By JAMILA RIZVI
Anne-Marie Slaughter is the kind of woman I have always aspired to be. She’s had a phenomenal career: from Dean of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton to director of policy planning at the US State Department, working directly with Hillary Clinton. It’s the stuff my geeky political West Wing-esque dreams are made of.
Slaughter has a husband whom she loves and who loves her in return. She has raised two sons. She’s well respected in her community and is widely reported to be kind and funny and be nurturing of young female talent.
So when a woman with those sort of swoon-worthy credentials says that she’s been selling women of my generation a bullshit line and that we can’t actually have it all – I was just a little bit gutted.
Slaughter has penned an essay for American magazine The Atlantic that is set to be one of the most shared articles in history. (Clocking in at a little over 12,000 words, it is by no means an easy or light read but it justifies the time if you have it.) In it she explains her decision to quit the world of politics and policy in order to spend more time with her family.
In the essay Slaughter says:
I routinely got reactions from other women my age or older that ranged from disappointed (“It’s such a pity that you had to leave Washington”) to condescending (“I wouldn’t generalize from your experience. I’ve never had to compromise, and my kids turned out great”).
The first set of reactions, with the underlying assumption that my choice was somehow sad or unfortunate, was irksome enough. But it was the second set of reactions—those implying that my parenting and/or my commitment to my profession were somehow substandard—that triggered a blind fury.
Suddenly, finally, the penny dropped. All my life, I’d been on the other side of this exchange. I’d been the woman smiling the faintly superior smile while another woman told me she had decided to take some time out or pursue a less competitive career track so that she could spend more time with her family…
Ouch. Cue glass shattering around me. You see, I do that.
I’m one of those women who is all smiles and nods and is fiercely supportive of my friends’ choices to pull back from their previously career-driven lifestyles to have children. But I’m judging them. There is a small part of me that is smugly assuring myself that I’ll be different, I’ll strike that perfect balance and I won’t ever compromise the things I want to achieve, in order to have a family. Nor will I give up the perfect husband, two kids, a puppy and a white picket fence dream (actually no fence, don’t like fences).
Now, just a second, hold your smirks – I know that’s what you’re doing, I can feel it. When I talk this way, my own mother gets this knowing look behind her eyes and I bet she’s thinking “at least it’s going to be a little bit fun saying ‘I told you so’ when it all goes to shit for my absurdly naive eldest daughter.”
The debate about women ‘having it all’ is not new. And the debate about what ‘all’ actually is – isn’t new either.
I recall nodding along to every chapter of Virginia Haussegger’s great book “Wonder Woman – the myth of having it all’ and thinking “gosh I’m lucky to live in a generation where I know all about biological clocks. I’ll make sure not to forget about those.”
But what really makes the Atlantic essay so remarkable and why it resonated with me, is Slaughter’s admission that she felt extreme pressure to pretend she was coping (when she wasn’t) because she didn’t want to let down the sisterhood.
Slaughter says:
“Women of my generation have clung to the feminist credo we were raised with, even as our ranks have been steadily thinned by unresolvable tensions between family and career, because we are determined not to drop the flag for the next generation…
I’d been the one telling young women at my lectures that you can have it all and do it all, regardless of what field you are in. Which means I’d been part, albeit unwittingly, of making millions of women feel that they are to blame if they cannot manage to rise up the ladder as fast as men and also have a family and an active home life (and be thin and beautiful to boot).
Reading that, it’s hard not to wonder, if Slaughter can’t have it all, how the hell can I?
But having had a moment longer to dwell on the issue, I don’t think outrage and despair are necessarily the next logical steps in the thought process.
I ask you, what is wrong with having something to aspire to? We’re all madly pursuing happiness in our lives, right? I know I am. I cannot imagine I will ever get to a point in my life, where I can stand back and survey the scenery and conclude – yep, happiness achieved. Box ticked. Well done me. But that doesn’t mean happiness is not a valid aim. And that doesn’t mean I can’t try.
Here are some Australian and American feminists who we admire. [NB: Post continues below gallery]

Lauren Jackson, basketballer
Slaughter says we’re setting girls and young women up to fail. I’m not so sure that we are. I think we’re setting them up to dream big and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
The problems come when we airbrush reality to the point where women assume that the ‘dream’ is actually the norm. So when they don’t achieve it, they assume they’ve failed. And that is something that needs to change.
As women, we have a tendency to want to show our best selves. We brush over how difficult elements of life can really be. We don’t talk about the hard parts. When someone asks me how I am, I will unfailingly respond with “I’m great, you?” Even when I’m not great. Even when I’m drowning.
I don’t think having it ‘all’ is possible. But that doesn’t make the phrase defunct. It makes it an aspiration rather than a reality. And it’s an aspiration I’m going to chase as hard and as fast as I can.
I just hope I’ve got honest women like Anne-Marie Slaughter around me, when I inevitably don’t quite get there.
Women who will pick me up, dust me off and feed me wine.
Women who will admit that they too are not perfect.
And that it’s okay that I’m not either.
Do you think that women can ‘have it all’? Have you experienced times in your life where you’ve had to choose to prioritise your career over your family, or vice versa?









Comments
234 Comments so far
Jamila, you will like fences when you have kids because it keeps them away from the road.
And it’s not an “I told you so’ moment that other people wait for. It’s the inevitable fake smile plastered across women’s faces that fails to hide the wonky eyeliner, scraps down the front of your shirt, oily hair or the welling of tears as you struggle with 3 kids and a job, when we say, “it’s ok to give it up. It is hard and it’s not fun and it’s breaking you, some days just a little bit and some days you want to crawl into bed and tell the whole world to go away.”
After I became a mum, I was a little bit shit at everything I did because there were so many directions to be pulled in. A shitty uni student, shitty at work and a shitty mum as well. Sometimes, something’s got give to stop feeling that way every day and you can’t give your kids back….
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Beautifully put, cant agree more
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why can’t I post a comment?
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will try as a reply to my own comment..
The full version of Slaughter’s article has been in my handbag for 3 days – haven’t had time to read it (or anything else really for that matter). I think it’s so hard to “have it all” in the face value sense of that phrase.
And to have what you want in terms of work-life balance without missing out on too much sleep or some down time (which EVERYONE needs), is really difficult. I work FT as does my husband and we have a little one. What helps us are the following (not necessarily in any order as it would be hard to rank them as they are all equally important) – and I have to caveat this by saying that I know how very lucky we are:
1 – my husband works for a very, very family friendly company. 4 weeks paid paternity and no shame in tacking on vacation time to paternity leave. Flexibility extends to post-paternity leave time – he goes in late “officially” 1 day/week and very often is late other days because things happen. He is also able to pick-up and leave on most days if the unexpected happens and he makes a point of getting home between 5:30 and 6pm almost every night. He then gets online from home in the evening after bedtime if need be.
2 – I work for a very flexible company. 3 days in office/2 days at home with the ability to move my lunch break around to do what I want with my little one during the day when I work from home. On my office days, I leave early – on all 3 days – am home in time to spend my little one’s 5pm dinner with him and the rest of the evening before 7pm bedtime. I get online from home after bedtime if need be (I also have regular off hours work calls but won’t do them until after bedtime).
3 – in home care (nanny) – it is costing us a fortune, but it is the only way we can manage at the moment…actually, that’s not exactly true – we have been trying to get my little one into day care 2 days per week but the one we want is full so we have to wait until our reserved spot opens in January. Access to good/affordable care (nannies are not affordable in my opinion, but we make it work – a reimbursement scheme or tax break scheme should be in place but that’s another topic that has been discussed at great length). A nanny provides so much flexibility and help that allow us to go to work with great peace of mind; I am so thankful that we found such a wonderful one (and because I’m at home 2 days/week I really do know how she interacts with my little one – and he and we are lucky to have her).
My husband and I are both professionals (and older parents) who put in our dues long ago – before we were married and starting trying to have a baby. We are both at jobs that aren’t our dream jobs but are the right combination of interesting/flexible (and I do believe there’s an unavoidable tradeoff between the two…finding the right mix is hard).
I am aware that we are in the minority – but my point is – look what employers need to give to allow this work/life balance…and the government needs to step in to make various types of care options more affordable. These are the things that bring flexibility and possibilities.
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While I think it’s very normal and in many ways a good thing to have goals and aspirations, I think it can potentially be a very detrimental to focus on having it all.
It’s very easy to fall into the trap of not taking the time to enjoy life and be present in the moment when you are constantly living in the fantasy of the future.
It can also lean towards the notion of letting your achievements in life determine your happiness and self worth. And that is always a losing battle.
“In order to go on living one must try to escape the death involved in perfectionism.” – Hannah Arendt
It’s a quote I’m learning to live by.
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Love this so much
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Of course “having it all” is possible… It just depends on what your definition of “all” is!
This will forever be an issue for women*, whether they have children or don’t have children. Every thing we have/do in our life has different priorities and sometimes the effort required for certain things outweighs the actual priority it has in our life.
The thing that I continually struggle with is reassessing my prioroties and admitting to myself things are out of whack. The constant feeling that I will be judged for my choices plays a big part in my own struggles – my own issue that I am now more aware of and working on!
This reassessment/reprioritisation process is what I think we need to be better at in order to have whatever it is we deem as “having it all”
*I say women, but I know that men more than likely experience similar issues but in my experience men seem to be able to make a decision and move forward and not constantly question their decisions. The guilt and constant questioning ourselves seems to burden women moreso than men.
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For me it has always been this simple – I am the only mother my children have, and there is no-one else who can do that for me. Yes, I enjoyed my job. Yes, I thought my career would be different than what it is turning out to be. Yes, I thought I could have it ‘all’ – whatever that means.
I have realised that my children are my greatest achievement – there will never be any thing I will be more proud of in my life than being their mother, and knowing that I gave it everything I had.
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“I ask you, what is wrong with having something to aspire to? We’re all madly pursuing happiness in our lives, right? I know I am. I cannot imagine I will ever get to a point in my life, where I can stand back and survey the scenery and conclude – yep, happiness achieved. Box ticked. Well done me. But that doesn’t mean happiness is not a valid aim.” Jamila
You’re so right – and so is this quote;
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I remember being struck by something said by our G-G Quentin Bryce said in an interview on the 7:30 report to Kerry O’Brien.
KERRY O’BRIEN:… But the reality of trying to be super woman can tear women apart, can’t it?
QUENTIN BRYCE: It does, it absolutely exhausts them. For a very long time now I’ve been saying to young women, you can have it all, but not all at the same time. How important it is to take very good care of yourself, of your mental and physical and spiritual wellbeing, it’s hard to do. It’s easier to be a workaholic than to have a truly balanced life. It’s very tough for a lot of women teetering on that tight rope of balance and balancing too many responsibilities.
After listening to this a lightbulb went off for me…
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Like, like,like!!!!
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I have and often do think of this quote when my ‘all’ is challenged. Very wise words from a remarkable woman.
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What is “having it all”? It shouldn’t be defined as someone who juggles a successful high powered job and a family, but as someone who is genuinely happy with their life. Whether you work/don’t work, have a family/don’t have a family, happiness should be what we strive for. Isn’t being happy having it all?
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I’d like to pose another controversial question which is rarely, if ever discussed…for those of you who have had children, if you knew the practical ‘reality’ of what day to day life was going to be like – would you do it all over again knowing what you know now? For those who haven’t (or now can’t) have children do you regret making or putting off that decision? We are brought up to believe this is what we ‘should’ do & conditioned as to how we should approach it. From what I understand, having kids is not like a Johnsons baby commercial & I think this romantic ideal is what causes the problem. Breeding is a biological motivator & the primary reason we are here is to reproduce. ‘Careers’ are a manmade institution & causes societal pressure. Just look @ the animal kingdom as an example – they do what they are born to do naturally, no questions asked!
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In a heartbeat.
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Absolutely!
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My mother has said she would have 2 kids rather than 4, and as the oldest child I totally get that. Yes, she loves us all dearly, but even as an 11 year old I could see her quality of life dropped dramatically when she had my two youngest siblings. It was just too much.
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I’ll answer this honestly.
I’d do it again. BUT there have been many many times when I wondered what the hell I’d done to my life by having them. But after lots of soul searching, reading, counselling, red wine and me time I’ve stopped thinking that I’d ruined my life with kids. Always adored them…but I used to look at my friends in wonder, envy and disbelief when they said that being a mother was the best thing they ever did, or they ‘loved’ being a Mum. I was really unhappy for quite some time…. looking back now it was probably PND…. I just wanted to enjoy them. But didn’t.
They are now nearly 3 and 4 and sometimes I feel like I’m coming out the other side and me and my husband can start living a bit for ourselves again and that is the best part. Just holding out for next month when we leave the kids with family and go off skiing for a week.
It has been no Johnson & Johnson commercial. But they have been my lifes greatest teachers.
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I do not have children and have never regreted the decision. Being a mother is a hard and often thankless role, it is not for everyone. But I am not career oriented either. I have fabulous nieces and nephews who I see regularly. I live life on my own terms and that is the way I want it. Everyone must find thier own path.
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I was never clucky. It was my husband who convinced me it was the right time to have a child/children. If I could go back in time, would I choose children again? Absolutely! No regrets.
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Oh yes, for sure!!
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Without a doubt! Even when the going gets tough – and it can be tough at times.
There is something about the bond you have with your own child/children that cannot be expressed in words alone. It’s so powerful. The thought of life without them is unbearable.
I never went through that clucky, biological-clock-ticking thing either…
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Such a great question. My answer, as a mum of 3, is yes, absolutely. But my husband and I very mindfully made a considered decision to have children about 4 years after we got married. So many people seem to have children straight after they get married because that is what you do next, or because they become pregnant without meaning to. I think it is much easier to deal with the realities of parenting if you have mindfully decided to become a parent with all that it entails. I imagine it is similar with not having kids – if this is a deliberate decision then it would sit more comfortably than if it was through infertility or not meeting a partner at the right time. Having decided to have kids, we also decided that I would stay at home with them until the youngest starts school, and therefore prioritise parenting over career for that time. Although in the meantime I’ve been really lucky to find meaningful part time work from home that pays really well and can be done in the evening after they go to bed. I feel like the balance has worked out pretty well for us.
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Id do it again and have the 4 of them, but I’d ideally have had them much closer together. The first 2 a bit young and the 2nd too a bit old, with 10 years between nos 2 and 3. No 4 is nearly 9 and sometimes I just wish I didn’t have to worry about childcare, or I could just go out by myself etc. I’ll be 56 when she turns 21 and sometimes the thought of that really white me. ITs not their fault though, just how it worked out.
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One fair criticism of Anne Marie Slaughter’s article, which i found thoroughly readable and thought-provoking, was that the job she left was peculiarly demanding. Some say the fact she couldn’t sustain her senior government role and parent her teenage sons was a simple matter of logistics – there’s not enough time in a day or week to do both of those jobs. Working as a senior policy adviser to the US Secretary of State is undoubtedly a round-the-clock type of job. So I accept that was part of Slaughter’s dilemma. BUT. So many senior positions these days also demand round the clock commitment that it’s a familiar scenario for lots of women. How many women choose to stop work, not because they desperately want to, but because it becomes impossible to sustain a senior role and parent children in the same life? I think a different attitude towards working hours – for men and women alike – could be a possible solution to this dilemma. Why exclude talented, driven employees who want to work, from an organisation, just because they don’t want to work 24/7. It seems very limiting to exclude the potentially valuable contributions of employees just because they choose to commit time to other pursuits – whether that’s raising a family, caring for elderly parents or maintaining a different balance. That’s my two cents!
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I take your point with working hours but I think that is just the point. I have been lucky enough to have a great job and have the most amazing flexible working hours imaginable and guess what… it still required compromise and in the end the compromise was just too great. I have also been lucky enough to have my own business and here you would think that your work hours are your own – wrong again, because clients can’t have meetings at 10pm and since they don’t have kids, they don’t realise its school holidays and the kids are setting fire to themselves while you have a professional conversation on skype (I of course exaggerate!).
So my dilemma as a child of the 80′s who was totally sold on the “you can have it all” Kool-aid, is how do I have a fulfilling and success filled career and be in the moment as a parent? So far I’ve tried a few things but none has been as good as I have wanted it. So right now I am helping my husband grow his business and being a Mum. It sucks some days and I hate the boringness and lack of intellectual stimulation but I am making sure I give myself projects to do that are not time bound and meaningful to keep up my skills. This is the choice I have chosen for right now. This is not my forever choice and in a few years when my child doesn’t need or want me so much I will make another choice.
But, like Ann-Maree when I mention my choice to some of my more career orientated friends, I do feel like I am squandering my talent, I feel guilty and I feel judged and that is the crux of it. Why do I feel like less of a successful woman because of my choices? I applaud Ann-Maree for her article.
For more of this conversation from a slightly different point of view check out Joanne Wilson. Her husband Fred is a Venture Capitalist in New York who is only slightly less amazeballs than she. Check out her blog and also the comment section. Some of the women posing will not be familiar in Australia but they are tech legends in the US.
http://www.gothamgal.com/gotham_gal/2012/06/life-is-all-about-decisions.html
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This is one part I think is incorrect about the current having it all debate: people think it’s only high-powered, high-paid jobs that are incompatible with motherhood. This is no linger true. When I went back to work after may leave, I was expected to pull 80 hour weeks, be on blackberry 24/7, leave the playground on weekend mornings if my boss thought of something she needed done … All for $75k a year plus super. And I know I’m not the only one. The behaviour of highly paid execs is now expected within the ranks in many industries – and you can forget about going part-time. The closest many workplaces come to flexible is allowing you to wfh if your child is sick.
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Wow. To me, 75k a year IS a high paying job!
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Not if you’re working 80 hours per week. Works out to be $18 per hour.
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Hmm i just wrote a comment that disappeared. I don’t think it was controversial (?) so would it be a technical problem?
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Hey Georgie, we’re having a little trouble with comments today unfortunately and lots are deleting themselves. Sorry! I can’t find it in the back… any chance you saved it first?
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No trouble – i just rewrote it!
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Really interesting, thought provoking post Jamila. I too have felt that smugness towards people I know, because they didn’t go to uni, or finish uni or something. Usually I don’t like said people much in the first place, so my dislike is not founded on smugness.
Do I have it all though? A comfortable house, a loving, supportive husband, regular casual teaching work, a distance language course…plus there’s the fitness I’m working on and the close by family, should I ever need to chat and the friends as well. The only thing from a surface level that is missing is a baby, but as everyone tells me, I’m only 24, so there’s plenty of time for that.
Looking at all that, I don’t feel like I have a life another woman would necessarily want…it suits me, but I have made it suit me. I look at the lives of some friends and wonder how they do it, but they make it work. At the end of the day, I try not to let life get in the way of having fun now and then too (easier said than done) and just try to be present. It could all change tomorrow.
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I had it all – and it was exhausting. Working full time in reasonably high pressured role with two under the age of three. Something had to give in the end because I was giving my all and no one was getting my best. I’ve ended up parking the career for a while and taking a less pressured role working 4 days a week.
I felt relieved when I read Anne-Marie’s essay and somehow vindicated from my own judgement of myself. I wish that someone had told me this in my twenties!
I was reading a few comments about men’s roles in this and I wanted to say that I think you have to be the change that you want. We have a really balanced co-parenting style in our house where my husband has equal responsibility for the care of our children – drop offs, pickups, sick days, holidays, covering for the other for work trips or out of hours meetings – we share all of this evenly and agreed that we would from the get go.
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But who organises playdates, schedules for the family, buys shoes for the kids?
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Not that it’s really any of your business Anon – I mostly do and that’s because I’m better at it than he is. I was born with organising gene and he wasn’t. I also play that role in most of my relationships.
I also flat refuse to mow the lawns, take the garbage out, clean the gutters etc – not because I can’t but because I don’t want to!
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Absolutely Melissa! I refuse to mow the lawn and do the gardening because I couldnt think of anything worse to do. My husband loves it and finds it therapeutic. I take the kids to the Dr, to parties and for haircuts because I enjoy being involed in that part of their lives. People may think its all a very stereotypical sexist arrangement but we are doing what we enjoy doing.
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You can’t have two parents working in high flyer career roles. A little man in our grade one class was suspended for continuous bulling behavior. Both parents full time lawyers. Both parents ordered to the principals office. Both parents too busy to attend to discuss their child.
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I’m thrilled to see your child attends a school that actually addresses that sort of behaviour! Now thats refreshing.
We often say the only way parents will take notice of complaints about their childs behaviour is when it begins to inconvenience them, like suspension. How did it pan out?
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One fair criticism of Anne-Marie’s Slaughter’s article, which I found thoroughly readable and thought-provoking, was that her dream job was peculiarly demanding which made it especially difficult to combine with parenting her sons. Working as a senior adviser to the US Secretary of State is undoubtedly a round the clock type of job so i think that observation is fair. BUT. My take is that so many jobs, particularly senior roles, these days require almost the same commitment of time despite not being a senior government figure or CEO. How many women leave corporate careers not because they really want to stop altogether, but because it becomes impossible to maintain a senior position AND parent so they opt for the latter? I think a more enlightened attitude towards working hours – for men and women alike – could be a solution to that dilemma. It seems silly to cut out potential employees – who are driven, professional and willing to work – just because they don’t want to commit to being on call 24/7.
That’s my two cents! Here’s the blog I wrote for BRW on this topic.
http://www.brw.com.au/p/sections/fyi/time_the_biggest_barrier_to_women_rdNFlgl1REGxEJvWqPsLpM
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I have always envisioned having it all. And my parents gave up a lot so that I could have the opportunity to have it all. But I have never known how I am actually supposed to do it without, you know, falling apart. And I’m terrified of disappointing myself one day by NOT being able to have it all.
At the moment I juggle a full-time job and full-time uni. And everyone is constantly asking me how I can possibly do it. But I’m in a long-distance relationship. I have very few family commitments. No kids. I’m healthy. Everyone I know is healthy. Compared to what’s to come, this is a piece of cake.
That’s not to say that I will stop trying to have it all and keep myself – and everyone around me – happy. But like Jam, I’m so thankful that there are honest women out there who will say to me – “you might not have it all, but that’s okay” – when I won’t say it to myself.
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Just the fact that you think this way at this stage of your life, says to me – you already have it all.
Having it all is a state of mind – once my children came in to my life, climbing my way up the corporate ladder paled in comparison. It just wasn’t and isn’t a priority or a burning desire anymore.
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My understanding of feminism has never been that it promised women they could ‘have it all’. I think that’s evolved as part of the backlash that Susan Faludi spoke about in her book of the same name.
Feminism promised women that they deserved choice, and they deserved to be treated equally. Any time an article or essay appears questioning feminism’s ‘lies’ about having it all, it only further contributes to the dialogue that feminism has been some kind of failed experiment that caused more damage than it solved.
If ‘having it all’ means being able to work while raising a family (a fairly western, middle class concept, given that many of us can choose whether or not to work and therefore ‘have it all’ in a way that would be enviable to many people) then this bears repeating: why is it that men are never faced with the quandary of whether or not they can ‘have it all’? It’s because it’s assumed that they can and do. If society both allowed and made more demands of men when it comes to parenting rather than just expecting them to babysit every so often, they would be forced to deal with the very same questions that plague working women who become mothers, while those pressures would be alleviated slightly for the latter.
How many times do we really need to have this damn conversation? We’re not getting anything new out of it, only further reinforcing the prejudices of people who want to misunderstand what feminism and its core aims are all about.
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Is this the bit where I inseeet a snide reply like you did to me below Clementine.
You comment that men do have it all, then go on to say that society doesnt allow men a parenting role. Well hello, that isnt having it all, is it. The biggest help for women is to give men greater work family flexibility
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I didn’t say society didn’t allow men a parenting role. I said it should allow more of one and make more demands of one on men, rather than giving them the freedom to just be ‘dads’, a view you seem to agree with.
I think the proof is in the pudding – we can find endless resources of women stressing about their performance as mothers, and the demands placed on them. Very little of that coming from fathers. We don’t expect fathers to compromise on their working hours in order to parent – for many people, that seems an absurd suggestion. Women stay at home because ‘her salary would barely cover the childcare’, as if it’s her financial burden to take care of the children rather than something both their salaries can contribute to.
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“why is it that men are never faced with the quandary of whether or not they can ‘have it all’?”
Maybe it is because men know they can’t have it all or better yet and more probable; it’s not talked about, because like most things, there are not 10,000 chatter blogs devoted to every thought, whim and opinion of men.
Men don’t discuss these things at any great length of conspicuousness, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t on their minds.
There is an assumption equal in relevance, meaning, and demand placed on men that they be the breadwinners and like men assuming women to be child raisers, there are just as many women with expectations that men will indeed be the bread winner, albeit, like most things, not very oft talked about.
So to assume men either presume they have it all, or that they do not face equal and relative pressure is insulting and bias.
Unfortunately the small matter of biology plays more than a significant role in delivering a small proportion of gender roles, such as men not being able to birth, nor breastfeed.
As society advances, the role of breastfeeding can be diminished, though the birthing will most likely not be changing anytime soon. Even at the thin end of the wedge there will exist irregularities and inequalities because of biology.
The amount of men taking on more parental responsibility will most likely be in equal proportion to the amount of women taking on more financial responsibility, that little burden that gets next to no appreciation nor “Mummy Blog” talk.
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I love Clementine Ford! Hooray!
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I agree that women can have it all, just not at the same time. If you have a successful career as a young woman and then make the decision to take a step back and do the family thing while you have young children, that doesn’t mean that success is somehow cancelled out! Nor does it mean you wont achieve more in your career after your children are a bit older. Also, i sometimes feel that men have other pressures in relation to the home/family thing. I think they often feel pressured to be the one that supports the family financially and that they often aren’t given the choice as to whether they’d like to be the stay at home parent…there aren’t all that many choices for men (as previously mentioned there aren’t many part time options for men). I know my husband and i often talk about trying to share the home time when we have children (although we both work freelance in different industries so i admit it’s easier for us to juggle than many other couples).
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Society has changed enormously in the last 50-60 years.
The workplace (*generally) has not and is still based on the assumption that a man comes into the office all day and a woman stays at home to work. Some places are slowly starting to move with the times, but in a general sense, coming in 9-5 (ok 8-5:30) sitting your bum on a chair in your office or cubicle and going home is still considered the norm.
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Try 7.30-6.
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Maybe for you.
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No, not just me. The last 3 workplaces I’ve been at, those have been the standard hours, so to stand out in a good way, you need to work more. Stand out in a bad way? Come in later than everyone else.
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Well, then clearly, you haven’t been working at the right places or you’re in an industry where the dominant culture is about how long you work as opposed to efficiency.
I’m a solicitor, most of my friends are solicitors and my partner is a solicitor. Most would agree, law is one of the most “demanding” and “long hour focused” industries.
Generally, we all work 7:45-8am to 5:30ish and often have time to take an hour for lunch. Working longer than that is only when there are trials or an usually high work load on.
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So you’re in crime, I take it (you mention “trials” in your post)? If so, this is hugely different in terms of the hours you’re expected to work than, say, corporate law or banking. I should know, having worked as a lawyer in the public sector myself.
My husband, a corporate lawyer, would die laughing at the suggestion that he could work 7:30am to 5:30pm. Case in point: last night he came home at 9:30pm… after having left for work at 7, that is (and we live in the CBD, so minimal travel time is involved). I admit that this is later than he usually gets home, but still, he would never be home before 7:30pm. Trust me, he is incredibly efficient at what he does and has absolutely no desire to be there longer than needed (it makes him utterly miserable, to be honest), but that’s just the reality of the job at his level of seniority.
I think you’d actually be surprised at how few professionals get to leave work at 5:30pm and law, on the whole, is certainly not a good example of an exception to the rule (I think you’ll find that the literature on the psychological ills of lawyers particularly supports my suggestion).
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Well, actually you’re both right.
I work in Finance and at some places we’ve been understaffed, overworked and been in the office all hours. Believe me when I say that the 80 hour weeks I was doing had f*ck all to do with inefficiency. I also know lawyers doing similar hours at some of the big firms and out in commerce.
I currently work at a place where I rock in around 9am (if I’m on time), take a decent lunch break and leave by about 6pm.
Every company is different, even within the same industry. I’d agree that the 9-5 dream is long gone for most but for some the hours aren’t that much longer, for others they’re ridiculous. Accusing someone of working at the wrong place isn’t exactly helpful though is it?
(ETA this comment was directed at Anonymous above, not Guest by the way)
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To Guest – who I can’t reply to…
My friends, partner and I are a mixture of commercial litigation, construction, banking, insurance & PI….so nope, no crime there, trials do happen in other areas of practice outside of crime.
Don’t know whether we’re all just “lucky” or whether we’re part of a growing change in the legal profession. Certainly never been my experience that getting home at 7:30pm is usual. Not the experience of my partner or friends then.
None of us work in the same place either, nor in house, nor government, all in private practice.
But yes, I accept what you’re saying, that the legal profession as a “whole” is definitely not one to look to for an example of reasonable working hours. Lots of depressed lawyers out there.
I definitely think that as Gen Y pushes up into the senior positions, things are slowly slowly getting better. I certainly always ignored one of my boss’ comments that “people who work longer hours do better” and left at 5:30 unless I had an alarming amount of work to do.
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Sorry, I must have missed that memo from Feminist Headquarters. Do you have a copy you could send me? I’d hate to not be up to date with the various lines feminism has apparently ‘sold’ me.
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Um, if you fail to acknowledge that some feminists push the ‘have it all’ mantra, that women should not choose to be solely mothers (for instance), then you have been living under a rock.
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The individual views of some feminists is not the same as ‘a line that feminism pushes’. You’re free to disagree with anyone’s viewpoint – but it’s misinformed to say that feminism pushes a line just because some feminists say things you disagree with.
In fact, it’s just as misinformed as me saying the cult of motherhood pushes a line of subservience because some mothers desire no life outside their children.
If I said that here, I would be rightly lambasted by most of the commentors. I don’t know why it should be any different just because you’re pillorying feminism.
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“some feminists push the ‘have it all’ mantra”
Name them.
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Um, if you think ‘not being solely a mother’ = ‘having it all’, then you have not been understanding some basic concepts.
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Wow, a little rude
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Oh you really must update your subscription, Clem – meantime, the edicts are all on feminazi.com.
For all the “rules” feminism is apparently imposing on me, i usually find the instructions on what I can and can’t do seem mainly to come from men …
I don’t want it all: I just want enough superannuation to live on when I retire.
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From the outside I have it all. Good career, education, house, the man of my dreams and my beautiful daughter, I even have the puppy and white picket fence lol. However if it were financially viable for us I would happily give up my job and stay home with my daughter, cooking dinner for my man and spending time with my dogs. The happiest time of my life was my 12 months maternity leave, it was the only time in my adult life where I slept well, felt energised, and felt no insecurities at all. Now I’m back at work (and have been 10 months) I only get a full night’s sleep once a week, and feel like I’m ‘pretending’ to be someone I’m not in a job I don’t really like. For me having it all would be staying at home and I will happily tell any of my career & mother friends that (not that I have many).
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You can change your life to make it possible if you really want it.
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I think possibly you can have it all, but eventually something has to give. I have many female friends with high earning jobs, myself included, young children, good marriages, lovely homes etc. What you dont see is how hard we’re working to keep up the illusion that everything is good, we have everything we’ve ever dreamed of, we were told young that we can have it all and we’ve worked towards that goal. What else your not seeing is how many are on Xanax or anti-depressents, or self medicating with a few glasses of wine at night, have no hobby or outlet for themselves, are desperately wanting to get some time out that doesn’t involve doing things for other people. For all of my close friends they hit around the 40 mark and crashed, before I get shot down, I am in no way saying its everyone, but I can only speak from my own circle and I can honestly say its widespread. For myself, I am the proverbial duck on the pond, I look calm and cool on the surface, I get asked, “how do you do it?” but underneath, let me tell you, its chaos, but I feel I need to keep up the pretense.
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Thankyou for being so honest. I have a friend who was discussing this with her GP last week and she told her that she would be surprised if she knew how many people are actually medicated just to be able to cope with the demands of what is considered successful modern living.
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I think you can have it all, but it’s really hard going and you’re not going to have a huge amount of time left over to relax and enjoy it all.
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Thank you for your honest and moving post.
I’m curious – when you say your friends “crashed” around the 40 mark, what changes, if any, did they make in their lives as a result? As someone with a baby, contemplating when/how/if to go back to the demands of an all-consuming career, I’m curious as to what ended up happening with your friends who did seemingly have it all, if you don’t mind sharing…
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Hmmm. Guess it depends on what ‘having it all’ actualy means to you. I had serious drive when I was younger. Punched through some of that glass ceiling and had a kick arse job in IT where I had big responsibilities and some decision making power and a scary as hell budget to play with. At that time I had one child in primary school, and a baby and a husband who had absolutely no career ambitions whatsoever. Then we built a house. And I LOVED the experience of choosing all the finishes and furnishngs etc. Decided to study design. Applied to a competitive course and got in. Was just about to take a leave of absence from work when I was retrenched – so I had funds to study. Studied. Hard. Did pretty well. Set up on my own. Mine however was the second income, with ebbs and flows. This also allowed me to have a 3rd child. I say allowed because I can not imagine having the big kick arse career AND three kids. Remember dear readers, this is JUST *MY* opinion.
Cue forward a few years. Now a single parent. My eldest out at uni, however I’m still the primary carer of the youngest two. I don’t want the big kick arse career. I can’t do it anymore. Do I miss the disposable income? Hell to the yeah. But I don’t miss having to make the judgement call between do I take a day off because my kids need me or do I shit myself that my boss won’t be happy if I can’t make that supplier meeting etc. I now work a 4 day week for a company and do some of my own work on the side. The company I work for are hugely family friendly and I’m SO lucky to have their support.
I’m happy to say that I ‘can’t have it all’ in other peope’s eyes. But I’m also more than happy to say I’m happy with most of my lot. And the stuff I’m not, I’m working on.
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Oh, and further to that, I think the biggest help toward women balancing their lives is to give men more work / family flexibility. A focus here would do more good than anything else.
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Completely agree!! I once tore my hubbys boss a new one when he wouldn’t let him take some time off when I needed surgery – after he’d just taken a few days off to buy real estate. A few years later when he had married and had children he actually apologised to me for his stance.
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ABSOLUTELY – in order for women to remain able to be engaged in the workplace, workplaces need to be FAMILY focused and flexible for both mothers and fathers. I think this is the #1 thing that needs to change and would make a world of difference.
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I think that ‘having it all’ means different things for different people. For me, it means 2 kids, husband, work 1 day a week in a job that I love, plenty of time for family acitivities and having a couple of hours a week to myself. For my best friend, it means 2 kids, full time work, holidays alone with her husband and a couple of hours a week to herself. For another friend it means being a stay at home mum to 3 kids, while her executive husband supports them financially and she has plenty of time to volunteer at school etc. We are all happy with our choices. At the end of the day having what you want is more important that ‘having it all’.
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So well put. =D
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Hey mamamegan, you have written what I was thinking…but so much better
Every one of us has individual circumstances and our goals should match our circumstances and abilities and should be SMART. Also, I think goals and aspirations are different to dreams. To me, dreams are not necessarily acheivable – such as my life long dream to tap dance on a Broadway stage
I constantly re-evaulate if am happy with what I have and if I have what I want.
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I have it all. But having it all also means I have days when I get completely overwhelmed with my life. This is usually fixed by a good cry.
It is the price I pay and I don’t think I or my family would have it any other way. Just some days it is hard. Really hard.
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OMG how good is a good cry!! I love me a shower cry, where you can just let the tiles have it. And – the bonus is there are spectacular acoustics!! x
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shower cry FOR THE WIN
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I don’t believe both parents can have high powered careers at the same time and a few kids and manage to be properly committed at work, meeting the kids needs, having a fulfilling relationship and having time for self and friends. Something has to give. Someone has to take a back seat career wise at some point.
I would rather succeed at a few chosen things than have everything in a half assessed and stressful way.
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To me “having it all” means living a giving, interesting, fulfilling life in a secure environment. Opportunities, education, career highs and lows and family ups and downs are all part of that. I agree that the juggling act is harder for women as usually it is they who take responsibility for nurturing others. My life has had both peaks and troughs that have lead to new decisions and circumstances. I have few regrets so I think that I am pretty fortunate. I believe that trying to be your best in all aspects in life is the most positive way to “have it all”. So yes…aim high!
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My mother gave up her career when my little brother was born – it is something that she now bitterly regrets doing. She is an amazingly intelligent and capable woman and now feels that she effectively wasted many years after my brother started school.
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I don’t see why women can’t ‘have it all’. I just think think we need to re-think what ‘having it all’ really means.
My mum was a SAHM, and my father worked an 80-hour week. My mum’s great, but despite her being in my face for hours a day, I had far more quality time with my Dad. He was the one who would sit and talk with me for an hour after work. As in really have a conversation, not just try to get information out of me. He was the one who would play games with me, and go on walks with me and spend hours answering a question my mum would have brushed off. My mum was always with me, but all we ever talked about was whether I’d remembered my books and what time I needed to be picked up and why the hell I kept losing my school jumper. She cooked and cleaned and did a million other little things for me, and I do get that and appreciate it, but frankly I would have been much happier if she’d hired a cleaner, ordered some take-out and taken the time to really get to know me as a person.
When I was 17 my mum started volunteering full-time, and though she wasn’t around nearly as much, we actually became much closer because of it.
I think a lot of women think that it’s the amount of time that matters, but what I and everyone I know remembers about growing up is the quality time when you felt like your parent was really connecting with you. You can have both parents around 24/7 and never have that, and you can have both parents working long hours and end up having a beautiful, close relationship with them because what time they did spend with you they made count.
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Thank you for your post.
As a full time working mother, I have periods of intense guilt especially since my working would be judged as being “unnecessary” by people who think the only reason moms work are financial reasons….there are lots of other reasons to work in my mind – maintaining financial independence is only one (an important one, but one of many). I have a very flexible company and do have a fair amount of weekday time with my little boy considering that I work full time…and the one thing I always try to do is ensure that it is quality/focused time…not just time spent in the same room but time doing things together whether it be reading one of his books (he’s a toddler), playing take things out and put them back for the tenth time, chase down the hallway, etc. My husband is the same, when he’s home and it is daddy time he is a full on engaged dad. So, we hope that we are doing what is best for all of us and our little family.
oh – and my husband has ZERO guilt – no guilt about his full time working and no guilt about my full time working – it’s just different for men
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So true & beautifully written x
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That was meant in response to Sarah’s comment
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I grew up with a professional full time working mum and its certainly not a life I would or have chosen for my own children. She was rarely home before 7pm, same as my dad, and when they were home they were tired and cranky and really not great to be around. Also being a perfectionist and obsessed with appearances our house always had to be spotless, which meant most weekends were spent with my parents cleaning and gardening etc. While my sister and I were pretty much left to our own devices. We had zero family time apart from annual holidays. Which were nice, but given the choice I would have much preferred to grow up in a small house and have my mum around and both my parents more involved.
They’re both now retired and so have huge regret and are trying to make it up to us all by being fabulously involved and present grandparents.
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Sounds a lot like my life, just swap full time working mother with full time golfing mother, but I guess in her eyes she also “had it all “
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The thing lost in the reproduction of her article all over the place in the last week is that she was specifically talking about women in power. Enormous power. The type who would never have time to spend on Mamamia! She didn’t give up her job in the Obama administration to do the school run, she ‘downshifted’ to Dean of Princeton Law School (or similar, I haven’t got it open at the moment).
I don’t think you should ever tell a woman she can’t have it all, because we don’t tell any men that. She does however raise entirely valid problems with the structure of society, from the insistence of being office based and not telecommuting to the school system being still based on harvesting cycles not the realities of modern work. She also touches on the (sometimes touchy) subject of men finding it easier to leave their kids 50 hours a week than women.
But yet again she frames it as a women’s issue, not a family issue. Despite her own arrangements (where it seems her partner has been the primary carer for significant periods) it still came down to what the woman’s choice is. Choice being relative to middle class, well educated women for whom where they work, at what level and how much is actually a choice as a opposed to the vast majority of women in the world who work to feed their families.
The essential component I think she missed (well from an Australian context) is that we have made great leaps in being able to find what works for families in positions in the ‘middle’. So part time work is available in big companies and the public sector (and other places, but routinely in those places) for people up to a certain point of management. After that you might be on the other side of the glass ceiling looking down, but the conditions nad the flexibility evaporates. Equally, those in unskilled, insecure casual work know they can be replaced by someone ‘more available’ at a moment’s notice and their choices to ‘have it all’ are curtailed as well.
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I think men are starting to realise they can’t have it all either. Sure, they can work long hours with no questions asked, but at the expense of their family life. If they reduce their work hours or God forbid become SAHDs, their very worth can be called into question.
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maybe you can think that YOU have it all – but do your CHILDREN have it all? I think the thing is that maybe some people can jugggle their lives and it make look and feel that all is OK – trouble is that you don’t really find out if you’ve done a good job with raising your kids until they are older & then it’s too late to go back. I would love to go back to my career – but for me I just know I couldn’t do it as well as I want and also parent my children as well as I want to. I figure it may be possible in the future to get a second chance at my career [in some form], but with my kids I won’t get a second chance. Also, sometimes life will throw you a curve ball [one of my kids has some minor special needs] and you just don’t get to choose. It’s definitely up to everyone to live their life in the best way for them – I just think that maybe when you try to have it all – your relationship with yourself suffers – I know I need some downtime to not BE anything to anyone – I just can’t see how I could do that if I was pursuing a career right now. And I totally agree with the comment that men never seem to worry about this stuff – I think they know that women will!!
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Women have always worked (despite the popular myths of history) and generation after generation of children have always turned out just fine.
Curve balls happen and there is no requirement to be desperately scraping your way to the top, but shouldn’t it be an available option or dream for everyone, not just 50% of the population?
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Up until very recently even women who didn’t have a paying job worked so hard they had almost no time for their children. Before washing machines, electric/gas ovens, water on tap, electricity and so on, just doing basic things like the washing or cooking a meal or making a bath would take hours and hours. My grandmother remembers her mother spending 5 hours a day outside, even in the peak of winter, doing the washing for her family of 11.
It’s only in the last few decades we’ve expected mothers to be with their children all day. Previous generations pretty much left the kids to fend for themselves all day whilst they got things done, or if they were wealthier they hired help who would take care of the kids.
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of course it should be available to whoever wants to pursue it. I was just explaining it from my perspective and the choice that I’ve made – I’d never say that I knew how someone else should live their lives. I think it would be fantastic if men thought about these issues more and made choices that would enable their partners to have a more balanced work/life situation.
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Actually, you can have it all.
I have a great career, a wonderful husband, and three fabulous, happy, well-adjusted children.
How did I achieve it? It’s wasn’t easy. It was actually really hard.
What you can’t do is piss away your twenties, faff about with your education, and think it will all be handed to you.
I worked like a dog in my twenties – finishing my degrees, getting married, having babies, establishing my career by working in entry level roles and working my way up, buying a crappy house, then upgrading.
And now in my thirties, it’s paying off (although I still work like a dog). This sounds hideously smug, I know, but Jamila is right – if you work really, really hard, and you’re blessed with brains in your head, then you can happily combine motherhood, marriage and career.
You don’t get to sleep very much, but.
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I agree to an extent and followed the same path as you. My 20s were what I hope I look back on as the hardest I’ll ever work. But its paying dividends now.
The thing is even that isn’t foolproof. Marriages fail. Careers falter. Fertility problems step in.
Its definitely a good way to start though.
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I’m just about to turn the corner where, in theory, my sacrifices will start to pay off. I hope you’re right!
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You’ve had to compromise sleep to get to where you feel you have it all, therefore I dont believe you had it all, you can keep that up, it will undoubtably lead to illness and stress.
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You might be interested in this response to that Anne-Marie Slaughter article, written by Lori Gottlieb (author of Marry Him! A Case for Settling for Mr Good Enough.):
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-having-it-all-and-there-never-will-be/258928/
And then a response to that article, praising Lori Gottlieb:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/lori-gottlieb-and-anne-marie-slaughter/259157/
I agree with Gottlieb: It shouldn’t be a surprise to a grown woman that no one (neither men nor woman) can ‘have it all’. But that depends on your definition of having it all. If you’re aware that having it all does include a number of compromises, then you CAN ‘have it all’… or at least have most of it.
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For me the most frustrating part of this debate is that it is only women who struggle with this concept of ‘having all’.
Men who are fathers never assume that they need to take the major role in caring for their homes, children and families. Society never expects this of them. Only women are expected to take on this significant role and then attempt to find the elusive and frankly, imaginary, ‘balance’ in life.
I would love to see a society where parents can alternate or more equally share that key homemaker/primary parent role. That’s what I aspire to.
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I agree. In fact my husband has regularly complained since our daughter was born about how no-one questioned him going back to work 2 weeks after she was born. No-one tut-tuts him about it. But he also gets weird looks when he takes time off to care for her when she is sick or even gets ‘Why? Where is your wife?’ when he requests the leave. When I recently went back to work full time and was anxious about missing her we had an interesting discussion about how what I was so afraid of was his daily experience. I actually wonder whether the balance will only truly be struck once men’s parenting rights are more fairly addressed in the workplace and more men begin to take advantage of it. It staggers me that in many workplaces if the father of a child wished to take parenting leave that they often do not get equivalent time to what women get in maternity leave.
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Couldn’t agree more Hazelsmum.
I’m in a more male dominated area and big fella in a more female dominated area, so he hasn’t had any turned heads for requests for sick leave to look after sick kids. They do however think he is some kind of hero for it.
We have a long way to go…
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The point you raise is very valid – where women are highly valued by society in a parental role, men’s contributions are still largely seen as token efforts that they still need to be congratulated about. The stereotype of the father bumbling a nappy change or being generally inept are just as outdated as those of mothers having to be SAHM to be “good mums”. Most fathers I know these days of my age (32) are massively involved with the raising of their children, not just provision of financial support.
This is a contribution that should be recognised not in a patronising “oh aren’t they cute they are trying” type way, but in a society wide respect in the form of paternity leave etc.
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I can see small signs that it’s starting to happen.
I work with a woman who’s husband is a SAHD, my BIL works part time. A few of the guys I know work from home one day a week so they can do drop off/ pick up and cook dinner.
Small steps, but significant ones…
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Love it Jamila; nothing wrong with dreaming big! I think women can have it all, maybe not all at the same time though. You can’t have all of anything without a lot of hard work!
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I believe it was our Govenor-General who said “women can have it all, just not at the same time”.
I agree. I have a personal belief women have three possible roles – mother, wife and employee/worker. You van only do two of the three WELL at any one time. If you focus on your children and husband (or partner or significant other) then your work will suffer. And vice versa.
You need to prioritise and juggle and hopefully not drop the balls!
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I remember when she said that. Fantastic quote! Thanks for reminding me
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If I didn’t carry my balls in my handbag, I’m sure I’d drop them regularly…
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I read Anne-Marie Slaughter’s essay and felt relieved. RELIEVED I tell you. And a little bit freed in having a successful sistehood elder tell me it is okay if everything doesn’t come off at once. And by 30. In pony skin pumps.
I didn’t find the essay a betrayal of any kind of feminist movement. Rather, I thought of it more as a softer and more supportive landing waiting for me if I end up deciding to make some compromises after shooting for the moon.
Thanks Lady Slaughter. You’re a pal.
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Lovely response Anika.
I too didn’t see it as a betrayal of the sisterhood but a thought provoking piece on the structural mess we have. We gave girls the ‘dream’ a long time ago, we are only now starting to address the cultural and employment structures to ensure the choices they have are genuine.
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Me too Anika!
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I thought I had it all. Smug about it too – women would always ask me how I did it and how amazing it was that I seemed to have it all under control. I admit I loved the flattery.
Then circumstances changed and I found myself working at home and now available to pick my children up from school every day. We no longer needed a nanny. I can honestly say, it is breathtaking just how much of my children’s lives I have missed out on. It was only from this place that I was able to fully comprehend just how much I actually missed.
I have photos from when I came home with my newborn, breastfeeding while simultaneously typing away on my laptop – I used to wear those like a badge of achievement. Looking back on those photos now, I see a woman with a warped sense of balance.
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I think you can have it all, everyone’s idea of ‘it all’ is different don’t forget. I hope one day to continue with my career and to have a kid or two as well. Maybe I’ll get the ‘I told you so’ line one day as well but from where I stand now I believe it’s definitely possible. I know many women who’ve done what I hope one day to do, not all of them are just pretending to cope!
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A bit devastated here that my enormous response to this didn’t go up presumably because of a technical glitch
Will wait til next sleep time to rewrite it.
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Oh no! I really want to read your comment now.
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Trying to repost but its saying its a duplicate post – even though it doesn’t appear
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Got stuck in spam, should be up now!
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Me too. I always like Dee “the voice of reason” Adelaide’s comments.
My long rant on another post was reinstated recently Dee, it may magically reappear yet!
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still trying…..
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I genuinely believe that I am going to have it all but probably through no virtue of my own. I was born smart (nearly finished a law degree), good looking (no shortage of men) and my parents taught me excellent social skills and how to cook like a chef. I feel weirdly guilty about how good my life is going to be because I don’t feel like I have done anything to earn it.
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And now some humility wouldn’t go astray
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What’s there to be humble about? She’s just stating the facts. Some people do start out with a very good hand, you can’t blame them for playing the cards they were dealt.
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Being good looking, smart and a great cook will probably mean an easy life (if all goes well), you’re right. But it isn’t necessarily going to help when you’re faced with the decision of giving up a fantastic career or putting your children in childcare though…
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enjoy it now – you never know what life will throw at you. I had the same opinion as you when I was in my twenties – when you have children and a marriage there is a lot that happens that you can’t control. You might be lucky – but there are no guarantees.
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Enjoy it now mate!!!! I used to think exactly the same as you.
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Admire? I dont admire female politicians who have young kids. When I see them on TV in parliament at all hours I often wonder when they actually get time to see their kids. I think its sad. I admire Natasha Stott- Despoja for being brave enough to step away and admit it was too hard. You can do both but its impossible to do both well at the same time. People who think they can are looking through rose coloured glasses.
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They are the lucky ones. Their kids are often with them. They have a fair degree of flexibility. They get paid well enough for a nanny.
Its the cleaners and personal aids and seamstresses I feel sorry for working all hours.
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Sure, they get paid well and Nannies can make life much easier for them. But for most kids routine and being at home in their own bed is what they crave. Especially once they start preschool and school. Being dragged to Canberra to be with mum while she’s working isnt an ideal or very stable childhood.
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Sure a nanny can make it easier, but kids crave routine and their own bed at home. I just dont think it would be a great life for their kids.
And yes the double standard does suck, but women are the ones who give birth an breastfeed and most kids want mum when they’re sick.
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Again with the breastfeeding and birth thing. Do you think women reproduce asexually or something?
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Dee, I think you’re stereotyping and generalising.
You see, my mum was the local mayor for a while (as well as being a very successful business owner). When we were little (when she was just the successful business owner) we had a nanny. When we were older, I was about 13, my sister was about 11 and my brother about 6, she became the mayor. We were in school most of the time during the day when she was working.
BUT… those kinds of jobs never stop. You’re doing them 24/7. Whenever we went ANYWHERE with mum (apart from away on interstate holidays), she was working… and sometimes it wasn’t her fault. People would come up to her in the shopping centres or at our sports games etc to complain or tell her what the local govt should be doing.
At least when the cleaners and seamstresses and personal aids finish work, their work is finished. They’re not going to be hounded by people wherever they go. They’re not going to have to watch what they say, and make sure they (and their family) put up a good front.
Did my mother have it all? For a short time, maybe. From an outside perspective. But she (and we) sacrificed a LOT for her political and business careers.
Honestly… I think Julia Gillard has the right idea. She wanted to have a top political career, so she chose to forego having children.
Yeah, I think there has to be a choice. Jobs might work with children, but fast-moving careers, nope.
Feminism shouldn’t be about women having to balance the two, but women being free to choose between the two, and giving every amount of support to make their choices!!!
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Yes I was generalising.
I’ve worked in politics and worked alongside those women. I didn’t mean to insinuate they didn’t work hard or long hours! And the nights and functions and endless communication. Absolutely.
But I think we get caught up in the reality of a small number of women who work in high profile positions or high power positions working long hours. I won’t resile from the idea that they are better off than the lowest paid in our community juggling work and family.
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There is no question that parliamentarians who are mums are balancing an incredibly heavy load. But I don’t understand why this comment should be any more applicable to them than their male counterparts. When a bloke goes to pick his daughter up from ballet or takes an afternoon off work with a sick son – we all think he’s a hero. A mum does it and she’s just doing her job. It’s the double standard that makes my blood boil.
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“When I see them on TV in parliament at all hours I often wonder when they actually get time to see their kids”
Probably when the male politicians with young kids get to see *their* kids.
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I think the definition of having it all depends on the person.
For me “having it all” means being happy and having someone to share my life with. I’m halfway there, I’m currently happy and working on the second part.
If it came down to choosing between career and family, family would win. I don’t have a career, only a job, so for me it’s a no brainer.
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You can’t have it all, something always has to give. You just need to prioritize. Being a mother with little ones and working in a powerful career role will always affect your children. Those mothers who are selfish will not care and will continue their high flying career at the expense of their little ones. The good mother will sacrifice and put her children’s needs first. Those that get all fired up will be the ones feeling internal guilty and try to justify their reasons.
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What about the good father – will he sacrifice his career and put his children first?
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The good father doesnt give birth and cant breastfeed for starters….
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Children are usually breastfed for a maximum of one to three years. Do you know any three year olds who have finished school, have their own jobs and apartments already?
There’s plenty of time left in a kid’s childhood after they’re weaned for dad to jump in.
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For one child, maybe.
But I know my mum… had one child. Then about 2 years later got pregged up again. then about 3 years after that got pregged up again.
She kept working through the whole lot…
BUT – that’s, like, 9 years of “effected ability”. If a woman took paid maternity leave with every child (which isn’t even that much time), that’s going to take a big enough chunk out of her working life that it will severely limit her career advancement anyway. (unless she only has one child).
She could go back to work straight after giving birth, and leave the father to look after the baby… but is she going to be physically and emotionally up to it? (Good on her if she is… but I’d hazard a guess most women wouldn’t).
What kind of careers would let you just “suspend” your advancement for that long, regularly, without any penalties? Not many. Jobs, maybe. But not careers.
(If I ever do end up having a kid, I’m going to have to do what my mother did, and take as little time off as possible, and take the kid to work with me straightaway… but considering my hubby and I work together in our own business, we’ll BOTH be looking after it. Is that feminist enough for you?)
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Yep, that sounds feminist enough for me Renae.
In all seriousness I wasn’t having a go. The reality in my situation is that I am the breadwinner. After mat leave is over, its hubby that will reduce his hours/alter his career to accommodate our children’s needs, while I work to pay the mortgage and bills. He is just as capable as me at childcare, so why not.
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I had a teacher in high school who had 4 children while I was there. She was always either pregnant or on maternity leave. Everyone dreaded having her because we knew it meant a disrupted year in her class with relief teachers. I know its not very supportive of me to say that but its the truth.
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I’m not sure why that means he can’t make career sacrifices and put his children first, or rather that society doesn’t expect him to make such sacrifices. There is a prevailing view in society that if a woman has a career then her kids are missing out, or she is being ‘selfish’. That view does not (in general) apply to men. Women’s responsibility for child-rearing extends far beyond the age of breast-feeding. For example, if a child gets injured at school and needs to be picked up, the mother will be called first. There is just an expectation that it is mainly the woman’s responsibility and I think we need to question why that is.
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No, but he could scale back his hours, change careers, be a stay-at-home-dad, once the child is in kindergarten or has started primary school. The good father could be doing the school run and volunteering in the canteen and watching the inter-school sports carnival.
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Maybe when we start making it a more viable option. My husband works in a male dominated industry, and part time is not really an option. Nor are 40 hour weeks. Or weekends off. I think this is common for a lot of men – we see a few stay-at-home-dads but not many part timers.
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Excellent point, Missy.
Anonymous, I think it is unfair to label women who wish to continue their careers after having children as ‘selfish’. I don’t have children so I can’t offer my own experience, but I don’t believe that the decision to keep working or not is made lightly. Furthermore, women do not stop being people once they become mothers. They still have opinions, intelligence and ambitions. One can still work and put her children’s needs firsts. And speaking of needs, what about what the woman wants for herself? Mothers are entitled to do things they want to do, and this does not make them selfish.
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Meh.
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Thanks for that insightful contribution.
Do you feel that the subject has no relevance? Has been done to death? Is badly articulated? Believe it or not, I’m actually interested by your apparent apathy (ironic, I know).
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Has been done to death and quite frankly I’m tired of the sanctimony.
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My mum had/has a high flying career and I’m pretty normal.
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Probably beats my mother who is autistic and couldn’t get a job, spent a lot of time depressed and resenting the world because they ‘hated’ her.
But I turned out ok – tough, but ok. And am doing a reasonable job balancing my family and career.
And to all of those who say ‘why don’t we see more fathers working part time’ – not all men are best placed doing this. My husband has a job that is happy to see him leave at any moment when we have a family crisis (like last term when #2 broke his nose and he met us at RPA so he could take the rest of the kids home and I could stay with #2. He could have stayed, but I’m better at hugs for sad boys, and he wanted to do dinner with the other 3). But, for our family, he is happier when he has lots of work interaction, while I cope better having a greater balance of kid interaction.
Every family is different though, and each should find their own balance. Please don’t beat up on the men, who are (usually) doing their best as part of a whole family unit.
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You and you’re mother sound like amazing women!!
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Wow Anonymous I impressed with your foresight and ability to intrinsically know what my daughter needs so that you could make your sweeping assumption that because I work full time I am being selfish at her expense.
In reality my daughter is a highly active and intelligent child who loves lots of stimulation and people to interact with. I, however, am a much more reserved introverted type of person. During my holidays when I have my daughter home with me she often gets bored and frustrated. At childcare she has lots of other children and adults to interact with as well as a range of fantastic scheduled activities that are developmentally appropriate. She also has a stable fantastic carer (at her childcare) with whom I have a great collaborative relationship with and together with my husband we make up her world. Unfortunately we do not have her grandparents close by to help with care, but to be honest I think she is probably getting a lot more out of childcare than some kids I know that are cared for my family members (including their own parents).
So I have a child who:
Is consistently happy and joyful
Is ahead on all aspects developmentally (at the moment anyway, these things are changeable)
Has fantastic connections and relationships with myself, my husband, extended family and community members
Is fed healthy food
Is learning good values from ALL her carers
Is loving life
Has a Mum who is happy and fulfilled and gives her 100% every moment they are together.
Please do not assume that all situations are the same or even remotely ressemble your own experience. Sure, I acknowledge that a mother that works full time on a career may not be what other children need. But children are as diverse as adults, they do not all need the same thing. A good mother is one that knows her child and her family and makes the best decision for them. Good mothers come in ‘all shapes and sizes’.
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“good mother”? give me a break.
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