so long as it’s used as it was meant to be – as a temporary escape from the grind. It was never meant to be a way of life.
around 3 children become obsessed with the happily ever after and usually we [teachers] read them.
i love to change stories though and will generally swap around the characters so it isnt always the boy saves girl.
have you seen happily n’ever after? i enjoyed that quite a lot. and shrek – shrek removes the ‘handsome prince’ from the tale.
whatever you read to children, its up to us to give them the important messages
That picture is from a very cool series called Fallen Princesses. There’s more here, plus the artist discusses her inspiration…
http://www.jpgmag.com/stories/11918
Mia, I think you missed out on the Gen Y girls like me who still adore Disney to pieces and watch the films and take huge amounts of pleasure in them in our twenties.
Prince Charming… I can’t believe women still believe in it, although I still see women in their 40s thinking that he will come and save them from… whatever they need saving from. Perhaps it was my mother’s amazing parenting skills, but I’m never going to allow myself to think a man will save me. I don’t expect real, long-lasting love to look like Cinderella, where it happens instantaneously, based on pure sexual attraction and nothing more. I fully expect to marry an IT engineer who looks more like Mike Myers than Brad Pitt. And if I do – who cares? This man shouldn’t save me or dominate my life entirely. As long as he is there when I need him, then I’m happy.
However, I do recognise that there is something going on in my generation that makes me very worried as a feminist. I think it’s partly to do with Disney, but it’s also the influence of things like Bridget Jones that depict singledom and being an “old maid” as the worst thing ever. I think there’s now a mood among Gen Ys that says that you must go to any lengths to avoid being an old maid.
Mia, I think that being hard on Beauty and the Beast is a bit much, though. I always loved Belle – not because she was super pretty, because most of the Disney girls are, but because she was a bookworm and she wasn’t afraid to stand up to a man. What other Disney princess does that? Belle really is the best. I also recommend a Studio Ghibli film called “My Neighbour Totoro”. It has a bus that’s a cat. It’s a gorgeous film, and it centres around two little girls moving into the countryside with their father. Next to no romance, and such a great movie.
I draw the line at facial piercings.
Aneets – yes, they *were* really gruesome! I had a fairly unexpurgated version of Sleeping Beauty in some book when I was a kid, & it gave me nightmares.
I’ve grown up on the Disney Princess movies and am still a fan, but would describe myself as a feminist. I agree, there are a lot of kinda iffy messages conveyed through the princesses(especially the older cartoons like Cinderella and Snow White) – but I just don’t think little girls pick them up. I honestly think it’s all just good fun and a 90 minute movie can’t seriously affect your fundamental beliefs or expectations in life. I think you learn more about that from your mother and real women in your life than you do from movies – and that’s the way it should be.
I think it’s harmless escapism for the the kids myself- but then again I don’t let my daughters get too into the whole Disney thing.
Don’t get me wrong, they know all the stories but not really through me reading it to them.
Just this morning my 4 year old was telling me about how her dad & I met (my husband must have been desperate when having to tell a non book bed time story) and the way she ended it was ‘then you fell in love mama, and lived happily ever after!’
At this age they are all about fairy tales.
Has anybody else noticed how awful some of the old school fairy tales are? Hansel & Gretel in particular is just gruesome.