by HELEN RAZER
Look. Look right into my sad, fraudulent eyes. There’s something you need to know.
Oh, goodness.
This is especially difficult as we’ve been getting along so well since we met and first shared our secrets. But, there’s a truth that needs disclosing before our friendship can deepen; before you can learn to love, trust and LOL in the comments again.
Here goes. Ever since I was a little girl, I have found myself deeply attracted to starting arguments. Oh, I’ve also been in a relationship with a gal for the last fourteen years. But, I can’t imagine you find that fact particularly scandalous.
What some friends do find shocking, though, is my willingness to start an argument on the topic of marriage. If you’re in a same-sex relationship, it seems, declaring your support for same-sex marriage is as obligatory as enjoying the music of P!nk.
While I don’t love P!nk, I believe she certainly has her place as the soundtrack to Body Pump class. I am less patient with the idea of reviving marriage, a dying institution, for use by same-sex couples. Frankly, I find the whole thing a bit silly, expensive and well past its Best Before date.
Marriage puts you nowhere but in spectacular debt and at greater risk of uttering the phrase “my hubby”. No-one outside the cast of Geordie Shore should utter the phrase “my hubby”. Really. It makes your domestic partner sound like a nasty rash. “I must get something for my hubby”. “My hubby has been playing up again”. “What am I going to do with my hubby?”.
Please. Get the woman some ointment.
Of course, the public argument is that access to marriage will guarantee same-sex couples the same legal entitlements as opposite-sex couples. And who could argue with that? Certainly not me. Nor my hubby. (Sorry.) What is routinely overlooked in this debate, though, is that in 2008, the Labor Government overturned around 100 laws identified as discriminatory by GLBTI activists and the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission.
Now, I don’t want to get sappy here because, frankly, I’m hoping to make a Body Pump class this afternoon. But I will say these historic laws Changed My Life. This suite of legislation changed many lives radically. You know all that stuff you see in tele-movies about queer people not being able to see their partner of sixty years on their deathbed? Now, thanks to the Gay and Lesbian Rights Lobby, illegal. Yay.
There were so many changes for us. Your same-sex partner can now take parental leave from work; contingent on circumstances, you may not be required to testify against your same-sex partner in criminal proceedings; you may now take carer’s leave if your same sex partner or a member of their immediate family is suffering illness. Oh. And importantly, same-sex couples now access Family Court should their relationship dissolve. The list goes on. And on. If you’re curious to check these entitlements for yourself or a queer friend , you can use this engine.
In short, a same-sex couple now has the same legal entitlements as what was once referred to as a “de facto” couple; the term “domestic partnership” is more commonly used. Now, I’m no La-Di-Da sociologist, but data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics seems to tell me that the domestic partnership is now a fact of Australian life as commonplace as marriage.
So, from a legal standpoint, my relationship is both legitimate and commonplace. I wish I could say the same about my commitment to Body Pump class. But, the lesbian-positive, motivational music of P!nk aside for the moment, I wanna know: WHY ARE WE ALL BANGING ON ABOUT MARRIAGE?
First – let’s be real – it’s not working out very well for straight people. Is it? And I can’t see my lot improving things. Second, it is the relic of a world in which queer people were shunned, medicated and criminalised. Queers demanding access to the institution of marriage makes about as much sense to me as, say, a woman demanding membership with the Masonic Lodge. That is, it’s an awful lot of energy to expend on joining an increasingly irrelevant club.
Third, and perhaps most urgently, I am terrified of Destination Weddings.
As you may have read last month, campaigners celebrated in Tasmania as a bill for marriage equality passed in the lower house. At the time of writing, it seems likely that this will be passed into State law and then, of course, Hobart’s MONA will be booked out for the next ten years by gay mainlanders.
You can celebrate this as a symbol of liberty all you want but you have clearly not done the punishing arithmetic. I estimate that this “progress” will cost my partner and I an extra $6000 per annum in airfares, gifts, new frocks and personal trainer fees. Yes. Personal trainer fees. If you think I’m going to attend a gay wedding in anything less than peak Body Pump condition, you know nothing of My People.
The arguments for same-sex marriage derive from an emotional rather than a legal standpoint. Of course, I can respect the idea that access to the institution – however withered it is – might promote acceptance and diminish homophobia. But, I’m telling you: that ring on your finger will not change the mind of bigots. That change to law will not alter the views of your cleric and, I’d suggest, there is no act that will breathe fresh sense into the stagnant swamp-minds of so-called “Christians”.
The question of marriage has divided the queer community, ignited the ignorance of homophobes and obscured the historic changes to law that were made for same-sex couples so very recently.
What it has done, I guess, is renew my gym membership. Excuse me. I’m off to clean-and-press to the tune of “Blow Me”.
Helen Razer is an occasional broadcaster, frequent writer and incessant yabber-pants. Follow her on twitter @HelenRazer or at Bad Hostess.
We recognise that not everyone is going to agree with Helen’s post. Please remember when commenting that Helen will be reading your responses – always argue the point, not the person.
Do you want to or have you got married?








Comments
69 Comments so far
I kind of want to bang my head on my desk repeatedly after reading this article.
I don’t want to have kids, so I guess that means no straight people wnat to have kids, so why should we give them that right.
Obviously every gay person is not the same, do we actually need an article about that? But there’s a hell of a lot of gay people who would like the CHOICE of whether to get married or not.
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I use “hubby” when I feel the need to be condescending, the rest of the time he is HusBoss,just to give him the illusion…
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I love the phrase(?) my hubby. I use it all the time. He has no issues with and neither do I. I also love being married. It’s another form of commitment, sure my siblings that are not married are not any less committed but sometimes having that piece of paper makes all the difference.
And regardless of who you choose to sleep with, it is a choice. That’s what’s it’s about, not kids, or religion, but CHOICE. If you want to, then you can. If you don’t, it makes no difference. Besides straight people fuck up marriages quite well on their own, so saying its sacrilege is null and void.
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Make that three – I find myself grinding my teeth at the word ‘hubby’.
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I have always wondered why people get married. i didn’t grow up in a religious community so I couldn’t see the difference between married and non-married couples. BUT this year I’ve been to two weddings and they are so insanely romantic and joyful and lovely! Important? No. Archaic? Probably. But also lovely, and there is just no reason to deny it to same sex couples.
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I have loved Helen Razor since her JJJ days but now I know why – we are maybe the two people on earth that hate the word “hubby”.
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Until the rest of us catch up with Tassie, I sure hope the curator at MONA brings back the Great Wall of Vagina exhibit! What a great backdrop for those gay wedding snaps.
On a serious note, I second Whippersnapper’s point below:
“…whilst the government did amend many pieces of legislation that were discriminatory against same sex couples, they also amended legislation regarding tax and Centrelink. Meaning that same sex couples have the same taxation and Centrelink declaring obligations as people who are married.
Which is unfair as if you are going to tax all couples the same way, then all couples should have the same rights to have their union legally recognized as a marriage.
Yes – the Centrelink and tax rules apply to all de facto couples. However, the difference is that opposite sex couples have the option to get married and same sex couples don’t.”
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Yes yes yes all well and good but the point remains that people should be able to get married if they want to. Just because you don’t want to and don’t believe it’s a choice with any meaning doesn’t mean it’s a pointless fight.
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Sigh of relief. Yup. Don’t want to be married. Thanks and all, recognize the human rights violation of having those of us who love women not able to perform same ceremonies as women who live men… But? Jeez. Marriage? Give me a daily reaffirmation of love, n good times and bad, from the person I love anytime…..
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One of my facebook ‘friends’ posted this today:
Good news everybody! The marriage equality bill has been defeated in the lower house!
What kind of sick freak doesn’t believe in equality?
Unfriended that motherf*cker. And fast.
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I would’ve done the same! (Unfriend that is)
Some fail to remember that their friends list incorporates all manner of different ppl. Sigh!
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As others have said, it’s about equal access to marriage, not whether you personally want it.
I’m not particularly interested in getting married – I’ve caught myself thinking “Isn’t that what you said last time?” at the “until death us do part” bit – but I want everyone to have the choice. As a bisexual woman it infuriates me that my ability to marry this person I’ve dated but not that one depends on the shape of one of their chromosomes.
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As a queer woman, I absolutely want to get married. And I want the right for my friends and peers to choose.
But many of my gay friends feel the same as Helen does. That it’s archaic and irrelevant. So yeah. Not all gay people care about it.
But the right to choose is paramount, in my book.
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Don’t want to get married? Then don’t, but this is about people having the CHOICE. Not every straight couple wishes to marry, but at least they have the choice. When will our pollies understand equality, and that gays vote, too?
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helen what spectacularly lucid sense you do make. i agree that the ‘club’ seems to be fast finding itself irrelevant… but i guess it’s like everything, all you have to do is tell someone that they can’t come to a party to make them really [rlly! RLY] want to.
bigots will not change and ignorance is bliss, however i do believe that love is all that matters and one person’s experience shouldn’t ‘trumps’ anyone else’s.
on a side note, mamamia, please continue to feature posts from this divine creature as i have an all-encompassing girl crush on her…
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Honey, right now you don’t have a choice on whether you marry or not.
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Helen Razer is such an entertaining writer! Really enjoyed this piece.
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I am surprised to hear this. Like everyone else, I think everyone should have a choice. Just because you’re not interested in marriage, doesn’t mean other gay couples don’t want to either.
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Perhaps we should be argueing to BAN all marriage? I’d cheer to that!
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You read my mind..or were listening this morning when over breakfast I was discussing this very thing with me..err…hubby.
Of course I didn’t express myself so eloquently ..in fact I suspect that him at the end of the table wasn’t even listening. Oh and I’m not gay, which most likely means I don’t /shouldn’t get to have an opnion. Best I’m off then. Tata.
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Do I want to marry some one of the same sex? No.
But as long as there exists one solitary same sex couple out there in the world, who want to marry because marrying somebody they love means something to them, I will always argue in favour of that for them.
That is the point of supporting equality for people who want and deserve equality, regardless of how you personally feel about the value of the equality they want.
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great perspective Helen, thanks for this. I think so many great advances in same sex equality are overlooked in the marriage debate
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I can understand your point Helen. Just because “your people” want something doesn’t mean you have to want it too.Some of “my people” ( straight, married people) want things I don’t particulary care for aswell. Each to their own I say!
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I see your point Helen, but everyone should have the SAME choices.
That is only fair and legal.
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It is certainly fair. It is currently NOT legal.
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I completely agree with you Helen but I can’t say anything because I’m straight. I’m in a de facto relationship and I’m also confident I have exactly the same rights as married couples. Personally – and I know I’m going to offend so many people here – I don’t understand why any woman (or any progressive man) would want to a right get married when the institution of marriage historically was all about depriving women of their rights. It’s irrevocably tarnished and today it’s all about the “wedding business”. Far better to forge your own path; create your own institution that’s not based on other women’s misery.
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“Marriage is historically about men depriving women of their rights”.
Geez…..I glad that I married my wife (and that she married me) because I love her (and she loves me).
Ain’t no deprivation in this house !
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Note the use of the word “historically”.
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Married heterosexuals support gay marriage because misery loves company?
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Haha!
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So many gay people don’t want to get married, sure – but so many do. It’s not about everyone getting married, it’s about everyone having the choice.
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Well, everyone has already said it for me – to summarise: relevant or not, one should be free to exercise the choice! I am married – 13 happy years and counting – after another 13 of being happily de facto, and did not marry for religious reasons; but to make a public declaration to my partner and the whole world that we love each other, intend to stay together and are a financial and legal entity, as well as a loving couple. This should be the case for all consenting adults, and isn’t yet, and should be. There, not hard, is it?
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I am single and 41 and never in a million years did I want to read a book about marriage.. however believe it or not.. the sequal to “Eat Prey Love” call “Commitment” is a fantastic read exploring the tradition of marriage and where is all came from and why some do it some way, and others another way, and others that dont at all..
I found myself fascinated by the research she had done on the subject and it it changed my views on the why of getting married..
Check it out..
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Many straight people don’t want to get married either- but they have the choice.
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You’ve said it in a most eloquent way Helen, but I couldn’t disagree more. For a long time I thought the same way you do. As a gay woman, why would I want to be part of an institution constructed and defined by straight people and which justifies and entrenches hetero-normative ideas of gender stereotyping etc…? Well, the fundamental issue is that it is my choice. I don’t have to act on that choice (which, a a matter of fact I will on Sept 7 next year, with or without the legal right to do so) but I cannot begin to list the many reasons we should all fight for this right.
Just remember the incidious and dangerous slope to the erosion of rights never starts with the ones you most care about and find personally important. Those start to disappear long after you realise you should have been fighting for equality for all right from the start.
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Marriage should be an option for everybody who desires it. My partner and I have been together for 20 years, two kids, two interstate moves, two dogs, and several changes of career, and have never married. We’re just not into it. But we are more than willing to celebrate the weddings of those who ARE into it. Gay or straight. It’s an equality issue.
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Okay so off I go again. I know Helen – she is a great lass, knows her way around a menu and a wine list, and plays great poker. She is a very nice woman, as is her lovely partner. We often have a wee banter on twitter and favourite one another’s tweets. We have socialised together, worked together and share many friends.
But Helen and I disagree on one point in this discussion. It has nothing to do with Pink, nothing to do with Tasmania and destination weddings at Mona, and nothing at all to do with Body Pump.
It has to do with equality. Whether it is called gay marriage, same sex marriage or lesbian marriage, it is an issue of equality. It is the issue that gay and lesbian couples who are committed to one another, and who, as Helen mentions, have equality to defacto couples, are denied the very basic right to choose whether they will marry, in Tasmania or elsewhere.
What is at issue is equality – the right of my lesbian sisters and gay brothers to make a choice as to how they legally and socially recognise their relationships.
It is also a matter of discrimination. It is a fact that whilst those in our community who would choose to legally wed their significant other in whatever guise, they are denied this choice and our constitution says we should not discriminate against people around race, religion, sexual identity or preference etc. To deny up to 10% of Aussies the right to make a choice, is discrimination.
More than 60% of Australians support affording equal marriage to all Australians. Governments are elected to represent the will of the people, and the will of the majority is that gay and lesbian people should have the right to choose how they legally and formally solemnize their relationship.
Many gay and lesbian people probably don’t want to get married but whether they want to or not, we deserve the right to choose. My hubby (as we call one another now and we are not married) and I would probably do it – do it so that our kids understand that our relationship is okay and we can get married like Mum did. We would probably do it so that we can share what it is we share with our family and our friends.
So as I pack my bags to head off to a destination wedding of my straight friends in Fiji, and as I think about Pink playing in the background after they declare their love, I am more convinced than ever that we deserve the right, as our straight friends do, to choose to make this mistake.
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Said far better than I could!
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I guess the point is having the choice.
My parents don’t believe in marriage and so never did it.
They have been together for over 30 years so obviously there is no need.
Both my brother and sister don’t want to get married, but I do.
Weddings don’t always have to put you in debt. I’ll just sign up for one of those wedding shows where the HUBBY picks the wedding!!!
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It’s irrelevant if you personally don’t want to get married.
I’m straight and I don’t want to get married either. But I have the option to get married if I want to, and you should have that option too!
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Helen, you are a fiery, brilliant woman and I don’t always agree with you – but I am eternally in awe of your wit, style and sass. I’m really glad you wrote this article – while I believe very much in same-sex marriage being a choice for any couple in love, I also agree it’s “an increasingly irrelevant club.” The institution of marriage is far less urgent than all the other legal entitlements you listed.
I’m so pleased you brought up the many life-changing laws that’ve been overturned for same-sex couples. Thank you for doing that.
KL xx
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I am still proud that Tasmania which was embarrassingly the last state to legalise homosexuality is the first to legalise Gay marriage. Symbolic of the change in people’s attitudes in my home state. Yay!!
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We weren’t actually the last state to legalise homosexuality (which would have been embarrassing) but rather we were the last state to revoke outdated legislation which banned homosexuality but which hadn’t actually been used in decades. I’m surprised this is still the way Tasmania is seen, even by Tasmanians but hey, mud sticks Do agree on our newly found progressiveness Amandarose!!!!
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isn’t not revoke a law that makes homosexuality illegal the same as not legalising it? Do you not remember that time when UN intervention was needed? And as for being bigoted and non progressive- Yes it was and I was unhappily a bigot at the time. I remember that time as most rural areas were full of generous, kind, welcoming people who also happened to be religious zealots and the rural areas were full of pot heads, alcoholics and eccentrics.
I feel qualified to say this as my family fell into religious zealots( Jehovah’s witnesses) and eccentrics. But also kind and would never be hateful to people’s faces. The area we lived I. Was full of similar people – kind but also kind of bigoted and odd.
But it has progressed so much since then. Maybe the mainland was the same in that era?
I had severe culture shock when I moved to Victoria having barely left Tasmania my whole life. People we not as open or as kind or warm( so Melbourne- that was you!!! ).
But seriously is it not wonderful?
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It is a groovy little place that’s for sure but have you heard the Upper House is unlikely to pass the same sex marriage bill? Bugger it all (no pun intended even if UN intervention is required!!!!).
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Great article – love your writing. More please.
I had an irrational desire to get married. For most of my life I thought the concept was stale and odd and I am no white-gown-woman BUT when my “hubby” and I got together I was in a rush to sign that irrelevant piece of paper (minus the gown and fluffy affair – registry office for us). I agree with the posts below – I’d like to think we all have the choice.
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Not every gay person wants to get married, but every consenting couple should have the choice.
Extending equality, and eliminating discrimination, is the road towards a happy, healthy LGBT community.
Growing up, there were so many times I felt excluded and unvalued because of my sexual orientation. This was the sole reason I was a depressed and hopeless teenager.
Many young gay and lesbian Australians feel this way too. This overwhelming feeling is ubiquitous, and when I was in school it was all I could see.
I felt rejected by the media. I felt rejected by the community. I felt rejected by my school and everywhere else that was meant to be safe and welcoming.
As I came to the end of my education – and the end of my tether – I started to see people like me included in television programs. Not just included, but celebrated.
Will & Grace, Queer Eye For The Straight Guy and Queer As Folk were suddenly making television inclusive of me, and I sought refuge in that, and it helped me become the strong individual I am today.
We need to ensure this messge of worthiness and inclusiveness gets stronger for every generation if we want to overcome the prejudices and serious mental health issues plaguing our society.
It’s still deeply saddening that there is so much exclusion – and rejection – by the mainstream. Every day we move closer to a fully inclusive society I feel more loved, more welcome and more valued.
I don’t want my worth to exceed that of straight Australians, but I think the key to ending LGBTQ suicide, depression and hopelessness lies in 100% inclusion and equality.
This is why I support equal marriage rights for all Australians.
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Ditto!
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Oh Helen, how I love you!
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I love being married and wish everyone could experience the joy…lol… I think Helen sounds a little bitter here…choice is what it’s about baby….everyone should have the choice! And that’s why they’re banging on about gay marriage.
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Great writing, but I completely disagree with you. I am pro-choice when it comes to marriage.
Don’t like gay marriage? Then don’t get one.
But don’t deny others the choice.
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Totally agree. It’s about having the choice.
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YOU GO GIRL!!
I’ve missed your awesomness Helen. Hope the pump class was satisfying.
I’m all for marriage equality but can not get my head around this “gay marriage” concept. I’m not having a “straight” marriage because I happen to be marrying a man. 2 of my female friends who are marrying in NZ next year are not having a “gay” marriage just because they happen to be both women.
Does this gay marriage platform still define us by our sexual orientation? Does it still reinforce this myth that sexuality is definable & based upon binary opposites of hetro/homesexual?
How about we take a handful of words out of the marriage act & get on with the wedding – and the divorce!
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I’ve missed you Helen!! Welcome back to public life! I spend many years listening to you and Mikey during my uni years.
Thanks for putting another spin on the argument out there- I had not thought of any of that and was only vaguely aware of the laws that had been changed to make same-sex relationships recognised to the same degree as hetero defacto relationships. All that is very very important, and I wonder if a Liberal government would have done the same- unlikely! I hope if they get in (nooo!) that they cannot repeal any of these laws. I do agree with Lolly below though- I strongly believe in equality for all- it’s just a no-brainer and it frustrates the hell out of me when others think otherwise. I think we should (and will get round to it eventually- sooner rather than later I hope) legalising same-sex marriage so everyone at least has the option to choose.
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I’ll be honest, the gay marriage debate has frustrated me somewhat. Yes, I think gay people should be able to get married if they want to, but it’s annoying to me that that debate has almost completely removed any discussion of whether marriage is even relevant today.
About 10-15 years ago that was a big topic of discussion in the Western world, and it was just getting interesting when the first big push for gay marriage began. That was actually the first time I ever heard people saying marriage was all about love. For my parents generation it had been much more about responsibility and obligation and expectation. Love was secondary at best. Up until very, very recently, marriage has had nothing to do with love and everything to do with money and respectability. It’s been a tool of oppression, and in many countries it still is today. I want to get back to that debate.
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…why not continue to evolve marriage so that the women-as-property/marriage-for-money legacy is a distant memory?
Marriage is relevant because many couples share love, support, and a lifelong commitment and feel that so important a relationship–a loving couple is, in my opinion, the smallest unit of a family–should be recognised, given according rights and responsibilities. Marriage is what helps move a couple from love and commitment to love, commitment, and *family.* I know I look forward to the day the laws change and my fiancée will be recognized as my family, and she as mine!
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Great article, Helen ! I completely support same sex marriage. That goes without saying.
However….the topic is being done to death on this site. I expect to be told that waving the topic from the rooftops will continue to raise awareness. If we aren’t aware by now, we never will be.
I feel that this constant “in your face” campaign will turn some supporters off, and yes…I am aware that I don’t have to read the article.
But, good on you, Helen.
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I am a straight recently married woman. I have quite a few gay friends, some of them would love the opportunity to have a day that’s all about them and their partner and the love they share, some of them have no interest in getting married. Just like my straight friends. It’s about being given the CHOICE.
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I am a straight, recently married woman. I have quite a few gay friends, some of them would love the chance to experience what i did with a day that’s all about them and their partner and the love they share, some of them have no interest in it. Just like my straight friends. It’s about being allowed to make the choice.
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That was a fantastic article Helen and you raised some interesting points (as well as being bloody funny)… I do wonder though if a “straight” person had written it whether it would have the same impact… They usually get judged and labelled a “homophobe” when disputing the same sex marriage agenda… Thanks so much for your insight!!
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Not all straight people want to get married either. But they all have the option.
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I’ve got to say, Helen, whilst the government did amend many pieces of legislation that were discriminatory against same sex couples, they also amended legislation regarding tax and Centrelink. Meaning that same sex couples have the same taxation and Centrelink declaring obligations as people who are married.
Which is unfair as if you are going to tax all couples the same way, then all couples should have the same rights to have their union legally recognized as a marriage.
Yes – the Centrelink and tax rules apply to all de facto couples. However, the difference is that opposite sex couples have the option to get married and same sex couples don’t.
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