Dating.
by DAVID TANG
How is it that in this day and age of post feminism, so many women are still reluctant to be the ones to ask a guy out? For years women have fought for the right to vote, equal pay and the chance to compete in the Ultimate Fighting Championships, but ancient attitudes like this seek to undo much of that progress.
I’ve heard all the excuses, “I want a guy who’s confident”, “if he REALLY likes me then he’ll ask ME out”, “I don’t want to seem desperate”. Hearing things like this makes me want to stab myself. In the thigh. With a spoon.
Come on, really? Let’s do a little myth busting, shall we?
“I want a guy who’s confident.”
Oh yeah? Well I want a unicorn that shoots rainbows out of its arse. But here in the real world we don’t always get what we want. For one second, picture this guy at the party: he looks like George Clooney, is really fun to talk to, is a European prince, has a giant shlong but it just so happens that he’s also a little shy.
This guy who you’ve spent your whole life searching for is right in front of you but you’re not going to ask him out.
Because you like guys who are confident.
Well, I hope you also like cats…
“If he REALLY likes me then he’ll ask me out.”
That’s like saying, ‘if I work late every night, my boss is bound to notice… right?’
Uhh… no. Dates are like promotions, you’re not (usually) going to get one unless you ask.
Also, what’s the worst that could happen? You’re wasting your time batting your eyelashes and flipping your hair at that guy on the train. Men are hopeless at taking hints, you’re better off clubbing him on the head and dragging him back to the cave.
“I don’t want to seem desperate.”
It’s actually quite the opposite. Men LOVE IT when a woman asks them out. We know how hard it is; the nerves, the fear of rejection… that’s why we’re so appreciative when a woman makes the first move.
It’s awesome that you’re an “Independent Women”, but even Beyonce had to ask guys out every once in a while. Ok maybe not Beyonce, but let’s be honest – we can’t all be Beyonce, can we?
Now get out there you crazy broads!
Every Monday, David Tang dispenses nuggets of wisdom on the humorous dating blog Manipudating. Find him on Facebook here.
Have you ever asked a guy out? If not, what was stopping you?
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Comments
108 Comments so far
I am quite astonished at the double standards reflected in some of these comments, and a little disturbed at some of the possible implications of these attitudes.
“I don’t want to be rejected”. Really? You’re really using that as an excuse? Does that mean you have never rejected anyone that has approached you before? Do you have any idea of how often the average man will be rejected when he puts himself out there and asks someone out? You don’t want to suffer the unpleasantness of rejection, but do you somehow think that he does? Those of you that say you tried it and will never do it again because you were rejected, or it didn’t end well, are ignoring the fact that that is exactly what a guy is facing every single time he asks someone out.
I think there is less a fear of rejection going on here as there is a desire, no, a demand, for validation. Even if you can’t admit it to yourself, almost every guy that asks you out, whether you reject him or not, gives you a little boost to your self-esteem. He thinks you’re pretty. He thinks you’re funny. He thinks you’re sexy. He thinks you’re intelligent. He thinks you’re elegant. He thinks you have a great bum or boobs. He thinks you’re “the one”. For some indeterminable reason, he thinks you’re worthwhile. Unless he is some snaggle-toothed ogre with body odour, the mere fact that he asked you out is flattering, even if it’s only in a small way. You are in a win/win situation here because even if you refuse a date you still get that validation and accompanying boost to your self-esteem.
On the other hand, he may be playing the numbers game and hoping that you won’t be the tenth rejection this year, this month, this week, or tonight. Now, before you say that a guy that’s playing the numbers is a “player”, consider that while that may be the case, it is also just as likely that he is not after any old wombat that eats, roots and leaves but is looking for someone that will give him some validation, maybe for the rest of his life. He might be looking for someone that thinks he is handsome. He might be looking for someone that thinks he is funny. He might be looking for someone that thinks he is sexy. He might be looking for someone that thinks he is intelligent. He might be looking for someone that thinks he is stylish. He might be looking for someone that admires his bum or pec’s. He might be looking for “the one”. For whatever reason, he is looking for someone that thinks he is worthwhile. Just like you are. Unlike you, however, he is in a win/lose situation because he either gets a date or gets… wait for it… REJECTED. And just like you, even if he can’t admit it to himself, this has a negative effect on his confidence and self-esteem.
Isn’t feminism supposed to be about equality? You risk nothing while he takes all the risks, that’s not equal. You’re just reinforcing gender stereotypes that men are the hunters and women are the prey. Do you like being preyed upon by predators? Hey, if you do like that, then that’s fine because, as another poster here said: “different strokes for different folks”. But you do you realise that, in some cases, you are CREATING those predators, right?
Take internet dating, for example. I have been using internet dating sites for a while now and I have noticed a trend in many women’s profiles. It appears increasingly common for women to add comments along the lines of “I get a lot of emails so if I’m not interested I won’t reply. Please put more effort into your emails, I can smell copy pasta from miles away. If I don’t reply to you, don’t keep sending me emails and/or call me a bitch.” On the one hand that is fair enough, especially when one considers the volume of contacts women tend to get. On the other hand, is it any wonder that some (or, apparently, many) men send copy/paste emails to every woman in their state when most of them go unread and even when they are read they are ignored without even a profile view? If you are a member of a dating site, ask yourself this question the next time someone calls you a bitch for ignoring them – “how many times have his emails gone unread and how many times has he been ignored by women that didn’t even bother to look at his profile before he finally snapped and made me the target of his frustration?” I am by no means trying to justify this behaviour (in fact, I have received more than one abusive email from women for daring to contact them without meeting an unspecified requirement, so the abuse goes in both directions), I am merely trying to make the point that when women don’t make the effort and leave it all up to the men, it’s the men who suffer the repeated humiliation of rejection, and that rejection adds up until it creates the very thing women hate most in men. Why should they show you respect when you show them none?
Every single time a guy is rejected he is put into the position where he has to ask someone else out, but practice makes perfect, right? Maybe. Or maybe this leads to a guy getting into a relationship with a girl for no other reason than that she said “yes” when all the rest said “no”. And this goes for relationships that last a single night as well as those that last a lifetime. How many of those “players” are really “players” and how many of them are “practicing” so that when they approach “the one” they will not be rejected? That confidence that so many of you seem to be after? It doesn’t come from rejection. I wonder, just how many men get married out of a fear of rejection, from a lack of confidence in themselves and a feeling that if they don’t marry this one they will never get married? How many affairs or divorces are the end result of settling for the first person to say “yes” after dozens of people that said “no”? How many women said “no” to that guy down the street before he gave up in favour of four-legged company? Ultimately, who is the biggest loser? The man that is too shy to ask the woman of his dreams out on a date? Or the woman that marries the man who is settling for her?
And, please, nowhere here do I mean “you”, in the personal sense. I mean that, in the societal sense, women who refuse to ask men out on dates are helping to create the kinds of men that they usually (and rightfully) claim to hate – mysogynists, man-whores, and rootrats that slink away before sunrise never to call again and leave you with a foetid, or foetal, souvenir. In a very real sense, you are helping to maintain the “patriarchy” that feminism supposedly wants to do away with. Even if you don’t identify yourself with “the F-word”, and I know many women don’t, don’t you think life would be better for everyone if there was more equality in dating?
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If I didn’t ask guys out I’d never get a date!
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I’ve done the asking twice and it’s resulted in rejection … Defs shakened my confidence
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Their loss Leeshie
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Ahh just saw this comment now… Thanks Jam ! xx
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I’ve asked once… 15 years later and 2 kids. So glad that I did.
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Yep. Sure have and now we are ecstatically happily married :0)
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think most guys will ask u out if they like u. shy guys are even capable of doing it once they get the right signals. my partner was a shy one who asked me out as i let him see i was keen. mayb i’m old fashioned but i like being pursued so i can b sure he is keen. dont want a guy with no balls.
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I’m TERRIBLE at knowing if guys like me or not. Take a guy who I work with that I think kinda sorta likes me – invites to his birthday drinks/another random party (only invited a couple of females), “likes” everything I do on facebook, comments all the time, etc. But I wouldn’t personally ask him out because what if I’m reading things the wrong way?
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It’s a horrid feeling and but you will never know if you don’t ask! You might be embarrassed, but you will get over it
There are definitely worse things in life than someone knowing that you want to do rude things with them!
Take me, for example, I told my crush that I’d been infatuated with him for the last year. It was fine, y’know, except for that part where I was terribly drunk at the time and had forced him into my bedroom and confessed my undying love while he was sitting in direct eye-sight of a dirty pair of my knickers. That was ace.
So embarrassed the next day….and actually to this day I am embarrassed. But we’re still friends!
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Channelling my inner Zoe Foster here, but I would say to play it cool and don’t jump at every opportunity that he asks you out. If you occasionally turn him down, and he keeps asking, I think that’s a good sign that he’s keen. Perhaps he’s in the same boat as you – he thinks you like him and is just testing the waters a little.
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Way back in March1987 I asked my husband out never had asked a guy out before , have been together ever since love him always will
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If i had waited for my current partner of almost 15 years to ask me out, I’d still be waiting. He is a very shy person, I knew he liked me, but he just couldn’t bring himself to the next step in case I turned him down. I got sick of waiting and asked him, the relief on his face was palpable
I also asked him to marry me, another one of those things he was too shy to do, we’ll probably get married in another 15 or so years time, we both like being engaged.
So go for it, rejection hurts but it doesn’t kill you.
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Snap! I did the asking out and proposing too; been together 22 years.
Before that I thought nothing of asking a guy out, if he says no, you move on. Like anything in life, if you don’t try, you get nowhere.
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This is terrible! Why am I laughing so much?!
Ok, firstly, we’re not living in a wold of “post feminism” feminism is still quite big, actually!
Also, “I want a guy who’s confident… Because am not particularly confident” is how the sentence goes for me. I bat my eye lids and flip my hair because when I try to speak to men I do end up sounding like a Neanderthal, right before hyperventilating and fainting!
And also, I disagree with your last point, the men I know feel intimidated when women ask them out, and if a woman does ask them out and they’re not interested they feel pressured to say “yes” because she’s clearly put herself out there and they feel a bit shite about rejecting her (maybe my hetro male friends are wusses?).
Funny article butttt I’m not buying, I’ll stick eyelid batting and hair flicking…
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i just sent a message to my neice to read this site, she is always moaning about there is no body to ask her out. When i told her i asked my husband out 45 years ago she tells me that that was a one of and i was just lucky.
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Noooo. I was the one that made the first move, asking out my (now) husband. I didn’t know then that he would forever be lazy and take me for granted. I had never believed in ‘playing games’ or ‘playing had to get’, but I wish that I had made him work for it!
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So I just HAD to comment on this. I highly recommend asking a guy out. My trick is to ask him out early, not after you’ve been obsessing about him for months. Also ask him for something low key like coffee. Then wait and let him do a bit of work. If he doesn’t, well that’s that. But at least then you can move on!
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Oh, Hannah, Very good advice! I was definitely the first mover, then 18 months later, I proposed, on bended knee! Best thing ever, most wonderful man in the world, and that was 9 years ago!! I dont see any difference between taking charge elsewhere in my life, which I have done for years, and sensitively asking a man out, if I was attracted to him!
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Ask him out? I asked him to marry me! Now nine years since engagement, 7.5 years since wedding and two children aged 5 and 3.
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If I’m keen on a guy then I’ll make it obvious without actually telling him.
I could never ever put myself at risk of being rejected.
Perhaps I wouldn’t be single still if I had the guts to ask a guy out but considering I always throw in the bait hoping for a bite is enough indication that my situation probably wouldn’t be any different.
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Just do it! So glad I did. A couple of times! We didn’t end up in a relationship, but have remained close friends for over 10 yrs.
Be confident and not cocky, no need to flirt, to me that’s cheap. Self confidence and being straight forward is well worth it
Oh and third one was a charm, still together 7 yrs later.
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Maybe actions speak louder than words. I didn’t exactly ask him out, but I did travel halfway across the world to see him. We’re still together – plus cat – more than a decade later,
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One reason why I won’t ask guys out is that my male friends show immediate disinterest in women who ask them out or show any interest in them. And, these are otherwise great guys. Yep, show interest and these guys reject women; women they would otherwise be interested in. The attitude seems to be that if a woman shows interest then she can’t be that great. Conversely, if a woman treats them really quite terribly then these guys think they are valuable and will do a lot to be with them. When this contradiction is pointed out, my mates dredge up all sorts of stupid excuses to justify it but the fact is that what they say (“women should ask blokes out!) is not reflected in their behaviour. Dear friends these guys but total doofuses in the relationship department.
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I don’t think guys are that dumb that they can’t figure out if a girl is interested. If they truly miss blatant flirting then doesn’t that mean they are poor communicators anyway and they’re never going to be on the same wavelength as you?
In my experience if I like them, I flirt, they get the hint and ask me out. I’m presuming because they know I’m interested so I’m not going to say no.
Also don’t knock cats. I’m single with a cat and I’m quite happy. Nothing wrong with being single, way better than being with someone who isn’t right, or just wanting to be in a relationship for the sake of it.
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My beautiful cat as seen me through single years, dating years and now married years. Cats are simply a stereotype that you should just ignore.
My husband when we first dated told me he ‘hated’ cats. As I write this my (really his now!) cat is curled up on his chest getting his ears scratched while watching a movie!
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I wouldn’t mind being a cat lady! I often joke that I’ll end up with 27 cats in the near future!
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In my experience guys do not like being asked out including the shy ones, total horror at being asked was the general reaction. You could not pay me to ask a guy out now!
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I asked my now husband out. I waited for him to do it and he didn’t, so i took matters into my own hands. Turns out he had noticed me for ages and wanted something to happen but was just too shy. Now nearly 10 years later and with a baby on the way and boy am I glad I bit the bullet and asked him!
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Feels like you are talking about me
Exactly the same thing happened and have been together for 10.5 years and married for 9.5 with a bub on the way. He was just too shy to ask me out… Good luck with bubs x
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Thanks, good luck with your bub also!!
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Its kinda strange reading this….I’m now in my mid 30s and married but pretty much throughout my dating life, including high school, I was always the pursuer. I recall my first decent pash was with a guy a couple of years older than me and I definely was the one going for him!
. I find it interesting that the comments below talk about being the “aggressor” in these situations. I did not pursue aggressively in any way. If I was interested I simply let them know. Ok, yes, I had a few knock backs – but who cares. Bruises your ego slightly and a little embarrassing but no one has yet died of embarrassment! But for the most part, many did end up in mini/major relationships.
And yes, I did marry one of my ‘conquests’
So pull your big girl pants on and ask a guy out. He might say no, but, hold your breath, he might say yes!
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For all the women who say they wont go out with shy guys, I will give you some reasons why you should.
- They might not be the loudest guy in the packed room, but at home and with family and friends you won’t notice.
- They won’t be leering at every girl at the party
- And most importantly, compared to the extrovert you don’t need your BS meter turned to high every time they speak
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Craig, my hubby is one of those shy ones that I “pursued”….I knew he was a good one and I was right. He’s a bloody keeper. Funny, kind, smart (and little geeky) great in the sack and a fabulous father. I’m a 100% behind the shy boy
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So true!
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So true Craig. I picked great guys in my 20s – decent, funny, gorgeous -then disastrous ones in my 30s. Somewhere along the line I started equating charismatic with worthy, sexy and desirable, all the things they turned out not to be. Finally, after one lying psychologically complicated unit too many, I met someone who is shy, quiet and completely adorable. It has taken years to peel back the layers and each one is more interesting,funny, smart and steadfast than the last. We are now engaged and all I can say to the single women out there is: if you like charismatic types, and it keeps not working out, change your type. It is perhaps unfair, but I am now deeply suspicious of people who charm and impress in the first instance. Quieter, still waters do, it turns out, run deeper.
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Can’t believe so many women are against this idea! I asked my husband out (he says I got him drunk and seduced him, but I needed a lot more alcohol that night than he did!).
It wasnt that he wasnt interested, he just simply didn’t think I would ever go for a guy like him and subtle hints were proving very very useless. Once I asked him out I never needed to make move again though, he just needed an indication!
If I hadn’t given it a go, I would have missed out on the best thing in my life! He is a very confident, outgoing man, just needed a push from me to get things started
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Times are changing ladies and you will be the ones who change it.
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I asked a man out 13 years ago. We are now married, 2 kids etc. the worst that can happen is that he’ll say no! Oh, and I was rejected a few times before that too, not by him obviously. It really didn’t kill me.
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I asked my partner out 8 years ago, still going strong!
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I think overwhelmingly people want to post stories of success and celebrate beating the odds. “I asked him out and now we are married” type of stories.
However, I think these situations are FAR from the norm and they are just that, beating the odds.
In real life, I think I know ONE couple that have had a successful relationship whereby she asked him out and was the aggressor in the beginning.
Every other relationship I know that has lasted the distance, the guy had to do some sort of pursuing/courting in the beginning.
Personally, unless you know in your heart of hearts he is going to say yes and that he is in fact super shy, I strongly advise women to NOT ask guys out.
“If he REALLY likes me then he’ll ask me out” IS very true in most cases.
Men are very simple, uncomplicated creatures. If they like you, they text frequently. if they like you, they call a lot. If they like you, they literally tell you, “i like you” and do their utmost to spend time around you.
David, I really think that this article is doing women a disservice.
I’m on team Zoe Foster on this one. Do not ask out a man, unless under very extraordinary circumstances.
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“doing women a disservice”? Really? I think that is a little harsh. I’m real life I assure you and while I’m now married and happily out of the dating game, I had no problems putting myself out there when I was keen on someone. I had knock backs but mostly I had some great relationships – including my husband! Just because you know what you want doesn’t make you “aggressive”. I hope my daughter is comfortable enough in her own skin to pursue what she wants too.
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David ??????
How did you get away with using a term like “broads” ?
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I’m a broad, a chick, a girl, a lady, a woman, a sheila, blah bah blah. I’m proud to be all of them
A title is just what you make of it.
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Something like that would usually have the broads, I mean hoards out complaining its a degrading description of our sex. Must be the new commenting policy at work?
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Ok, so I am all good with asking a guy out – but if all goes well, should it be the person who was asked out who sets the next date, or the original person who did the asking?? In my case should it be the guy who sets the next adventure?
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Many of these comments confirm what I’ve always suspected: I’m missing the Feminine Wiles gene. It makes my head hurt to realise how many Rules I broke when I asked out (and later proposed to) my now husband. *sigh* Why do humans make everything so complicated?
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This got me thinking about why women don’t propse to men that often? I like the idea of the man taking the risk to pursue me! Isn’t this just how it works in the animal kingdom? I don’t have the confidence either to ask a guy out romantically – so i respect anyone guy or girl who takes that leap of faith.
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I do like cats.
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I’m going to have to blog about this now! Gosh darn it!
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I asked my boyfriend out! Almost 7 years ago. Best thing I ever did because the guys who asked ME out were weirdos.
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ZOE FOSTER TOLD ME NOT TO.
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I was just writing that!!
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LOL! I finished reading Textbook Romance last week and that was one of the things that will be forever seared into my memory! Zoe’s awesome.
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Ditto!
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Ditto!!
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haha, I read the title and thought ‘are you mad? Zoe said not to’ sheesh, I do hope she comments on this.
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That book was my bible when a friend of 4 years started paying me a bit of interest. We’ve now been together for over 2 years and he has since told me that I was the only girl he ever dated that played it cool and he loved it
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The moment you mention the word bible I am scared for the men you have dated. Relationships are not to be classified and studied. Please treat each with sensitivity and individuality just like they deserve.
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That’s great!
That book is definitely one I’ll be looking at over the years for relationship advice and tips!
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In my single life I had two separate occasions where I was completely infatuated with 2 guys with whom I was starting friendships with. After a few months (yes MONTHS) of obsessing, I eventually told them how I felt – do I get extra points that BOTH times were face-to-face??? – only to receive the kiss of death twice (“I really like you … As a friend”). However, many years later I am still really proud of myself for telling them because at least I know for sure that they were not “missed opportunities”.
With my current partner of 5+ years it’s unclear who made the first move! You be the judge: We met at a party and as I was leaving he gave me his number without my asking for it. The next day I texted him that he was welcome to come along to the night markets with me and my flatmates and we’ve been inseparable since then!
I guess for me, if I really like someone I’ll always go for it, consequences be damned!
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Great piece Dave- laughed out loud.
On a total sidenote- whenever I hear the term port-feminism, I always think of the saying “I’ll be a post-feminist in a post-patriarchy”. We’re a long way off being a post-patriarchy (although more and more women are #destroyingthejoint which is great to see) so I’m going to hold off calling myself a post-feminist (or talking about post-feminism as though feminism is done and dusted) for a bit yet.
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As a man, I don’t think it’s your place to declare a postfeminist world.
I certainly do not live in one.
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i asked my husband out we have been together 8 years, married 4 and have 2 kids
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Me too – he gave me his number but I called and asked him out. 16 years together so far and 4 kids – definitely a good decision to get over any qualms I had about making that first phone call.
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Me three. I proposed as well. Twelve years and 3 kids ago.
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I find it funny reading a lot of these comments that women are afraid to make the move in case the guy says no. Funny cause that’s probably the same thing that is stopping him from asking you out too. Crazy world we live in
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I think if you’ve shown interest by being friendly and flirting a little bit, and the situation is such that the guy has every opportunity to ask you out, he should ask you out. If he doesn’t, ‘he’s just not that into you’.
However, there are other circumstances, such as a bar, where not every guy who fancies you is going to be confident enough, or in the mood, to cross the room and chat you up. I think in these situations, there’s nothing wrong with the woman making the approach. If you do it in a casual, friendly way, you won’t look desperate.
Sometimes, I do the asking. But I’m aware of the fact that it’s probably not a good start. I’ve never had a relationship take off after I’ve done the instigating. But at least I get a bit of action.
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Can totally agree with this.
The amount of times I have heard “oh yeah i really liked you back then. I wish you had asked me out” is astounding. Really?? then why not let it be known and maybe we could have done something about it!!!
Most men are clueless to signs of flirting when honest communication would do. Sure men like to pursue but if you like the guy and he isn’t getting your way too subtle signals then just go for it.
Thanks for the honesty mr tang.
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Shy guys are cute! As someone who is socially awkward and generally an ungraceful klutz, it’s nice to find someone the same.
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I think a good strategy is to let him know you are interested so he can feel confident to ask you out. You know, reduce his fear of being rejected. Don’t listen to me, I have three cats.
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I always find it funny how women seem to think they deserve better than guys. Don’t want a shy guy? Here’s a thought, maybe that guy you like doesn’t want a girl to shy to make the first move. Think he should make an effort if he really likes you? Hey, maybe he’d like to feel like you really like him too. Don’t want to seem desperate? Maybe he doesn’t want to be rejected.
Dating really isn’t that complicated. All the ‘rules’ are rubbish.
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I think it’s a case of different strokes for different folks. I respect the author expressing his opinion which would reflect his world view and experiences.
My experiences are that the best episodes & outcomes have been with confident men who take the lead, ask me out, and are the type of man I am attracted it, a more alpha male with intelligence & style (yes they do exist, but not in abundance, unfortunately).
This includes an ex husband of over 10 years, who whilst I chose not to continue our journey together through life as I felt we’d run our course together. I have utmost respect for, cheering for him when he found love for a second time.
When I have bought into suggestions based on ideas similar to what is expressed in this article – about men not needing to take the lead – having also subscribed to the societal belief that we ‘have’ to be with someone – it’s been a complete and utter disaster!
Where we seem to role reverse, and he stays in the feminine, and whilst he may be happy there, I am not happy in the polar masculine position.
Whatever gender preferences you may have, I subscribe to the belief that to thrive you need polarity; even with same sex, there needs to be polarity (which I see in my lesbian best friend’s 10 year relationship – a truly giving, loving, incredible union!).
I have a strong personality and independent spirit, yet I have no desire to boss a man around or take the lead. I lead in my own life, and am more than happy to enjoy giving and receiving love in the more traditional ways men and women can share it with each other.
I love it when a man opens doors, waiting for me to walk through first, takes over the ordering of wine at a restaurant (consulting me within that), wants to pay for me (different to have to), and looks to protect me. And I like to nurture and support him, cooking, helping, loving etc.
That doesn’t men he can’t cook, and I become helpless. More we appreciate each other for being the energy we naturally like being. Feminine and masculine & yes in today’s world there are likely to be individual deviations in some aspects of our being (I’m happy for him to love ironing!
).
That’s just what’s right for me. I appreciate it may not be right for everyone else.
Interesting too that the author is suggesting women need to re-frame their stereotyping about men having to ask a woman out. Yet has expressed his own stereotyping, that to end up with a cat, is somehow a bad or sad thing.
I have two, and whilst I love men, love sex, I just can’t make myself be in a relationship just to be in one. That to me is the saddest outcome of all, as at what cost to your true self?
Sometimes I do wish I was less independent, less happy in my own company, and more ‘needy’ to be in a relationship….I’d make ‘society’ happier.
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Let me think about this. Um. No! David Tang – you can keep stabbing yourself in the thigh with a spoon. You don’t; sound liej the kind of man I want or want to take advice from anyway…
1. Stop making bitchy ‘single women with cat remarks’. I don’t own one or intend on getting one but its offensive to cats, womena and single poepl. Not funny.
2. You say: Dates are like promotions, you’re not (usually) going to get one unless you ask. So, what you are saying is: unless *we* (women) ask we won’t get one? Bwahahahaha. I often go on dates, have done for a good 15 years, never had to ask.
The way things start off sets the tone for the rest of the relationship. I need a man who can take the lead. A shy man is often a project – no thanks.
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oh gosh thank you for saying that… seriously, thank you! I would rather be alone (with or without a cat) rather than have “a project” (love that!)!!!
…although I do want a cat
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Here are my (longish) responses to your three points:
1. Even if the guy looked like Ryan Gosling, shyness would be a major turn-off for me. I think this argument’s valid (from a girl or guy), but maybe there are some exceptions.
2. I’ve seen shy guys ask girls out, so I know if a guy REALLY likes a girl he will ask her out. But I do think the same can be said for girls: if I REALLY like a guy then I’ll ask them out (once I know if they’re single/where I stand with them).
3. I don’t think asking someone out makes a girl seem desperate (unless the girl literally throws herself on the guy or something). I do think it makes it harder to figure out where you stand with a guy though.
As Zoe Foster Fan and Gabbie have already said, your advice goes completely against what’s said in Textbook Romance by both Zoe Foster and Hamish Blake.
I’m not saying one is right and the other is wrong, just that there are different perspectives that could both be “proven” in myriad ways. And you know what? People are the same. Some guys may geniunely want to be asked out, some may want to do the asking and the same goes for girls.
Personally I prefer to be asked out, but I know there are exceptions and I’m willing to make them at my own discretion.
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I emailed him (after stalking him to get said email address), we met for coffee the next day and two weeks later we both left our unhappy marriages in order to be together (that wasn’t fun for any one
) We are living the happily-ever-after-ending with a mortgage, a cavoodle and being able to fall asleep next to our soulmate every night. Sigh…
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Ok – my experience is that is just doesn’t work in your 40′s. I have found that when I have been the instigator, the assumption is one of sexual aggression and that I must be ‘up for it’. Look I know that seems like a huge generalisation but I think for the Gen X men I have met, they seem so caught between being confused by the rules of feminism and the social mores they were taught growing up.
I’m really, really upfront about how I operate. I like a man to ask for my number. I won’t ask a guy for his. And if he has a problem with that – I’m so not about to pursue an argument about equality. I wont apologise for liking chivalry.
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Totally Agree!!
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I think too many comments are from women, this is a touchy subject. But I like the idea of getting rid of the double standards, and I feel a tad out numbered in the comments section.
It a bit like comparing apples and oranges, but gender wise it hard sometimes to relay messages to groups in different situations. A bit like someone driving a car and the passenger wondering why the driver finds it so stressful.
But in my experiance, when people make observation about others groups, the other group may feel a bit sensitve about.
An example is men say women can read maps or women say men don’t listen. Sometimes I feel
even when someone makes a comment about a group classication that I’m in seems to be my observation sounds generally right it can still sting because it is close to home. This is my opinion, on what I generally observe.
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