UPDATE: US President Barack Obama has, for the first time, come out in support of same sex marriage. He said the First Lady ‘feels the way I do’.
“Over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbours, when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships – same-sex relationships – who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married.”
Now that he’s on side, here are some common arguments you can use to answer back at same sex marriage critics:
There has been a lot of talk about this gay marriage business bringing about the end of the world. Something about The Gays unhinging their collective maws and swallowing villages whole. It’s a compelling argument if you’ve ever been to Mardi Gras and mistaken it for the world’s most fabulous army invading the streets. We’re here, we’re queer and we’re annexing your collection of interior design manuals. However, contrary to popular belief, The Gays aren’t trying to take over the streets. Urban gentrification is about as militant as we get, believe me.
So to help those who feel like they need to keep peddling the marriage-go-round of mistruths, I have compiled this Stupendous Compendium of Anti Gay Marriage Arguments (and why they’re wrong).
You’re welcome.
It’s about religion.
No, it isn’t. Going to church is about religion. Loving thy neighbour is about religion. Marriage is a secular contract presided over by Government. Like taxes. Atheists get married. Religious people get married. Some churches won’t marry inter-racial couples, or previously divorced couples. They’re welcome to. That’s their right. But that doesn’t preclude these people from marriage altogether. Because it’s secular.
Legalising gay marriage only affects a small number of people, why bother?
There are two flaws with this. If we’d followed this logic then we would have had no black civil rights movement. And asking ‘why bother’ about a human rights imbalance is a little like ignoring the service station when your car is on fire and your face is melting. Tis merely a flesh wound, come back and I’ll bite your knee caps off! The ‘only them’ argument has consistently been shown, throughout history, to be reprehensible. We cannot afford to stand by while ‘only them’ becomes a chorus of our own inability to act. One day, and this is the lesson we still haven’t learned, ‘only them’ could become ‘only you’. It’s a lonely outpost. Would they care to make the same argument about disability funding?
It’s about procreation.
Then you might also want to ban marriages that take place later in life, beyond a couple’s child bearing years. Or you might consider banning marriage for heterosexual couples who don’t want children. Families are about procreation or adoption or surrogacy. Marriage is about love between two individuals. The idea that we must procreate to protect the human race was spawned, forgive the pun, during a time when sabre toothed tigers were an actual health threat and actual health care consisted of medicinal screaming. So yes, prolific bonking used to be a shared duty. The times have changed, somewhat.
We have more important problems to deal with!
This is disingenuous. Yes, I will help you with your civil rights movement but really, this trash isn’t going to take itself out. This is a familiar refrain. We have to fix health care! We have to fix the welfare system! And we do, we do. But if Government’s cannot multi-task, especially to instate a basic right of equality, then we are all in a little bit of trouble. And if you forever want to put gay marriage on the backburner, because the country has had a sudden need to legislate invisible cigarette packages, then we’ve successfully woven a beautiful too-hard-basket that would look simply delightful as the centrepiece on a hardwood table, fit for a gay.
Homosexuality is against the natural order!
And so are those farm animal ornaments with slinkies for legs. But they’re still in our homes. Truth be known – and science can be a wonderful master – homosexuality occurs quite often in nature. If you’ve never seen a pair of male dolphins doing miraculous things with their blowholes, you haven’t been watching enough SBS. Christian and philosopher Thomas Aquinas was a bit of a fan of looking to nature for validation of humanity’s own habits, which might explain the brief fad in the early days of raising our young in a burrow. There are actually some animals that spontaneously change sex from male to female and vice versa, so relying on the ‘natural order’ of things is rather a bit misleading.
Homosexuality is a choice. They made their gay bed, let them lie in it.
There is only one group of people capable of answering the question of choice and homosexuals. They are The Gays. I happen to be one of these. I was born this way. I like men the same way you know you like the opposite sex. Nobody taught you to. You just do. You’re hardwired and so am I. The implication that gay kids, a larger proportion of whom commit suicide because of horrendous bullying and identity issues, would choose to endure the torture of their childhoods is insulting. It’s insulting and you have no authority to tell us you know better. Because unless you’re gay, you don’t.
It’s a slippery slope. Just wait until The Gays can marry their brothers. Who are also animals.
Consent. Repeat after me. Animals cannot provide consent and beastiality is an avenue where consent cannot be provided in a ‘loving’ relationship. Unless you’re donkey has a Speak ‘n’ Say, there is no consent. And there are medical reasons why incest is frowned upon. But there is no decent, scientific, medical or moral reason why two loving, consenting, non-related adults should not be afforded the same rights as the majority.
It’s about morality, man. Think of morality, won’t you?
Two words. Las Vegas. Shotgun weddings that last 43 minutes aren’t really the pinnacle of morality. Nor are they sacred, for that matter. It’s only a slight affront that a heterosexual couple jacked up on cocaine and the better part of an entire bar can slur ‘I do’ with the full support of the law. That The Gays are forced to settle for ‘I Would’, even while measured against this same impressive yardstick, is simply unintelligible. Nothing is more moral, one would have thought, than a couple willing to devote themselves to each other for the rest of their lives. And this is true in the eyes of the law if you have both a penis and a vagina. You must have one of each between you lest you be cursed forever more to de facto relationships and cloudy legal rights in your old age. Morality indeed.
I totally agree, but let’s not call it marriage. Let them have civil unions!
Ahem. Let them eat cake? Those who adopt this argument can be the most frustrating as this is the one that glosses over the exact issue at stake here. This isn’t about every gay wanting to marry. This isn’t about the words themselves. It’s about what the options are and who has access to them. Apartheid South Africa had a water fountain for blacks and water fountains for whites. Essentially, nobody is missing out except that they’re both lapping at an entrenched division made possible by discrimination. Call it whatever you want. Call it Skiddlepop, if you must, but give it to everybody. If one doesn’t, then discrimination continues. Refusing to amend the marriage act is tantamount to saying The Gays are not worthy of the institution. And blacks aren’t worthy of the same drinking fountains, nor women the vote. Oh, history, it’s like an embarrassing echo.
I like gay people, but I don’t think they should be allowed to marry.
Let me guess, you also have lots of gay friends? And I have a hat made from kitten whiskers. You might like them – everyone has that token gay guy who hogs the karaoke machine at company functions and they’re a right hoot, I’m sure – but you don’t respect them. And respect is really what we’re after here.
But the Marriage Act clearly says it is between a Man and Woman!
Stop shouting. Yes, it does. Unfortunately that Act wasn’t amended by scholars in the 4th Century. It was amended by John Howard. In 2004. It was a deliberate move to exclude and it didn’t take long to execute. Amending the Act would be simple and absolutely no impediment to the debate whatsoever.
Well, here’s my analogy about a soccer player joining an AFL Game and wanting the rules changed Except the soccer player did choose to be a soccer player. And AFL isn’t the only game in town. And then all the men shower together at the end anyway. Hang on.
But, why should The Gays get special treatment?
If by special, you mean unequal. The Gays don’t want more than what the straights have. We want the same. Which is ironic, because that’s what homo means.
But if we let The Gays marry, I might turn gay.
No, you won’t. Honest. We’ll even promise to stop casting spells on your testosterone or oestrogen. Promise. It’s actually scientifically proven that touching a gay, or hearing about a gay wedding will have absolutely no bearing on your life whatsoever. Some very brave scientists risked homosexuality to empirically test this hypothesis, so best you show them some respect.
But a gay wedding would ruin my heterosexual marriage!
False. Unless a gay couple in the middle of their nuptials literally fell on top of your wedding ceremony, this is not going to happen. And I think you’ll agree that is a very unlikely course of events. Unless we all of a sudden legalise gay air weddings, which is just plain dangerous.
But if we let them marry, then they’ll have kids and we’ll end up with a gay society.
This one is simple. I am gay. My parents are not. Work it out.
*It’s about tradition
I didn’t think to include this one when I first wrote this post almost a year ago, because it was so patently absurd. But it seems to be the Prime Minister’s favourite excuse. It’s a silly one. Here are some other traditional things: slavery, women not being allowed to vote (yes, that’s right Ms Gillard), legwarmers, witch hunts, lynchings, stonings, horses as a principal means of transport, sacrifices of disabled children to the Gods, living in caves.
Yeah, an argument of ‘tradition’ is an argument against meaningful progress. Good luck with that one and all.
Just because.
Sigh.
You really can’t argue against that. Can you?








Comments
785 Comments so far
This is probably the greatest post I have ever seen on this site. I even used it in a university essay (don’t worry, you were duly credited, I swear!). Seriously, every point is irrefutable in my eyes. There need to be more people like you in the world.
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Well, I’ve noticed that everyone else here seemed to have something very long, intelligent and condescending to say with lots of mature vocabluary . But I only have a couple of short and sweet arguments to put out there and I will say in advance to anyone who tries to shut me down with some lengthy, snobby reply, “F*** you” – that also applies to people who think I am a bad person for opposing gay marriage.
First of all, what really gets my goat is that marriage has forever been a straigt man’s game. So if a gay person want’s to go against the grain in being gay, why the hell should they want the same ceremony as a straight person? They made the conscious choice to be gay (or they were just ‘born that way’ as you argue, it doesn’t really matter how you see it) so why do they want to take part in a ritual designed for one man and one woman. What I’m trying to get at is that it has nothing to do with equality or descrimination: marriage is what marriage is. The best analogy I can think of for that is that murder has its own definition, and currently, killing an animal does not constitute as murder – it goes in its own category called ‘animal cruelty’. So why don’t people start protesting for the act of killing an animal to be included in the definition of murder? Because murder is what murder is and the two aren’t related!
Another thing that I came to disagree with through reading this chain is that people are arguing that gay marriage is not the same as incestual marriage because there are ill products of incestual relationships such as deformities and disease. Is it not a fact that AIDS is very easily generated through gay sex? I know you will probably bite back at this by saying that a lot of AIDS is caused from male-female sex but the point I was proving is that gay and incestual aren’t as different as you think.
And yeah, I noticed that a lot of gay people are agains polygamy. Who are you to say ‘no’? If you are pushing for your own ‘rights’, why not let everyone else push for their own? I wouldn’t want to hear ANY gay person putting forward arguments against polygamy or incest marriage EVER. Practise what you preach, hypocrites.
What I think is that, in trying to legalise marriage, gay people are trying to prove that they are the ‘same’ as straight people. Well obviously you are not – seeing as you bat for the other team, putt from the rough and what have you. So be proud of your gayness, why should you want to do what straight people do in getting married? That’s their thing, not yours. Make your own thing. I know this sounds really stupid, but it’s like a club – there are requirements to get in. And, as before, I am one step ahead of you. You will say that “Yeah, all that segregation between black and white people….blah blah blah…..just about preference and descrimination……it’s showing that same hate towards gay people” Well no it’s not. And here’s why it’s not. People, no matter what colour their skin, are still people – they are all the SAME! And with women’s rights, women are a very natural part of society and so they belong in it. Now homosexuality – and this is where you will grind your teeth and pull your hair out in frustration – IS NOT NATURAL!!! There, I said it. Obviously, it is not natural. Male and Female of every species are created oppositely so they can reproduce. They each have special bits so they can go to the other sex with their own special bits to make babies. And when you rebut with “Yeah, but animals show homosexual tendencies”, I’m thinking to myself “Are you really putting us humans in par with animals? Do you really think they know any better?” Come on now, animals will just fornicate with anything that moves – wonder why dogs hump peoples’ legs? In conclusion: other races and women are a natural part of society, homosexuality is not. If it was, men would be able to make babies with men. And don’t you dare bring up those funky frogs that change sexes part way through life – they have their own party going on.
Something else that I don’t think is quite right is that gay couples think it’s okay to adopt children. This isn’t because I think “Ew, if you can’t do it the natural way, then no children for you!” It’s because no one even consideres what repercussions this might have on the child through it’s whole entire life. True, both of the adoptive parents can give the child boundless love and the child will without a doubt reciporicate this love to both of its fathers or mothers. I don’t really even care that one argument might be “They need a father figure and a mother figure”, to me, children feeling loved by parents is all the same. But what the child will have to face in the outside world is a painful truth – people WILL descriminate against them and bully them because their parents are gay. Face it, kids at school can be vicious. Descrimination never dies, just in the same way there are still KKK vets and pro-Nazi supporters. It’s endless. They will be put down because they don’t come from a normal family. And something I’m a little bit iffy on and not sure if I whole heartedly support it and not sure if I should say it is that growing up with gay parents may influence the child to become homosexual because they think it’s the norm. If being gay is something that you are just ‘born’ being, it shouldn’t be something that can be easily instilled in a child’s idea of what is normal – especially since the very early years of a child are spent mainly with their parents and not many other people.
And before you get all flustered and your panties in a twist, think about what I’ve said. It’s logical, nothing to do with descrimination. I read the argument that people who are against gay marriage but are okay with people being gay don’t really respect gay people. Well, yes they do – they just don’t understand why gay people want to play a straight person’s game.
I won’t write anything about religious reasons because, while I am Catholic, I understand that people strongly believe that the bible is unfounded and unproven. So fair enough. It’s more of a personal thing anyway – believing.
And yes, I realised that this is not short and sweet. Once I got going it became a snowball effect. Lastly I just want to reassure you that people who are against gay marriage are not heartless, hateful people. They have their reasons like you have yours.
I really hope you took the time to read this. It’s been so difficult to get my opinion out without people looking at me like I’m a B****.
“Live long and prosper!”
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http://socyberty.com/crime/gay-marriage-incest-and-hypocrisy/
I would like to see you refute the above.
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Regarding about your points mentioned in the response to the “slippery slope” argument, I should point out that medical reasons are not used to prevent couples from having children; parents are not prevented from having children just because a bad gene could be passed onto the child. Also, there are many things we do to animals without asking for their consent (do you think the slaughter-man ask the cow if he wanted to be turned into food?) The slippery slope argument still stands.
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dude, you left out a big one
people are accusing gays of being paedophiles and it is a difficult argument to debunk see kirk Cameron (yes the banana wielding idiot)
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If they legalize gay marriage then i will march in the streets to legalize polygamous marriage, & marriage to an animal, no one should be discriminated against in any way, if i love my horse i should be able 2 marry it, if i love another man i should be able to marry him, if i want 4 wives who are you 2 judge that is wrong or right
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Hahahahaha. I like you.
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Totally true….. u r a smart argument mate…
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hi guys we are from high school and we have no idea why anyone could be against it. we live in a society where everyone has their own choices and have the right to their own happiness. we are all equals so why do straights get the advantage of choosing and marrying the ones they love? why cant they be given the opportunity to fall in love with their perfect person and get married? in the end its all about the politics… they think it will affect our society. it probably will but minorly. we would adapt to the new lives just like we adapt to a new car or mobile phone. Its not their fault if they are born like that! if you had gay parents at least be thankful that they took on the opportunity to adopt you because ur former parent/s gave you up. They only want what we have? so why isnt it legal yet?
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I dont believe in gay marriage and Im gay. I spent the last few decades or so fighting my religion, family and culture to get to this point where I am now. There’s no way I’d accept a hetro institution personally, and neither would my partner who’s been with me for nearly 10yrs now. And if we were forced to, all you’d get from us is a big F*** OFF and two middle fingers.
But in saying that, its a free land, and if gays want to go down the gay marriage path, they better get ready for all the other nasties that come with it, like gay divorce and gay custordy battles.
And here’s a question for you? Once we get married, can we still have threesomes?
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So is the reason you are against it is because it would cause too much hasstle or drama?
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Seriously? You expect us to believe that you yourself are gay when you say things like ‘if gays want to go down the gay marriage path’.
Let me tell you an interesting fact of life gay dennis.
Gays may not personally be in favour of marriage, but nor do they consider it ‘gay marriage’. Instead the gays tend to just call it ‘marriage’
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Ahh! it is all too true! how can anyone, anyone at all give reasonable argument against it? they cant without contradicting themselves twelve times in the same sentence. shit. My partner has decided he does not like homosexuals, apparently only males can be wrong in being so though, as its different with lesbians? it angers me so much, i hate homophobics! despite the numerous times i have drilled into him the fact that he is not at risk, that no male interested in other males would be interested in him and if they were rape would have to occur before he obliged, and obviously not all gay people are Rapists, he still.. without any real consideration, is so against the thought of gay marriage. This is not a pandemic, homosexuality has been around since creation, i believe in god. i believe that he created us all, equal, in his image, and not one of us, straight, gay, or undecided is perfect. we all have defects, being gay is not of them. I like and i dislike gay people just as much as i like and dislike straight people, everyone is capable of being obnoxious, arragant, annoying or self centred, whether or not you are straight. People should be judged not on their race, religion, gender, sexuality, culture, age or mental/physical ability.. but on thier own individual merit!!
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I just wanted to put this out there, before you judge people for being against gay marriage consider that 20 years ago gay people in society were looked down upon because their love is unnatural but now it seems that its not according to many people, and that’s okay. But the thing is pedophilia is a love looked down upon in society right now and if whoever wrote this article is ready to tell me that in 20 years he/ she will be happy for their child to be a pedophile and love children then fair enough. So, i just want to say the whole concept is a tad ridiculous, allowing for gay marriage is like allowing for pedophilia. Hey, just stating my opinion and i hope people respect that. Oh and by the way I’m not gay and I’m not a pedophile I’m an 18 year old atheist who doesn’t even believe in Christianity and i was raised in this society that strongly supports gays. And also want to spring up your thoughts, abortion? surrogacy? group sex? ALL OF THESE ARE THE SAME CONCEPTS and if you are naive enough to deny this then ok, be close minded.
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Its not the first time someone’s tried to compare homosexuality to pedophilia. IMO the main difference between the two is that there is a huge power imbalance with pedophiles and children. Gay relationships, as with straight ones tend to be between equal, consenting adults.
That doesn’t even touch on the fact that victims of sexual abuse are quite often physically injured, as well as mentally, or that it’s part of an unhealthy relationship, or that it’s imposed upon children who are completely developmentally not ready for it. Gay relationships can and should be equal and similar to straight ones, with sexual preference and an inability to marry the biggest differences.
I sincerely hope you’re trolling.
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I don’t understand this argument. Why are you equating consentual relationships/sex between gay people and the crime of paedophilia? Why is the rape of women/girls by men not an argument against heterosexual marriage? Seems to me like a false equivalence, and a selective one at that.
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It’s all about consent. CONSENT!!!
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I used to think I never really had an opinion on this – I’m not gay and I never really spoke about this issue with my gay friends. I have to admit that i was probably leaning towards being against, just because that was how i was bought up. Then my son was born and I now think what if he’s gay? I want him to experience love & commitment with the person he falls in love with and everything that entails. My husband & children are the most important things in my life. If my son is gay why should he be denied the right to experience this too? I want the world for him & that won’t change if he’s gay. I’m am now a strong supporter for gay marriage & hope we get the opportunity to correct this inequality.
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Love it Rick. Even Abbott denies his sister…at least politically.
I hate to be the one to do this, ok no I don’t, but I’m going to pick on your grammar. It’s better as “Unless your donkey…” not you’re which grammatically makes no sense.
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Ha, typo I never re-read! Thanks mate.
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Rick, fantastic article as always!
I especially loved “But if we let The Gays marry, I might turn gay.” as an aquaintance was asking questions as I have a gay son & I always love chatting about him, both my children really, anyways she had some (sadly) worries about her son and I had to say to her “Honey, they’re not recruiting!”
I must say I do have a little extra hope today, especially as our Julia really looks up to Obama.
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Rick – you have made my day with this. I would add a billion likes if I had the time to sit here and do so. You rule.
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Oh you are lovely! I’ll just pretend you liked it a billion times
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Maybe the Marriage Act just needs to be ditched altogether. That would be the easiest way out for the Prime Minister. We need to go down the European/Asian path where people (think Charles and Camilla, Albert of Monaco …) have a mandatory civil ceremony, then any religious ‘marriage’ is an optional extra. That would also get over the ridiculous nonsense of million dollar marriages that only last a week!
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Just saw this on Today. Hope Julia takes note.
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this. is. awesome.
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Thanks!
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We are all hypocrites.
Gays argue that they aren’t getting their due respect, but then disrespect the religious choice of keeping marriage exclusive, but in keeping it exclusive Christians are going against their own morals of not judging and being accepting and understanding.
We are all screwed.
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Janine, no one is disrespecting religious institutions’ rights to keep their marriages exclusive. No one is suggesting churches be forced to marry homosexuals, and as Rick pointed out many churches refuse to marry inter-racial couples and people who have divorced. This is about the secular institution of marriage under the law, and religion has nothing to do with that.
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Smart and clearly put. Thanks Rima for sharing this one.
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This is just such a smart, logical and articulate article. i am sending it to everyone who doesn’t really “get it” why basic human rights are even in question in 2012. Thanx Rick
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Well, of course Rick’s arguments are “smart, logical and articulate”. He wrote the article…he chose the questions to answer…and he wrote those questions with a blatantly air-headed tone. Almost any response to a question like “But a gay wedding would ruin my heterosexual marriage!” would sound logical because the question itself if logically flawed and punctuated to sound ridiculous.
To be clear I am not saying Rick is bad writer, because I don’t think he is. It’s just that I don’t like the tone he takes for some of the questions that, while meaning to be humorous, actually gets in the way of the intended humour.
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You dont need to be a genius to figure out that same sex marriage is not a natural course.
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To be fair, marriage isn’t exactly a “natural course” either, it’s a man-made institution, one that should be available to everyone, equally.
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Rick, you seem like a lovely young man and you are an engaging writer. In short, I’m a fan but I can’t and won’t back gay marriage, no matter how many times I’m told to. I think Anna and lovelove and ‘numbers’ have bought up some valid objections.
Many gays of my generation are bewildered that we are even having this debate. If you are gay then you can’t get married. If you are short and fat then you can’t be a model. If you are blind then you can’t drive. If you are tone deaf then you can’t be an Opera singer – NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WANT TO BE.
When I was your age I wanted dope legalised. ‘It’s harmless, it doesn’t hurt anybody …’ Well, years later and with the experience and wisdom that comes with age, I now realise how stupid I was. I realise that it isn’t the harmless drug I thought it was and that society is lucky they took no notice of my tantrum.
In short, as you grow up you realise that situations have consequences that are much deeper that you want to believe.
Sometimes life isn’t fair – that’s a fact.
ps your comment about people who say they ‘like gays’ but don’t respect them is nonsense. In the big wide world most people have homosexual relatives and friends. Some are promiscuous beyond belief and some have been in strong relationships for decades – just like hetro relatives and friends. I don’t ‘respect’ people based on whether they are married or not. I have a friend who has been in a hetro de facto relationship for forty years – they consider themselves as good as married and so do I.
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Modelling is used essentially to sell a product by giving it an attractive model, which wouldn’t be a fat person and in divisions such as fashion modelling short people. I liked your use of this analogy in that for short people below a certain height requirement becoming a commercial fashion model is impossible because of factor they can’t control; they just have to suck it up. However I disagree in comparing this to gay marriage in that as I said modelling is used for selling a product which gay marriage does not.
If you are blind you can’t drive because you would be a danger to society, you could potentially kill someone. Having gay marriage doesn’t pose a danger to society, it isn’t as if by allowing gay people to marry people would becoming more likely to be run over by cars.
If you are tone deaf you can’t be an opera singer because no one would want to hear your performance let alone pay for it. Therefore you wouldn’t be able to make an income for it. I fail to see how this compares to getting married.
Now with your comparison of legalising dope to gay marriage, I am actually having trouble with where to start with this so I am just going to point out a flaw in your argument. As young and ignorant as I am sure you were of the dangers of dope, there are plenty of mature and intellectual people that believe that gay marriage is not harmful to people. For example being homosexual is no longer considered a mental illness by the American Psychiatric Society. In my opinion this comparison isn’t valid and sounds insulting there are very good reasons that dope wasn’t legalised such as it harmful effects on the brain, you haven’t mentioned any reasons why gay marriage is harmful to society.
The comment “Sometimes life isn’t fair – that’s a fact.” seems to sum up your main contention that I understand it as. However I disagree that this is a reason for disallowing gay marriage. Whether or not it is true it still isn’t a valid reason, it is something someone says as a consolation because it would be impolite to state the actual answer. I am positive that the reason you don’t want gay marriage is not because ‘life isn’t fair.’
I just thought that I would also address the point made by the article from Anna that you mentioned. It is only an article mentioning that gay marriage has been used as a political platform. Does this really mean that it is any less of a valid issue? As Rick has mentioned there being other problems in society doesn’t mean that we should forget about it and I would think the rights of people in out society would be fairly high on any governments list.
ps. you missed the point completely about respecting ‘gays,’ the writer wasn’t discussing respecting people based on whether or not they are married, if anything he was talking about that by respecting people we would give them the same equal rights which are to get married.
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Ummm well short fat people can lose weight, tone deaf people can still learn to have good pitch and scientists have worked incredibly hard to let hundreds if not thousands of blind people see again. This is beside the point anyway. There is no reason that gay people shouldn’t marry, it just happens to be the law which can be changed. Why should all the gay people who want to get married just give up on it when there is no good reason that they shouldn’t be allowed it? If there was a cure for a form of cancer that was killing you but it was illegal because of illogical and nonsensical tradition you sure as hell wouldn’t just lie down and die. Have some backbone to fight for positive change.
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Dear Anon (pity you wont use a Profile Name – There’s too many of “Anon’s”in this debate)
Its called People Rights!
If you are short and fat – you can’t be a model .. SAYS WHO? You do …
If you are blind then you can’t drive … What a disgusting argument – I guarantee you were never on the debating team in school.
If you are tone deaf then you can’t be an opera singer – SAYS WHO?
You’re very vocal on who can and can’t do things aren’t you.
I have a disgusting voice for opera, but I don’t sing in front of the crowds …. I share my outstanding vocal abilities within my home (primarily my shower) and I receive a standing ovation EVERY SINGLE TIME … from me!
HOW DARE YOU decide who can and can’t do something. You perhaps need to address some points covered in the Human Rights agreement –
The day will come, and I believe it will be in my lifetime, that Gay Marriage will be legal and I will celebrate this. I also believe you have not lived long enough to understand the term “people in glass houses …. ” I think you will regret this statement in years to come .. I hope you gain a broader understanding of people’s rights within this world –
In the meantime, you may like to have a look at this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pR9gyloyOjM
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I love this…pretty much says it all!
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I should note that I’m a DIFFERENT Anna to the one whose posted below – which was hopefully obvious!
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read this article – http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100141828/gay-marriage-is-now-the-issue-through-which-the-elite-advertises-its-superiority-over-the-redneck-masses/ and check not only wether gay marriage is right but also why you put so much effort into supporting it when there are far more pressing problems that need your yoice
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Totally agree, Anna.
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Why does the gay community discriminate against the Poly Love community? Why did they try to block them from the Mardi Gras? If two men or two women can marry because they love each other, why not three women? Or two men and one woman? Or four men and four women?
Can’t all of these arguments in favour of gay marriage all be applied to poly marriage too?
From GayNewsNetwork: “The concerns of ARAMIS come on the back of worries from other groups such as Polyamory Australia, who, before an eventual back down from organisers, were initially only granted entry to participate as a ‘supporter’ group as they were not considered part of the queer community
A statement from Polyamory Australia said that while the local poly community was in a continuing debate over how polyamory fits into queer theory, most of last year’s participants in its Parade float identified as LGBTIQ.
“It wasn’t up to Mardi Gras to decide who is queer,” the statement read.
“For many polyamorists, it was particularly offensive because the parade’s slogan is ‘Infinite Love For All’, and the logo is a pair of hearts arranged to form an infinity symbol — polyamorous groups worldwide have used similar symbology for decades.”
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Whaaaaat? They are completely different things!! That’s like saying “if heterosexual marriage between a man and a woman is legal, why can’t heterosexual marriage between a man and two women be legal?” It’s a completely different set of circumstances!
You’re basically implying that if The Gays get to marry then marriage should be a free for all. As opposed to marriage being a legal union between two people who love each other (regardless of their sex).
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Floodgates, Anna … opening. I remember reading a piece in the Huffington Post that said group marriage is already starting to be pushed for.
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So if we legalise gay marriage then marriage between family members will occur too? That would be part of the floodgates. Except that it won’t get approved, because there are a million fundamental reasons for why it’s harmful – as with group marriage. They’re completely different things.
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Personally think the arguments made above could equally be used to support polygamy and poly lovers out there. Heck there are probably just as many Muslim men and women who want to legalize their informal arrangements of two or more wives.
Why shouldn’t marriage be extended to them.
Let everyone marry. Man, women in any combination and permutation. Why the hell not. It’s not like it means anything these days with divorce. The institution of marriage died last century.
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Here’s something someone said to me the other day “If gays can’t marry then why should disabled people be allowed to marry?” >.<
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Um sorry, disabled? Do you know what that means? DISABILITY, with a bloody disorder.. whoever said that to you is stupid, because being gay isn’t a disability and that’s besides the point even your comment is completely insignificant because disabled people are still straight sooo….what? please get your argument straight
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Yes I do – considering that I have disabilities myself and it looks like my keyboard didn’t let me finish my comment because what I was meant to say at the end of that was that it was a stupid statement said to me by a stupid idiot.
for the record though a friend who works at centrelink had some idiot come in claiming his doctor told him he could get disability pension because he was gay….
and I didn’t have an argument – I’m all for gay marriage, I’m just saying this debate has reached the point of silly comments to try and “prove a point” as the idiot who made this comment said to me before I polietly told him to get lost before I told him how offensive that comment was to me.
apologies if I do not make sense – but basically the person making the comment is in the camp of believing that being gay is a choice/illness and that’s why he chose to make the comment to me
hopefully I’ve cleared it up Sami?
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I love the humour woven through. I am surprised you have to point these things out, as they are most (maybe all) obvious. My favourite one is the fear that “I might turn gay” like it’s an illness you can catch. lol
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The fact is the responses to the “arguments” are obvious because only simple minded bimbos would use them….Therefore the reason why Rick Morton included them in this article. It’s obviously extremely biased and the humour you mention is there to brand anyone who opposes gay marriage as simply stupid. And I think we all know that is not true.
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I’ve never heard any other argument, care to enlighten?
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here’s an article questioning why gay marriage is such a prevalent issue – http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100141828/gay-marriage-is-now-the-issue-through-which-the-elite-advertises-its-superiority-over-the-redneck-masses/ –
and also I do agree most of the arguments you took from the “opposing side” are either not believed nor used in a debate or are expressed in such a way so as to make them sound silly.
for example the “religion” argument you say marriage is a legal institution, well people in homosexual relationships have all the same legal rights as straight people so there is no real purpose in legalising it officially.
As for homosexuality being natural it dosen’t make it good, sickness is natural, death is natural, birth deformaties are natural but it does not make them good.
thats all i’ve got at the moment off the top of my head but I’m sure there is more if you research it
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I’m gay, Anna. I’ve been having this conversation for years now and I’ve heard every argument there is, including that article. I obviously disagree with all of them. I’ve never once heard a good argument against. Not once. It’s a human rights issue. Full stop. It’s not just about legal status. It’s about equality in the eyes of the community; especially when governments hold out with no valid opposition. The only thing that will change if same sex marriage is allowed is that same sex people will be able to get married.
And that’s equality. No more ‘separate but equal’. That didn’t worked in apartheid or 1960s America and it won’t work now.
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And Anna, as a lawyer I can tell you that there are differences between de facto rights and marriage rights.
The whole de facto thing pisses me off so much. Of my two close friend, one is gay. She has been with her partner for 6 years and they have two beautiful children together. My other bestie isn’t gay, and moved in with her boyfriend of about 3 months because her lease was up, two years ago. They are now technically de factos, even though they moved in out of convieniance (essentially) and have no intention of marrying (she’s not sure whether he’s the one, they’re young – who knows what will happen).
One couple has chosen a permenant life together but can’t have it recognised by marriage. The other couple is a more casual short term relationship that may or may not be permenant, in which they don’t want to get married.
Yet legally, their relationships carry the same weight – that is so insulting to the gay couple!
I acknowledge that my relationship with my bf (lovely as he is) isn’t as serious as my sister’s relationship with her husband (for example) – because we’ve chosen not to marry. Gay people should have the same choice about what to make of their relationship./
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This article is disgustingly oversimplified, and the writer’s tone is both insulting and demeaning. No point going further, it seems obvious enough anyway.
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Agreed, I thought it would be obvious.
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I’ve had arguments with my dad, asking him why he doesn’t support gay marriage. He’s literally used most of the reasons Rick listed. He’s even said “just because” a few times, when people have called him out on using arguments that just don’t line up with the facts. Once he told me that he’d have to “go away and think about why gay marriage is so wrong” and get back to me with a good reason as to why.
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whoo
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Your statement about incestuous marriage was that there are medical reasons why it would not work out, in this case i ask you whether you would be in favor of gay incestuous marriage where the issue of children having problems will not be an issue?
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its about traditions,belives,religions and the word of God.its not about arguments,reasons or legalising gay marriage!!its about something that isnt in our hand and no one have control over it but god.its showing respect and listening to god as a way to thank him for all his gifts,love,care and support that he gave,gives and will continue to give for us throghout our lives.
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Perhaps you are referring to YOUR traditions/beliefs/God – and you are free to live your life however you choose. However, why do your personal traditions and beliefs dictate how other people live theirs? Your beliefs are yours and some others, but they do not apply to the whole world. It’s ignorant if you think they do or should. I assume gay people are not lobbying to ban your religion, so perhaps you shoud keep an open mind (or turn a blind eye) to their basic right of equality.
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I’m athiest and catagorically do not believe in any god. I guess that means I can’t marry.
Oh wait. Yes I can – because it’s a LEGAL document, NOT a religious one.
Your reasons for not wanting gay marriage may be based in “traditions,belives,religions and the word of God”, but those aren’t actual arguments for why it can’t or shouldn’t occur. They’re just reasons for why you find it distasteful.
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I LOVE THIS POST! there is nothing wrong at all with same sex marriage and all these people bullshitting about children growing up with same sex parents. My aunty was straight married a man and had children , got divorced and found a girl friend. Now i have never ever seen my aunty as happy as she is now and her children have never been closer to her since she became gay. It has no impact on there lives at all and trust me they are completely happy children. Nothing makes me more angry then this topic and people who are too busy caring about other peoples relationships rather then there own. ” gays” arent harming anyone
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The whole “There are more important things we need to focus on” one just baffles me. It’s akin to falsely imprisoning someone, then finding out that they are innocent and have every right in the world to walk free, but saying “We’d let you go, but we have so many other things to focus on right now. Maybe tomorrow when we’re less busy.” I mean, either you agree gay people have the legal right to marry, or you don’t, but if you do, then every day the aren’t granted that right because there are too many other things to worry about is a day when their rights are being violated. That’s not okay.
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Yes, yes, yes, yes! The “more important things” is probably one of the single worst arguments against same sex marriage. It is often the opinion of people not willing to pick a side of the debate, or who don’t care enough, who want to use to bash against a party or politician. It is the reason that almost infuriates me more than the bigoted, intolerant hate talk.
The fact is, most of us can multi-task, most of us can care about more than one thing at a time, most of us can have a range of more important and less important things going on in their lives and NOT IMPLODE.
The “more important things” argument is lazy, gutless and I totally judge any person who dares to use it.
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I know!!
If we can’t take action on legalising gay marriage because there are other things to focus on, then I guess that means we shouldn’t try to reduce famine, unemployment, violence against women, homelessness, or increase education, or prevent global warming. We can probably only choose one. Jeez, that’s a pity.
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its nothing but bullying !! in the worst possible manner and whats worse is people condone it no wonder young gay people kill themselves or try too…. look at this world what a mess no wonder they dont feel safe coming out these days due to discrimination !! ive been through it im fine now but back then 5 years ago i wasnt i felt dirty like i didnt belong its wrong !! get over it its not changing it never is gna and u idiots that say where gna wipe out the world your stupid just because there are gays and lesbaians doesnt mean everyone will become one its each to there own ! i cant wait for a world where kids can grow up happy and not worry if they fancy someone of the same sex think they have to feel diffrant its not right it should be as normal as hetrosexual couples it will happen so stop fighting it!! it will be such a happier world i dont understand u people have the right to eradecate a bullying issue so why wont you ?
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Marriage has varied from one era to the next. Same sex marriage is not a religious issue, it is a human right’s issue. Take into consideration Atheist get married. Marriage in the twenty first century holds such little religious value.
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Marriage isn’t a religious institution at all, irrespective of whether it is same sex.
People choose to conduct a religious ceremony as part of getting married, whereas others choose a civil ceremony in a garden with a celebrant.
Marriage is what you make of it and you celebrate it by whatever way best sits with your beliefs and ideals.
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I dont know about you guys. But I’m okay with same-sex marriage. It’s all about the love. Love conquers all right?
But I do have one question, has anyone ever thought about the children of these couples?
What will they think when it’s mother’s day or father’s day?
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There have been hundreds of studies that prove that same sex parents don’t affect a child’s development whatsoever. Divorce on the other hand…
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I would think both of their parents would be honoured on both days
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Just let people live there lives. Really you can’t change who you are. say like your a human you can’t change that. if your a girl you can’t change to a boy. Really i think this is a strong argument but i think we should let people just live their lives. I really like your reasons and it’s very strong thank you for sharing it with others
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This is such a childish thinking. No brains whatsoever.
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Thanks for putting this up again. I enjoy reading it each time. Great arguments, well written. Thanks.
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I wouldn’t blame gay people if they wanted the rights of ‘married’ people, but also wanted a different title for it. Us straight people have spent 30 years dragging the institution through the dirt – according to 2008 ABS figures, 33% of marriages would end in divorce, a 5% growth trend per 15 years. Given this would be the culmination of a 50 year stuggle, I think allowing them to get ‘married’ would see some respect restored to the institution – not further diminish it.
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I find it endlessly amusing with the people who are all, WHAT ABOUT THIS, and everyone else is just like, …please READ THE ARTICLE.
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I respect anyone who chooses to follow any faith and I believe that in this world you should have the right to follow any chosen faith without discrimination and without anyone telling you that you’re wrong. What I don’t agree with is you using your faith to tell me how to live my life and using it to dictate who I can and cannot enter into a marriage with. If religion were a valid argument than only the “right” religion would be able to marry however that’s not the case because that would be seen as discrimination, the same discrimination that I face on a daily basis. Finally I feel that everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless of whether I agree or not but your opinion should not determine how I’m allowed to live my life and who I commit myself to.
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I think the point that everyone is missing is that really:
Marriage is just betting half of everything you have that they’ll love you forever.
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People need to be happy to live life, everybody deserves to be happy. If you’re happy why can’t people that are attracted to the same sex not have the right to be happy themselves, people that are against this are selfish haters that only think about themselves not the greater world. this is change, change is good and needed without it we would still be CAVEMEN! We have all this new knowledge thanks to science, why not embrace it??
Think about your words and how you would feel if it was against you.
“Do unto others as you would have to you.”
make love not war.
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My big problem is that the issue of gay marriage has become such a big issue for religious people. I don’t see a religious outcry about anything else in this manner, not gossip, lying, divorce, anything.
Above all, god is about love. And he also said, whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do to me. And by denying equal rights to people based on what religious people are calling ‘sins’, aren’t we condemning people, which is a job for God, not man?
I know many ‘Christians’ who have married and remarried and remarried again. Where is the outcry against that? People need to stop making gay marriage a whipping boy.
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Nerrida, your idea of what there has been an “outcry” over is not really the truth. Yes, the issue of gay marriage has received a lot of attention, but that is because gay rights activists have been highly outspoken. The “religious outcry” about gay marriage is one that has received a lot of media attention, and that is why it appears the other issues you mentioned are not being spoken about.
The truth is on the contrary. All you have to do is enter a church on a Sunday and listen to a priest giving his homily. There is plenty of talk about gossip, lying, divorce etc. It is quite simply that these issues have been around for so long that the media has no interest in covering them, but gay marriage is a relatively new issue.
On your point about condemning people, is it not true that the actions of liars and divorcees are condemned as wrong? Why should any other immoral or act be tolerated?
And as for why homosexuality is immoral. Let me put it this way. If something is to be classed as moral, then if ALL people were to have the moral attribute, there would be no issue. If all people were to have an immoral attribute, such as a tendency to lie, steal or murder, then the world would be in chaos and human life could face extinction. My point is that if ALL people were immoral in some way, the world would be in chaos. This is true of homosexuality; if all people were to be homosexual then human life would face extinction after one generation. For something to be moral, there must be no consequence if all people were to share that moral attribute or quality.
If anyone can find some reasoning against this, please do, I would be interested to hear it. This is what I have said to many people and I am yet to find an adequate rebuttal. I’m not saying there isn’t one, I just haven’t heard one said.
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Your comment says that if people are homosexual, the human race would die out. The same is true if people were to decide to stop having kids – and there are plenty of people out there who decide kids aren’t for them. By the same logic, then, are you saying that because these people would ‘choose’ a lifestyle that would inevitably lead to the death of man, they are also immoral?
Because that’s sure what it sounds like. If everyone shared the belief that kids weren’t for them, the world would die out. And your logic says that’s immoral, but I never read anywhere that God condemns those who choose not to reproduce.
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You know what anonymous? The more I think about your argument the more vehemently I disagree. Your argument seems to rest on this idea that if the world could share a single attribute and not die out its okay. But that’s just wrong.
If all people shared the attribute of celibacy/singledom, the world would die out but that doesn’t make it immoral. Unless, you know, Jesus was immoral. Or Paul. Or Timothy. Or a whole mess of other people.
On the other hand, raping young girls would continue to populate the world, but you can’t argue that it’s moral in any way.
Your entire argument, that you claim nobody has been able to refute, is a fallacy.
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Even better, what if EVERYONE believed that anyone who didn’t share their particular belief was wrong and immoral. The WHOLE WOLRD would be immoral…. (metaphysically)
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I subscribe to some extent to your theory of morality as a starting point. However I don’t think it’s nearly as black and white as you see it, and the logic is deeply flawed. As mentioned by Nerrida, if people choose not to have children, this is surely not immoral? Furthermore, if everyone has multiple children (particularly as prescribed by traditional Catholicism), the earth will continue to become overpopulated. On the other hand, if everyone marries and is faithful to the person they love, the world will be a much happier place, and if people choose whether or not to have children hopefully it will even out to some extent.
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The unstated assumption in this debate (and in the above article) is that “marriage” is a positive social practice, when in fact marriage is an incredibly discriminatory and oppressive practice that should be abolished. The modern demand for the legalisation of same-sex marriage is an extremely conservative one. It is one in which those who are in the best position to recognise the injustice of marriage are, in effect, saying: “ok, we’ll stop pointing out how bad it is if you just let us participate in it.”
In fact, some conservatives who realise the seriousness of the threat to the status quo posed by marriage’s oppressive nature have argued that gay marriage should be legalised in order to strengthen marriage and further entrench its hold over society, while many queer theorists (eg Michael Warner) understand the danger of marriage being strengthened by gay marriage, and oppose legalisation (at least as an objective of political activism) on those grounds.
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As a heterosexual woman I have mixed feelings about marriage. The girly, traditional side of me likes the fairytale idea and the promise of love lasting a lifetime etc. The educated, independent side of me thinks why do I need to take part in such a ceremony to cement my relationship when I know marriage itself doesn’t pocess any powers to guarantee my relationship any better than if I didn’t.
but I’m all up for people to have the choice and weigh it up like I am
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Pingback: Gay Marriages Should Be Denied. - Page 4 - Political Forum
yeah, i can argue against that. your talking about unequal rights? what unequal rights? gay men have the same right to marry a woman, just like straight men do. gay women have the right to marry a man, just like straight woman do. no one has the right to marry the opposite sex. i dont see how theres an inequality of rights happening here? its just a case of gays being a bunch of ungrateful whiners, unthankful that theyre not being stoned and executed like they used to be. you cant have your cake and eat it too. defacto gave you all necessary rights as a couple, i dont see why youre trying to sabotage the only thing left sacred to hetrosexual couples? the fact is that marriage is a hetrosexual ideal, created by the church. before religion, did not exsist. the roots of marriage are religious and theres no denying that. there is no reason to allow gay marriage at all. they cannot procreate. why do you want it? so you can rub it in straight peoples faces that you wont be opressed anymore, and that youve once again got what you wanted?
nothing is so self righteous as gay marriage.
we have bigger problems in the world then pointless letting people get married when they are unable to procreate . they do no service to the world with their “bond”. the fact that they are treated with tolerance should be enough.
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The roots of marriage are economic. It was created to ensure inheritance.
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OK “Guest”, how exactly do couples who do not desire children or can in fact not have children figure in your incredibly twisted logic? If the only reason for marriage is in fact to procreate that is. I have never been to a wedding where the vows include “I promise to breed with you, and successfully carry every child to term”.
As for marriage being the only thing left “sacred” to heterosexual couples, how many marriages are torn apart every day by infidelity? Are those people treating it with the respect you believe it deserves? Or does the fact that they are not the same sex make that all null and void.
As for self-righteousness, perhaps you should take a glance back over your comment and re-evaluate what self-righteousness actually is. You harp on about how they should be grateful we “tolerate” them and they should be glad we are not “stoning them to death”. Is it hard, being so full of hate? I truly feel sorry for you, and hope that whatever has filled you with so much bile and contempt is sorted out. Because comments like yours make the world a darker place. I only hope the offspring you deem mandatory (and you’ve hopefully produced, because otherwise you too are worthless) don’t spew the same hateful message as their parent.
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You say marriage is a religious institution but it is not. Weddings and the ceremony created around these were put in place by the church. Marriages have been around for centuries (before Christ) and in the 5th century BCE the most revered marriages were between two men. In fact the term, when applied to inanimate objects has no relationship to religion
mar·riage [mar-ij]
noun
5. any close or intimate association or union: the marriage of words and music in a hit song. Synonyms: blend, merger, unity, oneness; alliance, confederation. Antonyms: separation, division, disunion, schism
As for being thankful we’re not being stoned, you could say black people should be thankful they’re not being killed by white people or christians should be thankful they’re not being thrown to the lions. Time moves on and so should we. You have your right to live your life and you have no right to tell me how to live mine.
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I would like to say that Rick Morton, in this article, has taken a demeaning and belittling tone towards anyone opposed to gay marriage. He has treated those people (yes, myself included) as unintelligent dolts, while creating a narrative voice that asserts his superiority for the sake of convincing the reader of his viewpoint. Honestly, this article is a mess. These 17 arguments do nothing to encompass the moral, ethical and logical reasons why gay marriage should not exist.
The article provides some arguments that a flawed, and that no reasonable person would believe, for example, “But if we let them marry, then they’ll have kids and we’ll end up with a gay society.” Not to mention that last “argument”. Of course these arguments are flawed, but that is why Rick Morton included them, is it not? And of course there will be ignorant people who do use such arguments. But if one were to believe Rick Morton’s article, any person who objects to gay marriage is a complete airhead, or disinterested, or purely religious. I hate to state the obvious, but that is not true.
I myself am a Christian, but that does not mean I blindly follow the Church, as many would believe most Christians do. I do believe that the Church has made the correct decision in this case. Of course, the Church is made of human beings, and the corruption that has been seen within the Church is saddening, yet part of human nature. Were the Church to suddenly say that homosexuality is acceptable (need I say this is extremely unlikely, bordering on impossible), I would still believe that gay marriage is wrong. Some Christians will act stupidly and ignorantly, being Christian does not make a person good. It is striving towards the ideals expressed in the faith.
I will not delve any deeper into the topic, but I will ask anyone who does read this article to see through the writer’s blatantly insulting tone and research the facts for themselves.
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But you haven’t showed me where I was wrong? This isn’t an article about YOUR belief because, thankfully, the Church doesn’t get to decide on marriage! The Government does. So, yeah, find me an argument and I’ll happily argue back
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You haven’t showed me where I was wrong either? I hate to throw your words back at you, but it’s true. Basically, my comment was saying your article provides nothing more than 17 ad hominem arguments that you easily refute.
In my earlier comment I didn’t mean to provide any arguments from my point of view about gay marriage because, like you said, it isn’t an article about my beliefs. I was commenting your beliefs expressed in your article and the way you presented them.
I will comment again tomorrow or in later days explaining my point of view since you ask. It’s late now, at 11:30 I should be sleeping.
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@ Gab:
“These 17 arguments do nothing to encompass the moral, ethical and logical reasons why gay marriage should not exist.”
Well, let’s hear your logical, rational, well though out, moral and ethical reasons. Because pretty much every bull**** argument I’ve ever heard AGAINST gay marriage was covered by Rick’s opinion piece. I’m yet to hear anyone speak calmly and rationally against gay marriage, who made me stop and think “Wait, that was actually quite a good point.”
Instead we get drongos like Barnaby Joyce crying out that gay marriage would take away the choice for his straight daughters to get married. Which is, you’ll note, one of Rick’s covered points.
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God created marriage – not the government. You can talk until you turn blue but that fact you can never change. Sure you’ll get what you want, but in the minds of the majority and in the eyes of God it will never be True Marriage . You may like to look up the true meaning of ‘natural order’ you have misunderstood what it truly means, like so many of your interpretations.
I could fisk your whole article, but why bother when you are willfully ignorant of the true arguments against ss marriage. My advice to you and all who read this is- don’t be mislead into accepting these arguments and read the real reasons against ss marriage by credible authors. And BTW if you think calling people who believe in true marriage homophobic or mean, please think again it only shows your fear of the truth. It’s quite simple .
And yes it will be made a law – didn’t you guys knows there are such things as bad laws??
Sad!
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I think to state what is and is not acceptable to God is very arrogant. None of us can ever hope to understand the will of God, Bible or no.
If God indeed created everything, which I totally believe He did, he also created the human brain. He had a hand in creating our talents, our passions, and yes I believe our sexuality.
Before you throw it back at me saying “Oh but in the Bible it says…” I am aware of what it says in the Bible. It says a man shall not lay with another man. A few verses later it says women shall not cook during the time of the month that they are “unclean”, nor shall their husband share a bed with them. Such an action will make them both unclean.
Why? Because it says these things in the book Leviticus, which is essentially an account of how to live a healthy, clean life. People have used to argument with me that back then no one understood what a period was, and we now know that it is not disgusting or disease ridden.
Well, these days we also know that sexuality is not a choice. It is how we are wired. How our brains connect up.
I think God has created an amazing, diverse, beautiful world full of different people. Jesus preached love; love despite sin, love despite differences, love over all things.
If two people love each other, we, in turn, should support that love, and celebrate its blossoming.
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“God created marriage” WTF??
Dude, if God created marriage there wouldn’t be a piece of legislation called the Marriage Act – it wouldn’t be needed.
Please stop saying ridiculous things. It does not assist your argument.
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Jay, humans made up “god”, so I don’t know how “he” created marriage.
Humans also created the Marriage Act – so they can change it too.
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So what exactly are these moral, ethical and logical reasons as to why gay marriage shouldn’t exist? If you’re talking about its legalisation weakening traditional family values etc, do we really want a society based on discriminative and intolerant “values”?
And honestly, “narrative voice”? Are you writing a year 9 english essay?
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Firstly Gab, I don’t see the truth in your argument that the church will never support gay marriage. Perhaps not explicitly, but the Anglican church has already accepted gay clergy, and over 50% of Christians believe that gay marriage should be allowed.
Secondly, I completely agree with Rick. You can’t say that the article doesn’t encompass the rational arguments out there and not provide examples. He’s done his best and has offered to address your concerns if such flawless arguments exist, which I tender they do not.
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@Gab. First things first, you remember how you said “I do believe that the Church has made the correct decision in this case”? The Church didn’t make the decision to ban same-sex marriage – our government did. This is a MULTICULTURAL nation of a indefinite number of beliefs and we need to endeavour to encompass all those beliefs. The two-parent family of the 1950s has given way to single parents, de facto, blended and same-sex couples. Society is continually changing and evolving. Our legislation, processes and attitudes, by necessity, need to change with it.
Secondly, all you have done in your initial post is to insult the author of this article who, I think, made some very convincing arguments. You provided no argument against same-sex marriage, despite you being ‘anti-gay’. I look forward to your reply.
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I am amazed at how many people disagree with your viewpoints. l do not follow any religion, I do not mind if people do or do not follow a religiion but there is no place for it in my life. Marriage is something that I value extremely highly and not just for the wedding either, I adore the idea of a marriage having grown up with a lovely example of a successful marriage from my parents.
I do not want my wedding in a church, I do not want my wedding performed by a person associated with any religion, there will be no reference to any religion during my wedding, and if I decide to start a family there will be no baptism, confirmation or any other religious procedures performed until the child is old enough to make that decision for themselves.
Marriage to me is a legal, economic, social or political ideal. It could be many more things but the one that it is most certainly not, for me, is religious.
With this in mind, why should a homosexual person be denied marriage and not me? I may not have children and I still would like to be married, does that make me a ‘sinner’ too? If you are not homophobic and respect that homosexuality is legal in Australia, why should a marriage between two people of the same sex in a non-religious setting without any religious grounds be any different from one of the same nature between two people of opposite sexes?
I agree with Rick – with the amount of s*** people give to people who are homosexual, why on earth would one choose to be gay? And if you to choose to be gay, why didn’t I choose to be straight? Why can one be hardwired to be heterosexual but not homosexual?
This is not a religous issue, it’s a human rights issue. If you that people of different races, religions, ages, sexes or disabilities should be treated equally, then you should support gay marriage.
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Holy old post! This only just blipped on my radar.
I really disagree that sexual attraction is hardwired. I think it’s socially prescribed. Boys are taught to like girls and vice versa. I remember when I first started having same-sex feelings and I was mortified with myself. I’d been conditioned into thinking that liking boys was the social norm, and liking girls was abnormal and not natural. I think humans have the capacity to swing both ways, and I don’t believe people are completely 100% gay or completely 100% heterosexual, but rather, we sit on different sides of the spectrum. I think this was originally Freud’s idea…
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Kinsey
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Rick , God made you a man. Even if you think you were ‘born that way’ you need to live a chaste life, like we all do. This means respecting the body that has been given to you. Our body is a temple. God delights in the proper use of our bodies as he has ordered it in nature. I say this to you out of sisterly love. There is so much more I’d like to say to you but the best thing for you to do is read about what God wants of you. He certainly wants the best for you, and certainly not something based on a lie about human will. His Will is what brings us true happiness, peace and love.
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