University degrees might be “grossly overrated.”
That’s the IQ2 national debate with National Centre for Vocational Education Research. Its Managing director, Dr Tom Karmel, says that while a university education is useful, there are other paths to consider as well.
His opinion comes on the back of a Federal Government proposal for 40 per cent of Australians aged between 25 and 34 to have a bachelor degree by 2020.
Editor of Lip Magazine Zoya Patel says:
Here’s something they rarely tell you when you’re leaving university – the real world may not give a shit about your degree.
Graduating from university no longer seems to hold the import it once did. I assume there was a time when tertiary education was like a job guarantee. It set you ahead of the pack, put you in a different class of worker. Surely that’s why my parents pushed me to go to uni pretty much from when I could grasp a pen, right?
Now, it seems that a degree is just another trait expected of applicants in the job market – not an extra, desired quality, but an assumed one.
I’m speaking from personal experience – I’m a recent graduate and I have to say, finding a job after leaving uni was no easy feat.
I graduated from the Australian National University with a Bachelor of Arts degree (known to be the least useful degree available to mankind). I started applying for jobs pretty much as soon as I was sure I would be graduating. For months, I applied for every admin or Communications role I could find.
Although I got called, and interviewed, and eventually found a great position as a Communications Officer for a small not-for-profit, it struck me that at no time did anyone ask to see my academic transcript. I could have been lying about my grade averages, and no one would have known or cared.
Really, what people were interested in were my extra curriculars, and the outside work I had done (such as editing a magazine, and writing for a range of online and print publications). Ironically, my week-long internship at a local newspaper was of more value than my four years of university.
Why is it that employers are no longer that interested in degrees? Is it because they’re so ubiquitous now that it would be strange for someone to be applying for such jobs without one? Is it just because my degree is so unimpressive (I didn’t even do Honours), and my extra curriculars so numerous that it made sense to sideline it?
I still value my degree, and I definitely see the merit to tertiary education. But it’s interesting that, given the emphasis placed on vocational experience, there was not much of a push towards providing any such experience while I was at university.
Maybe the nature of universities, and the purpose of tertiary education is changing – could it be that degree are less about preparing students for the workforce, and more about a level of intellectual discovery that helps with the development of a life-view, but not so much with a fiscal return?
Certainly there are many far more vocational degrees on offer than the Arts degree I completed, but with more universities considering changing the way that undergraduate studies are structured, this could also be changing soon. For example, the University of Melbourne changed the way that they structure their programs several years ago, so that all undergraduates have a more general education, before specialising through a postgrad course into a specific field.
There’s something to be said for a holistic approach to education, but I wonder if recent graduates will suffer from a lack of vocational experience when applying for work.
Zoya Patel is the editor of Lip Magazine, an independent magazine for young women. You can check out Lip here, and Zoya’s blog, The Coconut Chronicles here.
Do you have a degree? Did you need one to get into your line of work? What was the one thing that employers placed most importance on?






Comments
258 Comments so far
Engineering? Definately need a degree for that.
Of course interpersonal skills are just as important.
loading...
This depends totally on the profession you’re looking to enter. You’re going to find very few employers in the legal or medical sectors that aren’t interested in whether you have the requisite degree. I’ve been asked for my transcript even when applying for volunteer positions at community legal centres.
Now Arts, on the other hand … argh. I just finished an Arts degree (aside from Honours, which is happening now), and I find it hard to work out what actual benefit it’s conferred on me.
loading...
Going to uni taught me how to think and analyse. Editing the student newspaper gave me my job. No one actually cared about my degree, but my uni experience was invaluable.
loading...
It depends on what industry you want to go into. Some jobs require degrees e.g. medicine, law but many employers are just looking for experience and skills. Uni isn’t the only way to get into a career. When I left high school I did a traineeship in Cert III in Business Administration and worked with the same employer for 4 years. I did the traineeship as I didn’t know what I really wanted to do in my career. If you enjoy the work you are doing then that’s what really matters. If you do decide to do a uni degree then you need to know it’s something you really enjoy as you are forking out a lot of money to do it and uni study requires a lot of commitment as well. Also be aware of the job opportunities that exist relating to your area of study. Certificate level courses are good as you can find out if a particular career is something you really want to do, and they don’t take as much time to complete as uni degree.
loading...
Obtaining a university degree is merely but a passport into the real world. It assists in getting your foot in the door. Your marks still play an importance in distinguishing the academically bright from those whose marks may have suffered due to too much campus partying(?!) in order to secure an interview. It’s then up to you to sell your personality at the interview. I agree uni degrees are somewhat ubiquitous and probably no longer regarded as pretigious as they once were but it’s still a means to an end.
loading...
I think going to uni just to continue your eduction is a waste BUT if you are going for a specific career that you need that degree then PHD then go for it
I am currently earning more than my friends who did things like a BofA.
What i think is currently a waste is an MBA, every man and his dog are getting one and so no longer does it help you stand out from the crowd (ie guarantee you a promotion) if you are in your chosen career just work hard and you will stand out from the crowd!
loading...
The degree might be seen as a ‘tick in the box’ to someone who’s a new graduate, but for someone who has grown a management career, then a family, and now changed careers, my ‘useless BA’ as you describe it is paying me back tenfold in life experience, cultural awareness, and sheer ability to think laterally and creatively. I’m using it in ways I never thought possible when I was a hungover 19 year old watching French cinema at Monash Uni.
Besides, compare a 21 year old graduate with a BA and a 17 year old with zits, and I can tell you who I’d rather hire. Both lack vocational experience, but one shows greater potential through being able to think independently and critically and articulate their thoughts in a manner appropriate to the workplace.
loading...
How do you know a pimply 17 year old couldn’t do that better than a 21 year old arts graduate?
I was extremely articulate when I was 17, I didn’t particularly enjoy uni though. It didn’t make me less articulate when I dropped out.
loading...
hey I’m that hungover 19 year old watching French cinema at Monash Uni right now!
good to know this is leading somewhere.
loading...
Hey Zoya! I love Lip Mag!
From my personal experience, having a university degree might not guarantee you a job straight away, but not having one makes it a lot more difficult. I’m thankful that I’ve done a bazillion internships, but I’ve also found that university was definitely worth the $15,000. And not just because of the things you learn, but the connections you make, the management skills you acquire from group assignments, and having a degree also says a lot about a person’s perseverance.
loading...
Having a degree might be needed in order for someone to be qualified. But in order to a get a job you need experience, connections and skills. Getting the degree is half the work.
loading...
My experience is completely different to the author of this article. During my 4 year bachelors degree I had to do compulsary fieldwork placement – can’t remember the exact number of hours, it was either 2000 hours or 1000. Either way, it seemed like a lot. It was hard work at the time, as I often had to do placements in my holidays while still trying to work part time. Overall though, it gave me opportunities to gain a variety of experience- some of which I still draw on today.
I am so grateful for my bachelors degree. I hated uni at the time, but now I really feel that having a degree has made my life easier (although that’s obviously not the case for everyone and you can certainly be very successful without a degree).
I’m currently doing post-grad study by distance ed and loving that too. In some ways, distance learning is the ultimate combination of being able to study and be in the so-called “real world” too.
loading...
Absolutely agree with your story, not only do prospective employers not ask about your qualification, they don’t see it as valid experience for a job. Here is my story http://wp.me/p27xVR-O
loading...
I wish this were true…it is poetic that this has come up at this time.
My husband is studying his Masters. His goal is to teach/lecture at university level. Unfortunately, in his field and in these times, if you don’t have a doctorate you won’t even get your resume read.
In our field, there are no post-grad degrees by coursework in Australia, they are all by research (which is ridiculous in one of the most practical fields there is). So we are in the US. And he wants to go on to his doctorate here. Five years of us away from home in the prime of our lives just so he has a chance (read: not so he WILL have, but so he MIGHT have) at getting into the career he wants.
I want the days back where experience counted for so much more. Between further degrees and the boys’ club culture in our field, breaking in has never been more painful or drawn out.
loading...
I think it really depends on the industry you’re trying to get into.
I relate significantly to this article, as I am studying journalism. A pass or high distinction for a course = irrelevant. Countless hours spent being the work experience kid, volunteering for community radio, writing for ridiculous publications = key for success.
Arts degrees would be the same and I believe this would be due to their lack of specialization.
However, my friends studying law/science/medicine/business would disagree considerably with your article. Their GPA’s. distinctions, passes and fails are extremely significant.
I think that was a point needed to be made!
loading...
Oh yes, my boss was shocked to learn that i didn’t finish high school…. um you hired me you read my CV!
But yeah our grads MUST submit their uni transcripts if they want an invterview.
loading...
I didn’t go to university…so let’s see how my experiences stack up against some of the experiences detailed in earlier comments.
I joined the military and met people from all kinds of backgrounds and areas.
I argued late into the night about “stupid” things – everything from gender and sexual equality in the military through to the increase in terrorist cells throughout SE Asia.
I engaged in shenanigans that might make O-week look a bit naff.
I slept in and missed lectures and was taught there are consequences for letting my team down and wasting my bosses time.
I would hang out on base…and off.
I learnt things I otherwise would not have known including how to take and send morse-code, speak two languages, transcribe, translate and analyse raw data and produce intelligence reports (read at the highest levels of government – Australian and foreign)
And on top of that joining the military allowed me to study my language overseas.
Oh and chances are I earned more than my university counterparts at the time, and continue to earn the same coin as my colleagues with a degree. I have gone from strength to strength since leaving the military and have never been unemployed.
Degrees grossly overrated? Perhaps not…but not the only path to leading a fulfilling and rewarding life.
loading...
I did combined Law (Hons) and Psychology. My transcript was used in the screening for clerkship (summer before my final year) and has been part of applications for entry to masters (Melbourne Uni) and two jobs overseas. Be careful about dismissing the value of your academic transcript – eight years after graduating, and it still has to be stapled to my applications.
My father’s advice: a lawyer can become a truck driver more easily than a truck driver can become a lawyer – i.e. better to get a degree than to realise ten years later (when you may well have children, mortgages and other commitments) that you wished you had one.
loading...
I love your father’s advice! Have stored it away for future use!
loading...
I did a Bachelor of Dance which as a dancer was totally useless because you still have to audition for a show. BUT! i learned soooo much in my three years and now that i am old i am studying a Dip Ed so i can teach primary school. I guess i value the learning and the accomplishment not how impressed future employers will be about my degree
loading...
RMIT University is already a step ahead
they’ve got business degrees requiring a 1yr internship in the industry, along with an industry related curriculum.
loading...
Like many others who have posted before me, I also have an Arts Degree. I saw it as a pathway to discover what career was right for me. So, I undertook further study and completed a Dip.Ed, now I’m an English & History teacher. A university degree is what you make it and of course there are many professions where it is essential you hold the relevant tertiary qualifications. I also think it helps to do a year of post-grad on top of a bachelor degree.
In addition to that piece of paper, the university and learning experience in itself is so very valuable.
loading...
So you can be “dumb” and get paid to do an apprenticeship or be smart and pay to get a degree, which puts you in debt. Unless you are training to be a professional (lawyer, dentist, nurse, dr, etc…) what’s the point??
loading...
I happen to want to be a lawyer so I’m back at uni getting the necessary degree for that, but many, many jobs out there do not require a degree and there is no way I would be at uni if I didn’t have to be. My prior career was in HR and I had no relevant quals for that. I did have a science degree which I used for absolutely nothing, but everything I learned in HR I learned on the job and that was much better training than uni would have been for that type of job.
loading...
I feel sorry for people who didn’t have the opportunity to go to uni.
The ‘real world’ (whatever that means) may not care about my degree, but I do.
It gave me the opportunity to meet people from all kinds of backgrounds and areas. And:
- Argue late into the night about stupid things, like whether or not post-modernism exists.
- Engage in O-Week shenanigans.
- Sleep in, miss lectures.
- Hang out on campus.
- Learn about things I never would have otherwise known about, like The Enlightenment, Marxism and the industrial revolution just to name a few.
- And on top of that, going to uni gave me the chance to study at a European University (the only thing better than being a student, is being an exchange student).
Oh and chances are I’ll earn more than someone without a degree.
I got a job before I even graduated.
Grossly overrated? I think not.
loading...
‘I feel sorry for people who didn’t have the opportunity to go to university’… ouch that comes off as just the slightest bit elitist and patronizing.
I didn’t go to university…so let’s see how my experiences stack up against yours:
I joined the military and met people from all kinds of backgrounds and areas.
I argued late into the night about “stupid” things – everything from gender and sexual equality in the military through to the increase in terrorist cells throughout SE Asia.
I engaged in shenanigans that might make O-week look a bit naff.
I slept in and missed lectures and was taught there are consequences for letting my team down and wasting my bosses time.
I would hang out on base…and off.
I learnt things I otherwise would not have known including how to take and send morse-code, speak two languages, transcribe, translate and analyse raw data and produce intelligence reports (read at the highest levels of government – Australian and foreign)
And on top of that joining the military allowed me to study my language overseas.
Oh and chances are I earned more than my university counterparts at the time, and continue to earn the same coin as my colleagues with a degree. I have gone from strength to strength since leaving the military and have never been unemployed.
Degrees grossly overrated? Perhaps not…but not the only path to leading a fulfilling and rewarding life.
loading...
I’ve done both (started in your job, actually, Fifi) and the military was more fun than uni.
loading...
‘I feel sorry for people who didn’t have the opportunity to go to uni’ is neither elitist or patronising.
‘I feel sorry for people who didn’t go to uni’ IS both.
I have a friend who didn’t have the opportunity to go to uni because straight after high school she became the full-time carer for her mother who had MS. She did not have the opportunity to go to uni.
Another friend could not afford to support herself through uni and had to work full time instead.
I’m not saying they had lesser lives or anything to that tune. But I know both of them would have liked to go to uni, so I do feel sorry they didn’t get that opportunity.
loading...
agghhh…now that changes the complexion of your first comment altogether…
And whilst I think it’s disappointing for your friends to not have been able to do something they would have liked to do right out of school…learning is life long. And with a multitude of ways to earn qualifications…at any stage in life…I think their struggles, setbacks and life experiences will only enhance what they get out of a uni experience.
loading...
Yes, it’s not like you can only go to uni (or join the military) from 18 – 25, like a Contiki tour!
Having done both as a mature ager, I strongly support starting both uni and recruits at an older age. I think they should raise it to 19 for both, so even if you’ve spent the year between HSC and recruits/uni sitting on your bum on the dole, you’ve had a break, turned 18, you’re out of school… It would save a lot of grief having that little bit of maturity in both environments.
loading...
I spent 4 years on a BA which gave me the time to decide on what I really wanted to do which was teaching. I then went back to study teaching which I loved. I couldn’t have done that teaching degree without having previously studied. I wouldn’t have had the respect or maturity needed for teaching without having done the BA. I have since gone back and done some postgraduate study relevant to an area of teaching I was interested in and which has won me promotional positions. So for me uni degrees have been well worth the time, money and effort.
loading...
I am in the final year of my BA majoring in Anthropology with Development Studies Minor. I agree with many of the posters here, university is what you make it. I have been taught to think critically and this skill is something that you don’t get with vocational training. Will that help me get a job? You bet.
loading...
I also have an arts degree from ANU. I think it was a valuable experience however, I think the most valuable part was my honours year where I had to do some serious research and learn about balancing and producing a number of major projects at once. I also did an internship in my honours year.
I really think there should be a greater emphasis on internships in undergraduate years – you get practical, ‘real-world’ experience, and, if nothing else – at least you know a bit earlier if it’s really what you want to do
loading...
University has never been about getting a job. That’s what TAFE and training courses are for. University is meant to be about education and learning to think. Coming out with your shiny new Arts degree (I have one too!) and expecting that somehow means that you have a piece of paper that commands respect and employment is a bit ridiculous.
loading...
If university’s not about getting a job, what are Law, Education and Medical degrees for? You can’t be a law-talking guy, teacher, doctor or (registered) nurse without a degree.
loading...
Good Lord, I hope my degree isn’t grossly overrated, otherwise the past five years have been an extraordinarily painful waste of time!
loading...
Sure u can get university level jobs with out a degree like my father and brother did. But as my mum always said without that peice of paper you’ll get paid squat! And its true. Mum was a registered nurse so she got paid well. Dad never finished his degree nor did my brother and they have never been paid what their job is worth.
loading...
I don’t think that is always true. Many people in IT don’t have degrees and make very good $$$.
loading...
I think it depends on what you want to do. Obviously if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, scientist etc it makes sense to have a huge whack of training and theory under your belt before you start the actual job. But there are plenty of other jobs where I think on the job training is better. I didn’t go to uni, I got two scholarships at the end of high school to go but didn’t see the point in studying when I still didn’t know 100% what I wanted to do with my life. Every man and his dog can graduate from uni these days it seems, I have worked with a fair few graduates (One working on their masters) and they were the most painful people to work with. No initiative what so ever and had to be spoon fed so often that they drove me up the wall.
I did end up going back to complete a diploma at Tafe out of interest though, fabulous place to study! You actually learn skills you will use on the job rather than theory which is great. The only thing I noticed though was almost my entire class graduated – even the ones that did bugger all work and rode on the group marks of others in their teams. It’s no wonder when most people graduate they end up starting at the bottom of the ladder anyway, qualifications don’t necessarily mean you know anything.
loading...
I agree that your Uni marks rarely matter, except for when applying for grad positions, top tier frims etc. In some industries having a degree is less important than having experience, particularly at entry level. It’s disappointing to feel that you’ve invested years and thousands of dollars and friends who skipped Uni are earning more.
Later on in your career when you apply for jobs in other companies or industries it’s likely that most of the other applicants will have degrees. Recruiters are looking for ways to differentiate between candidates and cull to a manageable number of interviews. If you don’t have a degree it’s much more likely that you’ll end up on the ‘no’ pile.
This is particularly true in tough economic times, my husband never needed a degree in his twenties and earned more than most of his friends who had one. Then he was retrenched in a downturn and found himself competing against degree qualified applicants. He has had to go back and study part time while working full time and raising a family.
I’m sure you’ll be happy that your degree is on your resume later on in your career.
loading...
It’s been a long time, since I had to show my degree or transcript, but I do remember a potential employer being really pig-headed (after two interviews) about wanting to see my degree, my HSC and my school certificate. It was an entry level job that certainly didn’t require any heavy qualifications, with not much going for it in terms of money or environment, but the HR woman just wouldn’t listen when I tried to explain that I’d lost my school certificate during a house move but that surely my HSC and degree proved that I’d passed year 10.
She wouldn’t budge, which said a lot to me about the company, so I told them I was no longer interested in the position. Can’t say I’ve ever regretted it, or my Arts degree.
loading...
Degrees are totally over rated. We have degrees in Australia that in the U.K are vocational like radiographers and nursing.
Makes more sense to train on the job- that is where you really learn and when this is supported by some education it is much more in context.
makes sense as they help fill the shortage in nursing staff and also earn a minimal wage while earning a good gualification.
I have a degree and it is necessary for my work but I still learnt much more on the job after graduation.
When everyone has a degree they fail to mean a great deal.
loading...
Diploma courses for registered nurses are being phased out in the UK. From 2013 only degree courses will be offered & they no longer train enrolled nurses.
I know there are different views on this but I found my nursing degree very useful when I started working, especially the analytical & research skills it gave me, and still do.
loading...
The advice I would give my kids on leaving high school is this. If you want to be a doctor/barrister/nurse/dentist/engineer etc, get yourself a degree. If you want to be a electrician/builder/plumber, go and get an apprenticeship. If you want to work in the media, try and get a cadetship.
I now live in the UK and a lot of press coverage has been turned on the thousands of students who have graduated in the last three years or so with a 2:1 in media studies and who are now on the dole queue. A media studies degree (or many other of the same ilk) might be fine when the economy is booming, but when things bottom out, like they have here, then you learn pretty quick the ‘value’ of a degree.
Having studied a BA, I can’t think of a time in the 12 years since graduating that I have used my studies in any way. I could have read the same material from the local libarary. And for those who say uni teaches you to research and think critically, I say, maybe, but I know pretty book smart people that never studied at Uni. But I did learn that my marks went up when I wrote essays that appealed to the (always) left leaning lecturers poltical views. So maybe I did learn something – how to play the game
loading...
Completely agree with all of this, though I would add on the advice to kids bit that if they don’t know what they want to do when they finish school then just think of something they might like to do and do a cert 2 or 3 in that area to see if they like it. They can always increase their qualifications from there and get maximum gov funding to do so. I have a bachelor degree, but now am following my dreams and starting right at the bottom again doing a cert 3 but because I have a higher qualification (even though it is in a completely different field) I have to pay the entire cost of the course upfront while other students without qualifications don’t pay a cent. I also have a $20000+ hecs debt for a degree I am never even going to use. There is no time limit on when you can go to uni, you can still become a lawyer when your 35 if thats what you decide you want but its a costly mistake to make if your not really sure.
loading...
You don’t need a degree to get a job, but if you want a career it is pretty much a prerequisite in most environments.
You would have to be exceptionally talented to progress in an organisation without one.
There are plenty of examples of incredibly talented people without degrees who have fantastic careers, but in my experience they are the exception rather than the rule.
In a tight employment market I would rather be looking for a job with a degree than without one. (even an unrelated one)
loading...
I think this varies greatly depending on the industry. There are very few doctors without a degree, but a very large percentage of IT workers don’t have a degree and do very well still.
loading...
There are NO doctors without a degree!
loading...
I was being facetious, bit it not entirely true. The requirement to put ‘doctor’ on your door is not judged by whether you have a degree or not, and some shonky alternative medicine practitioners exploit this loophole for false credibility. But you are right the standard ‘doctor’ as seen in a hospital must have a degree.
loading...
That might be the case, there are plenty of IT jobs without needing a degree, but if you want a career to progress through the ranks of a company it would be easier with a degree than without.
I have worked in a bank and seen the degree qualified IT guys end up going through the ranks to becoming senior executives. The non degree guys go as far as project managers or program directors and not much further.
loading...
It was the first thing that came to my mind.
loading...
Fresh home from my Faculty Prize evening so I might be a little biased right now but I have learn’t so much in the last two years at uni, absolutely loveing it! have met amazing people, built a network and can’t wait to do more. I’m doing a Ba Commerce majoring in Human Resources, love that I have been forced to cover all the basic business units as well as my specific subjects. I have been taught by leaders in their field both academically and in the workplace and been introduced to many industry leaders. Like anything; I truly believe Uni is what you make of it!
loading...
There is more to getting a degree than simply using it to get a job in a particular field. There’s a lot to be said for increasing the knowledge of an individual and ultimately increasing the knowledge of society in general. Learning for the sake of learning isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
To take it a step further, research for the sake of it isn’t a bad thing either. We may get some really silly answers to some of the silly things that are being studied, but without researchers of all disciplines being able to do research and investigate anything wierd and wonderful that comes along, we may not have penicillin and other antibiotics today. We also wouldn’t understand psychology as we do, or have plasma tv’s, or any other tv for that matter.
Degrees are only as useful as the graduate wants them to be. It also depends on the course studied. While there are a lot of arts degrees that are good for the individual, they don’t always lead to a job. But if you want a job as soon as you leave university, study engineering, the country simply doesn’t have enough.
loading...
I did a BA, went into an unrelated no degree necessary job. Considered the degree worth doing, but largely irrelevant. A few years down the track (and back doing a Masters for a new career) I have realised what sets most tertiary educated people apart from the rest is critical thinking skills. Your degree may not teach you how to do a specific skill that helps you get a job, but I see a real difference in thinking skills between degree educated people and vocational/work experience only. If you can pair that skill with making your own way with internships, being proactive in looking for jobs and being job ready then you are a step ahead of the rest.
loading...
Totally agree re thinking skills point. I find uni grads on the whole are better at constructing well-thought arguments and have stronger verbal reasoning skills (in my line of work, marketing, anyway)… Probably as a result of those endless open ended essays and exams which require you to research and prepare an opinion on a topic.
loading...
I couldn’t have become a Registered Nurse without a degree – although the degree itself did very little to prepare me for the job. It seems you spend three years getting the piece of paper, then learn 99% of the skills you’ll be using day-to-day once you’ve started working.
loading...
I feel certain that the author is making this argument because in retrospect they have realised an arts degree is meaningless in terms of being qualified for a specific profession. A waste of time? Maybe. If you enjoyed and feel you got something personal out of it then it wasn’t a waste. A broad degree like arts can sharpen your professional and academic literacy skills and develop critical thinking and problem solving abilities. However just about anyone can do a degree such as a B.A. It sounds harsh but it is true. A degree like that will only get you so far, because employers know that in a Bachelor of Arts, the body of knowledge is broad and general – it is not specific to anything really, and there is not much about it which really enables you to stand out from other applicants.
There are certainly other pathways to many careers, but I don’t agree with the “expert” that degrees are grossly overrated. Unfortunately in many sectors, that piece of paper speaks louder than any other experience or community work that you have done. Without a degree you cannot become a Doctor, a nurse, a teacher, an engineer, a lawyer, a dentist, a psychologist, a social worker, a scientist, a researcher, a speech pathologist, a radiologist, a pharmacist, an architect… the list goes on. There is nothing overrated about getting a qualification to go into those industries.
I think if you know what direction you want to take your career, get knowledge and qualifications specific to that area and research job opportunities around you. There is no point in doing a BA in communication and becoming an expert in social media if there are no jobs to match your interests. Get a business degree in human resource management or marketing. Instead of doing a degree in english literature, do a journalism degree. Make yourself more employable. Don’t kid yourself that someone who has a degree in a specific area is getting the job before you only because of a bit of paper and that you have just as much knowledge. If that were the case employers wouldn’t care – they’d be happier because they could get away with paying you less! In many sectors a degree = a specific and deep body of knowledge that directly relates to the profession.
I think maybe we just need to offer more career advice as school as to which occupations require a specific knowledge set, and what the other options are so that we don’t go to university “just because”. It isn’t the path for everyone. However in saying that, a degree can demonstrate to an employer that you are capable of both committing to and completing something significant.
loading...
I think often the actual time put in is a waste, but unfortunately getting the piece of paper is often necessary.
I’m currently in the same industry my grandfather was in. He started at 15, no experience, a high school drop-out. He talked his way in, moved around departments learning everything, got promoted twice in his first 6 months, reached the very top of his profession.
I did a double degree, but the only reason I even got interviews was because I have a few languages under my belt. Without that, I would have needed to do a masters to even get a foot in the door. Which is absolutely ridiculous. There was nothing in those first few years that a high school grad couldn’t have handled (I think I spent at least 50% of my first year doing coffee runs, photocopying etc.) and as I’ve advanced I’ve relied solely on my experience, not my education. In fact, I’ve mostly had to unlearn everything in order to do my job well.
I’d love to do a BA. My degree was a total waste of time, education-wise.
loading...
I did my degree in ecommerce and hated a lot of it. I just wanted to do journalism but back then it wasn’t feasible (medically and financially) for me to move to Melbourne or Sydney to study.
I wasn’t good at some the subjects like I was used to at highschool. But I’m glad I did my degree as I needed it to get a job in a graduate program.
Now I’m doing my masters in communication … Almost finished! Got my thesis due this June.
I have loved every minute of it. I put it down to me making the choice to do the study in the field I’m interested in. I’ve majored in joinslusm and social media. I’ve done well at the subjects I’ve taken. And I think because I have a job, there’s not as much pressure in this degree – the pressure is placed upon me on my own accord.
And now I’ve studied journalism I don’t want to be a journo in the true sense – but I’m so happy I learnt the basics and now have the tools of the trade. It’s so relevant to my writing on my blog and elsewhere.
loading...
Not my degree, can’t practice as a Pharmacist without a B Pharm.
loading...
A degree isn’t just about a job at the end of it. A university education broadens your knowledge, something that today’s society is valuing less and less. Sad really, especially this article.
loading...
indeed, very sad and discouraging for every uni student working there arse off
loading...
I hope these ‘uni student’s doesn’t include you!
it’s their not there.
loading...
I think the point of the article is that there are other options, over and above a university degree, to learn and develop knowledge, skills and experience which may or may not be equally or more pertinent to employment prospects depending on the profession.
I think this article is effective in managing expectations of undergrads and encouraging them to see the importance of extra-curricular and industry-specific relevant work experience throughout their study.
Things like interpersonal skills, problem solving, decision making, team work, verbal communication skills – these can be developed in non-university settings just as effectively, if not more, than through the pursuit of a degree and are incredibly important attributes in many industries and roles.
loading...
To be a professional musician you don’t NEED a music degree.
However the skills you learn at a tertiary institution are going to make you a far better musician.
At the moment I am studying Combined degree in Music and Arts (Psychology) and I’m doing music honours. People ask me all the time ‘but what will you do when you finish?’, and most assume that I’ll just be a music teacher. However, I have FAR bigger life goals.
I love what I am studying and have learnt so much and have so many different skills and so many different options!
…and I think my dream job is to be performer/lecturer/researcher/writer/director – at Universities!
loading...
‘just be a music teacher’ however, I have FAR bigger life goals.’
I’m a music teacher and LOVE my job. How dare you put it down like you just did! You want to be a lecturer? That is a teacher! I hate to break it to you, but majority of the people I studied with at the con are tutoring privately in primary schools or are gigging to make ends meet.
loading...
I have nothing against teaching or music teachers!
I am already working as a individual tutor and I love that too! And my boyfriend is studying music ed.
Very sorry to offend you.
The think that gets to me is that I am studying a Performance not education and yet people don’t assume that I want to be a performer (or that they don’t assume I’m good enough to be a performer!)
loading...
You need to be a little bit careful about how you regard the people who got you to where you are. I am a music teacher, I absolutely love my job and I am damn good at it. Being very good and loving my job is fulfilling for me.
I can lecture. I can perform (casual in WASO). I am a composer and arranger. Not aiming for these things as a full time career does not mean I am not aiming high enough. It means I am aiming to immerse myself in my job so that people such as yourself can get as much enjoyment out of music as I do.
The reality is, no matter what you believe, most music students will wind up teaching. It is not an unfair assumption to make. Even if you wind up playing 15th flute in SSO, you will still teach. Hell, if you play principal flute in SSO you will be expected to teach! Lecturing is teaching. It is not better or worse than ‘school’ teaching.
There are examples of universities/lecturers burning the music teachers in the high schools, resulting in teachers recommending their students attend a different university (this is happening in a round about way in Perth). Tread carefully. While your comment may have been innocent, music teachers are a passionate group of people. I understand the thoughts behind your comment, but others may not.
Lecturing/performing/researching/et al is not a ‘higher’ path. It is merely a different one.
loading...
I’m a teacher, and have changed areas. I began a masters in the area I am now working in, and quit within a week. It was all wanly theory. It wasn’t practical. I was paying for it myself (rather than an employer paying) and I figured that if I was doing it I wanted to do it well. But I didn’t want to spend all my free time doing a degree that was theoretical and not practical.
So I quit. I have friends who have just finished masters (paid for by employers (mostly govt)) and they did last minute assignments, the readings they had to for 2 assignments a subject, but have graduated. Seems quite worthless.
loading...
I’m a program manager without a degree. I have the standard industry certifications (always paid for by my employers) and experience in a variety of sectors across four continents…wow, this is beginning to sound like a job application!
Seriously, it does entirely depend on the industry as to whether or not degrees are essential. I’ll admit that in mine, I’m certainly more of an exception – most employers don’t ask about my degree until after they employ me, having made an assumption that I have one. It is never a problem when I say I don’t, I think they just then wonder what it was other than a piece of paper that has gotten me into the position that I’m in, earning a six figure salary before I was 25 years old. It also helps that IT pays project and program managers fairly well and program managers can easily earn in excess of $200K a year on permanent, much more for contract.
That isn’t to say that I don’t love learning – I do! I now speak four languages, but went the route of self-study and then immersion (moving to the country) to learn them. I read like crazy and develop non-work related skills and knowledge in other ways, for example, through volunteering, through participation in UN programs etc.
I’ve never been knowingly rejected from a job owing to my lack of degree. Having said that, next year I plan to start a law degree. It will have absolutely no relevance to my work but I’ll do it for the sheer enjoyment. I suspect that I will do it much better now than if I had done it fresh out of school – I needed twelve years to travel the world and attend the “university of life” (excuse the horrible cliché) to grow up and understand my strengths and interests. Fortunately, the fairly senior roles that I’ve taken on through my 20s have instilled a fair bit of maturity in me and taught me a lot about my strengths and weaknesses which I figure can only make me a better student.
That, I think is the point – university develops a set of skills (research, critical analysis etc) and knowledge which, although can be developed in another medium, are pretty common to the tertiary curricula; work experience develops many more practical skills and experience which can be applied in decision making, in approaches to work, in problem solving etc, which often is ultimately more important to an employer.
loading...
Well, I did a BA, admittedly not the most useful degree. However, when I started the degree it was promoted as the ‘flexible’ degree that you’d do to fit into all sorts of workplaces. I ended up doing administrative work and making coffee… I have to say that I’ve used my degree quite a bit in my jobs, but it’s never been essential.
And you might say that that’s because I did a BA…
My sister has a degree in the health sciences and works in the ‘allied health’ area in hospitals. She’s had a hard time getting work and has gone overseas where she has so many job offers that she finds it hard to choose which one she’d rather do. My brother has a degree in HR etc. He found it hard to get work after graduating, became a travelling sales man for a multinational, started a BEd, quit because lets face it, that’s what most people do when they can’t get work…
These stories are repeated throughout out my friends, most of whom did ‘sensible’ and vocational degrees.
In my opinion Universities need to be more realistic in how they advertise the usefulness and post-graduation possibilities of students undertaking degrees. It is important for people to study liberal, visual, creative and performing arts, theoretical sciences, etc etc.
Universities need to improve the content of degrees so that students are able to apply what and how they’ve learnt to jobs and job applications, so that some degrees are much more vocationally oriented without losing the very important content.
loading...
That is not true, if they didn’t care I wouldnt have been rejected 12 times just this past week for graduate positions in commerce/accounting by companies after “well rounded” students. I may only have retail experience but its a struggle to get even a toe through the door
loading...
It’s education inflation.
loading...
People who complete useful degrees are fine. When I graduated from Medical Science in 2010 I got a job as a scientist within a month. Maybe it also had something to do with the specificity of the degree ie. You do science; you become a scientist, you do medicine; you become a doctor, you do law; you become a lawyer etc. You do arts; you become…whatever.
loading...
Sociologist, anthropologist, historian, linguist, political scientist, so on and so forth.
loading...
That’s wishful thinking. All the arts graduates I know are in admin, public service or hospitality.
loading...
I did Sociology and Linguistics/Language Specialisation. These are immensely practical and important areas of study. Doctors, Lawyers, Politicians, Educators etc all need what we can contribute, both practically and theoretically.
Getting a job with those skills is pretty hard. It just is. There are many graduates every year, and comparatively few jobs for graduates with those types of skills. The competition is truly fierce.
loading...
You don’t sound fine, you sound a bit….mean
loading...