by NATALIA JASTRZAB
This is the story of two girls, one pub and a whole lot of harassment.
More specifically, it’s the story of how my best friend and I went to an inner-city Melbourne pub to watch a band with a ridiculously good-looking lead singer and have a bit of a boogie.
It’s the story of how we ended up storming out an hour later because of the physical and verbal abuse we were copping.
Let me elaborate. I’ll set the scene for you. Two twenty-one year old girls, wearing flat shoes and I can’t remember what else, standing on the dance floor of the pub, getting excited every time a new song started playing and it turned out to be better than the last one.
There was not much of a female population in the pub, so we were getting a lot of – unwanted – attention. At first, it was just the casual grope as someone walked past. My bottom was the preferred groping target. Lovely.
Then guys started deciding that it wasn’t okay for me to dance with my friend anymore. That I needed to dance with them instead. Cue The Grab, where they snatch you away or snake an arm around you so that you’re out of your circle and into their arms.
No thank you. I’m having a great time where I am. I have a boyfriend. He’s not here right now, but he’s big and strong and could totally fight you. But the excuses weren’t good enough.
It got to the stage where some guy was so offended by my brush-offs that he decided the best way to get my attention was to continually launch himself at me – with force – until I turned around and started talking to him.
I turned around after he’d purposely run into me for the seventh time in less than a minute. I shoved him away and asked him to mind his personal space. The music was loud, so I might have mimed out a “no-trespassing area” around me.
He called me a bitch. I could still hear that over the music.
There was a security guard watching the entire thing. He didn’t care.
There were, however, two guys who did care. They stood next to us, acting like pseudo-boyfriends, and whenever someone approached me, I pointed to the tallest of the two and mouthed “boyfriend”!
As nice as those boys were, our night was already spoiled. We hugged them and headed home, disappointed with how the evening had turned out.
The most disappointment came afterwards, when I was recounting the evening to two male friends.
Friend One: “What did you expect? You were in a pub.”
Friend Two: “What did you expect? You were in [insert apparently dodgy Melbourne suburb here].”
Oh, of course! I shouldn’t have yelled at that boy who called me a bitch after I didn’t appreciate his best elbowing-in-back-efforts. I should have said, “I’m sorry – I forgot I’m in a pub. Do you want me to stand a bit closer so your aim can be better? That way, you can jab me in the eyes!”
I shouldn’t have been offended by the security guard ignoring me. I should have said, “I’m sorry – I forgot I’m in a postcode where it’s totally okay for everyone to grope me. My bad!”
Wait. Back up.
The fact that I was in a pub doesn’t automatically cancel out my right to enjoy my evening without being harassed. The fact that I was in a particular suburb is also completely irrelevant.
But it seems my personal views are not in line with those of Gary Johnston. Gary is head of the Bulldogs’ major sponsor, Jaycar Electronics. He went on radio 2GB on Wednesday to speak about the inappropriate comments directed at channel 9 reporter, Jayne Azzopardi, by unnamed players during the team’s Mad Monday celebrations.
Gary defended the player’s right to privacy, saying: “If a woman walks into some bars in Sydney, she will be ogled. She will be treated as an object and that’s the way it is. She doesn’t have to walk into those bars.”
Top stuff. Let’s have a golf clap for Gary.
Model and boxer Lauryn Eagle has now made a statement supporting him, telling Triple M radio: ”It’s the truth and you can’t hide from it, whether you like it or not, women expect it, it’s an expected situation.”
“You walk into a bar, men look at you, they stare at you, that’s just the way it is and that’s the truth.
“What they didn’t record was he did apologise…the comments were definitely not appropriate, but the reality is, looking and ogling, definitely (happens).”
So – in conclusion – women in bars and pubs will be treated like objects and should expect to be ogled. And – in my situation anyway – we all know what the ogling leads to. Touching. Being hassled. And – let’s call it what it is – being harassed.
That will happen regularly. And that’s cool.
Did I get that right, Lauryn and Gary?
Over to you all. What did you think of the comments made by Lauryn and Gary? Have you been treated badly in a pub or bar? Do you think there’s some kind of justification behind the behaviour?










Comments
152 Comments so far
If a guy won’t respect your right to not be disturbed then they obviously think that their right to talk to you is more important than your rights and wants, and who wants a guy who won’t respect what you want?! If a guy wont take ‘no’ for an answer in a non-sexual situation, then how do you know he will take ‘no’ for an answer in a sexual situation.
What is really sad are the responses from your male friends, who would probably stand by and watch their mates or strangers creep on women and would turn a blind eye. If good men don’t see the problem then how the hell are we going to get the bad ones to change?
So many of my friends will use the ‘I have a boyfriend’ line when they’re out, even if they don’t have a boyfriend because it seems like the only viable reason to rebuff any unwanted attention. It’s almost like just wanting to hang out by yourself or with friends is unacceptable.
And to all the people who are saying, ‘it’s the truth, it happens all the time we just need to accept it,’ this is so unsatisfactory. Apply the same principle to world hunger, poverty, unemployment. They’re all bad things that happen…so we should turn a blind eye and not try and change them?? Why is this any different when it comes to the safety of women? Think about, it’s not just happening to the young girls clubbing, it’s happening to your mothers, sisters, daughters, and girlfriends.
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JLB you and I think alike! I remember when I was 19, I am now in my 50’s, it was the fashion for (some) guys to “goose” women. It was like a really inappropriate grope where the offender would put his fingers between your legs from behind, and then act innocent when you turned around. You could always tell who it was by the way his friends would be laughing while he was not. One night, totally sick of it, I pretended to welcome the advance, sidled up next to him and asked him for a sip of his drink. The idiot obliged and promptly wore it. His mates thought that was even funnier. Another time, I turned around and just slapped the arsehole across the face. These days you have to be careful as guys are even lower than they used to be, and will just punch back or glass you.
And to respond to the comment about how some girls expect it, that is so sadly true. Some women are so low in self esteem and respect that they actually base their measure of self worth on the attention they get from men. Lauryn Eagle; who is a boxer?wtf and model! of course; says that women expect it. Looking at her profession, I would expect her to have that attitude. She probably expects it, gets it and goes home feeling worthy and loved. “The guys ogled me tonight so, I’ve still got it, everything is good in my world.” I feel sorry for women like that, but they certainly make it hard for the rest of us who just want to enjoy a band without the “boyfriend who could so fight you”.
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If the situation was reversed….?????…..a drunk girl throwing herself at a group of guys. Groping grabbing. The word would be desperate, not harrasment.
Double standards are so sad and old fashioned
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That doesn’t take into account that the reverse is far less physically intimidating. It’s harassment not only because it’s unwanted, but because aggressive unwanted attention from a man can actually be really scary.
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I kinda disagree.
I’m not really overly tall (5’9″), but I”m a “lady tradie”. I’ve very rarely felt physically intimidated by a man – unless he is physically HUGE (like my hubby, 6’4″ and 120kg… luckily a big marshmallow though
If I decided to be a complete jerk and grope and harass a guy who was smaller than me (there are a lot of guys who are), I can imagine he would be pretty scared.
If I wanted to harass a guy who was bigger than me, would he possibly be scared of “fighting back”, because it would look really bad if I managed to get hurt, even if I was the original aggressor and it was only self defence?
And if a group of women decided to go out and harass guys (a poster above pointed out that this happens on Hen nights – frequently. I’ve seen it happen myself with groups of drunken women) then a guy alone could feel pretty cornered and intimidated.
I think you’re buying too hard into stereotypes. Look around you, not all women are tiny fragile creatures and not all are men big strong brutes.
And the physical size of a person doesn’t count in a pack situation anyway.
Aggressive, unwanted behaviour is not acceptable no matter who is doing it to whom.
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I’m one of those girls who doesn’t like to be groped, grabbed and touched by strange men at a pub or club when I’m trying to have fun. This is why I don’t really go out much, haha. And yes, I expect this sort of behaviour from most of the guys at clubs because that’s what they’re there for: to get a girl. It’s a sad truth and I wish most of them would take a hint and eff off but that won’t be happening anytime soon.
But I have discovered an alternative: gay bars. The guys there are all gay and most of the girls are straight, so no one will bother you. I had heaps of fun last time I went because I wasn’t pawed at and could enjoy the night out with my friends.
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Agreed! I do love a gay bar.
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yeah, but the problem is that gay bars dont want to be full of straight women. A few gay pubs in Melb even applied for the right to exclude straight women, and they were granted permission.
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Lucky that I live in Sydney then! I do get the problem with gay bars not wanting straight women attending, but the one I’ve been to had about 90% men and 10% women. I don’t think all of them should close their doors to straight people because I wouldn’t have any place to go to that I’d enjoy myself as much in!
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For the same reason men don’t wear board shorts and thongs to work, it’s not appropriate business dress.
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What?
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It makes my mind boggle! Not least of all because it is not ok – ever but also this whole idea of “that’s just the way it is, so put up with it and stop complaining”.
Ah – no!
That’s not how most of us chose to live our lives. If something is inappropriate, sexist, racist, a form of harassment or just plain wrong we have to make a stand and say :enough is enough”.
That’s why there is a big back lash against Alan Jones. It’s why we are all outraged by the obscenities and harassment coming from a bulldogs player.
If someone was bad mouthing another person and was caught out – maybe they walked into the room, perhaps an email was delivered to the wrong person – it is courteous to apologise, simple as that. It’s no excuse that the person thought they were off the record or were hang a “Mad Monday”. Nasty is nasty – full stop.
Any woman should be able to go to a bar and see a band without being harassed – it doesn’t matter if she is wearing jeans and a loose fitting top or a slinky dress. If she is approached and indicates that she is not interested then the guy needs to walk away respectfully – it’s not ok to call her a bitch or continue harassing her.
That is the behaviour I always expected of my male friends and have taught to my son and daughter. It’s not OK.
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I think it’s unreasonably grumpy to mind if people look – or even ‘ogle’. Don’t we all? Some people go out hoping to be looked at and even approached – we don’t all have a boyfriend at home. It’s the rest of it that is totally rude and unnecessary. I can’t imagine cracking onto a guy, having him politely decline, and then making a scene of it! Also I’m really curious about in which suburb I can apparently expect this…I’m at the end of my 20s and have spent way too much time in Melbourne bars, and I can’t think where it would be.
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So men can absolve themselves of responsibility in certain circumstances? What are they? Children?
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Are we living in the dark ages? Everyone should be entitled to a night out without unwanted attention. As for the security guys, they were obviously not doing their jobs and should be reported to the pub in question. Where do men get off thinking that this behavior is ok. As an ex manager of a pub i was always on the look out for guys harassing women who were only in for a quiet drink with their friends. It’s just not acceptable.
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Natalia,
No, it’s not cool. It’s not ok to be objectified.
However, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen, or will ever stop happening. I’m not saying that it’s right, but it is what it is. The reality is always different to the ideology, and while I’d love to be able to change that, I know damn well that it probably won’t ever change.
The story about the bulldogs is a different matter entirely. I’m probably going to get hammered for this but the boys were on the grog after a long and hard year, and most of them haven’t been able to drink for months. They were letting their hair down and enjoying each other’s company. What woman would, in their right mind, want to put themselves in the middle of that? Yet the Ch 9 reporter did. It’s a classic example of how observing something changes what is being observed. Channel 9 should have sent a bloke. I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s the intelligent and sensitive way to deal with it. There are plenty of instances where women resent input or the presence of men. Leave the boys to be tossers on their own and no-one will get hurt. It’s simple.
Back to the pub though, I don’t care if you were the only two chicks in the place, you should not have been treated the way you were, and I’m pleased to hear that a couple of guys did treat you decently and look out for you.
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So it’s ok for the rugby boys to use this kind of language to someone who was there just doing her job.
“There are some ladies here to stick their heads in your pants”.
“Suck me off you dumb dog”.
“I want to go and punch you in the face.”
No excuses.
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I hear what you are saying, however, why do they have to tossers? Sure they have “had a long hard year” and are drinking, however is it so damn hard to not be offensive, sexist and plain disgusting? Is it so hard for men in a group just to treat women as people and not as objects? I guess thats just too much to ask of some people, and it’s the woman’s responsibility to avoid the situation rather than expect to be treated with respect regardless of location and crowd. What a sad society we live in.
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Given that the Storm, Swans and Hawks all managed to talk to the media at the start of their Mad Monday celebrations then the media left them alone, maybe if the Bulldogs had been mature enough to do a quick media chat, it wouldn’t have turned into the farce it has. Bit like locking the media out of the change rooms after the final.
And that kind of language isn’t acceptable, whether you’ve been on the piss or not.
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She was there as a journalist covering a story, and she should be able to cover any story that her employer wants her to! Do we really live in a world where women can’t cover sports stories? Every year mad Monday is covered- this year Nathan hind marsh was dressed in drag at his. A few years ago the knights locked all their players in the stadium with a few exiles for their mad Monday, which was a great idea. Why on earth shouldn’t Jane be allowed to cover this story as a professional rather than a piece of meat?
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Alcohol or not, the comments were unacceptable. Alcohol doesn’t change who you are. It doesn’t make you a different person. It just brings out different (and sometimes bad) sides in people. If they said these kinds of things drunk, then I’m willing to bet that they have probably thought/said similar comments sober.
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Excellent point
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they’ve had a long hard year.
Are you serious???
they PLAY football. it’s a game and while it may also be their job, i’d hardly call it hard.
it’s not the first time the Bulldogs have behaved badly towards a woman. i do hope it will be the last time. won’t be holding my breath though.
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I’m GLAD they sent a woman, even though it’s awful she was subjected to that.
If they’d sent a bloke, as you suggest, we’d have missed the opportunity to hear what sexist morons there are in that team. I’d rather know.
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Alice, surely you jest.
You didn’t know they were sexist before those comments? I don’t understand how you couldn’t.
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I totally agree, those Rugby players should be allowed to do what they like, when they like. I mean, imagine…. a couple of months without booze, playing Rugby for a living and being paid enormous sums of money to do it… the poor things, life is hard on them, they should totally be forgiven for the odd lapse in human decency.
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Totally agree with everything you are all saying, but I think it’s important that these were rugby league players, not rugby players. Rugby players, as in super 15 and the wallabies, are rarely in trouble with the law. Rugby league, or nrl players have shown a complete disrespect for women and institutional used inability to say no to drugs over the last few decades. I know it’s a small difference, but generally rugby union players are far better behaved!
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What makes this so frustrating is that it isn’t a complex situation with shades of grey: it’s very simple. People, regardless of gender, have a right to be in public without being harassed.
Men may look and even ogle – there’s no rule against looking – and perhaps even flirt or make a polite enquiry. But a rebuff (hopefully also polite) should be the end of it. Groping and unwelcome touching is not acceptable. Verbal abuse is uncool and unacceptable at any point.
And alcohol is not an excuse for poor behaviour.
Exactly what is so difficult about this?
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Totally agree.
Last week I was out shopping when I noticed a guy looking at me. He came over, made polite small talk then asked me out. I politely told him I have a boyfriend but I am flattered by the offer. To be honest it would never occur to me to be rude to him because I think it takes great courage to approach a stranger like that. But then he also did it in a very honourable way.
A 5minute exchange, all pleasant and neither party walked away feeling offended or insulted.
Touching, invading someones pesonal space or continuing to annoy them after youve been rebuffed are all not ok. How hard is it?
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A guy approached you while out shopping, who does that sort of thing? I’d immediately think “weirdo”! But that’s just me….
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Someone really brave. Who says you can only approach someone at a nightclub/cocktail bar/party?
Good on him, I say.
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Ogling is one thing, we all look, whether male or female, and i don’t see a problem with that. Touching, groping, harrassing, calling of names – that is not on anywhere!
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I don’t agree with any part of this whole bulldogs saga. Yes, the comments were completely inappropriate however channel 9 were inappropriate to be there in the first place. The powers that be knew exactly what they were doing by sending a female reporter to a testosterone filled, alcohol induced environment. They were creating their story. As for the pub situation, no it isn’t alright but unfortunately you go to any pub/club outside of metropolitan areas and it’s an everyday occurrence. Whether we believe it’s ok or not, the truth is it happens, every single night of the week. Your comment regarding flat shoes confuses me. You’re saying we as women should be able to go anywhere and not be harassed (which I agree with) however throwing in this comment says “I wasn’t wearing heels so I shouldn’t have been approached ” Hmmmmm
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Hey JustMe, interesting point about the flat shoes! It was just to set the scene of what was meant to be a quite casual, low-key night – sadly I can’t remember what else I was wearing otherwise I would have put that in too!
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Nat, for what it’s worth, I took your “flat shoes” as an indication that you were ready to dance the night away, not that you were inferring a divide between flat or high-heeled shoes and the attention either “should” provoke.
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When I was young (when dinosaurs roamed the earth as my kids say) I used to wear spike heels out and I must say I found them very useful for when men didn’t know the boundaries or understand the keep your hands to yourself rule. A heel “accidentally” landing on their foot usually encouraged them to move on.
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The heels comment is interesting, I wouldn’t like to see the height of heels being taken as a sign that a chick is hot to trot.
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I hope to teach my daughter she can be absolutely anything she wants. Why on earth should a female journalist not be allowed to cover certain stories? I thought men and women were equal, and could choose whatever profession they want. Silly me.
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I am going to have to agree with Lauryn and Gary! If it wasn’t expected then why don’t women, myself included, wear tight fitting, low cut clothes to work?
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So, does that mean that since you wear tight fitting clothes it will be ok if someone casually groped you?
No, actually, that’s not ok.
Sure, look as much as you like, but what Natalia is talking about was harrasment, not just looking.
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Why don’t you wear a business suit to the beach? Or a ball gown to dinner at McDonalds? Our choice of clothes has very little to do with wanting to attract sexual attention or deter it, it’s about what our culture says is appropiate for different situations.
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I think you can expect to be looked at, even approached but once rebuffed you deserve to be respected and given your personal space and protected by the body guards – anything else is harrasment.
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