
The girls with their mother, Laura
I sat down to watch last night’s 60 Minutes’ interview with both parents at the centre of the Italian custody battle over their four daughters not knowing who to believe. I came out the other side with two thoughts:
1. What a mess. There are no winners in family court disputes.
2. Tara Brown kicked some serious arse.

Tara Brown, outstanding.
In more polite terms, Tara Brown delivered one of the strongest interviews of the year, making her distaste for the emotional, mental and physical manipulation of the four young girls clearly felt. Particularly towards the girls’ mother, grandmother and great grandmother.
Some parts of Tara’s interview with the girls’ mother Laura were a train wreck as their grandmother and great grandmother constantly interrupted Laura whose demenour was…..unusual. The two older women frequently tried to speak for her and justify some of their own shameful behaviour as the situation has disintegrated over the past few years, coming to an ugly head when the girls were forcibly put on a plane back to Italy several months ago.
If you haven’t seen the 60 Minutes’ interview, you can see it here.
And there were some fairly incredible revelations. From 60 Mins’ website:

The girls’ father Thomasso
It’s been the most public and bitter of family feuds – two parents, four children split across the world and splashed all over the media.
The story begins with a desperate escape. Mum, Laura, flees Italy and her allegedly violent Italian husband, to return home with the couple’s four daughters.
Two years later, the Australian Federal Police arrive on the doorstep and literally drag the children onto a plane back to Italy.
Watching those girls struggle against the police and scream for their mother, it all seemed so heavy handed and so wrong.
But there are two sides to every story and this Sunday night for the first time, you’ll hear what Dad’s got to say.
And there’s a third player in this sorry tale: the Australian government which knowingly aided and abetted an international kidnap.
60 Minutes put several questions to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT). These were how they answered them (from the 60 Mins website):


So what did I come away with? Many shades of grey. It was certainly illuminating to see the father give his side of the story and to see both parents portrayed as human, instead of the pixilated non-identities they have been up until now.
I understand that a technicality – purported to be the fact that this custody case is the jurisdiction of the Italian family court – was used to allow 60 Minutes (and some print media) to circumvent the usual strict laws which prohibit the identification of anyone involved in a family court dispute.
To me – and my opinion is based on nothing more than what I saw last night and what I’ve picked up about the case having followed it over the past year or so – there are no winners but many questions and no simple answers.
However for a story so complex (journo nerd moment here), I think it was magnificently, sensitivitely and smartly told. Props to Tara Brown and producers Gareth Harvey and Steven Burling
Did you see the story? What did you come away thinking?






Comments
179 Comments so far
To be honest, I agree that there was no real right or wrong side of the story in this case. As outsiders who have no idea of how the family dynamics before the alleged ‘kidnapping’ worked, it really isn’t fair of us to try and judge the people and family members directly involved with the case. I would like to believe that each person in this situation did what they thought was best for the kids at the time and will continue to do so until proof appears that shows otherwise.
However, the media’s actions in depicting this intensly personal story in the first place?? Despicable. At times they act like rats to a carcass, always running to the fresh kill.
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Laura would’ve known full well that what she did was against the law and she so obviously lied to her ex-husband to co-erce him to sign the papers.
The great-grandma and grandma are also disgusting human beings… the threat to frame the father for being a pervert is surely against the law. Quite clearly the apples dont fall far from the tree.
I find it unbelievable how the media twisted the story to make the mother look like the innocent victim when the story original blew out. It is just one of many cases where the father is assumed the bad guy when it comes to separations. The laws need to change and fathers need to be given equal rights!
Laura should be ashamed of hersef for using her kids like she did and subjecting them to the whole ordeal with the authorities. She’s got what she deserved and I hope she decides to go back to Italy and face up to her crimes.
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I’m not surprised Tara was scowling at the girl’s mother and grandmothers. Throughout the entire interview the grandmother was butting in, carrying on like a spoiled brat slouching all over the lounge and refusing to directly answer questions.
Journalists are human too and that kind of rudeness and disrespect is bound to put them off-side. What’s more, being lied to will put them off-side as well.
A fair interview is one in which both parties are given a fair right of reply. Both were given a chance. If the facts point one direction or another, that’s not biased reporting, it’s the truth.
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I believe Tara Brown was very much on the Father side ,she was smiling at him and so rude to the Mother. it is now 13/1/2013 and the Father said he wanted to share custody. Why then did he apply to the Italian Courts for the Mother to lose her custody which the Italian courts denied him. He also had to be taken to court twice by the Mothers lawyer to get the girls to be allowed to talk to their Mother they can now talk to her when they like without him listening in and making them speak in Italian only. And as for the girls speaking on 60 minutes they were sent away when it was filmed and did not know it was happening. The girls still want to come home to their Mother and they should be allowed. the Father will end up with no one
if he keeps acting the way he is. The girls will return to their Mother and there is nothing he can do about it. Sooner or later it will happen. The eldest girl turns 16 on the 1/6/2013, and she can then start proceedings to return and request her sisters to join her. So wake up Dad and let them go home to their Mother of face the consequences.
Another Mother
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another thing I am curious to know – DId 60 Min pay for this interview to happen? If so it would make sense that the ailing grandmother (Kate) showed up at this one interview and not at any other part of this ongoing case, it’s always been the great Grandmother and the other aunts going to bat for the mother.
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I am Australian living in Italy, married to an italian and have children together. I for one know first hand that you can get help here if needed. Italy may be antiquated in many ways but not when it comes to the law or getting help if in an abusive situation. There has been no reported claims in the usual legal manner against the father. I can just as easily go to the ITalian authorities as i can go to the Australian ones. And if i were in fear of my children’s lives, I’d certainly go to both and make sure it was well documented and take copies of everything I claimed and everything that was taken as my word.
“If” I had no money coming in there are agencies here that assist you. Also you can get a job. The kids were all in school and therefore Laura could have at least held down a job from 8 – 3 if she wanted to. Also how do you live in a country and not know a single person? Making friends is a two way street. If she had no friends then it is her doing that she didn’t make any effort.
DId Laura ever learn Italian? DId she mix with other italians outside the family? DId the children have italian friends? I’m sure yes. THe main part of living in a country other than your own is integration. Australians want foreigners on their soil to integrate themselves as Australian, just as much as italians do, so to me she must have had some command of the language and the laws and isn’t as ignorant as she’s making out she was. Most countries also have introduced laws that prove a newcomer’s language capabilities before allowing an applicant permanent entry.
I have been here in italy less time than Laura has been here and in that time i’ve integrated, learnt the language, understand how to conduct myself in a business/professional situation, have become a citizen and can vote. So I think if a person wants to they can have the tools at their fingertips if they so desire.
Something happened in the relationship, as does happen in life, but whether by manipulation of others or her own accord she decided she’d had enough of him/italy and anything italian, hence why everything and anything was done in her power to get out of the country.
I think her long hesitation of answering the one hanging question in the 60 min. interview about his knowledge of her permanent departure was quite telling: “He knew we were going.” I think deep down she really fought with telling the truth instead of the obvious lie that she told.
It’s fact that my husband nor any of the italian husbands married to Australian girlfriends of mine would ever knowingly allow their beloved children to be taken away from them forever. One thing is certain –
Italians are steadfast in the love of their children, so he had to have been lied to. If not, then why allow your children to leave forever and then fight vigilantly so to get them back. The lie is as obvious as the constant placement of a flower in the mother’s hair.
The children on one hand are innocent in all this, but don’t for a second think that the older girls do not know the success and ability of using the media to get their plight known. Just today, even the Pope gave in to the obvious power of social media and now is going to get the word out by way of Twitter and such. So of course the girls knew what they were doing and when to do it. Why else kick and scream at the entry way to your own home – conveniently in front of masses of cameras and journalists.
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i think you will find that Because there are children involved and Because part of the matter was heard in an Australian Court the rules preventing the identification of anyone involved still apply. The parents have no legal right to give consent for such identification to be made (to protect the children). It is a fairly comprehensive restriction, any detail that may identify the children is prohibited, even (and not limited to) the parents names!
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60 min seem to have pulled virtually all trace of this story from its website and FB page. Looks like they may have broken a few laws.
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I feel sorry for children that are involved in custody disputes and I know that the Australian Family Judge said that the father’s authoritarian parenting method was a major issue and it is obvious the mother is receiving poor advice from those around her.
But this does not excuse the Australian Federal Police of their heavy handed or more accurately brutal handing of young women who had done nothing wrong. To hold one girl face down and have someone screaming we are police your under arrest was stupid. There are many ways this could have been handling with compassion and caused less drama and they could have all flown back to Italy on one plane. I know the mother will be blamed for not preparing the girls for what was about to happen the judge did say he hoped the mother would return to Italy with her daughter and with a little bit of thought and compassion, but both were missing the mother and girls may now be in a much better position. It is interesting to see reports’ coming out of Italy that it is still very tense and the girls go to a secure school and are under constant supervision.
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Trial by Television – that’s how I see these type of stories. 60 Minutes is not a court of law of the land, therefore, no-one has to tell the truth. No-one has the right to question anyone, or has to be answered. It is all done by pesonal consent … and probably an undisclosed amount of profit all round.
Certainly there is a story there which is dramatic, but it is none of our business. I’m not close to anyone involved,so I’ll never know what is the truth. And why should I?
Every statement on a show with a ‘caring’ nodding interviewer is just a show – with paid sponsors.
Please put your brain in gear and just watch it as ‘entertainment’. Intelligent women, I hope you would just take it that Television is not truth – it is just Television.
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Seems one very important point has been missed by many and that is that the law of another country was broken. And it wasn’t some weird, oppressive religious law you might find in the Middle East, it was the law of a democratic, free and modern country, not entirely alien to our own. That was at the heart of the judgements made by two judges in determining what course of action should be taken in relation to these girls. What gives us the right to disregard upholding the laws and judgements of another nation just because there’s an ‘Aussie’ connection?
The Italian legal system might work a little differently to our own, but it was and is more than equipped to deal fairly with this case.
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The Italian legal system is a joke. A legal system that jails scientists for not predicting an earthquake. Nothing like a bit of witch burning to keep the peasants in line.
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And this has what to do with the case of the girls? No scientists need be involved there.
But if you’re going with making negligent comments that result in people getting hurt, well then jail the Mum, her mum and grandma for the comments they made to the girls while they were hiding her in Australia. Surprisingly, as it turns out, kidnapping and disobeying a court order is against the law here as well – who would have thought.
So with a law-breaker roaming free, you have to wonder which legal system is the bigger joke, don’t you..?
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You just said what I was thinking, but was too scared to say!
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Italy is a modern country who loves their children just as much as Australia does. Florence is a large city and I find it unbelievable that the mother could not have found a job and home there outside of the fathers influence. This it a problem to be sorted out in Italy via their laws and the children should have never been kept in Australia. The mother could have filed domestic violence allegations in Italy and it she needed emotional support surely the grandparents could have travelled there. Australia isn’t the only country that can sort out domestic disputes in a reasonable manner.
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So sad that there the parents failed to find another way to sort out THEIR mess that did not have such harsh and traumatic repercussions for their children. Children without doubt lose more than anyone else when it comes to difficult custody issues and acrimonious divorces.
After seeing this interview I am grateful that we have finally heard something from the father. I have no opinion on who is right here, I dont for a minute believe any news article i see or read to be the whole truth, as it is so often incorrect, politically swayed, or biased in some way. I just feel for the kids. What a mess, and how shameful that it came to such a state of affairs. I hope one day, the girls have a chance at normal, functional and happy relationships with their future partners.
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I thought Tara Did a disservice to journalism. She clearly had made up her mind who’s side she was on and just went in for the kill. And as for mentioning the mother in laws holiday in their car – how on earth was this relevant to the story?
Sorry 60 minutes – not your finest hour…….
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Absolutely agree with you re the “Car” story – that was very poor and bias journalism. Just that alone (emphasis on the car story) was sufficient to claim the programs bias against the mother.
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I agree I was appalled at the sell job Tara did for the father instead of presenting both sides of the story in an unbiased fashion. Imagine never being able to go home because you were young, fell in love and had children somewhere else?
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The most disappointing part was the evidence the mother gave 60 Minutes to back her claims, that they ignored/omitted. The people on the Kids Without Voices facebook page put these up today. 60 Minutes lied by omission in order to get the angle they wanted, even with the evidence the mother was telling the truth. Shame on 60 Minutes.
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I found it interesting that the grandmother let her 17 year old daughter marry a 19 year old boy in Italy. Seemed a strange thing to happen and gives insight to how this family thinks.
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Hi Mia, please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t this site run the grandmother’s appeal for help earlier this year? Do you still stand by that?
I know at the time there was a lot of media coverage and a lot of emotion. I thought last night’s interview was well done by Tara Brown.
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Is there somewhere else I can see this interview? The link doesn’t show video
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I can’t get a link to it either – only a short transcript not the full transcript and no link to the actual story itself.
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Here you go – http://www.mamamia.com.au/parenting/im-embarrassed-about-how-upset-this-has-made-me/
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Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF4I_gBfdp4
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As a child I went though something similar , my father didn’t abuse me at all though , we just didn’t get along and I was so much closer to my mum anyway. To think , if my dad would have done what this man did, when I turned 18 I would have so much anger towards him I would seriously messed up. Even though what the mother did may not have been right, two wrongs do not make a right – why couldn’t he have spared this trauma and come to Australia frequently. Listen to what the KIDS WANT.
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The children were born in Italy to an Italian father and an Australian mother. They didn’t even have Aussie passports until just before the mother abducted them. They were Italian children with an Australian mother. I don’t see why the father should be the one to come and live in Australia now just to suit the mother, grandmother and great grandmother. You can’t visit Australia frequently from Italy unless you’re loaded.
I’m very sorry that you had a difficult childhood but I don’t think you can just say ‘listen to what kids want’ because they’ve had 2 years of three women poisoning them against their father. Who knows what they really want now? You say you’d have been messed up, well, I’m pretty sure all four kids are messed up already. I don’t see that being any different if the mother had been allowed to keep them.
I get really cross when people make out that children need their mother more than their father. It’s nice to have two parents, isn’t it? Not everyone has that luxury. Some of us only have dads and I resent the implication that they’re the second class parent.
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I had a sickie today and was home to watch Dr Phil. Interestingly they had a story about a bitter child custody dispute where ultimately the father was accused of “touching” his young daughter by the mother in law. Dr Phil put them both on the lie detector and it showed the mother in law had made it all up to assist her daughter in the custody case. Society is pre programmed to believe that men can beat their wives or fiddle with their kids and mothers are angels. Its very rare for kids to end up with their fathers in custody cases. Even my own heroin addicted sister got custody of her kids despite the “clean” father wanting them and having better prospects than my sister. A lie detector on 60 minutes on Sunday night would have been very interesting.
I’m thinking Tara only scraped the surface on this story. The grandmother definitely has “issues” and the great grandmother wasn’t far behind. What a performance! You can only imagine what they were telling the kids about their father for the last 2 years. My instant thought was why were they at the interview, but minutes in it was obvious why!
On balance, I think the father is a good man who has spent a whole bunch of money to make sure his kids are OK. You wouldnt do that if you didnt really care. I reckon he would have had to stump up at least $100,000 on all this over the two years. And really, would you leave your kids with that grandmother? He has obviously tried to keep things amicable with his ex wife by letting the daughters come to Australia on holiday. The mother lied in the interview saying she told him it was permanent. Why ring him to tell him she was staying if he already knew that? It’s all so sad. Hopefully the kids get through this OK.
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60 minutes on FB has just asked people for legal reasons not not make comment on this case????
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all i see is Tara being tough on the mother and yet gone soft on the father. Tara as investigating journalist has displayed bias in this story right from the word go. there are so many layers of the onion to be peeled and yet Tara is only interested in presenting the story in a tabloid sensationalism manner!
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Clearly we’ve heard the mothers story a number of times & it just doesn’t make any sense. I thought Tara needed to ask the hard questions, I see your point but what did you want her to ask the father that she didn’t ask? I am really interested, I thought he came across well, however I felt from her body language the mother wasn’t honest.
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Have to say I feel quite sorry for the mother – she seems quite immature, and it’s hard not to think that she has been manipulated/brain washed herself by the women in her family. While the poor kids are the real victims in this scenario, I think to some Point so is the mother.
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I would LOVE to have a body-language expert analyse both parents’ facial and body language during Tara Brown’s interview.
From my inexpert viewpoint, I thought the father came across as direct and honest, without excessive blinking and never looking away.
The mother blinked excessively at times, and also looked to the left several times (which I believe the body-language experts say means using the “creative” side of the brain, i.e. making things up/lying.)
But as I said, I’d LOVE an expert analysis!
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I agree. Though I am not an body language expert either, but common sense is enough to see that the mother isn’t quite telling the truth judging by face expressions, the look in her eyes, etc.
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If what the mother says is true of the father, there would be no way in hell, I would be living in another country on the other side of the world, no matter what the consequences were.
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It appears to me that DFAT have aided her (as in the mother) to do something they knew would blow up in her face eventually…I hope these girls settle now wherever they are…and it appears the court has made the right decision
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Tara Brown, thank you for delivering the truth and hard hitting journalism. Some weeks ago my daughter, a lawyer, said Mum there will be lots more to this story, just wait and see. For the mother to use her own children in the way in which she did was despicable. So often, mothers will always win these cases. But it just goes to prove that all too often the fathers, who are made out to be the baddies at times, are often the ones that are mistreated and under valued. I feel so very sorry for the girls in the middle of all of this and for the Italian father. All along he was doing everything by the book when the other 3 women in the centre of this story were doing everything in their power to be manipulative liars.
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good on you for having a lawyer daughter. but that doesn’t mean in this case the mother is the baddie and father is the innocence party. u met bad bedside manners doctors? same with lawyers…..
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When the mother was asked why she does not return to Italy to be near the girls, her response speaks volumes. If this were my children, I would not care the consequences, I would do whatever I had to do to make sure I was still in their lives, nearby to offer support, in whatever capacity. The fact that she doesn’t want to return to Italy to face the consequences of her actions, (which at the most sounds like it would be house arrest), shows her true colours,
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i take it you are not a mother yourself. what good would this mother returned to italy to be under house arrest? why shouldn’t she make a life for herself here so that in x number of years down the track, she can welcome the kids back into her arms complete with roof over the head and perhaps some dollars in bank.
cburss.
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Seriously? You’re pulling the ‘I take it you’re not a mother’ line? Geez, because we all know how well that usually ends up……
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Well you can take it that I AM a mother. One who puts her children FIRST. Children need love and support, not dollars in the bank.
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Legend interview. I was so looking forward to watching it and went in with an open mind (two sides to a coin). I thought it was an excellent interview, one perhaps that went horribly wrong for the mother who probably wasn’t expecting it (grandmother, great-grandfmother did no favours! Stealing a car for a happy roadtrip for 2 months??? C’mon Thats just disgraceful!). The mother has used all the tricks every man-hatting lawyer has advised – cry abuse, cry domestic violence, cry sexual abuse and if you say it many times enough people may believe you! Not! Bottom line, she lied, deceived, the Australian Embassy is just as guilty for being an accomplice and I’m glad the interview gave viewers a bit more insight into the drama which before this seemed cruel (to the ‘victim’ mum). The girls are the real victims, being coached, brain washed and lied to. I hope they are rebuilding their relationship with their dad. If the mum really cared, she should go back to Italy and deal with whatever she has to and eventually be close(r) to the girls. As we all saw, the dad would like for the girls to have a relationship with their mum too.
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Just curious Mia, why all the 60 minutes worship of late?
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Hi Batgirl,
Has there been a lot of 60 love? I hadn’t noticed! Nothing deliberate. Just that I think they’ve been doing some very strong stories lately. And with our mantra for MM being “what everyone’s talking about”, often on a Monday morning (such as today) it’s something 60 covered the night before.
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Roger that, thanks for the reply!
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Ok so some straight facts from this interview makes me believe that the Mother made up the whole story- she said that the father knew that she was returning to Oz with the children permanently, so then did she bother to ring the father to let him know they weren’t coming back???? Seems like a redundant thing to do if he had already ‘agreed’
When the father was asked about abuse, he looked Tara straight in the eye and answered, he did not blink or turn away.
He seemed like a guy just trying to look out for his family, in what is an awful situation. I hope that the girls have settled back into life in Italy and are feeling a lot calmer. And let’s be honest here, can you blame him for wanting to take his children away from a country that assisted/ aided his wife break multiple laws.
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In his original judgement Justice Forrest found that there had been abuse:
Para 89 “I am inclined to accept the mother’s evidence that she was subjected to emotional, verbal and physical violence prior to, and up to the point of, separation in 2007. “
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My mother cried abuse when she was going for full custody of myself. The courts found their had been abuse based on her testimony. Yrs later she admired she lied because her lawyer told her abuse would ensure her full custody. Just because a judge makes a decision to believe doesn’t mean it’s fact it can still be one hell of a lie.
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My mum accused my dad of abuse when she went for full custody of myself. The judge believed her and she got what she wanted. Yrs later she has admitted she lied because her lawyer told her cry abuse and you get somewhere. Just because a judge believes it doesn’t mean it’s fact it can still be one hell of a lie
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have u met habitual liar? i have. yes, and they don’t blink eyes when telling tall stories. cburss.
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Just because he “looked Tara straight in the eye and answered, he did not blink or turn away” – means absolutely nothing. Men who abuse women are experts at portraying themselves as innocent and harmless.They are incredibly convincing to the outside world. It’s how they manipulate and control their wives and girlfriends who experience a very different side – violent and abusive. The the outside world they’re lovely, charming men.
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Mother and her family came off pretty strangely in that interview. Father seemed rational and caring but his daughters didn’t want to live with him. Just a sad story all round.
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I came out of my lounge room with a totally different view of this story than the one I had for the last 6 months. I found the women in this story to be utterly disgusting and vile. I suddenly realised why the father went to the lengths that he did to get his children back, who in their right mind would want any child in the care or vicinity of that grotesque grandmother! I now understand why the girls didn’t want to go home to Italy, it’s called brainwashing.
I may feel the tiniest amount of sympathy for the mother of the children, but it is only because I’m sure her mother has manipulated and brainwashed her as much as those 4 children have been manipulated. What hope could she have of making normal, rational decisions regarding the welfare of her children with her own mother being so vulgar, deceitful and vindictive. But she is not blameless, all people have the ability to do the right thing and it was clear that she had played her part. The bit about the father signing for the passports was entrapment, she wasn’t honest with him about her plans so how could she say he gave his consent for those girls to go home. He didn’t know all the facts!
As for these girls, the further away they are from these women the better off they will be. The courts definitely got it right on this one.
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Also, what is the story with the flower in the hair at all times? I remember seeing footage of her screaming over the balcony at the airport and thinking “In her panic, how did she have the time or thought to stick a flower in her hair?!?”
Perhaps a bit “McJudgey” but I feel like she is lapping up the media attention and this is her persona for the cameras.
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No matter what lead to this point I cannot fathom that a father would forcibly have his children removed from their mother. He knows they don’t want to be with him. Why is he forcing them to do it? That speaks volumes to me!! No mother and child should be seperated by force. EVER…..
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In regards to your last sentence.. No father and child should be separated by force, EVER! She kidnapped her children! She holds the responsibility.
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Melbmum, why should the father have lost his whole family in an instant, why does everyone side with the mother? No parent should have their children removed or be lied to about a ‘holiday’ knowing full well she was taking them for good.
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Please see my comment further down about the girls wanting to be with their Dad.
They only changed AFTER the great grandmother kidnapped them. When they were first interview by child services they ALL said they wanted to go back to Italy. Only AFTER the kids were brainwashed by the mothers family did they say they didn’t want to go back to Italy.
This is why it is important that someone with ALL the facts makes these decisions and not the public who only gets one side of the story.
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Please provide evidence for this claim. The court judgements do not support it.
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No PARENT should ever be separated from their child by force. Why do you believe that this is only applicable to mothers??
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The kids had been away from their father for 2 years from what I gathered – so much could have been said to them in that time to make them believe their father was a bad man.
Hoping that now they are back with him he can prove it all wrong!!!
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After reading all the fuss over this story, I’m dying to see the interview! However I cannot find it on the 60 minutes site! HELP.
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Ditto, maybe it has been removed for some reason
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I watched 60 minutes for the first time in years because of this story and I must say Tara is to be congratulated on her work into this sorry affair. The mother, grandmother and great grandmother should be charged for their criminal offences and lies that they obviously pertetrataed for their own gains. My heart goes out to the father who is the one has to clean up all this mess.
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The mother was clearly lying about a lot of things. I’m not saying they didn’t have their problems but why didn’t she report any abuse BEFORE she wanted to leave the country (illegally). If the Dr. was lying, get their records subpoened as they will have any evidence.
As for the grandmother and great-grandmother – what a pair of trouble-makers who need to pull their over made-up heads in a butt out! Obviously these poor children have been brain-washed regarding the whole situation and probably told THEY will be in trouble if they return to Italy.
What an ugly situation for all and I wonder if 60 mins will do a “follow-up” report in years to come when the girls can speak for themselves and maybe the truth will then come out. Until then, I hope all involved think of the damage being caused. Very sad.
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What really stood out for me in the interview is that the father gave permission for his daughters to travel to Australia for one months holiday. He knowingly signed the forms. This does not fit with the psychology of a controlling personality.
The maternal grandmothers behaviour really rang alarm bells for me.
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Couldn’t agree more!! As if an abusive, controlling husband would sign off on passports for the children, I thought that was very odd as well.
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Exactly! He thought they were going for a holiday, he never thought they were going permanently. This man was deceived in the most despicable way.
Personally, I thought he appeared to be a kind man who has been beaten down by nasty, nasty women. Poor bugger.
These women did nothing for the cause of real victims of domestic violence worldwide. I’m disgusted.
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And the girls’ mother even said on 60 Minutes that she is CERTAIN the father would not look at his daughters getting dressed – HER mother was the only one who claimed this.
Making up stories to taint the father is common in custody disputes, but it is a despicable and controlling action that ultimately damages the children they are purportedly trying to protect.
THINK OF THE GIRLS, you evil women!
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This story on 60 minutes could have been done better. I felt like Tara Brown was snickering the entire time talking about how Laura’s mum escaped from Italy by stealing that car. Tara just seemed to be laughing at everyone in Laura’s family (yes I can understand why) which was unprofessional and childlike.
I really felt for the father though and it’s disgusting how his ex wife’s family treated him. I honestly could not believe a word they said.
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I never once felt Tar Brown was snickering.
I saw a no-nonsense interview by a woman who wanted to put a stop to the drama that the two older women have obviously created around this incident.
Bitter old bats that they were, Tara didn’t let them get away with it – and good on her!
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Yesterday was white ribbon day, where violence against women is rallied against. I find it ironic that this is the day that yesterdays interview was aired. The whole time i was watching this, and reading some of the comments here i have a distinct feeling of a rape trial where the women involved must be lying about what happened as she is not a “good and pure” woman.Just because the abuse is not documented, or her family is vile (which clearly they are not great), or she showed no emotion or didn’t cry doesn’t mean that her ex husband was not abusive. Abuse takes many forms and we would all do well to remember that.
There are no winners at all in this case, but lets remember this: Abuse is not just physical, it is mental, emotional and verbal. It is much harder, and often almost impossible to document the later three. Violence is not just perpetrated in a particular demographic, it is indiscriminate in who chooses to be an abuser so a rich white italian could just as easily be a perpetrator as a poor man in the worst suburb anywhere.
No man will ever admit that he is an abuser, but i found Tara Browns interview style much nicer and more sympathetic to the father than the mother, perhaps if she had been as confrontational with him as she was with the mother and her truely awful family we may have got a much greater insight to the man himself. Which i don’t believe we got.
I currently have a friend going through something horrendous, her partner was controlling, bullying and abusive and never left a mark on her, so how could she ever prove what has been going on. She has never let anyone other than those closest to her see her real feelings and her mantra for many months was, ” i come from a nice normal family and did all the right things how did this happen??” He has left her isolated and cut off from many of her friends. He has accused her of having affairs that have never happened and bullied some of her friends and family members to enable her isolation. How do you prove this in court?? with very good and super expensive lawyers. She will be out of pocket anywhere between $30-80k by the time it is over (depending on court time). If she was in a foreign country and had few friends and family and no way of earning an income, i can’t guarentee she wouldn’t have done the same thing. The thing is, her ex partner is a fine upstanding member of the community that has a well paying job, and participates in his community who just happens to have a really bad temper and thinks its ok to yell and abuse her if everything is not perfect. (i have seen this first hand). And I’m pretty sure if Tara Brown met him, she wouldn’t believe that he was the sort of man who turned the hose on his ex in the middle of winter when she had the pram out and a 12 month old in it just because he lost his temper. No marks on her how do you document it???
My point is be careful saying theres no documentation therefore no abuse its never that simple. I don’t think the mother is with out fault and the children are being treated as the pawns in an awful game. But please think carefully before you say: she didn’t cry, she didn’t react, no marks no abuse. because it goes so much deeper than that and if you go through this type of thing you reach a point where you don’t cry anymore.
Also, Lindy chaimberlain didn’t cry so was therefore guilty. Look at how that turned out.
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My question then is why would he sign the passports allowing them to holiday for a month in Australia if he was an emotional and social abuser? Classic signs of this are a need to control and socially isolate your partner. I find it very hard to fathom a man accused of this freely signing passports.
Also, she asked her doctor to falsify reports about physical symptoms of abuse which didn’t exsist.
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Thank you for your intelligent response. As a domestic abuse survivor, I can completely agree abuse takes on many forms. My father paid for my bus ticket to Sydney to visit my mother, but still abused me. From my experience, abusers are very charming. My father is so charming, he even has my mother’s family charmed into believing that my mother and I are lying.
I also thought this interview was very one sided, I would have liked to see the father grilled more. Why did they constantly show the father in despair, this was really manipulative, making the audience feel sympathy for the father.
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I agree with you. When in every other situation where an alleged case of violence against a woman is reported people are immediately defending the woman and critical of the man, yet this case has done the complete opposite.
What if she is telling the truth?
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and what if she is lying? There are always two sides to a story. I’m not defending either. I’m just saying people shouldn’t assume! As outsiders no one will ever know the truth because we haven’t lived their lives.
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I hate posts like this.
There is no evidence of abuse.
There is however evidence of her asking him to move to Australia with her and the kids, her sharing custody of the kids, which was agreed by consent, for two years with the äbuser”, her having an affair with his friend, him voluntarily signing the passport papers, her asking her doctor to make false declarations, the kids saying they wished to return to Italy and that they love their father etc etc….
Should all of that be ignored because she now cries äbuse”??
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Some people just refuse to believe, in the light of all evidence, that women can be the wrong doers in a relationship. And some women use this bias to their advantage, just as this mother has.
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Thank you for your post. I agree wholeheartedly. I am a bit shocked at the gleeful analysis of people based on very limited knowledge or understanding. Anyone who understands abuse DYNAMICS would be very cautious judging on how things seem. The children wanted to stay with the mother. It is not about who did either parent wrong. Much more understanding is needed regarding psychological, cultural, financial, verbal and emotional abuse. it is complex and the victimisation is very real and hard to show. Mostly abused women seem crazy, because it is so hard to verify and they are often quite desperate. As well as broken down over many years of psychological assault and undermining. I don’t claim to know what really went on here. But please be cautious and become more aware of what abuse is really like.
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my point exactly when i was watching the whole interview. good on you to write such wonderful deduction!!
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A woman says she was beaten and a man says he didn’t touch her….and just because a woman says it, it must be true, because all men are evil. Give me a break!
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I’m sorry but 60 Minutes used to be a ruputable show these days at best it recembles ACA or today tonight.
The very fact that these girls were on 60 minutes means 60 minutes and their reporters have no concern for the girls welfare. Why pass judgement on how the girl should have acted saying her “demenour was…..unusual.” This young girl is probably traumatised. remember that these shows carefully edit for entertainment purposes and the more the family looked weird the bigger the story and better the ratings.
Your right Mia there are no winners here, perhaps except 60 minutes ratings.
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When was ’60 Minutes’ a reputable show?! I remember having a conversation with my Dad about how terrible it was in 1995.
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Mia was referring to Laura, the mother’s demeanour, not the daughter’s. They girls weren’t interviewed by 60 Minutes.
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Can I ask that people who are still unclear about why the judge returned the girls to their father and back to Italy when the girls were saying they didn’t want to go, please read the court transcripts on the case which are publicly available. They were linked in the comments section on the last story that was done on here.
Short version is this- When the girls were first interviewed by the case workers ALL expressed a very strong desire to go back and live in Italy with their father. They said they wanted to come to Australia for holidays but Italy was their home and that is the ONLY place they had ever called home. The girls were ALL doing well in school and 2 of the 4 were in National teams for sport.
After 9 months when the girls were interview again, they changed their opinion to , they wanted to stay in Australia.
When interviewed a 3rd time after being on the run with their great grandmother, they all said their Dad abused them and was violent and they feared for their lives if they were sent back.
This turn around only came about because they were under the influence and control of the mothers family, who managed to brainwash the girls to turn against their own Father.
I am so glad that the judge and the Family services had the foresight to order evaluations on the girls at the beginning of the case so that they had a benchmark to go off for subsequent interviews.
The mothers family should be ashamed of themselves for the trauma and mental scars they have caused those children. You do not manipulate and poison your children against their father just because you don’t like him.
Further, part of the judgement that the Father agreed to was that he would pay for the mothers ticket to return to Italy and he also had to agree to the court here that he would not pursue ANY legal action against the mother. So the mother saying she cant go back to Italy because she faces possible legal action is just another lie ion a long line of them from the mother and her family.
The father has all the girls under the care of psychologists and also let them stay with other family members such as cousins and grandparents until they settled back into life in Italy and were again comfortable with him.
The mother and her family are wholly responsible for putting these 4 girls through all the trauma they have been exposed to, if they really love those girls they have a very strange way of showing it.
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Not sure which court judgement you are reading but it definitely doesn’t say the girls desired to return to Italy.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FamCA/2011/485.html
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Yes, the Judge did find that the girls said they wanted to return home during an interview with the social worker.
Read it again.
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Well that would be the reason they said that, if they did – the social worker. Been there, know how they operate.
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para115 “Although the youngest child, L, expressed a wish to Mr A to return to Italy, when she later was interviewed by Ms E along with her three elder sisters, she had changed her view and all four girls are reported to have expressed a wish to remain in Australia with their mother.”
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The link you have provided is from the initial judgement in 2011.
You need to read the judgement that was handed down by the High Court.
The highness court in our land.
The judge who ruled over the case wrote hundreds of pages of notes and reasons why he was ruling as he did. he made his judgement on an item by item method. he effectively ruled on each any every objection the mother tried to put up and he found that she was making up, exaggerating or down right lying in nearly ever case.
He put into evidence the reports from the child case workers. NOT the report from the person the mother PAID to assess the girls. This PAID report is what you saw in the link you provided.
You need to get the full judgement by the high court and read it. It outlines exactly why the judge, the person with ALL the facts and both sides of the case ruled as he did.
The father even had to agree to give the mother $8000 to help set her up in Italy and he had to agree to not pursue any further legal action against her.
So the fact she said on National TV last night she could not return because she could not afford it and she was worried about arrest just proves she is STILL lying and still trying to manipulate the Australian public.
She should be ashamed of herself. It is despicable behavior by a mother.
Just as an aside, there are Hauge convention cases heard around Australia every week. Do you not wonder why we know about this one?
Do you not wonder why a mother would put her children through such a harsh media spotlight?
Do you not wonder why she does not try and protect her children from the media and publicity but wants to protect them from their own father?
Do you not wonder why she did not take up the offer of a ticket to Italy and payment to help set her up in accommodation AND the offer from the father to again share custody, and put her children before her own selfish actions?
I know I wonder about almost all the things this mother has done in her quest to hurt her ex husband.
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I believe you are mistaken. The report in the original hearing was from the court appointed consultant. These findings were reiterated in the high court hearing paras 26-29.
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Just because the father said he would not pursue criminal charges against the mother it does not mean that she will not be charged in Italy. The Father is unable to make assurances of that anyhow.
Further – in the Family courts decision – http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FamCA/2011/485.html
they did find that the mother/exwife was seriously assaulted by the father.
“At that time, a serious incident of domestic violence perpetrated by Mr V against Ms Garning precipitated the separation.”
It was very wrong of 60 Minutes and Tara Brown to omit this finding. Very serious.
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wait till you hv your own.
cburss.
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Rachael, that’s the second time you’ve made this comment. Do you have some sort of special knowledge about who here has children and who doesn’t? And if you do, can you explain why you think that having children means your opinion has more value?
Thanks.
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Terribly sad. I wonder though, if the grandmother and great grandmother were completely removed from this whole situation and it was just between the mother and the father – would things have gotten so out of hand? Because it looks like those two have done nothing but stir the pot for all concerned. Sorry but those two appeared to be nutters.
Brilliant interview by Tara.
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Are we at all surprised that Ms Garret tried to have this interview taken off air? Shameful…
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Loved Tara Brown, think I may have even proclaimed fuck yeah! At one stage. Of course she seemed a bit biased, their investigations and collected evidence support what the fathers version of events are. Facts don’t lie. Disgraceful behaviour shown by the mother, grandmother and great grandmother.
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I actually felt for the father. I think he is probably a nice young man with not a shred of evidence that he’s done the wrong thing, who’s had his kids taken away from him and poisoned against him. Even his ex-wife acknowledges he never abused the girls. It will take time but the girls will eventually settle and, after last night, I think they are better off as far from Grandma and Great-Gran as possible. Mum is too.
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The part where Tara Brown started asking the mother about the telephone call to the father a week before they were due to return home could have opened up a whole lot of questioning, contradictions and hopefully the truth of the story. She had the mother in a position where she could have kept asking the hard questions but they ended up going on a tangent about the girls and whether the girls knew they were permanently relocating. It was still a pretty good interview and it was good to see both sides of the story.
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It’s disappointing that we are even passing judgement on this issue. How sad that a family court loop hole was found in order to run this story. If Tara Brown/60 Minutes really had so much distaste for the manipulation of these children they would have protected their identities.
Yes, it was great to see an interviewer ask some tough questions, which seems to be such a rarity, but they really were cheap, one-sided shots. Why didn’t Tara grill the father further? These girls have said repeatedly that they are scared of their father. Yet Tara didn’t really touch on this at all, only asking the father why the girls didn’t want to live with him, and then simply accepting the answer.
I also found it distasteful that they had the father re-enact the whole ‘phone-call’ scene for the cameras. It was unnecessary, and emotionally manipulative.
Journalism should be better than this.
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Am I the only person who cannot get the link to watch the video to work? Help please
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