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I love ME Female Entitlement Mentality: Its all about ME.

And I deserve everything I want.

Female Entitlement Mentality. It’s “always getting what you want, when you want it, even in defiance of reality and other people’s wishes,” according to Miranda Devine, who wrote about FEM in an opinion piece for the Sunday Telegraph over the weekend.

Whether it’s career or family related, Miranda suggests there’s an increasing number of women who believe they live in the age of entitlement and have a “deluded self-belief and inflated sense of importance”.

Her article is based on a survey which found there were health risks for women who put off having children until after the age of 35. What was interesting about the survey, she wrote, was the reaction to the results.

Older mothers were angry at the suggestion they posed a “greater potential burden” on the health system, despite the fact that “no one was telling older women not to have babies or saying they won’t have a perfect delivery. The study simply reported the unavoidable fact that fertility declines with age, and the risk of some complications doubles. Knowing the truth should help women inform their life decisions, and avoid heartache down the track. But the irate reaction suggests some would rather bury their heads in the sand. The hostility was symptomatic of a female entitlement mentality (FEM).”

Expanding on this idea of FEM, Miranda wrote:

Miranda Devine  177x236 Female Entitlement Mentality: Its all about ME.

Miranda Devine

Increasingly in our narcissistic age we see this deluded self-belief and inflated sense of importance, from baby boomers to 13-year-old princesses.

At its extreme, it manifests in the stars of reality shows such as The Real Housewives of Orange County, women whose lives are an epic monument to selfishness.

FEM is the end product of a culture that places self-esteem and empowerment above fairness and common sense. For three generations, women have been told growing up that they are can have it all, do anything, and have unlimited freedom of choice.

This was terrific for women to break free of oppression and achieve equality. But along the way we forgot that some restrictions on freedom must exist, if you are not to trample on the rights of other people and if you accept certain biological realities.

Now, an inflated sense of entitlement means you lash out and blame others when you don’t get everything you believe you deserve.

Some of Miranda’s examples of the Female Entitlement Mentality include:

- The 18-year-old girl who is suing her former private school after she failed to get into the law school of her choice. She claims the school did not support her. The school claims she didn’t finish all her work.

- People who opt for home birth over hospital births. “Their entitlement to a personally fulfilling experience trumps the right of their unborn child to the safest possible birth,” she writes.

- The dating scene. Are women being too picky and coming across as arrogant?

But it’s not just women who are guilty of growing up believing they can “have it all”. As children, we’re lead to believe we can do anything; that we can do anything and be anything we set our mind to.

But to what extent is that true? Where’s the line between thinking you deserve something and actually being able to achieve it?

Your thoughts?

Comments

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254 Comments so far

  1. beck

    This article hits the nail on the head and it is refreshing from the usual “male entitlement” literature – not because only women are entitled, but because female entitlement is separate from men’s and very much under studied -thus adding to the entitlement! Society constantly tells women they are victims – backed up by the chivalrists, the feminists, and the multinational corporations telling women they are victims.

    there needs to be a book written.

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  2. amazing

    This article hits the nail on the head and it is refreshing from the usual “male entitlement” literature – not because only women are entitled, but because female entitlement is separate from men’s and very much under studied -thus adding to the entitlement! Society constantly tells women they are victims – backed up by the chivalrists and the feminists. Women are constantly told tehy are “worth it” by multinational corporations. Feminists make a lot of money by telling wmen they are vicitms – therefore donations pour in.

    there needs to be a book written.

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  3. sophie

    I bookmarked this article a while ago and just went back to read it then on a whim… I think it’s brilliant. That is all.

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  4. Guest

    I think it’s a QUANTUM LEAP to link the fact that women who have children later in life have more birth-related issues and a ridiculous phenomenon called FEM?? Seems like there was a pre-written article on FEM that Miranda tried to force-fit into something more topical. What research/datapoints does Miranda have for asserting ‘the way women are reacting to this research’?? It’s a highly flawed, non-sequitur conclusion…

    Join us next week for Miranda’s opinions on the high incidence rate of divorce and financial challenges amongst women under 25 who have children. Why aren’t we waiting until we’re emotionally and financially secure to have children (let alone to meet someone we actually love?!) Is this FEM?

    I sniff a Miranda authored book on FEM in the wings. Forget it Miranda!

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  5. Janet A

    The entitlement syndrome applies to both men and women but women seem to be taking it to far in things that are trivial.

    Speaking of Kathy Lette, she leads a very rarified life and can afford to do what most of us can’t. But what has happened to her face? Did you see the looks of disdain the Russian woman kept giving her last night on Q&A when Lette was doing her awful (sexist) puns.

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  6. Laurie Atlas

    Yes apologies to Kaz Cooke who I love…Kathy Lette embarassing

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  7. laurie atlas

    I notice a few people have questioned whether Q and A has jumped the shark..well Tony Jones the host certainly has…his overtly pious questioning of the chap from the CIA was just embarrasing

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  8. laurie atlas

    Kaz Cooke seemed to allude to the fact on Q and a last night that women wanted it all and now that they have it…they are not coping. On the other thing we need to tell our kids they can be anything they want because that is inspiring when they are young but as they get older we may need to remind them that we can’t all be famous…that there are many ways and paths to a happy and rewarding life

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    • Anonymous

      that was actually Kathy Lette on Q & A last night, not Kaz Cook

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  9. Catherine

    “For three generations, women have been told growing up that they are can have it all, do anything, and have unlimited freedom of choice.”

    This reminded me of something I read in Kaz Cooke’s book, Women’s Stuff: “It isn’t feminism that lied to you, it’s advertising. Feminism doesn’t mean having it all. It means freedom to choose which things to try to have.”

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  10. Profiterole

    This is really silly. There are people of all types in BOTH genders, I don’t think it’s really constructive to pull out a small group of pretty extreme people and hold them up as an accurate sample of the population at large.
    Peoples’ choices are there own, I think it’s a bit of stretch to say they’re such a burden on all of us.. from what, the hospital bills? It’s none of our business (plus, if they’re having babies at an older age, they’ve probably been working and paying tax until that time. Paying tax into the system that is there to support everyone, including them). Of course these women got defensive when they were asked how they felt as a burden on society – because it’s a ludicrous thing to say.

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  11. AnnaD

    Funny that there are so many people annoyed with this article after so many talked about justifying they’re female buying logic in Mia’s thread.

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  12. Helen

    I’m disappointed that Mamamia would simply recycle the output of this well-known trollumnist. Let’s examine why Miranda would batten on examples of entitled female jerks out in the world while ignoring the many examples of entitled male jerks. The answer is not hard to find. why give more currency to this serial pest?

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    • AnnaD

      Trollumnist! Perfect!

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  13. Karen

    I am incredibly tired of the “too picky” argument. Relationships are between two people and again, yet this seems to be another example of how the woman is to blame. Society is far too harsh on women with EVERYTHING, so now that we think we are worthy of something, a label like FEM is slapped on us. We are not capable of making proper choices- we are “ENTITLED.” Give us a break and credit us for the ability to make choices beyond husband and babies for once.

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    • Haven Maven

      Me too!! *headdesks*

      I’m sorry, but I’d like you to at least bring to the table what I have – job, home, valid license, car, brain in your head….

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  14. Renee

    As a “strident feminist” I object to the notion that this is a female phenomenon, however I agree that we live in a culture that “places self esteem and empowerment above fairness and common sense.”

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    • amyspeak

      My thoughts exactly Renee! Gender and entitlement are not mutually exclusive by any means. I see both women and men who feel entitled, as well as those who make sacrifices for others.

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  15. Steph

    Guilty as charged – I suffer from FEM. I feel entitled to some sleep, privacy in the toilet and an occassional break provided by my partner from the monotony of domestic work and child raising.

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  16. Arabian Knight

    Oh for the love of all things holy! What a sensationalist (and quite frankly, disappointing) article and repackaging of the article. What’s with the assumption that later pregnancies are due to women (note, never men) selfishly choosing other things over childbirth? Is it preferable that they just get knocked up in a certain age bracket, damn the relationship with the father or their ability to provide a stable home? And why are some choices (education, work) more sacred than others (home vs hospital births)? Women are now seeking higher education, which comes at a financial and temporal cost. Perhaps it’s not quite so simple as being selfish, but it reflects changes in society. And why is the syndrome limited to females? There are plenty of men who have similar attitudes – where’s the criticism of them? Also, if you’re going to criticise women burdening the health system on the basis of later childbirth, then I look forward to your similar articles on those who smoke, drink too much, make poor dietary choices, or live with chronic stress. Miranda and the MM team are obviously intelligent folk – these articles are just lazy.

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  17. Anonymous

    You said “the dating scene: are women being too picky?”

    I don’t think it’s possible to be too picky (either as a male or a female) when it comes to dating. Aren’t relationships hard? Isn’t it a good idea to be picky then? If we settle for any old joe blow, we are going to end up with a sh!tty relationship! Why not be picky and wait for Mr Right, instead of being impatient and settling for Mr Right Now?

    The notion of being single is frowned upon but WHY? Single people are pitied which is ridiculous. What bugs me is when I hear someone say “left on the shelf” WTF?! Seriously, people (especially women) don’t NEED a partner. Both women and men are capable of being single and thriving as happy adults, without having a partner attached to their hip. ;-)

    It pathetic to assume an adult is incomplete or unhappy if they don’t have a partner.

    (For the record, I have a partner at the moment and I’m very UNhappy). Lol. Tad biased.

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    • Anon

      I think it is too possible to be picky. Or rather, that sometimes ‘pickiness’ equates to unreasonable expectations of potential partners. I have a colleague who was fairly intelligent but not particularly attractive – by that I mean, despite the fact that she spent a small fortune on clothes, handbags, make-up, hair, etc. – the fact that she was rude and judgemental really made it hard to see her as an attractive person. It was almost as though her intolerance showed through her face.

      Now, she is still lamenting the fact that she’s single, as she approaches her mid 30s. Why? I think it is because she has unreasonable expectations. She wants a doctor. Who is tall, tanned and with muscles. Who owns his own home. Who drives a nice car. Who is attractive. And so on and so forth. She has restricted her choice enormously by applying so many parameters to what she is looking for. And then she assumes that she has enough (looks, intelligence, style, money, education – whatever kind of package it is that these elusive men look for) to snag them.

      On the other hand, when I met my partner, I wasn’t even physically attracted to him. He was a backpacker and so had no money and no job. With time, once we had developed a friendship, I became attracted to him. More importantly than that, he is kind, generous, he is committed to sharing household duties, he is intelligent and someone with whom I can enjoy good conversation and so on. If I had been so constrained in who I was looking for (in fact, I wasn’t looking for anyone when we met) I would not have the wonderful relationship I do now. He has established a career now, earns good money and is probably quite attractive to other women.

      My colleague was shocked when I first met him, that I would take up with such a ‘loser’. Now she’s constantly telling me that I don’t understand how difficult it is to find a man, because I’ve been lucky enough to find a good one. Funnily enough, he’s good now that he’s earning a good salary, now that he has a respectable profession, and now that she’s met him and has decided that, actually, she thinks he’s very good looking – tall, with muscles etc.

      I agree that many of us don’t *need* partners. But if those that have decided that they really do want a partner actually consider what their real values are in terms of a potential partner (and accept that we are very unlikely to find a brain surgeon, Ryan Gosling lookalike who loves DIY and volunteering and cooking and is a qualified massage therapist to boot!) they might find that they have many more options.

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      • anon

        I can see your point but I think financial pressure does cause a lot of marriage problems. I dont see anything wrong with a woman deeming someone unsuitable because she can see being with him longterm will cause financial stress or she sees him as a financial liability. Especially if marrying and having a family with him means she has to live a life she doesnt want to live or would have to live if she remained alone.

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        • Anon

          I suppose it is about what constitutes ‘financial pressure’. If someone feels that they need a doctor earning $250K a year to prevent financial pressure, that’s fine – but perhaps financial pressure can be equally avoided by reconsidering one’s values. For example, how important is it to have a large house, or an apartment in a nice area? How important is it to drive new cars? To travel often? If it is important, that’s fine, but if someone’s choice of partner influences whether or not they can maintain that lifestyle and those choices, then they might have to compromise on other values – such as tall, handsome, muscly, tanned, blue eyes etc – if they really want to find someone.

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          • anon

            Sure, compromise is often required. But lots of people who grew up in nice areas are simply not prepared to move to a down market suburb . Thats why most people who live in nicer areas tend to have grown up in the same area. Or when they cant afford to stay in that area they do become very resentful. Thats why you often see people living in crappy old houses in great suburbs or being locked into working ridiculous hours because thats what they have to do to be able to afford to live in the area they consider a priority. Rejecting a nice guy over his lack of income is shallow but its also realistic.

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        • Equalizer

          The majority of the male population will take in a woman even if she doesn’t have a job why won’t women do the same?

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          • Anonymous

            I wouldn’t say the majority of men are willing to do that, but if they are it probably has a lot to do with the idea that someone has to stay home and take care of the kids. The woman is a domestic goddess, and the man brings home the bacon.

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      • kateb

        And why is it assumed the man has to make the lion share of the household income. i have a wonderful husband, and i have always made a lot more than he does, he has done more than half of the household chores (as he felt that i needed to get my work done) , looked after the kids when i needed to lock myself in the study, and so on.

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  18. Anonymous

    God, how sexist and offensive is Kathy Lette on Q & A tonight – she sounds mighty entitled to me. I could not imagine 25% of that level of sexism being allowed from a man on any TV show, much less the PC Q & A. I guess it is all ok the other way around though.

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    • essessesse

      Kathy Lette is appearing on QA tonight as her usual parody of herself. I think she tries too hard to be funny.

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      • Diana The Huntress

        Kathy Lette hasn’t been relevant since the 80s, it’s just that no-one has filled her in. Her “humour” makes me cringe. Between that and Kate Miller-Heidke last week, I’m wondering whether Q&A is starting to jump the shark.

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      • Elizabeth

        Totally agree. She tries way too hard and she recycles the same jokes from show to show…and that was only in a matter of days. I’m sure she is a lovely person but I find her humour is filled with too many puns or one liners and it is particularly distracting and takes it away with what she is trying to convey.

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        • Lulu

          At least she’s stopped using the ‘melanoma named Bruce’ line. (I assume?)

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          • Anonymous

            Actually, I heard her talk at the Sydney Writers’ Festival and she recycled that one too!!

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    • neola

      Appalling! Then, towards the end, it seemed like the rest of the panel decided to get on with their conversation without her as she had nothing worthwhile to contribute. But she just had to jump in with irrelevant personal anecdotes about her book and her son because she thought they were funny.

      Masha, on the other hand, was brilliant.

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  19. Vaginatarian

    Archie,
    Your comment says it all about this topic and the gender in my eyes – “he can have almost anything…. but not all at the same time! And some choices remove others.”
    Who dictates who should have what, when and how? Certainly not your husband!
    V

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    • archie

      In our relationship, nobody “dictates” anything.

      But we do discuss and decide together. As a team.

      And when one member of the team thinks a new car *and* a holiday is on the cards…. the other team member needs to gently remind them that we only have funds for one this year, and maybe next year we can have the other.

      Or perhaps there is a great job opportunity opening up overseas…. but that means our daughters can’t attend a school in their primary language, as we wanted. Some decisions invalidate others. We can’t have it all.

      But thanks for your assumption I am some kind of surrendered wife. Interesting take.

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  20. Willaway

    What rubbish. Nothing gendered about this supposed phenomenon aside from Miranda Devine’s gender-coloured glasses. Looming deadlines have a lot to answer for.

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  21. archie

    I don’t think this is a gender issue. I know a vast number of men who are incredibly self entitled too.

    As I say to my husband, he can have almost anything…. but not all at the same time! And some choices remove others.

    That’s just life.

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  22. Vaginatarian

    Since when have women not been self centred? I think Eve started it all, that young prat from whatever school just perpetuates it.
    If ironing and housework is a big issue, don’t do it.
    Saves us all from the likes of you approaching-middle-age beings that think the world evolves around you.
    V

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    • essessesse

      I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with your user name.

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      • Kase

        It’s a fun lesbian pun …. Chill
        Pill essessesse

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        • essessesse

          Kase, I”m bemused by your post. Why are you telling me to chill? You’re assuming that I need to calm down? I can’t think why.

          Pill essessesse? Nah. No idea. I’m fine with that, I think.

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          • Kase

            E
            I don’t agree with vaginatarians comment per se, but your comment on her username was unnecessarily provocative and combative – even if that was not your intention it’s how it came across – hence the chilax advice

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    • Lulu

      “If ironing and housework is a big issue, don’t do it.”

      So you just leave it for the elves to do, then?

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  23. Emerald

    When I first saw the title to this piece I thought “why are we always bashing women!” then I saw Miranda Devine. FEM, really?

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  24. EllyEm

    I am 35 and I have not had children yet.My lack of children has nothing at all to do with female entitlement mentality. I am well aware that I may have greater fertility issues and problems if I am lucky enough to fall pregnant over the next few years. I did not delay having children for selfish reasons. I have been in a relationship for a few years and we have discussed children and my declining fertility. My partner is the reason that we have not yet tried for children, not me. I also have begun to have some doubts about whether my partner will ever “grow up” and be ready to be a father. I think if we have children I will be the primary caregiver and primary breadwinner. Is that fair on a child?

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    • Anon

      You will be waiting for a long time if you expect him to grow up first. There’s nothing like having a child to make one grow up.

      Take a chance before it’s too late.

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    • Steph

      EllyEm my desire for children was “primal’ and for that reason I did take a risk and have a child with a less than suitable partner. In my situation the man didn’t change and I became a single mother. Was it worth it? For me yes and I’m sure my son is glad he was born. If I had my time over I would do the same but with my eyes wide open – accepting that an immature partner will not necessarily change when having a child and all responsibilities would ultimately be up to me.

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    • Melsie

      EllyEm, I would be looking to your own Council on this, and trusting your own instincts.

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  25. The Wounded Bull

    You want a classic example of what causes gender entitlement in modern women. How about wanting quotas and affermative action for the best, highest profile jobs that currently have a male skew (like company boards etc), while not saying anything of the many many dirty, dangerous jobs that men also hold in the majority.

    Any young girl watching the news hears time and time again that we need more women on boards and in parliament for it to be ‘fair’ (and any other high profile position deemed worthy of women), but no mention of needing more women in the mining sector, or that more women have to work their butts off, forgo kids, travel, work long hours etc in order to make it to those type of jobs 20 years hence.

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    • Mmm

      Company boards and parliament are two examples of jobs which involve decision making that affects society as a whole, and has no physical barriers (like the need to be physically strong as a miner/builder etc). This is why they should be equally represented by all sectors of society.
      To compare these jobs with mining is an unfair argument. To do this would mean that we should also say that men should be equally represented in childcare and nursing (which is another argument in itself).
      And by the way, many many women are prepared to work their butts off, travel and work long hours for these jobs – but why should they have to forego having kids? The men in these positions certainly dont.

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    • Anonymous

      Not to mention all the female dominated professions, where women are paid less for comparable work because they are working in female dominated industries…

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  26. georgieandthree

    If I had a dollar for every man who, without even realising what he was doing, thought he was entitled to having a woman cook and clean for him, or do various other tasks JUST BECAUSE he’s the man and she’s the woman, I’d be rich. That’s a far more widespread problem than Miranda’s load of codswallop. (FWIW, my partner was/is one of those men, and he is not a bad guy. It’s just programmed into them and they have to actively work to overcome it.)
    The only one of Miranda’s examples which is a case of entitlement issues is the young woman suing her high school, and I’m disgusted that she compares that to the woman trying to protect her kids from being taken to a foreign country to live with the father they don’t want to live with, where there may have been physical abuse.

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    • EllyEm

      Oh my. Your point about males expecting certain tasks to be done by the woman is my life, unfortunately. My response that both of us have two hands and two legs, and that I work longer hours, falls on deaf ears.

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    • Lottie

      I wonder who programmed it into them?

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      • georgieandthree

        Is this a trick question? It’s not as simple as one person doing it. My partner’s mum did everything for him, his brother & their dad (despite her working as many hrs and in a physically demanding job) so you could say SHE programmed it into him, but it’s far more complex than that. It’s years upon years of society’s dominant discourse. Like I said, I’m not saying men who have this sense of entitlement are bad people, most of them just don’t realise. Feminism has made great advances but studies and surveys still show that women do the majority (in many cases the vast majority) of housework and child-rearing even in relationships where both partners work approximately equal hours outside the home. And when one parent is working outside the home and the other working at home with the kids, it’s not ok for the at-home parent to still be doing all the housework/child-related duties all evening, night & morning.

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        • Kris2040

          Nah, I think it’s their Mums.

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          • Lulu

            Kris, no, probably not *just* their mothers – also their fathers.

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            • Kris2040

              They get the expectation that Mum will do everything (or their sisters) from Dad, sure, but it’s Mum and the sisters continuing to do stuff that continues it.

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        • Faybian

          I agree, but I think if they’re honest with themselves, they do this because they get away with it. If men like this had to do for themselves, they would (maybe after the house looked like a bomb had hit it at first). My MIL waited hand and foot on the family, all male, so it’s not the first thing my hubby thinks of. He’s pulled up his game, but we’ve been able to compromise. I work part time.

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    • passing through

      If I had a dollar for every man who, without even realising what he was doing, thought he was entitled to having a woman cook and clean for him, or do various other tasks JUST BECAUSE he’s the man and she’s the woman, I’d be rich.

      Well my husband thinks that he’s entitled to have me cook and clean for him, that same as I think that I’m entitled to have him do the gardening, fix the leaky taps and countless other household maintenance jobs, maintain the cars, deal with the garbage, remove spiders from the house, get out of bed to investigate strange noises in the night and remove tight lids from jars.

      These sort of “entitlement” issues work both ways you know. I sometimes think that women need to get over themselves and away from the persecution complex that they have.

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      • georgieandthree

        I’m glad you have a balance in your relationship. Do you think that you actually think you’re entitled to those things (either of you) or have you come to an arrangement that this is the division of labour in your household and, having agreed that, you then each expect the other to keep up your end of the bargain? There’s a difference. In my household, neither of us are very good at gardening so we do a bare minimum, whoever is nearest to the spider or cockroach kills it (he deals with mice as I have a phobia), whoever hears the noise investigates it (I pack as good a punch and a better knee in the balls than he does), the car goes for a service regularly and an automatic car wash when it needs washing (ie virtually no car maintenance to be done – I don’t change tyres or oil but I don’t have a driver’s licence) … so there’s no reason why I should also do all the cooking and cleaning as well as the majority of child-related duties. I’m not saying that I now do, by the way, just that we’ve argued over it ;)

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      • Anon

        Agree! I expect my husband to do all “outside” jobs and I take care of inside. Works for us.

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    • The Meat Man

      22 thumbs up for Georgieandthree who effectively said what Miranda wrote was bad because it said some women are entitled, but If I say men are then yay, that’s fine.

      Can’t anyone see the hypocrisy?

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  27. Dee of Adelaide

    So I don’t think she is way off, just badly put and stupidly made it all about women. Her examples are largely genderless.

    I think we are living in an age of entitlement. The culture in this country of middle class welfare is a fantastic example.

    I think there are examples where women though have developed a sense of entitlement. Having their cake and eating it too type thing. One that always bugs me is how its often the woman’s choice about whether she works after children. So rarely amongst people I know is it a case of, ‘so we have had a baby, how are WE going to do the child raising/making enough money/satisfying careers balance. So often its a case of the man will keep working and the woman will work enough to make ends meet. I feel like women feel entitled to not work as long as they can afford it but blokes don’t have the same choices/options. Its like the financial side isn’t the woman’s responsibility and they are entitled to make wahtever choice they can afford.

    I spend a lot of time telling young women to lower their expectations, because they are waiting for a man on a white horse, with a good job, good money who will marry them, have kids when they want, support them in a career if that is what they want or support them in not working if that is what they want…To be honest I think Miranda is onto something a bit.

    Except the sense of entitlement rarely pans out to be reality. It is often a horrible crash at anywhere from 25 to 40 that all of the things you want in life come from hard graft and compromise.

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    • georgieandthree

      Funny, I feel like men feel entitled to work and develop a career while it’s assumed we will stay home with the child/ren (which is also work). Not in every relationship, of course, but it’s common enough.

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      • The Wounded Bull

        You make it sound like staying home is a punishment that women are forced into. Hardly. I know many a bloke, slaving to the grind, that would look with envy at the work life balance afforded many mums.

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        • georgieandthree

          Before we had kids, my partner and I had approximately equal earning potential. After 3 kids, mine is about a third of his. He didn’t force me to stay home, but the choice was I can go back to work & put the kids in childcare, or I can stay home with them. I didn’t want them in full-time childcare at a young age so I stayed home. Yes I was fortunate to have a choice and not be forced to go back to work and put the kids in childcare when I didn’t want them there. If he’d offered to stay home with them I may have jumped at the chance. NOW he says he wants to, but we’d have trouble living off the income I can currently earn after raising children for 9 years.

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        • MJ

          I think the opposite could be said for many mothers out there as well, they’d much rather work their ass off at a job all day than take care of the kids.
          I know lots of women who work full time, cook, clean, organize and care for the kids while their husbands are bewildered that after working an 8 hour day they are expected to contribute at home too. So they play video games instead.
          It’s an individual thing. Not a gender thing. Some people are lazy, some aren’t.

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        • Lulu

          If it’s so great, what’s stopping them?

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          • Anonymous

            yeah sure, because the man usually has the say in who is the primary care giver. sure

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  28. Sally

    Sigh. Another predictable, woman-hating piece of trolling dressed up as an opinion piece.

    I accept that there will always be people who write this sort of inane rubbish. What I find irritating is when smart people draw attention to it. Same thing happens on Twitter all the time. Intelligent, measured articles get ignored while everyone gets hysterical about the poorly written attention-seeking fluff.

    Just ignore it, Mamamia and it will go away.

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    • Lizi

      1000x like this comment.

      Bet you the same measured and intelligent articles don’t get the same number of hits as this sort of stuff, though. Depressing.

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    • usuallyalurker

      Agree! Very well said. This type of yellow journalism seems designed to “spark heated debate” (read: venting of your opinion in hostile terms) but there are so many wise people here in the comments section who are making an effort to be media savvy, understanding and empathetic – it’s truly inspiring!

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  29. Anonymous

    Miranda Devine writing something offensive, inflammatory, judgemental and arrogant? Noooooo can’t be true…..

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  30. Steph

    The argument that older women place a burden on the health system is a convenient excuse frequently trotted out whenever people are justifying their judgemental opinions (also used to place judgement on other scapegoats eg obese people – women who can’t breastfeed etc) I would imagine that “older” parents who have financial stability, a strong commitment to each other and the perserverence and commitment to undergo fertility treatment are exactly the sort of parents we should be encouraging to have children (funny similar qualities that a lot of gay couples have as well). If economics is your thing – rather than being a “burden” on the health system, statistically they are probably most likely to have children who will contribute positively to the economy.

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    • Rose

      Woah there – you say: “statistically they are probably most likely to have children who will contribute positively to the economy.”
      What statistics? Most likely compared to whom? To parents who had children younger? That is just a ridiculous and ageist statement. Even if you used the word “probably”, it’s ridiculous and insulting to anyone who had a child at a younger age. And it’s possibly incorrect too.

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      • Steph

        I used the word probably because I aknowledge I’m not an expert and because I don’t have statistics – hence “probably” rather than definitely. I don’t think it is ridiculous to suggest that the parenting qualities (strong commitment to having children, financial stability etc) I mentioned produce well-functioning children – it seems commonsense. Also no where did I say that younger parents didn’t have these qualities – plenty do. I was a very young parent and am now an older parent – so I don’t have a bias either way. However, as Devine’s article was attacking older parents and more specifically that they are a burden on society, I was defending them.

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  31. backagain

    Writing an article in judgement is easy. You can make sweeping generalisations, throw in some examples and stats, and tar a whole lot of people with one brush. But would this author like to sit in a room of over-35′s Mum’s to be and tell them they are entitled? Would she wag her finger at them?
    I know a lot of woman over the age of 35 who are trying for babies. My sister in law is one of them and she is struggling so much with so many different emotions. I would never tut tut her and say, well you shouldn’t have been so smug in your twenties hmm! I just give her cuddles and support.

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  32. Lorren

    I think Miranda raises some very interesting points, however, like many below, I believe this isn’t a female problem, but more a first-world-problem of both genders – adults and kids alike.

    The recent ads for “Australia’s Got Talent” had big slogans attached to it “chase your dreams”, “my life has changed forever”,”I was no one before AGT” and so on and so forth. We have people who are famous and recently on the most influential list simply because their lives are filmed daily (cough Kardashians).

    there was an interesting HACK story the other night about the althlete who just missed out on qualifying for the Olympics and how they cope with that reality. Sometimes hard work pays off, sometimes there was just someone else better on the day. What then?

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  33. LucyLoo

    There is no denying that some of the examples listed by Miranda are women exhibiting a pretty horrifying sense of ‘entitlement’. As a regular ‘Real Housewives’ viewer I can testify that most of the rewards and accolades expected (and mostly received) by the women on the show are rarely in conjunction with any kind of personal merit or work ethic. However these women feel entitled to extremities – a record deal (despite any indication of talent), a designer dress or a spin off reality show of their own. To compare this kind of entitlement (which is not gender specific) to – say – our expectation that we can choose when we want to have children (within reason), or who to date, or that we can juggle a career and a family – is dangerous. Frankly we need more women to feel that kind of entitlement. In a society where workplace culture, maternity leave legislation and employer prejudices make it fairly difficult for working mothers, a good dose of entitlement might motivate more of us to speak up when our expectations aren’t met. Furthermore considering 1 in 5 women are experiencing domestic violence in this country – I don’t think we are being picky ENOUGH on the dating scene. There are many many women out there who could use some FEM to remind them that we should all feel entitled to be safe and equal in our relationships.

    I don’t think I would’ve had the same reaction to this article if it were gender neutral – I think it’s reasonably clear that it is not desirable for individuals to go through life expecting to be the most talented, successful, or healthy without any kind of personal expenditure. But I have a huge, BIG problem with her conclusion that this is a sense of entitlement reserved specifically for women and that it is a direct result of the Women’s movement where “women have been told growing up that they are can have it all, do anything, and have unlimited freedom of choice”. It seems Miranda is confusing ‘entitlement’ with developing a collective consciousness.

    I don’t expect to be given a modelling contract anytime soon and I’m not planning on suing my private school – but I am proud to say that I feel entitled to try and have a career with a family if I want to, and to try to have children when it is the right time for me (note I said try), and only date men who treat me with respect. My parent’s instilled that in me – and I think we all deserve these freedoms.

    When I can’t juggle my career with my family because my Husband does 12 hours to every 72 hours of housework I do, or when I am pressured to have children earlier than I would like to, or if I date a man who is violent and aggressive towards me – I am angry – because I feel entitled to have the same choices available to me as men. If that means I have FEM – so be it.

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    • JosieY

      Well said.

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    • Another Anon Guy

      ‘But I have a huge, BIG problem with her conclusion that this is a sense of entitlement reserved specifically for women and that it is a direct result of the Women’s movement where “women have been told growing up that they are can have it all, do anything, and have unlimited freedom of choice”.’

      I actually agree with her premise that post feminism, more girls being told they deserve to have it all while they’re growing up and this has led to more women developing a sense of entitlement.

      This doesn’t mean I hate women. It doesn’t mean I don’t think some men are entitled. It just means that I think that when many girls are told they are special for no reason whatsoever, they will internalise that to think they are better than those around them and deserve more. Who likes entitled people? I certainly don’t.

      I also agree with you that there are some women that could use a larger sense of entitlement (assertiveness) as they are too self sacrificing.

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  34. Anonymous

    I agree that there are many people feeling more entitled then then necessarily should be. I don’t feel that this is specifically a gender based problem, I feel it is a society based problem. As younger kids, especially the past few generations we are told we CAN and SHOULD have it all. The most fulfilling and demanding career, have travelled the world, live in a mansion over looking Sydney Harbour, the best and happiest marriage with a model looking partner, 3.5 perfect children, a designer dog. Oh and you should have all this by the time your 30.

    Sadly this is the picture being painted to people today by society and the media. It is also coming to be what people expect out of life and sadly, it just doesn’t happen to 99.9% of the population.

    This article however seems to be targeted toward women. Specifically if seems to be another article telling women that they’ve become too picky and should simply settle. Can people be too picky? Absolutely. However I don’t think we should be telling women to simply settle. Settle for any partner that comes along? Sadly in todays generation we saw what happened when our mothers chose anyone. Many ended up in divorce, being left with the kids, domestic violence… the list sadly goes on. Did it happen to everyone? No but it happened enough that women are getting pickier now. We don’t just need to grab onto any man that comes along.

    We live in a different time now. We aren’t just “supposed” be be a wife and mother. We are allowed to have options and choices. This is just yet another article trying to almost guilt women into thinking “Oh I better hurry up, grab any guy, run down the aisle and pop out a couple of kids before I’m 30. Maybe if I’m quick, I can still live in the Sydney Harbour mansion…”

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    • K8e.

      i agree it’s not a female-only thing… but i do think there are also a lot of picky people out there who WHINGE about not finding the one etc… when often there’s 5 good guys in their lives they won’t recognise as potentials or that they judge on face value. i agree, don’t settle… but stop expecting everything if your standards are set too high.

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      • Lucy Field

        I’m 39 single and childless. It’s just worked out that way. And I do make informed decisions about who I will and won’t date. At my age it’s hard to meet someone who is interesting and interested in me too. A few women who are already in relationships have told me that my expectations are too high. They are well meaning people but of course they have conveniently forgotten they didn’t settle for someone they didn’t adore. And you just can’t manufacture that feeling…it’s either or it’s not. Devine’s argument is incredibly flawed for the most part, judgemental and out of touch with reality. Tomorrow it will be yesterday’s news – thank goodness.

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  35. Just Saying

    On the dating thing. “Are women being too picky and coming across as arrogant?”

    I’m calling bullshit on this.

    I know too many women in my life that have settled for who ever comes along and haven’t been picky ENOUGH in their relationships.

    It always ends (or continues) in tears. These women know they are selling themselves short but they hear all the same bullshit about not being too picky so they settle for less than satisfactory relationships just so they can be in one.

    If women were pickier, then men might have to lift their game. Oh god forbid!

    Women have been lifting their game for the past 50 years. They are still taking on the main responsibilities of raising families whilst also entering the workforce at an unprecedented rate, bringing money in to the home. Whilst the rate of men taking up the household chores has not caught up with the changes that have taken place.

    Yep, I’ve probably got FEM, and I don’t even care. You can shove it your hate somewhere else Miranda.

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  36. The Meat Man

    Nothing new here.

    Try criticizing women by saying that no matter what women can not take criticism and watch what happens?

    I work for an advertising agency and we refer to the “sheconomy” which basically means women control most of the money and the spending.

    What do you do to someone who has the cash I hear you ask?

    Well, you pander and that’s what we do. We tell them how hard their lives are, how wonderful they are and how much they are entitled to product “A” because they’re “worth it”.

    I don’t know about you, but I’m pretty sure women hear how wonderful their gender is day in and day out. Men hear how bad they are day in day out. This site is no exception. If women have a problem, well, that’s everybody’s issue, if men have one, well, deal with it, man up and stop whining.

    How is this all relevant?

    Most comments here bring men straight into this argument by painting us with the same brush. It seems fine to essentialize male actions as masculine or faulty, but god help you if you try and apply the same line of reasoning albeit wrong to the same people who use it the most.

    There is an entire culture devoted to pandering to women, but I can tell you as a reasonably high level ad exec and someone who knows what most curators of sites like this know and that is there is only one time to put forward negative press on females and that is to generate viral buzz. Otherwise, you just don’t do it, there’s no money in it.

    Tell ‘em how great they are and how stupid their opposite gender is and they’ll eat out of your hand.

    If I go a day without hearing how being a mum is the hardest job in the world, I’ll take stress leave. Never seem to hear much about ice road truckers, coal miners, oil riggers deep sea fishermen or high rise construction workers on mommy blogs.

    Now, take that as you like, but you can deny there is a degree of entitlement all you like, but my job is to feed said entitlement, so I implicitly know it exists, for I’d be unemployed without it.

    Men can be a lot of bad things and there are ten thousand blogs for every facet, but Tosh.0 makes a great point when he says: “Being an ugly woman is like being a man. You’re gonna have to work. Yep.”

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    • MJ

      Unattractive men are still valued far higher than unattractive women.

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    • speccygirl

      I think a lot of the readers here are saying either gender can have a sense of entitlement…

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    • anon

      Women spend the money in the household because the RESPONSIBILITY of feeding, clothing and organising a family still falls primarily on the shoulders of women in the vast majority of cases.

      If regularly spending money in this manner is considered indulgent then I must have missed the boat on how awesome grocery shopping is, taking the kids to get new shoes fitted or deciding which jocks my husband would consider the most comfy on his meat and vege.

      What a massive load of shit.

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      • The Meat Man

        @ anon

        Yep, some people could turn women spending more money into a chore, but I think the premise of the “mall” might have something to say about that, maybe you should go into one and watch the “responsibility” . Funnily enough a lot of our clients sell luxury products and big surprise who buys them for themselves.

        @Just saying

        Yep there aren’t many women in our agency but there are some. Maybe it doesn’t appeal to them, but they certainly are not discriminated against, they are in demand. We don’t sit around smoking cigars and drinking remy martin cru either, funnily enough.

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        • Just Saying

          @Meat Man – I work in an agency as well. I’m in digital but its a pretty similar environment. I am one of the only girls in the office and I hear you on the women are in demand thing. If I wanted to act like a total diva bitch, i totally could and not ever be fired because having a woman who enjoys working in a male dominated industry is quite rare and they are desperate to keep me happy.

          Does this make me feel entitled? No. I actually want true equality between sexes. Until my male colleagues feel comfortable to ask to go part time because they want to spend more time with their family then I will know that the balance is out of whack. They don’t love their families any less because they are men. They just don’t talk about it as much as women do.

          You know its such a shame you feel so bitter about the mum thing and having to always take women’s feelings in to consideration…..It sounds like it would get quite exhausting.

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        • anon

          So some women like to shop, so what? All you’ve proven is that women spend money in a different manner to men, not that women are the only gender to spend money.

          Some men spend their money on the golf course, in the pub, at the races, at the hardware store etc.

          So you work for clients who sell ‘stuff’ that women buy. Men indulge just as much, just not in a different manner.

          You arguments are weak at best (even as a reasonably high leve ad exec).

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          • The Meat Man

            @ Anon to quote:

            “So some women like to shop, so what? All you’ve proven is that women spend money in a different manner to men, not that women are the only gender to spend money.”

            No, women spend MORE, that’s my point. Not differently. If there is a wage gap, why do women spend 70% more on luxury items than men?

            I know this for an industry fact and Just saying would know this too, because target markets are fairly axiomatic.

            Take out beer, pies, sport and auto shops and the rest are completely dominated by one gender and we’re not talking staples, we’re talking non-essentials.

            I could argue this all day with you, but you aint gonna change your mind, but might I suggest you spend more than 5 minutes in any mall in Australia with a pen and pad and an objective eye.

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            • Anonymous

              yep, they control most of the discretionary spend, have much better work life flexibility, have disproportionate power re parenting and family planning, win out big time when relationships fail, live 5 years longer, are victims of violence less than men yet get all of the efforts to eliminate violence directed at them alone, suffer far fewer deaths at work, have much more lenient sentencing, commit suicide at a rate only 1/6th that of men, have by far the bulk of gender specific health care and research directed at them…..

              yet they still manage to make themselves believe they get the bad end of the stick in Australia. The feminist victim mentality drives much in the world, including government in Australia, and this site.

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            • Laws for Clouds

              Can I ask what a luxury item is?

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            • Anonymous

              Oh, and I forgot to add, women get their own minister in government to look out for the massive disadvantage I just outlined. They also have affirmitive action to get equal representation in the jobs they deem worthy of them (like company boards, without the same noise about the male skew in dirty, dangerous jobs that women dont want a bar of), oh, and and the clincher, there is an entire movement (that is supposed to be about equality) that is called feminism, a gender specific term that only considers disadvantage when it falls on one side of the gender divide.

              Yep, girls you have never had it so bad in Australia have you.

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            • Faybian

              Anonymous, how about you put the complete suicide stats up? Yes, men are far more successful at suicide than women, but women attempt suicide more than men. Before you inevitably go on about “attention seeking”, yes that’s what it’s called and is taken seriously. The thing with the “cries for help” is that often there is an actual mental illness behind them and they can be “practice runs”.
              Then there’s your men suffer more violence. Yes they do, but quite often it’s at the hands of other men. There is unreported domestic violence by women to men, but what does get reported shows that it’s usually not as severe physically, or as likely to result in death. Domestic violence is still rotten either way, but don’t make out it’s a woman’s world either.

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    • Just Saying

      So you are a “reasonably high level ad exec” huh?

      Out of interest, at your level, is the ratio of women to men in your company 50/50?

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    • Faybian

      For every woman that overspends/overindulges on clothes, hair, shoes etc, there is a man that over spends at the pub/TAB or buys the newest and best TV, motorbike, playstation, jet ski etc. These are wild spending generalisations, but you get the drift. As for how wonderful we are, yes just like we get “slut” yelled out of cars at us or when we turn someone down at a nite club. THen there’s websites like the punch. Some of the comments there would make your hair curl. Your occupation may have twisted your views I believe.

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    • Another Anon Guy

      “I work for an advertising agency and we refer to the “sheconomy” which basically means women control most of the money and the spending.

      There is an entire culture devoted to pandering to women, but I can tell you as a reasonably high level ad exec and someone who knows what most curators of sites like this know and that is there is only one time to put forward negative press on females and that is to generate viral buzz. Otherwise, you just don’t do it, there’s no money in it.”

      Thanks for confirming what I’ve long suspected. The media fuels cultural memes and societal values so if the media is a commercial enterprise funded by advertising and thus has a vested interest in never alienating women as a group, then the media’s bias won’t change until gender spending changes.

      tldr; Men will be sledged until women spend less.

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  37. MJ

    This is obviously quite a silly article. Designed to piss off women, and get all those men who think the same thing about all women nodding in agreement.

    I think we’re all just people.. some of us are assholes, most of us are nice.

    There is no denying that there is still inequity between the sexes in many areas, but hopefully over the next few generations everything will continue to balance out so we all get a fair deal regardless of gender.

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    • Anonymous

      Thank you for summing up my thoughts and putting them much more articulately and succinctly than I am able to do this evening!

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    • Diana The Huntress

      Completely agree. But I guess saying, “some people are jerks, regardless of what bits they have” doesn’t sell papers.

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      • Diana The Huntress

        Miranda Devine, just like her arch-nemesisisisis Catherine Deveny was, is just a paid troll. They are paid to write opinion pieces to start some shit. And they usually succeed.

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        • Anon

          And guess what? It works. Sad.

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  38. Another Anon Guy

    I will preface by saying there are many men who are overentitled.

    In many ways I agree with MD that some women definitely have an inflated sense of entitlement. Narcisism is on the rise and I do believe its linked to a post feminist world where girls were told they were special just for being who they are and they can have it all. Boys in general are told they are nothing special and if they want something they’re going to have to work for it.

    Many women are going to take MD’s words as a personal attack regardless of whether she’s right or not.

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    • Faybian

      I think you do a great disservice to mothers of boys! Who tells their son he’s nothing special?

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      • Another Anon Guy

        Boys are told they are loved, but that they’ll still need to get their hands dirty as they will never get everything handed to them on a silver platter. This advice stands them in good stead further on in life.

        Loved=Good
        Special Snowflake=Not Good

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        • Faybian

          Again, a massive generalisation. What makes you think that girls don’t get told similar?
          Both genders get told crap as well as good parental advice.

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  39. essessesse

    Miranda Divine rarely says anything interesting or substantial. This is no exception.

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    • Bradley

      Oh, come on ! You reached that decision before even reading past “Miranda Devine”. I at least waited until I’d finished reading the article before deciding that I disagreed with MD because I felt that this malady was applicable to both genders.

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      • essessesse

        Thanks for reading my mind, Bradley. I think you read someone elses though.

        I read it. I don’t agree with her.

        Look into my mind, you know it’s true!

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      • Catherine

        yes Bradley there are men and women suffering frm entitlement syndrome. e.g. a male friend of mine who is 50, and balding with a pot belly thinks he is entitled to a woman of child bearing age who looks like Julia Roberts LOL. Guess what? he is still single

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        • Bradley

          For a moment I thought that you may have been describing me ! But then I got to the pot belly and Julia Roberts bit. :)

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  40. Catherine

    Miranda is absolutely right that women have FEM. e.g. the women doing “”selective reduction”" of pregnancies for lifestyle reasons, women poaching other women’s husbands because they “”deserve to be happy”" despite it being at other women’s expense.

    Some women are way too demanding about what they want in a partner.
    A friend of mine was telling me about a nice guy, blah blah but she wouldnt date him because he was only teacher and coulnt give her the lavish lifestyle she wanted. Now her assets stand at zero whereas he owns his own place. If a guy said he didnt want to date her because she had no assets she would be pissed off, FEM

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    • kate

      Catherine, please don’t place blame for cheating spouses on the people who “poach” them. It absolves the married person of responsibility which is solely theirs.

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      • Anonymous

        so kate, a person that sets out to seduce a married person has zero responsibility in the end outcome?

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        • kate

          Yes. ‘Responsible’ implies they had a burden of obligation, reliability or dependability which they did not perform. A person who sets out to seduce a married person is therefore not morally, socially or legally responsible for the outcome. That person might not be the nicest person on the block, but they are free from responsibility, as they had made no promises.

          The cheating spouse made a promise to be faithful for the term of the marriage. He/she then made a choice to break that promise. Other factors may have contributed, of course, but responsibility lies solely in the decision of the married spouse.

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          • Diana The Huntress

            I’m with Kate on this one. While I do think it’s unethical to actively pursue someone you know to be in a relationship, the responsibility for the fidelity or downfall is solely on the attached party. No-one is stolen who doesn’t let it happen.

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      • Another Jo

        Don’t agree. Both parties are responsible in that situation.

        They are both morally responsible. I think to say otherwise is just condoning bad behaviour.

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        • kate

          It’s not condoning the behaviour to refuse to assign responsibility. The behaviour is not ideal, of course it’s not. Morally speaking, encouraging a married person into an affair is neither good nor righteous. But responsibility is an entirely different thing. Responsibility is about duty and obligation.

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          • Another Jo

            Well we will just have to disagree then.

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      • catherine

        Kate, I would say the cheating spouse and the other woman are both culpable.

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      • anon

        I expect more of women, they’re not supposed to treat other women like that.

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  41. Steph

    Women can’t win – if they rushed in and had children before they were financially independent they would be accused of being irresponsible, likewise if they had a child with a man they weren’t absolutely sure about and the relationship broke up. For those women who want children – it’s not an entitlement, but the most basic human need. We should be supporting them not judging them.

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    • Catherine

      There is a difference between needs and wants
      One needs air and water to live.
      One does not need children to live.

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  42. Dee

    Miranda, that you think hospital births are automatically safer than home-births and then judge the women who opt for them means that to me, you have zero credibility as clearly you make large sweeping generalisations on things about which you know little.

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    • Kel

      Well said.

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    • Jenna

      Don’t jump on me with this – but if it’s a safe birth not requiring intervention, then it doesn’t matter where it is. But if something goes wrong or it’s a higher risk bith then a hospital is safer. You don’t know if something is going to go wrong until it does. Vis a vis, on a risk management basis, I would say that a hospital IS a safer place to give birth. How is it not?

      I’m not trying to be inflammatory, but to me it’s a bit like saying that fishing with a life vest on is safer than fishing without. You might not need the life vest either way, but technically and logically it’s safer.

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      • Dee

        Jenna you raise a really valid argument and if it weren’t for the overly interventionist philosophy of our hospital system, I’d agree entirely. “If it’s a safe birth not requiring intervention” doesn’t happen all that often in the medical system (trust me, I work in it!). So often, the unnecessary interventions in an otherwise low-risk labour are what lead to the complications that make birth less safe! Example: last week a woman’s water’s broke. She was not yet in labour. She had zero risk factors. Obstetrician was going away for the weekend so wanted her induced immediately. Woman agrees thinking “doctor must know best”. The drugs of the induction were full-on, contractions way more intense than would have otherwise been, leads to woman needing an epidural. Epidural causes rebound maternal hyptension (not an uncommon side effect) which in turn lead to fetal distress. Epi meant woman couldn’t feel to push baby out, out come the forceps. Large episiotomy ensues (followed by post partum haemorrhage). Baby has sore head, won’t feed. Ends up jaundiced. End up in special care nursery. Was this safer than if they woman had declined the induction and had a home birth with a qualified midwife (who is trained to recognise risk and would have transferred to hospital if safety was being compromised)? No it wasn’t. And this scenario, or close to it, is being replicated in birth suites all over the country on a daily basis. Home birth is becoming THE safest option for healthy, low-risk women in the presence of a skilled birth attendant.

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        • Anonymous

          And I too would much rather wear a life jacket when fishing than not. But I also would not like there to be people rocking my boat, even drilling little holes in the bottom to cause it to leak, and then push me over-board meaning that I definitely need that life jacket now. I’d rather wear my life-jacket, fish in a calm river, in a sturdy and dependable boat. That’s what it’s like having a home birth if you are a healthy low risk woman and you are attended by a skilled midwife. Come fishing with me, you’ll never look back! :)

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        • Anonymous

          Something like this happened to me. I was induced and the contractions came one on top of another, no break in between. The baby became distressed and had to be reefed out with forceps. There was meconium passed because he was distressed, it could have ended much worse than it did. It was really only good luck that he was ok. With my second baby I stayed home ’til the last minute and just made it there in time and everything went well, no problems at all. I don’t trust hospitals any more. In an emergency I agree that it’s the place to be but otherwise I think you’re better off at home.

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          • Dee

            I’m sorry that your first birth experience was so traumatic for you and your baby. Sounds like you made a wise choice with number 2 :)

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        • Melsie

          Unfortunately, that example is a far too common scenario in our hospitals

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        • Anon

          Not a bad argument Dee. What you fail to mention is the risk of the woman not going into labour, infection setting in and both mother and baby not surviving the birth.

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          • Dee

            Research shows the VAST majority of women will spontaneously go into labour within 24-48 hours of their waters breaking. By taking some simple precautions & taking their temp regularly to detect any sign of infection, women can hugely reduce the likelihood of “infection setting in”. And prophylactic antibiotics are way less likely to set off the cascade of intervention than an induction. What you fail to mention re “mother & baby not surviving birth” is the risks of induction; uterine hyper stimulation, uterine rupture, post-partum haemorrhage, operative delivery, etc etc. induction should only be done when the risk to the fetus is greater staying in utero than the risks mother & baby face with induction. And sadly that’s not what is happening across this country a lot of the time.

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            • Alice

              It’s true that babies become extremely vulnerable to infection once the waters break, and inducing labour or at the very least admitting and closely monitoring the mother would be the recommended course of action in the scenario you mentioned.

              I get your point – that sometimes there is overintervention – but often it’s necessary for reasons that aren’t obvious to a layperson. It doesn’t mean that the medical course is going to be bump free – but it can avoid worse outcomes.

              If the doctors didn’t induced and the baby was delivered stillborn due to infection then the hospital/doctor would be sued for negligence. Sometimes hospitals just can’t win!!

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        • Kris2040

          Intervention free births don’t happen all that often? I’m sure plenty of midwives would take issue with that!

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          • Dee

            Many midwives work tirelessly to minimise intervention within the hospital system for birthing women, but in reality, intervention-free birth are increasingly rare. The stats prove this.

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            • Dee

              Alice, the 3 Centres Guidelines do not recommend routine induction for pre-labour rupture of membranes in the absence of GBS infection in a term, healthy woman with a low-risk pregnancy. In the situation I cited, there was NO indication for immediate induction other than that the fact that her obstetrician was going away for the weekend. You are right though, hospitals can’t win. Litigation is the single biggest driver behind our over-intervention of birth. Society has itself to blame. Interestingly, you could argue that if an induction went wrong (and they do at times), a woman could sue for being induced without adequate reason or adequate explanation of the associated risks. Who knows what the answer is to this dilemma :(

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  43. gypsy

    This woman has no idea.

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  44. Disagree

    I have to say that I would not listen to a word that woman says, she exists only to cause trouble and controversy. I disagree with Miranda Devine on this and everything else I have ever read of hers. I sincerely hope that she does not gain any more hits or readers from this post.

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  45. speccygirl

    Don’t agree at all – I would have love to have had a child before I was 35 – but I only got married at 35 and we have spend almost our entire marriage (the past 3 years) trying to conceive- not everyone has a choice… Now I’m pregnant at almost 39 years old I am getting very tired of reading articles about ‘selfish’ or obese older mothers…

    Some people do have a sense of entitlement (I agree about the girl who is suing her former private school after she failed to get into the law school of her choice). However, this is more to do with a person than their individual upbringing and various other things – it can apply to anyone male or female.

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    • Bananna

      All the best with becoming a mum!

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      • speccygirl

        Thanks :) Just getting fed up with those articles!

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    • Steph

      Congratulations Speccygirl on bub – what the articles don’t tell you, that while there are some increased risks, by far the vast majority of mothers over 35 go on to have healthy pregnancies and babies (but that’s not very interesting!)

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      • speccygirl

        Thanks! I am very aware of the increased risks and it is concerning (I lost a pregnancy in 2010)…. I guess that the articles mainly seem to target the mothers – rather than recognising that both men and women need to be educated on the risks of having a child after 35…

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    • Vegas

      Hey Speccy – don’t stress about it. I got married at 36, conceived at 38 but lost the pregnancy, and became a mum for the first time at 40. My sweetie just turned 3. I say to the young girls that I know, if you know you want kids, and you’ve found the people you want to have them with, don’t wait too long. I’m well aware that I have been amazingly lucky. I don’t feel that I was selfish, it’s just the way my life worked out. And, while I may be physically a bit more clapped out and find it harder to recover from those sleepless nights, I think I am a gazillion times more patient and grateful and emotionally resilient than I would have been as a mother in my 20s. Everyone’s journey is different, just enjoy the ride. And all the very best with your baby xxxx you’re in for so much joy and amazement!

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      • speccygirl

        I agree – I would have been a shocking mother in my 20s and early 30s!!!

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      • Melsie

        Same here! I had our first girl at 40 and our second at 42 (she’s just turned five months old). I also feel lucky at the way things turned out for me and agree too that everyone’s journey is different, how boring it would be if we were all the same.
        Enjoy your pregnancy and motherhood Speccygirl, and ignore those stupid articles!

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  46. kate

    This argument is completely illogical, and the examples provided are easily pulled apart. 18-year-old girl suing her school? That’s FEM for sure. 18-year-old boy suing his school? That’s just an entitled person.

    Entitled people, surprise surprise, come from both genders. As do rude people, considerate people, arrogant people and witty people. To describe an entitled woman as displaying FEM makes out as though entitlement is a uniquely female problem, as though men could never be accused of entitlement! This is truly ridiculous. To avoid the heavily misogynistic tones this article most certainly contains, no two ways about it, Devine’s argument should have been a critique of all entitled people who value “self esteem and empowerment above fairness and common sense”. Sweeping generalisations help no-one.

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  47. Alice

    I agree with Bradley – Personal Entitlement Mentality is definitely a condition…and not one limited to gender! Yes some women can be pains in the arse with an entitlement complex – but so can men. So can people over 35 and (amazingly!) people under 35. It’s a personality flaw, not a gender flaw.

    I’m not familiar with Devine’s work – but maybe that’s not too surprising given the obvious flaws in her rational and evidence. Silly and lazy, Devine.

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    • Bradley

      I read Devine regularly. I like to expose myself to a variety of opinions by different writers. Sometimes I agree with what one writes about particular issues, sometimes I don’t.

      Let’s say that I’m all for everyone “thinking outside of their own box” as often as they can. No columnist/writer/opinionater is always 100% wrong, nor are they always 100% right.

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      • Alice

        Unless a writer is totally sensationalist (Samantha Brick anyone?), then I think it’s likely that a well researched, well evidenced writer if going to be more successful and widely read than one who comes up with half baked theories and can’t support them with good evidence.

        I’m all for thinking outside the box as well, and I love having my views challenged and broadened. But the arguments need to be backed up with strong thinking, research and evidence and a writer publishing an article without those is (in my eyes) just being silly and lazy.

        This particular view from Devine is very generalised, with obvious holes in the logic and examples. As I said, I haven’t read her other stuff (which might be pure brilliance) – but I stand by my comments about this particular view from her.

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        • Bradley

          As I say, sometimes I agree and sometimes I don’t, and in this instance I don’t.

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          • Alice

            Hmm I don’t think I really understand the purpose of your first reply? Not being facetious – it just seems a bit like a criticism for no real reason or something.

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            • Bradley

              I apologise if you take my first comment as criticism. My intention was to indicate that I go out of my way to read as widely as possible. There are some writers that I have to really force myself to read, but I never see any of them as completely right or wrong all of the time.

              If anything, I’d encourage you to read a few more examples of what Miranda Devine writes. You may think that she’s a genius or just total crap. Again, I sorry that you saw my first comment as criticism.

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            • Alice

              As I said – I wasn’t commenting on all her writing, I was commenting on this particular argument she’s making, which I think is a poor one. Hopefully her other arguments are stronger! I’ll have to look out for them :)

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      • I've gotta say it!

        Bradley, I’m not trying to be rude, but I do want to make a comment. I hope you don’t take it as an insult, but just as constructive feedback.

        So many of your comments seem to be for the purpose of hosing people down – even when they haven’t said anything inflammatory. “Prejudice isn’t nice Odette”, “Who gets the pleasure of Lulu?”, “calling someone an ignoramus is rude”, this comment – all of them seem to be pulling people into line for daring to have even the vaguest of opinions or criticisms.

        It makes the person feel bad and it stops people from being able to voice an opinion. If someone’s being really offensive and swearing etc then alert the monitor or speak up then – but this constant policing of any kind of voice is irritating and oppressive.

        You might be attempting to create a more positive vibe by slapping people on the wrist when they say something vaguely negative – but in fact it’s you that’s creating the negative, unsupportive environment.

        I’m sure you’re a good person and I’m not trying to have a public go at you, but it’s been increasingly getting to me of the last few weeks. Maybe it’s not always necessary to tell people off, you know? Sometimes it’s okay for people to say they don’t like someone’s opinion, that they think someone’s argument is silly, etc. It’s an opinion forum – and it’d be one heck of a boring dinner party if you got told off and tut tutted every time you called someone (who’s articule you’re discussing at the dinner table, not a fellow party guest) an ignoramous.

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  48. Selfish people exist irregardless of gender. I’m sure people agreeing with Miranda consider themselves unselfish though, and Miranda herself most likely thinks she is a shining beacon of unselfishness.

    I also can’t believe being choosy in dating is a sign of selfishness. Since when do you owe other people your love and body, and would be seen as selfish for being selective when choosing a mate?

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    • Mia

      I think feeling entitled is different to being selfish…..

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      • Bradley

        I’ve certainly met many very selfish people who have strong senses of entitlement.

        I’d go as far to say that you can’t be selfish without feeling a strong sense of entitlement. Or should I say that those with a strong sense of personal entitlement are quite likely rather selfish ?

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        • I think you smelt what I’m stepping in!

          My experiences have been much the same.

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        • Emma

          I beg to differ on that point. I am not a selfish person by nature and try to do as much as I can for others. However, I have found with more experience behind me, that I am entitled to ask for things and occasionally demand things ( in a nice way). I see your point Bradley, though I think there may be two broad senses of entitlement:

          1. The one mentioned in the article, where one wants for one’s sake. The type of entitlement that really does few people any good, particularly the person who wants it.

          2. The sense that you are entitled to do things you enjoy, spend time doing what you want, and succeed in life, but not at the expense of others, personal or work relationships etc.

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      • kate

        Hmm, interesting thought Mia. How would you define the difference? Devine relates entitlement to placing one’s own wants above those around them (“self-esteem and empowerment above fairness and common sense”).

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      • Hannahnah

        Sounds like selfishness and entitlement go hand in hand, think OP assumes they are the same thing? Plus FSM doesn’t sound as good ;)

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      • Hi Mia!
        To clarify, I really equate feeling entitled to being selfish, they are very similar traits in my eyes. I kind of got stuck on the word selfish, when I should have used entitled more.

        My point still stands though, that yes, you should be able to hold out for the partner right for you and not be labelled entitled. Heck, there may be less divorces in the future because women finally are empowered enough not to settle.

        A sense of undeserved entitlement is in no way limited to women either. That’s a huge cop-out for women, and equally doesn’t acknowledge the entitled men I’ve come by where the common belief is “I’m a white male in a position of privilege, therefore I deserve ____”. Again, not all men, but some.

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  49. Bradley

    Think that this malady should be referred to as ” HEM “….Human Entitlement Mentality. Or should this be ” PEM “…..Personal Entitlement Mentality ?

    You know the type. Here I am….I deserve it all !

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    • Another Jo

      I agree!

      Well about the Human Entitlement Mentality… I can’t comment on you personally Bradley :D

      Why is it solely about women? What about the men? I think gender should be irrelevant in this discussion.

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      • Bradley

        Jo…you’ll find that I’m generally extremely humble ! :)

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  50. cos

    Not understanding this article at all.

    In my social group (married women in the 30′s with small children) we all feel like we are losing. We are overworked and frazzled. In this day and age we still feel the need to put ourselves last often skipping meals because we are too busy making sure everyone else is fed (including pets). We are constantly in the juggle to keep husband, friends, children, extended family and employers happy that we’ve all admitted we’ve forgotten what makes us happy.

    For the first time last weekend I stayed home for three days while my husband took the kids away to visit his parents. I used the time to exercise, nap, catch up with friends and generally try to feel human for a short time. I cannot tell you the amount of negative feedback I had received from people when they found out I was home alone for three days. Words such as ‘indulgent’ were used and some suggested that what I had done was ‘not acceptable’.

    Maybe I live in a parellel universe but the women I know think self indulgence is being able to drink a hot cup of tea before it goes completely cold.

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    • megalasaurus

      I hope you told whoever said that to you exactly where to shove it…

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      • Anonymous

        would you believe it was my own mother who said it!! (“leaving your family for three days is not really appropriate”).

        The woman who raised three children alone (my father thought parenting involved providing sperm and living under the same roof as his offspring and nothing more). She worked full time and all I remember of my childhood with her was a frazzled, cranky, bitter and time-poor mother.

        I love her dearly but she does not know how to care for herself and so doesn’t understand the need for other women to want to.

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        • Elspeth

          You need to put your own oxygen mask on first before you can put it onto someone else.

          Sometimes a bit of time to take care of yourself will be positive for your kids. No one benefits from you being a martyr. I think what you did was great – not at all the same thing as having an entitlement complex (and I know several people of both genders who act this way!).

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    • Sam

      Not at all indulgent! Well done for actually using that time to do some stuff for yourself instead of spending it cleaning the house, running errands etc.

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    • Bec

      Ahh 3 days off! Definitely NOT selfish.
      If it was the male doing it, I doubt people would call him selfish, it would be a completely different reaction! So why are mums and females still being held to different standards?!
      Good on you for taking 3 days (probably the only 3 days you have had off since your first child!)
      And just think- the people with negative comments probably get holiday entitlements from work, salary packaging, a lovely 4 weeks off per year… I wouldn’t listen too closely to hypocritical blabber :)

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    • Vegas

      I think self indulgent is being able to do a poo without a toddler on your lap….. ahhhh, I miss privacy….

      And you should hear some of the comments I’ve been getting when I tell people I’m going to walk to Kokoda track for 2 weeks in August and my child will be left with her father…. oh my God, how can he possibly be expected to look after his own child for a fortnight????!!!

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