Last week, a pregnant woman and her unborn baby were killed when their car went off the road and crashed head on, into a tree.
The father of the baby and driver of the car, was charged with one count of causing death from dangerous driving.
Only one.
The unborn child’s death was not counted because under South Australian law, a foetus cannot be a victim of crime.
The foetus’ death was, however, included in the national road toll. The case has reignited the fierce debate about when a foetus should be considered a person for the purposes of criminal and calls for changes to foetal homicide laws.
The ABC reports:
Family First MP Robert Brokenshire is drafting a bill that would see criminal charges apply to people who cause the deaths of unborn babies in circumstances including assaults, domestic violence and car accidents where drivers are found to be at fault.
Mr Brokenshire says he has been planning legislation for several months to amend the Criminal Law Consolidation Act.
The immediate past president of the Australian Lawyer’s Alliance, Greg Barns, says the question is a fraught one.
“It is an area where we ought to be looking at compassion and keeping the criminal law well away, except for those extreme cases where, for example, a person deliberately assaults another person who is pregnant,” he said. “Outside of those cases, there’s no room for the criminal law in this area.”
There have been subsequent allegations that the Family First party’s calls for law changes are simply “sneaky” attempts to change abortion laws without people noticing. This is because the operation of laws about abortion would be subsequently affected by any changes to the definition of when life begins.
The law currently treats unborn children differently in different jurisdictions. The state which appears to give the most credence to the idea that a crime against an unborn child should be treated the same as if the child were a independently living is Queensland. Queensland law states that “Any person who unlawfully assaults a female pregnant with a child and destroys the life of, or does grievous bodily harm to, or transmits a serious disease to, the child before its birth, commits a crime.”
A few years ago, Mamamia publisher Mia Freedman wrote about the rights of unborn children after a 41-year-old woman was sent to jail for nine months when she ran her van into a pregnant woman on Christmas day in 2009 (while on a cocktail of drugs). The pregnant woman was badly injured and her unborn baby girl was killed.
The baby girl was called Zoe. She was named, after being stillborn a few hours later. Zoe’s mother Brodie had been 36 weeks pregnant. At the time, Mia wrote:
The woman driving the van was charged with causing ‘grievous bodily harm’. There was no related charge able to be made around Zoe’s death because the law did not recognise the baby as a person. To do so, would have implications for abortion law.
To recognise an unborn baby as having the same legal rights as you and I, would mean that choosing to terminate a pregnancy would be mired in legal implications.
Here’s where it gets soooo complicated. For me, anyway. And maybe for you too.
I support a woman’s right to control her own fertility. I am pro-choice (not to be confused with pro-abortion which is a bizarre term thrown around by the anti-choice movement to try and tarnish the pro-choicers. I don’t know anyone who is pro-abortion or even how you could be. It’s a ridiculous term). I have marched in rallies to support a woman’s right to choose and I will again if I ever believe it’s seriously under threat by any state or federal government or law.
And yet.
I’m not comfortable with late term abortions for non-medical reasons. I’m just not. And I guess it comes down to this: When do you think life begins? And how do you define “late term”?
The anti-choice movement, who do believe abortion at any stage past conception is akin to murder, would very much like all unborn babies to be recognised as having the same legal rights as anyone else. From conception. Because this would certainly throw abortion laws into chaos. How can you abort an entity that has legal rights?
That’s why this is such a fraught and complex issue.
It would be a travesty if the current laws around abortion were in any way wound back.
Because if history has taught us anything, it’s that women who are desperate not to be pregnant, will find a way to end their pregnancy, no matter the risk to their own lives. We certainly don’t want to go back THERE.
But back to Brodie for a moment. As she tearfully said outside the court, she wanted her daughter Zoe’s life to count for something. And her death to be a punishable offence. Surely, to deny that is somehow to deny the precious life that was so much wanted by Brodie and her husband, isn’t it?
I’m not a lawyer but to me, that is the crux of the difference between the legal status of an aborted foetus and one that was taken against the will of the mother. The mother’s will. It’s as simple as that. If a mother wishes to be pregnant and have a baby and that choice and baby is taken from her by someone else – either in a deliberate attack or an act of reckless negligence like the one that ended Zoe’s life – surely that can be classed as murder or manslaughter. Can’t it?
I realise this is very very dangerous territory to stray into because I’m fearful of anything that might give those who are determined to take choice away from women any ammunition. But I still think it’s an important conversation to have. Respectfully and civilly as always.
When do you think life begins and do you think there should be changes to the law to recognise the death of babies like Zoe?
Three years on, the law has seen very little movement towards a united national position on when life begins. So we’re putting Mia’s question to you once again.
What do you think of feotal homicide laws? Should a person be charged with murder for killing a feotus? When does life begin?








Comments
48 Comments so far
I know a lot of comments are focusing on the abortion side of the this article, but I thought I would bring some attention to the legal side.
I’m not sure if any of you remember but about 10 years ago, in Modesto, California, a guy named Scott Peterson murdered his wife, Laci, who was about 7-8 months pregnant with his baby, a little boy they planned to name Conner.
This case was MASSIVE in the US, and generated so much media interest there is at least 4 books written on in, plus two TV movies.
From this extremely sad case, Laci’s family petitioned for the laws to be changed, thus resulting in this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act
While I know this is the US who have very different laws to Australia, it’s something to consider.
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Mia, pro lifers are not anti choice, as another poster pointed out earlier. Pro lifers would like to see people make appropriate choices re contraception and choice of sexual partners. Why be having sex without making at least some effort at contraception?I know quite a few men who got women pregnant, didn’t want a baby and walked away from it saying the woman should have an abortion, but they could have used a condom and avoided a situation they didn’t want. There are many men who have had their families, are divorced and back on singles scene out for a good time. They have no desire to have more children and could guarantee that by having a vasectomy but they do not. But they complain bitterly when a woman gets pregnant.
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No method of contraception is 100% reliable. Also, some women are raped and do not have a choice in whether contraception was used or not. I am pro-choice. This does not mean that I think abortion is a desirable thing or that people should not try to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Being pro-choice means that I think what other women do with their bodies is none of my business. Pro-lifers are by definition ‘anti-choice’ as they believe that once a woman is pregnant she should have to go through with it. No one has the right to make the decision for, or impose that view on someone else.
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Yeah, and the woman could have used an iud or been on the pill or whatever, it’s not as black and white as simply blaming the man.
It’s interesting that there are no discussions ever on the effects on the father if a pregnancy is terminated against his will. I was absolutely devastated when my (ex) wife had a termination without my knowledge. It’s sometimes difficult for men too
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I agree, if people ( male and female) would take contraception seriously there would not be so many unwanted pregnancies
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Maybe less but no contraception was 100% effective. I was on the pill, and taking it correctly and still got pregnant. It happens.
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“I am pro-choice (not to be confused with pro-abortion which is a bizarre term thrown around by the anti-choice movement to try and tarnish the pro-choicers”
On the one hand it is wrong to call people who support the use of abortion in certain circumstances “pro” abortion, but on the other hand it is fine to label people who thing abortion is murder as “anti” choice. What was wrong with pro-life – oh, well, that is too positive a name for those awful anti-choicers. Daring saying that you think abortion is murder, then you must be religious – you can’t possibly be making rational decisions which are different to mine, you MUST be referencing a sky fairy. The great problem many will have with this case is that you really can’t say terminating a foetus is not killing on one hand, when you want the convenice of choice, but is killing on the other hand, when you want to prosecute bad people. Claiming a foetus is a life at some arbitary point, when it becomes “self sustaining” is idealogical masturbation. All that said I am pro-choice, I just accept that it is killing. I am also pro capital punishment and pro euthanasia.
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At 24 weeks a baby has a good chance of survival (with medical assistance) if born. At 20 weeks, my own baby was kicking at the sound of laughter. She’s been strongly felt as a family member from that point- as we felt her personality. I’m against late term abortion without strong medical reasoning, but I think termination to save a mother is incomparable to causing such injury on a woman that her foetus is killed or maimed.
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Surely the distinction is external force/injury? I don’t see how a medical procedure would be difficult to classify as opposed to any sort of external cause of death like a car crash or an assault. I think there could also be a distinction between a genuine accident and someone driving under the influence etc and obviously assault. So one could be manslaughter and the other murder.
I guess there is still the age of the foetus at the time but perhaps that can be defined as the same age that it is necessary to have a funeral/death certificate.
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What about the mothers that smoke, drink and take drugs when they are pregnant? Should they be charged if their baby is born prematurely or have conditions related to the mother’s behaviour….
Would this mean that only others who harm the baby could be charged?
What about mothers who choose have a baby with a genetic condition when they knowingly know there is a risk of having a baby with a deformity?
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While i do support a woman’s right to access abortion, it is disturbing that we prioritise the right of a woman to terminate a child over the rights of a mother who had her child recklessly or deliberately taken from her…
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This is a question that doesn’t have an answer. It is a moral, ethical question that has no answer that will ever satisfy everyone involved. It is a sad tragic case for all involved.
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I think if its an accidents no a person should not be punished I think knowing n unborn child died from a mistake you made is bad enough. However if its seen to be on purpose or things like alcohol / drugs where the cause of someone causing injury to a pregnant and her unborn child then yes they should be charged for the unborn child’s life however ONLY if the baby was at a stage it could easily survive outside the mother either on its own or with medical help.
I think if an unborn baby unfortunately doesn’t make it and its at a stage it would possibly not even survive if it had been born early then that’s a different story again really.
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How would the law be written to take all of this into consideration
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It’s a perfectly ridiculous position to advocate for foetal homicide while allowing termination of pregnancy. It simply wouldn’t work.
You can’t have both.
The only way it could work would be to have an absolute point in pregnancy where the rights to termination stops and foetal rights begin. If this point is something like 12 weeks gestation, how on earth would one determine if it was 11 weeks and 6 days or 12 weeks and 1 day? 2 days would make the difference between homicide and nothing. I’m not sure that medical science can define the point of gestation to that level of accuracy.
So the status quo will stay.
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This ‘accident’ happened in my friends front yard. It was a horrific crime, with the woman a mother to other children. They not only lost their mum, but their unborn sibling. There should be justice for that. Crashing a car into a stobie pole isn’t in the same ballpark as abortion.
I don’t know the answer, but there needs to be one.
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are you saying it wasn’t an accident?
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I’m saying i believe its still being investigated. I do know more than what’s been released, But I don’t know the full story.
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the driver was on a cocktail of drugs and whilst didnt deliberately “run down” the pedestrian, she had been driving erratically down the street with no control over herself or her vehicle all the while with her own daughter in the car. A horrible, stupid and pathetic accident that has left the pedestrian permanently scarred with not just the physical but the emotional effects of losing her baby daughter. Google it – the findings of the magistrate are there.
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Brodie and her partner Nick are friends of mine and I attended baby Zoe’s funeral. She was a perfectly formed baby girl with the most cherubic face that was sadly taken from Brodie and Nick. You only need to have attended thay day and watch friends and family weep for Zoe and watch such a brave Brodie tell her baby that she would have given her own life for Zoe to have hers. Not a day goes by that they don’t think of their baby daughter and the last three years they have spent campaigning for changes in this law. If Zoe (born by emergency Caesar) had taken just one tiny breath, the driver of that car would have been up for manslaughter. That is the difference, because Zoe never breathed on her own she is considered a foetus and not a baby. Yet they had to have funeral and follow all the same procedures as if Zoe had been a teenager and died.
It’s not so much about what a mother wants or wills, it’s about the fact that that baby was a person, a real living human being that was capable of being born and living a long and full life. I will always support these laws changing and sadly it seems that it will take some time before this happens.
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I don’t know much about legalities, but it seems that the only way to remove the grey area is to draw a line in the sand. In theory, that line would be best drawn at a point where it is possible for a baby to survive with medical intervention (which I believe currently is 23 weeks?) There would need to be a clause for late-term abortions for situations where the foetus has a disorder that is ‘incompatible with life’ as I know some of these can’t be (or aren’t) detected until further through the pregnancy, maybe having a requirement for two doctors to sign off on the procedure or similar.
To be honest, if something that is not a medical procedure results in the death of an unborn baby, I don’t see why that can’t automatically be seen as a recorded death in the eyes of the court. I understand that an unborn baby who dies in the womb can’t have a birth certificate, but in terms of a crime being committed, that is a different matter entirely. I’m no lawyer, so perhaps there’s an angle I can’t see, but assault vs medical procedure with informed consent/intent is a clearly different scenario.
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This is a very complex issue, but I think a person should be charged with murder when the pregnancy is at a stage where the baby would survive outside of it’s mother, with or without medical intervention.
Last week my unborn niece was killed in a car accident. Her mother was almost 39 weeks pregnant. She was not just a foetus. She was a fully formed and developed, healthy human being. It blows my mind that anyone would say this life shouldn’t be recognised.
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Agreed. And so sorry to hear about your niece. Blessings to you and your family getting through this traumatic time.
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Gosh, that’s awful! Sorry to hear.
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The civil legal position in Victoria (for those who are unsure – civil law is the system where you can sue for compensation, compared to criminal law where the perpetrator is punished) is that in many areas of personal injury, ‘loss of a foetus’ is an automatic ‘significant injury’.
So to step back and give bit of background – to be able to bring a case for pain and suffering in Victoria, you have to establish that you had a ‘significant injury’.
SO this is a pretty major position because for any other type of injury (even quadreplegia), the plaintiff typically has to go through a process to established whether they have met the injury threshold required to bring a claim.. for loss of foetus it’s a legislated, automatic right to compensation (assuming of course you can prove all the other elements of your case).
In this situation, the woman will be compensated for the trauma associated with losing the foetus.
A little off point but interestingly, this is a better position at law than the mother of a live child who dies. If a child dies due to the negligence of another, a mother’s course of action is for ‘nervous shock’ associated with the loss of the child. To be able to bring that kind of claim however, the mother has to prove she meets the psychiatric ‘significant injury’ threshold. Very frustratingly, I have been involved in cases where the child has died and the mother has failed to meet the threshold for psychiatric injury to bring a claim. The mind boggles at that for me – surely there is no greater ‘psychiatric injury’ than losing a child.
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In this situation the mother is dead. What happens then? Who can bring the civil suit against the ‘father’ ?
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I find it appalling we can sue for loss of life like money will change anything. I get it with gross negligence that costs need covering but I see so much ” compensation” neat ups in my line of work it makes my blood boil.
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That’s exactly why you sue for “nervous shock” and not for “death”. The law acknowledges that you can’t put a value on human life, and that no money will bring your loved one back. What they can assess, is how much money the pain will cost you – in terms of counselling fees, etc, as well as compensation for “pain and suffering”.
Grief is very expensive. When you’re gutted and traumatised, you often can’t get out of bed, can’t work, can’t care for your other children, your health suffers, etc. If you can have some money to compensation for the lost wages, for the medical bills, for child care etc then you will be better able to get back on your feet. It won’t replace the child, but it will help relieve at least the financial aspect of your terrible scenario.
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Why call them the anti-choice movement? Call them pro life or anti abortion because that’s what point they make, but it’s a bit leading/misleading to say anti choice when they are not saying that women shouldn’t have a choice to have a baby or not (just when they maybe people should think about becoming pregnant and consequences of actions)
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Ummm hang on, they are telling when whether to have a baby or not. They are telling pregnant women not to abort. They are not about choice at all. That’s why the title of anti-choice is apt.
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I believe in two things regarding this issue. A foetus is not an independent living being until it leaves its mother’s body. Without its mother, it cannot exist unless there is medical intervention. Therefore if a pregnant woman is harmed, causing the unfortunate death of her baby, then charges laid must be in relation to pain, suffering, injury to the mother, including emotional injury caused by the death of her baby. Just because we can now see a baby on an ultrasound screen, doesn’t mean it is alive like any other human being.
I also believe that if we are to discontinue late term abortion, then we need to discontinue ultrasound. What else is ultrasound for than checking to see if a baby is healthy/viable. We cannot offer ultrasound and then tell the parents who receive bad news, that they have no options. Being faced with this bad news is horrific and extremely traumatic, as are the procedures for ending the pregnancy. As a society, we can’t have it both ways. Couples/women either have first rights, or they don’t.
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A late term ultrasound is useful in diagnosing medical issues of the baby. It allows Dr’s to begin planning medical treatment with operations &/or medication to help a baby survive. To not use such technology would be going back into the dark ages in a huge way. You have stated that a late term ultrasound is to see if a baby is healthy and viable, what about all the babies that can survive with medical intervention? Are their lives not just as precious as those who are perfectly healthy?
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Mug, I agree with you, all babies are precious. But in considering whether ultrasound is a necessary evil, planning for medical interventions where a baby has problems can happen after the baby is born. For those at risk of not making it to birth, I doubt there are as many of those who require surgery in utero as there are babies being terminated due to abnormalities. Therefore is ultrasound creating more problems than benefits?
I didn’t say ultrasounds were to diagnose in late pregnancy…it is usually 12 – 20 weeks that most problems are found. And when they are found, I can personally attest that couples are not always well supported. They are often quietly shipped away for a termination, as if they are committing a crime.
I agree with you that ultrasound is wonderful technology and our generation’s pregnancies wouldn’t be the same without that beautiful early glimpse but if we are keeping it, we need to be ok as a society about what we do when the news isn’t good.
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What on earth do you mean by “quietly shipped away to have an abortion”? I’ve also personally seen and looked after couples in this scenario and that just hasn’t happened. They have been given the utmost respect and privacy for the whole process.
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I agree with you. I think that the death of the baby should be linked to the physical harm and subsequent emotional suffering suffered by the mother as a result of the accident/attack/etc. Thus it could be included in something like ‘grevious bodily harm’ for example.
This may be a controversial opinion but I feel that if someone was charged with harming a pregnant woman as well as the murder/manslaughter of the unborn baby it would sort of be like ‘double punishment’ for the one crime. As the unborn child is completely dependent on the mother, if the baby died due to the actions of someone else, it’s death would be the result of harm to the mother. (I’m not sure if I have explained this well). For example: say there was a car accident in which a pregnant woman was injured and her baby died, the baby died as a result of the mother’s injuries.
As you said, I think the death of the unborn baby should be taken into account, but I do not feel that ‘murder’ is the correct category.
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Some operations can also be done in utero.
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An ultrasound near the due date can help determine the size of the baby which can be a concern if gestational diabetes was an issue during the pregnancy.
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Mia wrote”"I’m not a lawyer but to me, that is the crux of the difference between the legal status of an aborted foetus and one that was taken against the will of the mother. The mother’s will. It’s as simple as that. If a mother wishes to be pregnant and have a baby and that choice and baby is taken from her by someone else – either in a deliberate attack or an act of reckless negligence like the one that ended Zoe’s life – surely that can be classed as murder or manslaughter. Can’t it?”"
I don’t think our legal system can accommodate Mia’s position as the legal system works on facts, not feelings.
Mia seems to want to give an unborn baby personhood based on the mother’s feelings. She appears to be saying If you feel you want and love the baby, someone else killing it is manslaughter or murder. However,if you don’t want to have a baby ending its life is ok.
Mia take a very woman centred approach.”"I’m not a lawyer but to me, that is the crux of the difference between the legal status of an aborted foetus and one that was taken against the will of the mother. The mother’s will. It’s as simple as that”". So I assume that if the father of the baby wants the unborn baby it doesn’t matter about his feelings, it is all about the woman’s feelings.
But if she should choose to have the baby, I assume Mia would expect the guy to shoulder his responsibilities to pay child support, take some interest in the baby.
So when it comes to babies, it appears men have no rights re their unborn, but they will have responsibility for child support should the child be born.
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“So I assume that if the father of the baby wants the unborn baby it doesn’t matter about his feelings, it is all about the woman’s feelings.
But if she should choose to have the baby, I assume Mia would expect the guy to shoulder his responsibilities to pay child support, take some interest in the baby.
So when it comes to babies, it appears men have no rights re their unborn, but they will have responsibility for child support should the child be born.”
Excellent point. And a VERY grey area.
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Nadine, you’re absolutely right about fathers having no rights when it comes to babies.
Once conception has occurred the father is a passenger. He has no rights to make decisions for the baby until the baby is born. Bad luck if he wants to prevent a termination, or conversely he doesn’t want to be a father. He has no say at all.
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If a guy does not want to be a father, he has the choice to use a condom or have a vasectomy. I would have to say all the men I know who are accidental daddies were having one night stands/brief flings and didn’t use condoms ( or have vasectomies) as they left contraception up to the women. Really I cannot have much sympathy for men who made no effort to take precautions.
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Catherine, take your sentence “really I cannot have much sympathy for men who made no effort to take precautions” and apply it to women undergoing terminations (probably much to their stress and distress). Pregnancy sometimes happens, even when people use condoms etc. Similarly, sometimes people get caught up in the moment, and the morning after pill fails.
I think the more relevant arguement re men’s choice regarding the continuation of a pregnancy is that it’s less problematic for the woman’s choice to overrule the man’s, when the baby is inside HER body. If the man had equal or more weight in the decision, how would society enforce his decision? Hold a woman down and force an abortion on her? Lock her in a room until she gives birth to the baby he wants?
It shouldn’t be the women’s choice because ‘the man got himself into this mess, and shouldn’t have had sex if he wasn’t prepared for a baby’, but because she’s the one whose body has to endure the outcome of the decision.
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And I’m 95% sure ‘Catherine’ is a man.
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I was working in politics when Brodie was injured and I’ve had the opportunity to meet with her.She’s handled an awful situation with real dignity.
I just dont think the “will of the mother” is a strong enough concept to stand up to legal scrutiny. People can change their minds.
To give an extreme example, what is a women is in a car on her way to get an abortion and another driver recklessly causes an accident that causes the baby/foetus’s death? What is the will of the mother in that case? Sure, she was on her way to have an abortion but she may have changed her mind before having it.
Pragmatically, my view is that the rights of the mother should triumph and that we should not recognise a baby until it is born. I’m aware others will view it differently but from a public policy perspective, its the best option imho.
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I agree with you on this. Either, as society we support the notion a fetus has no rights until it breathes independently or we agree life begins at conception.
We can’t simply change the law based on someone’s will or desire. You don’t get to move the line of the law based on a person’s feelings.
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What’s with the controversial posts:(
Yesterday it was breastfeeding that generated 590 comments by women fighting and arguing with other women, today it’s abortion:(
Can’t you guys think up some other type topics to write about?
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Sorry to sound like Captain Obvious but It’s what’s featuring in the news?
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For god’s sake, get real.
You can have legal abortion or Foetal homicide.
You can’t have both.
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