I currently live in a share house in London with 5 other men (boys?) in their mid-20s.
Every evening they can be found either:
a. Watching soccer.
b. Playing Xbox.
c. Talking about soccer.
d. Eating take away.
e. A combination of b,c and d.
This house is equal parts crazy and marvelous – but I diverge!
On Friday, I came home to an extremely raucous poker party. There were cards and chips and testosterone flying everywhere. The music was up and the beer was flowing. I grabbed one and joined the girls on the couch. Nice.
Between poker hands, the ad came on.
It literally brought the party to a standstill and then tore it in two. I believe the comment was, “Oh come on! It’s 20 per cent the girl’s fault.” At first, I thought it was a (sick) joke. But he went on… “Leading a guy into a bedroom can only mean one thing.” One of the young women sitting beside me partly agreed, “It’s definitely rape, but that girl shouldn’t be so naïve.”
Oh man. You should have seen the reaction. This guy was absolutely shut down by the girls and guys at the party:
“That is ridiculous man.”
“No means no. No. Matter. What.”
“It’s black and white. If she says no, it’s rape.”
“It is entirely his fault, it’s completely unacceptable…” etc etc etc
I was mostly proud for the sisterhood. I was also appalled that the comment was made in the first place.
But the fact that this one ad triggered such a heated debate in such an unexpected setting felt like a victory. And it made me wonder why such a persuasive ad isn’t being shown in Australia and across the globe for that matter…
Steph is a 25 year old television news producer/journalist from Sydney, currently freelancing in London and exploring Europe. She tweets at @StephBoulet
Please note if this post or any of the comments bring up any issues for you, or if you need to speak to someone please call the NSW Rape Crisis Centre on 1800 424 017. It does not matter where about you live in Australia, they will take your call and, if need be, refer you to a service closer to home.
Do you think the ad is effective? Would you like to see it aired in Australia?
Comments
210 Comments so far
In a session with young footy players run by some wonderul retired players, they showed a similar scenario; a drunk young woman going back to a guy’s place with a group of people, and being assaulted in a bedroom. Sadly, many of the young players watching had plenty of blame for the woman for going there.
They then showed the EXACT same scenario, but a young MAN, instead, is assaulted in a bedroom. The players were outraged, “just because he went back there, he didn’t agree for that to happen!”
EXACTLY.
loading...
That is very clever. I hope they learned the lesson.
loading...
That’s a very powerful exercise right there.
loading...
Absolutely. No means no !
loading...
I feel relieved when I hear these views strongly expressed by men, Bradley. I think that if the “no means no” mantra is to be the dominant view of our whole society then it needs to be advocated by both men and women. Personally, I would like to see more men stand up.
loading...
This is definitely huge issue in Australia particularly in teenagers. Progressive consent needs to be emphasised. Many people still believe they owe something or are owed something because they accepted/bought a drink, went somewhere quiet, flirted, wore revealing clothes, consensually partook in other sexual contact.
I became really aware of it after reading a damning fb post by a young girl I used to teach regarding a girl who she felt was ‘teasing’ her bf by sometimes consenting to sexual activity and sometimes not. The message that consent is required for every act, every time and that every person is absolutely right to demand respect for their body and feeling is vital. No one is obliged to have sex ever and no one is allowed to ignore ‘no’ under any terms. Sex education needs to be dramatically overhauled and I do think that ads such as this one would help get that ball rolling.
loading...
I felt sick in the stomach watching that ad. Very powerful. How sad that it needs to be made in the first place.
loading...
No means No, but when women have consensual sex then cry rape afterwards, ie the 19 year old woman who had sex with Matthew Johns [edited by MM] and his team, bragged about it then cried rape, I get angry.
loading...
Just because a woman says Yes to man A or B, or even man A and B, doesn’t mean she has said Yes to C, D, F, G, etc. That’s what that case was about.
loading...
Well Lulu if that was the case, why was she boasting over the following week on conquering the whole team. That to me is not rape.
loading...
Unless you were there you don’t know what happened. You aren’t able to judge if she was raped or not.
loading...
I agree, but common sense would say that if you were traumatised from a rape you would not brag about it to your work colleagues. Does not make sense, and if it does not make sense, it isnt true.
loading...
People who are victims of violent crime react in different ways. Perhaps she was ashamed so she decided to try and claim back her power and behave as if she was in control of the whole thing. Maybe she was abused as a kid and this was her way of coping. You don’t know.
I’m not saying she was or wasn’t, because I don’t know. Neither do you. We only know what the media reports, which is always a distorted version of what people say anyway.
loading...
Are you quoting Judge Judy? I think you’ll find that she actually says “If something doesn’t make sense, it’s usually not true.”.
Unfortunately there are oodles of things in this world that don’t make sense and are true.
loading...
The amount of false rape accusations would be extremely low- especially when compared to the rate of un-reported rapes. The vilification that women who report rape experience in many cases, especially high profile ones, is unfortunately enough to put many off reporting in the first place.
I also think the brain does amazing things to try to comprehend traumatic events- I suspect in the initial days after such an event one might try psychologically to sort it out and protect ones self from the impact of the event by going into an almost denial state- in this case maybe she tried to convince herself that she was in control and enjoyed herself, hence her initial reaction, but after a few days she was no longer able to fool herself that this was the case? It would not be an uncommon psychosocial defence mechanism in such a situation. But none of us have all the facts of the case- it’s all just conjecture
This is definitely an area that needs to be discussed more, especially in teens/young adults- as illustrated by the response of Steph’s housemate
loading...
How can anyone state definatively that the amount of false rape accusations is low when many cases are thrown out of court. There have been quite a few high profile cases recently. Smacks of the sisterhood refusing to face reality to me
loading...
Not all rapes are reported in the media. Very few are. If you’re getting your information from what the media covers then you are very misinformed.
loading...
I was once date raped, and I was so ashamed for having gone back to the guy’s place when I was drunk, that after it happened I tried to make myself believe that it was what I wanted even though I had said no just like the girl in the ad above. The next day when my friends asked me about what happened, I told them we had sex. When they pressured me for more details about it, I sort of made things up, like that I enjoyed it. It took me nearly 3 years to get over that night. I was so depressed and thought about killing myself a lot. I saw a psychologist, and when I stopped blaming myself for not only the rape, but the way I reacted after it, I was able to recover somewhat. It’s still difficult for me to think about to this day and was probably the most defining moment of my life.
It so upsets me to read about everyone’s victim blaming, especially with regard to that Andrew John’s case. When that case surfaced, so much stuff was brought up for me again. Hearing those around me call that girl a slut, and that she deserved it, hurt so much for me, because they may as well have been saying it about me.
loading...
I am sorry that this happened to you, however I honestly think it was crazy on your behalf to tell people a different version of events. Could it have been that you were drunk, had sex with him and felt guilty afterwards that you did ? I just find it hard to buy a story that a woman is raped then tells her friends she enjoyed it. Sorry
loading...
No one wants to be a victim and I can’t believe your cold reaction to try and convince the previous Anon that she is wrong or even lying to herself about something that was so traumatic and shaping in her life.
loading...
“I just find it hard to buy a story that a woman is raped then tells her friends she enjoyed it.”
That whooshing sound you can hear is the point flying far, far over your head.
loading...
Wow I’m actually a little offended right now. Someone just shared something very personal and tragic and then the truth of their story was questioned. No she didn’t just get drunk and regret it anonymous. It is what rape victims both male and female do. They blame themselves and to cope alot of the times manipulate the truth to hide what’s happened. I am lucky to have never been raped but i did find myself in a compromising situation with a man where I was pinned down and he tried to force himself on me. I said no, I threatened to scream and he said noone would hear me and I wanted it. I was so trapped and powerless that at one point I said fine get it over with then. Is that consent? I was so lucky… He stopped and ran away when i said the words to him ‘you realise you are about to rape me’. I blamed myself and didn’t tell anyone for years. I even had further contact with the guy because it was a high school party. I feel so much for you anon and thanks for sharing your story. I am glad you have reached a point that you no longer blame yourself. I just ask in a discussion like this we can all be adults and not pretend to understand what is or isn’t ‘normal’ victim behavior.
loading...
Did you seriously just argue with an anonymous person on the internet about whether she was raped or not?
I find that amazingly offensive. Why are you assuming to know better than the person who was raped if she was raped or not???
You clearly have no idea whatsoever about human behaviour following sexual assault. You should keep your opinions to yourself if this is what you feel is acceptable to not only think, but then actually type and press send.
loading...
That’s an awful thing to say, Anonymous. Why are you so keen to make excuses for rape?
loading...
You’re not voicing your opinion on the issue of rape in general anonymous you are asking someone who has been raped if they were REEALLY raped. I don’t care who you know, that has no bearing on her story. You sound like you’re in disbelief anybody actually gets raped, like it’s all just misunderstandings or vengeful crazy women.
loading...
Victim blaming not on. Ever
Of course we are free to share opinion but we can never say why someone behaved the way that they did in a certain situation.
loading...
That is the most offensive and insensitive remark I have ever read. Shame on you.
loading...
And exactly when was it that you had your empathy bypass again?
loading...
You obviously do not understand. This woman has just confessed something very personal and raw. Less judgement. More compassion.
loading...
What a horrible, insensitive, awful thing to say. Shame on you.
loading...
Doesn’t make sense to you, you mean. Because you’re clearly insensitive with no understanding of the variations of human behaviour following trauma. But hey, you keep asking people if they’re SURE they were raped because it doesn’t make sense to you. We wouldn’t want you to be put out or uncomfortable about the way someone behaves after they’ve been raped now would we.
loading...
Clearly peer pressure or needing to appear tougher/stronger/cooler than you actually has never been a feature of your life. How lucky for you.
loading...
I don’t particularly like either Johns brother but to clarify it was Matthew Johns in the sex scandal – not Andrew.
loading...
Comments like the ones going on in this particular thread (not you, Tracey, can’t comment on one below your comment) are why Mamamia needs down votes to alert moderators of comments that should be removed.
loading...
@Lola:
Yes, it was guilt. I felt guilty that I had let it happen to me. It was shame. I was ashamed that I had gotten drunk and gone back to his place – I should have known better. There was so much guilt and so much shame that I couldn’t handle anyone knowing the truth out of fear of how they would react. That doesn’t mean that what happened to me was a “story”, I didn’t make it up. I clearly had said no, and I was so afraid, and the sex happened anyway.
My reaction with my friends was as you said, influenced by my guilt and shame. Spot on. But it was rape. It took me so many years to be able to say that out loud.
loading...
MJ, When someone tells their friends they enjoyed the sex then cries rape, it does not make sense that is all. That is why I am questioning her story.
loading...
I’ll think you find that rape does not make sense. Not the telling of it.
loading...
Just to clarify, I never “cried” rape. Till this day, I have only told my sister, the psychologist, and now Mamamia. I told this story to explain why someone, like the girl in the Matthew Johns’ case, might react in a way that “doesn’t make sense” after being raped. I can’t make sense of the way I reacted, I just know that I was trying to cope with the most horrifying thing that had ever happened to me. At that time, the humiliation of having my friends think I had sex when I was drunk, was better than the humiliation of telling them that I had been raped after putting myself in that situation. Thank you to everyone else who has commented. Honestly, I never expected to be having a cry because of something some anonymous person said behind their computer. How does Mia handle it all the time?
loading...
A girlfriend and I (13 at the time), had a major crush on a guy from my brother’s sporting team (17yo). We had an opportunity at a party to get down and flirty…having a great time.
He took me to a room upstairs (some first kisses, I thought) and elation soon turned to confusion…and fear.
I froze and didnt make a sound. Unable to articulate what I didn’t want. This kind of interaction was a mystery to me as I was still transitioning into a young woman. By contrast he was extremely confident.
The ramifications? I was physically ill for a while. If boys were to near me in the locker bay at school I would hold my breath, their ‘scent’ overwhelmed me. Even now in my late 20′s a harmless compliment from a man can turn my stomach into terrified knots. Getting dressed up to go out can make me very nervous. Irrational I know, but these are stress responses I cannot control.
I have not shared this experience. There are varied opinions about this sort of thing and if someone dear to me delved into the semantics of why I failed to express a lack of consent it would break my heart into a million pieces.
In summary I think there needs to be more support and less judgement. We need to create an atmosphere where people can speak openly and heal from these experiences. My heart goes out to the anonymous woman that posted her experience here, concealing the truth and carrying the guilt for such a time. That experience is not your fault. x
loading...
Almost the same thing happened to me too. I feel for you
loading...
Anon, I was assaulted by a guy on camp when I was younger. I was so shellshocked and ashame and embarrassed that I then hooked up with him a number more times (consensually) afterwards. I think it was partly to try to rewrite my role in the situation, to get back some control (eg we’re equal people in a relationship rather than him having chosen what was going to happen), and to try to rationalize what had happened (“he didn’t just assault me-he’s my friend and maybe he just misunderstood what I wanted”).
Is that completely crazy and irrational and atypical? Sure. But it’s a messed up, confusing, unusual response to a messed up, confusing, unusual situation. You do what you can. Don’t blame yourself for the rape, or for your response. Lots of love to you xxx
loading...
The young girl coming out and telling everyone she was raped by such a high profile person caused soo much backlash for her. Why would she risk that if it didn’t happen? What positive would she get out of exposing herself like that and being open to countless awful awful criticism and name calling? If she did brag to colleagues it may have been from shock. I know that when I was raped I told myself it was okay and it wasnt really rape because I couldn’t cope with the reality of it. Of course deep down I knew what it was but it took me some time to be able to admit it as it was too raw. I think you should be more angry at the many rapists who get away with what they do than at the extremely tiny minority of women who may lie about being assaulted.
loading...
What an effective ad. So confronting and depressing in the simplicity of the message. I wish it were shown in Australia as well as across the world.
loading...
There isn’t really much to debate… No means no. If it’s not consensual, it’s rape. I could go on and on.
What a fantastic (yet depressing) ad. I couldn’t agree with you more, Steph, that it should be shown worldwide…
loading...