BY REBECCA SPARROW
At 9.47 pm last night while I was feeding my six-week-old son, checking my emails and wondering at what point my three-year-old daughter had decided I was on her payroll … my head exploded.
I was watching Germaine Greer ruffle feathers (as she is prone to do) on Q and A and this is what unfolded:
Can’t watch the clip? I’ll give it to you in a nutshell … An Australian feminist icon, a woman who is rightly described as an academic, an intellectual, a trail-blazer, a woman who has spent decades fighting and arguing and agitating for the rights of women goes on national TV and mocks the size of our Prime Minister’s arse.
Oh yes she did.
Are you X&*$%# kidding me?
The fact that Greer had some interesting points to make about Gillard and the media’s role in the dumbing down (and fabrication of) news in this country before she went on to criticise the weight and size of our Prime Minister is irrelevant.
Why? Because that one comment, that one cheap shot, that one moment when Greer decided that it was okay to criticise a woman based on her size, saw everything Greer has fought for over the past thirty years unravel like the yarn of an ill-fated scarf. [ She has spent decades pointing out that a woman's physicality is irrelevant. Her comment last night essentially gave everyone permission to bring 'arse size' back into the conversation.]
Germaine Greer
Last night, Greer took the easy pot shot and feminism paid the price.
And now I’m left wondering what the hell Greer stands for? That’s not rhetorical, I’m asking you. Because clearly supporting and nurturing other women isn’t in Greer’s feminism hand book.
It pains me in part to write this post. Germaine Greer has done much for which I can be grateful. But the truth is that, for me anyway, she is now officially irrelevant. She’s like this crazy aunt who needs to say shocking things in order to get media attention. She’s verging on being all sound bite and no substance. And the Germaine Greer that I have known (through the media and her writings) in recent years has frequently spoken with a nastiness that doesn’t sit well with me.
It just doesn’t.
Not last night. Not when she showed such a lack of compassion in criticising Steve Irwin just days after his death in 2006. Not when she so openly mocks and ridicules those around her.
We get that you’re smart, Germaine. We get it. So stop trying so hard to remind us of your superiority.
To me feminism is all about the fact that women don’t have to behave like Carol Brady (if we don’t want to). That we should feel free to be bold and opinionated and argumentative. That ruffling feathers and standing strong and voicing opinions (even if unpopular) is our right. And thank God for that.
But feminism is also about judging a woman on her ideas, beliefs and behaviours. Not the size of her arse. Isn’t it? ISN’T IT? As for behaving with decency, integrity and compassion … well that’s not feminist. That’s called being a decent human being.
I’d like to say that what unfolded last night saw me handing in my Germaine Greer Fan Club badge. But it didn’t. That’s because I tossed my badge away years ago.
** The sentence in brackets [ ...] above was added at 8am on Wednesday morning to better clarify my point.
Here’s what people were saying about Germaine on Twitter last night:
Tweets in response to Germaine Greer on #qanda
What do you think?
Comments
357 Comments so far
Surely if we are to assess whether her comments were anti-feminist we must apply the appropriate test… if Kevin Rudd wore jackets that were too tight around his hips such that they sat out at an odd angle, would we expect everyone to not mention, and if someone dared, would we espond to such a comment in this way? Of course not.
GG was was simply commenting on something easily caricatured about a public figure who’s public image is lower than desirable… you’d think no one had ever commented/caricatured John Howard’s eyebrows or Kim Beazley’s gut. Important in the running of this country – of course not. Relevant to discussion about public image – somewhat. Now, if the only discussion around Gillard was based on her appearance only, by all means draw attention to the unbalance, however this comment was made in the context of her troubled public image (based on untruths, dumbing down of reports etc.), and therefore not entirely uninvited.
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I think Germaine G comments were spot on all the way…… until she got to the jackets and the big arse…… sad.
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Just a quick note to thank everyone for their comments on this post. You’ve given me lots of food for thought … it’s an interesting issue to discuss.
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Yes I was appalled too. Appalled. I was only thinking recently when reading a piece on sarah jessica parker where she declares she isn’t a feminist and how annoyed I am when I hear that. And now this. And the very next word after Germaine Greer is always Feminist. Yes I think we can add crazy aunt to that. So depressing.
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I don’t think it was said in a negative way at all. It’s true, and whether or not people ‘should’ care about a powerful women’s appearance more than a powerful man’s appearance, they do!
GG wouldn’t have gotten far if she didn’t speak the truth and not care about ruffling some feathers. It’s us, here, who are interpreting her comments as a negative comment on Gillard.
And did anyone notice in the news update after the show that Gillard had a giant crease across her back from her ill fitting jacket?
What about starting a post with some of the insightful things she said, so we can talk about those?
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Shouldn’t the sisterhood be united? Julia has had a hard enough time without Germaine discussing the size of her butt and her dress sense. I really do think we should give Julia a break. She is the first female PM. Which in itself is amazing. Germaine should be celebrating that fact.
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I dont believe women should ever support another woman just because of her sex. That is not feminism, that is sexism. Feminism is about a womans right to have the same opportunities and challenges as a man – its about removing sex-based discrimmination.
That said, Germaines comments about Gillards appearance were nasty and idiotic. The only saving grace of it is that she is nasty and rude about a lot of men too. As an intellectual, Germaine is past her use by date.
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Women should not support other women just for being women. Should all American women have supported Sarah Palin then? Or Michelle Bachmann? Even though many of their positions can be considered anti-feminist?
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Of course women shouldn’t vote for other women just because they’re women. But we should be united about issues like the media constantly harping on about women’s bodies, the size of our bottoms, what we wear – as if that’s more important than what we achieve. I don’t like Julie Bishop, for example, but I think she should be criticised for her policies, beliefs and actions, not for her hair, or her bottom, or her dress sense. Come on people, this isn’t a difficult concept!
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Wow – Germaine came across as so incredibly try hard. Totally lame, Germaine.
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What was she thinking?! We are in the 21st centuray and we have an amazing feminist talking about our female PM’s clothes and body type? VERY dissapointing indeed!
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I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what Germaine said..it was said in a funny, warm-hearted way and I bet Gillard herself would have had a good laugh like everyone else. There was no malice about it.
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If someone told you that you had a big arse and your clothes didn’t look good, even if they said it in a ‘nice’ way, wouldn’t you be upset? I know I would be! She’s still a human being, even if she is the PM, and I don’t know any woman who wouldn’t be upset by a comment like that.
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I saw this too and I totally agree. I was shocked at Germaine’s comment and thought it was a ridiculous thing to say
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I love Germaine. Love her. Think she’s an icon. A living legend. And a source of unspeakable wisdom and power and good for women for decades.
Since before I was born.
As a woman I feel I owe her many debts.
I winced at the arse comment, to be sure.
Lordy, I wish she hadn’t said it and I understand the fallout COMPLETELY.
And I’m not going to defend it (although my Mum is and we’ve been arguing about it all day!)
But do I have to agree with everything Germaine does and says? Does she have to be loving and supportive and nurturing of all women to be a feminist? Do I?
Not in my opinion. Feminism is a broad church. We’re not stepford wives.
Being a feminist doesn’t mean agreeing with everything everyone else who describes herself as a feminist says! Or thinks!
Caitlin Moran similarly rails against this idea of feminism being an exclusive club with all sorts of rules about who can and can’t belong.
You want to call yourself a feminist? Welcome! Let’s pour a glass of wine or a cup of tea and debate things!
Just like we do here at Mamamia……
Love you Bec. xxxx
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Okay, I agree that there are no “rules” to being a feminist. And I don’t think that being a feminist means we have to be all touchy-feely nurturing. I would have no problem with Germaine Greer laying into Julia Gillard over her performance, her policies, her past decisions — all that. But to make a joke about her arse? It’s something I’d expect from Dame Edna Everage. I think the reason it bothers me so much is that GG has based her entire career on demanding women not be judged on the breast or arse size.
Plus the woman is a verbal serial-killer … you can’t tell me that if a man had said the same thing she wouldn’t have savaged them.
PS Please don’t fire me
PPS Please hide this post from your mum!
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My mum still loves you and so do I. Disagreeing makes the world go round!!!
I don’t even disagree with you on all of it.
Someone who I did agree partially with today was Miranda Devine who said that GG trashing JG’s clothes and body opened the gates for others to do the same and HAVEN’T WE BEEN FIGHTING AGAINST THIS for a a long time now?
Agree with that.
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“HAVEN’T WE BEEN FIGHTING AGAINST THIS for a a long time now”
Well, duh. And now I need to go & hide, because if I agree with Miranda Devine, then The Apocalypse is surely on its way.
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I agree there’s no ‘rules’ for being a feminist (thank goodness!) BUT…. if there were I’m pretty sure…
Thou Shalt Not Judge/ Publicly Mock A Woman Based On Her Appearance.
would be close to the top of the list.
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If you’re going to make rules like that they should apply to women AND men. If you want equality, then you can’t make a comment about Howards bushy brows, Beasley’s girth or Abott’s ears or swimwear then get narky when someone brings up Julia’s dress sense.
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Agree. GG was only saying what we’re all thinking. JG has a got a big arse. Cartoonists pick up on it every day, just like they pick up on Tony Abbott’s ears etc. And if she only ditched the jackets it might not be so noticeable. More importantly, what GG said actually reminded me what I had first liked about Julia so she actually did the woman a favour. Anyway, calling GG a crazy old aunt or whatever isn’t very nice either!
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What if having a big arse wasn’t a big deal? Maybe she was saying stop trying to hide it because who cares? I don’t know…conflicted on this one…
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She wasn’t judging JG on the size of her arse, she was simply saying that she doesn’t choose clothes that flatter her and that JG should embrace her big butt.
And no, I don’t think Greer would lay into a man for saying the same thing. She’s said plenty of similar things, about men and women, and not just recently either. It’s just not the kind of thing that would get her ire up.
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I don’t think Greer’s ridiculous comments negate her achievements (past achievements!) for women and feminism. But I think we can and should criticise her comments regarding the Prime Minister. I think everybody expects Germaine to have foot in mouth syndrome these days (occasionally). Trouble is when she’s ridiculous, as a poster child for feminism, that makes feminism look ridiculous. Hey…if even the feminists attack the Prime Minister’s appearance she’s fair game?? Even if she was not malicious in her intent, it is picked up by commercial radio etc and the PM is ridiculed. Its the same crap the PM has had to put up with from day one. Unexpected from a feminist.
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“Do I have to agree with everything Germaine does and says? Does she have to be loving and supportive and nurturing of all women to be a feminist?”
Loving, supporting and nurturing? Course not. Respectful? Maybe. Respectful enough of the Prime Minister of Australia to not steer public debate in the direction of her butt? Absolutely!
Love you Mia (and miss you btw!), but I agree with Bec that the comment was more than just wince-worthy. This is a woman who has been smacked down constantly by EVERYONE. Day in. Day out. A Prime Minister who very early on the country decided was allowed to be ridiculed, demeaned and spoken about with an astonishing amount of vitriol. Policies, politics and performance should be fair game. Humiliating comments on national television about her body shape that cause the audience and no doubt many more viewers to laugh at her expense for something completely irrelevant to her job performance? Personally, I don’t think that’s ok. And coming from someone who commands respect not only gives weight to the comments but helps justify and normalise this sort of talk within the national debate.
It wasn’t a quick slip that GG back-peddled from either. She pushed the point and elaborated. And for what? What possible importance could it have to anything? Oh well, no harm done. The country can just have a nice laugh about the size of the PM’s backside around the watercooler, while she fronts another press conference tomorrow looking self conscious and wooden and we all wonder why.
I don’t care what side of the partisan divide people fall on. I don’t care if you want Gillard gone because you dislike her policies. But COME ON. In a political climate where our PM has every derogatory slur regularly thrown at her, do intelligent, respected people really need to join in on national television? Adding to and thus validating a public discourse dominated by blind insults and disrespect?
Ultimately, I don’t think we can declare someone ‘not a feminist’ because of a 30 second exchange. People are far more complicated. I also agree with Mia that feminism benefits from being a broad church. But I still absolutely think comments like that on a show like Q&A do a lot more bigger-picture harm than we give them credit for, regardless of how benign the intention.
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VERY WELL SAID MIPPY, in capitals!!!
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SPOT on. Yes. This is the point and I think what Bec was saying also.
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I LOVE you and I want to marry this comment!
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I have struggled with the feminist label for many years, especially working in a feminist dominated workplace for over a decade (domestic violence). I don’t disagree with feminist ideas- I do what I do because of my strong sense of social justice. Sexism is not the only injustice in this world (racism and ageism just to name a few).
I am no GG expert but it sounds like she sometimes crosses the line between assertiveness and aggressiveness (which many confuse, even great intellectuals). I think I might read Caitlin’s book sound interesting.
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I don’t see the problem, Germaine just likes to kick a taboo right in the nuts.
Uh oh. I can hear crickets.
Er, should I have said ‘teeth’ then?
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In my experience Germaine Greer says one infuriating thing for every dozen or so interesting, intelligent and iconoclastic things. It’s just the media doesn’t pay much attention to the latter as they’re too busy jumping up and down over the former. I don’t agree with everything she says but she is an extraordinarily intelligent, interesting person who helped change the lives of millions of women and I think it’s a shame she is so little valued in her own country.
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I only wish people were as blown over by her amazing and accurate comments in the same program about racism in Australia and its historical significance…..
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Exactly. If she hadn’t made such a disrespectful and unnecessary remark, the discussion today may have been different. What a wasted opportunity.
GG – she’s all class.
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I highly doubt there would be a mamamia post on anything insightful GG said on Q&A. Or on any other mainstream news/discussion site.
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Too true. And I guess that may be because most mainstream media followers wouldn’t read an article like that.
So, may-beee, GG made the big butt comment completely deliberately so at least she in the mainstream media today? And therefore prolonging her career?
GG – smart lady, but still with no class.
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I love this bit: The interesting irony of today is were I not tdnetaing the lunch, I would actually be demonstrating against the same organisation’s intention to close my local post office in Glebe, Sydney.
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Yes I agree with you justvisiting. Much more difficult to apply critical thinking as opposed to general comment/opinion on such an issue. Better to stick to criticism of appearance in which we can all give our twenty cents worth on whether we agree with GG or not!
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Regardless of what GG said before-hand, to me, it was a disrespectful comment. For me, the whole show wasn’t great last night. Who is that cabaret singer with the ear-rings hitting her mic? And then what was the comment likening porn stars to refugees or something? A few comments from the young lawyer also seemed juvenile and didn’t contribute to the topic.
Switched off eventually.
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‘But feminism is also about judging a woman on her ideas, beliefs and behaviours. Not the size of her arse. Isn’t it? ISN’T IT? As for behaving with decency, integrity and compassion … well that’s not feminist. That’s called being a decent human being.
I’d like to say that what unfolded last night saw me handing in my Germaine Greer Fan Club badge. But it didn’t. That’s because I tossed my badge away years ago.’
Oh, I see. So you don’t like her anyway.
And again with the judging stuff. I must say, we Mamamia posters are just a regular high court convention at times. We judge others, we judge those who judge, the ‘non judgmental’ posters judge the judgers, well, it just fair makes my head spin.
Throw away comment. Media beat up. Yes, Germaine, you were quite right.
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The judging stuff? Oh for pete’s sake … it’s called ‘having an opinion’! This website is all about debating topics and sharing opinions.
And no, in recent years I haven’t liked Germaine Greer. I thought what she wrote about Steve Irwin just days after he died was disgraceful.
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I’ll bite – what did GG say that was so offensive? Steve Irwin was a wildlife botherer – any marine biologist will tell you that stingrays only attack when provoked (hence attacks so rare). I agree its in poor taste to speak ill of the dead, but its hardly disgraceful to suggest he shouldn’t have been interfering with stingrays, even in an irreverent way.
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I love her for saying what she did about Irwin. The guy was a dickhead. The first and only time I ever watched his show he gave a 5 minute speil about how the area he was in was a haven for animals, no humans had been there for decades etc. In the next scene he tackled some poor creature then manhandled it while it completely freaked out, just to get a good shot of it for the cameras. Then he and the crew laughed when he put it down and it raced away as fast as it could. Some animal lover. When he was alive, any talk of conservation was minimal. He was the guy who wrestled with crocodiles, basically a sideshow act. She was right. His sort of nature documentaries, where the goal isn’t to capture real life, but to create drama by antagonising animals, is completely unnacceptable. Honestly, the way he behaved, he was just lucky it didn’t come a lot sooner. What he did was essentially like a little kid pulling a dog’s tail. Eventually the dog will bite back.
Then there was the whole holding his baby up within reach of a hungry croc, which was way worse than the Michael Jackson incident as it put his child’s safety in the hands of a dangerous, unpredictable animal. He still had huge image problems because of that up until his death, when it seemed everyone just forgot all about it.
I’ve always hated the way we rewrite history when someone dies. Germaine Greer just said what many people had thought about Irwin for years. The fact that he died doesn’t change how he behaved in his life, and we shouldn’t have to pretend otherwise. The post-death tributes for people who were deeply, deeply flawed human beings can be nauseating, and Greer’s comments were a breath of fresh air for me.
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I think you missed the point about the judging comment but maybe I didn’t express myself very well.
I don’t think Germaine judged the PM on the size of her arse. I think she made a throwaway comment about ill fitting jackets. If we are going to use the J word, then it was clear to me that Germaine judged Julia Gillard’s performance as the PM based on her achievements, skills and attributes. Then she said she had a fat arse.
That’s not judging.
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I saw Greer speak recently in Sydney at the “F-Word.”
I truly think she is 95% genius, 5% crazy.
The crazy is the bit that gets the press. But I kinda love her, even with the crazy.
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Agree.
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Well said.
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I don’t know very much about gg but what I have seen makes me not think very highly of her. She just seems mean and bitter. I’d rather not be a feminist if I turn out like her. I’m not sure I love jg either but whether her suit fits or her bum is big is irrelevant to me. It might have been a throw away comment but she said it on national tv and should think before she opens her mouth.
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Why on earth do you think that being a feminist might make you like another feminist? Do you think feminism is catching? A bad disease?
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No I don’t think I need to like her to be a feminist I’d just rather not end up bitter and twisted and say horrible things (Steve Irwin comment) about other people. I don’t think saying someone has a large arse seems like the way women should talk about other women in power or for any reason for that matter as it is demeaning and totally unnecessary. I’m not even sure what feminisim means but I’m pretty sure that isn’t it.
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Well if you’re not sure what feminism is I think it’s time for you to find out.
You might want to read more about Ms Greer at the same time. She’s more than just someone who said something ‘mean and nasty’ about the late Steve Irwin.
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I thought it was bloody hilarious.
Can people on here honestly say they don’t critique the clothing and style of other women? Other men? We can all take the piss out of Abbott and his Speedos but when Germaine says the PM has a fat arse all of a sudden we’re outraged.
She said some great stuff about Julia Gillard last night. So she followed up with a comment about ill fitting jackets. Big deal.
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thank-you!! couldn’t agree more. Germaine was amazing on Q&A last night – as was Benjamin Law (women don’t want to be sprayed on….i choked on my cup of tea). I thought the arse comment was funny….and damn it it’s true – those jackets look shocking.
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I totally agree with you rebecca. I watched this last night and was shocked that she would mention the size of anyone’s arse let alone Julia’s. She had a platform to raise so many issues and wasting even one sentence to comment on jackets and arses is a crying shame. Can we have some new feminists please, and not just ms Moran.
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if anything can be taken from this it is that its about time that we stopped taking our outward appearance/ judgement of our appearance as a measure of worth… sista got junk in her trunk… needs a better tailor… that has nothing to do with her ability to do her job… if this comment was made about a man nobody would even blink twice.
Oh and as a fellow pear find it insulting that people think its insulting to point out that somebody has a big arse. hell i do… and i know that storing fat in my thighs and bottom means I’m less likely to develop heart disease… actually… i take it as a compliment… down with gillard’s tailor.
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look… and its not just me…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ImZTwYwCug
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I’m a feminist, but this doesn’t mean I need to be nice and supportive to every woman simply because she has the same chromosomes I do. Putting women on a pedestal is not equality. It is just another type of separatism.
I want equality, and this includes the equality to bollock the fashion choices of our country’s leadership regardless of their gender.
http://the-accidental-housewife.blogspot.com.au/
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I think the difference is that nobody would do this for a man. It shouldn’t matter what she wears or how she dresses for her bodyshape or any other ludicrous thing. She could wear a sack, as long as she runs the bloody country.
If GG makes it ok to diss women for what they wear, then it makes it ok for everyone else to do it. it’s just stuff that does. not. matter.
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Regardless of gender? But you don’t. This is merely justification of your need to be nasty and unpleasant. And probably mixed with an element that thinks its fun to make jokes at the expense of someone you will never look in the eye.
The reality is that men are not criticised for what they wear.
When John Howard had a make over, there was very little comment in the press.
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Blob, I’ve never actually bollocked her, I think she’s great. But if I chose to, I want to be able to do it without it becoming a feminist issue. It would just be one person bagging another person.
And I understand that GG has made her name being a staunch feminist, but that shouldn’t mean she can’t ever publicly express her opinions on a female’s dress sense either. Especially when she does it in a reasonably witty manner, and as part of a speech of support.
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I think that I may have expressed myself badly.
I don’t see this as a feminist issue either.
I do see a lot of comments made (by GG, and in the press) that would never be made face to face. My view is that you should never say anything in this sort of forum that you wouldn’t say directly to a person.
And I think that it is highly unlikely that GG would tell JG to her face that her arse is big. Therefore, cheap laugh.
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Totally agree with you Bec I have no respect for GG now, I just think of her as a Queen Bitch who walks around judging everyone on how they look. She should know better.
What a hypocrite, she has shown herself for what she really is, not a feminist but a show pony who likes to get herself heard at any cost
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Please explain why a comment about a fat arse stops Germaine Greer from being a feminist.
Please explain her hypocrisy.
Please explain why you felt the need to refer to another woman as a Queen Bitch.
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I understand where you’re coming from Bec and I’m the first one to complain when we talk about Hilary’s pant suits and Keneally’s new hair but I’m still not sure how I feel on this one. I think Greer made a lot of great comments about JG and then moved on to make her own personal observation about the tailoring of her jackets and it all went downhill from there.
Is it possible that we get a bit too precious when it comes to personal remarks? John Howard copped a lot of flack over his eyebrows, the way he walked, talked and the size of his glasses. We discussed the size of Kim Beasley’s girth and his need to lose weight.
As women do we need to cop it on the chin and say it’s just part of politics? Or is it our role to try and change the conversation so that nothing personal is ever said?
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Hmmm. Good point, Kirsty … I feel like I don’t know anymore what feminism means …
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Choice. I think that what may define today’s feminism is the ability to choose to NOT have it all, and for that to be okay. Although we have, as feminists, a duty to support our ‘sisters’, I don’t think our duty is to “do it all” (to prove we can have it all) to show that we are making the most of our opportunities or to acknowledge those amazing feminist trailblazers like Germaine.
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For me it’s about equality, and in some ways that’s a mixed bag. If we really want to be equal, then we have to accept the good and the bad that comes with that. Don’t treat comments about JG’s big butt any differently than you would treat a comment about Howards height and bushy brows, Rudd’s Lego-like helmet hair, Beasley’s weight, Abbott’s ears etc.
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Kirsty,
I completely agree with your points, and perhaps if you or I highlighted Julia’s fashion faux pas (is that how its spelt?) it would be ok.
But you and I didn’t spend the past 30 years trying to get women into the political, business, and life arena and out of the 1950′s apron.
If anyone else had of commented on such a trivial issue as her jacket stretching across her backside, it would have been accepted as just another whinge to downplay the importance of our prime minister.
But the worlds leading feminist? No. It was a clumsy attempt at reaching out to the masses. What happened to the woman who earnt a standing ovation last week at the Opera House for her maturity and high emotional IQ? I will always respect GG and thank her for fighting the battles for me before I was born, but her recent comments such as last night on Q+A devalue much of what she’s preached in the past.
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Good point!
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Meh! Mountain…….molehill! I love Germaine Greer, she is a straight shooter not always appropriate or polite but i’m pretty sure that was said about her when she began fighting for women’s rights. Feminists are women too who are allowed to observe someone’s fashion choice, or body size. She didn’t use it to take away from her abilities as PM. She said what she saw and let’s face it she can have a sense of humour even if you don’t agree. My parents are both migrants and the one thing they have both learned from this country is our irreverent humour. I for one hope our traditions continue. I think it’s fantastic that we are talking about it just to keep the pulse of women’s rights still beating but i am a little perturbed that people can believe one little comment can unravel the immenseness of The Female Eunuch. Good grief but i think that is a bigger problem that feminism is a house of cards that can be toppled if we dare have a sense of ribaldry then we are in danger of losing the battle. That we must be serious soldiers AT ALL TIMES!!. If that is the case i am thoroughly disappointed
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wish I could like this more than once!
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I’ve struggled to take her seriously since she suggested we taste our menstrual blood. It’s not just menstrual blood btw. I wouldn’t lick blood off cut fingers etc either.
Over the years I’ve just found some of her comments narky too, unnecessarily so.
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Germaine Greer isn’t exactly an oil painting herself. What Prime Minister Gillard wears and how she looks has absolutely nothing to do with the way that she runs the country (not that I like the way she is running the country). Who cares what she looks like or wears I just want her to get her policies right and stop taxing us to death.
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When all is said and done, and call it what you wish, I think Germaine just made a bit of a faux pas, or slip of the tongue (even though I’m sure she meant what she said!).
I embrace multiculturalism. Love it. But found myself saying the other day, “bloody wogs!”, in response to a frustrating situation I found myself in. I meant it with humour, and actually value the particular cultural trait that I was picking on, but not everyone appreciated my sentiment. Some laughed; others were critical. Those who laughed were from the cultural group I was having a jibe at. Those who told me off weren’t, and were shocked by my comments.
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Ha typical!! i come from wogs and towel heads which i say often and i constantly get told off for using those terms by Anglo-Saxons. I find it amusing that i am not allowed to call myself whatever i want and that the PC police are telling me what i can call myself and my family well Phooooeeee to that.
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Melissa,
You’re a wog AND a towel head? Yet you still have a sense of humour.
That’s worthy of congratulations
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Hmmmmm yes i do and seeing as it was New Years the other day i’m going to let the ambiguous compliment in that post slide. I’m putting it down to a stressful week and an inability to read tongue in cheek in writing. So i say good Nowruz to you sir!! Lets hope that Baba Nowruz brings you pressies like i got !!
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I watched Q & A last night & I think you’ve missed the point, Rebecca.
Germaine mentioned how much she dislikes the jackets that Julia Gillard wears, because they don’t fit her properly. They don’t fit her properly because she has a big arse.
If I remember rightly, after Germaine said that she wishes Julia “Would stop wearing those bloody jackets”, she actually said “You’ve got a big arse, Julia – get over it.”
To me, that’s not bashing the PM about her body shape, or making it a focal point of her ability to do her job. To me, she was encouraging the PM to embrace her shape, “big arse” and all & stop trying to hide herself underneath ill-fitting clothes.
Our PM is a great administrator, but not the best public speaker. Ill-fitting clothes as well as less than desirable oratory skills does make her seem lacking in confidence. It’s probably one of the biggest things working against her, her seeming lack of confidence with her public appearances.
If anything, Germaine has given her a helpful tip on how to appear more confident in the current media climate & the way she’s polling, the PM needs all the help she can get.
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Prior to watching the video, I could definitely appreciate your point, Rebecca. However, having watched it now, I think Germaine was just, in her own classic style making a point we hear from the most realistic and supportive sections of the fashion industry (they do exist, at least relatively speaking!): she should dress for her shape. I believe this is sensible advice (something I used to find easier pre-pregnancy – now I don’t really *know* my shape!). It was put excessively bluntly, but IMO, that’s Germaine!
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I felt she said it in the way someone would say when they are presenting, after a monologue of statements, inject an unexpected comment to lighten up the tone. Add some humour and give a twist in the conversation. Provide a ‘state change’ – from serious to humorous etc.
Whether she ‘should’ say that exact comment or not, given her feminist position is the debatable factor. In that respect I say ok of course not, it isn’t something I would have expected from her and yes a lot of people may believe it is never ok to criticise a woman’s appearance. But I don’t think she meant it spitefully.
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Before I read the others thoughts on this, I want to say… I couldn’t even read past criticise her size… hmmm not what I understood from what she said. If there was criticism, it was about Julia’s choice in clothing or tailor. Ok not necessarily the best forum, but come on! Why are we being so precious over this? Who said that feminists have to coddle each other? Tippy toe and be careful not to make a dig? We are all human, and if you hadn’t noticed the crease in the back of Julia’s jackets, oh well… at least now I know what causes it, cause I get them too!!!
Seriously, if this one comment, joke, wise crack makes you wonder what Ms Greer stands for, well I just wonder how easily you roll on other things…
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I agree its all a bit precious – I’m a feminist (and a long time GG fan) but I reserve my right to criticise politicians’ clothing and apperances! And at the end of the day, its not like we’re discussing a cure for world hunger here either …
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I saw Q&A and agree that the above article lacks context – I thought GG was witty, eloquent and insightful, and the “big arse” was an off-hand comment.
And I’m surprised anyone would think “that one comment … saw everything Greer has fought for over the past thirty years unravel like the yarn of an ill-fated scarf” – what a ridiculous notion! I’m sure the author will never say one slightly silly thing and thereby undo her life’s work …
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Love your work Bec (and how much does it say about our society now that you’re watching politics while feeding a baby and then get to share it with millions of readers?!!)
It’s more of the “look what the angry feminist did” but with the additional slap in the face that is critiquing a woman’s look.
While her inflammatory remarks meant a feminist issue made it to mainstream media, it’s doubtful this will reignite women’s issues in the public sphere and that’s a shame.
I wrote about it too today… http://petajo.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/big-bum-not-germaine-to-the-argument/
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First reaction (whilst watching Germaine last night): “Holy shit Germaine!”
Today’s ponderings: “Is it okay for a feminist (of all feminists) to say that?”
Conclusion (for the time being): “well, it’s Germaine… she has a mouth. A brash, unapologetic, funny mouth. Haven’t written her off – still adore her. But do wonder how Julia is travelling. Sure she’s taking it in her stride. Might be amused even. Probably said to Tim at the time, ‘well SHE can talk in that grey, black, white getup… bitch’…”
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Lock her in a room with Bettina Arndt and they can work through their issues together
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LOL!
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There seems to be a lot of comments saying that its simply a ‘fact’ that the PM has a ‘big arse’ and that GG was simply stating it as a fact and not that it is a ‘bad’ thing or derogatory etc. Can I assume from these comments that if “facts” such as “she’s got huge boobs” or “a massive nose” or “enormous thighs” would be ok to throw in to a political debate about our PM, or any other woman……GG made a stupid comment and made some excellent points become overshadowed by a joke that simply wasn’t funny.
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sorry, this article screams bad journalism.
it is incredibly misleading. Anyone who watched the full episode last night would know this comment was a flippant remark stated AFTER a heavy stream of positive commentary, in response to a question about Gillard’s image.
She mentioned it only to point out that Gillard’s jackets are not well-tailored.
I’m disappointed in this article. I’m disappointed that it has succumbed to the same tactics as all other useless Australian media these days…i.e. falsely report something to stir up controversy.
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Which bit is false?
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more like OTT…
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I agree with you tallicachild, I don’t see what she said was so bad, I’m a big fan of Julia and what Germaine said was positive all the way; it was just a flippant comment made after the fact.
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I completely disagree with you. Just because it’s Germaine Greer the comment gets to be written off as ‘flippant’. If ANYONE else made that remark – gees if MIA made that remark or Tony Abbott or any male commentator – there would be hell to pay. But with Germaine Greer it’s all excused. Because she was being “funny”. Really?
All this “taken out of context” talk is doing my head in … it’s reality tv show style reasoning. Either she did or she didn’t make a joke about the size of the Prime Minister’s arse? The end. I have no problem with the comment about the PM having badly fitting jackets. But to get personal with the “face it you have a big arse” line is out of line. And it’s demeaning.
And I did actually acknowledge in my article that GG made some interesting comments before she made that quip.
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Just to clarify Bec, my issue with your post is not to do with the “arse comment” itself. I agree that it was inappropriate and was myself shocked when she said it last night. It is your argument that that one comment undermines Greer’s integrity as a feminist that I disagree with (and I know this isn’t Germaine’s first inappropriate comment, nor her last). I don’t think Greer’s breed of feminism has been about nurturing women, but is rather about empowering them. I understand that you are angry, but to call her irrelevant and use equally personal insults undermines your position.
Unfortunately, Aus political commentary is regularly personal and I think that it undermines feminism to suggest that women need to be “nurtured” in a way that men don’t (we rarely worried about John Howard’s self-esteem when we mocked his voice, eyebrows and height). The context that I think people are referring to is that it was a discussion of Gillard’s skill as a politician and that while unnecessary, Greer’s comment, firstly, did not act to undermine that skill and, secondly, was related to the question of public image so appearance was (unfortunately) a relevant topic. That does not, however, excuse her comment.
I find it awful when women are defined by their looks, but I don’t think that Greer’s comment (although rude and impolite) acted to define Gillard by her backside. Ie. she’s a rubbish PM because she’s not a size 8.
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Hi Ellie
Sorry I may not have made my point very clear (I am somewhat sleep deprived). I don’t think everything GG has done is now irrelevant. I just mean that who she is today – the things she says (the man-bashing, the bitter comments) – her brand of feminism is now irrelevant to me. Does that make sense?
I don’t think I was rude in my post and I stand by my initial reaction to GG’s comments. Greer would be the FIRST person to play attack-dog on any man who said something like that about Julia Gillard. And we would all be hugely insulted and up in arms if a male had been on Q & A and said the same thing. So I think it’s hypocritical that Greer herself cannot be criticised. She’d be the first to do it.
She has said appalling things about men and done some atrocious things in recent years .. just because she’s done incredible things in the past doesn’t excuse it.
And I don’t for a moment think that feminists need to be all nurturing Carol Bradys … but a throw away quip that is demeaning is not okay by me.
But this is an interesting issue and has given me (and hopefully lots of others today) food for thought. I appreciate your feedback and comments.
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Janel & Nathan,Your blog on your son Drew is very mnovig and rweirdang. I just read it and it has brought me to tears of joy on how well he is adapting. You two are doing a fine job with Drew.I am looking forward to more of his stories. Keep up the great job.Drew will be able to do whatever he puts his mind to do.God does not give you more than you can handle. Keep the faith of God and I will be praying for you and your family.
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I don’t think it was out of line, she mentioned it as a joke. She does it alot – strings the audience along with one of her ‘views’ (usually most compelling at that), then just when it’s getting too serious she throws one of these comments in to scandalise. Why not? It must be a drag having everyone who’s read your first book expecting you to be the same person you were 40 years ago, and being mortally offended every time you say something slightly humorous. Why can’t she evolve along with ‘feminism’?
At the Opera House recently she was talking about Gina Rinehart, and suddenly said something along the lines of ‘This woman who has 20 billion or so dollars … and still cannot get herself a decent haircut!’ (come on, admit it – that’s funny!). Well the audience generally thought that was great – an unexpected little poke by the last person in the world you thought would have done it.
Storm in a teacup, as others have said.
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Agree with your comment Not disappointed. Q & A is a one hour TV program and as such there is an expectation of entertainment in the delivery of such a format. This is what GG did although admittedly it was stupid. Reading GGs articles will give you the breadth and depth of her opinions not just sound bites.
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That’s all included in the clip, I think some people have a problem despite the initial (very awesome) intro to the remark.
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sometimes people forget (like her, or not, her politics or not) that Julia gillard is the Prime Minister of our country, and deserves some respect.
and I never like Germaine Greer.
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Two way street. She has no respect of the electorate and it’s reflected back at her. The only people I ever hear make excuses for her are women – women who are happy because she’s a woman.
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Great piece Bec.
There’s so much Greer could be addressing and instead she’s undermining her legacy with ridiculous comments like this and the one she made about Gina Rinehart at the recent forum in Sydney. That and her tired man-hating spiels bore me. Feminism doesn’t have to be dull, nor does it mean we can’t gossip, but women are such a force to be reckoned with when we support each other. Greer is rapidly turning into the sort of woman she once sneered at.
Here’s what I had to say about her on Sunday …
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Women-need-old-feminism-like-a-fish-needs-a-bicycle/
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Angela, you’ve summed up exactly how I feel about ye olde feminism. xxx
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There is now (at least) one generation of women who only know Greer as a mean spirited know it all rather than a trail-blazer. No, one comment doesn’t erase all that she has done, but it makes it far less likely that young women will see her as a feminist icon, seek her ideas out – the many good ones – and appreciate what she has achieved and what she has inspired others to achieve. Even those who still regard her fondly seem to like her old stuff better than her new stuff!
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Man hating? Mean spirited? Ye olde feminism? I was at the Opera House to hear Germaine at the “f” word and she was enthralling, engaging, and challenging. I could have listened to her for hours. Her politics are just as applicable today as I imagine they were in the 60′s, and I’m disappointed to hear such dismissive comments. Isn’t there a saying, ‘a prophet is never recognised in their own country’?
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That comment aside, Greer was excellent on Q+A last night. I think it’s be a mistake to ignore the good for one clunky comment.
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Fair point, Nico. I thought she said some incredibly interesting things last night but I fell let down by her with that “arse” quip.
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Nah, I didn’t interpret it that way at all. Guilty confession time —it actually sounded like a conversation I’d have with my girlfriends over drinks i.e. in-depth issue critique followed by random shallow throwaway line the world could have survived without. Yet we all consider ourselves committed feminists. I really didn’t think she was mocking the PM’s bum size – it was more “the jackets don’t suit you because you have a big bum, so accept the latter and fix them” – but there was no inference that the size of her bum was good or bad or that she was less of a PM because of it.
But seriously, what about the other important points that she made? I don’t know, but I find seizing on this one thing disappointing – I’m not suggesting she’s above criticism, but pouncing on this and not even attempting to discuss the rest is just … a bit tabloid, really.
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Oh I agree completely. I don’t think it’s a big deal at all and definitely didn’t deserve all this attention
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I think there’s a big difference between making these comments with close friends over a few drinks(which I’m sure we all do) and making it on tv…
I was disappointed in the comment because we fight so hard for women to be taken seriously in the workplace and not to be judged on looks, or how we dress but purely on the job we do. I was disappointed in GG for making this throw away statement. And I’ve noticed that the main comments made about appearance are about women, take the obamas for instance, how many articles, comments are there about how Mrs Obama dresses? But rarely any on Barack. Abbott certainly doesn’t get the same comments on appearance that Julia does.
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I think if Julia was being judged only on her clothes and not on performance then yes, I’d absolutely agree with you. But in this clip (as well as the rest of the section) Germaine Greer talked overwhelmingly about her performance/record first – and then only at the end was the throwaway line. True, in a better world we wouldn’t notice each other’s outfits as quickly as we hear each other’s point of view, although no doubt that idea gives the fashion industry the horrors.
I guess I just don’t feel comfortable judging Germaine Greer on this when I know I’m just as likely to do the same thing. Camera or no camera, it feels somehow hypocritical.
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“it was more “the jackets don’t suit you because you have a big bum, so accept the latter and fix them” – but there was no inference that the size of her bum was good or bad or that she was less of a PM because of it.”
Totally agree with this – she never said Julia can’t be PM because of her bum size. I love you Bec but this is a bit of a media beat up – another point GG so eloquently made on Q&A last night
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I’m so glad Greer’s comments have been called out here. I was watching and I was disgusted. Imagine if a man had made those comments – all of the people commenting here in Greer’s defence would be baying for blood. It was just wrong, wrong, wrong!
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Really? would we? If the comment is actually the truth? I mean is it true that our Prime Minister should get her jackets tailored a little better? What if Germaine had been talking about Abott and commented on his crappy choice of ties? Or suggested that he not wear then as it makes his head look… umm big??
I know feminism has got women a hell of a long way and I thank those suffragettes, but to slam people for a throw away line, designed to take away some of the seriousness of the past half hour??? Really?
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This article is exactly what GG was blaming the media of doing. Making a mountain out of a mole hill. GG commented on Gillard’s general appearance as not being up to scratch for someone who holds the office of PM. She did comment on her jackets being unflattering to her behind but not that she had a big behind. For once GG made sense (for the most part).
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I don’t agree with you – I do think her comments were said in jest, but I don’t think it was part of a well thought through critique of the media. And, just to clarify, she did comment on the size of her behind – Germaine said: “You’ve got a big arse, Julia”.
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The media comment was in around there somewhere before or after (doesn’t really matter).
Just re-watched it, my memory seems to be slipping from when I watched last night. She did say it. Sorry about that.
I don’t think JG would lose any sleep over that sort of comment.
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I’m sure Gillard has a thick skin by now! Greer is by no means the first person to make this kind of remark but it is frustrating that people must now think that, if Greer, trail-blazing feminist, can say it, then it must be OK to make these sort of comments about a woman whose job description goes way beyond appearance. She has form on this kind of comment but I doubt she’d be very generous in her assessment if someone else had said it, whether it was a joke or not.
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AJ, her exact words are: “You’ve got a big arse Julia”. But even if she didn’t, why is Germaine Greer commenting on the PM’s fashion sense? I thought Germaine would have something more substantial to say than that.
Julia Gillard is our first female PM. I find it surprising that Germaine Greer would attack her for her fashion sense and backside, rather than her politics. The media is roasted for “treating the PM differently because she is a woman”. GG did exactly that last night – and worse.
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Although I was riveted by the point she was making about Gillard as a politician before the arse comment. It was sensible, and no one else really says it much…
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To be fair, I don’t think GG was criticising Gillard’s arse size, just stating facts – my mum might do the same thing, and not be offensive about it, just honest.
But I do think GG was criticising her fashion though – and that I wholeheartedly thought uncalled for.
Shame on you Germaine.
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Did you even watch it!? She had PLENTY of substantial things to say about the PM, which I was actually really impressed with.
The question was about the PM’s image. so surprise! her image (i.e. the way she presents herself, through e.g. fashion) was brought up!
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I’ve retracted the “big arse” miss.
John Howard was the source of many jibes about his appearance. Rightly or wrongly it’s what people do and not many, if anyone, could honestly say they have never done what GG did last night.
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She had a lot of substantial things to say. I take it you didn’t watch the show. Shame, really.
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Interestingly, on 702 ABC this afternoon, Eva Cox, well known feminist scholar and commentator described the Greer comment and aftermath as a storm in a teacup. It’s difficult when derogatory comments about the PM’s backside are dismissed by a person who would surely have been appalled, had anyone else made such a comment. Do I tell my teenagers it’s fine to slag off about another person’s physical attributes? “Mum, I thought Germaine Greer was a feminist!”
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“Big” is not necessarily derogatory – there are whole magazines devoted to the subject!
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I feel like real change in this area will happen when comments about women’s appearance are treated the same way comments about men are. That will show me that we’ve moved passed being huing up on appearance.
John Howard is an unattractive man (I’m sure someone will disagree, but come on), and many jibes were made about his appearance over the years. But no one cared, least of all Howard, because comments about men’s looks aren’t as loaded. The real triumph will be when we can accept that some women are more or less attractive than others, and treat comments that make reference to that as fact, not an attack. Germaine Greer wasn’t saying having a big butt is a bad thing, she was just saying the PM has one and she should start dressing to flatter it.
I have to say, I always find it odd when articles about someone commenting on anwomen’s appearances are posted. After all, this is the same site that called a perfectly normal model ‘emaciated’, a site that regularly allows “ew, she’s so skinny, look at her arms” type comments, and a site that posts fashion galleries and let’s commenters take aim at celebrities body shapes and dress sense.
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Love this comment.
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Have you seen Jean Kilbourne’s Killing Us Softly? The link between women portrayed in the media/advertising & the epidemic of bulimic/ anorexic girls? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTlmho_RovY
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I think her comments were tasteless and, above all, rude.
However I don’t think Germaine was criticising Gillard’s size, just stating it plainly. I think, in her mind, she was being funny and perhaps even promoting a feminist stance in that there is no shame in having a “big arse”. It’s just a fact of life.
That said, I would never say that about another woman (especially on national television) because it is derogatory and embarrassing.
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Do you think that the reason why you ‘would never say that about another woman because it’s derogatory and embarrassing’ is because of the stigma attached with having anything described as big (if you’re a woman)?
I think that a lot of this is to do with the fact that we feel it’s an insult for people to say we have a big butt because we believe that small is better. While I understand the stupidity with commenting on a woman’s appearance, I also feel that the backlash would have been far less if the PM had a small butt and GG had said ‘She has a small butt, she needs to dress for it.’
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I totally agree! : )
I think Germaine’s frankness is refreshing.
However, I don’t think it’s her place to say such things about Julia Gillard, or anybody. It would be one thing to fight the stigma by saying “I have a big arse”. It’s another to say it about someone else.
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The fact that GG spent 5 minutes before this comment talking about the good stuff Gillard has achieved didn’t even get a look-in in this piece. And she has spoken out in defence of Gillard before this as well. Gillard’s work, not her appearance.
Ye gods, the woman made a bad joke that I read as her making fun of the fact that the press DOES focus too much on Gillard’s appearance. She didn’t pull it off, but we’re going to crucify her for it and call her irrelevant? Talking of sisterhood, where’s the sisterhood in that?
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yeah, i agree about the fact that she said a whole lot more than this one ass comment, i would hardly call what Greer had to say (on many topics last night) as all ‘sound bite no substance’…..
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This is being discussed on 702 at the moment and Eva Cox just called in to defend Germaine and pooh pooh the conversy.
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Not to mention her stance on transgender/transexual women. Denying them the same rights as other women is sick and backwards.
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Bec? You lost me at “crazy aunt”…
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Ellie, what Bec said was Greer was LIKE a crazy aunt who needs to say shocking things, in order to get media attention. That just about nails it, eh Bec ?…… Spot on.
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I know what Bec said and it upsets me. Reducing an issue to a tired gendered stereotype when debating feminism of all issues? Pot. Kettle. Black.
Perhaps you didn’t actually watch Q&A, but Greer made many insightful, intelligent and important comments last night along with this inappropriate one (which Bec has acknowledged in previous comments).
It says more about the media that they only pay attention to her shocking statements than it does about Greer (who btw made some very interesting comments last night regarding the dumbing down of the media and its obsession with scandal and headlines).
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If I could like this comment 100 times, I would.
This article reduces all of Greer’s great commentary from Q&A and focuses on one throwaway line, then decides this one comment negates her 30+ year body of work. Then to further diminish Greer, applies a derogatory stereotype of “crazy aunt” because lord knows we can’t just play the point, not the person.
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Brilliant comment.
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Watch Germaine Greer ? I’d sooner shave, with a chain saw. She’s irrelevent……..
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Let’s correct that, to irrelevant !…….
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