by MIA FREEDMAN
Think very carefully before you invite me over for dinner. Because if there’s a lull in the conversation, I may say something like this: “Porn is the new sex education – doesn’t that freak you out?” It’s a rhetorical question because of course it freaks you out and if it doesn’t, you’re an ostrich.
Lately I’ve had many dinner party conversations with ostriches about porn and they’re staggeringly predictable. The women at the table are usually silent while the men are dismissive.
Me: “I worry about today’s teens. They’re exposed to so much porn before they even have sex.”
Ostrich Bloke: “Pah. Porn isn’t new. It was around when we were younger. Never did us any harm. [insert chuckle]“
Me: “But it’s on a whole other level now.”
Bloke: “Nah, boys have always watched porn. We were swapping videos in high school. It’s the same thing.”
Oh but it’s not. It’s really, really not. You see, passing around a video 25 years ago could not be more different to a teen’s experience of porn in 2012.
Here’s why:
1. NOW YOU CAN WATCH PORN AT SCHOOL
Before porn was available online, you had to to wait until your mate snuck you a VHS. Then you had to wait until the house was empty so you could use the video player. You watched that video again and again until you had to pass it to another mate. Computers changed the game. Suddenly you had access to unlimited amounts of free porn in the privacy of your bedroom. Variety. Access. Quantity. Woot. Smartphones were an even more dramatic revolution because now porn is PORTABLE. You can watch it at the bus-stop. In bed. On the train. In traffic. You can take it into the bathroom. You can watch it at recess or even during geography if you turn off the sound and keep it hidden from your teacher’s view. And that’s what many teens are doing.
2. KIDS ARE WATCHING PORN BEFORE THEY HAVE SEX
Remember losing your virginity? When you were stumbling and fumbling your way through your first sexual experience, you probably hadn’t seen much porn. If any. You had no blueprint for how you or your partner should behave. Today kids see porn before they’ve had sex or even their first kiss. The average age of first exposure to porn is 11 and most kids have seen it by age 15. And yet the average Australian teenager has their first sexual experience at 16.
Think about what that means. The first time they do it, their mental hard drive will be filled with images of pornstar sex – which is driven by money not pleasure. The men are huge. The women are hairless and often surgically altered. The sex itself is extreme to capture the attention of a jaded market. And teenagers will try to emulate what they’ve seen.
3. PORN SEX ISN’T REAL SEX
No need for vivid details but let’s agree that porn is not neccessarily indicative of what women enjoy in real life. There’s one type of sex in particular (I asked Twitter to help me with a suitable euphamism and the winner was: “pushing legislation through the lower house”) that features in almost 100% of mainstream porn. And it’s led to a generation mistakenly believing it’s up there with free shoes and Ryan Gosling on the list of Things Women Love. It’s not.
Here’s something most people don’t know: women in porn scenes are paid twice as much for anal sex (US$1500) as they are for the regular kind (US$750). Same with prostitutes. What does this tell us? That many women – including those who are paid- don’t enjoy it. And yet current porn sends the opposite message very loudly. Porn is full of anal sex.
Then there’s this: 88 per cent of scenes in best-selling porn films included physical aggression and 48 per cent of scenes included verbal aggression, according to leading porn researcher Marree Crabbe. She notes that porn gives its viewers “really unhealthy messages” about what women enjoy and how they should be treated during sex. And increasingly, those viewers are teens who haven’t even have sex yet and have no other frame of reference for what to expect or how to behave. Ms Crabbe notes that many of the young men she interviewed “expressed surprise that their partners did not do what they asked without hesitating and did not want to follow the ‘script’ of pornographic videos.”
So no, we’re not in Kansas anymore Toto. Porn has changed the way a generation thinks about sex. Yeah, but what can we do?
Well, we can’t stop it. Smartphones and smart kids have made net nannies and filters almost redundant. Some experts say porn education should be included in school sex education programs (like teachers don’t have it tough enough!). I think awareness of this new porn/sex reality is crucial. I also think parents need to have some age-appropriate conversations with our kids. Yes, it will be awkward. So. Very. Awkward. But ultimately, this kind of candour, honesty and education is crucial if we want our kids to grow up with healthy attitudes to sex both for themselves and their future partners.
In this TED Talk, Cindy Gallop argued that hardcore pornography had distorted the way a generation of young men think about sex. Take a look.
When did you first see porn? Do you think things are very different now?







Comments
204 Comments so far
If you haven’t already seen it, I think this BRILLIANT Ted Talk by Cindy Gallop complements this discussion beautifully.
When I posted it on my blog, Cindy Gallop HERSELF commented and thanked me. (I was kinda stoked.) It’s less than 5min but says it all. Check it out:
http://www.ellyklein.com/make-love-not-porn/
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Love this, thanks for sharing!
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You’re welcome.
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I have a few things to say about this. Firstly , it’s worse than you think. When you say “Ms Crabbe notes that many of the young men she interviewed “expressed surprise that their partners did not do what they asked without hesitating and did not want to follow the ‘script’ of pornographic videos.” , I think if this was entirely true, it would be awesome , but trouble is, remember when you were 13 and avidly reading articles about “how to kiss a boy”, and later “what do guys like in bed”? yeah . Girls aims to please , so much so that their own pleasure doesn’t even enter the equation . So, they watch porn to become ” good in bed” and try to live up to the guys ‘ expectations . I think if they indeed “refused ” this, it would be very healthy , but the majority is just bent on keeping their first boyfriend interested . And the boys never get to hear any complaints . That’s why we now have 30 something y old boys who feel like virgins in bed.
Wait, edit: I don’t mean “they feel like virgins” , but “you feel like the guy you’re sleeping with is a virgin when you first sleep with them”. And reeducation is pretty complicated .
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A very insightful article Mia. I hope many parents read it. To me, the fact that young people can access pornography so easily is something to be very concerned about.
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What I want to know is the woolworths ad next to your column in sunday times with the zucchini intentional or just an accident. Made us chuckle intentional or not.
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Read your article in the paper this morn.
The thing is though that young people are a lot smarter than most people give them credit for. Not long ago our high school had a policeman speak to the whole school about cyberbullying, sexting and social media.
The message does get through.
If you are underage and take a photo of yourself in the nuddie you can be arrested for creating underage porn.
If you receive a digital image of another underage person in the nuddie and then pass it on, you are guilty of distributing underage porn.
The kids know this. I am proud of some Year 8s who had received a topless photo of a classmate’s girlfriend (not from our school). They alerted the teacher (me), deleted the images, the boy’s computer was confiscated, his emails were found and he was in the principals office quicksmart with severe consequences ahead of him.
Please don’t underestimate young people. They know what is right and wrong, what is real and what is manufactured.
P.S. I know you feel accessibility is an issue but to date I have NEVER encountered a student viewing pornography on school grounds. Time wasters like online games, You-Tube, Facebook, etc are generally blocked by the IT dept at school. I would assume this blocking process applies to all porn sites too.
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I am a teacher–I very innocently entered an image search on Google that contained no words expressly associated with sex (I was just looking for some black and white images) at my school and what popped up was a whole screen worth of images of black men having sex with white women, or vice versa. I was soooooo shocked! So it can happen!
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I was totally floored when my husband found the porn my then 12 year old son was watching on the computer whilst we were out of the house. It was the kind of stuff that I didn’t see until my twenties. The only advice I can give to other parents is not to wait til 14 or 15 to start talking about sex and porn, but to start the talk as early as 10 or 11.
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Even younger than that.
11 years ago we discovered that my 8 and 10-year old boys had been watching online (in our open plan kitchen/lounge area, not hidden in a bedroom) with a mate from school, who learned about it from his older brother. How do you broach the subject with an 8-year old and 10-year old?
It was very tough to do.
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What about using the parental locks available via your internet anti-virus security system?
I have a well known brand of internet security loaded onto my laptop with a password protected system which locks out porn – and also locks out my sons searching for on line gambling, alcohol, tobacco, the occult, violence and weapons.
It’s on my laptop and the two my sons use for their school work. I would recommend you get this as it does work and has prevented my sons trying to access this sort of material (it gives a report at the end of each month of websites its blocked).
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Kathy, what system do you use? Sounds like something we made need in the future.
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It’s called Trend Micro Titanium Security – costs about $120 but worth the money.
It blocks all porn – I’ve tested it numerous times to make sure my 16 year old hasn’t cracked my password. When searching for a porn or other unsuitable site, it blocks the site and comes up with a message saying ‘someone who loves you feels this is not suitable for you’.
Of course this only works at home – I have no control over what my sons see in other people’s homes – but at least I know what is going on here.
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Isn’t it a little prudish to claim that sex in real life isn’t similar to what we see in pornography? I mean, people have oral sex, they do it in many different positions, they talk dirty, they use sex toys, many women do actually enjoy anal sex. I feel like this article is implying that intimate/’real’ sex consists of the missionary position under the blankets with the lights off and anything else is degrading to women. A lot of the amateur porn out there is similar to production-style porn for a reason; that’s how many people are doing it. I get that young people shouldn’t be expecting their first time to be like that but we can’t seriously say that couples in real life don’t have at least some of the kinds of sex represented by porn.
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The problem with porn isn’t the type of sex acts portrayed, but the emphasis on the sex act itself over anything else…
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Porn with a narrative can be pretty silly though and people just fast forward to the sex act anyway. Or is that not what you meant?
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Yeah, that’s not what I meant…see Kate’s comment below…that’s more what I was inferring…
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The problem I think lots of people, myself included, have with porn is that the sexual acts you refer to are framed in mainstream porn (read: >90% of porn) in such limited, violent, misogynistic and demeaning ways almost all of the time. In order to shift stock against consumer desensitisation, the porn industry is producing works that are increasingly exaggerated, increasingly offensive and increasingly aggressive, all the while being increasingly accessible, and I don’t think that reflects reality in any way. Of course you’re right; people engage safely, sanely and consensually in BDSM, dominant-submissive relationships and other kinks all the time. I don’t think anyone is trying to condemn that, and pornography will of course reflect that. It’s the huge lack of variety in mainstream porn that sends a dangerously destructive message to all inexperienced young people – that sex is performed one way, and one way only.
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A great article, thank you. But it adds to my fear about all the issues my daughter may face as she grows up. All we can do I guess is prepare her as best we can, and give her a good grounding in self-confidence and our values.
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Hmmm. The place where I first heard of Youporn, was on this site. Go figure…..
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Great article Mia, thanks!
As a mother to three boys I want to try to ensure my boys understand the difference between most porn and real sex. They are six and under so it is a way off for me but I firmly believe if I ever stand a chance of discussing this with them it starts now. Being honest and open and available.
I would love it if MM would explore this topic further, give suggestions to parents on how to approach these topics. What do the experts suggest?
Keep up the great work!
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While I don’t profess to be an expert I can tell you that you as parents are the experts regarding your children. If you are watching and listening and talking to your kids no “expert” will ver know your child better than you.i think the key in discussing any thing with young people is to not anticipate (and try not to judge) what or how your child thinks but to help them explore their own thoughts and attitudes. If you can achieve that then not only will you become a part of their journey of discovery, they will be more likely to come to you to work stuff out.
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I’m determined that my boys will be respectful and understanding of ‘real’ women and not confuse them with the porn actresses that they will undoubtedly see. GULP…not a conversation I’m really looking forward to though.
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Boys will pretty much always gravitate to pornography of some sort because they are visual (I realise this is a generalisation), so try to teach them the difference between ‘porn’ and ‘erotica’. I know this won’t be the most comfortable thing to discuss….
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Totally agree and I worry that when my girls are old enough to be having sex that it will be so confusing. I hope better porn is made to counter balance the clichés. Porn where the women are powerful and loving and where there are stories etc. in the meantime ill just enjoy the 15 or so years to go and hope that they’ll listen to me talking honestly to them about sex.
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Are you serious???? Better porn???
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There is some nicer porn out there with more loving narratives. x-art, for example.
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Great post, Mia. I was lucky enough to attend the taping of a recent episode of ‘Insight’ that dealt with this exact issue, and a point that was frequently raised was pornography in schools. Having recently graduated from high school, I found the sex education curriculum to be grossly inadequate, with almost all focus on biology, using protection and dense lectures on sexually-transmitted diseases. While these are all extremely important topics, I believe schools need to broaden their scope and instigate mature (or as mature as possible with teenagers), frank discussions about sexual ethics, including explicit consent, safe and sane relationships, and a discussion on pornography from a critical perspective. All of this would of course be in conjunction with at-home discussions, in the hope that a young person’s first lessons about sex don’t come from a multi-million dollar industry trying to turn a profit at any expense.
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Hear hear! Exactly!
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Very well said. I waited until my 16yo son was a captive audience in the car on the freeway (so he couldn’t jump out lol) to give him the porn doesn’t = reality speech. I said he may have already seen stuff on YouTube. He educated me that the porn equivalent of YouTube is called Redtube. Ew. So he may have already seen stuff that I have no clue even existed, but at least I got the message across.
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Beautifully and smartly said Kate!
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No matter where I turn, as a professional in the field of education, speaking and counselling, I am hearing more and more teachers, guidance officers, school nurses, youth workers and parents concerned about the sexualisation of young people. The onslaught of internet pornography is making it so hard for our young people to set boundaries and successfully navigate healthy relationships. Many schools and teachers are bewildered at the variety of things our teens are doing and at younger ages.
If the fabric of society is based on healthy and respectful relationships, hardcore porn is pulling it apart. For those who doubt the impact, sit back and wait, because I don’t think we’ve seen the full ramifications on society and our young people yet. Studies are consistently being released saying things such as “pornography causes men to view women as physical objects and fosters emotional detachment and false expectations.”
Youth Wellbeing Project offers comprehensive sexuality programs and presentations to help teens deconstruct the messages pornography is giving them; helps them to understand the difference between choice, pressure, manipulation and force; and supports schools and youth organisations in recreating a healthy picture of sexuality and relationships. More info can be found at http://www.youthwellbeingproject.com.au
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Looks really interesting!
I mentor underprivileged teenage girls, so I’ve bookmarked your site and will have a good look at it as soon as I get a chance later this week. Cheers!
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Liz, I totally agree with your comments. Anyone who thinks it’s harmless fun is an ostrich or porn addict. How do we address this ever growing problem. I have a 12 year old girl and two younger sons. I try to help set boundaries and standards but I can see it’s an uphill battle with what other children at school are allowed to have, do, watch, say etc. Not just in ‘porn’ but the next level of R MA rated films. Still porn to me…my 9 year olds son was talking openly to my son about how he watched ‘The Hangover’ and ‘Paul’ with his dad. What else will he be watching? It’s very difficult when primary school aged children have ipads, iPods, phones joined at the hip. Mine don’t…but their friends do. Such a battle.
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I’ve never watched porn in my life. Don’t intend to either – I’ve never felt a need I guess. I feel like there’s nothing I could do to stop it so yeah would just have that convo with my kids beforehand and say its pure fiction and not a replica of real life.
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I think maybe , (don’t take this the wrong way as I’m sincere) you should . I hadn’t watched porn since my teens and all I remembered from it was “meh, sex with too many close-ups to be arousing “; so I didn’t mind my partner watching it. Then one night , I was curious and watched one or two with him, and it made me ANGRY. I don’t even know exactly what made me so angry about it, the attitude , the absence of….female sexuality, the biologically dangerous scenes, the “UTI triggering ” acts (you get the idea), it seemed like a movie about ” hey, let’s give that b***h an infection , what fun!”, I don’t know …. it seemed hateful. Maybe you should watch a few to pinpoint just what you want your kids to know they should never do!
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I was thinking about the same thing recently and wrote my own post about the same subject.
I was thinking about how ignorant people used to be about sex. Like the story about John Ruskin (who was the leading English art critic of the Victorian era). He is subject to some speculation about his pre-conceptions about what a woman should look like. It seems that having grown up in an era where the female nude was represented in art sans pubic-hair, that when confronted with his new bride’s robust hairy muff, he found it impossible to consummate the marriage. Or at least the story goes.
If you think about it, the easy access to porn these days might have a similar effect. You don’t actually learn what sex is like in real life from watching porn. I can imagine some young people being very confused during their “first-time” and being confronted by the realities of what sex is really like. As always, communication and education is the key. Nothing wrong with watching porn, but don’t expect sex to be like what you see on the InterWeb!
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Unless you visit a brothel.
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Actually, no, sex with a sex worker is different to what you see in porn too…it’s not the same as sex with a loved one either, but definitely nothing like what you see in porn.
Modern pornos are just about penis in vagina, or penis in anus, or penis in mouth…sex with a sex worker is much more about conversation and massage and touch and intimacy, but in a different way to sex with a loved one.
There was a lovely comment on my post last week (http://www.mamamia.com.au/relationships/sex-workers-a-clients-perspective/) about a woman who took her 21 year old son to a brothel for his first sexual experience…I would recommend that as a much more realistic way to learn about sex than watching porn.
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Oops, we posted at the same time!
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That’s funny because JohnJames has visited several brothels, he wrote about it last week … so I’m guessing he has plenty of experience in comparing porn with brothel sex
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Ha ha, oops! and now I can’t even delete the comment to save myself the embarrassment …
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Cheap shot troll!
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…it made me laugh though!
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I always enjoy reading your posts John James. They are always articulate, intelligent and considered.
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I saw a porn video before I had sex for the first time (not the same day). I did watch what the woman did and how she behaved. I recall she wrapped her legs around the man’s back when they were doing it and I thought that looked good so when I had sex for the first time I did the same thing. So if the porn is just 2 people enjoying each other (no disrespect or aggression) I think porn can be a great tool for sex ed. But if boys and girls are watching porn where women are being degraded and appearing to enjoy it, then that is SCARY!
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Meh. Not really fussed by my kids getting their sex education from porn, sorry. Perhaps a combination of the facts that:
- “that” conversation is several years away
- we’ve been quite honest and upfront about the fact that people have sex and make themselves feel good in different ways
- our focus that hurting other people in any way is bad – cultivating empathy
- the fact that we constantly remind them that things you see on TV/the internet aren’t necessarily real
I hope they’ll be equipped to enjoy good porn, skip over the exploitative stuff, and laugh at the Goatse-style amazing things people figure out to do with their bodies.
And I’ve put my name to this because I agree with other recent comments about owning your own opinions …
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Loop, have to disagree with you on your kids getting sex education from porn. It gives an unrealistic idea of bodies for start (hairless genitals, piercings, breast implants) and non mainstream acts, for want of a better phrase (anal, threesome, group, even animals or implements). There isn’t anything wrong with sex that isn’t missionary position etc, but the vast majority doesn’t even put it in the context of a relationship.
I would think kids with little of experience with sex would find sex in real life markedly different to porn sex.
Also I would hope my sn wouldn’t think it ok to cum on someone’s face all the time, or expect anal sex at the drop of a hat.
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Hmm. Hmm. I get what you’re saying Faybian … I don’t want my kids to feel obliged to do anything they don’t want to or maintain their bodies in any way they don’t want to.
But I don’t think it’s much different to watching any sort of TV or movies … Hollywood actresses and models give us unrealistic expectations of bodies. TV shows and movies are unrealistic in the way they represent how we interact with each other – everything’s so neat and controlled, it all has that ‘movie logic’.
I would hope the boys that my kids encounter don’t expect to be able to do what they like ‘to’ them either, cumming on faces and anal sex etc, but hopefully they don’t do too much interacting with any people who expect to be able to order them around.
Wonder if it might be better to let kids watch R rated movies … puts sex in the context of a relationship, at least
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Im just going off the conversations I’ve had with my older grown up kids. They are quite bit more open to ideas my gen thought was kinky. Sometimes the girls do feel a bit of expectation there. Thats where I was coming from.
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I don’t want them to feel pressured in any way, you’re right … will have to reassess in about 5 years when all this starts becoming a fact of life rather than a hypothetical for me
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When I discussed porn with my boys I said , the difference between sex and porn is ” sex is between two people, (or 3 or 4 etc) , porn is between 2,3,4 people and a camera crew, It’s not real”.
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So true!
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As a high school teacher we hear many conversations from students and it is disturbing. The pornification of young people is beginning to create an attitude of disrespect and objectification of young women. Sadly some young women think that mimicking porn stars is normal. We do need to have these conversations.
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Are you having these conversations with them when it comes up? I’m a high school teacher too and I have to watch what I say (obviously) but I find it hard to say nothing when the subject is so important. It hasn’t yet, but I dread the day if a student goes home and says, “Mrs P was talking about porn/sex/relationships today in history…” Gulp!
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No we aren’t talking directly, just informally with some staff. I am
discussing gender issues, feminism history and any suitable texts I can find. We did have a group come and talk to all students about positive relationships. They discussed No means No and actually did raise the issue.
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My first experience of ‘porn’ was reading fanfiction online. I absolutely loved the sexual stories of my two favourite characters (also known as my ‘one true pairings’) being together in ways that were not overtly explored on the show. The first stories I ever read were about anime characters on the shows I would watch before school. In a way, this was a brilliant introduction to the world of sexual encounters as most of the fanfiction I read was about two people in a loving relationship. I’m not sure about every fandom, but the ones that I have been involved in explore the deep emotional connection the characters feel for each other, and the sex that follows felt like an expression of that love. I was captivated by it.
Having said this, I feel that written porn (including The Fifty Shades of Grey) is quite different to visual porn. At the end of the day written porn is just words, and your ability to picture it kind of depends on your level of experience. I’m still a virgin (I’m twenty-two now) so I’m not sure if it has given me unrealistic expectations about sex. I do know that it has given me ideals about the kind of relationship I want with my boyfriend before we have sex though. Ironically, I think written online porn has taught me how special sex can be when it is with someone you love and who loves you. I understand that video porn is different (although some of it does explore emotions), but I think it is important to realise that not all porn is damaging. Maybe schools need to teach that there is good porn and bad porn, as well as discuss how realistic or otherwise it is. In a way, I view this issue as similar to the issue of photoshop: people need to be educated so that they are aware that what they are looking at is not necessarily real.
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The problem is that 50 Shades of Grey is as misogynistic and anti-feminist as most video porn found online. But for some reason so many millions of women are into it and seemingly love it. That’s something worth analysing, don’t you think?
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Spot on. Could not agree more. It’s quite bizare.
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not sure how something loved by so so so many women can be classed as anti feminist. Is the entire notion of a woman enjoying being sexually submissive against feminism is it. If it is, millions of women are guilty as charged I would think.
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Not to mention the bordering on pornographic music videos that play 24/7 on MTV etc.
Nothing more than porn with music
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I don’t think the problem is just for young kids, but for anybody. ‘In the old days’ if you wanted porn it wasn’t instant- you at least had to find your hidden magazines or put on a movie. now whenever you want it, it’s there, instantly on your phone. instant gratification. there is something very dangerous about accessing images whenever you want from a device that you carry with you every where. surely this will affect our generation in a negative way.
great article Mia
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ps any one seen the episode of Freaks and Geeks where the geeks watch porn for the first time? brilliant episode.
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Haha. Yes! Love that scene. Sam and Billy progressively moving away – seats and all – while Neal’s awestruck face edges closer. Such a great show, shame it only went for one series. Seems to have been a breeding ground for all the 25-35 year old actors we see on the screens today. James Franco. Yum.
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Speaking of porn, I read on this site a week or so ago, of a site that discusses 50 Shades, but picks to bits the poor writing etc. Anyone know the website?
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I followed this one that someone posted on Mamamia
http://catep36.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/fifty-shades-of-unmitigated-crap.html
It is hilarious.
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The Guardian discusses the phenomenon of the book and doesn’t pull any punches… http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jul/06/why-women-love-fifty-shades-grey?newsfeed=true
And Helen Razer gives a more explicit- but hysterical- take here:
http://www.sponsoredlady.com/product-review-masturbation-to-fifty-shades/
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Excellent, thanks guys. x
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I followed the Helen Razer link and went to the you tube vid of Gilbert Gottfried reading 50 shades. Hilarious.
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Most of all, I worry about children and how they perceive these somewhat distorted images devoid of genuine affection before they’re old enough to process them in a healthy way……….Adults have a right to watch this stuff if they want to, or indeed need to – and it’s not my place to say they shouldn’t………….
Kids are fragile and I admit I used to worry about our kids walking through a room where explicit movie scenes were being played at a friend’s place – not every parent or adult is savvy or caring enough to consider the appropriateness of playing this material when kids are around…………..We used comedy a lot to discuss life (probably because we were writing it for radio & TV) and found that comedy helped to spin it (sex & porn) in a much healthier way. Lots of Monty Python in our house seemed to cover this subject beautifully…….I must have been a bit of a “late starter” when I first saw TV porn and my first reaction was to laugh at the ridiculous “choreography”, acting and “wocka wocka” music track…….then I thought about the typical roles for women in these “productions” – women who were stupidly submissive, grateful, & dumb………What has that told generations of men and their sons ?………………..”What women want” really hasn’t changed much over the years. All women really want from men is KINDNESS.
Yes, things are very different now and I can only hope that this current explosion of sex-oriented media has actually served to put this caricatured version of sexual activity into some sort of department in teenagers brains – the comedy department…….lol.
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You comments are hard to read, with the …… and no paragraphs.
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Hmmm. Tough one.
In the case of boys, I think it was and is almost universally true that you watched porn before you had sex.
From the perspective of boys, I think that the signals from porn and society are getting more confused as to what constitutes good sex. The themes in a piece of erotica like Fifty Shades of Grey (which admitttedly, I haven’t read) seem to line up with the trend for rougher sex in porn. The speed and reach of sales of FSOG suggest that there is also an appetite for BDSM amongst women.
I think that you want to be careful about your assumptions on anal sex. Yes, a lot of women don’t like it, but some do. I can remember one discussion with a woman who wanted anal sex. Afterwards, I asked her if anal sex felt good. She said, physically the sensation was a bit painful, but that the submissive aspect and dirtiness of anal sex totally got her off.
I personally don’t have an overwhelming desire for dominant sex, but it turns a lot of women on a great deal, which means that I’m more than happy to play along.
So you’ve got a book that has exceeded all sales records on the back of BDSM and ‘rich man transforms poor woman’s life – princess’ themes. This is mainstream literature. It therefore doesn’t surprise me that porn is becoming darker and more aggressive, because there seems to be demand for it. More accurately, a demand by women for submissive sex done the right way. As I’ve experienced a few sexual partners, I have garnered the judgement to know that this BDSM doesn’t have universal appeal to women and also, it’s not going to be a great idea to wear the black leather duds on your first sexual encounter.
Difficult path for teen boys to tread to find the middle line between the extreme, abusive porn and the bdsm sex that does seem to hold appeal to a lot of women. I’m convinced that messages on sex are more confusing know than ever, be they porn or erotica and I have absolutely no idea how teenagers are putting all these mixed messages into practice.
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The BDSM aspects in FSOG were anything but it was more about him being a Sadist than genuine BDSM.
I think what women got off on most in FSOG is the rich man sweeps the “innocent” “virgin” off her feet, takes her virginity and then proceeds to give her orgasm after orgasm, sometimes by even barely touching her.
I agree with you in regards to anal sex. A lot of women enjoy it but very few are brave enough to admit it, which I find a bit sad to be honest. The best thing I’ve done over the past 6 months is admit to myself and my partner, what I genuinely like sexually and then not be ashamed of my desires. It’s opened up a whole new world to me and I’m not shy about admitting my likes and dislikes to anyone, I have nothing to ashamed of, I like what I like, I just wish more people were honest with themselves about what turns them off AND on
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Yeah, I’ve never understood the shame. Is it a kind of catholic guilt thing or is it that rough sex (or whatever your kink is) doesn’t reconcile itself well with feminist ideals?
I’ll say this, the girls that I’ve been with who had a submissive streak in the bedroom didn’t carry it across to the rest of the relationship at all. Sure, use me every which way in the bedroom that you like, but if I disagree with your choice of TV program or restaurant; it’s battle royale. Therefore, in my opinion, no clash with feminist ideals and no cause for shame.
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Exactly!! What you desire to be in the bedroom, at your most (usually) vulnerable and intimate, isn’t what you desire in the other aspects of your life.
Oh and the original reply to your comment was me btw
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You make a good point Trog. It is confusing for boys/men trying to work out what women/girls actually like when they have so much mixed signals.
However I believe one of the reasons porn is becoming darker and more aggressive is that the porn industry is trying to “outdo” itself. 100 years ago it was outrageous to show a knee or ankle, 50 years ago it was outrageous to show falletio, 10 years ago it was outrageous to show anal sex. The porn industry has to “push the boundaries” so to speak so consumers will buy their new products. If they didn’t present new situations, no matter how horrifying they are, consumers would just keep the porn they got a few years ago.
I guess my point is that if you already owned the type of porn the industry was currently making why would you buy any new porn?
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I think that you’re on to something there. Bigger and better.
I personally, have always understood the theatricality of porn. The monster penii, the women moaning with pleasure while giving head. The almost complete lack of foreplay. The woman begging for a body part to be come all over. It’s highly formulaic & ordered.
Who gets off that hard giving oral sex? Even as a virgin, I kind of knew that real sex wasn’t supposed to pan out that way. All my fumblings prior to cherry pop were ALL foreplay.
I hold faith that the majority of boys still recognise that porn is showbiz and perhaps the extreme stuff will bring boys to a sharper understanding that porn is unrealistic, rather than creating rather sexually advanced expectations.
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Exactly!
A male friend of mine told me he had to stop watching porn altogether because he was becoming desensitised to normal sex- not a good thing if you’re hoping to have sex with anyone other than yourself
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Well, I’ll admit that I’m no debutante when it comes to porn and de-sensitisation has never been an issue for me.
The touch, smell and thrill of the real thing are unbeatable.
The thought that this woman who you’re into is into you and is prepared to bed you is not going to be replaced by a monitor and some tissues. The porn substitute is just to get you by and help you to postpone overwhelming horniness.
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If only all male consumers of porn were as well adjusted as you Trog. In my experience, porn became the replacement and real sex was too much effort for my partner. He knew his own sweet spot. He didn’t need to make any foreplay effort and he was tired at night so he served himself in the afternoon before I got home from work. I only discovered this pattern by accident one day when I came home unexpectedly and caught him. That’s when it all added up for me. So I guess my point is that some men use it to get by in between and some men prefer the convenience and effortlessness of porn in place of real intimacy. It turned out to be going on for years and caused permanent damage to our relationship. We haven’t been intimate for many years now. Sad but true
ps…I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he is not a great communicator either.
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What a difficult situation for you, thank you for sharing your story. It provides an example of how porn can damage relationships. Thiscan be a very un-PC thing to say, and induce accusations of being a prude, but I think it happens.
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It’s also a matter of curiosity. A ton of people might buy, download etc. an ‘extreme’ porn video, but you can bet a lot of those people just want to have a look and see what it’s about. Not all of them are going to be using it to get off, or be repeat watcher/buyers, and even those that are don’t necessarily want to do those things in real life.
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Great post, thanks! It’s something we need to talk more openly about. And not get confused about porn (which has existed since the ancient Greeks) versus accessibility (which is new). If porn can’t be stopped (it can’t) and if the internets have made it readily available (it has) then maybe what we need is better porn. Something the Eros people in the ACT have been working on, if I recall, trying to get different classifications for the variety that’s out there.
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My son is 12, in year 7, and has only just started being aware of porn- thanks to kids at school with iPhones, grrr. He is way off having sex himself (not even really interested in it yet) but thank God he spoke to me about what he had seen and we’ve started the dialogue…I think it’s good to get in their ear at this age, while they still listen to you and aren’t so befuddled by hormones. I’ve told him that porn isn’t like “real” sex, that he shouldn’t expect it to be, that it can often be degrading to women, and that his first experiences of sex will hopefully be VERY different to what he’s seen online. He nodded, asked a few questions, made a few comments, then went back to playing with the hermit crab he had just found (we had this conversation on Cable Beach!)
Sadly, I think that even with all the filters in the world you’re never going to be able to stop your kids seeing porn- my son saw his first on a school excursion, for God’s sake. What you can do though is prepare them (boys AND girls), encourage them to think about what they’re seeing (that it’s set up, that it’s acted, not ‘real’, that it’s made for a paying audience of mainly men, and how that might affect what is filmed) and be 100% open to talking about it at all times in a non-judgemental way (sexual curiosity is totally normal- I’d hate to make him feel dirty or bad about being interested in porn, I just want to try and ensure he can filter what he sees it, not accept it unthinkingly as the norm and what he should be aiming for). Articles like this help too- I think I’ll probably show it to him to reinforce my points, show him it’s not just his mum who thinks that way.
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I think t is great that you have started non judgemenal dialogue with your son about this. My daughters are 6 and 3 and I hope to do the same with them down the track.
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Thanks Ladybug
My 10 yo daughter was sitting nearby as we had the discussion, with her back to us reading a book- but I didn’t see her turn a page and normally she’s a fast reader! I’m sure she was listening in. I hope she was- she is far more aware of boys than my son is of girls, so the dialogue needs to be started there early too! Good luck when it’s your turn. xx
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The first time I saw porn was with a few girlfriends when we were roughly 12 or 13. We were watching Foxtel (galaxy in those days) & apparently my parents were subscribers to the Nightmoves channel that only screens after 11pm. It was pin protected but it didn’t take us long to crack it – the default 1234 worked a charm. Suddenly we were inundated with a vision of an outdoor gang bang, & the first thing my friends & I noticed was the woman looked in pain. We switched off after a few mins but I remember that image so vivid even 15 years later, & as a teenager thinking about having sex, it sort of put me off thinking about it.
Great article Mia, you are my role model throughout motherhood xx
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Good timing as I sit here watching video hits thinking WOW these film clips are like soft porn with people dancing in barely anything and rubbing up against each other. I remember watching video hits from the age 5, I’m not sure I’ll be letting my now 7month old watch it in a few years time.
Also while we are on the subject of porn… When did it become the norm for Men/Husbands o watch porn so often and for them to think its ok!? (the latest debate in our household)
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What’s the problem with men (whether they are husbands or not, which is really irrelevant) watching porn on a regular basis?
I’ve never understood women who have a problem with this? It’s no different to the thousands upon thousands of women who are currently reading Fifty Shades of Grey and then jumping on their husbands. Who cares where you get your appetite as long as you eat at home?
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Totally agree unvanilla (cute name
) I have no problem with my partner watching porn especially since I read 50 shades of Grey and read other fiction like literotica. As long as it’s in private (read: no young’ns) doesn’t bother me at all.
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Thank you! It’s part of my (erotic) blog name
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If porn becomes the replacement for men with intimacy problems, viewing any porn is a BIG problem!
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Then that’s an issue within the relationship.
Porn isn’t the cause… Merely an outlet
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Oh Mia, I sooooo agree with you on this one. One bit of comfort to me is that amateur porn is one of the fastest growing genres and one of the most popular these days. Real people. Having natural, sometimes even loving sex. But the majority out there is still…. well you know, not great. It is a scary thought for me as a mum to a young boy. When he reaches the age where he is having sex I hope we will be in a place in our relationship as parent and child where I can broach the subject honestly and openly with him. But I’m not kidding myself, the majority of teenage boys are hard to speak to about anything… let alone sex. But I’m hanging on to the hope as long as I can! lol. I would hate for him to grow up thinking mainstream porn sex is the norm. The majority of sex has no consideration for the females wants, needs and actual preferences. There’s no discussion about what they each enjoy, usually just aggressive, demeaning f$%#ing. It paints both sexes in a pretty unflattering light if you ask me. Soulless.
I first saw porn when I was 15 and my friend and I borrowed a vhs tape from one of the boys at school. It was pretty average from memory, big hair and tits, women screaming and being called “bitch” and told to “suck it”. Lots of women, one man. You know, the usual vanilla porn. Nowadays the kids have access to billions of sites at the touch of a button, so yes, it’s a very different situation. They used to be able to access it young before, but the sheer volume and type that was available was very different. We live in a society filled to the brim with raunch culture and continually more altered, unnatural images of the human form and sex. The more natural, amateur porn out there the better in my opinion. We need something to show society that’s more human and connected. Where the people involved might even LIKE each other! And treat each other with respect! What novel concepts!
I believe sex education needs to drastically improve too. Perhaps integrating ethical sexual relations into the mix. And how female orgasm works too. Not just the anatomy, male orgasm, procreation and contraception. I think it would be a step forward for women if we valued and recognised the female orgasm as much as the male’s in sex ed. Ok, rant over
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Great comment Maz – I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I think it’s really useful to see ‘real’ porn.
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A hundred thousand times yes to this comment. You totally hit the nail on the head.
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Thanks guys. It’s great to know there are like-minded people out there who get the issues at stake here. Porn isn’t all bad, sex isn’t something to be ashamed of or hidden. It’s a natural part of life to be celebrated and experienced. But in the world we live in, the messages out there are largely quite warped versions of what is an intimate, natural act. There needs to be more open discussion about this topic if things are going to change. Good on you Mia for getting a conversation started
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I think we should all boycott orgasms when it involves penis in vagina activity. It’s a freakin’ fraud by nature.
A few moments of pleasure for years and years of hard work raising a child or children.
…and society is in on the fraud, saying it’s the most rewarding thing a person could do because you get the love of your children. It’s not love, it’s sucking up so they get feed, watered and clothed for free.
…and you know the moment they get their first job, they’re planning on moving out…can’t get out of home quick enough. Leaving you alone and only visit out of feelings of obligation or get their laundry done or to check if you’ve kicked the bucket, which means they can collect their inheritance.
You know I speak the truth.
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Trololololol! Ian, that’s just sad. I’m sorry you feel that way. Bad day?
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This is sadly, and frighteningly too true. Bringing up children today is easier in some ways (nappies, washing machines, available info etc) & so much harder in others. Now porn is yet another speed bump to navigate, but I fear if you get this one wrong, the consequences can be very far reaching. Well written Mia & thanks for highlighting it
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Wonderful article Mia.
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I’d like to be an ostrich, my kids are teens and pre-teens. I will have that conversation with them though – I have to have it, even though my boys have already googled up a few things that were really disturbing before I put the Net Nanny in at home. It’s just really upsetting what is out there and with such easy access, makes you wonder how these teenagers are going to emerge into adults re their thoughts and feelings on sex and how it ‘should’ be done’.
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