I don’t have a lot of time for people who excuse their bigotry, racism or prejudice with the feeble defence “Can’t you take a joke?”. Triple J presenter and singer Brendan Maclean knows exactly what this feels like. He writes..
I’m a slashy. Singer-slash-Presenter-slash-Whatever pays the bills this week. A slashy. It’s a path that requires a certain thickness of the skin. In the music world the phrase “Water off a duck’s back” involves more of a deluge, in the realm of Twitter the rain never stops and sometimes it leaks through.
My fondest memory of criticism was at my first sold out gig. The applause was hearty and units were shifted. As the room emptied I was delighted to find a young lady had left a letter on the merchandise desk. It read:
“You are a superficial, bland performer. That was more a tired cabaret than songwriting. You wasted my money and my time, quit while you’re ahead and go into children’s entertainment.”
Well I had been working as a clown at Luna Park and besides life is, after all, a cabaret.
My friends too, know how to hurl abuse. Being chums with comedians like Rhys Nicholson and Tom Ballard has its high points but there are days we treat each other like target practice for new material. This is where intention comes in. Growing up in the Sutherland Shire I endured the gamut of insults. I am indeed ‘a gay’ and my peers made sure to remind me of it everyday – which is lucky as I might have forgotten.
So with angry punters and adolescent twats in my past, it came as a surprise when one sentence from a middle-aged woman brought me to tears.
I was working in admin, when my boss decided to send in a little help to speed things up. Mrs. Helpful and me hadn’t spoken much in the past and she, being isolated to her desk, was desperate for conversation: Where I grew up, where I performed and who I was dating. The last question inevitably leading her to ask,
“So when did you come out?” A common question; sixteen is the answer.
“Wow. That is crazy.” Oh, I guess it is a bit…
“Your dad must have been so embarrassed!”
And there it was. Out fell my chest, up came my lunch. I could feel my skin glowing red but I tried to keep a straight face as she barreled onwards.
“What does he do?” He is a sales-rep and coached football for…
“Football?! Oh god, he would have been so embarrassed in front of his mates.”
I folded my envelopes quietly, nodding as she lamented that The Shire was at least a safe place for a child to grow up and that she would not know what to do if her child was gay – it would be too stressful for her.
It sat with me and then came tumbling forth like a wardrobe full of old beige cargo pants you thought you’d never see again. She had pierced my thickened skin and tore me apart.
The following day she greeted me with a picture,
“Do you think he’s gay?” I don’t know.
“But you guys ‘know’ don’t you?” No.
“Where do you live?” Inner-west.
“I thought you’d live in Potts Point with the rest of the poofters!” She cackled.
Later that day I made a complaint to my boss. He took it seriously but I already knew her response. It’s one I’ve experienced before. Of course she was not aware she had offended me, of course she hadn’t meant to offend me and, of course, at no point in the day could she remember me being even remotely offended. After all I had said nothing – just smiled and nodded.
Our curiosity about what other people do based on their sexuality is not an open invite to declare your assumptions in an “out loud” voice. I, for example, was suddenly keen to find out what her father thought of her being a fifty-something year old being paid to do the same job as a twenty-two year old, he must be embarrassed? And you must really like getting divorced, that’s what you breeders do right? But no – I did not ask. Someone might take it personally.
So where do you draw the line on a joke? Perhaps it’s the taxi-driver quipping about “damn Asian drivers.” or a grumpy old man blaming the price of petrol on “all them Boat People.” When do we stop awkwardly laughing along because it’s the easy option, even when it comes to ourselves? Sure, some people never learn but there are some that will – if only we have it in us to stop the snowball rolling down the hill.
**For the record, no, my father isn’t embarrassed. Considering my idea of coming out to him was being arrested for being underage in a gay bar – I’d say my dad is a bit of a hero when it comes to acceptance.
When do you draw the line? When does funny stop being funny and start being offensive or when should you just stop asking questions? Got any experiences you can share?






Comments
356 Comments so far
I love the underlining of ‘for her’. Oh, what a horrible mother to live with for a gay child…if she thinks having a gay child would be stressful for her, imagine how stressful it would be for the child! How horrible of her!
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I’m late to the conversation, but I just wanted to quietly mention, that I thought it was rude to suggest she was a 50 year old doing a 22 year old’s job. That was unecessary, you don’t know anyone’s financial circumstances and why she’s working there and maybe she’s just rejoined the workforce, for example. Glad you didn’t say it out loud, as two wrongs don’t make a right. Do not agree with her out loud comments either, of course they were very wrong.
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I’m much later to the conversation.
Of course it would be rude to make that comment; that is entirely the point.
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This was such a refreshing and thoughtful piece. I can recall a few times where I have heard something racist and thought I would just ignore it. But then a surge of anger came over me. One time a man emailed a work email address complaining about the high number of international people in Aus and how it was destroying Australia and how they were virtually, not worthy of breathing. I lost it. My partner is from south-east Asia and I couldn’t resist writing him an email to let him know how rude, racist and pathetic he was. I virtually said we are all humans in the world, how dare you. such as ass
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The one that stumped me was when one of my closest friends asked “So, like, are you attracted to me?” after I came out to them. That seems to be a stereotype that still exists. I remember hearing the interview with Lindsay Lohan on Kyle and Jackie O the other week. They kept grilling her about her sexuality and my response would’ve been “My preference is that it’s not none of your business” but I found it hilarious when she shot down Jackie O with “That’s awkward” when she asked if she “had a chance”. And what was with Kyle being like “we’ve heard the rumors”…would they ask a straight person who openly dated someone of the opposite sex for three years that? No. So why, when you date someone of the same sex for 3 yrs, would they feel the need to cover their tracks by almost trivialising it? Seriously, it’s as lame as ‘galpal’.
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I was 16 too!
I did it via email though which I think is more embarrassing than being gay.
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Me too… It’s one of those things in life I will just never live down. Glad to know I’m not the only one.
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This was beautifully written. And made me ashamed of myself. I know I have put my foot in my mouth when I’ve tried to be funny before.
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Well, as someone who has been known on-occasion to say exactly the wrong thing, I feel terrible hearing this story. I do suffer foot-in-mouth sometimes, but, I do try and be sensitive to other people’s feelings but sometimes I just blurt something out without even meaning to.
However, it seems to me that the woman in this story just simply had a blatant disregard for anyone’s feelings and what’s worse, she seemed totally oblivious to it.
It seems that the old adage, “Sticks and stones….” is a load of crap. The truth is, words do hurt and I think we could all be nicer to each other in general. What is with people judging each other so quickly these days? Everybody is different, everybody has different lifestyles and situations and no-one should be able to judge us before even getting to know us personally.
And as far as the whole “gay” thing goes, who cares?! What does it matter whether you like men or women? It doesn’t define you or change you as a person. It really surprises me that people still have this awful attitude towards homosexuality. Be proud of who you are, gay or straight, white or black or yellow or pink with purple spots! It’s who you are and if people don’t like it, tell them to stick it!
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I am so very sorry for Brendan. I feel for him being treated so badly by such a cold hearted woman.
My heart goes out to him. It pisses me off that the kind people in the world get treated like crap. But the nasty ones don’t.
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What i find the most interesting is that if you had said any of those things to her then you would have been considered rude. I personally despise it when someone asks me something offensive and i swallow it then occasionally i tear them to pieces but i’m the mean one for not taking it on the the chin.
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What a silly old woman, how backward, rude and just plain uneducated she must be. I have two young children 1 and 4 and honestly want only for their happiness and will not care if they are gay or straight. You love who you love…
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I have heard you before, Brendan, on triple j. But I must say I never really took any notice. Until just now. I think I just fell in love with you. Lets be friends?
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I think some people just have no clue that what they are saying is insensitive. They lack that certain something that most people have that prevents them from opening their mouth and saying things that are rude / mean / hurtful.
I have a friend who is often upset about something insensitive someone has said to her. BUT she is guilty of doing exactly the same thing at times herself and honestly has not clue that what she has said is upsetting.
Your colleague sounds like a dill.
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O.M.G, what a horrible person.
I don’t know why people can’t just be normal about stuff – People are gay, straight, single, married, divorced, with or without kids, whatever! Whatever makes you happy, what has it got to do with anyone else? When I get to know someone, I get to know them for the person they ARE, not who they’re sleeping with or what their family is made of. So infuriating.
I had a manager who kept saying things like “oh you know what you wogs are like with your massive families” and things to that effect. First time I shrugged it off, same with second and third, but then it started getting under my skin. I didn’t get why she had to bring the “wog” thing into it, and frankly it started sounding nasty. And I’m not someone who gets easily offended. Needless to say, I’m not working there anymore.
Sorry about the rant – anywho, you’re great and everyone, be proud of who and what you are!
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As a single mum, jew and an Israeli I can understand exactly what you are saying and I find that most times it is just freaking easier to smile and nod.. They just don’t get it!
Good on ya, loved the article.
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She was a prying, unintelligent biddy.
I think you’re dad rocks.
I also think the backlash against being ‘PC’ has gone too far the other way (again). People often couch their bigotry in a joke because they think they can get away with saying it that way.
I don’t like jokes at the other person’s expense no matter what type of joke it is – that amounts to a put-down or a roasting and it’s offensive and hurtful.
I often wince at the emails of photos of ‘walmart people’ that go around – clearly a lot of those people have mental health issues and we poke fun at them… not sure if it’s to make ourselves feel superior..but whatever it is it’s not right.
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Sorry that’s meant to be signed ‘Tania’ not ‘anonymous’ – I forgot to log in
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AARRRRGGGHHH still anonymous and it’s meant to say ‘your’ not ‘you’re’…my all time most hated typo….
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Brendan I’ve only just seen this post but wanted to say that you are awesome, love your work – and you are so very, very right x
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Your Dad rocks.
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I love the article Brendan.
You have always been a fantastic writer!
xx
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loved the article-thanks.
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Thats disgusting! My heart goes out to you!
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YOWCH. There’s ha-ha gay jokes (“So THAT’S why your hair always looks so great, you do it yourself!”) and then there’s crap commentary made by people who really, really, ought to run what they were going to say through their heads a few times.
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All the anti-Muslim stuff that seems to be everywhere in the media and in politics (thanks, Coalition).
It f@#*ing hurts.
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Is the Coalition also responsible for the stuff that is coming from overseas ? Just asking.
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Yup. That helps :/
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Oh yes, that’s offensive! Not only to you, but to your Dad as well. I’m sorry that you ever had to hear that
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I’ve had an eating disorder for 10 years and although I’m in recovery and I am making positive progress, it’s still hard. I swear recovery is harder than the disordered eating itself but anyway.
One day this girl called Heather, who I cut off as a friend (I talked about it in the comments section a few weeks ago when we were discussing when it’s time to end a friendship) and I were discussing fashion and stuff and as a girl who is 5 foot nothing, I said ‘Ohhhh it’s sooooo hard buying jeans cause everytime I have to get them taken up about 9 feet and it means I can’t wear them for a week and I’d do it myself but I can’t sew properly’, and she said, very cooly (with the knowledge that I was a recovering anorexic who was now tackling a binge eating problem, ‘there are some girls in my uni course who also have a really short, stocky, chubby build with chunky thighs, and they all wear jeans like everyday and stuff so i’ll ask them where they get their jeans.’
Seriously. Who says that? I mean, this was coming from the girl who indulged me in a conversation as such:
Me: I really think I am still in love with Paul and he and Madi have broken up and he’s been calling me lately and I think we might be getting back together
Heather: Well, I f***ed him last week and really he wasn’t that good. He wanted to play special music and dim the lights and stuff it was weird.
MY BODY SHATTERED LIKE YOU SMASH A GLASS WINDOW.
Anyway after both of these times I took it upon myself to gorge myself stupid on pancakes, as in 18 pancakes after the sex conversation and a grand roadtrip of fast food drive thrus after the jeans one so yes, my actions, i’m responsible, etc but seriously, some people… why???????????
Are they emotionally stunted? Missing the ‘tact’ DNA? Undeveloped feelings? Warped senses of what is appropriate? A problem where their brain doesn’t scan through their thoughts so that they never stop themselves before they speak?
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Holy shit. That sucks very badly indeed.
Well done for taking the step to get rid of a such a toxic ‘friend’!
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I’m a bit late to this party but can I just say that Heather sounds like a total and utter BITCH.
Good idea to cut all ties, completely xx
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I too am a recovering anorexic, and I think some of the comments I get are horrendous. I put it down to people being ignorant – comments such as “but you were already so thin! Why starve!?”, “Just eat a hamburger and don’t run to the bathroom after”, “How skinny were you at your sickest? Coz I’ve always thought you were kinda always very thin, just not dying-of-starvation thin”, “you look so much healthier now” (read: fat)
… People are just idiots. It took me a long time to be able to deal with comments like those mentioned above and not self-destruct as a result of them. As for the ‘friend’ you mentioned, I think narcissism and a lack of compassion and tact are at fault. Kick those people out of your life, they are not worth any of your time.
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@michaelasmith – I don’t think people are trying to be malicious when they say things along the lines of “you look so much healthier now”. With conversations and topics that are extremely sensitive & provocative (such as anorexia), many people find themselves very uncomfortable and therefore say things like ‘you look much healthier’ as a compliment, or make the person feel better.
I completely disagree with your opinion that they are purposely saying it to be nasty.
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When did Sticks and Stones stop being relevant?
So your offended? So what!!! Be offended!!! Be an adult and grow up and deal with it!!!
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I can completely understand Brendan’s feelings. Having someone ask if a parent was embarrassed at his choice of being gay? Do you have a heart of stone, Emma? Brendan didn’t throw himself onto the floor, wailing, but it’s certainly an unusual thing, and unkind and tactless thing to say. To say something like that lacks class. It lacks grace. His shock doesn’t mean he isn’t an adult. It’s okay to feel offended sometimes, Emma, because sometimes it happens. Doesn’t mean we are not mature adults. Sure, that women is as ignorant as all get out and you, too, are ignorant. One day, I hope someone asks or tells you, when you least expect it and your guard is down, something that shocks and jolts you, and the vague refrains of embarrassment, shock and sadness seep in… and then you can deal with it and stuff cause you’re made of glass. Enjoy x
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Not nice.
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I didnt say it wasnt ok to be offended! Of course it is, things offend me, but I dont go whinging about being offended, I move on and get over it!
I was more getting to the point where we cant say anything without the fear of someone getting offended, then making a big fuss over it. “I was offended and I have rights” so what? Be offended…nothing is going to happen, your not going to wake up the next day with leprosy because you were offended!
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Loved this article!
BTW Brendan loved your comment on twitter feed about my article in mX… it made me laugh truly :p perhaps I am a douche bag for liking Two and a Half Men!
You don’t have any idea what date it was printed? Trying to track down a copy but not having much luck! The News Shop team sent me a copy with Charlie Sheen on the cover, but not the article I was after (goes to show how I can explain myself SO well over the phone!)
Hope to see more articles from you on Mamamia!
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When my grandmother was dying my mum had to go back to Vienna to say goodbye.
When she told people she was going there for that reason , people would say ” I hope you have a good holiday ! ” people just don’t listen and are tactless.
I have a long nose and some people whould just say ” your nose is big ! ” I mean seriously who says that ?
I like my nose now but when I was a kid it hurt a lot.Or people would remark how old my parents are compared to other peoples parents ( they had me later ) .
Sure, I slip up sometimes but I realise it and say sorry.
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People are stupid lets face it. I wonder how some people get through the day.What goes through their little minds ?
Society could be so advanced but it is the idiots that holds us back..
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Couldn’t have said it better….it makes me think how normal i am in society (caucasian, female, heterosexual and educated) and conjures up thoughts of humiliation and how i would hate it if the shoe was on the other foot. This piece makes me realise my ‘jokes’ aren’t jokes. It hit home, thank you.
OMM: Do we in society pass off our prejudices, racism and the like, that we would never dare say to anyone’s face or even seriously in speech, as a joke?
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Normal?
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what about sexism? this is also very offensive too. everything else in society seems to get labelled as offensive, apart from sexism because “oh no, that’s funny!”
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I second that.
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Did you perhaps know that the term Political Correctness is from the former Soviet Union! A direct translation in fact, it was used to great effect.
“The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.}
Ayn Rand (1905 – 1982)
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I once said something incredibly offensive – in print, to make matters worse. It was extremely racist, though it was not what I intended – I was oblivious to the person’s race when I wrote it. When I was alerted to how it was being interpreted I was absolutely mortified. Wanted to throw my computer out the window and never utter a squeak again because even though I did not mean to give offense, that was no excuse – people were offended and I was responsible. I could not apologise enough.
So I agree with Brendan – we need to let people know when they’re out of line, whether they intended offence or not. Since my incident I’ve given much more consideration to what I say and write before putting it out there – which probably would not have happened if no one had pointed out how horrible my words were.
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This reminded me of the coverage last week of Steve Coogan criticising the Top Gear presenters for racist comments, I don’t like everything he does but I really loved his clear explanation of the line between subversive comedy which actually has something behind it and just being racist (/sexist/homophobic) idiots. http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2011/feb/05/steve-coogan-top-gear-jeremy-clarkson-mexicans
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I hate the “I’m no racist but…” and there it is. Recently at a function where the MC made a couple of clangers and we all looked sideways at each other. Then I found out he was dumped by his radio station by some racist diatribe. His was ‘outed as a racist’ by Media Watch.
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Fantastic article, Brendan.
I hate how much my gay mates cop it from people asking stupid, stupid questions like that. FFS! I didn’t have to ‘come out’ as a straight and no one has ever asked me when ‘I knew’, why must they answer those ridiculous, insensitive questions from strangers.
I work with a lot of of people like the woman you describe and this part of your article:
“I, for example, was suddenly keen to find out what her father thought of her being a fifty-something year old being paid to do the same job as a twenty-two year old, he must be embarrassed? And you must really like getting divorced, that’s what you breeders do right? But no – I did not ask. Someone might take it personally.”
really resonated with me as I’ve actually made (not just thought) similar comments. Someone said to me a few months ago “you live with a poofter, don’t you”. I said that if you meant I lived with a gay guy, then yes. They then made comments about his perceived promiscuity and I commented that they didn’t seem to have any problems with the fact that they brag about sleeping with a different random every weekend, why was it so different that my flatmate was simply bringing boys home?!
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In my dreams I say “I know I’m a struggling musician and I work in retail to pay the bills, and you think I will have an empty life cause I won’t make any money, and I should just be a music teacher, but I’m only 21, and you complain about your life being over cause you thought you’d have achieved this and this and this by now but you’ve only done this if that and blah blah blah” but I wouldn’t say that cause it’s just effing rude and I don’t really want to say it.
Love the article, Brendan. You have a lovely singing voice as well.
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Great piece – we all must draw the line.
Sexist comments, racist comments, homophobic comments are not acceptable .. words are powerful – stand up for a smarter, more tolerant society!
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I took my 8yo to a concert not so long ago. Ok, admission, it was John Farnham, but he has Aspergers and his current obsession is JF, so we went. Anyway, I was also there with 4 girlfriends and guys started to gather to chat as the night went on. They were talking to Sam, my son and they were also getting more and more pissed and chatty with all of us.
Towards the end of the night, one of the guys approached me and said “So can I ask you a question, don’t take offence, but is your kid alright? I mean he has like an adult sized head but is really short and I guess, he looks a little retarded”.
Despite myself, I burst into tears. I mean this guy would have been mid 30′s. Sam does look a little different, but perhaps I don’t realise how different? Either way, who says that kind of stuff?
Thanks Brendan, you are tops. Unfortunately some people are just arsehats. If no one ever points this out, I guess they’ll never know.
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Oh Bern, I nearly cried reading your comment. What sort of D$%khead would seriously say that.
hugs to you and your boy. x
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That’s so awful. What a moron.
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I nearly cried reading your comment. How utterly horrible.
Newsflash- we don’t need to broadcast all of our thoughts, some things just don’t need to be said… at all… EVER!
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Holy shit. What an arsehole.
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I will just NEVER understand how some people don’t know better. Have to say though LOVE the word arsehats! Going straight into my vernacular.
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gosh some ppls r dumb! Why would they think its ok to ask such things!?!?! Ignorant.
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Oh my goodness, that is shocking. Just shocking. What an idiot.
=(
I hope lil Sam didn’t hear. And I hope that you crying gave that obnoxious prick a wake up call.
xx
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That is so so horrible! He must have had a sensitivity transplant:(
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DISGUSTING coming from an adult!
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I hate it when you get upset by something and people say “I knew that would offend you.” And then proceed to get mad at you for being mad at them. Oh who am I kidding. “People?” That’s my mum in a nutshell.
My Husband and I have a rule that if we get upset by something it can never be silly/nothing, etc.
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My Mum has always said to me “youre too sensitive” when she says something that upsets me. My reply? “well if you knew that why did you say it?”
Mother-Daughter therapy anyone??
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Sounds like my mum too. Only her standard response is either “you’ve got no sense of humour” or “you can’t take a joke”… ugh.
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Going a little off topic here, but I have been married nearly 2 years and I am amazed at the amount of people who think it’s appropriate to ask when I am having children! Seriously, don’t people realise what sort of minefield they are entering when asking that question?
my answers are becoming borderline rude e.g. ‘have you considered the possiblity that we can’t have children?’ Queue horrified silence- I let them know that it’s not actually the case, but seriously, what if it was??
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Don’t worry, once you have had one baby they ask when you are having the next one – and so on until they realise you have stopped having babies.
The questions and the judgements never stop.
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Not until they realise you have stopped. They don’t realise. They ask. Usually in a way which implies either that you need to stop or that you really should be having more.
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i get this all the time too. it drives me crazy.
yes, what if we can’t have children? what if we are trying but are having difficulty? and what if we just don’t want children? and why is it anyone’s business? why do people think that just cos you get married, your sex life is a topic of discussion? it’s kinda sick!
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haha and even before you’re married its ‘are you guys gonna get married?’ argh I’ve been with my boyfriend 4 years and people ask me that ALL THE TIME. when I refer to him as my fiance, THAT means we’re going to get married. for now, he’s my boyfriend. yes, we both want to get married at some point but I’m not going to tell you that and have you going and telling everyone we’re engaged. urgh.
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I’m single and get “So when are you going to get yourself a boyfriend then?” Uh, forgot to get one last time I was at the supermarket, silly me!
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I used to get that so often! I worked at an RSL during my uni days and customers (usually old men) would often say, “So why don’t you have a boyfriend?” I started out just laughing politely but after I realised these questions would come a few times each shift from the same punters, I used to pretend to get all teary and sob “Because no one wants me!”
No one asked twice after that.
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Brilliant! Will remember that one.
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I made an inappropriate remark (I thought in fun, originally), but after I thought about it, I went back out and said “I think what I said was wrong and I’m very upset if I may have offended you”.
I think if you knowling make a mistake, then follow through with an apology.
I know this guy well enough to have done both, but I’m still ashamed that I let those words ‘fall out of mouth without thinking first’.
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Good on you for taking responsibility for your own actions. If more people did this, the world would be a much nicer place.
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I can’t believe people think its’OK to discuss your sexuality like that.
I have had people say when they find out my son is gay “How did you cope?” with a concerned look.
I usaully say that the only thing I ( and he ) have to cope with is the ignorance of people who ask questions like this!”And how do you cope with being so ignorant? Must be a struggle!”
My son is a successful, wonderful young man – nothing to “cope”with there! Save your sympathy for people with kids with dsiabilities or termianl illness. I don’t need it!
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“And how do you cope with being so ignorant? Must be a struggle!”
–> touché, I love it!
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That lady had an appaling attitude, no question about it. But i’ve been reading some of the comments and started thinking how it’s impossible to speak nowadays. If you disagree with someone, they are offended. If you say anything negative (do you like my dress? no, not really! “) well what? she asked, i don’t like the dress, i say it! it’s nothing to get offended about! i didn’t say i didn’t like her!! just the dress.
People have a habit of asking questions they don’t want a truthful answer to. all they want is scripts of niceness.
Oh and Brendan, do not let bigotted old ladies hurt you…mess with their head a bit. tell them your father was gay too, because it’s genetic. And that you can sense some lesbianism in her. Or something.
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That is a totally different situation – if you ASK someone for their opinion.
What we are discussing is UNSOLICITED judgement (capitals not for shouting, but for highlighting).
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It’s not about never speaking for fear of causing offence, because that’s not possible. It’s about treating one another with kindness in the first place and when you do stuff up, making amends and behaving better in the future.
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The most fun I have is with the various religious evangelists that come to the door. First I tell them I have a pagan door knocker (which I do), then I go on to challenge all of their vicious little pieces of Biblical rubbish about gay people and end by informing them that they are wicked because of their lack of human empathy and acceptance, that they are so far from what Jesus would have done that it makes the mind boggle, and they will surely go to hell. You turn their own terminology back on them.
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Great article. Fantastic.
I’m quite shy, and quiet, and just go along, go along.
But recently, I haven’t accepted rudeness and bigotry and uneducated responses. Even ‘harmless’ things-jokes, ‘abos’/ ;coons’/lesos….
I have upset people by this, including my brother’s girlfriend, but you know what…. I don’t agree with it, and not speaking against it is as bad as saying it. I mean, I’m not going to stand up against everything and everyone.
I think it’s like bullying-I’m a teacher-if people stood up against it, it would go away, but when good people stand by and watch….
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A friend of mine wrote a joke on Facebook about Aborigines… It went something like this ” Cyclone Yasi went through an Aboriginal town and made 3 million dollars worth of improvements”…
Some people cracked themselves up laughing. Others found it offensive, including myself. So, I wrote a blog about it.
I was condemned and made fun of for taking the joke seriously. Um, you may be joking, but sometimes jokes are not funny.
Wogs make up jokes about themselves, but it is the wogs that can do it…Yes I am a wog and find wog jokes funny. But if I heard an aussie say one I would wonder about their intention.
Yes we need to take life less seriously, however I find that sometimes these jokes are a disguise of underlying prejudices.
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This I don’t get…apparently it’s okay for a “wog” to make a “wog” joke and it’s acceptable for a “non-wog” audience to laugh.
“Non-wog” makes “wog” joke to the same audience and it’s not acceptable to laugh.
As I say, I just don’t get it. Either way, a stereotype is being exploited, surely ?
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The fundamental difference is that by using the word wog about yourself it is empowering. You have taken away the negative connotations by using it in a positive way, albeit it may sometimes be used to make fun of your culture/ parents etc but it is still positive.
In much the same way Richard Pryor used the N word, he took it away from the racists, Chris Rock does it now.
It is their word to use not a word being used against them.
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It might be “their” word. It still doesn’t make the joke funny.
Surely a perpetuation of a racist stereotype is a perpetuation of a racist stereotype whether the comedian be Ahn Do, Chris Rock or Michael Richards ?
I don’t find it acceptable for any audience to roll about laughing because someone feels the need to take the piss out of their own race, gender or sexual preference.
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To which joke are you referring?
Comedy of course is completely subjective.
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You are seriously expecting me to put that in writing ? I don’t intend perpetuating stereotypes.
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Couldn’t agree more.
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This is a slight tangent, but I find this logic really interesting, especially regarding the use of words that have been used to control women; slut and c*nt being two obvious ones that spring to mind.
I used to completely agree that for a woman to use these words took the negative power out of them, allowing the words to be reclaimed by people that don’t want to use these words to hurt others.
My experience has taught me that the connotations of all language run far deeper than an individual’s or small group’s interpretation of it, and you can never really rid a word of its negative power, simply by using it in a positive way.
I know this is just my own subjective interpretation of events that have played out in my life, but it has meant that I avoid these words regardless of the context.
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Have to agree. I think just because you know you are using it subversively, it doesn’t mean others will know that and it more or less gives people permission to use the word however they wish.
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interestingly, ‘slut’ in scotland has a differnent connotation than it does in Australia. A much merrier one. So cultural differences can make things offenseive that aren’t meant that way.
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It’s not something I completely understand either. When I was younger and didn’t know “the rules”, I was friendly with a group of people of Italian descent, they always called themselves wogs or said, “that’s a wog thing”. I don’t recall ever using the word, but I think that them using the word around me could have been construed as giving the greenlight for me to say it in jest like they were(like i said I was younger and naive). As we were friends what offense could be taken? Anyway I guess my point is, how are we supposed to know it’s wrong to use certain words when we are hearing them used frequently unless someone tells us?
I mean I get the whole taking back the power of a word thing and I get that they get to use whatever word they want to describe themselves I really do. It’s just I don’t know if I agree with it. Maybe Im sore because I don’t belong to a minority that I can make fun of.
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I can see why you do not understand it either. I can only say that in my close nit group at school, my friends who were Aussie, never offended us when they called us wogs or Lebs etc….I think that if you are close to someone, then that person will know you are joking. But, if you are not close to a person and you say it, then it is usually coming from a place of nastiness….
I hope that makes sense…
I think people sense where you are coming from too. I know when someone is being nasty and when someone is plain and simply joking. You can sense it.
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Bradly, I do see your point and there are people in the community who feel the same. In fact, I have a friend in her 50′s who has a real issue with this. So, yes, you are certainly making a valid point…But for the majority, it seems to be great.
Also when jokes are made by wogs, there seems to be an implicit understanding. It can also be extremely healing for us. However, I am sure you can understand that if a non wog made fun of the culture, it is usually comes from a place of prejudice and nastiness.
I can see why you are confused. I think you just need to take our word for it that we are ok with making light of our situation.
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I have an extended family who are very “backwards” with the way in which they see the world and the people within it. I’ve spent a significant portion of my life trying to change their opinions about people of different races, beliefs and sexuality (not to mention myriad other subjects) but it seems logic doesn’t necessarily apply.
It’s a difficult task to encourage bigoted people to see beyond their limited perspectives. The bigotry is often ingrained from a young age (generally as a result of a bigoted upbringing) and becomes a part of their personality. For a person to let go of a construct they’ve held their whole lives is a frightening thing. It changes their “secure” view of the world and leaves them without a foundation from which to relate to it.
My love and respect to anyone who has to deal with people’s inconsiderate remarks and behaviours. A joke that belittles another person is not a joke, it’s an insult.
Thankyou, Brendan, for your wonderfully written words and thoughtful commentary. It’s sad that your colleague never took the opportunity to know the real and wonderful person behind the “stigma” *rolls eyes* of your sexuality.
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I live in the western suburbs of Sydney and my coworker asked me what I was up to on the weekend. I mentioned I might visit panthers, a local club. This was met with a wry smile and an “oh yeah, panthers aye” now when he asks he tacks on the end “so, did you go to panthers?” with derision in his voice. Makes me feel embarrased to admit where I live
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This is a wonderful post! thanks!!
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Brendan, you were treated without respect. That is very wrong. It should not have happened, it should not be condoned or acceptable. End of story.
What’s going on at Mamamia today ?
It seems as if it’s “who can hate the haters loudest and longest” day. The louder you express your hatred and disgust of any incident, the louder you are lauded. Gimme a break !
Now slightly off the subject, there seems to be an element in society that just enjoys being offended. For any reason, at that. You can criticise someone’s choice of music, meal or mantra….instantly you have a quivering mess of molten anger on your hands, oh so offended.
Where has all the thick skin gone ? Are we spending too much of our time getting upset over things that should just be allowed to pass us by ? Is instant offence the new religion or the new dictatorship ?
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I don’t know Bradley. I think you are right to an extent, people get their backs up about the slightest things sometimes. I just find that sometimes your argument gets used by those wishing to minimalise real offence. As we have discussed before, nothing is black and white, but yes I sure do wish people would pick their battles and not get easily offended by petty things.
Funnily enough I was reading the Punch today and the exchange between Melinda Tankard Reist and Stephen Harrington regarding the Kanye West video brings up a whole host of difficulty in defining what we should get upset about and what we shouldn’t. Not even sure where I come down on the issue myself.
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What about when they say..”no offense but…” YEAH – Um do not say it. It will go from bad to worse, I guarantee you.
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“Where has all the thick skin gone ? ”
The real question is where have the good manners gone. It’s one thing to be silently curious about Brendan’s family dynamics (or anyone else’s); it is absolutely another to ask those things, out loud, of a near-stranger.
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If I may take the liberty of quoting Bradley…
“Brendan, you were treated without respect. That is very wrong. It should not have happened, it should not be condoned or acceptable. End of story.”
I think you are on the same side.
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Bradley,
Have to agree with you on this one. Above there is a comment ‘How dare someone ask us if we are having children?” being a completely inappropriate question to ask a newly married couple.
Sheesh. Next it’ll be “Do you want milk with that coffee?” “What if I was lactose intollerant! Do you want me to become ill?”
What that lady said was completely inappropriate, but there is truth that no matter what you say, someone can takeoffense.
Hell isn’t other people. Hell is not being able to communicate with other people.
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I don’t think those two questions are comparable in the least. If someone asks whether you want milk in your coffee, it’s generally because they want to supply (or not) the milk. That’s not the case with asking newlyweds about their reproductive intentions.
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As someone who struggles with infertility I hate the “when are you having children?” question. It’s a topic that I find personally upsetting. I hate being constantly reminded about my inability to reproduce. So by asking that question you’re heading into a conversational minefield.
To tell the truth you’re not really interested in knowing when we are planning to have kids. People ask these questions to fill a gap in the conversation. Find better gap fillers!
Yes, no matter what you say someone can take offense. But maybe you should only ask questions that you’re really interested in knowing the answer to.
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I can understand you hating the question, but is that question offensive?
I’m always interested in the answer, discussing children is one of the easiest avenues for strangers to bond. It’s not a gap filler, it’s an attempt to discover common ground.
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Bradley, I think a lot of comments fall into Mia’s “pretend this is a dinner party” idea. Obviously not all. But many that I have read, I would freely accept to be part of a dinner party debate. But – in that forum, it would be a lively conversation. I don’t think people would get quite so hot-headed or “offended” at what are,often, just other people’s opinions. Not judgements, opinions. We are here to communicate, but some people don’t like to hear opinions different from their own, and say so. So yes, I agree with you that people are too quick to take offence. The relative anonymity, as always, makes it easier to judge and be judged, than if it was face to face.
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My pet hate is when someone is confronted with having offended you, they say “I’m so sorry if I’ve offended you.”
I long to say, “Well, you HAVE offended me, the very fact that I’m telling you that you’ve offended me is because you HAVE! There are no ‘ifs’ about it!”
But I can’t. People would find THAT offensive.
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Nothing like a half-arsed apology to make you feel like it is all your fault! “I was not AWARE I offended you, I am very sorry” is a much better way to say it I think!
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I know right! You should be sorry because you’ve hurt someone’s feelings. No ‘if I’ve offended you’ bullshit.
You can’t control how other people will feel about your actions or words, and you can’t always know what will hurt people, but if you do hurt someone, you should acknowledge that hurt and apologise. That doesn’t mean you have to change your beliefs necessarily or constantly police yourself. But if you behave like a nit (like I did over on another post today…) harden up and accept that you’ve been a nit, make amends and move on.
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I think my favourite is when a footballer (and it always seems to be a footballer) holds a press conference that features the words ‘If I have offended anyone…’. Chances are, if you’re holding a press conference to explain yourself, you’ve offended quite a few people. Enough with the ‘if’ — come straight out and say sorry when it’s called for.
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It’s kind of offensive to well behaved footballers that you assume them to be the first cab-off-the-rank.
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“I’m so sorry if I’ve offended you.”
Even worse is “I’m sorry if you were offended”. It’s a subtle difference, but it places responsibility for the problem on the person who was offended.
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ergh yes! or “I’m sorry you must have misunderstood me”
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Why would it be embarrassing for one’s football-coaching dad to have a gay son?
Aren’t footballers known for, I don’t know, getting naked and flicking each other’s dicks with rubber bands for the camera?
The Shire is not so bad a place as it’s made out to be, BTW. My husband’s immediate family lives there, and he is married to a darkie, and they are very lovely and welcoming. As as their friends and neighbours. Just saying.
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Are you serious with the term ‘darkie’??
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Oh it’s me that’s the darkie. We use it tongue in cheek between ourselves. I forget others might find it unappealing.
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Makes sense that you are married to your husband!
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And here is the crux of the matter – she uses the term herself, without offending herself; no problem. Another person uses the term with blind ignorant prejduced overtones, and I am offended on behlaf of darkies everywhere. “Offence is in the mind of the beholder”. Therefore you can never be sure that what you say is not offenseive to someone, somewhere. Hence, the argh argh hideous “political correct” speak.
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I’m actually surprised that some people aren’t offended by AUSLAN. Surely a “naughty” gesture or two can be seen to have crept in when you watch people sign ?
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You know, ultimately it’s not words, but actions and intent that counts. Someone might use all the right politically correct terms but pass people over for a promotion, or refuse to rent them a house, or one of a myriad other ways silent discrimination is delivered. That’s the most insidious form, because it’s not overt, so you just. Never. Know. Exactly. Why.
I, like some and unlike others (for we are all different) are less affected by what people say, but more how they act.
It’s easy to get all bleeding hearted about a misused term or phrase here and there but really that’s just window dressing to the wider issues faced by minorities.
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Too true. I have always missed when someone is trying to offend or bully me, as it goes straight over my head. I remember one colleague was trying to bully me and when I realised what he was doing I was so astonished/amazed that I laughed in his face.
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