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While Sydney witnessed the most flamboyant same sex parade of the year on Saturday night, I was stuck in a Queensland strip club with a rum and coke and a guilty conscience. My Saturday night couldn’t have been more outrageously upended had I been stuffed in an overhead locker and sent to Uganda.
I’d found myself in an argument with a topless barwoman who thought she deserved the $5 change from the twenty I’d slid across for my drinks. I hadn’t planned on a debate about the actual economic utility of tipping in an industry not at all geared for my benefit but sometimes these things crop up when they’re least expected.
I hate strip clubs. Partly because boobs to me serve the same erotic function as elbows do (and no, I don’t have a secret elbow fetish) but mostly because there’s something about the power imbalance of leering, animalistic men that makes me feel uncomfortable. Rightly or wrongly, the breakdown in previously civilised human beings at the sight of a pair of boobs disturbs me.
It just does.
But, to counter that, I’ve never suffered from the type of rescue complex that leads me to believe every woman who takes her clothes off for the entertainment of others needs to be saved.
My weekend started with a conversation. My friend had, like almost every other person on the planet, just finished reading How to be a Woman by Caitlin Moran. “It completely changed the way I think about strip clubs,” she told me. “The women in those clubs, the vast majority of them come from abusive backgrounds.”
Well didn’t I feel bad. I knew a trip was likely the very next night for the buck’s party I was attending. The next evening I ran into another friend at dinner, one of the most staunchly outspoken feminists I know, where she not only implored us to take our friend to a strip club but then gave recommendations as well, like a Lonely Planet guide for mammaries.
Confused? Yup. I’d have more luck assembling the pieces of an actual puzzle in a wind storm. For what it’s worth, here’s a summary of Caitlin’s view:
“Porn is fine, she likes porn – it’s the porn industry that’s the problem, being “offensive, sclerotic, depressing, emotionally bankrupt” and entirely geared to men. ‘Ban it? Feminism doesn’t need to start BANNING pornography. It needs to start MAKING it’. Lap-dancing is not fine, but pole-dancing and burlesque are.”
But what of the women who make it their choice, devoid of the ‘homogenous stripper tragedy‘ that many love to say has driven them there? This one question is what led me into a conversation with the female manager of the strip club about the politics of feminism in flesh industries on the night I should have been burrowing under a barrier fence to find Kylie Minogue at Mardi Gras. As you do.
So I asked her. Is every girl on a pole an oppressed husk of her former self, shedding items of clothing like she longs to shed her invariably horrible past? Lo and behold, some of them are. Some of them are not. Fancy that, it’s complicated!
“I used to dance,” she tells me. “My husband broke his back and our daughter was a new born and we really needed the money, so I danced and I hated every moment of it. But I’m thankful I could get the cash. As soon as he was OK, I stopped and now I manage the girls here and at two other places. Some of them genuinely love it. People always talk about power, but sometimes they have it. They love the sexual power of it. It’s their body and look at the reactions they get. Others hate it. They feel trapped. If you try and say there is just one type of girl, you’re kidding yourself.”
And then there are those who I assume have given it as much thought as strip club Joe with his tongue in his scotch: none. Another close friend is a topless waitress. I once asked her why she did it. She couldn’t believe more people didn’t. Her eyes narrowed to quizzical little holes. None of it made sense to her, you see, because asking whether the feminist in her had been extinguished by naked bar service was as ludicrous a proposition to her as asking whether a prior career in accounting had done the same.
Accounting, she reliably informed me, was worse.
So, help me out. Where do you stand on strip clubs and women in the sex industry? Feminist choice or oppressed fate?
Comments
147 Comments so far
I don’t mean to be rude, but are you actually straight? Because gender preference kind of weights a story like this and from your words and pics I get the feeling you are homosexual and yet its confusing because you are at strip clubs?!
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i respect a womans right to choose, if she is happy and safe doing it, why should i deny her the option to choose to do it? i am always a little torn with feminism, i believe in equality but then i see this side of feminism crop up, were women begin to demean and look down on one another in the name of feminism, it feels wrong
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Personally I don’t want strip clubs to be seen as the ‘normal’ fabric of the society in which I live in. No matter how much glitz, glamour or gloss you want to throw at this industry, at the end of the day is it nothing more than live pornography and a form of prostituion. How is it empowering for women to behave in ways that men have become to expect of them? How is it empowering for a woman to grovel to a man for his attention and cash. If stripping was such an empowering vocation, why do these clubs have such high security? How is it empowering to be masturbation fodder? Do men really expect their partners to be waiting faithfully for them at home while they engage in double standard mysoginistic behaviour? Why do women allow such dishonouring behaviour from their partners? Why does one’s willingness to be open minded always seem to come at the expense of a woman’s dignity. Nothing you say will ever convince me that strip clubs are an acceptable form of employment. Industries created by men for men through the explotiation of women. If this is the only way women can get ahead in life and support their families, what does this say about value society places on the role of women in our communities?
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“Why does one’s willingness to be open minded always seem to come at the expense of a woman’s dignity.”
Brilliant line, thanks!
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Well said!
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Eew can you please not call this page “strip club feminism”?? Stripping has nothing to do with feminism!! It’s a complete misuse of the word and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the concept of feminism.
I watch porn, I go to the strippers (very occasionally) and I’m a strong feminist. But I don’t try to fool myself that the sex industry and feminism are aligned!
If a person only eats meat if it’s died of natural causes (eg so they haven’t caused an animal to die) that doesn’t make them a vegetarian. Similarly, just because some women don’t feel degraded by stripping, it doesn’t make stripping a feminist act. It’s contributing to the sex industry, which is one of the key perpetuators of female inequality, objectification and degradation.
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I can see that a lot of women would strip to make amazing money, to get off on seeing men drool over their bodies and to show off their awesome dancing skills. To me, it would also be depressing and degrading to feel like men were looking at me like a piece of meat they could do anything to.
That aside, the thing that bothers me about strip clubs is the double standard in terms of what is “normal” for a man or a woman. Many men in relationships seem to think it’s totally normal and cool for them to go out and have a naked woman rub her naked breasts or vagina in their face, while they openly drool. Yet if their girlfriend went out, stripped off and rubbed her naked body all over another man, suddenly it’s unacceptable! They’re outraged and jealous!
Hey guys, maybe there’s a valid reason your partner feels uncomfortable with you going to the strippers!!
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My flatmate said to me a while ago “would you let your boyfriend get a happy ending?” My response was “umm – would he let a random guy finger me?”
I don’t understand why people think it’s suddenly acceptable to do something that would otherwise be cheating, just because they’re paying for it. That just makes it worse!!! You’re possibly degrading someone, and you’re spending your cash on another woman when you could be buying me flowers!!
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actually very few women these days object to their partners going out to strip clubs. they either go with them or they go and watch (and more) male strippers
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I don’t feel contempt towards women in the sex industry nor do I feel that they all need to be saved. Even if I was to suppose that they were all somehow “damaged”, everybody has their own damage in some capacity. Every time I’ve been to a strip club they seemed to me like teeming rooms of damaged people, male and female alike.
The whole thing just makes me sad I suppose. Even the question of a power struggle between the client and the worker boils down to an inability or refusal to see someone of the opposite sex as your equal.
What a shame.
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So I work as a stripper
I don’t take drugs, I don’t smoke, I look after my health and fitness, I’ve never been abused and I don’t consider myself lacking in options except that there’s a day nearing when I’ll have to stop.
What I love about the job is meeting new and interesting people a lot of the time (yes, there are the ones that arent so), of course the dancing aspect (Ive likened it to a workout), the podium workout- love it, and the freedom it allows me- can choose my own hours and where I want to work on a whim. Also, dare I say, the hustle. Its just fun. Maybe its tge rise in value of the commidity that is the buzz
I’ve been asked about the power thing and, to be honest, I don’t think about it! I just thought I had a good product- my breasts, and thought ‘why not’??!
When I see people eating crap food, smoking cigarettes, taking drugs, talking down on themselves, treating people like crap and being nasty, I think this is abuse!!! So I guess there’s a different perception of things!!
In any case, I don’t like having to defend myself over and over again so I don’t tell people which would be the only problem I have with the stripping industry- the critism, the judgement without knowing the character.
It has always seemed to me that the more healthy in mind and spirit a person is the less likely they have been to question my character on what I do for a living
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Ooo, I forgot to say the money
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It sounds as though you think of your work more from an athletic angle than a sexual one? That’s interesting! I went to a strip club last year and I couldn’t help being amazed at the athleticism of the dancers. One of them was doing one handed push ups and another was hanging upside down doing sit ups.
I am not pro strip clubs but I can definitely see where you’re coming from and how for you it’s framed differently!
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Yes,
and also from an angle where noone touches me so maybe you’re right.
Have also seen some amazing podium work, athletism and gymnastics.
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Not a fan of strip clubs. I think they encourage men to view women as mindless objects that exist only for their sexual/viewing pleasure and that is what I hate about them. I also really don’t get why guys go there. She is taking off her clothes because you paid her to do it. Not because she finds you in anyway attractive or wants you.
It’s funny to read this story. I was just on the Firmspy website where there is a big discussion going on about a 20 year old stripper who was dating a lawyer she met at her club for a year. She thought she was living with him, and gave up stripping to be a “trophy wife” to him. She also fell pregnant to him. She then found out that he was actually also living with, and got married to, his fiancee during the same period. I read the girl’s blog, and it was really, really sad. She was so naive and whilst she talked about loving stripping and feeling empowered by it, the undertone was clearly that she was desperate for some man to take care of her.
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I think most 20 year olds are naive! Sad, also that the guy was bastard enough to do that to the 20 year old and his fiancé??!!!!
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Re. the claim that stripping is “empowering”, I suppose the question I would ask myself is, “would I be proud to tell my 7 yo daughter what I do for a living?”
I am incredibly proud to work in the nonprofit sector, to be doing postgrad studies in philanthropy, to be a working mum, and to be a role model and an example my daughter can be proud of. I love the fact that I can talk to her about my work, and open her eyes to the fact that there are people who don’t have the great life she does, and that I can show her that an individual can make a real difference to the world.
I certainly couldn’t say that growing up and taking her clothes off for the sexual pleasure of men would be something I hope my child could aspire to.
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This is of course a lesser example, but when I was 19-20 and strapped for cash I did bikini waitressing.
“It’s like being at the beach,” I told myself. “Except without the sand and water.” For the record, that’s not at all what it was like. I certainly didn’t feel empowered.
The money was decent – most of my income was in tips. There were good and bad guys. I had a guy repeatedly trying to put money in my bikini top and bottom, despite my having politely rejected his advances – and, consequently, his generous tip. But then there were the good guys, too, who tell those sort of guys to back off and were also happy to have a chat.
It was awkward, though. The inevitable question is, “So what’s a girl like you doing in a place like this?”. I was honest, explaining that I was making ends meet while at uni. But those sorts of conversations made me feel so ashamed of myself. The guys I actually chatted with seemed to respect me, based on the fact that I was doing what I was doing out of desperation. I didn’t feel like I deserved that respect, though.** I ended up quitting shortly after starting, I just couldn’t deal with it.
** I’m not saying anyone who does this sort of thing, or more extreme jobs such as stripping or being a hooker, don’t deserve respect – I’m saying that I (subjectively) didn’t respect myself and so didn’t feel I deserved others’ respect.
I also want to add that I find it sad that many people are willing to respect those who do that sort of them provided they are desperate for cash or similar, but not willing to respect those who do it out of choice (i.e. enjoy it).
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Interesting. Very impressed that you put your face and name to this story, but I wouldn’t always recommend surrendering your anonymity on charged issues like this.
Let’s face it bikini waitressing is pretty mild and shouldn’t be judged, but you’ll still find people who will.
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That honestly doesn’t worry me – anyone who knows me personally (including my family) know that I did this, so I don’t have a whole lot to lose from putting my name and face to it! If a potential employer manages to find this post and link it to me, well, they’d be pretty lucky to find it. Had it been stripping or prostitution, I wouldn’t have been so keen to put my name and face to it because of the level of vitriol it incites.
I also hope that people can associate this post with my other regular posts and also use those other posts when framing their judgment of me. Those who don’t, well…if they want to judge, they’re more than welcome to.
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I did a story a few years ago on the lives of working girls, and spent a night at a “massage parlour” (no… not “working”) to try and get an insight into how a woman ends up in the sex industry.
Lo and behold…. these girls were all different. One of them was doing a masters degree and was “massaging” because the phenomenal money helped her save large chunks of cash, which funded her volunteer work in South East Asia. One was studying journalism, just like me…. all of the girls I interviewed were educated, healthy and drug free. (Their sexual health is probably better than most other women seeing as sex workers, in licensed premises, must get mandatory health checks monthly). They were all there by choice. (this was an upmarket licensed brothel – which is a very different experience to women who work the streets)
That said, none of them had wanted to do this when they were little girls, and they all hoped they wouldn’t be doing it for years to come…. but the overwhelming impression I got was how normal they all were. They would blend into your group of friends so easily.
Some of them enjoyed it (honestly), some pitied the men for the stupid amounts of money they were willing to pay, some resented the men. They were all able to detach themselves from the physical act so it wasn’t emotional for them – it was a physical service… like an actual massage therapist. They even have a union – called The Scarlet Alliance.
The main point is, no one knows why these women are in this line of work. You haven’t lived their lives – past or present. Some are oppressed, abused, damaged girls doing anything they can to get by. Some are empowered women who feel they are exploiting stupid men. Most sit somewhere in the middle…. and I guess true equality is being able to do whatever the hell you want, for whatever reason, and have no one judge you for it.
Either way, I don’t think they deserve the abuse….I mean, they wouldn’t be doing what they’re doing, if there were no clients……
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‘Some of them enjoyed it (honestly), some pitied the men for the stupid amounts of money they were willing to pay, some resented the men.’
I’ve always wondered how the punters are regarded by the strippers. I’ve always assumed that it was vague contempt at how malleable men are in front of a naked woman.
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I can imagine a lot of strippers would see it that way. It’s kind of pathetic for these blokes to sit there for hours on end staring and forking out cash just to look at you. Men can be such victims to their own obsession with naked women.
I think it would harder for a working girl to see it this way because the bloke actually gets what he wants at the end…. but some of them make a conscious choice to pity the men, because it helps them feel like they still have some power in the transaction.
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Wow, some of the posts below are really judgmental and nasty…
I have been to a strip club with my husband – my idea. It was ok…total respect for those girls, their bodies are so toned and fit and watching them I was thinking I wish I could do that up a pole! Some took everything off, some didn’t.
After a while though it got a bit monotonous…
We have only done it that once, we were in town, looking for something to do and I wanted to see what they were like. I was the only female there in the crowd though but my husband thought it was pretty cool that I suggested it.
Each to their own I say, it’s not a job for everyone but for those who can do it then why not.
My sister also does burlesque dancing where she ends up topless, she is a well educated mother who doesn’t need to earn extra money but does it because she loves it.
Don’t judge people…
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iAmandaroseI think it is the men who are taken advantage of- Women are taki g advantage of male horniness. hey know the site of boobs makes them part with cash.
and if they men are silly enough to pay up- why not take advantage of them?
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Agree – very little has been said about the men who frequent these clubs!!!
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Rick, if you truly hate strip clubs, and the ‘power imbalance of leering, animalistic men’, (and good call) then maybe you could refuse to go to them.
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Good question. As a journalist, I’m always doing things just for the sake of doing them … and asking questions about them. But I don’t hate them to the point of boycott, they just don’t appeal to me in that usual sense it might for a straight man
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Pardon my ignorance, but are there gay strip clubs? If so, have you attended and what is the general mindset of the men who “perform” at these venues (if you know that, that is)? Pardon my further ignorance, I know that there is Wild Boys Afloat and Manpower et al which are touring male strippers, but are there “fixed” male stripper venues, be it a full time strip club or a few nights a week at a pub, club or other?
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I think there is a significant percentage of women in the sex industry who feel they don’t have a lot of other options- women who are there because they need the money.
I also believe there are plenty of women who freely choose to strip.
Sex work like stripping and prostitution is often glamorized in movies and media. For the majority of sex workers, I don’t think this is a fair or accurate portrayal of their experiences.
The very idea of sex work- that women and women’s bodies can literally become commodities to be sold and purchased by men who are in a better economic position- is entirely based on gender inequality. I don’t see how it could be considered empowering to be reduced to wank material for men- just because one ‘chooses’ to be wank material.
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Fantastic reply Marie, exactly what I was thinking. No matter what reason/s lead to a woman entering stripping or sex work, the entire concept is based on a woman’s body being a commodity for male pleasure. And THAT is what makes me sick.
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There are 2 types of power at play. Financial and sexual. Some, not all, of the men are seeking are seeking intimacy because they are lonely and dysfunctional where relationships with women are concerned.
Of course, some men just want to look at nekkid women.
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OH MY GOD!!!!!!!! I can feel the scratches.
This is why i hate girls.
oh and i know a girl who is a stripper by night and works in occupational therapy by day.
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So many people know strippers and don’t even realize. That’s why it’s so funny when the insults come out. They would be so surprised by which otherwise wonderful people in their own lives they just inadvertently called brainless or slutty..
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I worked with a stripper who moonlighted as a Christmas elf at Harrods.
Her night job paid a whole lot better.
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One of the women I met on Saturday night was a speech therapist in training
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I find it so hilarious to read the nasty comments below… “why don’t you think of the wives and children?” are you kidding! they are strippers inside a club, they aren’t going out and hand picking your husband… he is choosing to go inside..
It’s interesting to see how most people on this blog are usually so open minded yet when it comes to this.. its like nasty pack of school girls calling other girls sluts… get over yourselves, people make money in different ways and for different reasons and I cant think of a single career that has only ONE type of person doing this career with ONE type of personality.. what makes these people think all strippers have low self esteem and out to ruin other womens lives?
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My brother is a male stripper and he had major issues, that being he is bipolar and with tendancies to be extremely violent. From what I understand its a hard industry to be in if your not completely sure of yourself.
That being said when I was extremely broke at uni, I considered it, but glad I never went through with it, thats what Centrelink is for!! Happy that my naked body only gets seen my my boyfriend
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I work in a busy shopping centre serving people all day and had a disscussion with work collegues about what it would be like if you had to srtrip or have sex with the men that come in like sex workers/strippers would and the thought just makes my skin crawl. Yuk!
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Ahhh but you don’t ‘have’ to have sex with whoever comes in you choose who your clients are and can decline whomever you choose to.
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I couldn’t do it, but I have no problem with people who do. There is a lot of generalisation happening. The way I see it – my body is just that, a body. It’s not who I am, who I am is who I decide to be. And if I decide to take my clothes off for money, I’d do it to get ahead, taking advantage in a societal system that doesn’t allow me to do that easily. You don’t lose dignity by taking your clothes off, you lose dignity by giving it up. It’s no ones choice but your own. People can look down on you all they want, it’s only when you accept their opinions and not your own that you really lose.
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I would never strip or sell my body for a living,it’s just not my thing. I wouldn’t stay with a man who thought it was ok to frequent strip clubs ( and I don’t agree that all men do). but I don’t dislike women who choose to do this for a living, I just wish they wouldn’t.
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How sad when a stripper like below has to justify her pay rate, call other women bitches, attack married women and glorify her $300 pay rate. Seriously who would want to flaunt her vagina in front of old dirty men. Luvy, no one is envious of your lifestyle, no bloke wants you long term, how sad you have to get naked to get noticed. How lonely is your lonely brain cell?
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How sad when other women are so insecure that they have to slam other women’s jobs?
You comment makes me laugh so much, because all it does is illustrate YOUR deficiencies. I don’t have a brain cell, yet I have a tertiary education. I can’t get a man long term, yet I’m engaged. You don’t even know me and I’m so glad I don’t yet you know you. You make all these crazy assumptions about me, to transform me into this alien ‘other’ so you can act like there is such a big divide between us. There’s not. I could be your next door neighbour. I could be your sister. I could be your daughter. Considering that the only person who knows what I do is my partner, you wouldn’t even know. Are these people dumb sluts? No. And if you found out they were strippers, they would be?
That is pathetic.
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Not insecure. Guess what? I am fully clothed at work, use my brain & earn the same figures as you. No one has to see me naked & best of all I get total respect from all my collegues.
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I’m not a stripper but even I’m going to jump in and say that it is wrong to say that strippers don’t use their brains in their work.
Stripping is like any job in the customer service industry – it requires strong communicative skills because a big part of working in these clubs is INTERACTING with clientele, people management, Ensuring their party is enjoying themselves, alerting security staff to those who are causing inconvenience, strong selling skills because I don’t doubt there would be competition amongst girls. Plus the physical demands – many are dancing or trained dancers, walking in heels for 6-12 hours at a time (and we all know how painful that is!!!)
These skills are utilized in hoards of jobs which you wouldn’t
Dare call brainless – retail and sales, hospitality, even event management, and public relations require these skills.
I think it is unnecessarily demeaning to assume that just because one is topless at the time means that there is no brain work required for their work. And it might also explain why a lot of strippers who are commenting on these posts are tertiary educated and lead successful lives outside of stripping. They probably find they reason they are also successful and extremely profitable as strippers is BECAUSE of these skills!
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Thankyou!!!!!
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I’m not slamming people’s jobs, I just don’t want to see any man/woman or child expolited or treated poorly in anyway. Why is that such a bad thing?
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I can understand that. In that case, it would be worth turning your attention away from telling strippers how wrong they are, and towards reasons why people might become strippers as opposed to other jobs. Campaign for better rules regarding welfare arrangements that have less people falling through the gaps, ask governments to overhaul health care and PBS systems so that people can actually afford to have their problems treated, put pressure on policy makers to create better safeguards in the foster care system to stop children becoming abuse statistics. I could go on forever.
But there is no point in people hurling insults at strippers, especially if some of them may be damaged or potentially exploited.
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Whoa. Author of this comment, you are getting way too personal.
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Anonymous, there is a way to state your opinion while remaining respectful of others and their own choices and opinions. Please remember this.
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Please keep the conversation civil. Disagree if you like, but reducing your argument to insults doesn’t make it any more persuasive. I’ve asked the same of others in return.
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“So, help me out. Where do you stand on strip clubs and women in the sex industry? Feminist choice or oppressed fate?”
The simple answer is: Everyone’s circumstances are different. And if we don’t know the circumstances, then we have no right to judge.
BUT, we should do everything we can to *prevent* anyone falling into an oppressed position.
Unfortunately, we still live in a misogynist society. I think it’s OK to trade anything, including sexuality – as long as it’s a fair deal for both parties. Misogyny (from both men AND women) is the unique factor surrounding public opinion of sex work. Female sex work, that is.
Let’s face it, there isn’t much public discussion surrounding “oppression of male sex-workers” is there? And some of those male sex-workers ARE oppressed. And * that* issue illustrates our societie’s sexism, at it’s most fundamental core.
Rick, surely you have an opinion on male sex workers? I’d love to hear it!
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Strangely, I’ve never seen a male stripper! And my thoughts would be much the same, I reckon. Some will do it because they can and want to, others as a result of the circumstances in their life that may have left them with few other options.
But I don’t judge the people who do it. Never have, still don’t. Some ‘audience’ members, on the other hand…
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Gosh there are a lot of bitches around! Funny thing is that most of you probably know someone who is or has been a stripper, and unless you have a GPS tracker on your husband, he’s probably one of the people paying to spend time with us and you’d never even know about it.
I mean, we could turn it around and throw all the other cliches, like.. if you weren’t so disappointing, your man wouldn’t need to go to strip clubs.. or as soon as you marry someone, they become boring.. or all frumpy housewives have a personal vendetta against anyone who is young or pretty.. whatever. But I guess I am smart enough to know that there is enough complexity within people to know that those lines are just that – cliches, generalizations, and not helpful at all.
Bitches will be bitches, but while you’re all working yourself into a tizzy over how awful strippers are, I’m being clever and making lots of money.
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and you’re proud of that. You do realise that just about any naked woman can get the attention of a drunken man. True beauty is when a fully clothed woman can get the attention of a sober man.
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It’s pretty sad if you are basing your entire self esteem on whether men, drunk or sober, think you are beautiful.
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it’s even sadder if you get satisfaction from drunken men who clearly don’t respect you on any level.
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Can we all please remember to keep the debate, and any comments, respectful. There is a way to disagree without being rude. Thanks everyone!
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True beauty is when, after the sex has gone down, her personality encourages him to stick around and start a relationship.
I haven’t read all the comments yet, but I’m yet to hear a stripper say that she picked her boyfriend up in a strip joint.
For accuracy’s sake; I think that it needs to be said that few men would be comfortable to find out that their girlfriend was stripping, but obviously such men are obviously out there. You talk to some of these women and a lot of them have boyfriends and husbands.
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None of my friends would sell themselves short. Sorry …
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Nice to hear
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Actually, I’m not selling myself short. My time is worth $300 an hour at my club, whether I take my clothes off or not. How much do you make at your job?
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My husband & I have our own business and $300 a day is pittance. Guess what, I dont have to show my vagina to anyone.
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Sorry, you misread – $300 an hour.
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What price do you put on your self respect and dignity. It’s only money,bit deal! what does that mean exactly? That you can buy stuff. Stuff that really has no true meaning..False nails, brazil waxes,nice car, fancy clothes, shoes. Does it buy you true love? Does it buy you self respect? Does it buy you dignity? Does it buy you loyalty? Does it buy you friendship? So what does it mean exactly that you earn $300 hour? Should I be in awe of you? Should I be impressed by what you earn? Seriously?
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If your senses of self respect and dignity revolve around your job then you are the one with the issue. It is just that – a job, and if you’re smart a very well paid one. Not all strip clubs are seedy dingy places, and wouldn’t you prefer men their desires somewhere there are rules, rather than out chatting up or possibly sleeping with girls they’ve met at nightclubs? One of my closest friends paid for her car, degree and house deposit with less than 18 months stripping on weekend nights. Small minded people who make sweeping generalizations about things they know nothing about will keep us in the dark ages, and your post is a fine example. Perhaps look at the whole picture before you condemn someone for doing something that you dont agree with.
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I make more than that an hour and I get to keep my clothes on
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Good for you! Are you going to fill my prescriptions for me?
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Are you the Prime Minister?
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That’s funny:)
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Read my post further down. This is something I do once or twice a fortnight to pay my medical bills while I work on my real career. It’s pretty sad that you still think all strippers are dumb – should I say that all stay at home mums are lazy? All accountants have no personality?
I am proud of myself for taking charge of my situation and not allowing myself to be a victim, for taking advantage of a demand, for prioritizing my education and health over doing some other demeaning job that society has less of a problem with. I was treated appallingly as a retail worker and made a pittance. To me, working as a stripper and being financially secure, able to advance my education and receive the health care I need to stay alive is HUGELY preferrable to the alternative, no matter how much more palatable it is to you.
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While an American study,this might be useful to those who think strip clubs are harmelss fun: A women’s crisis center serving Wahperton, ND reported a 96% increase in domestic violence and sexual assault referrals after a second strip club opened in that town. (Sherry Lee Short in Not For Sale)
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So is that the fault of the strippers?
Is it the same as “a woman shouldn’t dress provocatively because that’s what causes men to rape them”.
I’m not sure of the answer – I’m just being devil’s advocate.
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No just saying they are not harmless fun
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I agree I don’t think they are harmless, but I do think there are dangers in a lot of jobs!
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I think the point is more that when there is an establishment whereby women turn their bodies into commodities for the sexual pleasure of men, then the attitude of the punters carries over into their life *outside* the club. (That was my take on it anyway)
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And that’s what I meant.
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Agree, not just harmless fun. Studies have shown that prostitutes suffer rates of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder equal to that of veterans. Prostitutes, not strippers, but sex workers. Something to think about.
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If women do this to ‘get through Uni” then how do blokes get through Uni? Get a real job with dignity and respect?
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Don’t blokes already get on average higher pays than women?
Does this mean that on average blokes work jobs with greater dignity and respect than women do in general?
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What does it say about the value our society places on women if the only way they can make more money than men is through selling their bodies?
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At uni, most of the jobs being worked are entry level and the rates of pay are the same.
I think that you have to have a pretty tight rig to be a male stripper and that women would only be prepared to part with their money for a way above average physique.
I had one straight male mate at uni who worked at a gay rub and tug joint. He confessed when we were drunk one night. It freaked me out for 10 mins then I got over it.
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To all the guys out there. Its simple…if you don’t want your wife, girlfriend, daughter doing it, then you shouldn’t be supporting it.
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This is an interesting topic.
I’m posting as anon today. I used to be of the belief “strippers are lost, abused, damaged” etc.
But last year I started working as a model both photographic and life model. I pick the kind of art I choose to pose for – mostly clothed but occasionally nude and I favour the artistic, tastefully done styles.
As a result, I started meeting a lot of other models, a lot of whom do topless waitressing or stripping. Occasionally the odd offer of topless waitressing would come my way.
And it’s changed my opinion – to the point part of me can’t help but think “Maybe I should….”. When I found out how much I could earn in one night – to me it’s not about making men drool or being subservient to them. It’s….well opportunism I guess.
An analogy.
I’m good at mathematics – so I tutor primary school kids how to do math. That was opportunistic for me….it made sense because it’s a skill I’m good at so why not make money from it…the job fits my lifestyle and the money goes towards my bills.
The odd shift topless waitressing…it doesn’t fuss me being exposed. Why not get paid for it? THere are no touching clauses or else “handsy” men get kicked out. I’m safe. Once again, the job fits my lifestyle and the money goes towards my bills.
Yes, I have met some “damaged” souls and it does sadden me. Stripping does have the potential to bring danger to those who I suppose aren’t sensible enough to be safe. But I’ve also met “damaged” souls working in many places.
So yes – at the end of the day open mindedness, a variety of females work these kind of clubs.
This is my view on the Sydney scene anyway. Yes once you go to Thailand or elsewhere where the opportunities for education for women, financial stability etc are different it is a whole different kettle of fish.
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A cheap and nasty way to earn a living.
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A cheap and nasty anonymous comment
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There are more honorable ways to earn a living instead of being an object that gets men hard. Please….
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Yes I could be a lawyer.
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Or a politician
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At least these professions above are using a gift, their brain. The other is stripping and using their body. Big difference. Intelligence v’s Cheap & Nasty. I know what most would aspire too.
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Hi, I’m a lawyer. Glad you could take time out from the topic at hand to make an unnecessary criticism of my profession. I feel a lot like the stripper above who felt the need to justify her choices based on wages, but I will simply say that I do what I love, if I wanted to be well paid, I would have studied engineering.
My comment ON THE TOPIC (hint?) is that I don’t have an issue with the girls that do it or the guys that go for a bucks night… Guys who go regularly, that isn’t ok with me, I wouldn’t want to date a guy like that and I wouldn’t want to hang out with them
Also, I don’t like the inference that these girls are sluts, it’s like calling someone a slut for wearing a miniskirt. We shouldn’t call each other sluts ladies.
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My thoughts are that if it was a daughter of mine that wanted to strip, I’d be disappointed. It just goes against the grain for me.
I had a friend too that took it up, to save up for a sports car. Last I saw her, she was out on bail and staring down the barrel of an extended stay in jail. She had developed a nasty drug habit during her stripping “career”. That has probably helped influence my ideas. Not everyone ends up like that, but remember, most places are not high end…
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How sad. Why cant women have a little more pride and remove themselves from a so called career that give them quick easy cash. Seedy men paying good bucks to see you strip, selling your soul, drug exposure… very sad indeed.
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I’m a stripper and this type of analysis and stereotyping by people who have never worked in the industry drives me crazy!
Personally, I have two university degrees and work 9-5 in a well-paying job, using the degrees in which I studied for. I have never been abused, don’t have a substance abuse problem, and have supportive friends and family.
So why do I work as a stripper every weekend? Many reasons. I’m comfortable with who I am and don’t care about judgements from others; I work hard (healthy diet and exercise) to keep a good body that I’m proud of; and although I don’t need the money, I can make over double the average weekly salary in one weekend, allowing me to put myself financially ahead of most others my age.
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Seriously?? If you are not going to uphold the values of womanhood please don’t expect the rights we fight so hard for. It’s a bit like not choosing to be in a union but taking the pay rises and better work conditions that your workmates fight for.
Oh and one more thing, You might make money, but what price do you put on your own dignity and respect? do you ever think of wives and girlfriends. Get real.. Stripping ls prostitution.
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Aren’t women’s rights about choice??
Women have also fought for careers and the right to work – does this mean that stay at home mum’s are turning their back on those rights too?
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That makes no sense. Please tell me what is so empowering about women parking in an industry that objecifies them for male sexual gratification only? I’m so over this concept of choice. Not all, but many women who choose this kind of job did not have the same ‘choices’ in life that i did. ‘Choices’ very contextual.
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mean par-taking
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“uphold the values of womanhood”
I didn’t know all of womankind got together and drew up a set of values and agreed on them. I must have missed the meeting.
Values are subjective, you don’t get to define what this women’s value of womanhood is.
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Alex, women who are truly secure and comfortable in themselves don’t feel the need to get their gear off for the affirmation of men. A secure woman knows she lives in a society where she is free to do this, but chooses not to.
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I don’t agree with that – isn’t the purpose of the article saying that not all women who choose to become strippers are doing it for the affirmation.
That’s like saying all women who wear make up or wear bras are doing it for the affirmation of men – so a TRULY secure woman would not do such things.
Strippers strip for different reason – yes some for affirmation, some for the money, some because it gives them a feeling of fame, some because they just enjoy it.
And I reckon you can pick ANY job and people will probably do it for the same reasons listed above.
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I don’t dislike women who choose to strip for a living. I dislike the men who exploit them
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Women’s rights and exploitation? I’m so happy that I live in a country that gives me the freedom to make the decision to strip. Everybody is talking about female strippers, but surely to uphold gender equality, male strippers should be treated in the same manner…
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I love this article. I’m kind if fascinated by strippers! Has anyone else read diablo cody’s book Candy Girl? Sometimes I wonder what it would be like but I don’t think I have the balls to ever ever ever go through with trying it out.
Kind of reminds me on an interesting story I read in a regional newspaper magazine about 3 women who were part time strippers but also had other jobs – one was an intensive care nurse, one worked in PR and I can remember the third. But it defiantly changed my perspective – one was doing because she had masses of debt, but two if the 3 had uni degrees and were doing it either because they enjoyed it or just enjoyed having the extra cash. Not the ‘little girl lost’ stereotype at all, although as has been mentioned I’m sure there are a lot of strippers with complex back stories.
OFF TOPIC: I find it an interesting side note that two of the commenters here who are strippers became so because getting help from centre link when they had mental illness was too difficult or insufficient. Is this ok? Good of the women for being able to help themselves but this doesn’t sit well with me….
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I’m the anonymous below, and definitely agree that there should be more support for all the people who fall through bureaucratic gaps, especially in regards to mental illness. The current healthcare system seems to think that everybody can be cured in a few free sessions, and that anybody with more complex or long term issues can magically pay for them – totally forgetting that the people with the more severe issues are the ones least able to afford treatment. It’s utterly ridiculous. You would think that someone in government would realize that more money pumped into psychiatric care would equal less strain on emergency rooms, crisis housing, not to mention families, etc..
But I’m ranting. No, for me, my partner is happy to pay for my medical expenses and cover the both of us while I’m at uni. But it is a big expense, and it doesn’t sit well with me. Throughout uni so far, I struggled in low paying retail/hospitality jobs, where I would be treated like rubbish by customers and staff, and have to work so many hours just to get by that I was threatening my academic progress. For me, stripping works well – I work so many less hours, make so much more money, spend so much less time freaking out about finances or not having enough time for school, and it’s entirely flexible – I choose which days I want to work.
Being a ‘baby stripper’ (as well call newbies!) was hard, but a few months in it sort of clicked that this worked so much better for me. So I agree that it’s a really sad, bad thing that there is such a lack of support for the people who are in these sorts of situations… but in my situation, I still had choices. It forced me into other jobs before I chose stripping – it wasn’t my only option, but for me, it turned out to be the best one.
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‘Sometimes I wonder what it would be like but I don’t think I have the balls to ever ever ever go through with trying it out.’
I think that if you had the balls, it would be a bit of a career obstruction as a stripper, although I’m sure that there are some establishments that cater to that market.
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I wish other people (mainly the commenters below) would stop telling me how I’m meant to feel about being a stripper. It’s ridiculous.
It’s my job, it’s not exactly a lifestyle choice. I take off the heels and makeup, and you wouldn’t even know. I’m a student in a monogamous long term relationship. I babysit my nieces, I walk my dogs. I have never done drugs, not even smoked, and I feel lucky every day that I have such wonderful parents and such a privileged childhood.
However, I have crippling depression and severe anxiety (NOT caused by my job, thank you). The government and health services aren’t exactly equipped to deal with cases like me, who will need therapy and medication for the rest of my life. My partner earns too much for me to receive anything at all from centrelink, even a health care card to help with all my prescriptions. The combined total of my medical expenses averages over $300 a month.. which is a lot. It’s also a sort of catch 22 – need the treatment to be able to work, need to work to afford the treatment!
So, I work as a stripper. As I’m anon today, I’ll disclose that I sometimes I’m taking home over $1000 in cash (yes, I pay taxes..). Sometimes I’m lucky if I break even. But it still averages better than working at McDonalds, and frankly, getting bullied by managers and copping abuse from customers in retail was a hundred times worse than twirling around a pole in a club that’s so dark people can’t see me anyway. I once worked with a girl who had somehow scratched her breast, so she put a tiny bandaid on it and covered it with makeup – nobody noticed. That’s how dark the clubs are.
Apart from club rules, I still have personal rules. Nobody touches me, ever. Nobody sees me outside the club. Nobody gets my number. But I make money, I can pay for my medication, not feel totally reliant on my partner and I will have a sizeable savings account when I plan to hang up my heels in about three years. And I have to admit there is a certain delicious irony about being considered so desirable that I can charge poor saps $50 just for ten minutes, yet I’m such a nerd in real life. I work at a relatively upmarket club though, and I know things can be different in other places – I’m not particularly comfortable with touching or actual sex acts, so I don’t work in those places. I often make the most money by simply providing conversation. Because strip clubs are open so late, they often seem to be a magnet for jetlagged businessmen. Many of them are married and miss their kids and wives so much, and really, all they want to do is pay for an hour of your time so they can pour their sorrows out to a sympathetic listener.
Nobody needs to feel bad for me, and it’s downright offensive to throw an entire occupation in one group and say that we are being taken advantage of. I’m the one who is taking this situation and making it advantageous for myself – I’m taking advantage of the fact that there is demand for what I can provide (youth, beauty, conversation and the ability to walk in 8 inch heels for 12 hours), and that I can turn that demand into financial security.My partner is completely supportive and proud that I would do this, that I’m 25 and already have such clear priorities about my education not coming second to a low paying job.
And the most interesting thing I’ve found is that the women who work in the clubs are far from the stereotypes. I work with primary school teachers, accountants, doctors, students, audiologists, social workers and stay at home mothers. They range from 18 (who don’t tend to last very long) into their 40s, and there is far more diversity of body shapes than you tend to see in magazines. Almost all of us have cellulite, some have fake boobs, some don’t. Some have incredible stretch marks and even c-section scars, some don’t. But the girls who are all drama-drama tend to work for five minutes and either leave or get fired. Nobody wants to work with other dancers who are on drugs, or trying to do ‘extras’, or trying to turn the entire dressing room into a bitch fight every night. Dancers are pretty quick to tell management if there is someone who is breaking the rules. The job is hard work – you need to have supreme sale skills, a very thick skin, a lot of stamina and the ability to stay focused on whatever your target is, through a very long shift. Girls that treat it like a night out and get drunk or try to hook up with customers just get fired.
If Mamamia are interested, I would be happy to write something to provide a first person perspective..
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Nice insight.
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Love this comment. And yes, we love getting submissions too, particularly with interesting stories like this one. Happy to discuss further rick@mamamia.com.au
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Actually, given the pack-of-bitches mentality that’s going down here, not sure I will. I mean.. I strip to afford the treatment to make me not depressed, so it seems a bit counter-intuitive to share this with an audience that seem to be intent on making me hate myself as much as possible. Sorry.
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That’s fine, your choice of course. Apologies for some who couldn’t voice their opinions with a little more tact. Although I’d ask the same in return for our dinner party rules that you not blanket label our commenters bitches. They’re not
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I’m sorry, I really don’t think there is any other way to describe what is happening. above.
There are individual, constructive, thoughtful, diplomatic comments, yes.
But the ones where everybody piles on to sling insults and make snarky generalizations… yes, they are behaving like a pack of bitches, unless they want to prove otherwise..
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Hi anonymous
Just for the record, if you were to submit a post for MM I would be really interested in reading it. I have never been in the industry, never had any desire to be and never will be, but always interested to read about other people’s experiences (without judgement). As Trog said – your comment gave a nice insight from one person’s experience.
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I agree – I’d be interested as well and think you’re brave for telling us what you have ! I’m sorry if you’ve been feeling unwelcome.
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I think that many wives and long-term girlfriends have a lot invested in their relationships.
They see strippers and sex workers as a threat to the sacrifices that they’ve made to hold on to that relationship.
They think that stripping is a massive shortcut to big pay and resent the fact that they’ve not chosen that route to earn their money.
They hate the concept of what you are and hopefully, not the person that you are.
Probably understandable from their perspective.
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‘They think that stripping is a massive shortcut to big pay and resent the fact that they’ve not chosen that route to earn their money.’
An edit to the above, I’d have prefered this to have read:
‘They think that stripping is a massive shortcut to big pay and regard it as the lazy way. They’ve not chosen that route to earn their money and on some level, resent the fact that it is an option for other women.
Not a well-rounded viewpoint if your illnesses prevent you from working a 9-5er.
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8 inch heels for 12 hours…shudder.
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I’m a 20 something straight woman and I love going to strip clubs. I probably go a couple of times a year with friends. There is something intoxicating about it and I really enjoy it. I’m a feminist and in theory I am opposed to sex work. People are complicated right?
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I’m a bi-girl and used to go to strip clubs quite often with my male friends. (As an aside, I had 2 friends who worked in the industry – both of them lesbians in monogamous relationships and said the punters would be surprised if they knew how many of the dancers had no interest in men whatsoever. One them saved up lots of money and set herself up for her post-stripping career. Neither of them ever touched drugs.)
Anyhow, after a night at a strip club, my long term male friend (who usually crashed on my sofa) was so worked up that he crept into my bed and tried to have sex with me repeatedly. When I finally managed to make him stop, he jerked off against my leg like a dog. We never spoke again and I know this is just one guy, but it really put me off going back…
I don’t judge the women who choose to strip.
I do wish there wasn’t a demand for it, though – because I feel that the entire sex industry distorts men’s perceptions of women.
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I think from a feminism point of view, the focus should be less on the WOMEN involved in the flesh peddling industry that the MEN.
The punters, clients etc, whatever you want to call them.
So, some of the women may be there out of desperation. Some may be there out of a love of the job. But do the men really care about the motivations, or do they just drool “BOOOBIES”… They don’t care if the lady on stage is someone’s mum. She’s an object.
And if men are so used to seeing scantily clad women on stage shaking it for their enjoyment, it’s no wonder they expect women OUTSIDE the club who mayb be showing a bit of skin to respond to their lewdness in a positive fashion.
I’m not saying all men are like that. There are men who don’t go to strip clubs. There are men who only go for things like bachelore parties. There might even be men who do go to watch a stripper who do wonder about her life and her motivations. But there are a lot of men who don’t.
Can they separate the objectification of a woman who is letting herself be objectified for money with the objectification of a random woman in their life?
It would be interesting to do a survey of strip club and brothel punters to see what their views on feminism and objectification of women are.
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That’s a REALLY interesting comment. That’s always been the part that concerned me most about going to these places. Watching the very base reactions from *some of the men.
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I’ve been to strip clubs on all the traditional occasions. Buck’s nights and in one bizarre instance, the headwetting of a baby girl. The irony of that was not lost on me.
The strip clubs in Australia have seemed pretty benign. The women don’t seem to be unhappy.
I went to a strip club in Thailand with my then girlfriend, now wife. That was a totally different story – the women looked depressed or drugged. Even the bloke who starred in the live sex show looked like he was not very pleased with his world. The whole thing was utterly mechanical. We both left that place quite depressed about the state of the world.
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I think the sex industry (or strip club industry) over in Thailand is a whole other (ugly) beast, that is far more reliant on sex trafficking and drugging the workers to keep them compliant.
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Fascinating comment Renae – in fact you might have given me an idea for a qualitative research assignment…
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I am a fence sitter on this one, but interesting to see that Iceland has banned strip clubs (http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-6329859.html)
because the government “does not accept that access to a woman’s body is sold”.
Interesting move. Could also be, of course, that at those temperatures a stray boob could have somebody’s eye out.
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Its sad when they’re doing it to support a drug habit. But if its a real choice and they’re not being exploited and they enjoy themselves, why not? I do think you’d be surprised about the people who do it. My friend who lives in a nice suburban area had a very attractive neighbour who was a single mum, who she assumed had a very generous ex husband because she had a very good lifestyle. But was always intrigued why she went out late at night and was very tired the next morning. After getting to know her better she found out she was a stripper and it allowed her to be around for her child during the day and financially she was comfortable. She was a fitness fanatic, obviously, and helped my friend lose weight by being her training buddy. Dont judge a book by its cover
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There is nothing empowering about a woman groveling to a man for his attention and cash. it’s a bit like a seal doing tricks for his bucket of fish. Much current research shows that strip clubs are not harmless fun. If my partner went to a strip club for whatever reason, he wouldn’t find me waiting for him at home like a faithful Martha Stewart. He would find me with the hunky half his age pool boy. Strip clubs illustrate such conservative views on female sexuality. If I could be a little crude, there is nothing empowering about being masturbation fodder.
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My husband told me once that the average woman has no idea how often she is masturbation fodder anyway.
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Hahaha! Gross.
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Ok, this is sad – but at University my friends and I went to strip clubs (Porky’s at King’s Cross) almost every weekend… I always wished they would do some imaginative choreography, you know?
I asked one of the dancers about their shifts and basically most work at every place in the strip, she just goes from one to another. I’m sure it sucks.
I wonder if there is a strip club that features normal women in tasteful stuff, not just the lucite heels and vibrator shows – that would be a hell of a lot sexier – but are men really not that fussy?
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There’s one that I really like (I’ve been on 2 different occasions) in surfers paradise… huge variety of girls and everything from traditional stripping through to burlesque to a more acrobatic style. Felt way less sleazy than others I’ve been to (particularly in the cross) and the girls seemed to be genuinely enjoying themselves, alert and not drugged up and the crowd seemed to genuinely appreciate their skill and athleticism.
I’m a straight, 20-something female for the record.
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would this be hollywood’s?? Loved going to that place all the time when I lived there! Girls get in for free too.
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Context matters. It’s a very different situation here in Australia where welfare is available, as opposed to the US (where poverty is far more prevalent) or worse still, Thailand.
I think at the very least you would have to narrow the field down to begin tackling this one.
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Are those the only two options?
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Nope! Even I’m somewhere in between, it’s just a guide to the debate…
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Yeah, I kind of thought you might be. It’s just that I’ve seen a lot of debates about this kind of thing on the intertubes, & some of them seem to go into a weird place. “OMG, you raised doubts about sex work as a career choice? BIATCH!! You’re supposed to support every choice I make otherwise you’re antifeminist!”
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And I’ve equally been torn apart for defending the women I’ve spoken to against accusations they’re all oppressed. I find it difficult to rationalise what I know to be true in some cases vs what I have heard directly from people who work in the industry (friends and interview subjects alike)!
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I worked as a stripper last year.
Desperation drove me to it. I suffer from Major Depression and constantly dealing with Centrelink drained me. I found Centrelink to be very difficult, even though I was on medical exemption for my illness, they were so stressful. I was doing all I could to get well.
I got tired of it all. I couldn’t keep borrowing from my family and I knew I couldn’t deal with a “normal job”. I was still severely depressed.
So, I started working in a club as a dancer.
I never wanted to be a stripper, but working there helped me to become more understanding. For some women, this is how they survive. They aren’t fortunate enough to have friends and family to help.. So rather than live off the government, they do what they have to do to survive. Isn’t that true feminism?
Sometimes you cannot afford to stand on a high moral ground, especially if you have kids to feed or an education to pay for.
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Anon, when I made those comments it wasn’t from a ‘higher moral ground’ standpoint – I know that women sometimes do stripping / sex work out of necessity. It’s just that I’ve seen (on the internet) people argue that *no* woman ever does because she is addicted or abused, that it is somehow *more* feminist to do that kind of work than something else, etc etc.
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i’m not against strip clubs, female porn stars, prostitution etc. I think people should be free to earn money any way they can as long as it’s legal (obviously prostitution is a tricky one but I’m going to pretend it’s all legal).
What I am against is that there are women who fall into these industries because they feel there is no other help or support out there for them to pursue.
A woman making an educated choice to enter any profession is fine to me, as long as it is her choice.
xxxmissvxxx.wordpress.com
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I think you’ve hit the nail on the head (as usual)…There’s no “one story fits all” in this space…some women, sadly, enter these vocations through desperation…others through liberation…
Victim and victor…both stories are equally valid and true…
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Hey, Rick, stop it! Everything you write makes me feel like crap because your way with words is so much better than mine.
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Oh, stop it, I just fell on some words and posted this
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Well written! Generalisations are always dangerous. Sure, some strippers are messed-up people with warped perceptions of men, sex and power.
So are some personal trainers, teachers, cleaners, journalists, nurses, pilots etc etc etc.
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Bingo!
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And Bingo callers (sorry, I had to). I do have more to add on this but my 5 minute afternoon tea break was taken up reading everyone’s opinion before I post my own.
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