by JASMINE GARNSWORTHY
That headline is enough to make your head spin. More on that in a sec. Let’s start with some good news.
Size 14-16 model, Robyn Lawley, has proven yet again that gorgeous women come in every size in a catch-your-breath-gorgeous swimwear shoot for Cosmopolitan Australia this month. The eight-page spread features Lawley on location in the Cook Islands and it’s divine.
Kudos to Cosmopolitan. How refreshing to see some diversity in a swimsuit shoot. MORE PLEASE. She’s also been Australian Vogue‘s first ‘plus-size’ covergirl, Ralph Lauren’s first ‘plus size’ model and the face – and body – of Boux Avenue, a British lingerie line.
If she were here we’d high-5 her.
Take a look at Lawley’s shoot for Cosmopolitan Australia and keep clicking for more candid and professional shots:
Robyn Lawley models for Cosmopolitan Australia
And now for the bad news. While Lawley’s success is an exciting indication that the fashion industry, both internationally and at home, is moving in the right direction (hurrah!), it’s still a little baffling that this 23-year-old Sydney model is considered ‘plus size given that the average Australian woman is a size 14-16.
Wouldn’t that make Lawley “normal sized”. Anyone? Anyone?
For an industry that earns it’s keep on selling women clothes, it’s sure taking a while for the industry to change their view of ‘plus size’ and ‘average size’ and to make room for all types of female beauty. A little hint: women are more likely to buy clothes when they appear on bodies they can relate to, but you can read more about that here.
If you’re a size 14 plus - like most of Australian women – you should know we stock the 17 Sundays label (on sale here on Mamamia Shopping ) and Sirens Swimwear’s seriously flattering swimwear here. Flick through the gallery for a peek at what’s available now:
A-line, colour-blocking tank - $55 at Mamamia.com.au/shop
Comments
91 Comments so far
Hi I love the idea that size 14 to 16 is average, but I have to say it still does not instill any confidence in me because I feel that people look at me (I am a size 14 to 16) and they are thinking god she is so over weight (I hate to admit but I am 5 foot 2 and I weigh about 70kgs). I find I normally wear clothes that are to big to just hide myself away. I have a beautiful 18 month old baby girl and I hate to feel that she will be treated abnormally because of the way she looks, she is currenlty a very petite little one but still, it scares me to think she will be treated the same I wish that society would stop this pre ocupation with size and appearance!!
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Our perception of what is healthy is way out of whack. There are so many different body shapes on women l think only you and your doctor really know if your healthy. l’m 27 was about 60kg, 1.65cm with a healthy BMI before l fell pregnant, but if l walked out on the beach in a bikini most people would say l looked fat and needed to lose weight even though l could play a 90min game of soccer.
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Love that Cosmo is celebrating different body shapes! Robyn Lawley is gorgeous, and an inspiration to be proud of who we are, without succumbing to modern society’s ridiculous standards. I hope this has a chain effect and more magazines will be willing to feature models of every shape, as it isn’t fair to have them decide what’s beautiful and what’s not. Good on you, Cosmo. We must embrace natural beauty!
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The fashion industry (and it’s designers) has never really made clothing for the average woman……….it’s all about art and aesthetics and promotion and pushing dreams on to people who can barely afford the clothes and who stress themselves unbearably if they don’t resemble those models.
It seems to me that if dress designers could find a cheap way to make clothes-hangers literally move down the catwalk draped in their clothes – they would.
Conversations about sizes 6 to 8 and BMI’s and “what is healthy” leave some of us feeling like crap.
The aim to be healthy IS important but some people fall prey to illness.
There are serious health issues that cause some people to be trapped inside of their “abnormal” bodies…….being admonished by skinny healthy people is further torture and the pain, medications and lack of mobility to burn up enough calories to keep them at “normal” is just part of a vicious cycle that “healthy” people simply cannot envisage.
My concern is that people in our society are being increasingly judged as to their worth, their perceived personality flaws and their intelligence based on what is considered physically normal.
Did you know that most advertising is driven by FEAR ?
That people are being “played” as fearful suckers to be manipulated for profit?
The fanatical focus on body shape is blurring other more important issues and is damaging our ability to thrive as individuals.
People should have the right to be appreciated for their uniqueness and talent and kindness – not discarded because they don’t have the body-shape of a 12 year old – but that’s another conversation.
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I think Robin lawley is gorgeous, but i don’t think size 14 is or should be ‘normal’.
I am a size 14. I am overweight. I am 175cm tall and 82ish kg. I am overweight and therefore unhealthy. It is entirely my fault and entirely up to me to fix. Not trying to be self-depricating, just completely honest.
I think telling people what is and isn’t normal is dangerous. If you feel crap in your own skin and clothes, you know what to do.
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I have a question….why do Gap make mens skinny fit jeans in a (definitely not skinny) size 38 waist ?
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City Chic and Big W do skinny jeans in sizes 18+ too.
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I know!!!! Pisses me off so much! I’m size 22 and I never look skinny when I wear skinny jeans! All it does is emphasize my cellulite and love handles. I saw a pic of Scarlet Johansson in white skinny jeans and bought a pair and it made me look huge!
FALSE ADVERTISING!!!!
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Sizes mean nothing!
Quote measurements in centimetres and then there will be some perspective. And height will be irrelevant because at the end of the day, a healthy waist size is the same on a short person as on a tall person. And everyone knows that “averages” are misleading… you only need a few extremes to skew the whole.
I can wear anything from an 8 to a 12 depending on the brand / shape of the clothing.
What do those sizes say about me? Nothing! Nor do I weigh myself because the numbers on that scale are only relevant to my relationship with gravity.
I judge my health based on my ability to perform my everyday tasks with ease – run up staircases, reach, bend, lift, have sex etc and my resistance to illness. I do not judge it based on the many labels on my clothing. And I do not judge my worth as a person based on any of it.
Our pre-occupation with size and clothing and other people’s appearances is such a massive f@@king first world problem!!
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I take your point, but waist measurement can only give us limited perspective. Body shape and stature makes a huge difference. For example, if robyn and I were skin and bones my waist would be about 55cm and what would her amazonian 6ft tall waist line be
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Robyn Lawless – beautiful, healthy, gorgeous woman. Not plus size in the real world.
For those you pointing out how unhealthy size 14-16 is it’s really none of your business how people treat their own bodies, and judging how healthy someone is by looking at their weight is fundamentally flawed. It is however, socially responsible to present an accurate view of women in advertising. Wishful think in more ways than one, but I can dream!
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Yet it’s fine to point out the health risks of smoking, drink-driving, excessive alcohol intake, etc.?
Meanwhile, my tax dollars are going to medical treatments for obesity…
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I find it a really concerning trend on MM that there are so many comments and hits professing concern about our “obesity epidemic”. Is it really concern? Or is it disgust, prejudice, repulsion etc masked under the guise of “concern”. Why isn’t there just as much concern about lack of exercise, high sodium diets, yo-yo dieting, stress etc. All of these are just as dangerous to health as beng overweight. Similarly, why has MM not pointed out, as someone below has, that one reason for the “obesity” epidemic is that the BMI ranges were changed. I have posted similar comments before and I usually get quite a few comments asking for my proof or telling me I’m in denial etc it seems to offend people when it is pointed out that people’s size is not necessarily a reflection of their health. Again I ask why? Is it because people are on some level disappoined that they don’t have a reason to denigrate and judge fat people.
The fact is that there are a myriad of unhealthy habits – including incredibly dangerous ones used to maintain a “normal weight”. We need to promote a healthy and active lifestyle and not make judgements about people based on their size.
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It is a DISGUSTING & CONCERNING epidemic?
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Could we get an article explaining why the BMI ranges were changed in 1998, and what health benefits this has brought, as to me currently it just seems that the ranges were changed to sell more diet products- which in themselves seem to just make people fatter.
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Great comment! Diet pills/products keep personal trainers in business as much as fat food outlets! But I believe recent studies at the time showed an increased risk of Coronary heart disease at particular BMIs, and so the definition of obesity was born.
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Health guidelines frequently change based on newest research. ‘Healthy’ alcohol consumption guidelines changed not too long ago, and what was once considered healthy/ safe drinking now is not. Cholesterol / fat consumption guidelines have also changed in recent years to allow for the consumption of good fats. Exercise guidelines used to be 30 minutes 3x a week to 30 minutes every day! I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next person, but really? The BMI for overweight was moved from roughly 27 to 25, and call me gullible but I don’t find it hard to believe research that those with a BMI of 25 have the same health risks as those with a BMI of 27.
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I look at her photos and think she looks hot and she looks like the sort of girl who would go out with her friends, eat a meal, have a few drinks and enjoy herself! I want to look like her.
When I look at super skinny models they often dont look too happy! Someone with that much discipline and who is constrantly hungry cant be too much fun to be around
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In te 60′s my Mother was a size ‘Womens’ – this was also sometimes called 14. I can tell you that her 14′s would be lucky to go around the waist of a current size 10. Sizes have definitely become bigger, andour lifestyles have changedfor the worse. Exercise was what they did then without even naming it. Walk to shops, walk kids to school, polish floors by hand, run washing through a wringer and hang it out – no dryers – etc. food was healthier and fresher – takeaways were rare . Our size now is a reflection of our lifestyle to a large extent.ifsociety choosenot to change we should be happy to accept plus size as the norm.
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My mum says people didnt need to go to the gym when she was young, because housework and gardening was the best workout! Now everyone is too busy and/lazy to do their own cleaning and gardening!
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I wish we’d just use centimetres, centimetres don’t change, sizes are utterly random.. recently got 3 size 10 jeans, one perfect fit, one kinda tight, other pair needs a belt if anything heavy is in my pocket, two of them are the same bloody brand…
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There have been quite a few comments (with a lot of hits) objecting to the normalising of size 14, claiming that for most women this is overweight and as such has negative health consequences. I really wish MM would run an article on the latest research, which I had thought had been quite well publicised – but apparently not, which shows that it is the person’s level of fitness which is far more important to good health than their weight. An active overweight or obese person is healthier than an inactive person who is in the “normal” weight range.
We really need to stop this obsession with weight and clothes size and start focusing on a healthy and active lifestyle. The fact is that some women who may be in the “healthy weight range” and even have the “perfect” figure adopt extremely unhealthy practices to enable them to look a certain way. We cannot judge a person’s health on their weight or their clothes size.
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Yes, but an active woman in the normal weight range is more healthy than an overweight or obese active woman. I work in a hospital and see the direct effects of obesity every single day – diabetes and its horrific complications, heart disease, cancer. It’s called denial. Don’t compare inactive thin women with with active fat women, compare the health of two active groups.
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Yeah thats quite true. I know plenty of people who exercise almost every day of the week and are quite fit but they would be classified overweight.
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I’d like to see this piece of research, because while I am sure fitness increases overall health, I don’t believe you can’t outrun/outexercise a poor or excessive diet. I’d be more inclined to believe that the study was looking at slightly overweight people who exercise, not people who are obese by BMI. Fitness does not diminish the value of the mountains of research telling us that carrying too much weight puts stress on our organs and increases the risk of diseases such as heart disease, diabetes and respiratory problems. Every person is individual yes, and there are always exceptions to every rule; but the majority of very overweight or obese people are at higher risk than those who are not.
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http://www.obesitymyths.com/myth4.1.htm
I don’t know why the link isn’t coming up properly but my computer is playing up!!!!!
This is just one site which shows the research but it has been well publicised for a while now (ie I haven’t gone looking for it I have read it in mainstream newspapers such as SMH and seen it in on ABC’s Tonic etc). NO it isn’t just slightly overweight people a significantly overweight or obese person who is fit and active is healthier than a “normal” sized unfit person. And before people claim that it might be hard for an obese person to be fit, yes some do have mobility issues, but vast majority it is just as easy to regularly do exercise as it is for anyone else.
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Steph, thank you for the link. Please be careful to believe something because someone has cherry picked quotes from a study. The most significant study that I can pick out of this is this:
“Compared with normal weight, overweight and obesity did not significantly increase all-cause mortality risk. Compared with low CRF [cardiorespiratory fitness], moderate and high CRF were associated significantly with lower mortality risk.”
-Obesity Research, 2002
From the actual study:
“In the current study, obese women had a RR of 1.58
compared with normal-weight women (Figure 1), and this
value approached statistical significance (p _ 0.08). One
possible reason we did not see a greater RR for obese
women is that we adjusted for baseline health status as well
as age and smoking in our model. Because conditions such
as hypertension and Type 2 diabetes are to some extent a
consequence of obesity, adjusting for baseline health status
lessens the effect of obesity on mortality because some of its
consequences are removed. In a separate analysis where we
adjusted for only age and smoking status, the RR of the
obese group (RR _ 1.70) was significantly different (p _
0.04) from the normal-weight group.”
“Obesity is an important public health problem; prevalence
of obesity and overweight in the United States are
currently estimated to be 22% and 55%, respectively. This
study was not intended to minimize or trivialize the importance
of these conditions. However, we strongly believe it is
important to consider CRF levels when examining the impact
of overweight status and obesity on mortality. It is also
important not to make the assumption that all overweight
and obese individuals are sedentary and unfit”
So what the study is really saying is that it is important to take cardio-respiratory fitness into consideration when talking about health risks. But it still shows that a fit person in the normal weight range has less RR (relative risk) than a fit but obese person. Whichever way you look at it, in the majority of people, obesity is a health risk factor. I think it is important for people to not be in denial about what optimal health actually means.
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Steph, thank you for the link. Please be careful to believe something because someone has cherry picked quotes from a study. It doesn’t really tell the full story. The most significant study that I can pick out of this is this:
“Compared with normal weight, overweight and obesity did not significantly increase all-cause mortality risk. Compared with low CRF [cardiorespiratory fitness], moderate and high CRF were associated significantly with lower mortality risk.”
-Obesity Research, 2002
From the actual study:
“In the current study, obese women had a RR of 1.58
compared with normal-weight women (Figure 1), and this
value approached statistical significance (p _ 0.08). One
possible reason we did not see a greater RR for obese
women is that we adjusted for baseline health status as well
as age and smoking in our model. Because conditions such
as hypertension and Type 2 diabetes are to some extent a
consequence of obesity, adjusting for baseline health status
lessens the effect of obesity on mortality because some of its
consequences are removed. In a separate analysis where we
adjusted for only age and smoking status, the RR of the
obese group (RR _ 1.70) was significantly different (p _
0.04) from the normal-weight group.”
“Obesity is an important public health problem; prevalence
of obesity and overweight in the United States are
currently estimated to be 22% and 55%, respectively. This
study was not intended to minimize or trivialize the importance
of these conditions. However, we strongly believe it is
important to consider CRF levels when examining the impact
of overweight status and obesity on mortality. It is also
important not to make the assumption that all overweight
and obese individuals are sedentary and unfit”
So what the study is really saying is that it is important to take cardio-respiratory fitness into consideration when talking about health risks. But it still shows that a fit person in the normal weight range has less RR (relative risk) than a fit but obese person. Whichever way you look at it, in the majority of people, obesity is a health risk factor. I think it is important for people to not be in denial about what optimal health actually means.
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We can probably go back and forth arguing about studies etc etc and I agree that obesity can be a health risk. However, as I mentioned in comment above, there are a lot of unhealthy habits – including yo-yo dieting, binging, eating a restrictive diet, excessive exercise, diet pills etc all done to maintain a “healthy weight”. Similarly people in a healthy weight range can have a high sodium diet, can suffer from high cholesterol and be a couch potato. My point is that the media seems to have honed in on “obesity” as being the only risk factor for poor health instead of many other lifestyle factors. My belief is that the media is a reflection of people’s ingrained disgust and repulsion towards “fat” people. Why is society not equally equally concerned about the role preventable stress plays in many diseases?
I don’t think overweight people are in denial – rather they just want some balanced reporting and are sick of being held up as objects of judgement and ridicule by the rest of society; particulary when the majority of those doing the judging have their own health issues.
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I’ve had clients that are fat and fit – they exercise at a high intensity daily, but eat terribly and usually ingest too many calories. You can’t outrun food if you keep eating too much of it!
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Plus sized refers to the clothing she models, not her necessarily. she models clothes are plus sized ranging. It isn’t that hard to understand. she might be slimmish at size14, but the average woman is overweight.
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It’s getting ridiculous… before we know it size 8 and 10 will be considered ‘larger sizes’
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What’s ridiculous is that sizing keeps getting bigger and before know it we will all be in size 8 items that are the equivalent to size 16 now and kid ourselves that our weight is not a problem. Vanity sizing is the reason America has size 0 and they are the most obese nation in the world.
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Why is then that the stores I shop in now have XS and XXS that my skinny 10yo daughter can fit into, but they stop at size L which is 14.
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Not sure where you are shopping chillax, but at 5’1 and 46kg I have great difficulty these days finding small clothes. A lot of shop assistants just look me up and down and say ‘oh you are very little’ and try to find the few size 6’s or XS’s they have in stock! In my early 20’s I was about 2 or 3kg heavier, but often fit size 10 clothes. My niece is 10 y.o and she would have no hope of fitting adult clothes, even XS, although she is a little on the midgety side like her aunty!
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Country Road
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When I go shopping i’m not drowning in size 6s but they sure as hell aren’t rare. Finding a 14 or a 16 though is pretty rare.
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Hardly. Do you know how hard it is to find a proper size 6 item of clothing. Some stores are even getting rid of size 8′s.
We actually have the opposite problem. People have started seeing size 8-10 as super tiny (they used to be the average), size 12-16 as normal and healthy and size 18-22 as a ‘bit overweight’. Ask people what an obese person looks like and they’ll usually describe someone who can’t fit through a door, but I was obese as a size 14, and I had the health issues to prove it.
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This is so true Anon! I’m a nurse, and you would be amazed at how often I hear someone say something along the lines of “You know, the doctor told me I was OBESE? I mean, I know I’m no skinny minnie, but OBESE? Come on, I’m not THAT big” … Actually, you are.
The BMI system might be flawed, and lots of people will claim to be the exception to the rule, but ultimately if your BMI tells you are overweight or obese, it’s more than likely that you need to lose weight.
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My BMI tells me I’m underweight.. And I sit at a computer eating cheesecake all day.
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It’s getting ridicuolous!
Before we know it, size 8 and 10 will be considered ‘larger sizes’.
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I think Robyn Lawley is absolutely gorgeous and I am glad she is such a success…
BUT
I am really tired of her being put up as the “normal” size 14 – 16.
Robyn is over 6ft tall! Her proportions are still that of a model, even if she is described as “plus size”. A 6ft tall size 14 is very different to a 5ft tall size 14.
I am not saying either is right or wrong, and its great to see diversity but she shouldn’t be used as the yardstick for “normal”. I don’t think I have one female friend is is over 6ft tall.
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She might be 6ft tall, but you certainly can’t see her bones sticking out anywhere. She has a more realistic body type that I would happy for my daughter to emulate rather than too-thin models.
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Thank you!! I am 4ft 11in and I was verging on a size 14 after I finished breastfeeding my first born. I walked for an hour every night but it wasn’t until I started eating healthy that the weight came off and I felt so much better within myself. I wasn’t ‘curvy’ or womanly I feel like I was just fat. A few years later and another child I’m down to an 8-10 and it feels a lot better on my little frame. I have a few more kilos to go which are taking forever but I’m happy to lose weight slowly and make the right lifestyle and diet changes for this to be a permanent thing.
I think Robyn looks amazing and I love love love her soft curves but at 6ft tall she isn’t an average Australian woman either.
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Robyn is georgous, and these photos are stunning. It is great to see a model other than size 6 with no hips, and even more importantly modelling great clothes in a stunning location! Usually if you see a “plus size” photo shoot it look like it is far less glamourous.
However, my beef (and from the comments below, I may not be the only one) is that adding “plus size” still only adds one extra body type to the modelling industry. We don’t go from size 6 to size 14/16. Even if average is a size 14, what about 10 and 12?
I know is must be hard for the clothing companies, they are trying to find a body shape that makes their clothes look good. But my personal issue is that I am pear shaped – size 12/14 hips, 10/12 top with no shoulders and a flat chest. I’m 6″2 so I am slim, but 90% of the clothes in magazines would not look good on me (even if they fit – horizontal stripes child-bearing hips makes a slim person look fat).
Maybe I’m asking too much, but what I’m getting at is it isn’t just a size issue. Shape, height and weight all come into it. Some variety would be great – even if the models are a size 8, if she was pear shaped or flat-chested there would at least be something to relate to! Just something other than cookie-cutter copies of the same body.
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OMG, there is no help for me then. I am a size 12 shoe and that is the only ’12′ I have seen for a long time.
Why don’t these people get up to date on what is normal and what is ‘plus size’.?
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For most of us, 14 IS plus sized. There are a few very big boned ladies out there for whom a 14 is perfect, but most of us need to be a size 8, 10 or 12 (all other things being equal). Similarly, I’d call a size 2, 4 or 6 “petite” and again, those sizes are healthy for only a few. I don’t have a problem with 14 being labelled “plus sized”. I’m more concerned about the excessive airbrushing present in almost all modelling shoots no matter how “diverse” and which present a standard to which NONE of us, (petite, average, or plus sized) can attain.
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Statistics can be so deceiving. I sometimes struggle to shoehorn my thighs into my size 12 jeans. I’m 169cm and 72kg making my BMI 25.2 or overweight. And plus size apparently. If I wanted to get my BMI down to a “healthy” 21 I would need to be 60kg. So apparently I should lose 12kg. What this doesn’t tell you is that my lean mass is currently 57kg. That is my bones, my organs, my skin all weights 57kg. At 60kg I would only carry 3kg of body fat. That is 5%. At that weight I would be one of two things. A shell of my former self- or dead.
An do you know what it costs me personally per year to stay “overweight”? Gym fees $800, personal training fees $3000, sports massages $900, chiropractic for spinal issues $620, two pairs of running shoes $450, sports clothing $400, bits to maintain my bike $300, new swimsuits after the chlorine eats them $150, pool and stadium entry fees $500, triathlon club membership $200, competition entry fees $400 and don’t get me started on buying magnesium and iron that I have to take and the amount it costs to feed myself.
Don’t get hooked on the numbers. In that plus size bracket you will find all types of people. Tall people, short people, fat but fit people, disabled people, recovering anorexics, some athletes, women who have just given birth… Do I need to go on? I’m utterly sick of people’s simplistic attitudes when it comes to weight.
And is it any wonder that people are struggling with their health? In our society where we increasing have longer commutes to work, less incidental exercise (where you have to take the elevator because stairs are for emergencies only), with a diet industry and pharmaceutical industry that gets richer the more people diet and fail, where your average packaged supermarket item needs a decoder to figure out the indegredients list, where people are increasingly stressed and get two hours less sleep per night than they did in 1910, where people’s jobs involve sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day instead of moving around. Is it that surprising that people are getting fatter?
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Two issues with your comment. The first is that you said you would have to lose 12kg to be a healthy weight (BMI 21). A healthy BMI is 20-25 so you would have to lose very little weight to be in the healthy range. You chose 21, a BMI at the lower end of the scale. Second, you listed a vast number of expenses that are ‘required’ to keep your weight where it is. Without meaning to sound rude, sometimes simpler is better. Putting a little less unnecessary food into your body and going for a walk every day.
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Thanks for illustrating my point perfectly. I was somewhat expecting these replies but I am still disappointed that they are here. I sometimes think people get a little high from criticizing others about their weight. Of all the information I put there you chose to focus on my weight and decided it was a problem. That is ignorant and shallow. Don’t pretend you are interested in my wellbeing when you pick one of the most useless indicators for determining people’s health. You’re interested in an aesthetic, in shaming people and feeling superior.
I don’t exercise for weight loss, I exercise for performance. When I am in peak physical condition, on paper, I am technically overweight and this was my point. I picked a BMI of 21 to demonstrate how ludicrous BMI is as a measurement. I could be near on dead and still technically have a “healthy” BMI. Not even classed as underweight. I am actually lighter when I am less healthy. I wear size 12 jeans and I’m not particularly tall. I muscley cycling arse can be difficult to accommodate.
Also, I am not doing anything “wrong”. I am committed to a particular sport, triathlon, which is why simply “going for a walk” every day would not be very helpful to me in meeting my goals. Seeing as my last race was a 1.9km swim followed by a 90km ride followed by a 21km run your way of doing things would be quite a downgrade. My weight is not a problem. It is simply a number. So is my BMI. What is much more important is my blood pressure, what my blood tests show, my resting heart rate (49bpm), my endurance ability (try a 4 hour hills ride in 40 degree heat and see how you go) and that this high level of exercise has strengthened my back (scoliosis) and has corrected my IBS.
As for “unnecessary food” where the hell did you get that from? How would you have any idea about what I eat? There is only one rule for eating that applies to everyone- EAT OR DIE. Considering in one endurance training session I can burn around 1800 calories or some people’s entire daily calorie allowance getting ENOUGH food is often the problem.
Beside all this, even if I was overweight for another set of reasons entirely, it would still be none of your business and you would still have no right to make snap judgments about my health. To all the critical people on this post who like to spout off at a moment’s notice with minimal information and make snap judgments- YOU are part of what is wrong with this world. You are the people that make others feel bad about themselves, that drag down their self esteem. There is more to people than their weight. When choosing my friends I will take a caring and considerate person with a less than perfect BMI over a smug concern troll any day.
And yes, you did sound rude.
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Hang on, you were the one who said you’d have to lose 12 kg to be in the “healthy” BMI and you also said you spent all that money to maintain your weight. Now you are telling a completely different story. You may have been meaning something else with your first comment but I read it exactly the same way Anony did.
And now having read this comment I have no idea what it is you are trying to say.
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Sometimes I wish we could just talk in person. It would be easier. I’m having a lot of trouble replying because MM keeps crashing my browser.
I can see what I said might be confusing but I’m not sure which particular bit you are confused about because I’ve now said a lot. I’ll try restating my position.
Simply: I don’t believe people should be judged by their weight on a scale or by their body in any way shape or form. I don’t think being fat is a moral failing and everybody has their reasons and they can be very different. In talking about “plus size” people we will scoop up a wide cross section of people.
I think there are a number of factors about our collective lifestyles that make it easier to gain weight than ever before even if we don’t want to. Peoples weight struggles should not be put down to simply laziness.
That even if you are interested in fitness as I am, our current methods of measuring health like using BMI and weight are deeply flawed and misleading and I was trying to use myself as an example. It is possible to overweight by BMI standards or wear a larger size of clothing and still be very fit. My bit about a BMI of 21 was using myself to demonstrate its flawed formula. I would have to waste a lot of muscle before I even break into the underweight category. I was talking of technicalities so that is why certain words were in scare quotes. I am a larger build and keeping myself to the stats I quoted takes a lot of time and money- more than I would reasonably expect from another person.
Do I make any more sense now?
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@Neeks- I got what you meant from the get-go, regarding being an athlete. Pity more people don’t realise that according to BMI, pretty much all elite athletes (except distance runners etc) are either overwieght or obese. Rugby players, discus throwers etc all stack a huge amount of muscle, meaning their BMI is often 30 or more. Health should be measured by illness (or lack thereof), cholesterol, BPM, cardiac fitness etc, not by numbers on scales and BMI charts.
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Don’t worry Neeks, you made perfect sense from the start. I have been told when I’ve been lighter but still near obese according to the BMI that I’d have to go pretty extreme (eating disorder type eating extreme) and lose a LOT of muscle to get to my “healthy” BMI. What you have said is why it’s flawed – it doesn’t take individual build into account, or gender, muscularity… Use it as a guide but not the only indicator, as Loz says.
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Hi Neeks, I think it is difficult sometimes to follow someone else’s line of thought just from the written word. Apologies.
To me your initial post came across as you were doing all those things to try to maintain a certain weight, not that you are a serious athlete. You talked of shoehorning your thighs and how much it cost to stay “overweight” .
While I take your point about BMI being a flawed measure of obesity, I do think that most people are able to identify if they fit into one of the exceptions to the rule. Eating disorders notwithstanding I think it is important that the community is held to account for our ever increasing unhealthy lifestyles.
I’m not sure what can be done about the entertainment industry portraying everyone as blemish-free and “perfect” but you only have to look at the thriving beauty, diet, and “fitness” industries to see the massive influence they have.
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BMIs are not meant to be used for athletes. They do have much higher levels of lean mass than ordinary people. But do you really believe that a majority of people who have a BMI > 25 are athletes?
Perhaps it would be more accurate to measure fat percentage and/or fitness. But health authorities are looking for simple to understand and perform metrics. Even if that’s at the expense of misclassifying a minority.
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Weight loss is 80% food 20% exercise
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Wizz, with respect to your comment and you…
This is my greatest bug bear after 10 years the fitness industry and hundreds of clients. I’m not even sure what it refers to – 80% of what exactly?
Weightloss is 100% calories in vs calories out. Some people eat too much and ingest too many calories. They need to reduce their intake. Some people are sedentary, allowing their metabolism to fall and making it harder to lose weight. They need to move more. Saying weight loss is 80% of anything is unhelpful because it is utterly, completely and unequivocally individual. And to be honest, in the end if you stick to a calorie limit it doesn’t really matter what it is you are eating, you ll lose weight anyway. For example, eating 1500 calories of Macdonalds every day and nothing else will result in weight loss Not very healthy. Similarly if you burn an extra 2000 calories per day doing incidental or planned exercise, you will lose weight all else being equal.
Weight loss is simple, its just not easy. And its different for every person that attempts it. In the end, if you know the caloric and nutritional value of your food and get yourself moving more you will be able to engineer your own weight loss plan. But for most people it wont be 80% diet.
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It would be much easier if we all came with a display that showed two things on us – calories in and calories used up. Both are in practice pretty hard to measure and vary from person to person significantly – eg one person can eat the same food as someone else but absorb fewer calories.
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No disrespect but if you are spending almost $8000 to stay at a certain weight you are doing something very wrong.
If you eat real fresh unprocessed food and commit to consistent and significant movement each day eg walking at least 10,000 steps, you can save yourself a packet.
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Well teacup, I think you would be talking about many people then. Most people I know exercise daily or every second day, myself included, and as middled aged parents with reasonably good diets, I would say most of us are at least a bit overweight
We do our best, personal trainers and gyms costs money but i dont think we’re doing anything wrong, we just like to have a balance in our lives. Exercise, eat well most of the time, indulge on the weekend. isnt that what life is all about?
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I think that beauty comes in all sizes but… the quasi-statistician in me must point out that yes, the average Australian woman is size 14-16. But the average Australian woman is also about 40 years of age with at least one pregnancy experienced.
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I was a size 14 ten years ago, and am still a size 14 now except I weight about 15 kgs more. I have a dress that I owned pre-kids and it is a size 14 but would now be equivalent to a size 10 I think. What does this say about the fashion industry? Changing sizes so dramatically?
Robyn Lawley is a “plus sized model” because generally models are a size 6-8 as we all know. She isn’t being labelled a “plus sized person”. I think it’s great when brands use plus sized models but I’m not getting my knickers in a knot about the term because in comparison to average models she is plus sized. I also think she is breathtakingly beautiful!
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I agree that there should definitely be more diversity in the media and advertising but lets not forget that size 14+ is usually not a healthy standard size. I understand that this is not always the case but I dont think we should forget the health problems that come with being “larger” and celebrate sizes 14 and above just because its the average.
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How do we know the average is size 14? Has a study been done to back up this claim?
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Does there need to be one? It probably goes on statistics from clotes sales
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Does there need to be one? It probably goes on statistics from clothes sales
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That’s where the claim is flawed. A size 14 at Witchery isn’t the same as a size 14 at Sportsgirl. There is no standard sizing guildlines that shops have to follow, they can just make up their own.
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Standard sizing guidelines would be great. In Sportsgirl I’m a size 8, but in Country Road I’m a 4. What the what!
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That could be US vs Aus sizing, a size 4 US is a size 8 AU
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Look it doesn’t matter that I am an “abnormal” size 6 and Robyn is a “normal” size 14, at the end of the day, I am never going to be able to afford the majority of the clothes that she models, so the fact that she is considered plus size means sweet FA to me!!! Add to that the fact that I am not even 160cm, I am happy to just look at the girls in pretty clothes, as that is all it really is for me, without lamenting the fact that I will never reach their amazonian heights!
Also, one thing that I have recognised with the whole diversity thing is that most people only give a fuck about size diversity, so at the end of the day it isn’t really a push for diversity, but rather a selfish desire for people that look exactly like them (which is eveident in the language that they regular use to describe those like myself who do not mirror their image).
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So Catherine would you be kind (and brave) enough to suggest here today what “should” be normal, as you claim it is not a size 14?
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I would love to see the ‘normal’ Australian physique fall within parameters that credible research has shown to be associated with reduced risk of serious disease.
An Australian size 14 has a waist measurement of 81-83cm. There’s good evidence to show that a waist measure >80cm presents women with a greater risk of cardiovascular and other disease. This is not where we should be aiming for!
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So if the average woman was sized 18 in a few years time, does that mean we celebrate the normal woman as a healthy woman at sized 18? This argument is back to front. Just because the average woman is between sizes 14-16, it does not mean that sizes 14-16 are now healthy, normal and should be celebrated. As a general rule, if you are sized 14-16 and less then 5’7, you are most likely overweight (not obese, but yes, overweight) and there will be some health issues as a result of this.
If in Australia, the average IQ dropped from 110 to 95, would we celebrate that we are becoming a less intelligent nation – or would we do something about it and encourage better education standards?
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Thank you, Andrea! You articulated my exact issue with the argument of ’14-16′ is normal. Once upon a time it would have been 10… then 12… So if normal changes to 20, does that make everything right? No! Normal can only truly be dictated by the individual and what is right for their health and body type, and that’s that.
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Also thank you for pointing out the height thing! Focusing on sizes and not counting someone’s height (let alone their build) does no one any favours. A 14-16 on me at 5’8 with naturally big boobs and hips is very different to someone 6 inches shorter and built differently in the same size clothes.
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I was recently looking through a magazine which boasted swimmers for every body shape (ie. wear this one if you’re concerned about your tummy, this one if you have a large bust) but they used the same model (who didn’t have a tummy or large bust) in every picture!!
Surely for a pictorial/ article like that they could have used models of all shapes and sizes….but didn’t.
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Wow! Absolutely stunning, who cares what size she is? She looks great, good on her.
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I was at a food court shopping centre recently, and if the ‘normal’ bodies I saw there were ever pictured in a magazine or used to sell clothes, I doubt many would buy them.
Robyn Lawley is a very beautiful AND TALL woman. Robyn Lawley is far from “normal”. She is extraordinary. Size 14 looks good on her and I’m sure her BMI is far less than 30. Don’t suggest size 14 is a good measure of anything – it might be average, but it shouldn’t be normal.
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What is most striking about this article is that it is fully accepting of the fact that most Australian women are size 14 or larger. This is not a healthy weight for the vast majority of women!
All this ‘body love’ stuff is great, but let’s not lose sight of the need for a healthy lifestyle and balanced diet.
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EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT SHE SAID
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yep agree completely…
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YEP!!
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“Wouldn’t that make Lawley “normal sized”. Anyone? Anyone?”
No, it makes her average. Normal is not a synonym of average. You can be “normal” as a size 8 or “normal” as a size 24. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this phrasing on Mamamia and I really wish the writers would word this more sensitively.
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Size 24 is not normal
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There is no such thing as ‘normal’!
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But she IS plus-sized for a model. Of course, she’s not plus-sized for a person. I don’t get why this micro bit of the issue (the terminology) gets so much airtime.
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Robyn is stunning. But she looks nothing like the average size 14-16 woman. She’s much taller and thus has very different proportions. I’ve been a size 16 and I’ve been a size 8, and I looked much more like Robyn does as an 8.
The average dress size just keeps going up. I’ve just reached my 30′s but I’m old enough to remember when size 10 was the average and hardly any brands bothered with size 16 because the market for it was miniscule. It just didn’t sell (and even today a lot of brands can’t get rid of their 16′s). And that’s before vanity sizing came in. These days the majority of people wearing a size 16 label are actually size 20′s if you look at the measurements. I got a very harsh reality check a few years ago when I was shopping in Europe. What we think of as a size 10, 12, 14 and so on these days is much, much bigger than it once was.
If things keep going the way they have been for the past 2-3 decades, it will only be a few years before size 18-20 is the average. I don’t want our ever expanding waistlines to be seen as normal, because it isn’t normal that we keep getting bigger and bigger, and we need to wake up to that fact before morbidly obese becomes ‘average’.
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She is stunning.
I do not read trash mags or many beauty magazines as I do not like to support those that perpetuate and encourage us girls and ladies to become or continue to be, obbsessed with body weight, unhealthy eating and many of us ultimately damamging long term health.
We just need to support the right mags, the right websites and help each other feel good about ourselves!
One at a time, bit by bit, things can and will change! Size 12 is awesome. Nothing wrong with size 6, 8 or 10 either, as long as it is natural for your body.
Eat, look after yourself, and be merry.
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Somewhere in the Australian psyche we need to start kidding ourselves and fill our heads with illusions such as, youth doesn’t equate to young and thin isn’t synonymous with healthy eating and exercise.
Then we can start to pursue wrinkles, obesity and decrepitness as the ultimate goal and then complain there is not enough thin and young people represented.
…OR
We could accept that the pinnacle of life is at youth and that the way we looked when we were twenty, before slowing metabolism and aging took effect, was the way we really, honestly want to be and feel, but can’t ever again.
People will always aspire to look at, be like and be with people of aesthetic exquisiteness au courant..
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Robyn is gorgeous!
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