By DR ROB DOBRENSKI
During a recent session, a couple who had been married for about five years decided to end their relationship. The wife told the husband very matter-of-factly, saying that “they had simply grown apart and couldn’t stop fighting.”
Neither he nor I were surprised given they had spent almost a year working on their relationship with no improvement in their ability to resolve conflicts or even increase their interest in spending time together. And, although the reality of the words ‘I want a divorce’ initially made him very anxious and distressed, he agreed that they were no longer happy together and didn’t see the point in continuing as well.
Couples in therapy split up more often than you might think. Couples therapy has a horrible track record for two reasons: one is that the couple usually waits far too long to seek help, long after arguments have gotten out of hand and the dyad has drifted in directions that can’t be saved.
When I first encountered a couple who I worked with who then decided to get divorced, I thought I had failed as a therapist. My supervisor, a Psychologist in her late 60′s, pointed out that I was being naïve, not only about the notion that “therapy can fix everything,” but also that “every marriage isn’t meant to go the distance.”
“Sometimes all you can do is give your blessing to a couple that it’s time to move on,” she said. “There’s no shame in that and it’s your professional obligation to do so.” Some might view this as a controversial take on marital therapy, especially Christian counselors, but the reality is it’s unethical to try to force a square peg into a round hole. If people are miserable together, the shrink’s position is to help them separate and live happier lives apart.
The couple’s recent separation got me thinking more about why marriages so often don’t work out. Depending on where you get your numbers, one in two new marriages ultimately end up in divorce. Statistics are dubious entities and this number can vary wildly depending on your source, but even as a simple approximation, a 50% divorce rate is a scary proposition.
What makes this “1 in 2″ figure even more sobering is the implication that the 50% of marriages that remain intact are happy ones. I see both individuals and couples who remain in the relationships for a plethora of reasons: financial, religious, a belief that it benefits the children, a belief that one doesn’t deserve better, fear of being alone or simply a lack of desire to deal with the legal red tape.
With respect to obvious precipitating factors for divorce such as abuse, addictions or adultery, let’s focus on some of the most salient reasons why marriage can be such a difficult business, as well as some things that can help those relationships thrive:
1) Marriage requires compatibility not just at the point of saying ‘I do,’ but across the entire life span.
You won’t be the same person in five, ten, or twenty years. Your goals, ideals, perspectives and interests can all change as you evolve. This isn’t a bad thing. However, as you move along your adulthood as an ever-changing being, your spouse is doing the same thing. Two people who marry at 25 won’t be the same people at 35 or 45, so your compatibility over the lifespan requires that you both evolve in mutually beneficial ways.
This is no easy task and is why you often hear of couples ‘growing apart,’ or one partner saying ‘he/she isn’t the person I married.’ Like the couple who recently split up, neither of them were the same people from five years ago. Couples need to realize that they will both change and have to strive for changes that allow them to remain connected in a viable way.
The best way to address this together is to first acknowledge the issue. Couples who are considering marriage should ask themselves and each other: where could one of us be in a year, three years, thirty years? What are the potential barriers to us ‘growing old together?’ What will we do if one of us drastically strays from our current plan? You don’t need to have definite statements, but answers such as “don’t worry, that won’t happen” will not suffice. There needs to be an acknowledgment that a real deviation could occur for one or both partners and that, ideally, it will be discussed and managed together.
2) Assuming that marriage implies monogamy, the institution itself is counterintuitive to biology.
Most species are not hardwired to be with one partner and humans are not different. You’re programmed to be producing with different partners. Almost invariably people report that they often feel a sexual attraction to others who are not their spouse. While most don’t act on those drives, many people view this as a sign that ‘the marriage is not meant to be’ or that the relationship is inherently flawed. This usually happens around the time when sexual excitement wanes and it becomes harder to live a passionate lifestyle in the bedroom.
This realization of a damaged relationship isn’t necessarily accurate simply because our make-up promotes the seeking out of new mates. What people need to realize is that the ideal marriage is striving for a greater good than can be obtained in lieu of multiple sex partners. But make no mistake: marriage is a man-made institution, not a natural one. Without an appreciation for the magnitude of commitment prior to starting the marriage, both sexual and emotional, a person can become disenchanted very quickly.
3) There is far too much emphasis on ‘weddings’ as opposed to ‘marriages.’
Pretend that I could marry you and your perfect mate (real or imagined) right now. By simply reading this paragraph, you are married. For women this means no ring, friends, family, flowers, dress, undivided attention or celebration of any kind. For men this means no bachelor party, tuxedo, strippers or Best Man. Neither of you would even be signing papers down at City Hall. Just this and you’re legally committed. Do you still want to be married to this person right now?
If you said ‘no’ or hesitated for more than a few seconds before replying you’re immediately setting yourself up for failure. Don’t confuse the terms ‘wedding’ and ‘marriage.’ Your wedding occurs on Day 1, but your marriage is every single day after that. Can you name any other situation where one would hyperfocus on less than .001% of the pie? Unfortunately, women (and some men) are taught that the wedding day is the most important thing in a person’s life.
You don’t need to watch Bridezillas or Rich Bride, Poor Bride to know how inherently self-absorbed people can become when it comes to their wedding because of the magnitude placed on it. It’s a person’s 15 minutes of fame. But the price tag with that comes with that fleeting moment of glory can be colossal. Unless you are fully prepared to be with your partner regardless of the means to get there you’re missing the point of the institution.
4) Many couples do not know how to fight fairly.
This is somewhat cliché in the shrink world but true nonetheless. There are countless books and therapeutic approaches on this topic that go beyond the scope of a single blog post but the long and short of it is that any successful long-term relationship will have its fair share of conflict. This is a natural aspect of emotional intimacy. But too many people shy away from raising their voices or asserting their needs to each other for multiple reasons: fear of abandonment, a belief that fighting is a sign that the relationship is failing, an inherent desire to not be like other couples who are constantly screaming at each other, etc.
At the other extreme, there are couples who simply can’t control their emotions, where every day brings a new, explosive battle in the relationship. And of course there are always relationships where one partner is a fighter and the other a peacekeeper. Fair, balanced fighting is an art that many couples simply can’t master. It involves a mutual respect for both your own and your partner’s emotional state, a verbal working through of the feelings and issues, and a resolution (although, as discussed, this resolution does not always come immediately).
I’ll fill you in on a little known secret: many couples that don’t ever fight eventually don’t have sex either. Why? They are both forms of passion. If you give up one form of intensity you’ll ultimately leave the other as well. It may take many years, but couples have reported this problem to me time and time again.
5) Marriages solve problems.
No, marriages amplify problems. I can’t count the number of times individuals and couples in the office have said “once we got married I assumed he would stop putting me down,” or “after the wedding day I assumed she would want to have sex more often.”
A ring or a marriage certificate doesn’t improve an individual’s insecurities, solve problems or alter personalities. The increase in physical proximity and time spent together will probably increase any issues you already have. The fact that you have problems isn’t a reason to not get married; rather, it’s a sign to start to address those difficulties and not assume they will ‘take care of themselves.’
6) People settle for less than what they want.
Society puts a colossal pressure on people, especially women, to be married. Without a partner many people wonder “what’s wrong with her?” Some of this thought process is natural, as humans are social creatures and we have a natural tendency to come together with another. But many people who enter their 30′s or beyond without having been married are perceived as flawed, or at least weird.
Because of society’s demands many make a decision to get married based on flawed reasoning: to have children, to not be alone, to find someone who fits an arbitrary mold or to satisfy their parents and society’s demands. If you are making a lifelong decision to meet ulterior motives, it’s not likely to bring to you much happiness.
7) Couples assume they are immune to reasons 1-6 and believe that hard work isn’t part of the deal. They think that love, sex, children or some combination thereof will be enough.
Research suggests that only 10% of couples maintain that intense “puppy love” experience years into their partnership*. Whether or not that bliss can sustain a marriage in and of itself is up for debate, but the reality is that for most couples, no force other than mutual effort can power a relationship. And if you refuse to buy into the idea that marriage is work, that your feelings will simply carry you through, you’ll ultimately be disappointed.
A partnership of such intensity requires a commitment to building and nurturing it. It’s not unlike your physical body: without a decent diet, exercise and various lifestyle issues (e.g., not smoking, keeping alcohol in moderation) you will decay at a rate much faster than nature might want. Your marriage requires maintenance and effort as well or else it will collapse. I’ve had couples say to me, “that’s so unromantic. It shouldn’t be work, we should be able to do this naturally if we truly love each other.”
The goal of this post isn’t to create a ‘doom and gloom’ notion of marriage. In fact, successfully married couples often tell me it’s the greatest decision they’ve ever made. Rather, this information is to empower people who are considering marriage and to help those who are struggling with their current marriage take a fresh view at what might need to be done. For those who can’t seem to move past their problems in their relationships, for whatever reason, I would recommend seeing a professional therapist with some experience in working with couples.
* Why this is the case is not entirely clear, but many believe there is a strong biochemical component to this.
This article was first published on ShrinkTalk.Net. It has been amended and republished here with full permission.
Rob Dobrenski, Ph.D., is a licensed Psychologist in New York City. He is author of the book, “Crazy: Notes on and off the Couch” and the website ShrinkTalk.Net. You can purchase the book here and follow him @DrRobD on Twitter and ‘like’ his Facebook Fan Page. If you are interested in contributing to a research study on attitudes toward marriage, click here. Rob knows the student involved would be very appreciative.
Have you or has someone close to you had problems holding a marriage together? How were the problems addressed and was it successful?










Comments
125 Comments so far
I would agree on most points. However, one things that popular psychologist fail to explain to society about the human brain is that regardless of our ancestoral past, we still have the frontal cortex that is dedicated in emotional regulation and impulse control.
When they suggest that animals do not have one partner and that we simply are not built this way, They are actually talking about the lower aspects of human development. Animals do not have the prefrontal cortex to help them regulate their instinctual urges. Humans do. We are a far more evolved species.
Whilst evoultionary psychology can help us understand all sorts of human instinctual behaviour, it does not factor in the most critical point of all- We humans know how to evolve due to our prefrontal cortex
loading...
i don’t like how people prioritise SEX as the most important thing in a relationship. SEX in my opinion is overrated. Intimacy and cuddles though, yeah baby!
I’ll let you in on a little secret, parents who rave about having amazing sex lives, often fight more at home. Obviously, fighting and sex are both passions so if you increase one, you increase the other too.
Just wanted to point out that it depends on your priority. My priority is having a loving, happy, safe family where we enjoy the simple things in life. Perhaps its not filled with wild passion, but I’m more of a simple person and my main priority is to spread love in this world (as cliche as that sounds).
Don’t get me wrong, I like a bit of sex, but I see it as more something fun to do with my hubby when we get the chance – not as the binding glue of our relationship.
I believe in communication and similar core values as being crucial to marriage. I also believe divorce should be an absolute last resort and the tendency to jump at filing for a divorce at the slightest change in relationship is why 50% of marriages end in divorce. I believe marriages are hard work but the good must outweigh the bad. Ie) you must be happy spending time with your partner the majority of the time. You must feel completely comfortable with your partner, but this should be the case before you get married anyway. Obviously, there are some serious reasons why people get divorced, but otherwise I think people need to put in a bit more effort before bailing (and this acknowledgment should be made within the couple before getting married).
I’m no therapist, but my advice would be to talk, talk, talk, to you partner before getting a divorce. UNLESS there is something that is inexcusable that happens within a marriage (and it’s hard to determine exactly what is inexcusable, because it depends on the couple,,,you need to decide what your limits are…mine are cheating, lying or drifting away from our strong values). Otherwise i pledge to work my butt off for my marriage and enjoy myself along the way.
loading...
How do you cope after being married for 20 yrs when your partner has had an affair for 3 months with the girl next door?
loading...
really sorry to hear that. wishing you the best xx
loading...
It’s a strange coincidence that I should see this article today. Last night, my husband of 8 years, partner of 14 confided in me that he hasn’t been faithful. I was totally shocked to find that not long before we were married he had a one night stand while on a boys’ trip away.
If this wasn’t hard enough to take, after asking more questions I discovered that he had kissed (and more) another six women during the time we’ve been together, the last one occurring 10 weeks after we got married.
We are seeing a counsellor together for the first time today and I am being 100% honest when I say that I thought we would never ever have to do that. Our relationship has always been a happy, stable and loving one where we have been able to communicate effectively, argue fairly and remain best friends and passionate lovers throughout it all.
I am in shock today coming to the realisation that what I thought was a happy marriage is actually a sham built on the lies of my husband. I wish he had been upfront with me before there were children involved. This is a very hard day.
loading...
I suppose I’m lucky as our son is 20 yrs old & has been great to talk too, the thing that most pissed me off, is that he said after I had found out that his feelings for me had been different in the last 5 yrs.
loading...
I love this article, the realities of a long term relationship is tough. I am not married but I am very in love with my partner and we have been together for a long time. Whenever we fight of argue I just want to tell him ‘I love him’ just so he knows this is just a bump in our very long road together. We are both conscious from past relationships that these things take work but it is well worth it because you find your best friend for life.
loading...
It will be ok, take it slow Ange get you confidence back. Take it at your own pace x
loading...
Thanks for publishing this. It has given me lots of food for thought.
loading...
After 16 years of marriage, and one year of my husband failing to have a decent conversation with me, he moved out and left me and our three children. After a year living apart and him battling with (unrecognised by him) depression, he moved back in. Nine months later and things are going very well. I’m so proud of both of us for managing to find our way back to each other, and I don’t want to be married to anyone else.
loading...
Has anyone’s marriage survived a loss in sex and then a revival? We hardly ever have sex – hard pregnancies, PND, extreme tiredness etc – but we love each other and want to get that part of our relationship back. No idea how though after so much loss of confidence.
loading...
Worried,
so long as you and your husband are on the same page about the reasons why you are having a slow patch in the bedroom then you don’t have a major problem. Obviously intimacy is a vital part of a loving relationship but intimacy does not just equal sex.
You will need time to get to know each other again. Start off slow with no expectations from either of you. Start by holding hands as you sit and watch TV together, touch one another as you walk past in the kitchen or in the hallway, this can be as simple as touching them on the arm or the shoulder.
Spoon when you are in bed just before you fall asleep. Talk to each other about how the other makes you feel. Remember what it was that attracted you to each other in the first place, what kind of things used to turn you on.
Gradually you will feel more comfortable with each other again but remember there is no timeframe and no rules, one of you may get there before the other, but you both have to feel comfortable for it to work.
Communication is just as important as the physical stuff. You need to let him know that you love him and find him attractive and visa versa.
As you feel more comfortable introduce more intimate touch, watch a movie that turns you on, explore each others bodies without actual sex.
You will get there in the end if you both put in the work and you both show each other mutual respect and give each other time to get back confidence.
Good luck, you sound like you and your partner want to make it work and are on the same page so I have every confidence you will get your relationship back to where you are both happier and more fulfilled.
loading...
Yes!!
You can get there.
1 do the kids sleep through the night?
2 are you taking medications that reduce libido? Eg the pill or antidepressant
3 are you out of practice? The more you have sex, the more you want it. The less…. The less..
4 go on dates, have couple of drinks, try it out… Slowly it will come back
loading...
thank you so much for that reply. what a generous person you are. i am going to absolutely take up those suggestions. you’ve made my day, therapist.
loading...
jump him?
loading...
I like the ideal of ‘fighting fair’, I’m going to aspire to it! I am too emotional, too catastrophic, employ too many hyperboles when I fight. I think if I could express my disagreement to something less dramatically, my relationship would be far less turbulent. Something I am also learning – allow humour to absolve things occasionally. Not everything needs to be ‘processed’ or completely resolved on everything issue. Sometimes just lightly and affectionately teasing each other can be a nice way to let your partner know you might not agree but you’re going to fundamentally less it pass. I think sometimes you gotta not sweat the small stuff when it comes to a long term relationship.
loading...
I am into the 5th year of my second marriage, and the 12th year since the beginning of our relationship. I love my husband and I am so glad he has been there for the tough times such as my ongoing PND, the loss of our first child, moving countries and of course the struggle and financial strain whilst he studies. Our secret I guess, is making sure we discuss our goals together to make sure we are both on the same page. Sometimes we need to tweak but that is cool. Our two boys also know this.
loading...
What timing. My husband recently informed me that he couldn’t “see it working out” with us, and I think, beyond acknowledging that we got married very young, and fight/communicate differently, that what was missing was his commitment. His commitment and understanding of marriage. Ultimately it seemed to me he simply didn’t want to be married, and didn’t think it was fair to me to stay married.
This did not make it easier for me to accept. I am angry and frustrated and sad, worried and, above all, disappointed.
Thank you for this article. It affirmed what I believe about marriage, and makes me hopeful to go into my next long term relationship with someone who is clear about the realities of partnership.
loading...
my mother always said that the reason my husband and i worked was we were both singel people sharing things. i suppose that is correct in many ways, but it makes lots of interesting things to discuss.
2nd marriage can be better than the first if you just make sure that you realise that you need a “different ” type of person this time
loading...
8) One of the party realises they are gay. This one is also quite an efficient marriage-ender
loading...
What two grandmothers (my own and a friend’s) told me:
1. As long as everything’s working in the bedroom, you can work through anything.
2. Do not separate or divorce in the first year after having a baby. (I could’ve left my husband 10 times over, but things settled down as our post-baby life settled.)
And perhaps the most valuable gem from another friend was “you can only meet KNOWN expectations”. So, never assume your partner knows what you want – articulate it clearly so there are no crossed wires.
loading...
Yes to the baby point. We just had our first and the amount of times I could’ve killed him in the last 4 months are scary. Sleep dep and hormones make you crazy and all it takes is one nothing comment to tip you over the edge. Luckily we seem to be adjusting and I find myself calming down a bit!!
loading...
and if you have twins, do not separate/divorce within the first 3 years.
loading...
So it’s over if it’s not working in the bedroom. Really? Oh god. It’s not that we don’t want to do it, it’s just that we have lost all confidence and don’t know how to get it back after years of rare encounters due to pregnancy illness, PND, just extreme tiredness etc etc. Help!
loading...
I cannot say I have had this experience but perhaps seek professional help and start off slow?
loading...
Liz, I just posted a reply to you above.
Good luck.
loading...
There was this great article published in the UK a few months ago that commented about how the “box sets” of TV shows are bringing couples back together to share an interest. Like, my husband and I have shared a love over a range of TV series together and watched whole seasons over a number of weeks. Enjoying, debating and discussing the plots, characters and our theories of what will happen next (Mad Men, anyone? Although I must admit that my spouse and I also enjoy a bit of schlock gore/sci fi in The Walking Dead as well!).
Otherwise, my husband and I have very different specific interests, although we share a common set of values centred around family and our kids, education and knowledge. And he continues to make me giggle fairly regularly, although I admit there is a little bit eye-rolling at the old jokes he’s fond of repeating.
Fortunately, we also came into our relationship with fairly open eyes about the concept of relationships being hard work in the long haul and that the rose-coloured glasses would eventually slip off. Which they have. We still get pissed at each other from time to time but we never fight dirty. I know that I could not cope with that, period.
We both have flaws, but I guess I’ve decided that his are workable for me and I’m pretty sure he feels the same about me (maybe I’ll ask him tonight!).
My Mum always said that you can’t have an enduring, successful relationship without trust and respect. I think that’s true. Unfortunately, my poor old Mum has never found herself an enduring successful relationship of her own…
Great article!
loading...
Spot on about the box sets.
Thought it was just our little weird relationship saver secret!
loading...
So true, I know many couples who spend choose to spend their quality time – as I have with my partner – watching a box set – The Wire, Mad Men, West Wing.
loading...
Yes!! Totally agree about the box sets.
loading...
For me I think you need to accept that marriage and relationships are not perfect. Both good and bad times pass eventually, sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and get through a rough patch. I quite like the idea of people growing and changing, you can fall in love with a “new” person often yet they have your history entwined with theirs.
A counsellor I saw once said that the word “should” needs to go out of relationships I.e. he should be more romantic, she should not ask silly questions. Concentrate on what is and find what works for you.
loading...
My husband and I have survived the gfc, just. But the downfull is my addiction to alcohol. It is an issue that we are addressing as more than just a couple, but as a family because my addiction affects us all.
This article upsets me because it basically says that an addiction is a reason to end a relationship.
We have been married 20 years, but the last few have thrown curve balls at us. Who do we have to let go to make work more profitable? How do we pay the school fees (our priority).
Those questions and many more lead me to my demon of alcohol. As Homer Simpson said that alcohol is “the cause and cure of” …. anything.
I am addressing my issue and I know many others who are too, but for some of us it drinking is normal, for others it is a problem. Read any mummy bloggers and their need for a large glass of wine at the end of the day.
For me, it is the start of a large and larger glass each day unti it overwhelmes me.
However, is this a reason for my marriage to fail? Is it different to PND or emotional eating or any other reason?
For me, and my husband, it is a journey that we are travelling together.
I don’t want my problem ie my addiction to define my relationship or end it either.
loading...
Good on you for owning and addressing your issue. I think this article meant people who DON’T acknowledge their addiction issues are often heading for a fall in their relationship. You don’t seem to be currently in this category.
My husband is addicted to alcohol, although I think we’ve only both started to acknowledge it’s an issue in the past year or so. He’s working hard to address is, of which I’m immensely proud.
loading...
Hi ‘what about me’,
I think it’s great that you and your husband are working things out. It certainly suggests that you have a strong basis to your relationship and that’s great. Unfortunately not all couples are like this and it is a sad fact that addiction is a factor in why couples break up. Not just addiction but other mental health issues or physical injuries, or financial stress. I don’t think the author was saying addiction will cause a breakdown, more that it could play a role. If a couple doesn’t continually work on their relationship and have a solid foundation, then when they are faced with adversity they are more likely to fall apart than stay together.
I say congrats (and I’m not being patronizing) to you and your husband for working on things and I sincerely hope that it works out for you.
loading...
I am in the same situation as you. I know why I drink. It’s because I feel gagged in my marriage. If I have an opinion it’s wrong. If I am upset with the kids it’s only because I have had a glass of wine. The more this happens, the more I drink. I feel lost. I have given up.
loading...
Please don’t give up. You owe it to yourself and your children not to let someone else push you into an addiction, whether you stay with your husband or not. Growing up I watched my mum become an alcoholic and refuse to get help and excuse it by saying ‘what’s the use?’ Because of her addiction she put myself and siblings through years of trauma and our relationship with her is shallow and distant at best because of how much we struggle to forgive her. Right now your issues with alcohol may seem like they are your issues that aren’t affecting other areas of your life or your children, but I promise you, even the best hidden addiction doesn’t stay hidden and it WILL have a horrible impact on your future and your children. Please, please, please seek out help.
loading...
Please don’t give up. Please. There are ways out of these things, as a lot of the people commenting on here have had to find out too. Do you have someone you can talk to? I’ve always found when I feel lost that I can’t see how to fix the big picture, but I can usually manage some smaller things – go for a walk everyday, get organised, plan some social activities, concentrate on work/study – and once I’ve been doing those for a few weeks, I begin to feel like maybe I am actually capable of now thinking about some bigger issues. Can you think of small things you could do that would put you on track for tackling the larger issues?
Please don’t give up. It’s your one precious life – you owe it to yourself. Best wishes to you…
loading...
Great article – very informative and lots of food for thought.
Even when times were at their worst for hubby and I, we kept having sex. We wouldn’t have lasted if we didn’t do that.
As for the fighting, I couldn’t ‘fight fair’ when I had post natal depression. Now that I can again, we are back on neutral turf.
He still gives me tingles, the passion is still there 10 years on, and he still makes me laugh. I’d like to think that we have got through the worst, but will keep these tips for if/when things start to get rocky again…
loading...
I really loved this article. One point I thought was that growing apart at one point doesn’t mean the end always does it. I have witnessed many relationships (parents, friends and other relatives) that at some point have grown apart from one another, but are able to work hard at their marriage to come back together again. I suppose it depends on how long you were growing apart before you realised it?
My two tricks in my marriage (that have worked so far) is that we always name one thing a day we appreciate about each other. Every week we sit down and “discuss” issues we are having within the marriage and what we can do about it. This communication and appreciation has worked so far! Early years though
loading...
This is my second marriage and we decided very early on that the most important thing we can do for each other and our marriage is simply …… learn from our mistakes… we work hard at listening and kindness…. its not rocket science but it works for us ……
loading...
Brilliant article, the exact kind of article that made me start reading Mamamia. Interesting and smart, thank you.
loading...
I am now happily divorced for 7 yours (though sadly back on the single scrapheap after a 3 year relationship) but my ex and I are on the best of terms, I’ve even been invited to her pending wedding (but have gracefully declined.) However, once we made the decision that none of us were befitting from the relationship (the marriage), our new relationship (as parents and friends) has blossomed. Our son is a beautiful young man who has benefited from 50% care from both of his parents and 100% attendance from his parents at all of his significant life events, like his deb & 18th birthday (and when in trouble at school).
We had a wonderful counselor who showed us how to separate without anger and give 100% attention to our son. No lawyers, no courts, just the 2 of us sorting things out without malice. The day our divorce came thorough, we shared a few drinks together celebrating the time we had together and toasting the future apart.
loading...
That sounds so healthy! I think your son will thank you both now and in the future for a civil separation. good for you!
loading...
Huge congratulations for you and your ex wife’s maturity regarding divorce and separation when a child is involved. I am both a child of a nasty divorce and wife number 2 after a messy divorce that included children. It does not need to get ugly, and the kids should always always come first as it was never their choice to divorce or break up the family. Not that it is a choice for anyone and often a necessity. One of my fave sayings is it is better to be from a broken home than in one. Your son has never experienced this sence of broken as you both have put him first.
Thank you, let’s hope more parents can take your lead and be mature enough to also put their kids first.
loading...
Brilliant!
loading...
I WISH my parents had done this. They separated civilly, no legal eagles required, but I wish they’d been able to maintain that friendship and common focus of the kids’ best interests. It all turned to sh!t once he remarried, not because my mother was jealous or threatened, but the new wife was. And, at the time, his dick made decisions for him. Insanity. They’ve been divorced about ten years now, so I’ve heard.
loading...
Well done, you both deserve to be congratulated for being so selfless in the way you handled your divorce, which is so rare.
loading...
Before we got married the church told us that we couldn’t live together or even be in the same house (though different rooms) at overnight. Anyway I basically said “screw them” and we decided to move in together, even have sex to some degree (wife has issues with intercourse). Best decision we could make. As off as it may sound it was a like a ‘try before you buy’ type arrangement, and even though as Rob states we have changed over the years, it still gave us a chance to see if we were able to co-habitate. All I can say that after 15 years we are still together, and seriously I’ll admit have come close to splitting up, we are still doing well. Is there a secret? I don’t think so and I believe the success of failure of a marriage comes down to each individual couple and what they are willing to accept of each other and of course compromise (to a point naturally) plays a big part.
loading...
One of my best male friends was recently dumped by his wife. They had been together for around 17 years, in that time they had sex ONCE. Yes once. He hoped getting married would fix the sexual issues and her low self esteem, but they were married 12 years ago and they never consummated the relationship. Everything was always on her terms and he became a door mat. When she lost around 60 kilos and started to do marathons and got her self confidence back she left, I guess she didn’t’ need him anymore even though he stood by her and remained faithful to her throughout her years of obesity and issues. Even worse, he went int o major financial debt to support her triathlon lifestyle of flying all over the world and he’s going to be paying that off for at least the next 5 years. Sad but I bet it’s not an isolated case.
loading...
I just read all the other comments but came back to this one.
JUST ONCE???!!!
I really can’t understand that. How could he have stayed married to her, living with rejection every day? Doesn’t that go against human nature?
That man really needs to work on his self esteem issues! I really hope he finds someone who appreciates him.
loading...
He is a really nice person, one of those great humans you think need to be cloned. He’s been a social worker, had helped a lot of troubled youth through different programs, helped me a lot with a psychopath ex husband. He isn’t a basket case at all which is surprising, just a really old fashioned, loyal kind of guy who honestly puts the people he loves ahead of his own needs, wants and desires. I feel really sorry for him though, she treated him like a doormat and he always put her first. I did tell him before they married that he should probably just stay friends with her, they should have been best friends but for better or worse he loved her more than that.
loading...
Can I have his number….sounds sweet
loading...
One of my friends was recently dumped by his wife. They had been together for around 15 years, in that time they had sex ONCE. Yes once. When she lost around 60 kilos and started to do marathons she left
loading...
…….this post was a crazy accidental publish (see post above for full story)
loading...
Amazing post! Very good advise. I have been w my partner for 5 years and we only recently got engaged. The good thing abt having a long term relationship before being married is that u are living the married life; u know not jus seeing each other twice a week. I’m glad my fiancé n I have been doing all the right things.. Including the passionate fighting
loading...
I read a great quote the other day which was “it shouldn’t read ‘they lived happily ever after’, but rather ‘they worked happily ever after’.”
This is key.
loading...
This is an excellent article and so useful to assist in understanding how to nurture all relationships whether one is married or not.
loading...
When I got married, centuries ago, there was a bit of pre-marriage counselling. One point they made always stuck with me over the years. There was this theory about the ‘marital box’. Each partner can freely dip into the contents of the box, to fulfil whatever needs they may have at the time, but they also have to be very conscious of always putting something back into the box so there are always contents to be shared, otherwise the box will become empty and the marriage could fail. I thought this was great advice. (Unfortunately in my case the box was emptied, trashed, trampled and spat upon, so no prizes for guessing how it all ended.)
loading...
Interesting comment re fighting, and how not fighting will inevitably progress into no sex.
I am now a little worried, what I thought wasn’t an issue in my marriage (hubby and I have never had a fight, not one in 7 years) may actually be an issue!?
We certainly disagree and have differing opinions but never raised voices or fought about anything. I have actually never had a fight with anyone in my life…not even family or any ex boyfriends.
Anyone else similar to me and don’t think it is an issue!? Our sex life is fine as well … for now. Eek!
PS we don’t have kids yet, perhaps that will change everything haha!
loading...
Yeah maybe wait when you have kids. Sleep deprivation, lack of time to self and being stretched financially are huge stresses on a marriage.
I wonder how many times ‘having a kid to save a marriage’ has actually worked? I’m guessing 0.
loading...
my husband and i have never had a fight either. we have disagreed about things and had some frosty moments but never ever yelled.
we have 2 children and are very happy together. so far, our sex life is still pretty good too
i hope our lack of fighting doesnt mean we have a lack of passion and more we just have a deep respect for eachother and positive communication skills
loading...
It depends whether the reason you never fight is because you give ground for the sake of not fighting
loading...
I think having disagreements, different opinions and a willingness to discuss them is the key here. Not fighting is a problem, as far as I understand, when it means you’re not communicating, disagreeing and discussing.
loading...
A, I think maybe u don’t fight because neither of u are hot headed?? My partner n I don’t fight all the time but we have plenty of arguements and fights and they do get v heated. I thought this was an issue so we did counselling and was told that fighting is normal.. Actually beneficial. But I honestly think its because I am a very passionate person n can get quiet emotional. The counsellor told us “if a couple is not fighting, one of them is not saying what they really want or need and simply going along w a dance they learn” ( I don’t mean to worry u further) my point is, maybe speak to ur partner n ask if he is getting what he needs and wants and maybe think abt it u are getting what u really want. If yes then perhaps u are one of the lucky ones
loading...
My Husband and I rarely fight. We have been together for 10 years and married for 6 with two little ones.
We have disagreements but work everything out fairly easily.
I don’t enjoy fighting or raising my voice, i know some people who think of it as sport.
I don’t think you need to worry, I think it’s a sign of well balanced people if you can keep it together. Although I do wonder about this “make up sex” that people rave about!
loading...
I hate fighting and so does my husband. We both came from families where the parents screamed and threw things at each other. We’ve never had a stand up fight with each other – we both walk away before it gets to that and think about the problem, calm down and then figure out how to fix it. Seems to work. I’m happy to say that we have a teenage daughter (we both fight with her
) and have been married for 15 years. And the sex is still great.
loading...
Thanks for the tips and feedback. I’ve communicate a lot and regularly ask hubby how he feels about things (even talked about this after posting to him and he just laughed and said not to worry). we are definitely not hit headed and just really laid back I guess. Will be interesting to see what a child will do to that but for now it’s just fine
. Thanks again!
loading...
I think it is more about whether or not you are comfortable disagreeing with each other and asserting yourself if need be. Shouting, calling each other names and nasty “passionate” fights I don’t see as healthy at all! Sometimes they can be quite abusive and hurtful. Being angry with each other and disagreeing is normal and it would be weird if you NEVER disagreed or had an argument but working it through calmly is very healthy!
loading...
Fantastic article!
I’ve never been married and to be honest, the whole idea/institution of marriage does not appeal to me at all. I’d much rather just ‘be’ with someone and leave the marriage thing alone. Why do I need a certificate to prove how much I love someone?
Some of the happiest couples I know are those who aren’t married but have been together for x amount of years, have kids, etc. I think this article just confirmed exactly why marriage is not for me!
loading...
My parents split last year after 25 years of marriage. All us kids have grown up and they just want different things out of their adult life. It’s really hard for them, it took them a long time to admit it I think. My Mum especially is very lonely now.
It’s really made me think about what I want in a partner, and made me skeptical about ever being able to find someone ‘forever’.
loading...
It must be so hard after 25 years. I hope you will encourage your mum to get out and meet someone or else she will be very lonely in the years to come and that would be awful. See that happen way too often. The sooner she starts up new hobbies, goes to new events etc the better.
loading...
I agree. Encourage your Mum if you can. Men seem to find it much easier to re-partner than women. My parents divorced nearly 10 years ago. My Dad has a new lease on life. Unfortunately the reverse is true for my Mum. I have tried and tried and tried, but am now resigned to the fact that the choices she made were her own and there is nothing I can do for her anymore.
So yes, if she works hard to build a life now it will mean her later years are far less lonely and isolating. This doesn’t necessarily mean meeting someone, but even the research tells us that a rich social network (or lack thereof) is more damaging that smoking, drinking etc.
Another question for the ‘happily’ married. What does working on your relationship mean to you? I’m late 20′s single and do believe in the piece of paper but not the big day. All of my relationships have ended due to me outgrowing him but I feel confident that I will meet my equal someday soon. Thus, I am genuinely intrerested in how to sustain a long term relationship (ideally a good one). Especially as a child of divorce! My thoughts are a little coloured by how not to be….
loading...
Ash I feel for you, my folks split last year after 25 years of marriage also, except it wasn’t mutual. I had only just gotten married and fallen pregnant when mum told me she was leaving my father. After growing up having no idea this was coming (our family was pretty damn awesome) it has knocked the wind out of me and it does make you question everything, especially when it comes to committing ‘forever.’ I am still in the middle of it all too but what I have learnt so far is to stay out of it and don’t become a sounding board or a ‘wingman’ for either parent. Those who haven’t gone through parents divorcing in their adult life won’t understand this but it’s been really important to me not to be their shoulder or ear. Perhaps it’s different for you but I just wanted to share my experience with you. There aren’t many of us out there, advice is hard to come by. All the best to you
loading...
Same here, but after nearly 35 years. It came pretty much out of the blue. We were pretty effing awesome as well.
I’m glad I’m an adult (though young enough still to have been living at home, fun) and not a kid. My job is to not take sides. Problem is both use me as a sound board – a lot. I wouldn’t say it was a, uh, mutual split, but it certainly hasn’t been violent or nasty or too petty. And it still effing sucks.
My father is okay. My mother is very, very muchly not. She’s almost completely dependent on me, and I’m getting to the point where I’m ready to move out etc. I don’t really know what to do – it’s up to her to do something.
I didn’t really have an opinion on marriage before, but now I do. The idea of promising to love and care for someone until you die is, honestly, effing hilarious. You can’t promise that shit.
loading...
I’m another child of the parents married for 25 years brigade and then divorced it up when I was 18, due to my Dad having an affair.
It was really tough, like others have said, dad obviously fine (went on to marry the woman) and mum definitely not ok. They’ve been divorced for 10 years now and mum still uses me as a sounding board, and has extremely low self esteem, which I suppose is understandable but I am just getting sick of thinking that our relationship is going to be forever tarnished by her complaints about what Dad did and her constantly asking everyone whether they find her attractive etc
I know this sounds like I’m being a twat an not terribly supportive of my mum who has suffered a great loss, at the same time understand that this has been going on for the last decade so it is wearing quite thin. I just think at some stage you have to stop playing the victim card. I have no idea how to approach the situation any more, I have said 100 times I don’t want to be the sounding board for her and it’s not fair that I should be
UGH
loading...
Love the article. Been married for 6 years and together for 13 years. Got married fairly young and decided to go the equivalent of marriage school I guess through his local church. Was very interesting and I am pleased that we did it. I feel very lucky as we are very happy together and have 2 kids. Have to keep a balance in a relationship.
loading...
Great article!
loading...
best article read on mamamia ever. been a fan since the beginning 5 years ago.
loading...
Loved this article!!!! I am nearly 40 years into my second marriage.
Of course we fight, but we have always decided to resolve issues before sleep——- there have been a few sleepless nights over the years. I have had a few people comment that they never thought we would last so long because we do snip and snap, but as this article said there is passion in that and making up is lots of fun.
The other advice I was given in couple therapy with my 1st marriage was for every negative THOUGHT make yourself think two positives, and never discuss major issues while angry. Sit down with a drink and each person gets one issue to discuss. No comments that make it sound as if it is their fault, no comments about only idiots would do it that way and always work out who really cares for whatever( that means if your don’t really care as much as your partner then let it goooooooo!!!)
All in all we didn’t go into the marriage with the “Hollywood “ romantic theme, we went for companionship and great sex. There was no white wedding, a registry office and a BBQ the next day. The money spent on a new house.
loading...
Everyone should read THE RELATIONSHIP CURE by John Gottman.
He’s a psychologst who has a lot of research into relationships and can preidtc who will divorce based on how they interact. His book gives lots of questionnaires so you can assess yourself and your partner, and gives e.g.s of how to and how not to communicate
loading...
I’m getting married in a few months… what a crazy ‘industry’. So much money and time to be spent on crap – what about the next 60 years without fluff!
loading...
What a great article.. as someone who has been married for between 10 and 20 years, I agree with so much on here… me and my wife have grown apart so much, mainly because I have found myself changing quite dramatically over the last few years.. yet, the prospect of going through a divorce with 2 kids and a house, extremely scary.. however I am not happy.. and neither is my wife.. and we both know that we got married because ‘society’ was telling us that we needed to find someone at the time.. if we were both single now and met each other, there is absolutely no way we would be together..
Once again, a great article..
loading...
Wow indeed!
So, what do you think you’ll do? Do you think you’ll still be together in, say, five years’ time?
loading...
I very much doubt it.. we have a few things that need to be done at the moment, so it would be too messy to split now.. but for the sake of our sanity, and for the sake of our own lives, we need to go our separate ways.. we don’t argue much, and there is no shouting so the kids are not exposed to an unhappy household.. in fact there is a huge amount of love and affection in the house.. just not between the adults.. so I hope the kids will be fine..
loading...
This post makes me feel better about being single and holding out for the right person for me.
I also think learning how to fight fairly and resolve conflict is crucial in making your relationship work long-term.
loading...
This is all so true. I married at 25, divorced at 42. My ex husband spent more time with his golf clubs than me. Do I have regrets? yes – especially knowing that my now 12 year old son has NEVER known mum and dad together as a couple.
loading...
I think a reason marriages tend to fail is that society has drummed into us the lie that the most important thing in the world is to be happy, which is completely unrealistic and unattainable- in life, in relationships you won’t always be happy- you have to get over yourself and make sure someone else’s needs are met. It feels like a truth, though, because being happy is what everyone seems to want and is universal in describing a successful life. This excuse is used in reasons for divorce quite commonly. You hear people – mainly celebrities – say things like “well he wasn’t making me happy and he wasn’t meeting my needs”
I know there is usually more to it than that and full disclosure: I’ve never been married so I don’t know first hand how hard it is for some people, but I really believe if we dedicate our lives from the word go to another person and make a choice everyday to put our spouses needs before our own and concentrate less on our own pursuit of happiness, maybe our marriages might be stronger and more content. Just my two cents.
loading...
I think it’s also about this ‘me me me’ mentality – what am I getting rather than what am I giving? Yes some people would take advantage of this and some would give so much to their own detriment, but in a healthy way, I think this attitude can go a long way in a relationship.
loading...
Great comment. I’ve been married nearly 15 years and I totally agree with what you have said.
loading...
Yeah your right … in a way. I think this could be said more positively though.
I think you have to want to help someone – so you have to want to put their needs before yours, which might not necessarily make you happy in one way. But the actual action of helping them/meeting their needs must make you happy. So in the end … you’re both happy! But both parties need to be able to do this. There’s nothing worse than doing everything you can for your partner because you love them and it’s what you want to do, but they aren’t willing to do the same in return.
loading...
I meant that you choose to put the other person first even if you don’t feel like it, cause you won’t always feel like it. I agree that you become happy making someone else happy and it is a bit of a risk since there is no guarantee the other person is going to live up to their end and that is where it can all fall over!
loading...
I completely disagree that happiness is unrealistic and unattainable.
I am 100% completely happy. I dont try to be. I just am.
And because my happiness does not rely on another person I am able to be in a loving partnership as a complete individual.
I would never hold anyone else responsible for my happiness and nor would I expect theirs to be dependent on me!
loading...
I get what you’re saying but what I mean is that I believe it is unrealistic to be happy all the time but it is realistic and to be content- cause I absolutely am!
Happiness is an emotion and it comes and goes with life happenings. Contentment is inner peace that situations and life events should not mess with that
I didn’t mean to imply that your happiness should be found in another person. That is a flawed concept- you have to be content with yourself first!
loading...
I agree. You can’t be responsible for someone else’s happiness. Another reason my last relationship ended. He was trying so hard to make me happy but it was actually me that was responsible for our happiness. Ironic. Everyone need to take responsibility for their own emotional well being. A loving relationship is just a bonus then.
loading...
I heard a sex therapist on the radio who said that just like we would aim to say ten positive things to our partner to counteract one negative, we need to realise how powerful our non-verbals are, and give ten loving glances/ gestures/ touches to counteract one negative.
For marriage preparation, you could try a course called ‘prepare’ which has you fill in an online survey and then look at the results with a relationships counsellor. The questions are great eg. ‘do you think your partner thinks you spend too much money?’
If you go it alone, make sure you talk about in-laws, sex and money.
loading...
My best advise would be to have a open discussion before you go into marriage about: babies, child raising values (discipline, schooling, religion etc), in laws, structure of your finances and even basic things like sharing (or not) of cleaning and cooking duties.
loading...
I second this suggestion to do a “Prepare” course as a form of marriage preparation. There are also courses run through Relationships Australia and church agencies (depending on whether it’s a church wedding or not). My husband and I did both kinds of marriage preparation – he even flew interstate to attend the course – and we found them invaluable. It amazes me that couples put so much time and effort into planning the wedding instead of concentrating on the actual marriage. Parenting and marriage seem to be the only things in life where people are not required to do a course (eg, driving instruction, university/TAFE for jobs … the list is endless). It’s worth it if it weddings are either postponed and cancelled as a result of doing a marriage preparation course, which may be sad at the time but it’s better than down the track after the wedding, especially if children are involved.
loading...
A friend of mine who is currently in couples therapy told me this week that she received some great advice. The therapist said anytime you want to say something negative to your partner you have to first give a compliment, then say the negative and then finish it with another compliment. It is much more likely to be taken well then just bursting out with the negative as soon as you start talking.
loading...
Hmm, that would condition me to ultimately be wary of compliments, because they will come with a negative comment attached to them….
loading...
Hi guest, she didn’t mean follow up every single compliment with a negative! Just in specific situations when you’re trying to tell your partner something that might be hard for them to hear.
The specific case my friend had mentioned was that she had cooked an anniversary meal for her husband (she had gone to a lot of effort) and he didn’t like the meal. When she asked him if he liked it, he was honest and said No. They ended up arguing and my friend mentioned it to the therapist at their next session. The therapist suggested that next time instead of just saying ”No, I didn’t like it” he could lead into it by paying her a compliment first like ”Thank you for going to so much trouble tonight. I think it was too spicy for my taste buds, but I love that you tried a new recipe just for me!”.
The therapist said to ”sandwich” the negative in between two positives so that the receiver would be more likely to accept the negative.
loading...
This is similar to some great advice a friend gave me once – he calls it the ‘sugar shit sugar’ approach.
loading...
I think another really important issue is:
when an external party to the relationship between two people (most often a relative and especially in-laws, but can also be a friend or an ex) are given priority or allowed to intrude in some way into the relatiosnhip, and particularly when they affect middle to major decisions for the couple. Your partner must be person number 1 in your life (other than yourself) for it to work out.
It can also apply when the ex is long-absent but remaining damage can cause a partner to make decisions in their new relationship based on the prior split or simply ‘doing the opposite’ rather than just be themselves and relax.
loading...
This is such a great point, I agree 100%.
loading...
I thought this was a great article. I am getting married next year and at that stage we will have been together for six years. Even in that space of time we have both changed and we have had to reassess what we want from life and make compromises.
I have to say I am really enjoying the journey and have found our relationship gets better as we go along. It has its ups and downs but I find every time we work through a problem I feel we are a little bit closer. We have sat down in the past and had very serious conversations about breaking up when it seemed that we wanted different things. However, in that talk we had some very honest communication about what we each needed to have in our lives to feel fulfilled and we were able to work out a solution that satisfied both of us. I think once you have solved an issue like this it makes you feel more confident that you can do it in the future.
I am also learning more about my fiance’s personality and what makes him feel bad and what builds him up and he is learning the same about me. There are a bunch of little things we both do now to better accomodate the others feelings and personality which have lead to a better relationship. As it says in the article it seems more productive to view a relationship as something that grows and changes over time. Kind of like a pot plant really. You don’t just stick a plant in a pot and expect it will stay like that forever. (I need to stop now because I can crap on with analogies forever. Best I don’t get on a roll with this one.)
loading...
When each partner views their spouse’s wants needs and desires AS important as their own, then the marriage cannot fail. Because each will be looking after the other.
Lets face it, we are selfish. Its been the downfall of not only marriages but also societies, countries, the world as a whole. Once we start to think outside of ourselves are realize that by each taking care of each other we also get our own needs met, then we are onto the winning formula. It’s called ‘mutual reciprocity’ – it could transform the world.
loading...
Wise words on want to take on board.
loading...
Agreed!
I feel like this is an issue in my marriage. Sometimes it feels like we’re competing against each other and being selfish, rather than being kind, considerate and generous to the other person.
loading...
Agreed. This is an issue in my marriage where I feel I am always going out of my way for his needs and he takes it for granted and does not reciprocate at all
loading...
Interesting article. Thanks for sharing.
My partner and I are thinking of getting married soon. I had thought of doing pre-marital counselling. Has anyone else tried anything like that before?
We have very different communication styles and often clash, and part of me worries that this could be an issue in the future. I’d be interested to know if anyone has done couples counselling… long before they feel like they’re in trouble, and if it was worthwhile?
loading...
All of my family has been married in a church (catholic) and you must do the counselling/pre-marriage course before the wedding. Even my father, who is not religious, agreed that the pre-marrige counselling by the church (35 years ago) was good. It just pointed out the things that you should talk about – didn’t tell you what you should do, just opened the questions for you to sort out yourselves. My sister and her husband, and some friends of mine all thought the same.
loading...
Yes, do it! Ask your celebrant/minister for details, or ring Relationships Australia. We did the couples counselling and also a marriage preparation course. Both were invaluable!
loading...
Do it! Just do it! You don’t have to be religious. Seriously, it should be a requirement before they hand out marriage licenses
loading...
Hi, this is an article I wrote about pre-marital therapy. I hope it helps:
http://shrinktalk.net/?p=1796
loading...
I am getting married next Saturday, so this is very timely! Thanks, a very good read
loading...
Hi, I read Mamamia every day at lunch. I Love it!
What I am after is a recommendation of a good marriage councellor.
Second marriage. Older children – brady bunch scenario. Bagage, We are older – but that doesn’t necessarily mean wiser.
Can anyone Please help with the name of a good marriage councellor in Sydney city or northern suburbs or Sydney.
Thank you…..
loading...
I hear you, 2nd marriage, his kids, my kids, his stuff, my stuff, our stuff. His kids issues, my kids issues. X’s in the picture, child support, family functions. He works away so i have to parent his kids…………..it takes time, it gets to a point and calms down again then gets to a point and the cycle is endless but thats just what family is.
Its good to talk about things and understand each other, good luck with the counselling.
loading...
You’ve said exactly whats happening.
Still open for recommended marriage councellors….
loading...
Hi Nik
I recommend Eva Fera, she is in Pyrmont but also works in Kirribilly on Saturdays. http://sanctuary.sanitarium.com.au
She is very straight talking which some people may not like but it works for me! Good luck x
loading...
I recommend Denise Cook.. she is brilliant.. she is in Crows Nest.. number is 9460 7091.. Good luck!!
loading...
Contact Relationships Australia. They should be able to help or refer you to someone in your area.
loading...