It has been almost impossible to find work…
Dear Mamamia
I’m 34, female, married and childless.
I am a former professional from the mining industry.
And I cannot get a job.
It has been almost impossible to find work, not only in my field (when there have been positions advertised) but anywhere, here at my new home on the Sunshine Coast. I have applied for work at supermarkets and banks and, well, anywhere really.
I wasn’t even getting to the job interview stage. I was told that I haven’t been given work because I can’t handle certain things, and the other candidate was given the role because ‘he’ had more experience in a certain field. Rejection after rejection, I never gave up. I still applied for job, after job, after job.
Finally I was asked for a job interview. It went well.
I was then asked back to meet the director of the company, who was a very pleasant man, although a little distant and vague. During the job interview he asked me, “Do you have children?” I said, “No, no I don’t. I have dogs!”
He then went onto ask me, “Are you planning on having children?”
This question, to be honest, really shocked me. What if I say yes? I won’t get the job. That’s how he made me feel.
But what if I say no? And then I have children later? Would I get sacked? Is it even his business?
The thing is, I married a man who is wonderful but we cannot conceive naturally.And as I haven’t been able to get work, this has eaten into our savings and we cannot afford IVF treatment. So really this was a subject I didn’t want to talk about with someone I didn’t know…
So I said, ‘Well actually, I was unwell a few years ago and there is a good chance that I won’t be able to have children!’ (There is an element of truth to that. I have had cervical issues and surgery and I have to have more tests in a few months!)
I suppose the reason I said this was for this guy to put his manners back in and to learn to never ask a woman a question like this again. It did make him apologise and sit up and listen to me.
And then I was offered the job… and I said yes.
But I’m still bothered. Why is it even appropriate for someone to ask this during a job interview?
I don’t believe it is. I was so disappointed, and then became a little emotional. So even though I got into a man’s world in mining which I loved, did I only get there because I was seen as a low-risk woman who wasn’t going to go off an have babies?
What would you say if asked this question in a job interview? What advice would you give to other women who are going for interviews who may face the same questions? Would you have taken the job, if offered?
Comments
261 Comments so far
The question of children was asked of me in a recent interview. I was also asked what age were my children when I went back to work. The interviewer then told me she was back at work 7 days after giving birth. I answered her question with confidence ” I don’t see the relevance of having or not having children to this position.” I wasn’t too perplexed about not getting the job. I don’t think I could work for an organisation who places values on working their staff to oblivian.
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I thought it was illegal for an employer to ask these types of questions due to unfair discrimination. You can in fact choose to not answer but then you would be forever wondering if that was the reason why you didn’t get the job. Its disappointing to see that these kind of question are still being asked even when they shouldn’t be.
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In NZ I’m pretty sure employers are not allowed to ask that question. I’m incrediably lucky with my employer – I was approached about working with her company (a different division of a larger parent company I already worked with) when i had been trying unsuccessfully to get pregnant for some time. Her company was small, tight-knit, and something I really wanted to be a part of, but I also didn’t want to leave her in the lurch if I was to get pregnant. I was really honest and told her that while I really wanted the job, I might be a short-stayer as I really wanted a family. She explained she had two kids herself, and said “look at my team: all the female employees are either mothers, pregnant, or in that age bracket where it’s a strong possibility”. She takes a much broader look at who she hires because she thinks of employees long-term (several team members had worked with her at previous organizations). I took the job, and several months later fell pregnant. My boss was one of the first people I told, and she was thrilled for me.
When my maternity leave was coming to an end we had a big discussion because I didn’t feel ready to return to full time work, and i was keen to try for another baby given my past troubles conceiving. She has been completely supportive – changing my role to do work that I can manage from home when my daughter naps (or at night/weekends), and taking a genuine interest in the fertility treatment I’m currently going through.
I realize how unusual and fortunate this situation is, and she completely has my loyalty in return. I really appreciate that she took my broader career into account, rather than just focussing on what she’d do for 12 months of maternity leave.
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As I understand it, an employer is not allowed to ask questions like that in the first place. And anyone who does is setting themselves up for a discrimination case.
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As an employer and a woman, it’s a totally stupid question to ask if a female interviewee plans on having children; not to mention entirely inappropriate. No woman can promise an answer either way as circumstances change. Personally I think female employees with children are incredibly loyal, effficient, hardworking and smart. Of 5 employees in our business we have 3 women with children in infants school or younger. It makes school holidays a challenge but it’s totally worth it for the quality of staff.
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A few weeks ago I finally answered the question in the job interviews and stopped them dead too….I have a semi gap in my work history because I’ve been in hospital 5 times in 12 months and 10 days because I’ve had cancer reduction surgery. I then got an email and had to explain that no I don’t have cancer, I was reducing my chances since every woman in my family seemed to get breast cancer I was being proactive.
Thankfully I then had an employment agency manager who then put me forward for the job saying I will never need time off for mammograms or maternity leave…..she actually thought that was a joke.
I got the job, couldn’t start until this week because my chest is full of new stitches again because of a reconstruction revision.
As women we should never be asked questions about our fertility or health that men would not ever be asked.
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also, if I had children and I were asked this question, I would say “yes, I do have children – of what relevence is this to the position, and I hope that this isn’t going to lead to any discriminatory actions during the hiring process”. Really, that’s telling them – you’ve just made your own life more difficult, because you now know information about me that could make your decision discriminatory. And now you have to hire me.
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The question itself of “are you planning to have children”/”do you have children” is not illegal, but to you small business owners that are all commenting that you’d ask this question and discriminate accordingly, be aware that simply by asking the question, you basically have no choice but to hire that person.
If you ask that question to two candidates, and one says yes and one says no, and you choose to hire the one that doesn’t intend to have children, the other has the right to sue you for discrimination.
It’s the same with Facebook stalking – if you, as a hiring manager, Facebook stalk candidates and happen to discover that a candidate is gay/married/pregnant/wants children/is a certain religion or ethnicity – then that is grounds for a discrimination accusation. It’s safer for everyone if you just stick to appropriate questions and appropriate actions. Especially as it’s also discriminatory to not hire someone because they DON’T have children/AREN’T married, etc.
And FYI – parents are great employees, particuarly for small businesses – they need long term stability – as opposed to hiring a single, childfree person who could decide tomorrow that they want to leave and travel the world!
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I feel so blessed that’s work place (local government) not only didn’t ask the question, but also didn’t hesitate in offering maternity leave when I fell pregnant after only three months’ employment. Needless to say, I’ve given them everything I could ever since!
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Much as we’d all like to live in a perfect world, we also need to be mindful that our actions do impact on others.
While a corporation can more easily accommodate maternity leave disruptions, it has a huge impact on smaller organisations.
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I recently met with a director about a assistant position. He asked for my age (31) and straight out asked if I plan to have children to which I felt the need to (lie) and reply with loaded assurance that it really wasn’t on the cards in the near future though I did want to have a family some day way down the track. I understood why he was asking, he is running a business and would like to avoid finding temps in the absence of his assistant out on mat leave – it can be disrupting to a business – I get that, doesn’t make it at all OK for him to ask. His question put me in a very uncomfortable position and needless to say I am still in my current position and much happier since I investigated with HR just how accomodating my company is for working mothers.
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Completely agree that this should not be asked. I recently started a new job and had to complete an information package along with the contract. In this questionnaire it asked if I was currently pregnant or planning on a baby within the next 12 months. I didn’t complete it immediately, however I was unable to start work until i had.
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As more & more companies offer paid paternity leave, this is a question that should (or shouldn’t) be asked of male candidates as well…?
I was once asked at an interview “When did you do your HSC ?” (i.e. how old are you ?)
My witty reply was ” I was educated in New Zealand, we don’t have HSC there” (i.e. read my resume, you ignorant pillock)
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I think the line between professional and personal is blurred when it comes to this type of question. On the one hand, it is incredibly direct and confronting, as the letter above demonstrates.
But on the other hand, employers have a kind of “duty of care” to their company, which means they want to try and keep the bottom line and future in mind at all times.
Having a baby is a big deal, it changes your whole life (not that I speak from experience, but I am coming from a place of admiration/respect for parents). That includes your working life, so to some extent I can see why employers feel the need to ask that question.
But if it’s going to be asked, then it should be asked of both male and female job candidates (being a father is a big deal too). I also think the way you ask questions that toe the line between professional and personal is important, eg “what are your plans for the next 5-10 years, in terms of work and lifestyle?”.
That way people have more of a choice when they answer, instead of being put on the spot by a closed question (“do you want to have kids?” etc).
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Years ago when in London I had a boss offer to sponsor my
Visa, only he withdrew the offer a couple of months later after I was sick (with the flu) and then had a series of drs appointments for unrelated tests in my heart. He suspected I was pregnant or trying to become pregnant and admitted this at my farewell drinks, after I’d had to find another job in order to get a visa and stay in the uk.
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Ahh this makes me SO grateful for my wonderful company. We’re a huge Australian Plaintiff law firm and so many of the partners and Practice Group Leaders are women – a number of whom recieved big promotions just before or after taking maternity leave. I feel so supported by my company, and as a result I work extremely hard for them. I think they attract some truly brilliant people because of their flexibility and their interest in their employees lives and happiness. Thank you wonderful company xx
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As it happens of all the staff I’ve had take parental leave, the one who was off the longest (18mths) was a male. My husband and I also shared the parental leave period. You never can tell.
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I always think honesty is the best policy. If I want to work for someone I want them to be a company with people who I can communicate easily with.
When I went for my last big interview when I was 25 and engaged I was asked what my plans for my future were. I told them I hoped to have children when I was in my early 30′s and I wanted to be a fulltime mum. Career suicide some may think. To me it meant they knew they were employing someone honest who would do their job and committ to it for 5 or so years who was not a career animal who would not be constantly chasing new offers elsewhere or that my boss had to look over his shoulder because I wanted his job. It worked.
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“They can’t ask this” – but they sometimes do. I can really relate to this article, I’ve been asked straight out “Are you married? Do you have children?” in interviews – when you really want the job you’re not going to jump up and down and shout out “that’s discriminatory!”. I also felt like I was overlooked for positions when I was 32 married no kids (this would have generally been known in my industry) as they may not have asked but assumed I’d be soon off having babies. During my interview for a promotion in my current company the boss joked that I should “keep my legs closed” if I got the role (inferring I was not to run off and have babies) and I answered “I have no intention of falling pregnant”. Fact was in I was in the process of an adoption but that was none of his business. I now recruit in my position and speak to other industry people who recruit – there are definitely prejudices there, people who don’t employ single mums or women they think will have kids / more kids. It’s a man’s world in this respect. When I recruit I inform of all the requirements of the job (including the occasional early meeting / Saturday roster and ask “is there any concern in being able to fulfill those aspects of the role?”. That’s the best I can do to ensure I’ve got a dedicated employee who is not later going to claim parental responsibilities or other as a reason they can’t fulfill the job requirements.
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I think that sounds perfect! It makes it clear, really, that you’re trusting the employee to not apply for or accept a job this is going to make their own work-life balance nigh-on impossible and cause ridiculous stress – or to accept and deal with the consequences for their life, health and family if they do. I think this is truly the best you can do as an employer!
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That makes perfect sense. If the job does require out of hours attendance its important for everone involved to be aware of that and to decide whether or not their family situation is compatible with work requirements.
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Thanks for those comments, afd and chillax. It’s how I finish all my interviews, so that I’ve disclosed everything (eg leave embargo periods) and given them the chance to do the same. Some choose to talk about their kids at that point, but they don’t have to, I don’t mind if they do or don’t have kids / are single parent / gay / divorced whatever as long as they can do the job and all it entails! And if it makes them rethink the role in terms of what’s involved and what they can commit, then that’s good too!
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My husband was asked a similar question in an interview. He was asked if he was a ‘family man’. We still don’t know what the intent behind this question and he had no idea how to answer it.
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Really? I have to say I’m surprised.
Men have been asked that for generations. And faced the same ‘discrimination’ that now causes women such outrage.
Maybe men don’t discuss secret men’s business and bleat about how hard done by they are. Maybe they just get on with it.
When hiring, a family man was preferable to a single man. More settled, less likely to shoot through, more reliable and of a sober disposition.
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So I wonder if it’s a case of a ‘family man’ works for you as a man but a ‘family woman’ doesn’t work for you as a woman?
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Ha ha. Can you imagine the question ‘are you a family women?’
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I’d never considered the more stable idea. We couldn’t work out if they were asking if we had kids, (we didn’t ) if we were planning to have kids (one day but not for a few years), if he was single, in a relationship or gay? And to be quite honest what did any of this have to do with his ability to do his job, teach? Although the ‘best’ question was ‘do you come from an educated family?’ he didn’t want a job with this employer after that and was going to refuse the position. Sometimes the questions that you’re asked can back fire and you realize the true nature of that employer, their loss.
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As a small business owner who employs 3 hard working Aussies, I think those who have never run their own business need to understand that the success of their business is their life. It pays their bills, their mortgage, their kids school books. And most small business owners struggle as much financially as employed people.
What I strongly believe is that the government needs to support small business owners in the costs associated in covering maternity leave situations. If one of my staff who is paid $50,000 goes on maternity leave for 12 months, it will cost my business and additional $25,000 in addition to the $50,000 that I’ll need to pay a temp for 12 months. That $25,000 can cripple a small business.
It is not the business owners fault – they do what they think is best. However, the government should be supporting SME’s in the recruitment and training costs.
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Gosh Andrea, this rings so true. About 5 years ago my small business (14 staff, very tight finances) went through a period where, wait for it, four accounts people – one after the other, like dominos – went on maternity leave in the space of 10 months. Every single person I hired, with a matter of weeks or months, announced their pregnancies. Because it was a high stress position, they all left well before their due dates (totally understandable). But the financial impact on the business was utterly massive, not to mention the disruption of frequently having gaps in the role. This was the person who paid the salaries, who paid the suppliers, who made sure our invoices were being paid. It literally nearly closed the business down. There needs to be some support.
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I know a small business that won’t hire women who are “likely to want kids”…. Hence why they are my FORMER employer!!
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How about everybody be upfront about things? Most employers don’t want a life time commitment but it may be very inconvenient if the person who gets the job leaves after 6 months because they are pregnant and have not told the employer. other people might be happy to have someone for a short time if they are excellent at what they do- worth keep a job for.
I would be rather put out is someone did not tell me they were pregnant when I employed them. It all goes both ways.
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That is discriminating and it is illegal not to hire someone because they are pregnant or might be pregnant at some point in the future.
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But if someone is already pregnant when they take a new job they’re not entitled to maternity leave. They need to be in that job for 12 months to qualify, so its counter productive for both parties.
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Bad luck, the costs involved with replacing someone on maternity leave can, for a small business owner, be the difference between a profit and a loss for that year, in which case the owner/boss will be working for less than the employees.
I’d discriminate too if it was going to cost me.
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I had quite the opposite experience with a very well known mining company. I found out I was pregnant while interviewing for a senior level role. It was not planned but it was very welcome. Despite it being very early days, I immediately contacted the company to let them know. My rationale? While I knew I had no legal obligation to provide this information, I put myself in the shoes of the hiring manager (as I have been in those shoes myself before) and decided that if they wanted me then I wanted to start off on the right foot with them. If I were the hiring manager, I’d be pissed if someone took a job and then announced they were leaving less than 12 months later. If they gave me the foresight, then I could plan ahead for their absence. Forewarned is fore armed. Anyhoo, the company congratulated me, told me I was their preferred candidate and that this didn’t change anything. I subsequently got the job and left 6 months later to have my bub. There is no doubt that some companies have discriminatory practices but sometimes it could also simply be that the other person (male or female of non-child bearing age) is simply better qualified.
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Isn’t it illegal to ask that?
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Yes it is. However still some idiotic managers who have zero skill in interviewing manage to ask questions to illegal. Being that those questions are illegal, I would advise anyone being asked an illegal question to LIE LIE LIE and answer the question in the way you think would best get you the job.
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Definitely illegal, it’s surprising someone would be silly enough to ask this outright when they can generally find other grounds not to hire someone. See http://www.humanrights.gov.au/pdf/sex_discrim/pregnant_productive/part_b.pdf
I feel so lucky that my (male) boss is totally supportive of my pregnancy, and in fact sees women with kids who return to work as the hardest workers of all (and very likely to not be looking for other work!).
What a horrible experience.
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To be honest if I was asked that question in a job interview, I would say ‘no children are not in my plans at the moment’. Even if they were. Because that’s what they want to hear in order for you to get the job, if I did become pregnant then they can’t fire me because of it. That’s illegal – plus it could be an accidental pregnancy so I’d be none the wiser.
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Me too. I would have absolutely no problem lying to someone who asked me that. By asking they are making it very clear that they are all about making money and the company’s self interest so why should they expect anything less than a similarly self interested response from me?
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I think it’s okay. If I was running a small business and needed someone to fill a role, then that person worked for a few months then took six months maternity leave (for which period I’d need to hire someone short term, so the new Mum gets her job back) I’d be left out of pocket and worse off. If it’s a government position or at a large corporate it’s not so bad.
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OK, so you’re running a small business. That means you have legal obligations.
For example, if one of your employees was injured at work, you are obliged cover their medical expenses, and cover their position with another employee, amongst other things.
If your business isn’t financially viable to cover the cost of the humanity of your staff, then you shouldn’t be running a business.
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Nicki, clearly you have never had any experience running a small business.
Those of you who are public servants or employed by big business are in a very different position to many others.
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It’s not ok. It’s discrimination.
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I thought you generally had to work for a company for a year before you were entitled to any maternity leave?
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Exactly, these wowsers commenting on here are getting ahead of themselves. You’d get 12 months service from an employee before they take parental leave. From memory the general length of employment for non pregnant employees isn’t much more than 12 months anyway… particularly in small business!
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I hope they also asked
“Are you planning on getting cancer/ having a horrific accident/ caring for your sick or aging parents/ having a mental health episode/ partner getting posted overseas any time soon?”
There are many interruptions to work and life, not just babies
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The difference is having children is generally planned so asking the question has some chance of yielding an answer. Also the financial andlegal impact on the employer will generally be higher with an employee’s pregnancy compared to the other scenarios.
My understanding is its simply illegal for an employer to ask about plans for children during an interview. So previous prospective employers were probably just making an assumption. A bit ironic that breaking a law intended to protect women from discrimination led to a woman actually getting employed.
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Unscheduled leave due to things like prolonged illnesses are actually more expensive and difficult to cover than planned and anticipated leave like maternity leave.
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The amazing thing is… I actually remember my mum (could be called a feminist, although she was always more about just doing things rather than talking about them and fighting for them… anyways, at the time she was running a large business, was also the mayor of our local city council, and raising 3 kids) about 12 years ago, saying that paid maternity leave and a strong “maternity leave entitlement” culture was going to end up in this kind of thing happening – women being prejudiced against in the job market because they were of “child-bearing age”.
She said it. Now it’s happening.
The answer? I don’t know. As a self-emloyed woman, I’m not going to be able to take maternity leave even if I wanted. As an employer, I’m probably lucky that we’re in a very male-dominated industry and I’m a lot less likely to encounter women wanting to fill our positions. If I do, I hope that I will judge them on their qualifications, talent and experience, not their gender or reproductive capabilities. I hope that I can offer enough flexibility for parents of either gender to do what they need to do, provided they don’t take advantage of it.
Let’s face it, kids are really important, they’re our future.
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How old are you?
It wasn’t that long ago that women were expected to leave the workforce once they married.
If neither you nor your Mum could see how “saying that paid maternity leave and a strong “maternity leave entitlement” culture was going to end up in this kind of thing happening – women being prejudiced against in the job market because they were of “child-bearing age” isn’t (prolonged) resistance to the old status quo, then that’s terribly sad.
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Not every industry asked married women to resign, in fact I suspect there is an element of urban myth about its prevalence.
Luckily for me, I know quite a few genuine trailblazers. Women in their 80s who have several degrees and doctorates each, who have had careers and raised children.
The outstanding feature of these women is that they just did it. No sense of entitlement, no asking for government handouts all the time, no expectation that the world owed them and no precious tirades about misogyny.
If a man stepped out of line they put him in his box and kicked it shut without flouncing off to the anti discrimination board.
Women have forged ahead in Australia since colonial times, not in the last generation, not since Germaine Greer made it fashionable.
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Such an interesting post.
At forty-mumble and unlikely to have children unless a miracle in the biblical sense were to occur (and I really mean that!), it was really interesting to watch my would-be-interviewers try to gauge:
a) how old I was, and
b) whether the aforesaid miracle might actually occur?
It didn’t help them much that I don’t always look or even act my age. I must have had ‘childbearing possibility’ written all over me.
Boy did they step around the issue – trying to see if there were any telltale ‘gaps’ in my work history (there weren’t), or tell tale dates about my education (again, no – recent and postgraduate, so no clues there). Like mscate below, I wondered whether I should let them (and myself) off the hook and just SAY it.
The whole thing was farcical – but I got the job, and it’s a fantastic place to work!
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well its illegal for them to ask, so i dont know what id say
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It’s illegal to recruit or not recruit someone based on their family situation (check the discrimination legislation). Asking this question would imply this gentleman does such a thing. Definately a no no.
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A bit on the fence on this one. On the one hand I know working mums who deliver far more than others (in at least some cases because I think they feel they owe the company) but on the other I have seen women (and of course men in different circumstances) who extract everything they can get from maternity leave and then don’t come back.
I can see why employers might be reluctant. It is a hassle to employ someone, get them to the stage where they are useful (more than a few months for most), have them leave, find a replacement and then start the cycle again. I can see why if not approve some people deciding it’s all too hard and pick someone whom they think is not going to be in that position.
But one thing that strikes me about this post is that as far as I can see she got the job because, inappropriate as the question was, it suggested her taking 12 months off was unlikely. I wonder if she missed out on previous jobs because she couldn’t be asked that question? One untintended consequence of not allowing the question to be asked is that all women between 25 and 25 are going to be seen as potential maternity leave departures and thus have their employment prospects hindered. If I was a woman of that age I suspect it would be worth my while indicating in some way that children were not on the agenda – presumably it’s not illegal for me to do so even though it would be for the employer to act on the information.
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I am 28, with 3 kids. I am also a full time uni student and 4 months ago started a job where I work 3 full days a week.
The question of children (or uni commitments) was never raised during hiring process. I drop them off at daycare in the morning and pick them up after work in the evening. There are no issues and everyone is happy.
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I admire you! I only have two kids and am not working at the moment or studying (planning to later on) and still struggle some days
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Of course it’s ok to ask the question.
What is the point in employing a person who, when interviewed, is also planning to cost the company more money than the other person to be interviewed.
Businesses are just that, they exist to make money for the owners, and it would be remiss of the owner to employ someone who will increase the costs of the company. It is exactly the same as asking a bloke if they expect to be at the same company in 5 years.
Life isn’t always fair. Live with it.
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I don’t agree. If it costs so much for the business to keep someone employed, than imagine how much it costs the taxpayer and business to have someone on unemployment benefits for a period of time. You can’t have it both ways. And no I will not live with it.
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Its ok to ask the question but it is illegal to discriminate against someone on the basis of their answer to that question.
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Perhaps the business owners should “live with it”. I am so glad I am self-employed and don’t have to put up with the unpleasant attitudes so many employers seem to have.
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Until men start feeling the push to also work part time after having kids this issue is not going away any time soon.
Wouldn’t it be great if we had mandatory paternity leave?
But I suppose we had better get the basics right first with better maternity leave provisions for women in the private sector.
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I can see this from both sides. Its none of their business. But. Recruiting and training staff costs a lot of money. Small businesses often really struggle with this sort of expense so having staff go on maternity leave, return part time or leave completely can create added stress on a business and other staff. Having kids though is a part of life so it is a shame there isnt more understanding out there, but i guess employees and employers both have their own needs and need to make the right decision for themselves.
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My question is, if it is not unlawful to ask an employee if they have plans to have children or have their own children, but it is unlawful to not hire someone based on that answer, how is an employee ever going to know that they were not hired because of their answer. Its not like an employer is going to be upfront with you about it.
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Well, that’s really the crux of it isn’t it? I think the above is actually a vey unlikely scenario. No employer who actually has any knowledge of the discrimination legislation would blatantly come out and ask the question. As you see below, many employers simply use the “young, married, female” equation and punt you from the start.
But having said that, not all employers are like that. Mine weren’t and there are many out there that aren’t as well. Find those ones and stay with them for grim life!
But scare the crap out of the ones that do say it with a “can you say that question again so I can write it down. I just want to make sure I get the words right for when I make a complaint to the ombudsman if I don’t get this job”.
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I don’t agree with it as a female. However, I do from an employer point of view as I own a small business and will not hire females of child bearing age due to the fact I cannot afford to pay maternity leave. But also because our business is labour intensive and I need males to work in the warehouse etc. Plain and simple. It’s my business and my choice who I hire.
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You do realise you don’t “have” to pay maternity leave, right?!
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You do not HAVE to provide maternity leave pay. The standard 18 weeks is paid entirely by the government.
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This doesn’t make sense – you aren’t obliged in Australia to pay maternity leave – the gov’t pays 18 weeks of leave to your employees – you don’t have to pay them a cent. You just have to guarantee they can have their jobs back after 12 months.
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And at the end of the 12 months she has to sack the person who replaced her for the time she was on maternity leave, sfter paying for the training and the time that they were non productive. There are costs other than the paid maternity leave that are encountered by a business.
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As far as I’m aware positions have to be advertised as maternity leave contracts and its only for a set period of time so nobody is sacked. However I agree, it is costing the company recruitment and training costs again. And then they do have to allow the employee to return part time if they wish, which can cause extra costs if extra staff are required to cover the shortfall.
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I see plenty of advertisements for temporary contracts to cover maternity leave – not necessarily sacking because it’s all upfront to start off with.
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Smart businesses insure themselves for any loss of productivity due to circumstances such as these.
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Small businesses can’t afford it when they first start up. I could employ someone- I would like to offer a job to someone long term unemployed but the paper work, insurances, work cover, etc turn me off. So I stay up late and do the work myself.
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They are only entitled to have their job back after maternity leave if they have worked there for a minimum of 12 months. Otherwise its at the mercy of the goodwill of the employer.
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I think it’s perfectly fine to be asked. It’s just business and we shouldn’t take it personal.
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The problem is, guest, is that it is hard to NOT take it personally when you have attended your fourth interview in a week, and hold little hope of getting through to the second stage…kind of messes with a persons psyche!
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And similarly, employers shouldn’t be surprised or take it personally when female applicants lie about it. I would definitely lie if asked such a question.
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Hrm. This is interesting, and I do see both sides.
Though I do have a question… I was looking at a form for a job (Just a waitressing job) and one of the questions on the form was asking if you take any medications for illnesses/diseases, eg. depression?
I can understand if people have, say, bad backs, and it could be difficult for them to work sometimes…. But… asking if people take medications for depression… Doesn’t that seem a bit out of line?
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That question is totally out of line also, and could amount to discrimination on the basis of disability (which is defined to include physical as well as psychological illnesses or disabilities).
It is ok to ask ‘do you have any medical condition / are you taking any medication which may prevent you from performing the job’. BUT even then, if the answer is ‘yes’ a prospective employer has a duty to think about what accommodations they may be reasonably able to make.
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It would be better if they asked if you take anything that affects coordination- dropping plates is not a good look for a waitress. I would be offended if they wanted my full medical history.
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Yeah, that’s exactly what I thought. How bizarre. Thanks guys
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I have never been asked this in an interview but shortly after commencing a public service job, my boss asked me if I “planned” on having any more children. I told him I hadn’t “planned” on the last one so anything was possible! Shut him up quick smart!
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Hi everyone, we’re from the Fair Work Ombudsman.
The Fair Work Act protects employees from discrimination based on pregnancy, as well as family or carer responsibilities.
It isn’t unlawful for an employer to ask if a prospective employee has, or plans to have children. But it is unalwful for them to refuse to hire someone based on their answer.
Discrimination can be a complicated issue, but we have lots of information available on our website to help you. Find out more information here http://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment/discrimination/pages/default.aspx.
If you think you have been discriminated against, by your employer or by a prospective employer, you can tweet us, send us a message on Facebook, or contact us another way via http://www.fairwork.gov.au/contact-us/pages/default.aspx.
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Thanks for the comment. I suppose the difficulty is in proving that that is why one didn’t get the job particularly as it is unlikely to be something jotted down in the interviewers’ notes – just how would one prove that?
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Exactly. I am sure I missed out on a promotion at work (Government Department) because I was pregnant. But there was no way I could prove it. It’s left a sour taste in my mouth though.
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I was asked this once – actually I had one child and was asked if I was considereing having any more. I looked him square in the eye and asked him if he asked the male candidates the same thing. He apologised and I got the job.
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Woohoo good on you!
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it is illegal to ask this question in an interview. the correct response is to say, “i don’t think you are allowed to ask me that.” i had to say that once in an interview. i still got the job.
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Its’ not illegal, just unsavoury.
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Employees are entitled to make their own decisions about what’s best for their careers and family. Employers are equally entitled.
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I’ve never been asked anything like that in job interviews.
That being said, the last one I had was at my current job and I was only 24 when I interviewed. Also, I do work for law firms, so they’re pretty switched on in questions they can and cannot ask.
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not the partner of a firm i knew who asked a woman of indian descent if she planned on eating “all that smelly food in the office”.
shocking!
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I don’t think it is discrimination really. My profession is dominated by females and it is good not to have everyone having babies at once. Small businesses still have to function. I think is is good to have a range of staff old and young, with and without children. If everyone is the same it can ruin the dynamic and flow of the place.
I think everyone discriminates with employee selection. Your thing to find someone who fits in and will work well- My old boss was sick of being the only man at work so he selected a male trainee. I thought that was fair enough.
At least he was upfront about it.
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“Don’t think it’s discrimination really”.
It is actually, it really is.
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According to Fair Work Australia it isnt, it really isnt.
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How about you read what amandarose wrote. The situation she set out is – Everyone discriminates with “employee selection” – is clearly what Fair Work is talking about. It’s just not on.
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Oops, sorry, Anonymoose, this was my reply to you. Confusing that you were being critical of yourself.
My apologies.
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“and it is good not to have everyone having babies at once.”…????
Where do you work? Just so I can avoid drinking the water
I have worked in female dominated workplaces for half of my career, and don’t ever recall more than 2 staff members being pregnant at any one time!
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Haha well don’t come near my workplace then! We have only one man in our team and at one time EVERY WOMAN except me and another girl were pregnant. And we’re a BIG law firm. Three of the women left for good (during maternity leave), two are currently on leave, and one other has the birth coming up. That definitely wouldn’t be the situation if the team were all men. But then, if these women hadn’t been hired the company would have missed out on some incredible minds and fantastic work ethics.
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My profession is dominated by females too. Although I’m not an owner, I’ve done rosters (nurse) and the majority of staff, a fair proportion of child bearing age, manage to staff a ward.
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I’d also add,as a person who chooses to be childfree, I would expect a little bit of give and take in the workplace. I’ve worked in jobs where colleagues with kids always get first dibs of annual leave dates (we can’t all go at once), are given the option to start work half hour late and have a half hour lunch break instead of one hour and other benefits. I don’t mind these accommodations but I would have liked to have the commitments in my life (partner, pets, older brother with schizophrenia) to have relative flexibility.
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I totally agree with you. I get the annual leave weeks the married with kids people don’t want and I get the early shifts as the they conflict with their child care arrangements. I am also the first to get stuffed around when they call in for sick leave when they are at home with a sick kid.
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I agree! We’ve got a busy time at work for the next month, and it’s all hands on deck. In a team meeting the yesterday, my boss suggested that every mother (yes, mothers, not fathers, because they don’t do childcare – duh. This was then corrected by a staff member.) should still leave at 5:30 but that anyone without children should stay as late as necessary. I understand children are hugely important, I was pissed off that my virtue of choosing not to have children yet my time is apparently less valuable. Especially since I get paid significantly less that the parents in my team due to my role!
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That kind of thing is incredibly annoying and unfair. I remember getting stuck finishing a project my boss had been managing but she couldnt meet the deadline because she had to do her daycare pickup. So I was given the job to finish even though I had a birthday dinner for my dads 50th. Luckily her boss saw me and wasnt happy that she had flicked her job to me and sent me home and he finished it and had words with her the next day.
That said, now as a stay at home mum, there is nothing more annoying than people who volunteer on preschool and school committees and then use their work committments as an excuse for not being available to actually do the committee job they volunteered to do. We are all busy, and someone elses time is no less important.
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