Keep it ‘classy’, insists Kochie.
BY MIA FREEDMAN
Oh Kochie. Kochie, Kochie, Kochie.
Thank you, I guess. It’s never a bad thing to remind people of the olden days, when men were men and women were……mostly invisible.
When the only depiction of breasts that was acceptable was the sexy kind. When the idea of a woman using her bosom to feed her baby was….you know….yucky.
It’s good to remember those times because it’s a reminder of how utterly absurd they were. And how anyone who still thinks that way is, well, old. Or at least, old fashioned to the point of being way out of step with modern attitudes.
So Kochie, I guess we shouldn’t be THAT surprised by your attitude……
Responding to a story on Friday’s Sunrise breakfast program about Liana Webster, the Bribie Island woman who was forced to leave her local pool after a complaint was made about her breast feeding in public.
Yes. She had the AUDACITY to feed her hungry baby with her own body. At which point Kochie opened his mouth and inserted first one foot and then the other.
“I totally think women should be able to breastfeed in public but I just think they should be a bit classy about it.”
He has two breastfeeding daughters, he points out. But he says if they breastfeed in restaurants, they turn their chairs around.
His problem, he says, is with ‘high traffic areas’. I have no idea what that actually means unless he doesn’t want women to breastfeed in the middle of a road for safety reasons. But I don’t think that’s what he meant.
Here I am breastfeeding in my lounge room, a low traffic area. PHEW.
As I’ve written previously, with over three years of breastfeeding on my CV (not consecutively and not of the same child), there’s not a public place where I haven’t breastfed or expressed. Beaches, planes, shopping centres, parks, airports, restaurants, BBQs, offices, cafes, meetings, parties, weddings, funerals, churches, synagogues…and frankly, I couldn’t care less who was watching.
Oddly enough, I tended to prioritise my baby’s immediate needs over the Elizabethan prudishness of people who have a problem with boobs being used for their natural function. I’m zany like that.
When I’m breastfeeding, my breasts are about as sexual to me as a bowl of Weet Bix. Because that’s exactly what they represent to my baby. Sustenance. Not sex.
I also find the term ‘public breastfeeding’ amusing. Those who oppose it (or express the need for it to remain ‘classy’) always exude a fearful, vaguely alarmed vibe, as if there are groups of marauding mothers using their babies as an excuse to flash their lactating breasts in strangers’ faces: “I know! Let’s meet at Westfield! The first person to flash their leaky nipple to 100 shoppers wins a toasted sandwich!”
As for the suggestion by some that breastfeeding should happen in toilets, I totally agree. As soon as those same people are happy to have their morning coffee made, served and drunk in a toilet cubicle, we shall happily breastfeed right alongside them.
And using ‘mothers’ rooms’ (which tend to be ghastly places), isn’t always possible, particularly if you have more than one child.
My other favourite thing is when people say mothers should be discreet. Or ‘classy’ as Kochie put it.
This is also true. There are far too many breastfeeding women who brazenly strip naked to the waist in public each time their baby grizzles. Have you seen them throw their bosoms around with gay abandon while waving their arms in the air like they just don’t care?
What is wrong with these women? Why do they derive so much pleasure from being almost nude in public? Oh wait. They’re not and they don’t. Breastfeeding mothers feed our babies as quickly and quietly as possible because THEY ARE HUNGRY and SO THEIR CRIES DON’T DISTURB YOUR VERY IMPORTANT PUBLIC BUISNESS such as texting someone while you sip your skinny latte and flick through a newspaper in a coffee shop.
Selfish exhibitionists, yes we are.
If you’re interested, there’s a public ‘nurse-in’ outside the Sunrise studio on Monday morning. You can find details on this Facebook page.
Viva la boobies.
And these are pictures from the Nurse In protest in Sydney.
The Sunrise Nurse In.
Comments
792 Comments so far
I’ll not doubt get blasted for this but I don’t think Kochie meant harm and kind of understand where he was coming from.
I am a breastfeeding mother, a nurse and also a midwifery student and yet I get it. I am as pro breastfeeding as they come and of course don’t mind it in public but I too don’t think the whole breast always needs to be in the public view.
Why? Because it does make some people uncomfortable. Does it make me uncomfortable? Not in the least, go for it. But there will almost always be someone who feels differently and out of respect for those people I always try to do so as carefully as possible. I’m a size E breast with an active ten month old so I know it’s not easy.
If you have to take your whole breast out of your bra and into the public eye in order to feed successfully, then I think there is no option but to do so. Feeding your baby comes first. BUT, often this isn’t necessary and I just don’t get why being a little careful is such a big deal.. And that, I think, is all Kochie was trying to say.
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Totally agree.
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I feel uncomfortable seeing girls with 80% of their breasts exposed in a revealing top. I feel uncomfortable when I see acres of cleavage on show. A breast feeding mother? I fail o see how that makes anyone feel remotely uncomfortable. They’re working breasts. They’re not there for entertainment purposes.
I presume all of the offended people never visit the beach. I imagine they’d pass out from shock every five minutes,
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I think those people are probably fine at the beach. At the beach breasts are on display, not being used for anything except as objects to ogle. What is apparently subversive and unacceptable is to be seen using your breasts as nature intended. It’s bizarre.
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I totally agree and couldn’t have said it better. There is nothing wrong with this view either. We are all allowed to have opinions on whether we want to expose our breast, or be exposed by others breasts.
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Mia, I admire you, enjoy reading your website and like listening to what you have to say on various topics. Sometimes however I feel you can express your opinion with an arrogant, pretentious and dramatic tone and I think this is one such example of that.
Of all the causes, issues and injustices that exist in the world today, do you truly think Kochie, was suggesting this lady was “audacious” to consider “feeding her hungry baby with her own body”.
Is there not a thousand other issues you could bring attention to? or could you have not addressed this news item in a less
The photo you posted of you and your baby is in your lounge room. I think there is nothing wrong with considering others, or social etiquette when you are in a public place and I think this is merely the point Kochie was making. Did he suggest that mothers should let their children go hungry, rather than breastfeed in public?
I totally agree with “Emme’s” comments. The comment – “Selfish exhibitionists. Yes we are”, is sexist and “utterly absurd” in itself.
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Clare if you think there’s nothing wrong with considering others why don’t you practice what you preach and show some consideration for nursing mothers. We can’t always choose when and where to feed a baby, and have to leave the house sometimes, especially if there are other children. This issue is not important to you because it obviously does not affect you, but it affects me and I’m really offended by what kochie said and glad that Mia is discussing this.
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incorrect anonymous, I have breastfed two children whenever or wherever they have needed feeding. I’m simply saying it needn’t be an issue. Like everything it’s simply a matter of considering others. You can and should put your babies needs first, but also be discreet. So easily done.
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YOU are missing the pint David is CORRECT woman should be discreet at all times it’s called manners just because it’s breast feeding does NOT mean you can just HANG them out whenever you please,……STOP using the comments mad as a reason to push YOUR own business via the web site…look at the results so far on the MSN site QUESTION should women be discreet while breastfeeding 23000 say NO 94000 say YES…..what does that tell you….it tell me David was correct in his comments
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A lot of people on here seem to be totally missing the point of Kochies comments. He was not saying that you should not breastfeed in public, he was simply stating that sitting on the side of a public pool, sitting in a walkway in a store or sitting in an entryway in a McDonalds restaurant will be percieved as inappropriate by most people (refer NineMSN survey 80% of over 100,000 respondents agree with Kochie).
He was simply putting it that in this particular case this lady should have had more respect for the other people and children in the pool and simply moved away from the edge of the pool to feed her baby. All these other comments saying he is anti breastfeeding and he wants you to feed in dirty toilets or with a doona over the baby’s head is ridiculous.
I seriously doubt many commenters on here even watched the segment or story in question.
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This also shocked me, breastfeeding, as a father with a two month old baby, is very much about ‘getting the job done’ and I have never seen a breastfeeding mother flaunt her breasts around ‘indiscreetly’. Yet whilst we accept lingerie advertising with much more skin, some (probably a small bitter minority) have a problem with a mother showing care, love and attention to their baby.
In this case, the mother had a 5 and 6 year old swimming at the time, how could she leave them to go to a change room? why should she put a towel over a baby on a hot day? Come on!
We need a complete mindset shift on this one and people, like the pool staff involved and Koch, need to be held to account. No knee-jerk reactions, no one has to be fired here, but we need to overwhelm the public discourse with the primacy of baby care over the sensitivities of those who 1) are offended or 2) are exhilarated by a bit of mother’s boob in public. To those who have problems with a mother feeding just turn around or walk on by…you can read the thoughts of a new dad here: http://australiaeuropeconnect.com/the-very-odd-obsession-against-breastfeeding-in-australia/
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Love this comment!
Absolutely agree about the need for a mindset shift.
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I’m quoting someone else who said: “If breastfeeding offends you, you’re staring too hard.”
Great article Mia!
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I have breastfed all 3 children in various public places and I agree that it should be discreet, it’s not so much “classy” as polite. For those whose babys don’t like their heads covered by a wrap, how about just covering the chest with it (or pulling top up instead of down) so it’s just the nipple likely to show and not the whole boob?
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Yeah, beacuse women who just had a baby really want to pull their tops up and expose their enitre tummy. Good idea.
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Never worried me – it’s pretty obvious if you’re breastfeeding a small baby that you’ve been pregnant recently. I don’t think I’ve ever pulled a top down to breastfeed, come to think of it. You can get tops for $10 at KMart that are designed with a split across under the bust so you can just lift up the top bit without exposing your tummy if that’s a worry.
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I am a breast feeling mother and agree with Kochie’s comments about breast feeding more classy. I would not breast feed my baby in a pool. I would sit on my towel beside the pool. If I went to the beach I wouldn’t feed my baby in the waves I would sit in my towel. Its also a safety issue how could you help your other child in difficulty in the water if you are breast feeding your baby? That’s how I interpreted Kochie’s opinion that he should be freely able to voice he doesn’t need to bullied over his opinion.
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The woman in question was actually sitting on the side of the pool (watching her two other children swim) and not *in* the pool.
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I think that’s the point how can she help her other children if they get into trouble while swimming?
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To those who insist upon using the argument that breastfeeding a baby is in some way comparable to having sex / urinating / defaecating etc. in public:
If people needed to have sex 10 times a day in order to stay alive, then yes, you probably would see more people having sex in public. To compare sexual gratification to the feeding of a baby is foolish.
Furthermore, the secretion of milk from the mammary glands is very different from the excretion of bacteria laden faeces and urine. One is a food item designed for human babies, the other two are by-products of human metabolism. So, no, not the same.
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My husband got very angry at Kochie over this. I nearly had a stroke.
How disgraceful that the word discreet even comes into play in a situation like this! Men stand beside each other to PISS and we aren’t allowed to feed our babies without being DISCREET?
Jesus christ what is this world coming to.
Perhaps we should employ wet nurses who stay at home with our children.
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Here’s an idea….
How about Kochie hosts all Sunrise tomorrow with a muslin over his head? I’d call that ‘classy’.
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I think his comments and others similar often come from ignorance / lack of empathy. Some people don’t understand how regularly babies need to feed, the lack of facilities available… In other words if mothers can’t bf in public they’ll have to be confined to the home. And that’s totally unreasonable!
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Enough said?
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yeah, and I am sure that Koshie was talking about the sort of image of breastfeeding you present there (not). seeesh, reality please.
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Oh yeah, the women in the pool was probably wearing swimmers, not dressed as “classy” as this breastfeeding mum. Oh… wait….
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I’m currently breast-feeding my 5-month-old son so this is an issue close to my heart. Personally, there are times where I will use a cover and there are times where I think “damn it to hell!” Sure, if I have cover on me (many a time, I have been caught somewhere and needed to feed my baby there and then), it’s not too hot and I’m able to get bub to latch on easily, I’ll place a wrap over my son. But (particularly in these recent Saharan Desert’esque temperatures) I’m also happy to feed my baby without a cover. After all, my number one priority is getting food into my baby and making the crying stop!
Attitudes towards me breast-feeding have been varied. In the beginning, my mother was a firm believer in covering up. This changed when we went out to lunch when breast-feeding was still new and terribly difficult. I had enough trouble getting him to latch on, let alone battling to keep myself covered so that others wouldn’t be disturbed. Bub could sense my stress and the feed was a nightmare. From that point on, my mum told me to do whatever it took to make the baby happy. Feeding him – without a cover – did the trick. My grandparents still struggle seeing me breast-feed in public and, because they’re old and I adore them, I try to oblige where I can. However, as I previously said, the needs of my baby are my priority. Hungry baby needs milk – don’t like it? Continue to drink your coffee, flick through your phone, basically, whatever you would have done had I not been there!
In any case, I do question what the nurse-in will achieve though. Whilst I condemn Kochie’s comments, I’m probably going to watch the program tomorrow morning (when I normally wouldn’t) to see “the action unfold”. I wonder how many other people will do the same, thus, driving Sunrise’s numbers up?
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Two words: express milk
Get real here! As you said yourself sometimes it takes ages for a baby to latch on and I have seen women pull out a breast and try to get bubs to drink and its a struggle. It is not this delicate fairy floss filled moment and rarely takes half a second and it makes people around the woman not know where to look and a little discretion is all that is required. I have seen old men go red and how dare the “mummy brigade” decide that everyone else is wrong. PUBLIC space is just that. A baby needs to be fed on demand we all know that. It is all about how it is done. Show some respect for other people and a little modesty in PUBLIC is what we are speaking about. Breast feeding is a wonderful healthy bonding experience for mother and baby I doubt anyone would dispute that.
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Big hassle.
That’s what expressing milk and carrying it about in a hygienic way is. Breastfeeding is easy and immediate.
You talk about respect for others, what about respect for a mum trying to feed a baby? What’s so ‘disrespectful’ about the most natural of human functions? So freakin what if a mum has to expose her boob for a few seconds to get her baby to latch? If you find it so disgusting and immodest then turn away – not that hard to do.
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Honey, if I sat in the food court expressing, you’d see a lot more hooter than if I just chucked a baby on there. Because you’re supposed to express as often as bubs feeds anyway.
Also, you know how a lot of women have problems breastfeeding? (I’ve been there, too) well, a lot of mums have just as many problems getting their baby on a bottle. My third child never took a bottle in her life, despite many attempts with formula.
Also, the ability to express varies. With my first child, I was expressing six full bottles in a sitting! With my third, I was lucky if I could get 10 mls.
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This is said with as much respect as I can possibly muster but have you ever had to express milk? It can take hours to get a decent amount. If I were to do what you suggested, I would then have to express that exact same feed. Why would I feed my baby a bottle and then pull a pump out and pump the same feed that I could have given him? If I can avoid washing, sterilizing and carrying the equipment required to give the baby a bottle of food that I had right there, I was going to do it. I struggled with breast-feeding in the beginning. I sure as hell wasn’t going to add the additional difficulty of trying to express as well. I apologise if that offends.
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A friend of mine was a partner at Minter Ellison, a MAJOR law firm in Australia. She went back to work after having a baby and realised how tough it was if a working mother wanted to express milk during the day – there was nowhere for her to go except of course the toilet. (I’ve expressed milk in the toilet, and it feels quite gross, not to mention uncomfortable and awkward).
When she brought up the possibility to the other partners of setting aside a space for mothers to express, she was laughed out of the room. The almost all-male partner group pretty much said “eeeeew, that’s disgusting!”.
Go boys. Do your billion dollar deals and charge by the 6-minute unit, and make sure you get back to me when you can make another human with your own body.
That was a few years ago. Hopefully Minter Ellison has become enlightened since then.
But I bet the men still think “Eeeew”.
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On the other hand, I used to work at Blakes, and we had a partner who returned from maternity leave (fast), and while working on a big deal, she used to have her baby at work a lot of the time (with her nanny, I know, a different world than most of the world), started off by breastfeeding in another office, and after a short while said stuff it, and started breastfeeding on the go, meetings etc. Not with clients, (although I did see her do it with a female client she knew well), but certainly internal meetings.
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I’ve breastfed in meetings. Admitedly when I was doing work with NGOs not corporate work.
I’ve heard stories of cabinet, shadow cabinet and members of the current and former government breastfeeding in meetings. No biggie.
Its how this all starts to become normalised.
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Minter now has a Parent Room…small, chair, table, fridge, CD player etc and a solid timber door.
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I work in another top tier law firm. Women in our firm use the “sick room” for expressing milk, and there is a mini fridge in there for them to store the milk in.
When I first returned to work, I worked from home a couple of days a week. I breastfed my daughter many times while on the speaker phone to my boss (and he knew what I was doing at the time). Thankfully he was a dad with young kids and a baby at home, so he was always very understanding.
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I find that whole scenario really sad. A mum who finds breastfeeding a priority but being with her baby who is still young enough to need feeds throughout the day is not a priority.
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Women can’t win it seems with you. She’s gone back to work, she’s Breastfeeding wrong, ie. I can see you. She should stay home and breastfeed that baby, blah blah blah. I find your views sad and archaic.
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I would really love to see how different these comments would be if it turned out the child who was being breastfed was 4 or 5… in my experience plenty of women are perfectly happy to bang on about how natural it is and how it’s our right and everyone else be damned etc… but introduce a child whose mother is practising extended breastfeeding and watch the condemnation and judgement flow!
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A four or five year old can wait. I don’t feed my nearly five year old on cue at inappropriate times. She waits.
No comparison.
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But your just feeding them, so how could any time be an inappropriate time?? Or is their a cut off, you can only feed a small baby who can’t wait in public, anything else is inappropriate??
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I have read some of the comments here, but not all of them, so if this has already been addressed, I apologise.
My question is this: what’s offensive about breastfeeding? The issue of where mums should breastfeed is kind of a moot point to me when I genuinely cannot understand what possible problem someone has with a mother breastfeeding her baby.
I am not being deliberately obtuse about this – I see breastfeeding women and think ‘wow, what a beautiful thing.’ I love seeing babies being held close by their mums and miss those days so much from when I was feeding my own. I have always defended the right and necessity of breastfeeding, but would love for someone to explain to me what the problem with public breastfeeding is, exactly?
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I come to this discussion from a different perspective. My wife hardly got the opportunity to breast feed our two children. Don’t get me wrong, she tried for as long as it takes. Sometimes she was successful but most times she was not. The nurses were very understanding as she tried everything she could and was absolutely devastated when all avenues were exhausted. But the worst was to come when the breast feeding bullies started making comments not about her inability to breastfeed but their perception that it was her choice to pull out a bottle so our babies could get nourishment. It cut deep because they made her feel like an uncaring human being who was abusing our children by not breast feeding. Even when some of them knew about the troubles she had encountered, their comments were less about understanding than about judgements. Our children, 10 and 12, are beautiful, full of life, intelligent and growing into wonderful adolescents and have not suffered from the lack of breast milk. They know their mother, like their father, love them very much and are extremely proud of them.
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Frat, anyone that made this about FF v BF is a goose.
However you feed your baby is your choice and choice is the crux of this issue. You can choose how and when and what you do to feed your child and no one should judge you.
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Perfectly said Mia. Bravo!!
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Breastfeeding is hard.
Leaving the house with a baby is bloody hard.
Leaving the house with a baby, another child(ren) and having to supervise those child(ren) whilst breastfeeding a baby is a complete nightmare.
Women do not need anyone or anything making this task harder than it is.
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Have I not looked closely enough or have Mel and Nat been silent on this issue? I can’t imagine why? Oh, hang I can…we don’t have equality in so many areas…pay rates, maternity leave, not to mention racial, disabiity etc why should attitudes on sexual discrimination be any different? We frown upon many froms of discrimination, yet we tolerate these comments from Kochie? How disappointed your wife and daughters must be. Please don’t try the “misunderstood defence”.
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Mel is on holidays and Nat and Sam Armitage actually said he’d gotten himself into trouble. Everyone is blowing this completely out of proportion.
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I always tried to cover up, but that’s just me… breastfeeding is the hardest things I have ever done. All I cared about was feeding my new, hungry, tiny baby. I couldn’t care less who saw my nipples. I have vivid memories of my husband trying to help me with a wrap when we were out at lunch, but all I could think about was my little hungry crying boy wanting one thing, the one thing that only I could provide.
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I had two very easily distracted BFing bubs. Who would quite happily suckle then throw off, have a look around and latch on again. So yes, I was one of those ‘class-less’ mothers who may have had their boobs out cause my kids were more interested in the world around them. Is this a reason to be confined to my house for 12months after each kid?
Oh, and as for having a light wrap over their heads, my kids hated it and always tried to pull it off. In perspective….when you go have your morning coffee tomorrow put a light wrap over your head while you drink it and see how comfortable you are……
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Agree! Not to mention how hot it is in this kind of weather for the poor baby, even under a thin muslin. I read somewhere that the women in the swimming pool was asked to put a TOWEL over her baby’s head! She was either outside in the baking QLD weather or inside in a steamy humid pool and they wanted her to cover her baby’s up.
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All this constant talking and aggressive attitude to breast feeding makes me not want to have kids! Seriously!! I don’t want to become a mother and talk about my boobs all day long!
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Motherhood is boring full stop. No wonder they want to go out! Sitting at home making baby talk must be mind numbing! Most of the women on the protest at the pool ahould not have even beeb seen in a bathing suit in public, let alone breast feeding. Kochie was right and he had better not apologise.
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Similarly, some people shouldn’t given access to the internet and the ability to make comments.
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Your attitudes will change when and if you both have kids. You won’t believe the things you’ll find yourself talking about and doing and what you’ll believe in. When you grow up obviously.
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Whilst women have, sadly, been subject to societal disrespect, the answer is not that women should now scream their opinions and refuse to listen to any other view; the answer is not that women should be judgemental, dismissive, and make a mockery of men in general and of other women who dare to express another side to the story. Women – breastfeeding or otherwise – should not perpetuate an attitude of contempt toward others – this is the very injustice that our mothers and grandmothers fought against. What is so wrong with supporting women’s right to breast feed in public, but suggesting that there needs to be boundaries and common decency in the way this right is carried out?? What is so wrong in bringing it to the attention of women that men ARE very visual, and it IS confronting for them to see a woman’s breast exposed, even when she is feeding? I really hope as women we can let go of the abuse of the past by refusing to become arrogant ourselves. Of course men can contribute to reflection on women’s issues. Please lets return to the goal of trying to understand, learn from, and provide for the opposite sex, instead of making everything and anything into a man or woman hating exercise.
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Can you please clarify your point below?
“What is so wrong in bringing it to the attention of women that men ARE very visual, and it IS confronting for them to see a woman’s breast exposed”
I have yet to meet a man that finds it “confronting” to see a woman’s breast exposed. Or maybe you mean that it is confronting for men because they are not used to seeing breasts used as their primary function?
It would be very disappointing to think that your comment just further illustrates that breasts have been hijacked by our culture as a part of a woman’s anatomy that is to be enjoyed for sexual purposes only.
Also, I would like to point out, as a society, I believe that we should be applauding those women that put their babies health above anything else, including the discomfort of men who might find it slightly confronting to see boobs being used for what they were designed for.
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Yes, I’ve yet to meet a man who has ever felt ‘confronted’ by a Playboy cover in their local newsagency, or by the sight of Kate Moss or Miranda Kerr in a bikini on a public billboard. As others have said, if someone feels confronted by the image of a mother feeding her child, it says far more about them than it does about that woman.
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Beautifully said!
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The most common-sense comment here..
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Maybe it’s an age thing a bit….. I breastfed all 3 of my children for about 18 months each and did it anywhere, anytime. I believe everyone has the right to do that, but I do value a little bit of discretion. Way back in the 80′s people were a lot more conservative but I had no trouble feeding my babies anywhere and I’m sure noone saw very much of my breasts.
I do find many women today are quite exhibitionist about breastfeeding. I was in a cafe recently and a woman was feeding her bady which was fine. Baby finished and she plops him over her shoulder and tries to burp him and talks away to her friends etc leaving her huge breast just dangling out for all to see for possibly another 5 minutes. I’ve seen this more than once and it’s not what I want to look at while I’m eating my lunch. Looking around most people were looking uncomfortable but noone said anything.
The breastfeeding in public wasn’t offensive at all, but the attitude that she could leave her breasts out for ages after the baby stopped feeding was quite unappealing. Sure I didn’t have to look but her breasts were enormous and she was only sitting about 3 feet away from me – it was hard not to look. My male companion was appalled that she didn’t put them away – he found it very uncomfortable and he’s only 30! I don’t think asking for a bit of discretion is harming the cause in any way – it’s just a polite way of not offending or making anyone uncomfortable.
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Honestly, she probably didn’t realise she had done this! I had twins and when feeding out in public and burping one, whilst hubby held the other would often forget I had my boob flapping in the breeze, I was just too focused on getting the kidlets fed! It is not intentional, I am sure of this.
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It’s quite possible that this poor mother was so sleep deprived she just forgot.
Please don’t turn the whole “breastfeeding in public” argument to focus on the actions of a very small minority.
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Maybe that’s what koshie means when he says keep it classy?!
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I once answered the door immediately post feed, spoke to the guy (who was treating me very strangely) for five minutes, he wanted to get away, but I was interested in whatever he was telling me.
Wasn’t til I shut the door and turned around I realised I had a boob flapping out.
Sleep deprivation people….its an accident….
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LOL!!!
Thanks for sharing this and helping us non bf’s be a little more empathetic!
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Having a “nurse in” at the channel 7 studio is about the most idiotic thing I’ve heard for a long time.
All that will happen is that Sunrise ratings will go through the roof, so it couldn’t be a better outcome for Koch, Sunrise ans Channel 7.
If women had any brains at all they would organise a boycott of both Sunrise and Channel 7, as well as any products that Koch endorses, then had their nurse in at the Channel 9 Studios with Karl and Lisa.
SO well done ladies, through complaining you’ve handed them a win.
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Actually, valid point.
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I don’t think its idiotic at all. The issue is Kochie’s view is outdated and illegal. The more people that watch the better, because it’s creating awareness of breastfeeding rights.
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That’s right hearts, reward those who get it wrong.
Kochie’s opinion isn’t illegal at all, and it’s only outdated in your opinion. There have been plenty of women commenting here against public breastfeeding and some people are genuinely offended by it.
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Kochie’s opinion is actually illegal. Take a look at the legislation. What the staff at the pool did was illegal, and Kochie backing up that action means he supports that illegal discrimination of the breastfeeding mother.
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I have read the legislation. He cannot get charged for expressing his opinion. If he were there standing beside the pool worker and attempted to intimidate Liana or encourage the employee to ask her to leave then that’s one thing. He made his opinion known well after the incident had happened and he didn’t tell employers to make breastfeeding women cover up. Just like those who say they agree with someone who refuses to hire an older worker, a woman, etc. If Kochie and all of those people who agree with him had committed a crime, they would be charged. They simply haven’t.
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He cannot be charged for his opinion, but he is publically backing up a case of illegal discrimination on TV. Make of that what you will.
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I bet Kochie & channel 7 will be very happy. Like the saying goes, there’s no such thing as bad publicity.
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I don’t think it’s idiotic. I just think their energy could be better spent more effectively. When people were upset with Alan Jones’ comments about Ms. Gillard, they contacted his advertisers. And while I didn’t agree with how some abused innocent employees who happened to answer the phone that day, I at least understood the intent and their actions did have a tangible effect as some companies pulled their money. Although they might have started advertising on his show again for all I know. Same with after the suicide of Mrs. Saldanha. Go after advertisers, boycott stations and products… but standing outside a window while breastfeeding seems to be rather pointless. I’d be more than happy to be proven wrong though!
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I reckon the idea of the nurse-in is not to punish Kochie or Sunrise. I think there is a world of difference between what he said and Alan Jones’ bile, for example.
I think it’s about awareness. Education. Making a positive statement.
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Hang on, now a nurse-in isn’t about punishing Koch or Sunrise, then why all the furor? The cynic in me is asking, are you sure it isn’t about for more publicity for yourself or website?
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This!!!!
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If men breastfed, it would be a competitive sport acted out in the open air ..there would be stadiums (stadia?) full of men feeding trying to outdo each other. I think there would also be public breastfeeding stations akin to bus stops. Because women – historically – until fairly recently – lived a lot of their lives indoors. Thank god that is no longer the case but for some men – they are still shocked that women’s lives are now fully in the public domain. Thank god we live in more enlightened times than even a generation or two ago. Go breastfeeding mums living life in the world! Not discreetly stashed behind a curtain or in some horrendous feeding room in a public toilet.
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Bah. Can’t bear the show. He’s showing his age as mia said. He’s always been the same & Mel is either as vapid as she seems or else hamstrung. And as an aside I CAN”T STAND what the kochie’s angels (7) or girls on the grill (9) say about women’s opinions. Isn’t Lisa wilkinson just fabulous though
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Love girls on the grill! can you imagine Lisa, GEorgie and Mia destroying someone if they came up with that. Would have stopped this debate there and then!
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Let me explain my comment further for those who just don’t get . His comment is likened to a women passing judgement when a footballer , for example , who is about to go on the field to play and she says flippantly ‘ well as long as he keeps it classy and doesn’t touch anyone inappropriately ‘, implying that all footballers were molesters . The same as implying all breast feeding mothers should be warned not to be tarts when feeding their babies . How offensive !
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Koches says you shoudl BF in a more discreet way and more classy? Excuse me but how do you BF in a less classy way unless you have no pants on her something. I have seen more flesh in skimpy bathers, low cut cleavage showing tops than I ever had in a BF mother.
Most BF mothers I know are mortified if bubs pulls off and accidentally exposes a nipple and we cover up as quickly as possible. This is hardly exhibitionist behaviour.
The more people who comfortably BF whenever and wherever the better for BF to become more acceptable in society.
I refuse to leave the room if i need to BF and there have been times when other people I am with leave the room because they feel uncomfortable but majority of them stay and continue to engage in normal conversation.
If I am surrounded by a smoker who is making me uncomforatable, I will leave the area.
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I am a mother of four beautiful children all of which were breast fed and bottle fed. When I was at anyone’s house or had visitors at my home and bubby was hungry I would always ask if they were comfortable with me feeding in front of them, however deep down sometimes I felt like I was being judged by them including my mother. She is a breast feeding phobic. There are people who do feel uncomfortable being in the same room however you don’t have to show all the breast once the baby knows how to latch on properly. I don’t agree with the comment of making it classy.
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Koshie was clearly bottle-fed.
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“Koshie was clearly bottle fed”. Now that is one kick in the teeth for mothers who could not, for whatever reason, breast feed. This is also where the debate on this important topic hits an all time low.
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Thank you LJ.
afw, that’s hitting below the belt and out of line.
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OK Anon – you’ve put me in my place. Well done !
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It was a tongue in cheek comment not meant in any kind of seriousness. I am WELLl aware some mothers are unable to breastfeed. By no means was I suggesting their child woudl end up liek Koshie (goodness, I hope not).
I was actually attempting to be ironic, and kind of expected someone would have a response such as yours. Breastfed, bottle fed – the whole point is – it’s no one’s business but a mother and her childs. The outcome is actually NO different. Sorry my point was lost.
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atm…it was a tackless comment.
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This is why his comments matter so much.
http://www.news.com.au/national-old/gen-ys-embarrassed-to-breastfeed-in-public/story-e6frfkvr-1225826439376
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Thanks for that Atom ……. this is why comments from public figures like kockie’s should be condemned …….
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Jamila recently wrote an article on here about overusing our feminist outrage and asked at the end “Should we be reserving our outrage for the bigger, more public, intentionally offensive stuff?” Surely this falls into this category? Kochie wasn’t being intentionally offensive and didn’t say that breastfeeding shouldn’t happen in public, be banned or is offensive in itself. He simply said that it should be kept “classy”. That’s it.
At the time I write this there are 357 responses to this and only 25 comments on the young girl who was raped and then blamed because her alleged rapists are footballers and held in high esteem. Where is the outrage for her and all others in her position?
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I totally agree
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Totally agree with you! I am a breastfeeding Mum (still feeding my 18 month old).
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yep, even a sniff of an opinion different to the what the ‘sisterhood’ expects, and it goes from 0 to world war 3 in an instant.
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Totally and uttlerly agree.
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I understand where you’re coming from, it seems a disproportionate response. Until you consider that most women, thankfully, won’t experience what that girl who was raped, or her community are facing. We will, however, face bigotry, sexism and a culture that tries it’s hardest to exclusively sexualise the organs we use for procreation. To the point where you don’t feel ok to feed your offspring in public.
I personally think outrage is a waste of energy. It’s the seemingly small causes that a woman lends her voice to that will (and have) change conditions and attitudes. We can flail around looking for the ‘real’ injustices of the world, but how can we tackle those if we can’t even feed our child in public?
I really object when someone uses the ‘there are people worse off…get some perspective’ argument. It’s unhelpful, condescending and parental. If you want to fight the ‘big’ fight, go right ahead, but do not have a go at the women who want to stand up for what should clearly be a right in 2013.
As for whether Kochie was trying to be intentionally offensive, I think that’s the point of the concern. This kind of endemic attitude will only change when people stand up and say it’s not cool. We’ve done it with many causes, from racism to homosexuality. It’s ok to do it about women’s issues too.
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I am not familiar with the other article however I don’t think that these two scenarios are at polar opposites. They are both about the sexual objectification of women. If more men saw women breasfeeding in a normal, every day context wouldn’t that help men see our bodies as more than instruments for sexual gratification?
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I’m totally with Kochie on this one, and I’m a lady. Sure breastfeeding is natural, and good for our babies, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere between being natural and providing for our babies, and being exhibitionisttic about the whole thing! Kochie said he was fine with breast-feeding in public, so long as we are classy about it – so, O.K., perhaps his choice of words needs some fine-tuning, but he’s right – what is so hard about using a light cloth to cover the baby’s head and the breast during feeding??? This IS being classy (or a lady) and not brassy, (or exhibitionistic)! And a public pool is especially a place where being a lady matters, being populated by very young children who may never have seen breastfeeding before and will stare as young children do, and adolescent boys who will be just that – adolescent boys!!! And don’t get me started on the objectification of women’s breasts, cos nobody forces women to get breast lifts, or enhancements!!!
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Ah but Shazza, your idea of classy is definitely going to be different to others, and I am hoping you are not suggesting that those who don’t cover their babies heads are exhibitionists?! There is no reason to cover the babys head as there is nothing to hide! As for your comments regarding adolescent boys and young children….well you have lost me there!
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Adolescent boys would have seen way more boobs than you can imagine Shazza. Have you never heard of internet porn?
It makes matters much worse for mothers when breastfeeding is “hidden” from teenage boys. It makes it seem like there is something shameful about it. The more that teenage boys see that breastfeeding is completely normal, natural and no big deal, the better.
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Exactly. I have two sons and I know that they will be bombarded with sexualised images of breasts. I hope that by the time they are teenagers they will have seen loads of women breastfeeding in public. I want them to understand that female bodies are not there purely for their sexual gradification. On the same note I don’t want my daughter feeling that her body and basic bodily functions are something to be ashamed of. It is pretty simple- until we see it all the time it won’t become “normal”.
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Shazza have you tried to breastfeed a baby over the age of 6mths something over their head (and even harder, in the middle of summer in Queensland). Neither of my kids would allow anything over their heads when being breastfed, and frankly you can feed anywhere without covering the babies head and without showing much breast.
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It’s actually very hard to cover a baby’s head with a cloth while breastfeeding if your baby doesn’t like it! There’s no way my little guy would let me feed him like that. Babies can be very strong and determined when they want to be
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Im sorry but have you tried to bf while covering bubs head? I breasted my 2 kids for 1 year each, and yes I tried to cover their heads once or twice. What happened was that I got so hot – body heat does that when you are in that close contact with someone else, let alone with the addition of a muslin (or other) cloth draped over you. Too much time spent fumbling around, baby crying – took the blasted cloth and bubs & I were happy,
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When I go the public pool I am offended by old, overweight men in speedos, exposing their butt crack. No one tells them to go over up, or be classy. A breast feeing women is so far down on my offensive or objectionable images list.
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I really struggled to successfully establish breastfeeding with my two children, and never found it easy in the precious nine months I managed for each child. I actually hated feeding in public because the only way I could feed was to completely bare my breast and carefully focus on attachment. But I did it because my babies needed me and I wasn’t ashamed to meet their needs. The times I tried to drape a light muslin cloth over were a disaster. As for young children who may have never seen breastfeeding before: this would be very unusual… most of them would have been in a range of situations where babies were being fed – with bottles or breasts – mothers’ groups, playgroups, kindergarten… young children are more likely to have seen breastfeeding recently than almost any other segment of the population, and they get it – they’re not confused or distressed by it as their worlds are not yet sexualised!!
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I support women who can breastfeed, and I believe they should be able to feed their child anywhere at anytime. I do, however, understand that it does make some people feel uncomfortable seeing it. But that’s their issue to deal with, and they are entitled to their opinion about it. The people I have the most compassion for though are those that were unable to breast feed even though that’s what they wanted to do so much. As much as I support and always will, breast feeding mums, sometimes they get so caught up in comments such as those made by kochie, that they don’t spare a thought for the mums who were unable to breast feed, and all this does is rub their face in something they feel they were a failure at. Food for thought ladies
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Unless this woman stripped down naked, did a nude pole dance and screamed ‘look at my tits!’ repeatedly, I don’t understand how it was not classy? You can barely even see boob when a baby is breastfeeding. The nipple is entirely in the baby’s mouth and the head obscures the rest. As an onlooker, you really have to make an effort to see any boob when a baby feeds.
Sadly, this attitude seems to be a throw back to a time when people were told their naked bodies were wrong or dirty, and that being naked can never be separated from sex. It’s very sad.
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Agree with kochie , do it in class by covering up your chest with a wrap or similar . Passing wind , urinating etc are all natural habits however you don’t see people doing it freely in public. I am a mother of a 6 year old angel and have nothing against breastfeeding , but pls cover up because we would like to enjoy our meal or a drink without staring at breasts
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What if I leave my wrap at home? What if my baby has thrown up all over it?
In the early days of breast feeding I really struggled to get my baby tpo latch on. It was so hard to get him on and keep him on that using a wrap was just an added obstacle. Now that he is 6 months he hates me using a cover and will thrash about like nothing else until I remove it. What should I do then? Let him starve, and scream while you try and enjoy your lunch?
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Eating is a “natural habit”, breathing is a “natural habit”, drinking is a “natural habit”. We do those in public. Why do you equate breastfeeding with farting and peeing? And you don’t have to stare at a womans breasts just because a little bit might be showing. Look away, concentrate on your own business.
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I am sorry but I find it a little offensive that you are comparing breastfeeding a baby and passing wind or urinating. Further, unless you have tried to cover the head of a baby older than 6 mths old in QLD mid summer heat, you cannot appreciate that it simply is not fair to the baby (or in most cases possible as you baby won’t let you).
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How can anybody push their righteous uneducated opinion if they have not had a baby themselves …….
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So you’re only “educated” if you’ve pushed a child out of your vagina? Oh please, you’ve lost your argument straight away.
You don’t need to have birthed a human to have an opinion on this or be educated about it.
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Hello , I am a mother of a 6 year old and I am disgusted that we are even discussing this. What is wrong with saying that it needs to be done in a classy way???? I am not against breastfeeding but how about covering the chest area with a wrap or similar while doing it? People that are enjoying their meal, drinking a coffee don’t need to see a pn exposed breast. Let me guess , it’s natural? So is passing wind, urinating etc but you don’t see everyone doing it freely. I am so sick and tired all this feminine crap and am embarrassed to be a woman at times . So please continue breastfeeding but be polite enough to cover your chest area because my family and I would like to enjoy a meal
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Zrinka, how selfish of you! “cover your chest area because my family and I would like to enjoy a meal” Why should a mother breastfeeding move just to make you happy?? How is what she is doing effecting your enjoyment of your meal? You choose to look or not! You are typical of some mothers who think just because someone is doing it differently to you, they are not a good mother! Pffttt!!
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No , I will not cover my chest area from my neck down with a blanket or towel or whatever to please you. If Breastfeeding my baby puts you and your family off your meals, maybe find another table far away from me.
Ps, People fart all the time, and they do it freely, even women. I know, shocking hey.
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How ’bout you cover your eyes so my innocent baby can enjoy HIS meal?
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How ’bout everyone just try to be considerate of everyone else! This works both ways, no one has the moral high ground, just general courtesy would work wonders. A ‘nurse-in’ is utterly ridiculous and will polarise opinions even more. There are so many comments on here about breatfeeding where ever, when ever because that’s what is best for your baby….. How is protesting some poorly worded comment by using your baby and your breast going to assist anyone? Is that the best thing for your baby? A complete over reaction to a rather first world problem, in my opinion. Just feed your child and save the grand standing.
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What happened to the nurse-in’s Facebook page? Last I saw was someone saying Channel 7 put curtains up to be ready for the protest tomorrow and now I can’t find the event any more.
I’ve been wondering if there was a protest held at the pool involved. I hope there was and it took place before Kochie made his comments. That to me seems more relevant than gathering in the window of a morning show because a person doesn’t like the opinion of a man on tv. He’s not the one working at the pool who told her to cover up. And from the comments on here and elsewhere there are many people, including many women – some of whom have breastfed themselves – who for whatever reason agree with what he said. Telling someone their opinion is wrong never feels valid or even effective to me. You can try to change their opinion but think of how you are when people try to do it to you. In the instances where it does happen it tends to be because someone eventually goes through the same situation themselves or they’ve had conversations and done research that altered their point of view.
I guess I just don’t understand what this nurse-in at Sunrise is supposed to accomplish. Make Kochie and viewers sitting at home suddenly feel it’s appropriate to see someone not cover up while breastfeeding in public? All because they see a group of strangers in a window? That’s if they even make it on tv which it seems they might not. I just don’t think this is going to have anywhere near the effect that people are hoping for and in fact might backfire somewhat.
* I breastfed, or at least attempted to, for almost 12 months. Never once did I worry about covering up as I was more concerned with if I had any milk, would my baby even attach, all while he was crying with hunger and I was often in tears myself. I don’t even want to think of what my reaction would have been if someone had told me to cover up. So I am 100% behind women breastfeeding anywhere they choose and am envious of those who had an easier go of it. I just don’t get the point of this nurse-in at Sunrise.
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I think men should be asked to cover up. On a hot day it seems I am surrounded by sweaty, shirtless men, nipples perky in the sun. My chest is more 3 dimensional and for that reason alone, it is offensive. Hmm.. Which makes me think beer guts should be covered with muslin cloths as a minimum standard in public..
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I’m exactly the same. FOr some reason women are told to be classy by covering up when feeding but the slightest bit of heat and men, many of whom should be covered, take their tops off.
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Agree with Kochie!!,
Why would you want to share that moment with anyone in view??
It’s awkward for others near by. Yes, and I’m one!! Doesn’t matter that its ‘functional’. Our parents, or grandparents, ect, did it with discretion why is it wrong to appreciate that still in this day and age?? To think its just about you and your function is inconsiderate!! One of my closest friend has had three children and is of the same view. She has used a light cotton wrap for when her babies needed to be fed and you wouldn’t know!! There’s ways of going about it!! You can have some class when there’s a need to feed!!
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Here is an idea, just don’t stare then…. you don’t have to look if you don’t want to. Wow – that was a simple solution wasn’t it.
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If there is nothing to stare at people won’t stare. As Turtle said there are ways of doing it (muslin cloth, whatever) that people barely notice you are feeding and nobody cares.
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I remember my Mum and Aunty breastfeeding, as well as other Mums around the place. I’m in my 30s and not the child of hippies, just regular suburban upbringing. It isn’t like it’s some new thing that Gen X mothers have decided to do, you know!
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Share that moment? Eating? I often eat in public. You don’t?
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It is VERY hot at the moment. Would you like to eat with something over your head? Most babies don’t either. Both of my children would not breastfeed covered at all – and I fed them all over the place both in Australia and throughout Asia. As long as you are discrete there is usually no problem unless someone has an issue with the actual practice of breastfeeding in my experience (which is nearly 3 years in total)
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Agree that it’s about discretion
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I’m not sure articles like this, and women lecturing on about how it’s our right, and we don’t care what anyone thinks about us publically breastfeeding, do anything to change people’s opinions.
Breastfeeding publically, but with others in mind, does however open the opportunity with others for open and honest dialogue.
We were the first of our friends to get married and have kids and none of my husbands friends had any experience with women breastfeeding. When we saw them in the beginning I could see that they were quite uncomfortable so I ask if they minded if I fed (they never did) and would use a muslin cloth while feeding. As they became more comfortable with it, I dropped the cloth but still always asked if anyone minded. Of course no one ever did, but it always opened the door to conversations about feeding. Most of my husbands friends didn’t know the first thing about it, the benefits, how long you do it for, anything!! By educating them, you can see the barriers drop and it become totally normalised where they would come and give me and the baby a kiss even if I was feeding. In the early days, they could barely make eye contact!
People are entitled to their own opinions. It’s our job to help change their opinions, not force ours down their necks
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Yes everyone has a right to their opinion. However, what is disturbing is that some of these opinions seem to be based on a real feelings of revulsion and disgust towards breastfeeding. This will not be overcome until breastfeeding is normalised, in all its forms.
That’s why Kochie’s comments are so annoying. It reinforces the idea that there is a “right” and “wrong” way to breastfeed in public. It does not take into account the fact that some babies don’t like a muslin over their heads, mothers don’t want to miss out on the conversation because they are feeding, some babies do fuss latching on and off, and therefore, someone, somewhere, may see a nipple. There but for the grace of God go I !!
It is not about disrespecting others. You can’t take on other people’s hang up about boobs.
All Kochie’s comments have done is probably make more people nervous about breastfeeding in public in case they aren’t being “classy” enough.
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Yeah I agree. I’ve never had anyone hassle me for breastfeeding anywhere, but I’m quite happy to talk to people about it. Same with kids. No embarrassment at all – why would I be? Quite happy for people (big and little) to have a gawk and ask questions.
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I’m very disappointed in Kochie. He seems to have forgotten that people have freedom of choice, that is, to NOT LOOK if they don’t like seeing breastfeeding.
We women just can’t win. If we breastfeed, it’s offensive. If we bottle feed, it
it’s not natural.
Why don’t all the wowsers save us all some time, and let us know when we do something right??
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I’ve breastfed all 3 of my children and it wasn’t until the 3rd one that I felt confident enough to do it in public. I always used a muslin wrap , more for my own modesty because I’m a bit of a prude that way! Yes, shopping centres provide mothers rooms but 99% of the time they smell like dirty nappies. It’s unbearable! If you have a newborn you might have to sit in that stench for 45 mins or more! I bet kochies regretting those off hand remarks he made now!
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We all know that Kochie has the tact of a rock, at the best of times. His opinion is just one of many on this topic. Some people have a problem with breastfeeding in public and that is entirely THEIR problem. Don’t give it anymore air then it needs.
All of this attention will only add to the ratings of his craptacular show.
Go ahead and feed away, whereever and whenever you need to.
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I’ll breastfeed my child however I please. You see more boob hanging out on fourteen year old girls who seem to frequent malls wearing skin tight Supre clothing articles or on girls in tiny bikinis.
I don’t care if any of you have a problem with it.Theres nothing shameful about my baby eating. You don’t cover up to eat your Mcdonalds, do you? So why should my child have her face covered in the heat, just so I don’t offend you?
I don’t have time for idiot comments from people like Kochie. Don’t like, don’t look.
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Ummmm I guess my post is being ignored by the moderators it has been awaiting approval since yesterday???????
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I scoff at the idea that there were no other boobs on display in a public pool. And that everyone but the breast-feeding mum was classy.
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