Advertising doesn’t just sell us products. It tells us who we are. It tells us what’s desirable. What’s NORMAL. So says Jean Kilbourne who is internationally recognised for her pioneering work on the image of women in advertising. Her award-winning Killing us Softly films look at the image of women in advertising .
I have been known to bang on a bit about body image, photoshopping and retouching. And I never intend to stop. Watch this clip from Killing us Softly 4 and then watch it again. Now send it to everyone that you know and insist that they watch it too.
[Thank you Nik Howe for sending me this]
*UPDATE: For those men who genuinely don’t understand why women like me and Jean Kilbourne bang on about this stuff and wonder why we can’t just ACCEPT that magazine images are re-touched and get over it, read this. It may help you to understand where we’re coming from.
Comments
396 Comments so far
This is hardly new or even worse now than it has been. If this is one of the worst things happening to women as Kilbourne seems to suggest then things are looking up.
And if it is a problem it’s certainly not a gender specific one.
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Dear Mia,
Did you ever think about this when you were a women’s magazine Editor?
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Agreed.
Editor’s have the power to push for paradigm shifts in the way a publication communicates about and to women. Sadly, advertisers hold just as much bargaining power. How many female advertisers do you know?? Very few. And so, the editor rolls over and the cycle begins again.
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Not sure what you mean by ‘female advertisers’ but as an ex-publisher I tried to inject real people into my mags. No-one took them. Put a photoshopped hottie on the cover and they flew off the racks.
This isn’t an issue between Editors and advertisers it’s between consumers and consumers.
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What kind of magazine did you publish?
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I agree with Stacey Ryan. Unfortunately what is produced is very consumer driven (even if we think it’s not).
I am female and work in advertising and while we don’t ever retouch the ‘size’ of the model (including ‘trimming’ them or adding cleavage) we do touchup skin blemishes, uneven skin tone and often even wrinkles. Working in the agency side I don’t have the authority to change this and even our clients (usually the brand managers) don’t either as someone higher up (and usually based overseas) have the final say (due to knowledge of the consumer). A vicious cycle!
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I know people like to shame Mia when she speaks out about this stuff and I can understand what you are thinking. BUT, you need to let that go. She is doing an awesome job and I personally feel inspired by her!!!!
I agree that the media has a lot to answer for, however, in cases like this (Mia), it is certainly positive as she is now using her position to help improve the conditions of woman.
So, just let it go ok
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Oh I don’t mind. I am totally upfront about the fact that I did some good things and some awful things when I was an editor.
I fought like crazy against the tide to try and broaden the types of images of women that were published in women’s mags.
But there were covers I re-touched. I even had my own editor’s shots re-touched sometimes!
Shameful!
But also in a way understandable and a prime example of why it’s so insidious. When all you see are images of digitally constructed perfection, your own un-altered image is going to look pretty poor in comparison. I feel into that trap too.
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I think that you have the authority to speak because you know about it. I think it is admirable that you fought against your peers and bosses. That is simply inspiring
… Imagine if we all stood up like that…Now that is a thought 
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Thank you Mia, and Nik for sending this in. Maybe if teh emphasis was on being healthy and happy rather than impossibly skinny, there would be less obesity? Just a thought.
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that’s what i want to see in schools. Proactive, rather than reactive.
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Yes it is not real but if it did not work the advertisers would not do it.
Building a healthy self esteem in our daughters starts with ourselves – not getting on the scales and sighing wistfully (in fact, just don’t get on) and not saying we hate our bums/boobs/arms or another body part. Let us take charge of our own self-esteem by not wishing for the near impossible body (airbrushed or not) advertisers insist on using and that we are “told” is desirable. We are who we are and we cannot change our genes.
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If anyone is interested and uses facebook I started a little page on there quite a while ago now entitled ‘Wise Women (& men & kids) Against Cosmetic Surgery for Vanity or Image). Its about deep self acceptance. There are also threads of Yogic Wisdom, which obviously I love because I’m a Yoga teacher. Its a positive page for people, we are not into trash bagging those who do choose cosmetic surgery….because that is their choice. I started it up because I care about this issue and I care about the fact sooooooo many women/mothers/daughters/sisters are dying from these procedures. This is just sad to me.
Happy Love Day everyone
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send us a link
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Have tried to copy & paste the link but its not working. The link is quite long, so not sure how to get it linked. All I can suggest is type in Wise Women in the search area of the FB home page, it should come up. If you know how to link let me know.
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Great clip and issue but made me wonder Mia why you had a column a few weeks back that seemed narky with someone deconstructing your magazine image? And no, I am not her. To play devil’s advocate, do you think you portray an unrealistic image for mums?
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I wasn’t narky with the deconstruction of my image. I was a little bemused but honestly not fussed by all the comments that followed it either when I posted the column here.
I do my very best to portray the only image I can of myself – an authentic one. That means not having my photos re-touched (and this is often a big battle with well-meaning people who try!) and being honest about my screw-ups and the fact I have help in the form of a nanny, supportive family and flexible working hours.
I also don’t ever claim to represent anyone but myself.
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Love yr honesty Mia. Hats off to you.
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I think Mia portrays an aspirational image for mums, not an unrealistic one. This blog and her books have always felt very authentic to me.
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I think it is a bit rough to say that Mia potrays an unrealistic image for mums. She is an attractive woman who obviously is not short of cash, but I don’t get how this is unrealistic; it is what she is.
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My just 4 year old daughter the other day was telling me how fat her stomach was!! It broke my heart, I had to reassure her she was beautiful and people come in many shapes and sizes and as long as you are healthy is all that matters.
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I think magazines are shooting themselves in the foot.
Personally, I don’t enjoy looking at magazine covers anymore. The images are so retouched, it may as well be an illustration.
It’d be nice to see what someone actually looks like for a change (with the person’s consent, that is – paparazzi shots don’t count).
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Thanks for this one Mia, reminded of the iconic Dove Retouching ad that came out a few years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn0jf46U
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It’s very simple the answer to all this nonsense.
Don’t buy magazines.
Throw away the television.
It’s hard at first but give it three months and you’ll find you have so much more time to do stuff.
I have always been so susceptible to falling for the idea that I somehow don’t measure up but since chucking the telly out three years ago my self-confidence has become stratospheric.
When you break it down, it’s all about control. And about flogging stuff to us.
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I spent six months in the middle of Guatemala, no TV, no magazines, no billboards and felt happy with the way I looked. When I flew back to the first world and its bombardment of images the little doubting voice inside me started up again – ‘Too fat, crap hair,” etc etc
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I was just thinking about this airbrushing stuff this morning before watching that clip. I was trying to think about how the airbrushed photos of models impacted on my own body image as a teenager (before I realised these images had been photoshopped). I am fortunately naturaly slim, though a little on the short side and I didn’t think I compared my body so much to the models, but then I had a lightbulb moment! When I was a teenager it was all about the armpits! The models had these perfectly smooth armpits that no matter what I did I could not replicate.
I think no matter who you are, until you are aware of the extent to which images have been photoshopped, you will probably compare some part of yourself, maybe your pores, armpits, maybe your belly button, to the images you see, because until you realise that the image in front of you isn’t real, you are left to believe that it is normal.
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Yes, great comment, armpits and pores, I never thought of that, but I do remember thinking why can’t I get my armpits as smooth as I see in images. Not as an insecure thing, but as a “what’s the secret?” thing.
And this… “(before I realised these images had been photoshopped)” this is a key phrase. We don’t sit reading magazines with our parents when we’re young, they’re not sitting with us telling us what’s authentic and what’s not.
So for those who are saying this is nothing new, did you ever think it is for a pre-teen/teen flipping through a mag or watching video clips on a Sat morning? Who’s telling them what’s real?
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I actually do now – if we do come across a magazine (say in a dr’s waiting room), I talk about how those photos aren’t real, and that they’ve been designed to sell us something.
I haven’t linked it to body image yet though (although maybe I should. My middle child (7) has been talking of her tummy). I focus on the idea that some people’s jobs are to sell us something, and often its stuff that we don’t need.
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yes!! the armpits! So many years of wondering.
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Thanks Mia. I’m saving this to show to my daughters. My 8yo has already asked if she could have her teeth whitened! It’s frightening.
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This post comes at a good time for me. Im 37 weeks pregnant and have only just started to get stretch marks on my tummy. Everyday i end up in tears as there is one more mark on my tummy
While looking through a pregnancy mag i noticed that not any of the pregnant models have stretch marks!! (Even though i read that 90% of women get them) This just makes me feel worse.
But……
Honestly if i was a model for these mags i would demand that they airbrush them out. Would you want everyone to see your imperfections? I know i wouldnt.
Its such a hard issue as we know about photoshopping, good lighting, body make up, etc, but would you really buy a anti aging cream if the model has wrinkles?
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Amy I am pregnant with my third child and my stomach looks nothing like the models in the magazines…looks more like a page from the Melways…
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Oh Amy! It’s amazing isn’t it? Even when women are doing something wonderful like carrying a baby, we can still feel body image stress. I remember feeling just like you, only not with stretch marks but veins in my legs. I have two children now and I still get miserable every day about my veins. Why do I do it to myself?!
Good luck with your baby.
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I feel quilty that im complaining about stretch marks when some women cant even have children
But i think in my emotional state everything is just harder to deal with, even if it is superficial.
Hopefully soon i will see them as battle scars and a reminder of how amazing my body is …for now its just an ugly sight that makes me depressed
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Amy, I have stretch marks and they fade over time, they are pretty hard to look at in the beginning but you will get past it. Just do exercises that will tighten up your tummy. I still have to work on that.
YOu will realise that stretchies are nothing after a while, if you keep thinking that way.
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I see my stretch marks as my trophy for carrying my babies. Wouldnt swap them for anything.
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When we were compiling our report into body image for the govt, pregnancy and new motherhood were two areas of extreme vulnerability around body image for women.
Somehow, people think you should be immune to it when you’re pregnant or feeding a baby and they can often say the most outrageous things to you….
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How interesting! Thanks Mia for mentioning this finding. I have had two babies and before I was ‘obviously pregnant’, I couldn’t wait to see what my body would look like carrying a growing baby but sadly I often felt really self-conscious as the months went on. And strangely, I felt more self-conscious during my second pregnancy. Every time I spotted a new cluster of veins on my legs or realised my boobs had grown AGAIN overnight or saw that the warm weather had given me cankles for a few days.
I experienced comments from people that seemed to be extreme opposites. For instance, ‘oh you’re not very big’ (cue me stressing that my baby wasn’t growing properly) and then ‘I think you’re having a girl because I can tell you are pregnant from behind’
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I think it’s about time we as consumers took back the power.
I’m not going to make this comment about womens rights, women being subjected to awful images in the media and womens body image – I’m making it about men and women.
We are the consumers so let’s stop consuming. Take back our power. Advertisers only have the power because we let them. We let our self esteem be troubled and undermined. Stop doing it. Don’t let yourself believe that this is the ideal.
Parents teach your children (girls and boys) that it’s ok to be just them. Give them good self esteem and you’ll be setting them in good steed for the future.
It really is in our hands. Yes?
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I think you’re right. But I also don’t think it’s as straight forward as all of that.
I’m thinking about your comment of ‘parents teach your children…’ The way this works is that you need everyone to be doing it at exactly the same time. Or you don’t socialise. Or let your children talk with grandparents who still give outlandish compliments to the little girls for looking ‘pretty’ while ignoring the beautiful little boy who tried hard to dress appropriately.
So you’re right. But where to from there?
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I just had a quick read of the comments about who wore what at the BAFTA’s.
Women giving their opinion about who looked good and who didn’t. I understand why advertisers find it easy to peddle their line.
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I noticed the same thing. A lot of people can talk the talk, but many won’t walk the walk when it comes to promoting positive body image for all.
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and that is why so many people do not believe that Mia actually cares about body image, how can you have a post like this one, side by side with a post that encourages people to pick apart the stars every wrinkle, discuss how horrid or not their outfits are and talk about what plastic surgery they have all had. Not to mention the totally obvious airbrushed photo on the cover of her latest book. and yes before you all start, I saw where Mia tried to tell us it is not airbrushed but EVERY professional photograph is airbrushed, they don’t leave the studio without being touched up, just the amount that is done to them varies.
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I think though Bradley there’s a difference. What we’re seeing on the red carpet are real images of real people – admittedly after 100 hours of hair, make-up, styling etc.
What is more alarming is when we’re presented with lies – in the form of digitally altered images that purport to be real.
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Mia that makes you having a post where people pick apart what people are wearing on the red carpet even more disturbing and wrong, you have just said that the difference is that they are not airbrushed etc, so that means people are picking on the stars “real” faces and bodies. No wonder they are all so insecure, if someone like you who says she supports positive body image thinks it is ok to have
posts like frock watch etc what are the nasty people saying and encouraging??
When we all stop looking at each other to find the flaws and we all stop automatically looking for what is wrong with what others are wearing and what they have done to their faces etc and we stop judging, that’s when we don’t need to worry about advertisers selling us an “ideal” look, because none of us will care.
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But, at the end of the day, by publishing the pictures of the stars on the red carpet you are encouraging comments about their appearance.
We all know that they’ve been pumped and preened and covered in makeup from head to toe. Not a “natural” female face anywhere to be found at these big events.
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As a slightly overweight, slightly balding male with less than perfect teeth….I’m so glad that there’s nothing happening in the media to alert me to the fact that I’m far from being a portrait in oils.
Boycott the designer labels. Let the designers and the manufacturers know that you are a complete person without the item that they say that you must have.
Only you can do it. When do you want to start ?
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I’ll probably cop heaps for saying this, but, don’t buy magazines or products that promote this type of image. If necessary, write to the company whose advertisements you find offensive. Let them know that you won’t purchase Brand X because you disagree with the way that they promote their product.
Eventually as sales drop the company will have a quiet word with the advertiser. Word has it that there are more females than males on planet Earth. To me that represents a hell of a lot of clout.
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Couldn’t agree with you more on this one.
Which surprises me!
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IT happens !
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AGREE. Vote with your wallets. It’s the only vote that counts.
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I’ve been doing that for years – doesn’t seem to make a difference.
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Have you considered getting your girlfriends together and getting their names on a petition to the companies who advertising you disaprove of ?
Twenty signatures on a page carries for more weight than one.
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why do they only talk about women/girls? there are things like that that also do damage to boys/men self image?
it’s definitely a BIG issue in our society nowadays and i think we should be totally aware of it and teach our children (over and over again)to love themselves inside out, so they grow up knowing what is real and what is not
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You’re quite right. I was shocked to hear a 6 year old saying “I’m too fat”. And then there’s being ashamed of their lack of muscles or lack of other supposedly important dimensions. Impossible images are everywhere.
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i am a mother of two boys and i always hear about how badly it is for girls to have this or that exposed to them, fair enough, but NOBODY EVER mention that boys could have been exposed to “dangerous ads”or how they could affect their self esteem…would love to hear from others about their opinions…maybe there is a new post there mia…
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I asked in another post but got no response…I’m really curious as to whether the cover photo of Mia Culpa has been photoshopped. Can someone please enlighten me?!
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An interesting question, indeed.
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I saw that comment and noticed didn’t get a reply. I’m very interested to know if it was retouched as well!
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Which other post? Sorry. Must have missed it. Short answer: no. Absolutely not. Am going to write more in another post but as soon as a copy landed on my desk I picked up the phone to my publisher who immediately looked into it and reassured me that it wasn’t. Just a loss of quality in the printing process. Imagine if I’d had it retouched……!
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Wow, good on you Mia – because I sure as heck would be having mine retouched!
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It was the post where you first revealed the book cover. I only ask because generally I am terrible about picking out untouched images but when I saw your pic it seemed too smooth for want of a better word. Loss of quality in printing definately explains it as I didn’t think you’d been shrunk or anything, just glossed over! Appreciate your response
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And I appreciate the question. It’s only right that I be held accountable to something like that.
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“loss of quality in printing”? Really?
Sounds a bit like Nicole Kidman’s “it’s the sunscreen” line.
Amazing how loss of quality produces such an amazingly flattering photo!
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Actually i believe Mia. She’s only 40, good makeup and lighting can do wonders, and if it’s from further away, then it will look even better.
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Ahem, Mia is in the <40 box!
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okay, so it’s makeup and trick lighting. Is that any less dishonest than digitally altering an image?
Isn’t it the point that we are being presented with an unrealistic image? Is it really ok to say “I’m against photoshopping but I’m okay with using a shitload of makeup and flattering lighting to make me look ten years younger and five times more attractive than I really am” so I can feel better about myself and my publisher can sell more books?
Just a thought.
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Ok. Now we are taking this argument too far. I definately see your point, however you cannot compare self grooming to digitally altered photo’s.
One thing I will be encouraging my nieces and maybe daughter oneday ( I have a son) is to embrace their femininity. I think that when we take pride in our looks, we actually feel good. It is not just for vanity reasons. I wish I embraced my own beauty when I was younger.
I will teach them that they do not need to look the best in the group, but it is good to look their best.
Think about it, as if you will not wear make up for the cover of your book? I think it is insane to not look good for the cover of your book.
I know I would FOR SURE.
The difference between self grooming and photoshoped images is that we are not in an even ground playing field. If we want to do the hair and make up, eat little and exercise- we can probably even hold our own compared to the stars. But, when we are presented with images that are not real and this is what many woman compare themselves to, then that is a completely different story.
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when thinking about it, if someone said which would you prefer;
a) picture of me with blemishes on skin, slightly crooked teeth and fatroll over the jeans or;
b)picture of me with flawless skin, perfect teeth and a fat free body
I would choose option b and can see why celebrities do the same.
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actually this buys into this whole concept of idealised physical perfection as dictated by the media. It is because you (and me and everyone) have been socialised to beleive that a) is unacceptable/embarrassing/ugly and that b) is acceptable/desirable/beautiful….
This is precisely the point of the video..
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I may sound superficial but i delete any photos that are ugly and make me look blah. Why would i want a permanent reminder of my bad skin, flabby arms, double chins, etc. This is not about whats socially acceptable, but personal preference.
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but personal preference is influenced by what you’ve been brought up to believe is not beautiful. Think about it. When you look in the mirror and think “this isn’t right”, where did the image of the ‘right’ body come from? Media usually.
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what about sending it to every man you know too!
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yes!!!
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The worst thing is that Kate Winslet looked absolutely gorgeous in the original image anyway.
Why oh why was there a need to shrink her body?
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The Winslet debate is a classic example of hot-air about nothing – the “body-image” equivalent of the beat-up of Abbott’s “shit happens”. Look at the 2 images. Can you see any difference? Really????
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I can. I wish she’d dye her roots but it bugs me.
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Lynden. Comment rules apply to all of us. Please maintain respect and argue the point not the person. Thank you
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hell yes. she’s considerably slimemr in certain places – how can you not see that?!
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Perhaps you see it because you are looking for it. There may be a small differenxe but it’s far from obvious.
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Of course we’re looking for it, because Kate Winslet brought to our attention that the image was manipulated. Duh!
If you click on the image so it’s larger, the difference is more obvious (imagine it being much higher quality on the front of a glossy magazine).
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Viewed with a magnifying glass, perhaps. But then you see it because you’re looking for it. The differences are far from obvious. As I said – a beat-up.
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Regardless of your opinion or mine, Kate didn’t like. So that is the issue. We should be extremely grateful that she is taking this stance.
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I think the retouching is very noticeable in the legs (particularly the bent leg). The untouched legs look like that of a standard size 10-12, while those that have been retouched look more like legs of a standard size 6-8. I also think the untouched shot of Kate is the slimmest she’s ever looked, so for the photo to then be retouched is shocking!
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I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that I don’t think the shot on the right is the original from which the other shot was altered.
Kate Winslet is a beatiful woman. She doesn’t look – nor has she ever looked – like either of those images.
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i agree Mia, i’m a graphic designer and tho i don’t work for magazines, i do a LOT of photoshop work. the differences here are too minimal to really bother with, mostly a shift in colour that re-contours her legs.
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lol out on a limb. pun.
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Ahhh the work of advertising, marketing and branding. I would love to see how an advertiser would sell a burqa!!
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I am glad I don’t waste my money on buying magazines, etc. I have 2 daughters and they are only young but, when the time comes I want them be comfortable with who they are, it will be a struggle but I hope they come out the other end comfortable with who they are.
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That model that died of anorexia was like a slap in the face. To see her ribcage and her tiny body and to know she did this to herself thinking it was beauty is horrifying. And the fact that the modelling industry encourages this behaviour is cruel and inhumane.
We don’t accept inhuame treatment of animals, yet we treat one another like dirt.
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The sad thing is that poor girl was still working. Who on earth would employ a model who was so obviously very ill / dying? By giving her work it was reassuring her that her size was ok. They should be ashamed of themselves.
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And wasn’t she the sister of another model who had died of anorexia only a year prior? If so how devestating for their parents, and dare I say irresponsible for allowing that to happen twice??
If it is not the same girl then there are another 2 to add to the death toll. Sad, very sad.
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were expected to be thin when we are surronded by fast food temptations in a world were children on the other side of the world are starving, we live to have bags and clothes worth hundreds even thousands of dollars were that money could house a family or buy medicine for people in need , Just stop and think how selfish we are to be so concerned with looks when were going to age anyway instead of enjoying the health we have. I wish i could get back all the money and time i spent on those stupid mags and give it to someone who really needs it.
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Full of dubious assumptions mixed in with statements of the bleeding obvious, eg. these images are not real. You don’t say? Is there a single human on the planet that believes they ARE real? Or realistic? Their lack of realism is the ENTIRE POINT. They project a fantasy. And consumers know that.
I gave up at the point where she made the bizarre leap into advertising leading to violence against women. Or whatever…
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We know that, but a young, overweight girl with a magazine in her hands may not see it as clearly. The fantasy is what young girls want. They think “Wow, I want my body to look like that” and the fantasy element is lost.
Violence is in terms of the sexual. Women in provocative, dominated poses. The images give a sense of women as objects, to be used and abused. The woman as a bottle of beer is a good one. Use me and toss me aside. Thats what I got out of it, anyway..
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I’m 33 and I still look at the magazines and say “ooh I want my body to look like that” I’m supposed to be mature enough to realise how un realistic that is so yes i can definately imagine what the young tweens of today are thinking. I have a 6 year old daughter who already thinks her nose is too big, whats next???
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We all know that it is NOT real, but it doesn’t stop people out there wanting to try and obtain perfection. It is ridiculous that women fall for all this bullshit as often as they do.
They aren’t projecting the fantasy of being THIN though, are they? and it doesn’t stop women feeling bad about how they look. I have watched some of these Top model shows and they make me sick. There is no dignity in being a Model, I don’t care what anyone says.
I enjoyed what she had to say and I am thankful that there are women like Kate Winslet and Jamie lee Curtis who are happy to reveal their true selves. And thank goodness for women like P!nk who want women to be different and not conform to SOME peoples ideals of perfection.
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Yes, there are women who believe these images are real. I would have thought the same as you did, but for an instance at work, where an image was shown to me by a 26 yr old co-worker. I said, You do know that’s been photoshopped to heck, right? And she replied, Noooo? She took things in magazines at face value and she said, most of her friends did the same. I showed her the photo of Madonna without the photoshopping and asked her to question all images in magazines, they are likely to be altered in some form.
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One of my friends is a very intelligent international student from Malaysia. Very interested in clothes and makeup etc but from a sheltered background. SHE didn’t know that airbrushing even existed and soon enough was on all sorts of soup diets trying to look like Mariah Carey on the cover of Cosmo.
Just because you and I are smart enough to know it, doesn’t mean everyone does. That’s why its so goddamn dangerous.
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So you’re saying some women are shockingly ignorant/ stupid (delete as applicable). But don’t you think they should take some responsibility for the way they react to glossy images? Where does individual responsibility come in all this? This whole post seems to imply that women are passive objects just waiting to be programmed by the advertising / fashion/ comestics industry. I’d call that a sexist assumption.
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If that is what you are seeing from a young age, an impressionable time, how are we supposed to know any different unless someone points out the “bleeding obvious”???
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Obvious troll is obvious
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What does that mean? Sorry, genuine question? Troll??
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Someone that comments purely to cause trouble…
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I think we have ourselves a mansplainer in our midst.
http://scienceblogs.com/thusspakezuska/2010/01/you_may_be_a_mansplainer_if.php
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What is the female equivalent of a “mansplainer”? A womansplainer, perhaps…
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I just read the link, that was just so funny. And so representative of my gropable husband!! Oh he is so flawed and he just wont believe me because he’s a man & that means he’s right…….bhahahahahahahah.
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My boyfriend in all honestly thinks that many celebrities naturally look like the retouched versions. Doesn’t realise how much retouching goes on. I we saw that shot of Jessica Alba (his favourite) and he didn’t believe me when I said that it would have been extremely retouched (this was not long after she’d given birth). Definitely sending him this clip now!
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Lynden – go back to where you belong, which is usually bitching about the state of Australian film.
http://eyeswiredopen.blogspot.com/
http://twitter.com/lyndenbarber
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Thanks for the links
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Just telling everyone where to avoid.
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Lynden, I have worked with images like these for 20 years. And sometimes I don’t know what’s real and what’s not! If I can’t pick it, what hope does my 5 year old daughter have?
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Fair point Mia – but this clip focuses on obviously stylised, very airbushed imagery. I’m not defending this imagery – i think it’s horrible! But I think there’s a few too many unexamined assumptions in the clip – especially when she gets to violence. Had she looked at stats for violence against women 100 years ago – rape, domestic bashings, sexual assault etc – and compared with today, she might have a case. But she didn’t.
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You can’t cover every aspect of evidence for an argument in a 5 minute presentation….
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“The advertising industry Cause Violence Agaisnt Woken!!!”"(I’m paraphrasing)
Actually, she DOES need to give evidence for that.
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Maybe you should have a look at the gross advertising images of underage looking girls in their undies – or half in them – on some of Mia’s other posts. You genuinely believe that presenting girls and women in this way – posing and displaying them for hetero men in mainstream publications – isn’t affecting how men view women’s availability and expected behaviour?
I know that when we turn down a male’s advances, most women expect some kind of negative behavioural response, whether it be a comment or whatever. For those men who just can’t take it, and who view women as objects for male delectation, that response can often be a whole lot worse than a comment. Too many of us speak from experience on that one.
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I am an intelligent, post tertiary educated woman and I still need reminding that these things aren’t real.
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Hang on – you are tertiary educated etc and you looked at the images in this clip and others in its style and you would usually need to have it explained to you they were airbrushed ie. not real? Pardon me for being so bold, but I think you are being disingenuous. I accept this might be an issue for young girls or boys but for most women? Surely not.
My major beef is that the selection in the clip highlights the obviousness of so much airbrushing. Now had she taken examples where blemishes were removed, but it was very hard for readers to see this, then she might have been more persuasive. As it stands, I think not. This is not to say that the advertising/ fashion industry’s ideals are anything to drink to. Far from it.
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I think this is mansplainin again!! When a man has acknowledged your qualifications and then tells you what you are saying about your life cannot be true……bhahahahahhaha.
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There you go – womansplainin’ again….
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huh? we’ve grown up with women with smooth armpits, flawless skin, no lumps or bumps. This was our ‘normal’ woman, so NO, it was not obvious. I was about 17 before I found out about airbrushing, and then it was a few years later when I watched the Dove clip that I realised just HOW MUCH of models is actually airbrushed. And I still need reminding too. I know they are airbrushed, but when I’m just walking past an image, or seeing it in a magazine, I think “oh wow…if only i was that pretty” WAIT…hand on, even THEY aren’t that pretty. It’s a subconscious thing, and that’t why it’s so dangerous. We’ve been brainwashed for years, and finally learning about airbrushing doesn’t just wipe those years of brainwashing.
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it is horrifying to think about the world we are bringing our girls up in.
i think there should be modesty shields on all women’s mags not just one’s where elton john is posing with his baby. in fact keep the shield off that and put it on the ones where they have painfully skinny women, or women with an ounce of previously unseen body fat, or whatever other crap they publish EVERY day.
i refuse to buy those mags, in fact i pretty much only buy lifestyle mags.
whatever we are doing it is not enough.
mia, what can we do? we need to make massive changes, but we need to start somewhere.
monday morning rant over
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I don’t buy mags, but I was at a friend’s place and her mother stocks up somewhat.
I was looking at Who – there was an issue from mid-Jan about celebrities “wasting away”. Some of the mentioned celebrities have always been small, others not so small.
The next issue had “Stars bodies” and how you could get them, along with plenty of dieting tips.
Mixed messages, much? DON’T BE SKINNY! No, wait, BE SKINNY! No, wait…not THAT skinny! But not THAT fat, either! Ah shit, readers are getting unhappy, let’s do a “body love” issue where we say love the skin you’re in and pretend to recognise the fact that women come in different shapes and sizes.
Then the cycle starts again, where skinny celebrities are vilified (healthy or not), bigger celebrities vilified (healthy or not). Then they do the body love special. Repeat.
How could anyone take that seriously? Even they don’t know what they think, so I’m sure as Hell not going to let them tell me what to think about myself.
Most of the stories are a load of drivel anyway. The world would be a better place if they stopped publishing them, full stop.
Even Better Homes and Gardens had a story about eating more and weighing less…what that has to do with my home or garden escapes me.
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When I watch these kinds of things and become more aware of the world I am raising my daughters in, I seriously wonder if they are going to make it through the impressionable years unscathed. I just pray my voice is louder than any other of the messages they are going to receive regarding body image.
Mia, I applaud your efforts as someone who has a voice on this and is actually speaking. God bless you. Thank you for working on creating a better world for our daughters to grow up in.
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Yes, I agree. At the moment, my daughters are 4 and 5.5. I tell them they are beautiful and they take it at face value, without question. I sometimes say…”Are you beautiful…Does Mummy and Daddy love you?” and the standard response is a world wearied, “Yes Mummy” when I say…”How do you know?”, they roll their eyes and say “Because you tell me ALL the time.”
Long may this last…
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why do you place so much emphasis on their appearance? i’d be asking ‘ are you smart’, ‘ are you kind’ a lot more than i would focus on their appearance….
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Yes, we do that too….but given that beauty ideals are the “topic of the day”, that’s what I was commenting on in particular. You would receive the same response if you questioned them with clever, funny, kind, helpful etc…
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Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, from someone whose parents don’t get it. They are the ones who are sucked in by the messages being sent by fad diet practitioners, magazines, and so on. Imagine being ten, slightly chubby and placed on the Pritikin diet? Spending your teen years as a solidly built, active girl, but not being the same as your short, slightly built mother, so there is something WRONG with you? As an adult – 62 kilos but a size 16? NO NO NO, you are too fat! Fast forward 20 yrs to now, where I had to stop an un-asked for subscription to a diet magazine, sent by my parents. No apology when I rang them to ask why, why don’t they get it? Its god-awful.
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yep, teeny tiny Mum … sent bathroom scales for my birthday present.
after i finally lost baby fat after no. 1 child, my lovely SIL prompted Mum to mention how well i had done (and can i say i had been unhealthily overweight with family history of diabetes?). before i could feel TOO happy, Mum mentioned i might like to do some situps *sigh*
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Oh my goodness. appreciating my mum a bit more. That is NOT nice at all.
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My niece (now 7) said at just 6 years old that she wanted to wear tight jeans so that her bum would wiggle better. 6 years old!! The influence of these images is ingrained in us from such an early age that we stop questioning media and their tactics and instead we only question ourselves and our supposed lack of beauty. It’s heartbreaking really.
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At that young age,no child should come out with that sort of stuff.If they do,the parents probably let them watch completely inappropriate things on Tv,like Music Channels,or even ‘harmless’ Aussie soaps.
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It’s easy to assume that, but please be careful of judging others. At 6, children are at school and starting to be exposed to influences that parents have no control over. This week I had a meeting with our school principal to talk over some of these issues (as a response to something my daughter has been saying). I’m confident that it doesn’t come from within the family. I don’t buy magazines, and they watch ABCkids. But the world is bigger than that, and my beautiful 7yr old daughter is hitting right up against it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85HT4Om6JT4\
anyone seen this one from That Mitchell and Webb Look? Basically about the differences between advertising to women vs advertising to men. Depresing and yet funny.
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Love it.
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Dont get me wrong Mia, I completely agree with you that there is a seriously warped body image message out there, but I did find some things this lady said a tad extreme. EG -When she was talking about only photographing a body part and saying it was the worst way to ‘de-humanise’ and that the body parts were hacked together etc. I dont want to start a huge argument but not all of the shown images were that offensive.
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I don’t think it’s about how offensive the images are, i think it’s more that we are bombarded with images of parts of females bodies all the time, which sends the message that females = their parts. Or their sexuality. It separates the humanity of the person being photographed from their parts, dehumanizing them and turning woman into objects.
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Maybe its not really offensive, but a normalising that isn’t necessary. Over my life time, well since high school, lets make that 20 years, swearing has gone from something that completely shocked (I was an eastern Melbourne suburbs girl) to so completely normal that you barely hear it. Hear or see something often enough and you don’t realise that it is offensive any more.
We don’t see men’s bodies turned into beer bottles?
I know we do see over “six-packed” torsos of blokes, but not nearly as often as only a girls butt.
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I don’t think she’s being extreme. In my experience I have been acutely aware of the picking apart of womens bodies – I have found it offensive since I was a teen & I’ve always been self conscious about my boobs & bum- my father & brother would always objectify women & their tits or arse everytime I was out with them. Decades of objectification & influence through the media make this behaviour the norm. I even get annoyed at my husband because he constantly only wants to grope my boobs, VJ & arse, and sometimes I tell him fuck off I’m more than just those parts. Anyway that’s my rant……. I may be pre-menstrual!
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“I even get annoyed at my husband because he constantly only wants to grope my boobs, VJ & arse, and sometimes I tell him fuck off I’m more than just those parts.”
Wait till he DOESN’T want to grope your breasts, arse, etc. Then you’ll be REALLY happy.
(MEN CAN’T WIN/ SOME WOMEN DONT KNOW WHAT THEY WANT )
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still a troll.
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Commenting in such an insensitive and misogynistic way on a predominately female visited website is not the best way to drum up fans for your film review work.
I would hesitate to read you again after your efforts today.
I’m sure you’ll think I’m petty but quite frankly I don’t give a fuck.
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Also I think you should look up the word misogynistic before you throw it around so irresponsibly. There are a few misogynists in this world, sadly, and they are utterly vile individuals. “Misogyny” as an all-purpose insult for a male point of view in a PC-style feminist argument is so overdone that it has devalued what was a very useful term. Regrettably there are also misandrists. (Funny, but you don’t see that word used very much).
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I think it’s clear that women know that misogynistic means women-hating, but thanks for the patronising suggestion that we should look it up. Frankly, I’d say misogyny is evident wherever someone responds to an individual’s comment by branding it as coming from a particular gender – which is pretty much what you seem to be doing when you respond to the comments here. For example “men can’t win/women don’t seem to know what they want” above.
Many women get tired of being treated as a “woman” before they are treated as a “person”, and it’s particularly irritating when a place is found that you can usually speak as an individual, and then someone comes along who insists on treating you as a social category. That would be you and your approach to commenting on MM, and, yes, it’s misogynistic, just as responding in this way to a person from a particular ethnicity would be racist.
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From my recent opinion piece on the Oscars:
“The most galling treatment the Academy gives talented women it reserves not for unlucky individuals but the entire gender…”
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/43264.html
That’s right. Yet another example of Barberian misogyny
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You’re assuming those are the only parts that matter to women & that ultimately we only value ourselves for our sexuality. Boring quite frankly, completely uninsightful and unevolved and perhaps if you don’t pick apart what I have written (like you & millions of other men do to women’s bodies day in and out) you will understand the deeper meaning of my opinion today and have a more wholistic view of the situation.
I would float the possibility of attempting to put yourself in a woman’s shoes.
I’m suprised by your last paragraph. Are you serious. Do we also like it rough and sometimes no means yes? (oh wait I already know your answer to that). The men who don’t win are the ones that don’t care about women as HUMAN BEINGS and those types are generally too self absorbed about their own important life to notice what is happening in their relationship.
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I think it depends on how the woman is portrayed. If it is a shoe ad and you only see her feet, i have no problem. But if its an ad about dishwashing liquid and the item is placed between her cleavage then i would be offended.
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and if I was a husband who found my wife’s bottom attractive and sexy, I would have a problem with that ‘cos I’m angry at being “objectified”?
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Watch any news story about the ‘tsunami of obesity’ and you’ll see a parade of headless death fatties. Its dehumanising, allows people to separate the idea that this is a person with a story/life/hopes/dreams/etc, and instead, they go “eeeew” because they don’t know the headless fattie, and never will.
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I have a morbid dread of being an anonymous arse shown during a news clip about obesity! And I don’t think I am obese!
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Just posted that clip on facebook asking everyone, men and women to watch.
Even though my daughter is only 6 months old, I fear for her when she is older and the pressure placed on girls in society to be perfect.
I think I will be censoring everything as she grows up. She and all of us, no matter what size, shape are perfect as we are!
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my strongly-built 7yo daughter just told me, It’s ok mummy, i know i’m fat …
and (here i run the risk of becoming known as that woman who bangs on about competitive parenting all the time, but) i have also overheard parents boasting about how skinny their kids are.
i have no idea where i’m going with this, just to say this is NOT a side issue, and ‘choosing’ to be affected by these images is NO choice. it is real, it IS affecting our children, and it is PETRIFYING!
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I look at myself in the mirror and say, my eyebrows are too wild, my crowsfeet shouldn’t be there yet – Demi Moore doesn’t have them and she’s 10 years older than me. My face is too round, my thighs are too big and so it goes on….
But when I’m out and about, I’m constantly told I only look 30, that I have fabulous skin, that I do nothing to enhance, I’m not a moisturiser or SPFer.
Bloody photoshop and advertisers that make us doubt ourselves.
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I’d get onto the SPF if I were you. Protecting your skin from the sun is not just about preventing your skin from ageing. It’s about helping to prevent bloody cancer.
Not something to be proud of I wouldn’t think.
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And what I find even worse than the advertising, and the photoshopping – are the articles with celebs snapped looking ‘frumpy’ and ‘horrible’ and ‘overweight’ – and they’re just paparazzi shots of them looking normal – how they look in everyday life – without the retouching, and the makeup, and the stylists. So not only is the perfect image glorified – the normality of occasionally messy hair, of spotty skin, of pores, and wrinkles and smile lines are continually denigrated by gossip magazines and the like.
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Jean Kilbourne is 68 years old…but thats obvious from the grey hair & the wrinkles…NOT! I understand & support her message but how much more of an impact would it have, coming from a women who hasn’t, herself, taken steps to make herself “look better”. Kinda sad really
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I disagree with this.
I don’t think that it is buying into the message of sexism or being anti-feminist to take care of your appearance, or even ‘get some work done’. It is all about WHY you are doing it. If looking like that makes her feel good about herself, then she should do it. When I am 68 I still want to look nice. For myself, not for everybody else.
Unfortunately we live in a world where old=irrelevant, so I can see why she would feel that career-wise she needs to look polished, otherwise in the current climate less people will listen to her. ESPECIALLY when she is talking about feminist issues, if she didn’t take care of herself and looked unkempt then maybe people would write her off as being less credible than she is.
That is the world we live in at the moment.
Even if she does keep up her appearance to maintain her professional credibility, I think her message here is important and worth her conforming to what society thinks she should look like if it means that she will have more credibility and a bigger audience.
Nothing about this woman strikes me as sad.
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“I think her message here is important and worth her conforming to what society thinks she should look like if it means that she will have more credibility and a bigger audience”
OMG that just DOESN’T make sense! It’s ok for her to go against the point she is trying to make, as long as she looks appealing enough to make the point?? BTW would she look unkempt & like someone who didn’t take care of herself, if she let herself age gracefully??
Don’t get me wrong, as a mother of 2 daughters, I am 100% behind what this women is trying to say but as i said before, it would have a bigger impact coming from someone who practiced what she preached.
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“It’s ok for her to go against the point she is trying to make, as long as she looks appealing enough to make the point?? BTW would she look unkempt & like someone who didn’t take care of herself, if she let herself age gracefully??”
Exactly.
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Okay in retrospect what I wrote doesn’t really articulate my intended point well. What I mean is that the reality of the world at the moment is that if a woman, ESPECIALLY an older woman, does not look polished and like she makes an effort to take care of herself, then she is not listened to by mainstream society. If the reason that she looks really well groomed and has MAYBE had surgery is because of this sad fact, then that is really just validating what she’s saying isn’t it. The world – men and women- often puts more value on a woman’s looks than any of her other qualities.
Just because she is educated on this subject doesn’t make her immune to it. If she HAS put a lot of work into her appearance because she wants to stay relevant (which sadly means attractive and well groomed) in order to continue spreading her message, then so be it. She’s just playing by the current rules of the world. OR maybe she just likes to look her best and dresses/looks like that for no other reason that she wants to.
I think it doesn’t make sense that you think her message is great, but then judge her to be ‘sad’ because of what she looks like. You think her words would have more value if she has wrinkles and grey hair? That’s exactly the same kind of judgment as saying her words have less value because she has maybe had plastic surgery and looks well groomed and young for her age.
Really, her appearance has no bearing on what she’s saying. It’s just SOOOO very ingrained in us to use looks as a gauge to judge people that we do it without even thinking about it.
Also, the term ‘aging gracefully’ to me is kind of judgmental of women in general. Is it not aging gracefully to want to look your best? I realize there is a fine line between subtle plastic surgery and crazy facelifts, but surely ‘aging gracefully’ is getting older in your own style, whatever that may be?
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I disagree. I think she makes some excellent points. Yes, she is an attractive woman and looks fantastic for her age but I don’t think we can hold that against her. If, for example, it was Heidi Montag I could more understand your argument. I feel that your argument is like saying, “only old hags or really unattractive people can support the notion not to photoshop”.
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I never said she didn’t make excellent points, she does!! And i never said i didn’t agree with what she was saying, she’s spot on! And good for you for believing that she just “looks good for her age”. I sure as heck don’t! And as for “feeling” what my arguement was LIKE saying, it was ACTUALLY saying, how much more of an impact would it have, coming from a woman who hasn’t, herself, taken steps to make herself “look better”.
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Ok, superficiallt, I can understand this comment but I think you are very much missing the point. She looks like a very well-groomed 68 year old woman, do we even know what that is anymore?!! My mother looks like this (she wears make-up, and has a few more wrinkles ‘cos she lives in Australia, but she is doing pretty darn well, without surgery, without exercising herself into hard-bodied freak, without despair!). It’s not about not wanting to be beautiful or attractive, this is a very ancient human impulse, and a very culturally specific one (my beauty is not yours nor someone else’s, the monotony of Hollywood etc makes us forget this – this is part of its destructive power), it’s about being realistic about what this might be. And being more realistic so our children can grow up knowing that they can dye their hair if they want to, or wear make-up if they want to (I don’t do either but again, it’s about choice, real choice), but they should never expect to look like a GQ model because they actually, truly can’t. Not even GQ models look like GQ models — love the Cindy Crawford quote!! Beauty will always be admired but the media is manipulating us into believing a fantasy of perfection is actually attainable and this is the very, very damaging thing that Kilbourne wants us to recognise.
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Is her message not important just because she does her nails????
The impact of her message is enough. Seems like you are attacking the messenger here……..
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Yes, that’s right Caroline, that is exactly what i was trying to say, her message isn’t important because she does her nails….are you serious? SHEESH!
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Actually Ibis, I don’t think Caroline is far off the mark with her comment. Obviously Caroline mentioning a manicure is a tongue-in-cheek comment (am I right Caroline?) You said yourself above that you consider Jean to be a woman who ‘has taken steps to make herself look better’. And (albiet a small step) having a good manicure is a step to making one’s self look better for many people.
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I actually think (unfortunately) that her message wouldn’t be as well received if she didn’t ‘look good’. It’s sad but I think that if she was really unattractive or even just looked like she didn’t care, people would dismiss her views more readily… partly as she would be less relatable.
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I understand where you are coming from but there is alot of contridiction. So unlike her, “unfortunately” to not dye your hair or (in my opinion) have surgery, that would make her “really unattractive” or “look like she didn’t care” & no one would take her seriously?? So she would be less relatable if she looked NORMAL??
OMG i’m so confused now!
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The irony of this is killing me.
The fact that her appearance is even being commented on just strengthens the message she is attempting to get across.
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EXACTLY!!!!
A man speaking in this situation people?
Anyone got a comment now? huh? Appearance comments? Anyone? Come on?!
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Gaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh it’s awful hey? Makes you wonder what can be done!
I was reading a magazine lately and I had the good fortune to stumble upon two close-up photos of a famous actress in two very different scenarios. The first image was used in a mascara ad and the actress had perfect skin, huge eyes and the longest lashes in the universe. The second image was part of a regular old article and the actress looked very, very different (amazingly her lashes looked just like mine
).
I showed the mag to my daughter and asked her: “Why do you think these pictures look so different?” Smart little cookie knew it too … someone wants us to spend money.
I fear it’s going to be a long battle.
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The part about how women are made into objects, and that is the first part of the process of making them inhuman and therefore making violence ok, really rang true with me.
There are so many insideous ways that women are devalued in society, it’s hard to even get a clear perspective on it.
This video really spells out how advertising contributes to sexism and violence against woman.. it kind of blew my mind a little bit with how true it is.
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I thought this clip was staggering.
I know that advertising is not about me and I know that the ads are airbrushed and photoshopped and retouched but sometimes I forget that and I look at these perfect people and think that somewhere such people do exist.
I think I might just put this clip on constant replay next to my mirror at home
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No you don’t. Because if you do, then you’re an idiot. And I assume you’re not.
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Hello Lynden,
Personally I have a problem with your comments on this topic. You are not a woman and you have no idea what it is like to be a woman, so kindly refrain from telling us what to think.
Thanks.
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Check out his twitter feed – its full of baby boomer male scorn towards women. (When they say its political correctness gone mad, its because the world has moved on and they haven’t adjusted their sexist views.)
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You’re treading on dangerous ground. Name one of my “sexist” views. Precisely. With links. Perhaps my attack on the Oscars’ bias against women at the ABC The Drum? Or you have something else in mind?
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So comments from an unapologetic male perspective are unwelcome? Well perhaps Mamamia should be set up as a female-only website with membership then. Until then….
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I didn’t say refrain from commenting, just from telling us we’re idiots if we think something.
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I said that I assumed the commenter was NOT an idiot. But I can see this might be taken the wrong way and withdraw it with apology for any offence that might have been taken. That was not the intention.
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No I understand that you were saying “if” the person thought this then they are an idiot. I didn’t take it the wrong way. The fact is Lana was expressing a thought common to a lot of us that sometimes we lose our heads and think that there must be women out there like this – perfect. It might make us idiots for that moment. I’m sure you don’t ever think anything irrational though, so you wouldn’t get it.
I was also objecting to your various comments on this topic, not just that one.
I just don’t think you understand the seriousness of this issue, not only, but especially for women, and your flippancy is quite rude. Open your mind. You can’t see it from your perspective. If you grew up as a girl you might have better insight, that is the reason for my original reply.
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wow lynden, that is angry. And I am confused….what do you meant I don’t?
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“I look at these perfect people and think that somewhere such people do exist.”
Really?
“I am confused”
Sure are
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what is that supposed to mean? Your comment makes no sense.
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Lynden, I refer you to the Comment Rules, which are clearly outlined at the top of the page.
Comment Rules: Imagine this is a dinner party. Differences of opinion are welcome but keep it respectful or the host will show you the door. If you’re rude or abusive, your comment will be deleted (so will comments responding to other rude comments because they won’t make sense – so save your breath). And if you’re offensive, you’ll be banned. Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That’s how we’re going to be – cool. Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation…
So, show some respect and stop insulting people. Cool?
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Just wondering which part of my apology do you not understand?
Secondly, the Rules also require commenters not to throw insults like “troll” at those who happen to maintain a sturdy disagreement with the post or some of the other commenters. You don’t appear to have any problem with that. I’ve noticed that men on this site who attempt to mount a reasoned counter-argument to the dominant narrative are sometimes called “troll” or even “pig” (the reader “Lulu” is a prime offender) yet their comments rarely elicit any follow-up apology for being unwisely fired off in the heat of the moment, nor are they removed by the moderator.
I repeat: I withdraw that one remark above, and apologise, as I can see that it was unhelpful and may have caused offence (which was not the intent).
As for the rest: it’s called a different point of view.
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And what is exactly your different point of view Lynden?
From what I’ve read you seem to not believe women when they say this issue has affected their life or you think they are stupid for saying it has.
Then on the other hand, you also seem to dismiss it all as nothing, as no big deal. So far it nearly has 600 shares on Facebook. That could be a fair indication that it is kind of important to women don’t you think?
What are you so scared of? Where is all this malice coming from? Are you that petrified that the status quo might just be shifting?
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