A scene from telemovie “The Slap”
by JACKIE GOLDSTON
As I stood on top of Mt Coolum, I was extremely proud of both my kids, my 3 year old daughter had just walked all the way to the top on her own and my 6 year had been wonderfully encouraging. As we always do, we ambled over to the far side of the top of the mountain to find a little shade and enjoy the view, a snack and water.
As we sat there my son pointed to a girl and asked “Why is she drawing on the rock?” I looked over and a young girl of 10 or 11 years old was carving her name into a large rock with a pocket knife.
Mt Coolum is a National Park. Obviously graffiti almost anywhere is illegal; however, this is a National Park! And here was a young girl, with a knife, carving her name into a rock… in front of her father and sister. And in front of my 3 year old and 6 year old and every other child and teenager that was on top of the mountain – and it was a beautiful Sunday and there were lots of people.
I looked at my husband and said “Sorry, I am going to have to say something.” I have been known to do this with smokers in restaurants around children; however this was my first “wildlife warrior” moment. I politely asked the girl if she would mind stopping carving into the rock as it was graffiti and was not permitted in a national park. She looked at her dad who told her, “It’s okay; there are lots of names already up here.” I explained that it wasn’t okay and it was ruining the environment for everyone. The father was extremely unimpressed with my interfering (which I had expected) and stopped his daughter, telling her that it looked good already. He huffed and puffed many things under his breath and moved away with his kids.
The graffiti
Our family packed up our rubbish and got ready to head back down. We had started across the top of the mountain to begin our decent when I decided to run back and take a photo of the graffiti.
To my shock, the dad was standing beside his daughter as she finished her name and date in the rock. This time I didn’t say anything – what could I say without really crossing the line. I went and took some photos of other carved names on top of the mountain, and there are a lot of them.
On the drive home we had a discussion our kids about graffiti and the impact on the environment. We talked about why some graffiti is art and other is not. I was a little bit upset with father’s reaction; however my husband reminded me that I had basically disciplined his child in front of him.
Sitting here writing this, I am still not sure what I would have done differently. Where do our kids learn about acceptable behaviour? I know I would be furious if a stranger corrected my parenting; however I felt that when we move into breaking the law and damaging the environment that it is time to say something. How do children learn about appropriate boundaries without parental direction?
Jackie Goldston is the editor of a regional Queensland kids magazine and social marketing consultant, former marketing manager for big pharma and fantastic charities. She is also mum to two wonderful children. You can read her blog; follow her on twitter or check out her website, here.
Would you have said something to the child or to the parents? Would you correct a stranger’s parenting?
Comments
119 Comments so far
You rock!!
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I had an interesting one the other day. Walking into the train station, I walked past a group of teenage girls with my two children, Miss 3 and baby boy. Two of the teenage girls were having a heated (bitchy) argument, very loud and verbal bordering on physical. My observant and brutally honest 3yo girl says (a little too loudly), “Mummy, she’s…. being mean to that girl!” I just replied, with only slightly lower volume, “Yes, they are being mean to each other, but they’re big girls, so it’s up to them to sort it out for themselves.” Otherwise, I’m sure my daughter would’ve launched into the middle of what was *nearly* a fist/nails/slap fight and tried to explain exactly who was being mean, and how!
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The one thing I noticed a little reading others posts, was that so many people seem to think that some rules are ‘for every one else’. I don’t know where I sit on the discipline other people’s children but am one to look a child in the eye and ask ‘ is that really your choice?’. Probably going to get in trouble one day but for know I stick with dirty looks for inappropriate behaviour and e afore mentioned comment when another child is bothering/ hurting my nieces and nephews.
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Actually I’m just remembering when I was at the receiving end of some pretty atrocious finger wagging from a woman, who even now 6 or 7 months later, is making me see red at the memory!
I was picking my son and his friend up from school (grade 2). The parking street is quite narrow and very busy as you’d imagine at pick up. Anyway, I was packing them in the car and a friend reminded me it was the deadline for the school council vote. I had the ballot in the car so turned to the boys and said stay put and ran back into the school to hand it in. All of five minutes, if that. As I walked back to the car, I saw my son had opened his door on the street side. I yelled at him to shut it just as a beast of a BMW 4WD came barrelling down the road. The woman in the car stopped and yelled at me ‘is that your son? You should make him be more careful! etc. She was really confronting and angry. ‘How about you not doing 60km/h in a tiny street near a school at 3:30?” I would have said back but, of course, she just yelled her piece and tore off. I was gobsmacked. Obviously I agree that what my 7 year old had done was dangerous, but she must have seen I was aware of what was happening (due to me running up to the car yelling) so I can only gather she is one of those nasty people whose only motive is to make others feel crap!
Not that I think the author is that kind of person although I don’t personally have a problem with the girl marking the rock (as I’ve expressed in a comment below)
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The only time I have done the “telling off” was when a 4 yr old boy pushed another little girl down the stairs at a playground. I assume because she wasn’t going fast enough up the stairs. My words were “mate, you shouldn’t shove her. She’s only little. Just wait your turn”. I had noticed earlier that the parents of the boy were sitting at the park bench. The boy cried to his mum that a “lady yelled at him”.
Anyway, I went over and explained. This boys mum then full on slapped her son on the back of the legs. It was really hard too. I was really shocked at her response and thought it quite extreme. I actually regretted getting involved then cause I felt terribly sorry for the little boy.
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That there are commenters on this topic who think that
a) when a child is vandalising public property is no-one else’s business but the parents’; and
b) that carving (words to the effect) “bogan trash wuz ‘ere” is comparable to indigenous art
vindicates the author’s concerns.
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While I think the other kid’s parents were irresponsible, I think the author needs to (politely) find something more interesting to do than worry about a rock in a national park. Our environment is filled with intersects between the natural and the man-made…it’s an ever-changing place and that’s ok. I understand it being a national park means there’s an assumed sanctity toward everything natural, but come on…it’s a rock? I actually love seeing names, love hearts, handprints, dates, etc carved into rocks and trees as I walk through the bush or along the beach. We are part of the environment, not separate from it. Someone poking a koala, hurting a snake or bird, or cutting down a tree would offend me greatly. A little kid’s name in a rock doesn’t.
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Illegal activity is illegal activity though. You can’t say “well that is only a little bit illegal because a young child is doing it”. I endorse what the author has done in this instance. I would even have gone so far as to report them.
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I think it is fine to correct a child’s behaviour. If the parent was there I’m not sure I would be quite as game, but a child on their own in the street or in a park…. yes if they are doing the wrong thing, tell them. It is the old saying… it takes a village to raise a child.
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I disagree that the author should have told the little girl off. Firstly, there is a better way to do it. Approach the dad about the subject, don’t discipline his daughter right in front of him. It may make the little girl feel very badly, when she is under the impression she is doing nothing wrong.
Secondly, IT’S A ROCK. It’s not a tree, it’s not going to die. It already has graffiti on it. Lighten up. Humans have been carving on rocks for thousands of years.
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I would tell other children off if they are breaking the
Law or harming someone. I see a lot of parents tell random children off for not using their manners etc and I wouldn’t do that. Although I don’t agree with the horrendous way some little kids speak or act its not my job to teach them te ways of the world in the playground. It just enables te actual parentl
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I strongly disagree. It’s everyone’s job, because that is how they will learn what is considered polite manners and what is expected in society, rather than just what Mum and Dad let them do. I have no problem making anyone repeat a request and add “Please” or “Thank you” when they don’t. It’s common manners, what is expected and therefore should be brought to attention when it is lacking.
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Just a tongue iin cheek thought…I wonder if all those years ago young aboriginal children/teens got busted by the oldies for drawing on rocks?
As ugly as it is, maybe those name carvings will say something in the future??
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I don’t think that rock aboriginal rock paintings were made by random kids. I think the only thing this says about our culture is that these people have little regard for their environment. They’re not saying anything significant, there’s no story, no cultural info, just their name. Can you imagine what it would be like if everywhere you went there were names carved?
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I agree with others here who see nothing particularly wrong with carvings on a rock and what is not culturally significant now may very well be in the future…what if that 10 year old becames a famous poet or goes on to cure cancer?
Which brings me to your supposition, Rebecca, that all indigenous carvings made long ago were made with utmost reverence..it’s not outside the realms of possibility that some of the ancient rock paintings were made but random kids. I certainly ain’t no anthropologist so just speculating!
Generally I think never say never with interfering in parenting though..
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Actually I never said that all aboriginal rock paintings were made with utmost reverence. I have done some aboriginal study and some are deemed more significant than others? But the overwhelming majority are places of cultural significance, They tell stories and pass down culture. They are not random scratchings on rock. Was this girl making a political statement? Telling a story? Passing down cultural knowledge and practices? Recording history? No it was just plain old graffiti, illegal, simple.
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So we should just let kids carve their name where ever they want because they might go on to cure cancer or become a famous poet? Is it ok for adults who have achieved nothing and unlikely to do so to carve their names?
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Rebecca I do get your point but I guess the point I was trying to make was that if some ancient rock paintings dating back thousands of years were revealed as an equivalent to the modern ‘I woz ere’ wouldn’t it be just as culturally significant? Didn’t they uncover some 1000 year old porn in Europe? The significance comes with these markings being ancient. You might say, well it tells us something, it tells a story. What I’m trying to say is that over time this rock and it’s names will tell a story too.
And just for the record, I certainly don’t endorse graffiti for graffiti’s sake. Love street art but hate tags and desecrating. By the look of the rock in the photo, it looks like it’s covered in carved names. I don’t see anything wrong with it. Who knows how many years some of those names date back…
I
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At a beach last summer we walked past a sign reading ‘Dunes under repair, please keep off’. Right next to the sign was a dad relaxing on a towel and directly behind the sign were three kids sliding down the dunes on little boards.
Unfortunately I’m not one to speak up in public, but luckily my 2-year-old asked what the kids were doing, which enabled me to explain in a slightly louder than normal voice that they were doing something bad.
The dad ignored me, but shortly after the mum yelled from their boat anchored on the beach for the dad to stop the kids’ behaviour.
It infuriates me when people don’t follow rules that are there for a reason. Thank god we have warriors out there who aren’t afraid of speaking up. Some sound advice on the specific approach though!
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I was in my workplace when I witnessed a parent allowing his children to do something really ‘dumb’ one day. I didn’t say anything, but started filming what the kids were doing, as well as the parent who sat there.
I filmed what was happening because I did not want this man to say that we or our organisation were responsible for what his kids were up to.
Within two minutes of my beginning to film, he had stopped the kids’ behaviour and left. He knew they were doing the wrong thing.
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What were the kids doing? Was it a colleague of yours, a customer, a client?
..I’m curious..
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i understand what you were trying to do, but just need to point out it is actually illegal to film/photograph children without their parent’s permission…
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I am an Australian living overseas and one thing that I don’t miss is getting ‘told off’ by random people!
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haha! amen to that!
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I think you did the right thing, Jackie. One thing I won’t hold back on is nature and animals. If your kid is ruining something or teasing/upsetting an animal, you bet I’ll say something.
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My comments are disappearing again. I’ve posted twice, in reply to amyfizzer below, and they just haven’t shown up.
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Funny mine too…way to go mama mia….
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you can say what you like, just as she can do what she likes. as long, I suppose, you are willing live with the outcome.
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If there is some inexcusable behaviour taking place (something illegal is definitely inexcusable) and a parent is there, I generally say something to them first rather than their child. It’s quite possible they’ve not noticed and have a bit of “baby brain”, or are too tired to remember to tell their kids off. I get it, parenting is a hard job, and I try not to judge or assume.
But it can be awful if a parent doesn’t react well to your words, so I do think twice about saying anything when I’ve my child with me; depending on the circumstances, I may just move us away and possibly try to alert someone else.
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I felt the same way when I saw adults feeding biscuits to wallabies at Wineglass Bay in Tasmania, metres from the sign that said NOT to feed the wildlife. I didn’t say anything but in hindsight I wish I did! Especially when not long afterwards, we saw the same wallaby heaving in the trees. I don’t think biscuits are a part of their diet… Perhaps the question should also be whether or not you should discipline other adults!
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Also in Tassie, I was camping and I saw some adults (maybe in their 50′s) feeding bread to wallabies. I went up and asked them to stop and explained why it was bad for the wallabies diet. They told me to f*** off and mind my own buisness. I calmly said “I am a zoologist (true)so this is actually my buisness.” Then they just turned away and slammed the door of their winnebago.
You can’t win them all
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“Evil prospers when good men do nothing. ”
John Philpot Curran
Bravo to those who are strong enough to do something when others look away. If something really annoys me then I will say something, cruelty to animals, the defenceless in society. The defacing of a rock would annoy me but not enough to risk a fight with a father whose kid had a knife. I pick my battles.
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Great point. Also, I have an 11 year old girl and I bet that she would know better than to etch her name into a rock in a national park. I wouldnt need to tell her not to. Not to mention that she wouldnt have a knife on her in the first place.
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I’m sure this situation is exactly what John Philpot Curran had in mind when he wrote those words.
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I think it’s perfectly fine to tell people to stop committing crimes, even if they are relatively victimless ones like graffiti, but it’s all about attitude, really. The key is not to get confrontational right off the bat, but rather to be pleasant and polite (until you have a reason to behave otherwise).
I have been known to tell people off for smoking on public transport, and in my volunteer work i occasionally have to tell kids not to do something their parents have said is okay, like touching things clearly marked ‘Do Not Touch’. In those cases, I have a uniform to back me up, but it gets a little more difficult when it just a matter of opinion, as in the example above (okay, I know it was against the law, but I hardly think even the most hardline person would make a citizen’s arrest and escort the young girl to a wildlife officer in the face of her father’s encouragement to her act, and his likely opposition to your citizen’s arrest).
I would definitely have said something to the little girl, and would have followed up the second time too. I correct parenting if it’s dangerous, as politely as I can (for instance, when I saw a mum jaywalking, who was checking to see if the road was clear to cross by pushing her pram, baby inside, onto the road as she leaned forward. I told her to use the crossing or get her baby killed).
It’s also important to be open to the possibility that you’ve misinterpreted what is going on. Then, you’ll be thankful that you were polite, and you can just smile, and apologise, and wish them a good day.
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I was at the zoo with my family when a 40+ year old lady started to feed the Meerkats, I could stop myself telling her it was wrong and may make them sick, when a group of young adults joined the game feeding the meerkats m&ms. I again told them it was wrong and could harm the meerkats and as they ignored me I left to find a zoo worker to stop them. There are rules for a reason, idiots!
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I think that people like you should be thanked. It is not easy to take a stand – especially in a society that judges people who stand up for things or for themselves more harshly than the people doing the wrong thing – but it makes a difference. Thank-you. You are preserving something special that we can all share and I appreciate what you did.
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Good on you. I had a similar thing happen recently. The mum was too busy on her iphone, while her child caused havoc in the playgroud. I asked her child to stop what he was doing, and when he didnt i approached his mother. She was annoyed and commented that she was “sorry that her child wasnt perfect like mine”. I responded “Its not about your child being perfect, its about you keeping check on what he is up too and taking action if needed.” On the other side of the fence, I’ve had mums come up to me to advise my child has pushed or done something to upset their child. I am embarassed, but not offended, and always acknowledge the behaviour and make my child apologise. At the end of the day many parents are too lazy or too pre-occupied …often with their iphones…to keep an eye out for their kids. It doesnt mean hovering over them, but stay aware and then others won’t have to step in for you.
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Its parents with that attiitude that I’m guessing make life very difficult for teachers! There was a time when the parents were always on the teachers side when the child was in trouble. Now I’m sure its often a case of parent and child against the teacher.
The physically present, mentally absent parents at the park is one of the reasons I stopped going with my kids. It was too stressful having to watch out for their kids running wild bashing the other kids up while they updated facebook that they were ‘at the park with their kids’…
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Jackie should have kept her comment to herself and mind her own business. You see, parents are the first to complain when NON parents LECTURE OR address their children about behaviour in public.
Jackie shouldn’t be casting stones and get all self righteous about it.
Let kids be kids, live and learn. Yes she may have been defacing something but lets look at it this way… if for example aboriginal people didn’t express their art on walls and rocks via carvings and paintings – we wouldnt know about their culture what we do today.
Next time stop being a sticky beak and mind your own business.
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Yes I’m sure in 100′s of years, anthropologists are going to say “look at this here rock. Tebb was ‘ere in ’01. Interesting, insightful even. We must write about it in every history book”.
Or not. What the Aboriginal people did was tell stories, write about their life in the only way they knew how; through pictures. What this brat was doing was defacing something in a self-absorbed way.
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I agree Amy. How completely absurd to compare this with aboriginal history. We have other ways to record our culture and history and not defacing the environment can also help to preserve some of the aboriginal art. It might not be an issue there, but it is in other places.
I am also slightly concerned that she was in a public place with a pocket knife. That in itself is also dangerous.
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So I guess you don’t mind if someone puts thir cultural imprint on your fence or wall. Theses may be just rocks but they were not her property. It’s a national park and belongs to the public.. Write and carve on your own walls.
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If my child always doing the wrong thing I embrace the sticky beaks tell then to stop it I’m ok with that. If I’m there yes I would prefer a parent come directly to me in saying that I wouldn’t stand by and allow my child to do something so disrespectful.
It’s not aboriginal art it tells no story except maybe a story of disrespect. They may be rocks but that national park is for every one and if we allow people to deface it with graffiti it will be a disgusting place no one will want to go. We are all responsible for looking after our community and protecting our parks and reserves.
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I haven’t carved my name into anything, IT IS WRONG!! The father was allowing his child to do something illegal! I would have addressed them both: Excuse me this is a national park and defacing the landscape is actually illegal. If you do not stop I will take a photo of the damage. and your car’s number plate and report you.
Why is carving your name into a tree or rock any better than defacing someone’s actual property? So if my child decided to “leave his mark” in you car’s paint it would be ok? What about on your handbag? House front door? Seriously, why should we look the other way if her dad is unaware of the law, or worse doesn’t care?
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I don’t see this as a parenting issue. Whether she was 11 or 21, she was defacing a public resource. Jackie has every right to say something to her. She wasn’t mean, she wasn’t judgmental, she just pointed out that the girl was doing something she shouldn’t.
Jackie is a tax payer and a member of our community. Laws are put in place to protect us and our property. I think we all have a right to remind others of the law because we have a right to feel safe and a right to enjoy public spaces.
It is not interfering to point out illegal activity. I’m sad that more people don’t consider our national parks to be beautiful public spaces that should be respected.
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I agree. it is actually defacing something which we are all responsible for and which belongs to us all..
Often people will back off when you point out what they are doing is illegal which this activity is ..at least in NSW not sure about QLD.
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My first thought was that she was ruining the pocket knife by using it to carve in the rock!
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My first thought was what on earth is a child doing with a pocket knife!
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I probably would have done the passive aggressive thing – put my kids nearby and talked about how we need to preserve the environment. When they inevitably asked about the kid defacing the rock I would have explained how it’s naughty and that kids need to learn what is naughty and what is acceptable.
Cowardly, I know, but I’d be a bit concerned about confronting someone I didn’t know.
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Ha, I’m pretty sure I would go the passive aggressive route as well.
In fact, my kids would probably be scandalized at the graffiti and ask me if it’s wrong. Then we would have a nice loud self-righteous discussion next to the family about how and why it’s wrong. And act all innocent if they said anything. In my mind, it’s better to get your message through to the child in a way that doesn’t invite their parent to just dismiss what you’re saying.
I think it’s better to avoid confrontation if possible. If you overtly criticise someone’s parenting they are just going to get defensive. Plus, I get a perverse pleasure out of messing with the minds of selfish adults like that.
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I always thought that I wouldn’t be the kind of parent that did that kind of thing. My mother did it all the time when I was younger and I used to cringe with embarrassment. But a few weeks ago I was in the supermarket with my 4.5 month old in the pram, trapped in the checkout queue behind the guy who was currently being served and a mother with a boy of about 9. This child proceeded to swing on the confectionary racks, open chocolates and generally cause mayhem, which his mother ignored and I did too – not my place.
He then shoved past me and proceeded to attempt to force feed my baby a plastic dinosaur, pull his hair, poke him etc. several times I asked him politely to leave the baby alone and was ignored. I couldn’t get to my baby because of the trolley in front of me. Then he pinched my baby and all hell broke loose. I gave him a right royal dressing down about invading personal space and the inappropriateness of pinching, poking etc at the top of my voice in front of everyone and demanded an apology. His mother stood there, rolled her eyes and told him to wait outside because clearly he was upsetting ‘the baby’s mother!’
I was furious and could suddenly see where my mother was coming from all those years ago.
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Did he apologise? Did he’s mother apologise? I am so sorry you had to experience that, as a non parent I often cringe at kids but don’t say anything. In that case I would not have been able to help myself. You poor thing.
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Wow, I think you held back, what a revolting family! I seriously dont understand what planet some parents come from. She probably the sort of mum who excuses her sons antisocial behaviour by the old ‘boys will be boys’…or blames the teacher for ‘not liking my son’…
Good on you.
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I wanted to add that this will be the parent in 5 or 6 years complaining to anyone who will listen that her child is uncontrollable & it is not her fault!
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Really? I don’t understand the need to say anything, I climb Mount Coolum regularly and if some little girl carves her name into the rock so be it. It’s not affecting you in any way other than causing you frustration, yep you told your kids it is wrong to graffiti but it could have been a lesson taught without involving yourself, and making yourself more mad by the lack of acknowledgement, most likely caused by the embrassment of the father who was put on the spot but your commenting.
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I would like to be able to enjoy the wonderful environments of our national parks without it being ruined by inconsiderate, disrespectful people causing permanent damage to the very things which make them so amazing, so I would imagine it very much affects nearly all of us personally. This isn’t the side of a school desk or a picnic table we’re talking about. Not to mention that unless more parents teach their kids respect for these places, we’ll end up with none left.
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We’ve had the front wall of our house spray painted, probably by the same sort of vandals who hit their teenage years and having never been taught right from wrong think its just a bit of fun.
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Actually quite agree. The girl was not damaging the environment in any way. I agree with the fathers reaction. I would never allow my children to hurt or even bother another person or animal, another’s property, or harm the environment. But it was a rock. We have lots of them. I have many personal moral views, and teach them to my children, but would never impart them on others. Can’t see that it’s illegal, so if it’s a personal moral view keep it for yourself. How is it different to tell someone they shouldn’t use contraception as you are a catholic? Society needs to be better than this to operate. On the other hand, the girl whose baby was being tormented has the right to say something- but in my belief- only to stop the danger to her child- not to discipline someone else’s child. Let’s get angry about the important stuff and where we might have some influence.
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But she was damaging someone else’s property. She was carving her name into a rock. Not a little one that can be replaced but a big rock that is there for generations. It is illegal to deface public property. Can you imagine if everywhere you went people had carved their names into public property. Ugh
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Good on you Jackie! So many parents let their children vandalise, bully, and disregard the feelings of others because they too are super rude individuals. Us polite people need take a stand. I’ve never told a child off in front of their parents because I don’t want to get a slap, but when I see children misbehaving and their parents aren’t supervising I always pull them up on bad behaviour, but it is just an instinct, not planned. Just the other day I had to tell a child off for hitting the glass in the lizard enclosure at the zoo. Dudley Dursley anyone? Such a mean thing for a child to do to the poor lizard! He could have given the poor thing a real scare
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Another vote for well done!
I did exactly the same thing at Wellington Point in Brisbane a few weeks ago, when I boy climbed a beautiful tree (can’t remember the species, but people who have been down to the park there would know what it is…), and started carving something into the branches.
I did not realise at the time, but his mother was sitting on a seat right near me when I yelled out to him to stop and get down.
So was my wife, my 3 children, my wife’s parents, my children and two visitors from Japan.
The boy got down when I asked him the second time, and when he did he and his mum slunk away… (if that’s a word)
Generally speaking, people should have more respect for the environment, each other and other people’s property.
From my perspective this behaviour also teaches your children to stand up for what is right, and to have respect for the above…
You did the right thing, and good on you – more people should!
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If I felt it was necessary I’d probably speak to the parent first because disciplining his child might embarrass him enough to make him aggressive.
I’d definitely step in if someone’s safety was compromised.
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I would have pretended I was a journalist, whipped out my camera and my voice recorder app on my mobile phone and started interviewing the father about the appropriatness (sp?) of grafitting in a National Park.
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Good on you! I would like to think I would have said something, but I’m probably too chicken.
I don’t think this was really interfering with a father’s parenting. I would be just as likely to say something to a child doing something ILLEGAL as to an adult. Commenting on the child simply holding a knife would be interfering, but when this is used to do something illegal (however “minor” the offence) stepping in is not a parenting issue.
And to everyone who commented saying that it wasn’t affecting Jackie, I disagree. Our National Parks belong to all of us, and this type of damage does affect my enjoyment of the area. Cleaning it up/managing this uses public money, so I think everyone has a right to be upset. Even if the father in this case didn’t change his behaviour, you never know, he may think twice next time and so may his daughter.
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I would never attempt to discipline a strangers child because i wouldn’t want someone to do that to me. Plain and simple.
I think the more appropriate action in this situation would have been to bypass the child and go straight to the adult and voice your concerns. Something along the lines of “Sorry i don’t mean to be rude or anything but it is against the law to do that” and gesture towards the child.
If the father chooses not to do anything than you have done your part. If it was an illegal act then surely you could have reported the matter to someone.
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I totally agree.
It’d be infuriating having some random woman come up and tell your child what to do.
It is the parents job to discipline the child. She should have gone to the parent, politely.
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But the very fact that the father said nothing shows that, as a parent, he has no idea. Takes a village and all that. Thats why kids are becoming increasingly disrespectful, because the village is too scared to speak up when the parents are too weak, lazy or ignorant to realise their kids are doing the wrong thing and stop them.
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It would be annoying to have someone tell your own child off and could have put the father on the defence. If the author had approached the father first, he may not have been as defensive.
I’m not saying this is the case but it is a possibility.
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Possibly.
But my guess is the type of parent who lets their 11yo walk around with a pocket knife (wtf) isnt the type of parent who would like anyone saying anything negative about their kids or their behaviour. Dad probably had a gun
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I think this is the approach I’d take if I was going to say something. I don’t know that I’d feel comfortable disciplining someone else’s child unless he/she was hurting themselves/someone else.
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I think the fact that people don’t speak up more is how we have so many irresponsible, inconsiderate douchebags roaming around that ruin things for everybody else. If we don’t hold each other accountable for our actions who will? Lets face it, authority figures are rarely in the right place at the right time to catch people and often don’t have the time to deal with the smaller issues.
Obviously if you don’t feel confident enough to speak up or would feel threatened in doing so then I wouldn’t expect people to but I personally have no problem speaking up. I saw some young teenage girls running around in the shopping centre and nearly knock an elderly woman over. I told them off. A fall can be enough to kill people when they get older.
This also leads to a bigger issue for me. You know those horrible news stories when you ask yourself “Why didn’t anybody say anything? Why didn’t anybody stop? Why didn’t anybody help?”. I think it is because these instances seem harmless enough at the time and people feel that it isn’t their business to say anything. I have this thing in my head where I tell myself “Don’t be one of those people. Those people that didn’t say anything, that didn’t stop, that didn’t help.” I have had many occassions now where I have seen something that was seemingly innocous but just didn’t seem to sit right with me. I have made myself say some or do something about it and I have been so glad I did. It has led me to rescuing animals on more than one occassion and stopping a kid from accidently strangling themself with a rope. The list goes on. There are worse things in life than confronting people in my mind.
As for this instance I would not have a problem with somebody saying anything. Graffitti is illegal and it ruins the place for everybody else. Just because it has been done before does that make it right? No. I don’t walk in my national park to see “Deedee Waz ‘ERE 98″. If I wanted to see that I could just go read the back of a toilet door.
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Bravo!
And these are the type of families who are turning our schools increasingly into juvenile delinquent centres. And why teachers are taking stress leave and quitting. Because the parents think their child doing wrong thing here and there doesnt matter or cant be bothered stopping their child from breaking the rules. Everybody else does it so its ok. Or they think its funny or cute.
No its not ok, its not funny and its really not cute.
And I think you did the right thing. Its probably the first time that child has been told anything other than how wonderful and clever they are.
Kids need to hear NO.
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Completely the right thing! To the people saying otherwise, when my son is older shall I bring him to your house and let him write his name on it?
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I carved my name in a rock in the national park (I think it was one then) in 1976. I was 7. Still go back to see it. If it was damaging some historic rock art I’d have said something, but just a rock, nope!
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A rock is something historic. The environmental is older than anything man made. It could be of Arborignal significance, of early European significance. The point is graffiti is wrong. You are in the majority who think its ok.
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But then Aboriginal Rock Art could also be seen as graffiti!
In a thousand years the name carvings may also be seen as historical!
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Indigenous rock art tells a strory and is part of the culture. I cringe to think carving a name into a rock is being compared with it.
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I was at the check-out one day looking across at a trolley with a baby in the baby seat, and a pre-schooler who was rocking the trolley so that at one point it lifted on one side. The mother was paying for the groceries and didn’t realise what was happening, so I went over and put my hand on the side of the trolley to keep it on the floor.
The mother looked up and I explained what I had seen, to which she replied “They are fine!” and looked very unimpressed that I had intervened, so I backed off.
I have seen a trolley tip over, luckily with no baby in the trolley, but the pre-schooler got the shock of his life when the shopping ended up all over the floor. For me, I could NOT just stand there and watch this happen – it is literally like breathing, completely involuntary, that I would step in and quietly try to stop an accident.
All I got was a rude look though! Who cares… I just care that the kids are safe.
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Good on you! My kids have unfortunately tipped a trolley once (my 12mth old was in the seat and 4yr old standing). I only looked away for a second and that was all it took. I felt terrible!! The looks I got while I was consolling my screaming children made me feel even worse
I would have thanked anyone that stepped in to stop that happening.
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I would probably not have challenged them myself as I’m not fond of confrontation (always seems to get me into strife) but I would have taken the opportunity to give my own children a lesson in respect of property rather loudly and in hearing distance ;o)
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In this case, the real discipline had to start with the parent to understand that, although there are a lot of other people who broke the park regulations in this case, that in itself did not make it okay for him (via his daughter) to also break the regulations… you can’t teach something to a child if their parents are enforcing the same attitudes and behaviour. You are basically hitting your head again a (graffitied) rock.
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Good on you! Totally agree, when I was in England it was so sad to see all the names carved into the walls of St Paul’s Cathedral, if I saw someone writing their name when I was there I most certainly would have said something, its just so disrespectful!
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I wouldn’t have said anything personally, but I think good on you for saying something. Often I see something that other parents do and I’m horrified but I do believe it’s not my place to say/do anything. I just quietly judge them in my head. An example of this is my brother-in-law and his wife just had a baby which in my opinion they do crazy things with, such as sleep it face down on a soft pillow for all his naps, give him a bottle of water instead of giving him a feed of milk, and I know they smoke around him (but not when I’m around, because I would have to say something about smoking around a newborn). I do believe though that it’s their journey to make and that’s why I won’t say anything. If I see that someone’s in danger of injuring themselves or my children I will say something, but I think that’s the only circumstance where I would.
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I wouldn’t have said anything, I wouldn’t have been impressed but at the same time, it wasn’t really your place.
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In this case I wouldn’t have said anything – I care about the environment but, just as I wouldn’t chastise people in the car park for using their car instead of walking the short distance to the local shop, I don’t think it wad appropriate to interfere in this one. I think we need to be very careful disciplining other children (unless someone is getting hurt or at risk of getting hurt) – I think that sometimes people discipline someone else’s child when what they really want to do is discipline the parent. And if that is the case, isn’t it better to talk to the adult directly rather than through the child? That would have been the better option here I think – the parent was right there, if you feel so strongly about it, talk to the parent about your views and why you think they are valid, don’t use disciplining their child to get a point across.
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No, I wouldn’t have said anything.
In teaching our kids not to be dibber dobbers, we’ve said that if somebody is being hurt then they should tell somebody or try to stop it straight away. However if nobody is being hurt, it is up to the person who made the rule to enforce the rule – so I would think it alright if a ranger told her not to do that.
Plus inscribing your name on things is just a rite of passage … other people had done it there already, so she wasn’t defacing a pristine bit of wilderness. If I was in the Dad’s position I would have told her to ignore the lady and keep going as well, sorry Jackie!
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It’s actually against the law.
I’m amazed anyone thinks this is ok. If the kid was tagging a rock in a national park with spray paint I doubt anyone would think that’s ok, but at least it can be washed off.
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I don’t agree with every law that exists, anonymous, and that’s why I wouldn’t have said anything in this instance.
To me, spraypaint is different because a) it’s uglier b) you can destroy a lot more space in a lot less time
Plus, because those carvings stay there for so long they become part of history.
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That’s the thing, you don’t get to decide which laws you agree with. It doesn’t work that way.
Imagine the scenario
Police: why were you doing 130 klms/hr down the highway in a 110klms/hr zone?
You: I don’t really agree with that particular law.
Say something or not, but it’s still illegal.
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Obviously I am aware of the fact that breaking a law has a consequence. I am not a sociopath.
But I am not about to intrude on someone else’s parenting to become the arbiter of a law I don’t believe in.
There is a school of thought which says that laws have absolutely no force or moral standing unless they are just, and that determination of whether they are just or not is made by the people who must abide by them. The problem is that when they make a law, they don’t ask everybody what they think … they just make them.
It’s pretty obvious that just being “A LAW” doesn’t give something moral force, a case in point would be the brutal laws of some fundamentalist Islamic countries.
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In this instance I would of weighed up the possibility that the father may of had a knife or something too, especially since he was cool with his daughter using a knife to deface the rock. I would of not said anything to her especially as the father was there too.
Having said that though, I have had a confrontation with a woman who had a little baby, around 3 months of age, in a trolley. The baby had to hang onto its Mother’s hand so it didn’t fall sideways in the seat. I saw the baby slobbering on her hand and she/he must of been teething and bit her finger. This woman slapped the baby across the face and screamed “don’t do that”. I saw red and yelled at her that you don’t hit babies under any circumstance. She told me that that was her kid, not mine and to back off. people were looking at us. I just said louder, “I don’t care if that’s not my baby, don’t hit babies, slapping a baby across the face is against the law, so don’t do it”. She just walked off, but I was shaking, from the adrenaline, that I had to sit down. But I’m glad I said something and I definitely would do the same thing again.
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Good on you pennypacker! I’ve only recently found the courage to say something to people like this too … it feels good.
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I can’t stand seeing kids being hit, and I usually bite my tongue, but slapping a baby was crossing the line for me. My heart was pounding, but it did feel good.
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Oh my god! I definitely would have said something to her! That is appalling!
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My dad recently saw a kid get walloped in kmart for asking his dad for a (cheap) pair of shoes. That is ALL the kid did, ask his dad, ‘can I have this pair of shoes?”
My dad had to walk away cos he felt if he confronted the man he would have ended up hitting the man himself and he knew that was not constructive to this argument of not hitting children.
A friend of his though did go up to another man in a shopping centre after he hit his child and challenged him to pick on him instead, being the same size as him, not on a small child. There was no fight, but apparently the man left very quickly after that.
In the instance of this post, I would have said something to the father, not the child, but I wouldn’t have pushed the issue. You can only say something to make them aware, you can’t make them change their behaviour.
Just because there are other names on there already doesn’t make it ok to keep adding to it. Would he allow his child to scratch their name onto the wooden seat at the bus stop, or add their name to a graffitied wall in broad daylight? What makes this rock any different?
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I don’t say anything to other people’s kids unless their behaviour is directly impacting me or someone I’m with, or if they’re putting themselves in danger.
So in this case, I wouldn’t have said anything.
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Being an ex family day care, i find it quite easy to say something if I find a child doing something that needs attention. I think its all in the delivery if you have to say something to anothers child always say it with a smile, never directly have a go at them, more their behaviour and give them something else that they could do instead. All parents will naturally go into protective mode if you have a go at their child, so never focus on the child rather than the action.
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