Today the results of a committee inquiry into same-sex marriage are being tabled in the Federal Parliament. A record 276,000 submissions were received. That number is quite simply, unheard of for an inquiry of this kind.
Around two thirds of the submissions were supportive of same-sex marriage. But there was by no means a clear consensus. There continue to be strong views on both sides of the aisle. Here is one of them by ANDREW CLIFTON.
Same-sex marriage should never be legalised BECAUSE:
1. You cannot change the definition of a word, that’s why no word has ever been redefined in all of history;
2. Marriage is a sacred holy ritual, that’s why every single marriage happens in a religious institution and there isn’t a growing majority of religious-free civil ceremonies;
3. Homosexuality is a perverse human desire, that’s why you can’t see it naturally occurring in any other species;
4. The sole purpose of marriage is for reproduction, that’s why postmenopausal women and men who have had vasectomies are also legally prevented from marrying;
5. Children will suffer not being raised by their biological parents, that’s why all adoption is illegal and there are no happy people who weren’t raised by those who conceived them;
6. It’s the law and no laws are ever amended, that’s why no-fault divorce doesn’t exist;
7. The Bible tells us so, that’s why I know menstruating women are unclean, I can own a slave and kill my mum if I see her working on a Sunday.
Andrew Clifton is 24 years old and has always had a passion for writing. He believes the power of the written word is limitless.
Where do you stand? Should same-sex marriage be illegal? And what do you think is likely to be the outcome of a vote in the Parliament? Will our politicians vote for change?
Comments
136 Comments so far
Gay marriage should be legal. All arguments against it are bullshit. I am straight, but i still believe that if you love someone you should be able to be legally recognised as their parter, regardless of what gender you are. Gay couples raising children should be encouraged because of the large amounts of children around who need a home. Ahh, I wish I was raised by a gay couple. There are no reasons why gay marriage should not be legalised.
loading...
I woul ‘respect’ different people’s opinion on this, but this isn’t Daylight savings. It’s not affecting the community. Gay couples can’t marry because they are Gay, that my friend is discrimination. People have been gay for thousands of years. There were gay images on the walls of Pompeii! Let them get married, if you don’t like it, don’t attend. I’m sure your self righteous bigotry will be better left at home in your class bubble.
loading...
agreed.
loading...
maybe yu should read the bibble and see what it says about gay marriage
loading...
I’m sorry to say, I don’t think you should write “7 DUMB reasons” it’s not right, because every opinion is personal, and calling someone else’s opnion “dumb” is just wrong.
loading...
Couldn’t agree more. If there was a post written the other way it wouldn’t be published/ would have hate speech written all over it. So much for respecting other people’s opinions and beliefs
loading...
Why is it wrong? Read each of the passages. Do they sound dumb? Are they actual views that people hold? Yes they are. Opinions shouldn’t be given sanctity because we have the capacity to form them. They should be judged and the sound ones should be promoted and the faulty ones should be shown for what they are.
If I said the Earth was flat what would you do? Would you vehemently try to preserve some sort of right for me to believe such stupidity, or would you at least try to point out that this view is flawed and show me evidence to the contrary?
loading...
Man you couldn’t of been more right
loading...
“If you don’t believe in same-sex marriage, then don’t you marry somebody of the same sex.” Wanda Sykes
It’s that simple…..
loading...
Forget about same sex marriage and your overly humorous reasons, homosexuality should be illegal.
loading...
That is so true!
Anything that hurts other people should be illegal! Homosexuality is seriously hurting people because… um, wait… let me rephrase that….
Homosexuality should be illegal because it’s not natural, no-one is born that way, it’s totally a choice to be gay – if I wanted to be gay I would be able to be too because anyone can choose to be because … wait, that doesn’t make sense either…
loading...
I am not hurting anyone right now. God, just becoz we’re homosexual doesn’t mean we’re unnatural. And you don’t just suddenly choose to b gay. a few years ago, i’d give my life to be straight. But now, I am lesbian and i am proud. Oh and btw, u can’t talk, if being gay is unnatural, r u saying discrimination is?
loading...
Prejudiced, ignorant people should be illegal!
loading...
For a minute there I thought Andrew’s arguments were serious, because this is the kind of drivel that spills from the mouths and minds of anti-marriage equality (and anti-equality in general) fanatics!
loading...
well I think killing your mother might a bit extreme if she’s working on a Sunday, particularly if she working making the dinner!
But you know the sad thing is it isn’t that long ago that it was also illegal for interracial marriages to occur. Why do humans feel the need to control choices others make in their lives.
I probably would never have an abortion, however, I believe in women’s rights to have the freedom of choice for safe abortion.
I will never marry a man but I believe others should have that choice to do so if they wish.
I will also never use contraception, but I believe in safe and effective contraception for others (and am happy to have it subsidised to assist women/ girls/ families make choices about child bearing)
I will marry my partner (wife) that I have known for 17 years and with whom I have 3 children as soon as it is legal.
Just because one will not benefit/ be advantaged/ disadvantaged by a particular thing does not mean we should not support change where someone else gets the same freedom of choice we have.
loading...
Love it!!
loading...
Love
loading...
Wait! If I hang out with tall people, I’ll be tall! Dammit, knew I was doing something wrong.
loading...
Gay Marriage Should Be Legalised
In this country we believe everyone has the right to happiness so why can’t homosexuals? If a man and a woman care for each other and love each other they are allowed to get married and start a family but if a man and a man of a woman and a woman want to get married they are denied that same happiness.
So people might say that it shouldn’t be legalised because the point of a marriage is to have a family and if two men or woman adopted a child that that child would suffer. If you ask children in these situations they support gay marriage and are completely fine with it, in fact they and no more disadvantaged then the rest of us. Not having a man or woman figure in the household doesn’t affect children more than a divorced couple.
loading...
Awesome Andrew! Hope to see more of your writing here soon.
loading...
hahahahaha…. hahahaha. ridiculous.
loading...
If we are going to redefine marriage to include relationships other than between a man and a woman, why not marriage equality for polyamorous relationships? Objectively, these meet the same criteria as homosexual relationships (loving, exclusive, loyal, ethical, trusting etc), but are even more inclusive (there are three or more people involved) and tolerant (they can be straight, homosexual or bisexual). For that matter, if we are rejecting religious values altogether, why not recognise the rights of adult family members to marry (brother-sister, father-daughter, mother-son, brother-brother or sister-sister). Why would we disciminate against them? Clearly, most people’s consciences would tell them that recognising such relationships as ‘marriage’ would be wrong, although many might be hard put to explain why in purely secular terms.
Marriage is by definition and has always been between a man and a woman. If homosexual or other relationships deserve legal recognition on equitable grounds then legislate for it, but let’s not pretend they are ‘equal to’, as in ‘the same as’, marriage by calling them ‘marriage’ – they’re not.
loading...
Dammit cant we have one pro-gay-marriage discussion without someone trying to bring in a fight for polygamy?!
Realistically they are fundamentally different. Legally, polygamous marriage is a nasty can of worms.
marriage is a partnership between two people. Its therefore relatively (legally) simple to sort out succession, divorce, division of assets, etc down the track.
Polygamous marriage is an unnecessarily complex can of worms. All of the abovementioned legal issues turn into one big massive s***fight because its not as simple as saying the ‘surviving spouse’, because there are 2 or 3 or 4, and THEN there might be children to partner A,B or C etc to consider.
Seriously I acknowledge its possible to love two people equally, but why call it a marriage?
Even if it IS what you want, please dont drag that into the pro-gay-marriage argument – because it IS a different kettle of fish.
loading...
Seriously! AGAIN?? F***ing hell! They.Are.Different.Things.
One is a monogamous lifelong partnership between two people at the exclusion of all others (sound familiar? Marriage is marriage, regardless of the sexes) and the other is a relationship between an undefined number of people not to the exclusion of all but one.
Polygamy might be a loving, respectful, healthy relationship (although clearly that isn’t the case in many circumstances that have been brought to light over the years) – but it is not in any way reflective of the concept or construct of the institution of marriage.
Find a new legal definition to acknowledge and protect polygamy if you want, and fight for the legalisation of that. Don’t do the gay community the disservice of inappropraitely and unnecessarily muddying the waters of whether gay marriage should be legalised.
loading...
You have got to be kidding…..
loading...
Life is evolving, times are changing, we live in a world where there has been constant redefining. If it wasn’t, women would never have been allowed to vote. Someone who is Irish couldn’t have someone who is from Greece, According to the bible, we should go in and stone everyone who works in a Westfields on the Sabbath.
Same sex marriage has nothing to do with polygamy. This is about TWO consenting adults who want to get married. We recognize their relationship is every other sense of the word and yet people want to stop them from getting married. I don’t understand the argument and I’m yet to see anyone make a truly valid point as to why we shouldn’t recognize marriages between partners of the same sex.
loading...
“Objectively, these meet the same criteria as homosexual relationships” – actually that’s entirely incorrect.
Same-sex couples have access to the same federal rights that cohabitating opposite-sex couples have. In more than 100 areas of law, “de facto partner” is now defined to include both same-sex and opposite-sex couples. The rights extended to same-sex couples include, among others: joint social security and veterans’ entitlements, employment entitlements, superannuation, workers’ compensation, joint access to the Medicare Safety Net, hospital visitation, immigration, inheritance rights, and the ability to file a joint tax return and gain the same tax rebates as married couple (copied from Wiki)
This is NOT the case with a polyamorous relationship – only one partner has legal recognition. Spend a few decades fighting hard to have that second partner recognised, THEN you can argue polyamorous marriages should be made legal.
I can’t even comment on the last paragraph you wrote because there is no way I can do so and be polite and tactful about it.
loading...
Hahhahahah.. ah me. that was funny.
loading...
Hahhahahah.. ah me. that was funny.
Be HONEST with yourself.. your logic is wrong isn’t it? So wrong. And yet you turn a blind eye. People like you are scary because even in the face of facts, you pretend it can’t be so. Your logic and comparisons are flawed.
loading...
Great work Andrew! This list should be printed on the side of buildings!
Overtime things will change…they have to
CROSSING FINGERS.
loading...
Silly question, maybe, but reason number 2, is there animals that also are homosexual? I’m all for same sex marriage as i believe its a question of human rights not sexual orientation but I seem uneducated in the sexual orientation of animals other than humans on this topic, can anyone shed some light on this for me?
purely for my curiosity.
loading...
I’d list them for you but there are about 1500 different species of non-human animals who have been observed to engage in homosexual behaviours. Wikipedia has a list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
Whenever humans think something we do is unique to us, we are usually wrong.
loading...
I can personally vouch for homosexual animals.
As part of our heterosexual human family we have pet lesbian parrots who paired themselves, and we have homosexual male horses that cant stand being without each other.
Its not a human thing, and clearly they didnt ‘learn it’ from us either!
loading...
i used to have a lesbian dog! she wouldnt go near the fellas, but would, urm, heavily express desire to the females.
loading...
I liked this story on Facebook and it came up “Same sex marriage should stay illegal” and I had to delete it because I didn’t want anyone to think I was a homophobe. Can you change the headline? I’d love to promote the post, but not if it’s going to come up with that.
loading...
The same thing happened to me!
loading...
I personally do not believe in marriage at all. The idea to me personally seems archaic and something that has never personally appealed to me.
That being said I’m absolutely pro marriage equality. Everyone should have the same rights as everyone else. It’s about choice. Not every same sex couple want to get married, just like many hetro couples don’t want to get married. But if they want to, it should be their right to choose.
I hate the slippery slope argument. We allowed women to vote, do we now have giraffes lining up at the ballot box? We allowed couples from different races or religions to get married, are people trying to marry their siblings, dogs or television sets? The argument just doesn’t make any sense.
Equality is simple. People should be allowed to get married if they want. It’s that simple.
loading...
Ummm, not to miss the point of this (which is a good one) but has this been plaigarised a wee bit? I “shared” something incredibly similar a month or so back on my FB page, but it had an American slant – by “shared”, Iean I shared a link- not that I wrote it myself! It was titled “Ten dumb reasons… Etc”. I think 7 of them were the same?!
loading...
How about ’7 reasons every day seems like groundhog day on MM regarding this topic’.
You are preaching to the converted for the most part on here guys. We get it already. There are more important issues in the world to discuss in here on a daily basis.
loading...
I tend to agree, though at least this one made me laugh! Was a nice change from feeling just frustrated that nothing has changed yet!
loading...
If marriage equality became a reality, MM wouldn’t have to keep posting about it, would they? In a world where companies like Gloria Jeans won’t take a stance on such an important issue, I’m pleased that MM takes a very clear stance.
loading...
There are many more ‘life and death’ causes that have not been resolved in the world that M does not cover day in day out.
loading...
I really hope that soon we’ll be treating this issue in the same regard as allowing women to vote. Nowadays it’s ludicrous to think that a time even existed where women couldn’t vote! I hope I’m around long enough to say “omg remember when homosexuals weren’t allowed to marry? How ridiculous was that!”
Come on guys: let’s put the years of discrimination behind us, because quite frankly that’s what it is!
loading...
Only a few weeks ago, someone said to me “and he’s a raving homosexual” and I thought “what an old fashioned, odd, thing to say.”
Unfortunately I couldn’t come up with a pithy response.
loading...
My gosh. I can’t believe people still feel this way in the 21st century. Our children and their children will be disgusted in us and the “debate” this has caused, and they should be. I sure am.
loading...
I’ve spoken to a number of people on the subject of same sex marriage, and for the benefit of everyone, this is what I’ve discovered.
The majority of individuals I spoke to are middle class professionals and generally conservative, both in nature and political belief.
Most don’t care if an individual is homosexual. What people do in private is their own business.
Most don’t care if one of their workmates is homosexual, what counts is their ability to do the job.
Most don’t have a religeous basis for their beliefs.
Most don’t care if homosexuals are allowed to marry, in fact, most expressed a belief that homosexuals should have to put up with the law as it applies to heterosexuals within marriages.
So there you have it, I’m with them, I simply don’t care if homosexuals are allowed to marry or not. However , I believe that my homosexual brother and homesexual nephew should have exactly the same law applied to them as heterosexuals.
It’s about equality for everyone. Male, female, straight, gay, black and white.
loading...
Unfortunately, my experience has not been quite the same… I know a lot of people who are staunchly opposed, even though it couldn’t possibly affect them at all.
Examples; Facebook friends who take the time to write “DISLIKE THIS” on any Gay marriage posts I make on Facebook.
Christian Facebook friends who actually publically rejoiced when new Qld Premier Campbell Newman removed the rights for gay couples to have a ceremony with their civil union.
Colleagues who loudly claim that “it’s disgusting” and when I tell them how strongly I disagree they say things like “but they ARE second class citizens”
WTF are all of these people’s problems??!!
It makes me sad and disappointed and disheartened.
Love is love.
loading...
I don’t have a problem with same sex relationships being legally recognised, in fact I think they need to be.
But I do have a problem with it being called marriage. Marriage is a religious term (whether it be Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish) that refers to the union of a man and a woman. Yes a man and a woman get married in civil ceremonies but they are still respecting the religious definition of the word “marriage” when they refer to being “married”.
I think if people removed the idea that it had to be referred to as marriage and came up with a new term for it, a lot more people would be open to the idea. Much of the opposition is towards the use of the word “marriage”, not the idea of legalising same sex relationships.
But that’s my opinion and as someone has said people, I am entitled to it and hope that it allows for a helpful and productive discussion rather than an attack on my opinions.
loading...
Marriage is *now* a religious term, or rather it was adopted by religious bodies who saw its usefulness.
loading...
Marriage was originally a ‘business’ transaction type of thing, nothing to do with religeon per se.
loading...
Here we go again…
Marriage is not a religious term, when I get married it will have nothing to do with god as both myself and my partner do not believe in god. The person who would marry us would not have anything to do with a church or religion and we would get married somewhere (for example in park) that has nothing to do with god or religion. We are a straight couple and if our marriage has nothing to do with god, why would all marriages by gay couples?
loading...
If by using the word “marriage” you think I am “respecting the religious definition of the word” then you had better call me a civilly bonded atheist.
There is no religion in my marriage, yet it is still a marriage.
In fact, since a marriage is defined as a close relationship between two things (the marriage of music and lyrics, for example) then you could say any two people who are in a romantic relationship are already in a marriage… even if they don’t have the paper to prove it! Paper’s cheap. Let’s let them have it, hey?
loading...
A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet…
loading...
Marriage is not a religious act. It’s not Holy Communion or anything akin to that. It is actually a civil and legal act these days.
If you chose to get married in a church, that’s one thing, it’s a choice. Marriage has nothing to do with religion
loading...
sorry but my marriage which was a civil ceremony never mentioned religion. Religious organisations do not “own” the term
loading...
Marriage was invented by Pagans. Like many other Christian rituals (Easter, Christmas), it was adapted to Christianity, linking with a Christian belief, to encourage more Pagans to convert. The bridal veil, for example, was originally worn to ward off evil spirits.
So you’re right, marriage was started by a religion. But not the one you think. And, to my knowledge, Pagan beliefs have nothing against same sex marriage.
loading...
Marriage is not a religious act. It is an act regulated by the government. Baptism, communion and bah mitzvah are religious acts.
Marriage is controlled by the government through legislation. Just like social security payments and tax are controlled by the government through legislation.
loading...
Actually you are a bit off on that. Within the Christian Church marriage is a sacrament that is the representation of Christ’s relationship to the church. I can’t explain it of course, nor would many care… but just to lend some understanding that marriage is a representation of Christ’s relationship to the church. “I will never leave you or forsake you”. The reason the Christian church is worried about this is not that we would hold others to our beliefs BUT that it does have sacred and religious meaning to us. (Christ and His bride – the Church – the marriage of fallen man reconciled to God through Christ) Personally I want same sex unions to have the same rights as everyone else, but prefer “legal unions”… for reasons aforementioned.
loading...
“Yes a man and a woman get married in civil ceremonies but they are still respecting the religious definition of the word “marriage” when they refer to being “married”.”
Huh? How does that work? The religious definition often includes a general understanding of ‘go forth & procreate’, and if the civil marriage people have no intention / ability to procreate, then I don’t think they are ‘respecting the religious definition’.
loading...
It breaks my heart that my beautiful son doesn’t have the same rights as his brother and sister simply because of who he loves! We are fighting for the right for people to love each other, not hate but love, something that Jesus commands us to do.
My son did not choose a lifestyle as is often claimed, he just is, and he deserves the right to spend a cajillion dollars on his special day just like any straight person.
loading...
You forgot No. 8 – because it makes me feel icky*
*not me personally btw
loading...
The thing is that is the actual and only reason, hiding behind all those other ones.
loading...
Agree. This should be the #1 ‘reason’.
I don’t understand why it makes people feel icky – although imagining old wrinkly people (of any combination) having sex makes me feel icky, therefore I choose not to think about it!
loading...
Well said Tara!
loading...
I’m not anonymous on this, because I don’t feel I should have to be. I don’t believe in same sex marriages, and I don’t have a particular reason, but I don’t believe it in. And i don’t think I should have to either – I think much of the debate about same sex marriage has had a focus on hating persons who don’t agree with the idea. I don’t express my view with hatred or disgust, I’m not rude, and I respect others opinions. I think if everyone, when discussing this issue, was more respectful of others, the debate would be much easier to have.
loading...
No, you shouldn’t have to feel like you need to be anonymous!
But what is there to not ‘believe’ in? It’s just a funny way to put it. I am confused. If you don’t have a reason, I can only conclude that you just find it ‘icky’, which makes me sad.
loading...
Tallulah,
I don’t believe in calling it a marriage. To me, marriage is a religious term, between a man and a woman, and I think it should stay like that. I don’t have a problem with same sex relationships being legally recognised, and in fact, I think they should be. I know the argument is that the word marriage is no longer recognised as being religious, but to me, it is. And that’s my view! But I do appreciate you being respectful in having the discussion.
loading...
It’s good to hear your opinion. I don’t agree with you as to me it’s not about religion – but you’ve given me something to think about as my issue is seeing my gay relative have the same legal rights as I do as a married woman.
loading...
JulieS,
Absolutely agree – gay people should have the same rights when it comes to adoption, custody, separation, death benefits, etc. For me, the issue simply boils down to the word ‘marriage’.
loading...
My partner and I (hetrosexual couple) are not religious. How do you feel about us using the term marriage?
Not having a go at you, just curious.
loading...
But religion didn’t invent marriage, nor owns it, so a religion defining marriage as it’s OWN is a false argument.
And NOONE owns any word in the dictionary.
loading...
I too feel need to be anonymous, but it doesn’t bother me about marriage – I just feel often marriage can lead to wanting a family & I think a child’s best interests are mostly with biological parents – and therefore this can never be the case with both gay parents. So more marriage could mean more children being denied both parents living and raising them. I don’t know how to explain it better sorry. I do realise two parents who love and want a child is the main thing, but dont agree with purposefully denying a child a present mother & father.
loading...
Respectfully, i could not possibly disagree with you more!!
loading...
Because all heterosexual families are doing such a grand job of raising children!
loading...
My daughter (and thousands others) is being denied one of her biological parents because he denies us. That’s his choice. We’re better off without him, as are many other families in our situation.
Wouldn’t more marriage mean more married people? In stable, conscious relationships? Why is that a bad thing?
loading...
When homosexual people have children, it’s usually because they decide to, they want to, and they have thought about it. Many children grow up in an environment with their “mum” and “dad” and they are not wanted, loved or made to feel special.
I know which situation I’d prefer.
loading...
So how do you see adoption?
What about lovely couples who cant physically have them and decided to help a child by adopting them into their lives, so they can have a better one?
loading...
Well, as you say, you are perfectly entitled to hold any opinion you like. However, it seems incredibly superficial to believe that others should be denied the opportunity to do something highly significant in their lives (but that you are) for no better reason other than “that’s just what i think”. Surely there should be some reasonably solid (and logical) arguments put up to deny others the opportunity to be married?
I’m someone who “believes” in same-sex marriage, or more specifically, allowing same sex couples to be married in accordance with the marriage act. I certainly don’t hate anyone who disagrees with me on this – and i’d be interested if you could cite any examples of this happening in a public forum. What i do feel is a tremendous amount of frustration at the very weak and usually illogical/irrational arguments or reasons put up against allowing same sex marriage………and you have provided yet another source of frustration – well done.
loading...
I agree with you generally, though don’t feel frustrated by Sam. I think it takes a lot of guts to own what is becoming an increasingly unpopular opinion.
You’re spot on in the first paragraph, though. If someone feels something isn’t right, but cannot otherwise justify that feeling, then that person should act on that feeling in their own life but not use it to influence anyone else.
For example, I “feel” that breastfeeding older children is a bit off; I can’t put my finger on exactly why, it’s just this gut thing I have going on. So I won’t do it myself. That said, I’m not going to judge those who do, or deny them the opportunity to do it if that’s their thing, until there is strong evidence to support that it is *actually* detrimental.
Not the best analogy, of course, but that was the only thing I could think of (in my own experience) to relate to this.
loading...
Leon,
I don’t believe religion is a weak or illogical argument – to you it may be, but to me, it is important.
There have been examples of hatred happening on Mamamia in relation to debate on same sex marriage – It’s just that the boards here are usually moderated…
loading...
Like most people have said; everyone is entitled to their own opinion, which you are. It’s what make this country great.
I have a problem with you referring to ‘marriage’ as a religious word/concept/ act. Most, especially these days, people don’t associate marriage with religion. I for example don’t see the connection as I am not religious and don’t think you are only allowed to take a vow of forever if you believe in God. I also have a problem with people defining the rights of others based on their own morals. Stating that same sex couples cant marry because it’s against your religion or morals is illogical.
I once read a poster that said “claiming that someone’s marriage is against your religion is like being angry with a person eating a doughnut because your on a diet”.
Point is, marriage is not about god, not anymore, it has nothing to do with religion for the millions of non religious people who get married everyday- why should it be about religion for same sex couples?!?
I
loading...
Iz,
So your point is something like ‘marriage is no longer about religion, it’s more of a state thing than something about religion, it’s about confirming legal status upon a relationship’. My argument to that is then, what about a civil union? Any arrangement that confers the same legal rights upon a couple…
loading...
Sam – a couple of points. First, nowhere in your post did you mention anything about religion. Secondly, if you want to bring religion into it, then you are well within your rights to abstain from same sex marriage but don’t impose your beliefs on others. This is about changing an act of parliament, which isn’t the same as trying to change the bible (or Koran etc). Anyway, Christians don’t own marriage.
loading...
Your belief isn’t necessary. Just like somehow can have a different religion to you, your belief in their god isn’t necessary for them to believe.
Marriage has nothing to do with religion. It is a civil and legal act. Some people get married in a church, many people don’t. Does that mean you don’t believe in calling it a marriage if people are married outside a church?
loading...
you are entitled to your opinion and you shouldn’t be anonymous. If you don’t believe then don’t marry someone of your gender but why should some peoples “belief” stop those who it actually affects?
loading...
Everyone,
My belief is simply that – I don’t believe in same sex marriage. I think marriage should continued to be defined strictly – a union between a man and a woman. I don’t have to have a practical or scientific reason about why I believe what I do, nor do you have to have a practical or scientific reason for same sex marriage. I believe changing the definition of marriage would change my marriage and millions around me. As was said by the archbishop of Sydney:
‘My marriage would be different. It’s no good asserting otherwise. When a society redefines one of its basic institutions, it affects everyone. I would have to find a different word for my marriage, or add the rider ”heterosexual” to the word ”marriage”.’
My opinion on this topic is simply that: my opinion. However, I don’t believe that I am in a minority of thinking like I do, I just believe that at the moment, my opinion is unpopular.
On a related note: did you know that 2 mothers or 2 fathers are now listed on a birth certificate? Again, in my opinion, this is too far. A birth certificate should only acknowledge the biological facts.
loading...
So, no-one’s asking you to get married to a gay person – that’s your choice.
I don’t know why you think your opinion gives you the right to restrict someone else’s choice to get married though.
No-one should think they’re that important.
loading...
My opinion is that everyone who fits the definition of marriage – man and a woman, not related, not already married – should be able to get married.
My opinion is that the definition of marriage should stay exactly as it is. And need I say, but as of the present moment, the legislature agrees with me.
loading...
Who agrees with you is irrelevant (and it’s not all of the legislature who agrees with you anyway) – you’re contending that your opinion of what marriage means should be allowed to dictate whether other people who are in love can marry.
In other words, you think your opinion is more important than the opinion of the people who actually want to get married.
I’m glad my ego’s not that big.
loading...
How funny. You’re worried about someone else’s marriage cheapening your marriage.
Personally, the celebrant reading that bit out about the legal definition of marriage being between one man and one woman would cheapen mine- a politically motivated advert in every ceremony. Thanks, Howard.
We used to consider Australia’s indigenous people as ‘fauna’ in law.. Until at least the 1960s. As a country we really have to be a bit more progressive.
The funny thing is, marriage also exsists in non-christian countries. And in many countries, old men are allowed to marry very young female children. Does this also make you feel differently about your marriage?
You don’t care about the feelings of those same-sex couples who long to wed, so why should they care about your marriage experience. Ultimately your marriage is the relationship between you and your husband. If gay marriage damages that, then I can’t imagine exactly what motivates your relationship. It’s really weird.
loading...
No-one’s asking you to get married to someone of the same gender as yourself.
So why do you think your opinion should stop other people who want to get married from getting married?
Your opinion (and the opinion of those like you who oppose same sex marriage just ‘because’) is not actually more important than the wishes of those involved.
No-one hates people who disgaree with the idea – we just see you for what you are: bigoted against same sex couples.
loading...
Sarah,
I don’t appreciate being called a bigot. Discrimination in all its forms is not illegal – and it’s not morally wrong. I don’t call gay people immoral for being homosexuals.
I don’t support marriage equality for all. The term ‘marriage equality’ trades on our commitment as a society to equality. As a society, we oppose traits such as race being taking into account when they are irrelevant. But in this case, I don’t believe same sex as being irrelevant. Discrimination is ripe in many forms – you can’t have two men or two women enter mixed doubles in tennis, or a male join the female swimming team. Human beings come in two sexes, male and female, and for marriage, that is completely relevant.
Sarah, all of us in someway oppose ‘marriage equality’ if it means the right of every person to marry anyone they choose. You can’t marry someone who is already married, someone who is your brother or sister, someone who is a minor. The right to marry already exists – you just need to fulfil the prerequisites – which gay people do not.
I oppose same sex marriage because I believe it will affect the way my marriage is defined. I’d have to find a new word for my marriage, or add the word ‘hetrosexual’ to the front of it, and I don’t believe I should have to.
And for your information, Sarah, when asked to vote about legislative change or judicial change, the 30 states in the US that have voted, the majority have voted against same sex marriage. The legislature, and it appears a majority of voters (at least in the US), supports my so-called ‘bigoted’ stance.
loading...
Here’s a suggestion – if you don’t like being called a bigot, try not being bigoted.
Just because a bunch of people in the US are also bigoted doesn’t make your views any less bigoted.
You think because you don’t agree with it, two people of the same gender shouldn’t be allowed to get married, because of their gender. I can see why being called a bigot is uncomfortable, but your view is bigoted.
As for the idea that you’d have to specify your marriage is heterosexual – what clap trap. As if anyone would suddenly start assuming you’re married to someone of the same gender – how often do you walk around referring to “my marriage” anyway, rather than “my husband” or “my wife”? I mean, seriously.
And sport is completely irrelevant to arguments about marriage – the reason two men aren’t allowed to enter mixed doubles is because it would give them an unfair advantage against mixed teams.
loading...
They shouldn’t be allowed to get married, Sarah, because they don’t fit the pre-requistes of marriage – both people being of the opposite gender.
Are you opposed to the marriage of minors? Brothers and sisters past procreating age? People already married? Because thats discrimination too. So what you are suggesting is simply to pick and choose what discrimination you think is acceptable. So ‘marriage equality’, no, just marriage equality for gay people.
loading...
Stopping minors from marrying isn’t discrimination – it’s preventing the sexual exploitation of children. No-one sane is suggesting brothers and sisters are being discriminated against by not being allowed to marry. And no-one is suggesting changing the definition of marriage from it being an exclusive contract between two people.
Your points are entirely spurious – as is your use of the words ‘marriage equality’ to refer to a situation that discriminates against people on the basis of sexual preference.
You’re displaying bigotry, and no matter how many false analogies you come up with, it’s stutill bigotry.
Gay couples might not fit YOUR prerequisites for marriage, but again, it’s just YOUR opinion – I simply can’t see why you think you have the right to force it on people who want to get married, and whose getting married has zero practical effect on you personally.
loading...
No Sarah,
Gay people do not fit the prerequisites of marriage. Full stop. End of story. You get two gay people, go up to a judge or a church and try to get married, and see how much success you have. This is not my opinion, this is the law.
loading...
And the law needs to be changed, because it’s bigoted.
loading...
You mean opposite sex Sam.
Or does the word ‘Sex’ upset you?
loading...
Well, they’re Americans, their opinions are important in formulating Australian law
haha ‘heterosexual marriage’ when you compare the discrimination of men being excluded from women’s sports events, then you assume it is already called that.
How did britney spears’ quicky wedding and annullment and that kardashian woman’s 2 month marriage make you feel about your marriage? they were also legally qualified to marry.
loading...
Sophie,
My point is that not everyone supports same-sex marriage, unlike it is made out to be.
loading...
Well two thirds of Australians do support it, so thankfully the bigoted old-fashioned view is dying out rapidly.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/new-poll-backs-samesex-marriage-20120213-1t1h4.html
loading...
Sarah,
That report interviewed only 786 people and only 61% agreed with same sex marriage. Hardly the 2/3s majority you are suggesting.
loading...
“only 61% agreed with same sex marriage. Hardly the 2/3s majority you are suggesting.”
2/3rds would be 66.6% – hardly a massive difference.
However, 61% is *much* bigger than 39%, the 5 which presumably do not agree with SSM.
loading...
Sam, do you actually understand the concept of a statistical sample?
And 61% is slightly, very slightly, under 2/3 but that’s how the newspaper article characterised it.
It’s still a big majority of Australians who believe same sex couples should be allowed to get married – so I stand by my initial point that bigotry is dying out.
loading...
Sam is right it should not be legalized. That interview only interviewed 786 people that’s not that much. Can you not see the impact that gay marriage will have in the future and the blending and blurring of gender roles? Seriously do only just care about you and your partner getting married?
loading...
I don’t have a problem with you not believing in same sex marriage – that’s your right, and I won’t deny it to you. However, I do have a problem with you not having a reason for it. I think that saying “this is my opinion, and it is based on no substantative reasoning or fact” and expecting other people to hold that opinion as valid isn’t sensible. For example, if I were to say “I believe that we should make members of parliament wear uniforms. I don’t know why I think that, but I do” would you think that was a good, clear judgement, based on the moral and practical imperatives and the facts at hand?
loading...
woohoo! Great article. Good point.
loading...
well written
loading...
This article is clever. But is it disengenuous to misrespresent other people’s views on such an important and complex issue? Here’s 7 dumb reasons why same sex marriage should be legalised:
1. Its possible to redefine words
2. Not everyone gets married in a church
3. My boy dog likes other boy dogs
4. Some straight people can’t have babies either
5. Some kids can’t be raised by their biological parents anyway
6. It is possible to change laws
7. The bible is stupid
loading...
Actually, I don’t think that the 7 reasons you’ve listed are dumb. Those are pretty good reasons for legalizing gay marriage!
loading...
Yeah tho my dog also eats his own vomit
loading...
I couldn’t have put it better myself Matt!
loading...
The bible is stupid? Yeah, bits of it are pretty daft, but it was written with the best intentions, and the world has changed.
There are some things that are still applicable, shall we start with “thou shalt not kill”?
loading...
Pretty sure I don’t need a Bible to tell me not to kill. A combination of a good upbringing and the law keeps me in a fairly straight moral line.
loading...
Hi Anon, no I don’t think the bible is stupid either. I was being facetious (however you spell it?). My point was really that this article is misleading because it misrepresents opposition to same sex marriage. Instead of engaging with the complexities of the debate it simply caricatures those opposed to same sex marriage and then rejects their (caricatured) arguments. Point 7 is a case in point. It is easy to pick holes in the bible if you refer to a bunch of different verses out of context. But this is disingenuous because it makes no attempt to read the bible the way that hundreds of millions of Christians read it. ie. despite it’s complexity (and yep it’s sometimes hard to understand) there is an essential coherence to the bible. It is not a collection of random verses which the reader is expected to simply apply directly to their own life. It would be nice if articles like these made some attempt to understand and engage with the views actually had by those who oppose them on this issue. Maybe that’s asking to much?
loading...
Could someone please change the name that comes up when you re-post the link? When i ‘Liked’ the article it said ‘Same sex marriage should be illegal’ on my facebook. I do not want to offend my friends and family unknowingly….
loading...
Times have already changed (being gay is not seen as perverse) and these ye old pirate laws need to catch up. The Catholic church no longer ‘governs’ society. There’s no law for heterosexual couples ruling that they must be married before having sex. It’s ridiculous that celebrities and idiots can marry people they’ve known for two minutes or that heterosexuals can marry not for love but for other reasons (visas, tax, etc) yet two individuals who have been in a loving relationship for 30 years can’t marry.
Great post!
http://www.lostinimagination.wordpress.com
loading...
Just put that in your relink
loading...
Haha brilliant! I cannot understand why people care whether two men or women get married! Let them be and live your own life instead of trying to make other people ashamed of themselves.
loading...
At the risk of being pariahed, and with a caveat that I am in favour of legalising same sex marriage, you could make the same article about polygamy or interspecies marriage or even marrying an inanimate object. What are the real objections to same sex marriage and do they have any legitamcy?
loading...
Here’s a stronger look at the arguments against it, and why they are wrong: http://www.mamamia.com.au/relationships/17-arguments-against-gay-marriage-and-why-theyre-bollocks/
loading...
Thanks Miss T – I hadn’t seen that article and it appeals to me more!
loading...
Mind you, I still want to marry my hat stand and I just wish people would support me in that.
loading...
I’m glad you find it funny to make fun of other people’s misfortune.
How would you like your rights stripped away? e.g. No woman is allowed to vote.
loading...
Saying you could use this argument to legitimise polygamy or interspecial marriage is plain asinine. We are talking about two consenting ADULTS, who happen to be of the same gende.
loading...
Wooh there Simone, take a chill pill! If you read carefully you will see I agree with you – the article doesn’t mention the issue of consent, and I was simply commenting on the article! But since you mention it – one could make an argument that those who oppose same sex marriage (and I repeat, I support it) would wonder why you dismiss their position that they are just talking about people of the opposite sex – and insist on your position, that the parties must be capable of consent. Too often these discussions stop being about reason and become about name calling!
loading...
If I had another option, I wouldn’t have ‘married’ my husband. I hate that my dedication to my relationship is based on archaic principles, Marriage as a whole is out-dated, it’s time to re-evaluate, remove the religion and give EVERYONE more choice.
loading...
Love your work Andrew. Keep campaigning for what is right
loading...
IS THIS A JOKE??!!????
loading...
Yes. Hence it titled 7 DUMB Reasons…………..
loading...
Phew! I had to re-read it!
Very clever…
loading...
He is being sarcastic. Hence the title “7 DUMB reasons why same sex marriage should illegal”
loading...
Love it! Well put together Andrew….i just can’t believe that in this day and age we’re even having this debate….love is love and that is it – it is ridiculous to me that anyone can put limitations on how we chose to celebrate it. Ridiculous…
loading...
I most definately do not believe homosexuals should be allowed to be married and the law as it exists has no reason to change,
Without man and women.humanity would cease to exist. To organically eliminate humanity would be if all humans were homosexual.
That is not the case for a reason.
I for one am appalled ay the attention this matter has received.
Furthermore,there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that homosexuals have more love in their hearts than heterosexuals and science must not be abused to satisfy the selfishness of some.
Why not adopt a child that needs love instead of forcing a child to NOT have a mother or NOT have a father in their lives? What rights does a child have here?
In long standing relationships,a partner must imo be legally recognised which as I understand is missing at the moment.
Homosexuality has been and will forever be part of life so why do we not leave nature alone.
Sorry to disappoint some here but this issue should not be made “trendy” and should be taken seriously.
Also.I believe non believers should not be married in a Church? Why would they do that?
loading...
Oh, I’m sorry Frank, I didn’t realise my life or my right to EQUALITY was ‘trendy’.
I’m assuming you’re a white, straight male. You must be, to have NO IDEA what it’s like to be treated as a second-class citizen.
Yes, this issue should be taken seriously as you say. It’s DISCRIMINATION in LAW. Just as it was once illegal for interracial marriages. How do you feel about that?
And as for bringing up that old chestnut of reproduction, what about couples who can’t conceive? I went to a wedding between a couple in their 80s – I’ll let them know they have to conceive now to make their marriage legitimate.
Forcing a child NOT to have a father or mother in their lives? Hm, must go speak to my neighbours next door and across the road who are single parents, and whose children never ever see their father.
To be FRANK, I’m appalled that you take time from your day to write that this issue is not worth speaking about. I dare you, for ONE day, to live your life in the shoes of a person who does not have equal access and equal rights under the law. I bet you wouldn’t. Bet you couldn’t.
Please return to your time machine and return to the 19th century.
loading...
Oceans
Thank you for your frank response.
Are you suggesting that only white straight males share an opposing view to you? Is that not a form of discrimination as I can assure you my views are shared by many from various backgrounds and certainly not limitted to straight white males.
Yes it is sad when a child does not see their fathers or mothers when parents break up but I hope you are not suggesting that will not happen with homosexual couples and that problem will be solved.
As a 47 year old Australian with Greek background growing up in a predominately Anglo environment, I can assure you that I am no stranger to discrimination.And for the record,I supported homosexuals/blacks/jews etc from taunts back then ( so how much trouble do you think I got into back then for supporting their rights ) but imo that has nothing to do with the matter at hand,being homosexuals getting married.
Clearly,we do not agree on this matter and that is our respective rights but I never said this issue is not worth speaking about as you wrote in your post.
What’s the point of mamamia then?
I will not suggest you go to a time machine or categorise you as you did me but I reserve my right to an opposing view.
Sorry,but imo your response did not assist me realse the error in my thinking.
Hope you realise all your dreams and if that includes you getting married and having children then great but I still won’t get it.
All the best.
loading...